November 15, 2018

"Was I really outraged by SNL? Really offended? Or did I just think the comment about losing my eye was offensive?"

"There is a difference, after all. I have been literally shot at before, and I wasn’t outraged. Why start now? So I didn’t demand an apology and I didn’t call for anyone to be fired. That doesn’t mean the 'war . . . or whatever' line was acceptable, but I didn’t have to fan the flames of outrage, either.... How, then, do we live together in this world of differing ideas? For starters, let’s agree that the ideas are fair game. If you think my idea is awful, you should say as much. But there is a difference between attacking an idea and attacking the person behind that idea. Labeling someone as an '-ist' who believes in an '-ism' because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology. It’s also generally a good indication that the attacker doesn’t have a solid argument and needs a way to end debate before it has even begun.... When all else fails, try asking for forgiveness, or granting it. On Saturday, Pete Davidson and SNL made amends. I had some fun. Everyone generally agreed that a veteran’s wounds aren’t fair game for comedy. Maybe now we should all try to work toward restoring civility to public debate."

From "SNL mocked my appearance. Here’s why I didn’t demand an apology" by Dan Crenshaw (WaPo).

This might be the first example I've found of a call to civility that I'm not going to immediately categorize as civility bullshit.

111 comments:

Chanie said...

Dan Crenshaw 2020

AustinRoth said...

Hmm. What makes this case different? Oh, yeah. A moral, upstanding Republican.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Mr. Dan is a class act.

Prediction: SNL will continue to be the comedy show for the Democrat party. #No civility.

Sebastian said...

"the first example I've found of a call to civility that I'm not going to immediately categorize as civility bullshit"

Instead it's an example of civility naïveté.

Progs aren't interested in a world of different ideas, they don't engage in "playground-style name-calling." Civility is beside the point. The point is to win. They beat a tactical retreat in this case. Won't slow'm down--particularly as they are faced by well-meaning but clueless opponents.

Leland said...

That is my Representative, and I'm proud to have voted for him.

tim in vermont said...

They mocked the injury Bob Dole got from fighting actual Nazis. It's all gaslighting from them. Nothing honest comes from them, a shame because the best comedy is deeply honest.

rhhardin said...

It's like a humblebrag. Just do whatever it is and shut up, is a good rule.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

My wife heard a replay of his SNL performance on the radio, and commented that he will be our first one-eyed president.

rhhardin said...

War wounds are not excluded from comedy. That they are is another PC idea.

Laurel and Hardy had a long bit on it.

rhhardin said...

In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

rhhardin said...

Failing-to-forgive shaming is next.

hawkeyedjb said...

How can anyone of sense stand to wallow in the sewer that is the "comments" section of any WaPo article? It's a horror, and shows the ugly reality of how your betters think of you.

rhhardin said...

Comparing an awful-throwing quarterback to having Bob Dole's arm is always good.

CJinPA said...

Top two popular comments at the link:

The passively partisan....

Hopefully, Dan Crenshaw is a sign of good things to come for the Republican Party. Hopefully, lawmakers will once again reach across the aisle and work together. Good Luck, Dan.

The droolingly partisan....

It is not. Crenshaw should know that building up good will as a vet and a victim of an SNL gag gone wrong is not enough for us to look the other way as he destroys Social Security, Medicare, and the ACA. Read his website.

A call to 'not act so damn offended all the time' is different from a call for "civility."
We could actually stigmatize the recreationally offended and improve speech for everyone in various forums. Civility bullshit is bullshit because it's really just for politicians.

Dave Begley said...

Meet Senator Dan Crenshaw.

I want to see Beto run against him, but he won't. Looking forward to meeting Beto in CB.

Fernandistein said...

“What do we want?”

“HEARING AIDS!”

“When do we want them?”

“HEARING AIDS!”

Fernandistein said...

My girlfriend broke up with me because I stole her wheelchair.

But I knew she’d come crawling back to me.

Henry said...

My wife heard a replay of his SNL performance on the radio, and commented that he will be our first one-eyed president.

Washington was our first no-teeth president.

n.n said...

destroys Social Security, Medicare, and the ACA

SS has fixed outlays and is stable. It is a viable public smoothing function, and a reasonable backstop for dynamic private smoothing functions. The problems are Medicare, Medicaid, and ACA that enable, obfuscate, and share progressive costs without a commensurate return.

traditionalguy said...

Crenshaw is trying the "good, honest, decent man" ploy. Now it is the Dem's Slander-Media's turn. Or will they just assassinate men's bodies now that the assassinating of their characters has been stalemated?

AJ Lynch said...

So you are now an apologist [heh] for ever using the civility bullshit tag?

Hunter said...

To say "Regardless of how you choose to act, I will not engage in outrage theater and will remain civil toward you" isn't just not civility bullshit, it's the opposite. It is leading by example without making demands. Civility-bullshitters make demands on everyone else and refuse to set the example.

n.n said...

SNL hoisted by their own petard. Now, that is funny.

It's a call to judge content, not color. He's the pro-character, pro-individual, anti-diversitist candidate. Positive progress.

That said, a little emotional appeal can be good, a lot in the appropriate context, but we are not kids anymore.

RigelDog said...

It's not civility bull because Crenshaw demonstrated true grace. This is what it looks like.

Fernandistein said...

Washington was our first no-teeth president.

He was also the first white male heterosexual President.

I wonder why Crenshaw attracts attention with an eye patch rather than using a fake eye.

Robert Cook said...

"Hmm. What makes this case different? Oh, yeah. A moral, upstanding Republican."

Yes. Moral, upstanding Republicans are rare birds.

Bob Boyd said...

rhhardin said...
"In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

Awesome.

The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...

"Yes. Moral, upstanding Republicans are rare birds.

Whereas moral, upstanding Democrats are an extinct species.

Robert Cook said...

"Hmm. What makes this case different? Oh, yeah. A moral, upstanding Republican."

Maybe he doesn't want the bother. I work with a woman with one prosthetic eye, and that "eye" occasionally exudes fluid discharge that she must wipe away with tissues.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

OT: If we had real journalism in this country, the democrat party would implode.

Candice Owens does real journalism.

ndspinelli said...

Our first President w/ one eye?

Pookie Number 2 said...

There’s only one “I” in George Washington.

rhhardin said...

There wasn't anything to be offended by in the first place.

William said...

The eye patch gives him that most interesting man in the world look. I suppose the look would be studied and pretentious on someone who lost an eye in a car acccident, but he lost his eye in combat. That cool guy look is not an affectation. He really is a cool guy.

Bob said...

Classy guy.

chuck said...

Crenshaw sounds like a smart guy and a grownup. That's refreshing.

Hari said...

When was the last time you saw someone act outraged who was capable of killing the person who offended him with his bare hands?

tommyesq said...

Am I the only one who thought the SNL line was actually pretty funny, and also implicitly recognized, and self-mocked, the offensiveness it contained?

Chris N said...

Leading by example is always admirable. I hope he can keep it up in the trenches, so to speak.

Many elements of politics are, in themselves, corrupting.

Personally, living around many ‘-Ists’ and ‘-Isms’ I’m not above calling them such in private while observing behavior and trying to explain and mock how it plays out in public (as well as the small publicity of a blog). Humor and satire are fair game.

Living around people whose ideas, for the most part, you don’t share, and whose members often seem poorly equipped to deal with a range of human emotions, human nature and truth about the world is a bit like living around a cult.

In my experience, should you stand publicly up to any of the truth and knowledge claims, or policy and political costs members of the group impose because you disagree with any one of them, watch out.



Kevin said...

They mocked the injury Bob Dole got from fighting actual Nazis.

They mocked John McCain for not sending e-mail when his war injuries prevented him from using a keyboard.

But hey, when Trump says something about McCain being captured the media suddenly becomes outraged.

Bill Peschel said...

"Labeling someone as an '-ist' who believes in an '-ism' because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology. It’s also generally a good indication that the attacker doesn’t have a solid argument and needs a way to end debate before it has even begun."

Even if someone thinks this is civility BS, this is a great summation of an argument against leftists who want to divide us to destroy us.

Henry said...

Even if someone thinks this is civility BS, this is a great summation of an argument against leftists who want to divide us to destroy us.

leftISTS with their leftISM

Kevin said...

"Labeling someone as an '-ist' who believes in an '-ism' because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology."

No, this...is CNN.

gilbar said...

"I wonder why Crenshaw attracts attention with an eye patch rather than using a fake eye."

Assuming that he has an eyelid (and that there is not further damage to the area); it could be that he just knows it makes him look like the star in a porno movie

I worked with a guy with a glass eye; it was disconcerting to talk to him, as the glass eye didn't track. I wore a patch for 3 months recovering from my head injuries after my motorcycle accident. Patches make you look Cool... Patches ARE Cool...
They're also terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.

Tari said...

It's not civility bull because Crenshaw demonstrated true grace. This is what it looks like.

Yes, RigelDog! People that don't know grace (or think they need it), miss this.

Henry said...

I hate cant and scapegoating. I try to avoid "ism" and "ist" not just out of civility bullshit, but for two other reasons: 1) they encourage sloppy thinking; 2) they are loaded with meaning for people who I don't necessarily agree with.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

I wonder why Crenshaw attracts attention with an eye patch rather than using a fake eye.

to appeal to the younger crowd-- it's an iPatch

@Fernandestien -- luv those!!

tcrosse said...

"I wonder why Crenshaw attracts attention with an eye patch rather than using a fake eye."

The prosthetic eye is not always inconspicuous, as Peter Falk and Sammy Davis, Jr. demonstrated.

Andrew said...

I talked with a man once who had an eye that wandered around without stopping, while the other eye was normal and looked straight at me. It was the hardest thing in the world not to stare at the bad eye.

Concerning the mocking of war wounds, Monty Python did it best (the dirty fork sketch).

https://youtu.be/Z9VLwV48OHs

FIDO said...

Odin there didn't get wisdom with his eye.

Of COURSE we all know how to get along with people who have different ideas.

The problem is is that one side constantly refuses to act tolerantly. So we are in a cultural war where one side has U.N. mandates about the use of force and the other side is using the Taliban mandates of use of force.

He is giving them grace and the benefit of the doubt for nothing.

Peter Plassmann said...

"tommyesq said...
Am I the only one who thought the SNL line was actually pretty funny, and also implicitly recognized, and self-mocked, the offensiveness it contained?"

Absolutely correct. The original comment was Davidson self-mocking his own ignorance and stupidity. It was a joke about Millenials and how clueless they are.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

i bet he wears Hathaway shirts

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

did we do 'it's all fun and games til someone loses an eye' yet?

glenn said...

Wait until Mr Crenshaw runs for the Senate or is Veep candidate and becomes the baby killing literally Hitler.

Tommy Duncan said...

When someone has actually "defended to the death" an American's right to free speech they act like Dan Crenshaw.

Others act like Jim Acosta.

Roost on the Moon said...

Am I the only one who thought the SNL line was actually pretty funny, and also implicitly recognized, and self-mocked, the offensiveness it contained?

Well said! I thought the "war or whatever" line was brilliant.

What percentage of Americans can name the countries we're at war with. Wait, not with. In? Whatever.

The first political satire with any teeth I've seen in a long time. And nonpartisan at that.

A lot of people worried about "free speech in the age of that's not funny" are showing their true colors. Don't you dare joke about young people being apathetic toward our permanent wars. Free speech is for things like discussing the biological inferiority of certain kinds of people, not questioning the power and aims of the state.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Why an eyepatch.....Assuming that he has an eyelid (and that there is not further damage to the area); it could be that he just knows it makes him look like the star in a porno movie

This. He could have some very significant and horrific damage to the eye socket.

Instead of plastic surgery to fix it, which might be impossible, painful and ineffective....just go with the eye patch.

Years ago (in the 1970's) I had a female friend who had lost an eye when she was a small child in the 1950's She wore an eye patch. The way she dealt with the situation was actually quite "cool". She

She had her everyday patch (the pirate look). Daily she might wear some to match her dress up outfits for work. Color coordinated and very tasteful. Plus few very fancy ones with sequins, satin, lame....etc. for when we went out clubbing, dancing. She wore the eye patches like expensive fashion accessories.

It was interesting to see which ones she would be wearing.

AllenS said...

All of you people can rant and rave and love about the eye patch, but I'm going to cut off one of my ears, and start painting.

Howard said...

Blogger tcrosse said...

"I wonder why Crenshaw attracts attention with an eye patch rather than using a fake eye."

The prosthetic eye is not always inconspicuous, as Peter Falk and Sammy Davis, Jr. demonstrated.


They were going for the Marty Feldman look which was quite popular back in the day.

Drago said...

The leftists (Ha Henry!) & their LLR allies will have no issue turning Crenshaw into 1-eyed "literally Hitler" and inevitably a murderous war criminal 15 minutes after he declares for higher office.

Hell, all it will take for LLR Chuck to attack him is the "hi-sign" from Dickie Durbin.

Howard said...

Salute the man, not the patch

Ralph L said...

At my age, my grandmother had an eye removed (too late) because of melanoma. We have one photo of her with a patch from the last 5 years of her life. Her SIL wore an eye patch from a car accident & stroke. I had 2 retinal tears 2 years ago, but they patched them with 1,000 zaps of 2 lasers.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I think giving people the label of being affected by Trump Derangement Syndrome is civilty bullshit.

Ralph L said...

the SNL line was actually pretty funny, and also implicitly recognized, and self-mocked, the offensiveness it contained

It works if Davidson plays the offensive total bonehead regularly, and the blue hair and silly smile certainly help, but for the unfamiliar audience, he should have gone even further over the top and had the anchor make a disclaimer.

Roy Jacobsen said...

What Dan Crenshaw has behind his eye patch: https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2018/11/05/such-a-badss-what-dan-crenshaws-got-hidden-behind-that-eye-patch-is-cool-as-hell-pic/

PM said...

If you lose an eye in combat or otherwise, it's your business how you want to attend to the loss.

Fernandistein said...

What Dan Crenshaw has behind his eye patch:

So he can wear a fake eye OK and the whole thing is for show, like I guessed.

He's quite a politician.

Francisco D said...

I think giving people the label of being affected by Trump Derangement Syndrome is civilty bullshit.

Inga has long since lost her mind and doesn't know where to find it.

Is there a patch for that?

Skippy Tisdale said...

"Maybe now we should all try to work toward restoring civility to public debate."

I do not believe this should have been given the Civility Bullshit tag as his statement is directed at everyone.

Bay Area Guy said...

I really liked this! The old SNL raised its head from the swamp of leftism to briefly make fun of itself and provide some laughter and levity.

Crenshaw is a stud. I hope he goes far.

Henry said...

Interesting to see the paragraph Althouse emited:

Similarly, people too often attack not just an idea but also the supposed intent behind an idea. That raises the emotional level of the debate and might seem like it strengthens the attacker’s side, but it’s a terrible way to make a point. Assuming the worst about your opponents’ intentions has the effect of demonizing their ideas, removing the need for sound counter-reasoning and fact-based argument. That’s not a good environment for the exchange of ideas.

Attacks on intent and motivation is a pretty fundamental barrier to any kind of rational discussion.

Ralph L said...

He's quite a politician.

He learned from Trump's hair. The first time I saw just his head and thought he looked pretty soft and doughy for a SEAL. Then I saw the rest of him and realized he just has a round head.

For that matter, why are the patches usually black?

alanc709 said...

Bob Dole throws like a girl...... oh wait, that was Obama

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Inga should read that. She won't. she's too busy stewing her in Trumpist hatred and Hillary lost butthurtism.

Skippy Tisdale said...

"Washington was our first no-teeth president."

And Obama was our second.

Lovernios said...

"When someone has actually "defended to the death" an American's right to free speech they act like Dan Crenshaw."

Please don't take this the wrong way; I admire Crenshaw's courage under fire, and his grace under political fire, but the Taliban are not a threat to free speech. They are a threat in many ways to Americans and American interests. However, it is some of our "fellow" Americans who are a threat to free speech. And you know who they are.

(I'm looking at you Democrats!)

Earnest Prole said...

The Althouse theorem is that it’s always bullshit. You easily could have tested the always portion of the theorem by proposing some tough hypotheticals — you know, the kind of thing smart law professors can do in their sleep when they’re trying to get their young students to think.

Paul Mac said...

SNL did just give his political career a huge boost, mostly because he was very smart about handling it this way.

All that brutal training is intended to do just this, strip away the BS and let them put the mission first, even when it would be easy to do otherwise.

The thing with civility isn't that it would be good, it is that you have to be willing to implement Postel's law. Take the higher ground and hold and expand it not just return fire twice as hard, even when you'd be justified in doing so.

Can't wait to see him as TX Gov, Sen, or whatever comes next for him. He is going to do a great job in the House, if I were his colleague I'd consider him for a very visible position right away. Not control what he says, just let his character continue to show through.

Paul J said...

In the realm of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

This mode of civility embiggens even the smallest of men.

Or something.

tcrosse said...

Now he needs a parrot.

steve uhr said...

In the comments per usual the typical response is to demonize your opponent. Personal attacks are the norm. As Hitchens said--

"I had become too accustomed to the pseudo-Left new style, whereby if your opponent thought he had identified your lowest possible motive, he was quite certain that he had isolated the only real one. This vulgar method, which is now the norm and the standard in much non-Left journalism as well, is designed to have the effect of making any noisy moron into a master analyst."

AllenS said...

Obama was your first Cash for Clunkers president. He'll never rise above that.

Dr Weevil said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dr Weevil said...

Hugo Chavez ruined the parrot-on-the-shoulder look for politicians.

GatorNavy said...

Why does Dan Crenshaw wear the patch? One acronym: DARPA!

Iowan2 said...

Don’t fool yourself. Crenshaw is a younger version of Justice Kavanaugh.

Crenshaw is just one nomination from president Trump away from being a pedophile that eats his victims.

I heard the JoMika praise McSally for her concession. A great example of the proper way Republicans should lose. Not a word about the Georgia governor race. All praise the leftist double standards.

Achilles said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
I think giving people the label of being affected by Trump Derangement Syndrome is civilty bullshit.


Inga is right. It has nothing to do with Trump.

The left has been calling everyone who disagrees with them racists and Nazi's for decades.

She and her friends said Scalise deserved to get shot because he was a member of the NRA, not because he was in the same party as Trump.

Ken B said...

Cookie says honest, upstanding Republicans are rare. If we are talking politicians, then that is true. There is one thing rarer though. Can Cookie guess?

Ken B said...

That would be funny HENRY except that most leftists I know EMBRACE the term.

Achilles said...

A SEAL, a Ranger, and a PJ walked into a bar...

And the SEAL wrote a book about it.

Sorry.

Achilles said...

One thing he will have going for him as a former Navy SEAL.

His hair will always look very good.

Though it seems he cut it short since he got out.

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...
"Hmm. What makes this case different? Oh, yeah. A moral, upstanding Republican."

Yes. Moral, upstanding Republicans are rare birds.

True amongst the political class.




Jeremy Abrams said...

You can call it civility bullshit after your three tours of duty.

Geoff Matthews said...

Dan Crenshaw for president.

mikeski said...

I'm sure he had the classy response mostly pre-written. He just had to patch it up a bit after the show aired.

I mean, it's SNL. Anyone could have seen this coming.

Nobody would have been blindsided by it.

Jim at said...

It simply reveals Dan Crenshaw is a far, far better man than the leftist assholes on SNL.

Bad Lieutenant said...

I'm sure that in his life Dan Crenshaw has eaten greater offenses than that for breakfast. The problem is not Crenshaw being offended. The problem is that somebody else could open their mouth and let words like that go out of it. It's shocking to see how people will lower themselves.

And of course, everyone who has sustained such terrible injury does not therefore necessarily have the inner steel of a former SEAL.

It might have been interesting for Davidson to make a similar joke about one of the first-responders on 9/11. I daresay that would have cut deep. Considering that his father was one.

Kevin said...

She and her friends said Scalise deserved to get shot

I distinctly remember her not supporting the shooting of Scalise.

I have no information on her friends.

Kevin said...

The issue is that when Dems go shooting people there isn't an outcry over gun violence because that keeps the story in the news.

It's more of a "let's move on" thing, so we can wait for a more politically-appropriate shooter to demand an end to the second amendment.

Kevin said...

It might have been interesting for Davidson to make a similar joke about one of the first-responders on 9/11.

Would it have even occurred to him?

ALP said...

SNL joke fails to upset an ex Navy Seal. Jesus, I should hope not otherwise our military is in worse shape than I thought. In the article, he says (I paraphrase) "After all I was literally shot at and I wasn't offended - why start now?"

LOVE IT.

Achilles said...

Kevin said...
She and her friends said Scalise deserved to get shot

I distinctly remember her not supporting the shooting of Scalise.

I have no information on her friends.


She didn't "support" it.

She just said he deserved it.

Huge difference I am sure.

Earnest Prole said...

It might have been interesting for Davidson to make a similar joke about one of the first-responders on 9/11. I daresay that would have cut deep. Considering that his father was one.

At the Justin Bieber Roast, Davidson told Snoop Dogg that watching his movie Soul Plane "was the worst experience of my life involving a plane.”

Earnest Prole said...

For those who may not know, Davidson's dad was FDNY and died on 9/11.

Henry said...

Ken B said...
That would be funny HENRY except that most leftists I know EMBRACE the term.

None of my friends are leftists. They're all radicals.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Inga is right. It has nothing to do with Trump.

The left has been calling everyone who disagrees with them racists and Nazi's for decades.

She and her friends said Scalise deserved to get shot because he was a member of the NRA, not because he was in the same party as Trump.”

Are you insane? Go and find where and when I ever said that me and my friends think Scalise deserved to get shot, for any reason whatsoever. I don’t know why you constantly repeat this “NRA” lie. Why do you feel the need to lie? Or do you truly believe I said this? You need help. You’ve been calling the left “Stalinists”, what makes you any different than the leftists you rant about?

Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga...Allie Oop said...

I believe that one day we here at Althouse will hear Achilles name plastered all over the news after he commits some act of domestic terrorism. Mark my words.

tommyesq said...

"At the Justin Bieber Roast, Davidson told Snoop Dogg that watching his movie Soul Plane 'was the worst experience of my life involving a plane.'”

That is some serious commitment to his art, and also (in my probably horribly inappropriate sense) also pretty damned funny.

Unknown said...

I didn't find the joke offensive, it's comedy, but I was irritated by it becuase here is an incredibly brave, accomplished and capable man who risked and sacrificed a lot for the rest of us, and he's being ridiculed by someone who is clearly a pathetic little dweeb who would never do anything similar for anyone. You can just see that. It's like the assholes who called Vietnam vets "baby killers", etc. I didn't feel offended, just irritated. Davidson seemed really stupid, and maybe that's the act, but my script says I get to punch him in the mouth, and that seems appropriate. It's just my feels.

mikee said...

A veteran's wounds aren't fair game for comedy?
To hell with that, and to hell with John Kerry.
Kerry deserves to be ridiculed for his wounds, which he parlayed into a presidential run after abusing them to both get out of Vietnam service and to aid and comfort the enemy by lying about his fellow soldiers. He still has the hat from Cambodia, and he threw someone else's medals over the White House fence in protest. He deserves ridicule, and more.