July 22, 2018

"While I am not prepared to defend bouts of 'She-Ra doesn’t give me boners anymore' extremism..."

"... I can see the kernels of the argument that sexuality shouldn’t be in diametric opposition to capability. There’s no reason female characters can’t be glamorous and sexy and also battle-ready, smart, and compassionate. It’s not unlike the ongoing debate about Wonder Woman’s appearance and whether her revealing uniform ultimately undermines her feminism. I’d argue that the most important thing about women superheroes in skimpy clothes is agency — what matters is that their costumes aren’t designed primarily for the sake of someone else’s erotic thrill."

From "The Fight Over She-Ra's Netflix Redesign, Explained/Some men are mad she isn’t sexier," by Alex Abad-Santos.

Cartoons are complicated!

Here's the old and the new She-Ra to help you understand:



I had to look up Tom Holland:



Apparently, he's Spider-Man these days. I think of Spider-Man as being that other guy, what's-his-name. Anyway, is Spider-Man's costume not in "diametric opposition to capability"? There's so much suspension of disbelief in the watching of superheroes, something I've just about never done — I've seen a few of the "Batman" movies — but a huge proportion of the world's population seems to love to do. What is the role of the costumes? It's nothing like If that was my work, that's what I'd wear to get my work done. I'm not even sure the extent to which the costume itself is magic. Does Superman fly because of the cape or is the cape kind of like those ribbons people attach to house fans to add drama to the wind flow?

But I do love this scene in "Batman Returns" where we see Catwoman (Michelle Pfeiffer) putting together her costume for the first time:

68 comments:

Paco Wové said...

Comic books. Fucking comic books.

Is there anything in modern American culture that isn't infantile shit?

buwaya said...

The decline of testosterone levels among teenage comics fans is evident.

jpg said...

She should have gotten an academy award nomination. So wounded. Great performance.

Fernandinande said...

Xe-Ra.

chickelit said...

The new She-ra looks like the original Jonny Quest. Why does everything devolve back to adolescent boys? What’s the underlying sickness?

Darrell said...

What about people of color?
We need to see stories written by people of color, directed by people of color, starring people of color.

White people suck.

buwaya said...

I thought that was the best Batman flick ever.

Pfeiffer does crazy very well.

And its telling that they write Catwoman such as her first act as a demented vengeful woman is to make herself a new outfit. How female is that?

buwaya said...

The underlying sickness may be in the sort of person that buys comic books.

Back in the old days it was (mostly) normal boys.

These days it probably isn't.

Gahrie said...

What is the role of the costumes?

To hide their identity. The capes are decorative.

what matters is that their costumes aren’t designed primarily for the sake of someone else’s erotic thrill.

Superheroes and comic books were designed and marketed for adolescent boys. Of course the female costumes were designed to be erotic.

A perfect example is the Marvel character of Rogue. In her first appearance in Avengers Annual #10 she appears as a villain, and looks like a dowdy grandmother. When they decided to feature the character she became a young attractive young lady in a tight fitting costume.


Darrell said...

Kids want to see LGBTTQQIAAP storylines and characters. Only.

Paul Sand said...

Tom Holland is a pretty good Spider-Man. Of the recent actors, he's probably the best at delivering funny lines. Here's one at which I laughed out loud.

Gahrie said...

I think of Spider-Man as being that other guy, what's-his-name.

You're probably thinking of Toby Maguire. He was the first of the "modern" Spiderman actors. He was followed by Andrew Garfield. Tom Holland is the current Spiderman and most think the most accurate to the comic books.

Gahrie said...

Anyway, is Spider-Man's costume not in "diametric opposition to capability"?

Not the current one. The current Spiderman's costume was designed by Tony Stark and has all kinds of innate capabilities, not the least being an AI to advise and help him use the suit.

chuck said...

She-ra is a boy? Who knew.

Gahrie said...

Eartha Kitt is the one true Catwoman.

rhhardin said...

what matters is that their costumes aren’t designed primarily for the sake of someone else’s erotic thrill.

It's not an erotic thrill. It just attracts a look for an inventory, like for any woman.

gilbar said...

hello! one word: Julie Newmar

William said...

You can only look like an awkward teenager for a few years. Tom Holland was pretty good, but he's getting a little long in the tooth. One more movie, and he's out......I don't follow comic books, but I see most of the superhero movies. From what I understand, bondage and eroticism were part of Wonder Woman's original purpose at inception. I wish they'd leave her costume alone. The original Amazons were bare breasted. That's something to consider for the next movie, although the part about mono-mastectomies would be hard to square with modern concepts of feminism. But bare breasts would definitely be liberating and a truly empowering feminist statement.

Saint Croix said...

I’d argue that the most important thing about women superheroes in skimpy clothes is agency — what matters is that their costumes aren’t designed primarily for the sake of someone else’s erotic thrill.

At least 90% of women's fashion is for the sake of someone else's erotic thrill. That's why women wear high heels. Women who are super-heroes do not wear high heels. Although frankly it would be kind of awesome if a woman super-hero had grenades in her high heels, and she would just flip off her high heel grenade and blow up bad guys. I would buy that ticket.

Saint Croix said...

It's fantasy, okay? The whole thing is a fantasy. So what's irritating is this idea that a sex fantasy is evil or wrong or needs to be policed.

Batman and his universe, which includes that hot bad girl Catwoman who had sex with Bruce Wayne multiple times, hello, does not need your feminist police force to suck all the sex out of the universe. Good Lord, man. Feminism is embarrassing and so anti-breeding that the only way they make new feminists is by indoctrinating the soft minds of the easily trained.

tim in vermont said...

Obviously “she” looks like a boy because the feminine form is sexist.

n.n said...

Some women could be dressed in a potato sack and still appear sexy. #NoEnvy

As for superheroines dressed in skimpy clothes, it's the same reason why Robin Hood wears tights: freedom of motion.

The new She-Ra looks like Tom Holland

A shout-out to the physically transgendered?

Feminine females as second class humans. You've come a long way, baby. There is precedent.

Xmas said...

You may think the old She-Ra was a bit too sexy, but almost every Male character in the He-Man universe looks like a roided out gym rat. Even Skeletor, and he is supposed to be living skeleton.

rcocean said...

The whole point of having female cartoon superheros is to bring in some sex.

The new She-ra looks like a boy.

Which always reminds me of my favorite Ava Garner quote on the Farrow Sinatra marriage:

"I always knew Frank would end up in bed with a boy"

langford peel said...

SJW liberals ruin everything that they touch. Do you know that they are going to put a lesbian Bat Girl on TV this year? That Supergirl is going to have a trans-gendered superhero?

There is a big controversy over how DC and Marvel have destroyed their fan base by forcing multiculturalism and political correct nonsense into comic books that are written for 14 year old boys who only want to fantaize about big tits and smashing things. That is what comics are for and they are trying to destroy it

If you want to read an old fashioned normal comic check out what Vox Day is doing. His newest line of comics are pretty cool. Check out Rebel. She is my favorite.

tim in vermont said...

You may think the old She-Ra was a bit too sexy, but almost every Male character in the He-Man universe looks like a roided out gym rat. Even Skeletor, and he is supposed to be living skeleton.

Yeah, and what is that giant hammer Thor carries around all about?

Ray - SoCal said...

Langford Peele you’re right.

Amazing what dc and marvel are doing to destroy comics.

Falling units sold, as they go more sjw and virtue signaling.

Interesting the guy that got fired by Disney for done old tweets...

whitney said...

She's hideous

Churchy LaFemme: said...

Actually, it is Bat Woman who is a lesbian (and has been established for years; it's nothing new). Bat Girl is still Barbara Gordon, and is straight. And I think the 'L' part of LBSERISAQG is actually pretty popular with teen boys. Same for the "bi" characters like Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn..

The current Spider-Man is definitely the best one. The most recent movie had a really classic scene where he opens a door, and the absolute worst thing in the world for him is on the other side. You didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Seal Of Lion said...

The new version just looks like it was down in 5 minutes with help from a computer. The old one, probably hand drawn, has style and quality.

rehajm said...

No capes!

tim in vermont said...

The current Spider-Man is definitely the best one. The most recent movie had a really classic scene where he opens a door, and the absolute worst thing in the world for him is on the other side. You didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Was it a pigeon?

langford peel said...

At a recent sales meeting several comic book store owners revolted at Marvels destruction of their businesses. This resulted from forcing multicultural phony heroes like a female Thor or a Chinky Hulk. They shouted and argued but the SJW in charge didn't give a shit. They are abandoning their core audience for a"new" woke fan base that does not exist. These are the guys on the front line who are seeing their businesses die because of political correctness.

This is analogous to what is going on in the NFL. Both football and comics have a certain residual audience that is there because of habit but it is rapidly falling away. The success of the Marvel Universe movies are masking this. What they don't acknowledge is that these movies are based on the original story lines first devised by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Not one Muslim Captain Marvel among them. Once they start incorporating the new style heroes they will be making as much money as your basic Rob Reiner movie.

Get Woke Go Broke.



Howard said...

Ferdenandsteinmeisterbock wears Xe-Ra Specs

Christopher said...

Deliberately making female characters ugly as some sort of feminist statement is not a new occurrence but it has been increasing in recent years as publishers (mainly Marvel) are thrashing about desperately trying to find a new audience.

They are convinced that there's this vast untapped market out there and for some reason they think this will bring them in. Meanwhile the original fans don't like it and are attacked when they speak out which just drives them away.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"SpiderPerson"?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

William,

although the part about mono-mastectomies would be hard to square with modern concepts of feminism.

Oh, I don't know. Waaaay back (late 70s/early 80s), George Will (yep, that one) wrote a column beginning with the case of a woman who had one breast removed because it interfered with her golf swing. Then as now, Will was serious: His take on this wasn't "Isn't she loopy?," but "Was the doctor performing medicine?" If you know Will, especially from around that time, you probably know where he goes next.

Christopher said...

"Actually, it is Bat Woman who is a lesbian (and has been established for years; it's nothing new). Bat Girl is still Barbara Gordon, and is straight. And I think the 'L' part of LBSERISAQG is actually pretty popular with teen boys. Same for the "bi" characters like Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn.."


Batwoman was originally straight when she was first introduced pre-crisis, the current version is gay because Greg Rucka has a lesbian fetish and DC was eager from some guaranteed headlines (seriously you knew she was gay before you even knew her name). The character herself is pretty much a non-entity despite DC's best efforts. Incidentally the reason she looks the way she does is that Batwoman was supposed to be a healed up Barbara Gordon when the design was created.

As for the "Bi" characters, a general rule of thumb is that every female character will eventually be written as bi-sexual because it allows for school boy fantasies from the readers and lets the writers pretend to be social activists.

William said...

I wonder if Spider-Man's splooge has some of the tensile strength as that other stuff he shoots out of his hands. My study of astrophysiology leads me to believe it does. I'd like to see a movie where the crime fighting abilities of his splooge are emphasized. Too many teenage boys are ashamed and embarassed by all that splooge they produce......I guess it would be difficult to incorporate this in such a way as to allow the movie to keep a PG rating, but it would be beneficial for boys to regard splooge in a more positive light. Given Wonder Wman's predilection for bondage situations, I can see a scenario where Spider-Man uses his splooge to restrain the evil twin of Wonder Woman in her attempts to kill her sister and take over Wankerkanda.

William said...

Also, at least during the summer months, maybe Bateman could wear cargo shorts and a loose fitting t-shirt. I wouldn't want to be jumping around and doing karate moves in a latex outfit on a hot summer night. You can't fight crime after you pass out from a heat stroke.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

You like Huey Lewis and the News?

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Christopher said...

Batwoman was originally straight when she was first introduced pre-crisis...

Batwoman was originally, irony of ironies, introduced in the 1950's as a romantic interest for Batman after Frederic Wertham decided that Batman was a gay pedophile because he lived in a mansion with male teenage ward and butler.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

"...with his male teenage ward..."

There was also a Batgirl character (Batwoman's niece) who was introduced as a romantic interest for Robin, as well.

FleetUSA said...

To see another side of Michelle watch The Fabulous Baker Boys. Her "Makin' Whoppee" on the piano is hot too.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

is the cape kind of like those ribbons people attach to house fans to add drama to the wind flow?

Yes.

Jupiter said...

Looks to me like She-Ra has crossed the hot/crazy line in the wrong direction. At warp speed. As in, I wouldn't fuck her with your dick.

langford peel said...

Here is a good article about the effect of social justice warriors on the comic book industry.

They are working to destroy it as they are working to destroy anything that straight white males might enjoy.

langford peel said...

Here is a link to that Alt*Hero website where you can get information about the new line of conservative comics by Vox Day, Chuck Dixon and several other well know comic book writers and illustrators who were blacklisted by the social justice warriors at Marvel and DC.

I believe the first issues are available on Amazon and are selling particularly well for a new venture.

The Godfather said...

The purpose of Batman's costume is to scare the bad guys. I thought everyone knew that.

The reason for Superman's costume is to preserve his secret identity. If he flew around in Clark Kent's double-breasted suit, even dim bulb Lois Lane would recognize him (even if he didn't wear the glasses).

My favorite line about superhero costumes was in one of the The Avenger movies (I don't remember which one). Thor and Loki get into a fight on a military cargo plane, and they jump out on the cargo bay tens of thousands of feet up, still fighting. Captain America prepares to go after them, and someone says, You better leave those guys alone; they're essentially gods. To which Cap replies, There's only one God, and he doesn't dress like that. That's what we need more of, Baptist comic book heroes, not SSJWs (super social justice warriors).

Henry said...

If you link through and look at some of the other She-Ra stills it's clear that she's been redrawn as a totally charming 11-year-old. But for the anime hairdo, She looks like she stepped right out of a Beverly Cleary book.

The bike shorts, I dunno. As a costume, I think the average 11-year-old girl would look askance. If you want an updated She-Ra costume for today's girls, just put her in leggings. Everyone wears leggings.

I certainly don't get grown men having loud opinions about the way a superheroine is drawn for a kids show. Do any of these guys have 11-year-old daughters?

Jay Vogt said...

I'm sorry, was there something else other than Michelle Pfeiffer in this thread? On this blog? On the internet?

Henry said...

I don't like the Pfeiffer scene as much now as I did when I saw it. There are too many Tim Burton movies under the bridge since then. He directed Pfeiffer in the exact mannerisms he directed Helena Bonham Carter in other movies. Dye Pfeiffer's hair dark in that scene and she would be indistinguishable from Bonham Carter.

Jay Vogt said...

Henry said, "Dye Pfeiffer's hair dark in that scene and she would be indistinguishable from Bonham Carter."

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Aussie Pundit said...

The costumes are a relic from a different culture, still prevalent when comics first came into being. The readers of the early comics didn't think "what's with the costumes?" They made sense.

They still exist due to cultural inertia. Like superheroes themselves, they will be a historical curiosity within a couple of decades.

Henry said...

Jay Vogt said...
You say that like it's a bad thing.

Helena does the crazy better.

Henry said...

Just did a quick memory check. At first my memory was "Lucy Honeychurch .......... Bellatrix Lestrange" and then I started filling in: The King's Speech, Les Mis, Sweeney Todd, Mighty Aphrodite.

She's awesome.

Unknown said...

Better for Pedos

without those sweater zeppelins

After the transgenderes

the next group to free is

"Minor Attracted Persons"

and MAPS just want to be loved too

Saint Croix said...

hello! one word: Julie Newmar

I just discovered that Julie Newmar played a sex robot before she was Catwoman.

Technically, just a robot. But when Julie Newmar plays a robot it's definitely a sex robot.

It's called My LIving Doll

rcocean said...

Worst She-Ra, ever.

rcocean said...

If you're over a certain age, its hard not to think that a large portion of the adult population is brain damaged for caring about comic books and comic book heroes.

But evidently, that's all the under 50 crowd has these days. Literature, Movies, Plays, etc. is all aimed at SJW morons and/or Oprah Women.

In terms of Pop culture - it must be the shits growing up as boy these days.

liza moon said...

i crafted 30 different "uniforms" for our superheroine series. the ladies loved the custom tailored metalicized spandex outfits, belts, boots, wigs, and masks. i have a series of photos of the look of wonder on their faces as they get their first look at themselves in the mirror having become "super". given that we were, like the 1966 Batman series, laughing at the idea a costume could be both so revealing yet protective, we have about an equal amount of fans who love our puns and folks who really don't like having holes poked in their cherished coming of age fantasies. isn't puberty like becoming super? we would not have cast the new She-Ra for our jokes.

babuilder said...

Ugh. The new She-Ra is a dead ringer for David Hogg, although maybe a little more masculine than him.

ManleyPointer said...

Most critics I've seen focus on the lazy "calarts" style. They had the same complaint about the recently announced Thundercats reboot:

https://brobible.com/culture/article/cartoon-network-new-thundercats-tv-show/3/

The Thundercats are mostly male. So the apologists couldn't deflect by shaming critics as oversexed man-children.

This coming from the same crowd demanding a Disney princess who has had an abortion.

AlanKH said...

She looks like a 12-year-old girl. She-Ra, Nabokov edition.

Balfegor said...

Re: langford peel:


Here is a link to that Alt*Hero website where you can get information about the new line of conservative comics by Vox Day, Chuck Dixon and several other well know comic book writers and illustrators who were blacklisted by the social justice warriors at Marvel and DC.

I believe the first issues are available on Amazon and are selling particularly well for a new venture.


I'm not really the target audience since I never read Marvel or DC comics in the first place, but honestly, self-consciously "conservative" comics sound almost as bad as social justice warrior comics. You tend to lose something important when you decide your art has to be overtly political in some way. I'm not saying these couldn't be just "fun" in a neutral way. But that would be my fear. If I were part of the target audience, at least, which I'm not, so I guess this doesn't really matter to me either way. SJW's haven't hit manga yet, and that's basically all I read these days.

Balfegor said...

Also, more on point, does anyone actually think the 80's character design is better? It's clunky and ugly. The new one at least has some style to it. Sure, you could give her breasts, but do you need to? The design looks fine as is. I actually think this is a pretty good update.

But again, I never watched the original, and I'm not going to watch the update/reboot/whatever, so I'm from the outside looking in here . . .

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The cat women link is painful.

Cats don't drink milk like that. unless you want to give them all sorts of digestive problems. Also, a woman with that much pink in her life does not have a top secret black patent skin-tight sex-kitten outfit hidden in the back.

Towering Barbarian said...

@ Belfegor,
Yeah, as someone who saw the original I'd say the 1980s version is better.

1.She-Ra was as much of a guy magnet as Ranma Saotome was a chick magnet in both her civilian and She Ra identities. She only had 2 permanent interests in Bow (The guy who was either in charge of the Rebellion or #2 within the Rebellion depending on the writer) but it did seem like there was always a handsome guy apart from those two every second or third episode.. The new version looks a bit underage for that to anyone who doesn't have a Lolita Complex. So yeah, in that regard she does need breasts or else having adult guys show interest in her would be sorta creepy to watch.

2. This brings us to the second way she looks way underage. The 1980s She Ra had been kidnapped from her family, drafted into Hordak's army and had risen to high rank and a position of trust before she defected to the Rebellion and rose to a position of trust there as part of leading the fight against Hordak. The 1980s version may look too much of a glamour girl for that but the second one doesn't look like she's old enough for anything more dangerous then going out for Trick or Treat without adults on Halloween and definitely doesn't look old enough for the half-decade to decade of activity such a background would involve. I presume they're going to give her a new background to go with the change. But at that point I have to wonder "If you're going to change both the story and the characters that completely why don't you just complete the process by changing the names as well instead of presenting us with bad alternaverse fanfic?".



The She-Ra series was not among my favorites so I don't have too much emotional investment in it but if I were a serious fan of that series I suspect I would be very, very annoyed. This has Ghostbusters-level debacle written all over it.