Via Page Six, which is just telling us what Roseanne Barr put up on on her own YouTube page. The explanation at the YouTube page is: "Roseanne, like always, cuts through the bullshit and gets the heart of the matter."
I note the replica of the Venus of Willendorf in the lower right corner of the screen.
From Jarrett's Wikipedia page, you see her connection to Iran:
Jarrett was born in Shiraz, Iran, during the Pahlavi dynasty, to American parents James E. Bowman and Barbara T. Bowman. Her father, a pathologist and geneticist, ran a hospital for children in Shiraz in 1956 as part of a program where American physicians and agricultural experts sought to help in the health and farming efforts of developing countries. When she was five years old, the family moved to London for a year, later moving to Chicago in 1963.It is believable that someone would assume Jarrett had Iranian ancestry. But:
Her parents are both of European and African-American descent. On the television series Finding Your Roots, DNA testing indicated that Jarrett is of 49% European, 46% African, and 5% Native American descent. Among her European roots, she was found to have French and Scottish ancestry....So, Jarrett was born in Iran but not of Iranian ancestry. I'll leave it to you to think about whether Iranian people are properly referred to as "white."
A more promising topic: The get-Roseanne movement had little to do with real concern about racism. But was it more about suppressing criticism of the Iran deal (and protecting Obama) or more about using whatever was most convenient to make a pariah out of this conspicuous Trump supporter?
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115 comments:
ABC President Channing Dungey announced Roseanne has been rehired for the purpose of being re-fired.
Yeah, if you go by the wikipedia image, Jarrett looks like a middle-aged white lady -- I don't think someone meeting her on the street would react to her as "Black." But there are other photographs where she's darker and may not look African but at least looks non-white.
The get-Roseanne movement had little to do with real concern about about racism. But was it more about suppressing criticism of the Iran deal (and protecting Obama) or more about using whatever was most convenient to make a pariah out of this conspicuous Trump supporter?
I think it was 99% "whatever was most convenient to make a pariah out of this conspicuous Trump supporter." Only I would say it's not so much that she's a Trump supporter herself but that she was a vehicle for humanizing, sympathetic portrayals of Trump supporters, and a lot of anti-Trump people found that infuriating. It barely registered that Roseanne Barr was criticising the JCPOA, and honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would have cared that she did . . . although I guess I habitually underestimate how meaningful it is to the general public that this or that entertainer support this or that policy argument.
How about "and?"
When do we get transcripts of conversations between Val and Barack on the Iran deal?
What does Iran have on Barack? We all *know* Iran has the total dirt on Obama.
Val now lives with Barack and Michelle. Bedroom arrangements not known. Maybe WaPo can run a story on that.
In our crazy world that mistake makes all the difference. More white than black Jarrett gets the racial preference of black which means that Barr’s Ambien-induced early morning tweet shitcans her career. “I thought the bitch was white!” Classic.
"But was it more about suppressing criticism of the Iran deal (and protecting Obama) or more about using whatever was most convenient to make a pariah out of this conspicuous Trump supporter?"
Embrace the word 'and'. Twofers are good...
In more obscure news: Some celebrity was forced to recant his support of Ben Shapiro - because leftwing intolerance to ideas.
Iran is another spelling of "Aryan" for those wondering if Iranians are "white."
Sorry, Crimso. I was hung up in verification mode and missed your post.
"I thought the bitch was white!" is a close corollary to ex-DC Mayor's famous pronouncement that "the bitch set me up!"
“I thought the bitch was white!” Classic.
This line really needs to catch on. To be used anytime the speaker attempts humor that is not well received.
"First prize in the contest is two tickets to the Cleveland Browns game. Second prize is three tickets."
(groans)
"I thought the bitch was white!"
(cheers)
It was because she insulted a friend of her boss.
"The get-Roseanne movement had little to do with real concern about about racism."
Accusations of racism always have "little to do with real concern about about racism."
That's why we deplorables are pretty well immunized against them--against the required PC sensitivity, anyway, not against possible real consequences.
Another corollary to the Universal Theory of Progressive Instrumentalism: racism is just a tool.
Here, a sorta Trump supporter had made herself vulnerable and presented an opportunity, hence the tool became a cost-effective weapon. They made quick work of the witless pariah. Protecting VJ was a bonus, not that it figured into the surface-level discourse: wouldn't want to delve too far into her antecedents, actual politics, and involvement in major O actions.
Emily Latella...
"What's all this fuss I keep hearing about violins on television!"
"If we only have violins after 10pm little babies will grow up without music appreciation, and learn to play guitars and bongo drums, and go to Africa and join these rock and roll outfits."
"I thought she was white! Fuck!"
"Never mind!"
If I understand the Dems and LLRs correctly, Trump meeting "privately" with Putin was worse than sending pallets of cash to the mullahs.
I thought the bitch was white, goddammit! I thought the bitch was white! Fuck!
Fuck! indeed. Now I'm glad she lost her stupid teevee show.
Born in Iran? But all she needs is one of those special order Hawaiian Birth Certificates and she could become the next American President. She would comein as the most experienced President in our history.
Interestingly, Peter Strzok also spent time in Iran growing up.
Ms. Barr’s psychiatrist needs to tweak her meds a bit.
Persians and Arabs are considered white by the federal government. So are Spanish, Greeks, and Italians. Maybe white should just refer to Russians, Scandinavians, Germans, French, Brits, Scots, and Irish.
Racial categories are sort of broad. Asians covers a lot of people — India and China which are both large countries with very different people and there are a slew of other Asian countries.
Then we have multi/racial and multiethnic folks. America especially has many mutts
As the recent actor apologizing for suggesting Ben Rhodes be engaged with an open mind shows. With Democrats, it is always about destroying their opponents lives if possible. The democrat party is the most dangerous organization in the country.
So her influence led to the big money payout to Iran in the twilight of Obama's presidency?
They haven't completely snuffed RoseAnne out just yet.
"wouldn't want to delve too far into her antecedents"
You mean her nigga ancestry? Thanks for giving me my daily dose of racist deplorable this morning. You, like Trump, show your true colors whenever you speak. Vote the bum OUT in 2020.
Re: Sebastian:
If I understand the Dems and LLRs correctly, Trump meeting "privately" with Putin was worse than sending pallets of cash to the mullahs.
In fairness, Russia is a bigger deal than Iran. Iran is only developing nuclear weapons. Russia actually has nuclear weapons.
This is a derail, but really, the most logical explanation of Russia's strategy for the 2016 election is the same as their strategy for the 2012 election and the 2008 election. In every election, there's one candidate who is better for Russia than the other. In August 2008, tensions between Georgia and South Ossettian separatists supported by Russia escalated into open warfare. McCain pushed for a forceful response against Russia (because he always does); Obama did not. Russia obviously preferred Obama. In 2012, Romney characterised Russia as our number one geopolitical adversary; Obama cracked jokes about it. Russia obviously preferred Obama (and significantly stepped up their activities in 2013-2016). 2016 was special, because in addition to Clinton II generally pushing a harder line against Russia than Trump, Putin had a particular animus against Clinton II, whom he blamed for, uh, interfering with Russian democracy during their 2011 elections. So he preferred Sanders to Clinton II, and Trump to Clinton II. Basically, anyone but Clinton II.
Thus, it's not purely that the Russians wanted to sow discord in the US. That was clearly one of their objectives, and has been going back to the 50's and 60's. But it's also not the case that they were indifferent between Trump and Clinton II. It's not a mystery why Putin would obviously prefer Trump over Clinton. But Trump's opponents keep muddying it up, because they don't want it to be "Putin preferred Trump the same way he preferred Obama" -- they want Trump to be uniquely compromised by the Russians.
Roseanne is a sometimes-truther who also thinks she has invented some sort of super-nutritious macademia nut on her macademia nut farm.
The former is a lot more offensive than insulting fabian commie princess Valerie Jarrett.
The latter is just confusing.
@Michael KKK said, Iran is another spelling of "Aryan" for those wondering if Iranians are "white."
Don't bring your racist tripe to this blog. However, my mother was murdered by an Iranian-born doctor, so I can attest to at least one Nazi killer from Iran. Some of your former patients that survived your malpractice, would likely call you Dr. Mengele because of your medical incompetence. Remember your victims in your will.
If Sarah gets sick of being Trump's Press Secretary, I wonder if Roseanne would take the job?
Two people made the same joke about "and" instead of "or", which I also thought of, but Ann is asking which of the two motives was greater, and they can't both be greater.
Yeah, I think it was all about making a pariah out of a conspicuous Trump supporter.
Althouse, you say that like it was a bad thing!
Pro Tip for Trump Supporters: Don't say stupid shit. Don't put out stupid shit on Twitter. Trump may get away with it; he does have the weight of the Executive Branch of the government of the United States to back him up. But you probably won't get away with it. You probably won't even get away with your backing up of the stupid shit that Trump puts out on Twitter.
When do we get transcripts of conversations between Val and Barack on the Iran deal?
What does Iran have on Barack? We all *know* Iran has the total dirt on Obama.
Also, when do we start investigating whether Russians meddled in the 2008/2012 elections?
Chuck: Michael, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Michael, children's ice cream.
Michael K: [very nervous] Lord, Chuck.
Chuck: You know when fluoride was introduced?
Michael K: I... no, no. I don't, Chuck.
Chuck: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, Michael, the same year Trump was born. How does that coincide with your post-war Trump Derangement conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Trump supporter works.
Michael K: Uh, Chuck, Chuck, listen... tell me, tell me, Chuck. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory?
Chuck: [somewhat embarrassed] Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Michael, during the physical act of love.
Michael K: Hmm.
Chuck: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
Michael K: Hmm.
Chuck: I can assure you it has not recurred, Michael. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Michael.
Michael K: No.
Chuck: But I... I do deny them my essence.
Oh, and this: I think Roseanne illustrates the limits of populism. There at many admirable aspects of populism, along with many abhorrent ones. My point of departure from populism -- at a minimum -- is the point at which ignorance is hailed as a virtue. The old, "We don't need to know about that pointy-headed stuff."
Populism is nice, when it is working on a level that holds common sense over complexity; but only when that common sense is demonstrably superior to a somehow-flawed complexity.
Will Rogers was of course a great populist. And rather wise, in a common sense way. Father Charles Coughlin was his contemporary on the radio in the 1930's, and was another populist in a decidedly different way.
I'll leave it to you to think about whether Iranian people are properly referred to as "white."
Actually it's worse. Iranians are Aryans.
“When do we get transcripts of conversations between Val and Barack on the Iran deal?”
When do we get transcripts of the conversation between Trump and Putin in Helsinki?
“What does Iran have on Barack? We all *know* Iran has the total dirt on Obama.”
What does Putin have on Trump?
If Iranians are not "white" what are they?
Not black, not hispanic, not Asian.
What other choices are there?
John Henry
As the recent actor apologizing for suggesting Ben Rhodes be engaged with an open mind shows
It was Ben Shapiro. The Left likes Ben Rhodes.
Kevin, I take offense at you cribbing from my favorite movie of all time.
As for crazy conspiracy theories, are you seriously working this topic on behalf of the guy who claimed to have his own team of private investigators in Hawaii, and that they "cannot believe what they are finding..."?
"One of the greatest scams in the history."
She keeps playing with her hair in the video, but she has to know it is old age white women nicotine rat hair.
If her dominate gene's would kick in, we could give her some cheese and poke her with a stick. A rat stick.
Re: Chuck:
Oh, and this: I think Roseanne illustrates the limits of populism. There at many admirable aspects of populism, along with many abhorrent ones. My point of departure from populism -- at a minimum -- is the point at which ignorance is hailed as a virtue. The old, "We don't need to know about that pointy-headed stuff."
This one isn't about "pointy-headed stuff," though. Everyone involved knows and accepts the rule that comparing non-Blacks to monkeys is the height of comedy, but comparing Blacks (even non-obvious Blacks) to monkeys is career-ending racism. We may think it's a silly rule, but shibboleths aren't there to make sense -- they're there to distinguish Gileadites from Ephraimites so you can slaughter the Ephraimites where they stand.
She's complaining that she got caught up by the fact that Valerie Jarrett is non-obviously African American. It doesn't matter -- for policy or really anything else -- what Jarrett's precise racial pedigree is. But it's enough to trigger the rule.
Bob Boyd,
Good point about Peter Strzok growing up in Iran. I had not heard that til yesterday.
The No Agenda boys deconstructed Strzok's testimony on the Sunday show which I just got to. Very interesting.
So then I started looking into Peter Strzok's father. Even mote interesting. His father and he lived in Iran under the Shah. The father was a big Khomeini supporter. After leaving Iran, they went to Saudi Arabia. Dad worked for Bell-textron.
For those who enjoy far out conspiracy theories, suppose Strzok jr is an Iranian agent?
L
Dupposr Brennan and otherd are Iranian agents?
John Henry
@Trumpitt:
Roseanne's flub was Obama's fault.
She popped an Ambien and thought it was OK to say anything about white ladies after Obama choose white lady lynching advocate Kehinde Wiley to paint his official portrait, an act that should exclude him from decent society for the rest of his life but just won kudos from the self-pro-genociding-cismasochistic-masoch-wigger-kill-the-other-whiteys-cept-me crowd.
Still, I just don't get the magic macademia nut thing.
I totally identified with her exasperation, watching her tune-out the question piling one hypothetical on top of another just before her outburst.
Chuck: I think scare quote "populism" is a badly misused historical term. Of all the political science definitions, it might be the second-most abused, after scare-quote "isolationism."
When polysci profs and their media pillowmates don't like something, it's populist. When they like it, it's revolutionary, or vanguard, or progressive etc. etc. baa baa woof woof.
Even the classic cases, Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh (who was spying for us when he cozied up to Himmler) are more complicated than depicted and often less questionable than many cult heroes who are not held to contemporary standards viz prejudice or threat level.
I'd be curious what you think.
Kevin, I take offense at you cribbing from my favorite movie of all time.
If the essence fits...
As for crazy conspiracy theories, are you seriously working this topic on behalf of the guy who claimed to have his own team of private investigators in Hawaii, and that they "cannot believe what they are finding..."?
The topic of this thread is Roseanne, her firing, Valerie Jarret, Iran, and whether Iranians are classified as white.
Yet once again you try to make it all about something Trump did before he was President.
Trump is your fluoride.
I have known 3 Iranian citizens in my life- all three were light complexioned- only marginally darker than myself. A normal American encountering one by sight might guess that they are from southern Eurasia, but I think it more likely one would guess they were Hispanic.
Iranian=Persia=Ayran=White
Pretty much it.
According to National Geographic's Genographic Project, "Typically, an Iranian native’s genetic composition is 56 percent Arabian , 4 percent Eastern Africa, 2 percent Northern Africa, 4 percent Central Asia, 6 percent Asia Minor and 2 percent from Southern Europe and Southern Asia each (According to Geographic Project)."
Also, Valerie Jarrett is not ethnically Iranian; she's a mixed white/African-American woman. And what does any of that have to do with the Iran deal?
I have always thought Jarrett was white. It was part of the reason I saw her as Obama's "mommy figure" and he did everything she directed him to do, from Chicago to the White House.
And I've never thought of the Planet of the Apes characters as black.
p.s. Oops. I probably should have read to the bottom of the post.
Inga:
With Obama and Iran we have a quid pro quo to the tune of $140 billion dollars.
With Trump and Putin, what exactly has Putin gotten from Trump, aside from Trump not screaming like Donald Surherland from Invasion of the Body Snatchers at him during a diplomatic summit? And whatever you come up with, it better seriously outweigh fracking, Syria and the dozens of other things it's been pointed out endlessly that Trump has done that completely screws Putin.
Among some conspiracy theorists, Jarret’s Iranian riots or whatever we want to call it promoted her to use her Rasputin like influence over Obama to get Obama’s deal with Iran. It’s a crackpot theory. Obama made a deal with Iran as part of his “legacy.” He was rather desperate about it, to have some foreign policy achievement. But his legacy is Trump.
At least, that completely screw Putin in comparison to the way Obama and Hillary bent over backwards for him. When you can give us anything re: Trump that remotely compares to the obvious bribery and payoff that was Uranium One, let me know, cause then I'll have half a dozen other corrupt Dem transactions with Putin for you to counter.
@Qwinn:
With Obama and Iran we have a quid pro quo to the tune of $140 billion dollars.
Oh, the myth that will never die. First of all, the JCPOA was not negotiated simply between the US and Iran but between multiple powers, including the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, and (to a lesser extent) the EU. The $140 billion, which is an exaggerated amount, is not American money. It was Iranian money frozen in foreign accounts due to US, EU, and UN sanctions. The point of the sanctions was to get Iran to the negotiating table, and a relief of sanctions was always going to be on offer. Had the US walked away from the table and no deal had been achieved, the sanctions regime would have broken down, and the money would have started going to Tehran anyway. As it stands now, our reintroduction of sanctions against Iran is likely to have a significant impact on them. India and China have already declared that they will ignore the US sanctions and continue to import Iranian oil. The Europeans are also exploring ways to skirt US sanction through the European Central Bank.
"In fairness, Russia is a bigger deal than Iran. Iran is only developing nuclear weapons. Russia actually has nuclear weapons."
Thanks for that piece of information. I didn't know that.
What are we supposed to do with it? Kiss Putin's ass like Trump is doing? Vote his sorry ass OUT in 2020!
@Trumpit:
What are we supposed to do with it? Kiss Putin's ass like Trump is doing? Vote his sorry ass OUT in 2020!
What do you believe the appropriate policy towards Russia is? Sanctions? Military escalation? What do you imagine an adversarial relationship will get us over a constructive, cooperative one?
Serious question: Should we consider the offspring of Prince Harry and Meaghan as black? If they are considered black and decide to go to college in America should they be eligible for affirmative action? Is it possible for any black person anywhere to have such a background of wealth and privilege that their race card is null and void?....... Roseanne comes from an extremely troubled and lower class background. Valerie is a product of comfort and privilege. Her ancestors were free blacks who owned slaves in New Orleans according to the Gates' show on PBS. It takes considerable ingenuity to cast Valerie as the victim and Roseanne as her oppressor in this scenario.
“I thought the bitch was white!” Classic.
It is. So much so that it sounds like one of those Trumpian deliberate/not-deliberate pins in the voodoo doll of political correctness. Barr’s a lot of things I’m not down with, but stupid isn’t one of them.
J Farmer:
Yes, I know all that. Doesn't change the fact that Obama was the one that unlocked money that had been frozen for 30+ years, and got virtually nothing positive for American in return.
@William:
Serious question: Should we consider the offspring of Prince Harry and Meaghan as black?
No. But to see almost the entirety of the British media falling all over themselves in praising Markel's ethnic background is pretty laughable and embarrassing. The degree to which anti-white masochism has infected northwest Europe is sad.
Iran is another spelling of "Aryan" for those wondering if Iranians are "white."
Indeed. The ancient Iranians called their land "Iranshahr," which means "Home of the Aryans."
The tomb of one of the Achaemenid kings (one of the Artaxerxes, I think) bears the following inscription:
"Arya, Arya, parasaya puthra, Arya Arya cithra."
Which translates as:
"I am Aryan, the son of an Aryan, and an Aryan of Aryan descent."
Tina Trent said...
Chuck: I think scare quote "populism" is a badly misused historical term. Of all the political science definitions, it might be the second-most abused, after scare-quote "isolationism."
When polysci profs and their media pillowmates don't like something, it's populist. When they like it, it's revolutionary, or vanguard, or progressive etc. etc. baa baa woof woof.
Even the classic cases, Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh (who was spying for us when he cozied up to Himmler) are more complicated than depicted and often less questionable than many cult heroes who are not held to contemporary standards viz prejudice or threat level.
I'd be curious what you think.
Oh I mostly agree with you and I thank you for such a thoughtful post. Yeah, "populism" is shorthand at best and could even be dangerous shorthand in some instances.
I'm not sure that the academic classes always use "populism" as a pejorative, but your overall point is well taken. What else do you think we might we call Roseann Barr (apart from the obvious "comedienne" and "actress") in her political role?
Incidentally, there's another similarly-deployed word -- "controversial" -- that is now used against Republicans almost exclusively in much of the left-leaning media world. For instance: "Controversial Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh." Did you ever hear the phrase, "Controversial Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor"? There is the "controversial lobbying group ALEC..." But we never hear about the "controversial activist group, the Southern Poverty Law Center." Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Thank you, by the way, for simply asking what I thought, and I am glad to know what you think.
@Qwinn:
Yes, I know all that. Doesn't change the fact that Obama was the one that unlocked money that had been frozen for 30+ years, and got virtually nothing positive for American in return.
This was not money that "had been frozen for 30+ years." Most of the money was not controlled by the US as it was held in foreign central banks. The Executive Orders that were lifted as a result of the JCPOA were Obama-era orders. Also, the UN Security Council resolutions that were lifted dated back to 2006. You can read all of the sanctions-related commitments here and the Implementation Plan here.
Also, it is abusrd to say that we "got virtually nothing positive." The JCPOA obtained limits on Iran's nuclear program above what they are permitted under the NPT, as well as an intrusive inspection, monitoring, and verification regime.
The question still is why did the Obama Administration swing from pro-Sunni/pro-Saudi to pro-Shiite/pro-Iranian. I think much of the early pro-Sunni slant was because Crooked Hillary Clinton was running foreign policy, or at least had more influence there than Obama did. And Clinton's closest aide's family has long had close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. He was essentially raised Sunni. But before leaving office Obama sold out our interests, big time, with Iran, giving them billions of dollars and removing sanctions for an unenforceable (and quickly violated) promise to stop their nuclear weapons program. Moreover he had a perfect opportunity to help with regime change there, and walked away, allowed wing the rebelling Iranians to be butchered. I could say that he was bought, except, he was the one buying. And the answer still seems mostly likely his closed aide, and possible puppet master, ValJar. Any my guess is that she is the one with the significant Iranian bias. Apparently, Farsi was spoken in her household growing up, even after leaving Iran, which strongly suggests her parents maintaining friendships with a number of Iranians. And, as most anyone knows who has spent much time with them, they look down on the Arabs as dirty nomads driving their camels around the desert for thousands of years after they, the Persians, were living in cities. Plus, the Arabs (and the Turks) had relegated them to a secondary position as the head of Islam. And had conquered them, etc. And I suspect that these biases rubbed off on ValJar as she grew up, around a lot of proud Persians.
It brings to mind the line from "Patton": "I was only trying to be polite to the old ladies. lf I'd seen the Russians there, I'd have mentioned the sons of bitches."
Farmer will defend Iran to his dying breath.
I should note that the Aryans, although not negroid, were not necessarily pale-complected. Their skin tones ranged in hue from tribe to tribe, ethnic group to ethnic group. The upper caste peoples of northwest India -- especially the inhabitants of Rajputana -- are overwhelming of Aryan descent and their skin color can range from the proverbial "whiter shade of pale" to coffee-colored (but not deep-dark, like the Bengalis, e.g., and peoples of Dravidian descent in south India). Same goes for various peoples of South-Central Asia, such as Pashtun-Afghanis, a large number of whom have green and blue eyes. In "The Man Who Would Be King" Roxanne, the Afghani woman Daniel Dravat takes to wife, astonishes Peachy with her classic beauty: clean up her and dress her nice, he observes, and she'd be right at home in the poshest restaurants of London.
Cau·ca·sian
kôˈkāZHən/Submit
adjective
1.
NORTH AMERICAN
white-skinned; of European origin.
"twenty of the therapists were Caucasian, two were African American, and two were Hispanic"
2.
relating to the Caucasus.
noun
1.
NORTH AMERICAN
a white person; a person of European origin.
"the man is described as being a 50-year-old Caucasian with a full head of graying hair"
2.
a person from the Caucasus.
Guess what part of the world the Caucasus are in?
“I thought the bitch was white!” Classic.
Sounds like Richard Pryor.
When I was growing up, I would read about events in Eastern Europe with a fascinated horror and revulsion. "Thank God that can never happen here!"
"Also, it is abusrd to say that we "got virtually nothing positive." The JCPOA obtained limits on Iran's nuclear program above what they are permitted under the NPT, as well as an intrusive inspection, monitoring, and verification regime."
I think that is quite naive, esp after the recent Israeli raid that netted a significant quantity of information on their nuclear program. According to them, the Iranians cheated almost from Day 1, and the verification regime was structured to be ineffective to allow the Iranians plenty of tie to clean up areas before inspectors were allowed in (similar to what their neighbors, the Iraqis, had been allowed to do, and did, under Saddam Hussein, after Desert Storm).
Farmer will defend Iran to his dying breath.
The clue was the repeated use of the term JCPOA.
The only two people who use it are J. Farmer and J. F. Kerry.
Farmer may be right about the financial side of the Iranian deal (though he’s being remarkably naive about the nuclear side given the limits of nuclear forensics) but there’s no denying that the pallet o’ cash was a terrible optic. If it’s your dough, come and get it.
@mockturtle:
Farmer will defend Iran to his dying breath.
I am not defending Iran; I am defending the JCPOA, which was a successful and functioning nonproliferation agreement.
@Bruce Hayden:
I think that is quite naive, esp after the recent Israeli raid that netted a significant quantity of information on their nuclear program.
The Israeli raid documents did not reveal any significant new information, and in fact they verified that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program in 2003.
According to them, the Iranians cheated almost from Day 1, and the verification regime was structured to be ineffective to allow the Iranians plenty of tie to clean up areas before inspectors were allowed in (similar to what their neighbors, the Iraqis, had been allowed to do, and did, under Saddam Hussein, after Desert Storm).
Iran's entire fuel cycle is under continuous monitoring by the IAEA. Inspectors of working space inside the facilities. There us 24/7 video monitoring of the sites. Regarding "plenty of tie to clean up areas before inspectors were allowed in," here is the Arms Control Associations' FAQ:
"Under the terms of the JCPOA, Iran is required to provide inspectors access to undeclared facilities (military or civilian) if the IAEA requests it under the terms of Iran’s additional protocol. Under an additional protocol, the IAEA can request explanations for suspect activity and access to a potential covert site to investigate evidence of undeclared nuclear-related activities.
Critics of the JCPOA site access provisions charge that 24 days may provide Iran with enough time to cover up certain types of nuclear activities.
As IAEA safeguards veteran Thomas Shea has noted, when an IAEA request for timely site access involves a building, and especially when it involves uranium (or plutonium), 24 days will not be long enough to prevent detection."
@Kevin:
The only two people who use it are J. Farmer and J. F. Kerry.
And Phillip Hammond and Laurent Fabius and Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Frederica Mogherini and Sergey Lavrov and Wang Yi and Mohammad Zarif. Oh and the 15 members of the UN Security Council who unanimously passed Resolution 2231. But yeah, other than that, nobody uses it.
@The Cracker Emcee Rampant:
Farmer may be right about the financial side of the Iranian deal (though he’s being remarkably naive about the nuclear side given the limits of nuclear forensics) but there’s no denying that the pallet o’ cash was a terrible optic. If it’s your dough, come and get it.
Bad optics, sure, but I am not a praiser of politicians and I don't give a fuck about optics. The so called pallet of cash had nothing to do with the nuclear deal. That was money paid out through a settlement relating to the US-Iran Claims Tribunal in the Hague.
As for the "limits of nuclear forensics," the main arms control organization in the country supported the JCPOA. It has also been supported by the Federation of American Scientists. You can read a comprehensive analysis of the deal here.
Black, white, brown, red... The Planet of the Apes was diverse. She shouldn't normalize diversitists by pandering to their color judgments.
@Bruce Hayden:
The question still is why did the Obama Administration swing from pro-Sunni/pro-Saudi to pro-Shiite/pro-Iranian.
If only this were true. I've been arguing for such a pivot since September 12th, 2001. Alas, "the commonest error in politics is sticking to the carcass of dead policies," and no such swing ever occurred during the Obama administration. Obama indulged Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Turkey in their destructive interventions in Syria, which was the proximate cause of the rise of ISIS. The administration also supported Saudi Arabia's cruel, destructive war in Yemen. The administration almost made the biggest arms sale in US history to Saudi Arabia in 2010.
But before leaving office Obama sold out our interests, big time, with Iran, giving them billions of dollars and removing sanctions for an unenforceable (and quickly violated) promise to stop their nuclear weapons program.
The agreement was not unenforceable, and the IAEA has repeatedly verified Iran's commitments under the agreement. Please identity a provision of the JCPOA that you believe was "quickly violated."
Moreover he had a perfect opportunity to help with regime change there, and walked away, allowed wing the rebelling Iranians to be butchered.
There was never any "opportunity to help with regime change." Iran's Green Movement was about support for Mir Hossein Mousavi in the presidential election against Ahmadinejad, whose election they believe was a fraud. Mousavi is widely considered a reformist figure in Iran, but he was prime minister of Iran throughout the 1980s. His main campaign attacks against Ahmadinejad were in relation to his economic management. Even if the Green Movement had gotten 100% of what it wanted, it would not have resulted in "regime change."
Trumpit's mother is dead, so that makes me happy.
@Farmer
I've argued the JCPOA with you before. Basically although it lengthened the arc towards getting nukes it also guaranteed that the would get them at a point of their choosing by puling out when they felt ready, and the time to strike was now, while the iron was hot. I now think that Trump made a mistake by pulling out of the JCPOA unilaterally. He is trying to handle too many things at once which makes our leverage much less in each instance. Trade issues should have been handled separately, and one at a time. China first, not concurrently with NAFTA and other trade pacts, and they should have been taken on at different times. Trump is building a house of cards by trying to handle trade, nuclear proliferation, NATO, immigration, and other items at the same time. So, although I still believe that the JCPOA did nothing more than delay Iran getting nukes until a time of their choosing, and it should be scrapped, I now believe Trump has screwed the pooch by trying to take everything on at once.
@pacwest:
Prior to the implementation of the JCPOA, Iran's break out time was roughly two to three months. Under the JCPOA, its breakout time was pushed to around a year. Prior to the JCPOA, Iran had more than 19,000 centrifuges and with a little over 10,000 producing uranium. After implementation, this was reduced to a little over 5,000.
Pro Tip for Trump Supporters: Don't say stupid shit.
Chuck wrote that.
Chuck.
So much to be concerned about here, poor Roseanne. But, I can’t decide whether smoking is one of those concerns or the least of her problems and really a huge help.
When do we get transcripts of the conversation between Trump and Putin in Helsinki?
Immediately after Trump sends $150 billion - in the form of a pallet full of cash - to Russia. And not a minute before.
@Jim at:
Immediately after Trump sends $150 billion - in the form of a pallet full of cash - to Russia. And not a minute before.
Fake news. There was never any $150 billion "in the form of a pallet full of cash."
Roseanne needs to know to ask T Noah first if someone can be defined as African or American or French or Iranian or black or white or Martian or whatnot. When a president can be laughed at and who cannot. He has license.
Some people can say whatever they want to say, on a television show even.
Other people cannot say as much.
Other people cannot likely say what Group A says, but they can always tell Group B that you don't understand things very well, and why it is different, and why Group B people need to be vilified and cast out.
Things would be easier if only certain people could wear a certain colour.
Roseanne has been totally eliminated from TV. Her reruns were playing every day. The same channel that put the Scarlet letter on her continues to run the Cosby Show reruns.
Guess Obamas and Jarret have no problem with the convicted rapist.
Prior to the implementation of the JCPOA, Iran's break out time was roughly two to three months.
And have heard 1 year breakout time at that time.
Under the JCPOA, its breakout time was pushed to around a year.
This timeline assumes IR-1 and some IR-2 centrifuges. Iran is capable of making IR-8s at hidden locations. There is also some question as to how fast they can process their stockpile of gas infused uranium. There is a lot of guesswork around that 1 year number, which is a short time frame anyways. I've always heard 3-4 months after year 10.
Prior to the JCPOA, Iran had more than 19,000 centrifuges and with a little over 10,000 producing uranium. After implementation, this was reduced to a little over 5,000.
IR-1 and 2s. If they aquire a relatively small number of 8s the 5000 makes no difference.
But we are splitting hairs. My point is that you are treating JCPOA as if it we in a vacumn. Lost leverage, missile advancement, and finances for other endeavors have to be taken into account. Also the glide path to an becoming accepted nuclear power.
I haven't checked lately. How is the bidding going on the Saudi's nuclear reactor?
I'm confused, is Jarrett a monkey or a dog?
The bitch thing is another good reason she is off of mass communications. She can't communicate effectively.
And again, I want to state that nuclear proliferation is the biggest threat to humanity. JCPOA was unhelpful in this regard, imho. All the rest of the political circus is pretty much arranging deck chairs on the Titanic if we can't solve the nuclear problem.
@pacwest:
"Centrifuges, however, are only one component that must be taken into account to limit breakout capacity. Breakout also depends on stockpiles of enriched material and enrichment levels."
Section 3: Understanding the JCPOA
The original meaning of Aryan before the Nazis got a hold of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
J Farmer also ignores that the Iran deal obligated the US to defend Iran against any and all attacks, i.e. we signed up to fight Israel on behalf of Iran.
Of course, given your relenting hatred of Israel and anti-semitic history, that's probably a feature for you, not a bug. Joint Iranian-US airstrikes on Tel Aviv is probably your idea of heaven, after all.
Re: Sharkcutie:
The original meaning of Aryan before the Nazis got a hold of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
Modern race scientists now use the name Yamnaya for what the Nazis would have considered the ancient "Aryan" conquerors of Europe. They contributed something like 40-50% of modern Northern European genomes and a much lower percentage, like 0-30%, of Southern European genomes, but they . . . might not have been quite the blonde haired blue-eyed gods the Nazis imagined.
The Causcasus mountains are on a strip of land between the Caspian and Black Sea, directly above Iran. Caucasians is the term used to describe "whites" because the Caucasus mountains were thought by some early anthropologists to be the original home of the Aryan race or master race. That race included Europeans, Iranians and Rajput Indians. Valeria Jarret comes from and married into a group of wealthy well-connected mostly black families entrenched in Chicago. Her father, James Bowman, worked agricultural genetics in Iran under the Shah and then studied for a year at the Galton Lab in London under Lionel Penrose a lefty eugenicist, who was not a member of the English Eugenics Society but rather one who pioneered left eugenics after World War II. Jarret's father pioneered the term "backdoor to eugenics" by which he meant using exclusion from welfare or medicare benefits to force compliance with social policies of a eugenic nature on poor (black) women. James E. Bowman, Genetics and the Law: The Ethical, Legal, and Social Implications of Genetic Technology and Biomedical Ethics: The Road to Eugenics, 3 U. CHI. L. SCH. ROUNDTABLE 491, 492 (1996). (Troy Duster afterwards wrote a good book with that title.)
J. Farmer Said: "The Israeli raid documents did not reveal any significant new information, and in fact they verified that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program in 2003."
If that is true then why did Obama tout the use of the Stuxnet virus deployed between 2005 and 2010 to damage the Iranian enrichment program. That would have been unnecessary if it was abandoned in 2003. As I recall there was evidence that German sourced VF motor drive speeds were manipulated by the virus to damage centrifuges, they should not even have been running post 2003 per the Iranian "abandonment." If they were not running they could not have been damaged.
"President Barack Obama feigned ignorance as to why Republicans were upset by a Wall Street Journal report that pallets of cash were delivered to Iran the same day as the American hostages were released.
Obama explained that pallets of cash were used in the exchange because the United States doesn’t have a banking relationship with Iran.
“[W]e couldn’t send them a check, and we could not wire the money,” he said during a press conference at the Pentagon today."
This period news report speaks for itself.
well not exactly,
https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1005509484398174209
Farmer will defend Iran to his dying breath.
They're the most likely to fix the "Jewish Problem."
Blogger mccullough said...
his legacy is Trump. (His referring to Obama)
I've been reading Althouse since the beginning and participating in comments about as long.
This is far and away the single best thing I've ever read hear. You should make bumper stickers that say "Obama's legacy is Trump"
It is what I've been saying since about 2010, even though I didn't think of Trump at the time. By design or incompetence, Obama, pretty much single handedly, slew fascism/progressivism in the US, perhaps in the world. He pulled the curtain back and showed us the pathetic little man (fascism) behind it.
President Trump is the result.
Obama's and my mileage may differ but I would be proud to have on my tombstone "His legacy was Trump". Alas, I can claim no credit. Just happiness.
In other news:
https://mobile.twitter.com/HeshmatAlavi/status/1019986491441807360
From the strongly anti-Trump, federally supported NPR -- the daily organ of the Deep State...
They had to agree there has been no President as effective at countering the Russian agenda -- amazing commentary from the left.
Objective observers already understood that Trump has been hard on Russia, but the MSM never was willing to state the obvious, until it was beginning to look foolish in the cold light of day.
https://www.org/2018/07/20/630659379/is-trump-the-toughest-ever-on-russia
Short but relevant segment...
"Populism is nice, when it is working on a level that holds common sense over complexity; but only when that common sense is demonstrably superior to a somehow-flawed complexity."
--
See George Will on voting Dem..
Maybe not pointy-headed..just bow-tie level sphincter clenching..
(someone please tussle his helmet hair)
I have no desire to defend "Rosie"..she can't seem to help herself..and in turn provides validation to TDS harpies.
Lets summarize the Iran "deal"
1. It was never a treaty. Everything we surrendered was not put on the table for the people's representatives to vote on.
2. We frontloaded a $1.7G cash payment from taxpayer funds (account designated for lawsuit settlements). Iranians said this was a ransom for the hostage sailors.
3. We dropped sanctions up front, and cannot place them back easily.
4. Because the deal was a fraud and never explicitly approved, there are lots of "side deals" being discovered. "Inspections" have ridiculous limitations.
5. We gave them a legal path to the bomb.
6. We got a promise from the religious fanatics who don't honor bargains with infidels that why would slow up.
7. On his way out, Obama had the UN drop a turd on Israel as his final act in "remaking the middle east". He had the leadership skills of Carter and managed to mess up the ME as much as Bush Jr.
Bottom line: Don't have John Kerry or J. Farmer rep you!
Jarrett does have a faint resemblance to the veterinarian in the 1968 movie Planet of the Apes, whatever she may or may not be. In the original Planet movies, there were people in heavy make-up. Not actual apes. People. In a costume. What am I missing here (besides that Obama and anyone close to him must be sacrosanct)?
You can completely avoid the problem of people misinterpreting your derogatory posts on social media by not making them in the first place. We used to call this kind of stuff "Being a grown-up."
"Trumpit's mother is dead, so that makes me happy."
Tell that to my face, and we'll see where that lands you.
@Vance:
J Farmer also ignores that the Iran deal obligated the US to defend Iran against any and all attacks, i.e. we signed up to fight Israel on behalf of Iran.
No, it does not. It is instructive that critics of the deal constantly have to rely on outright falsehoods.
Of course, given your relenting hatred of Israel and anti-semitic history, that's probably a feature for you, not a bug. Joint Iranian-US airstrikes on Tel Aviv is probably your idea of heaven, after all.
The notion of hating an entire country is ludicrous and absurd. As for the rest of your pablum, quote a single anti-semitic thing I have ever written, and I'll write you a check for a thousand dollars. Deal?
@Jon Ericson:
Farmer will defend Iran to his dying breath.
They're the most likely to fix the "Jewish Problem."
I do not believe there is any such thing as a "Jewish Problem." Of course these kind of SJW tactics will always be indulged in by people who are either unwilling or unable to actually make an argument on the merits.
@Unknown:
1. It was never a treaty. Everything we surrendered was not put on the table for the people's representatives to vote on.
The US did not "surrender" anything. The US lifted some of the sanctions it had in place the last few years. That is not a "surrender," especially considering that Iran was forced into concessions above and beyond what it was permitted under the NPT.
2. We frontloaded a $1.7G cash payment from taxpayer funds (account designated for lawsuit settlements). Iranians said this was a ransom for the hostage sailors.
That payment had nothing to do with the JCPOA and was the settlement of a claim under the US-Iran Claims Tribunal, which has been in existence for nearly 40 years. Every president since Reagan has made payments through it.
3. We dropped sanctions up front, and cannot place them back easily.
The sanctions that were dropped were from presidential executive orders. They can easily be placed back, and in fact the Trump administration is doing that.
4. Because the deal was a fraud and never explicitly approved, there are lots of "side deals" being discovered. "Inspections" have ridiculous limitations.
Please give an example of "ridiculous limitations."
5. We gave them a legal path to the bomb.
From the Arms Control Association:"From a nonproliferation standpoint, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is a strong agreement. In evaluating the effectiveness of the deal it is important to look at the individual elements of the agreement and assess how the layers work together in a system. No single element blocks Iran’s pathway to nuclear weapons, but taken together, the nuclear restrictions and monitoring form a comprehensive system that will put nuclear weapons out of Iran’s reach for at least 15 years.
Many of the JCPOA provisions also extend beyond 15 years. Monitoring of centrifuge production facilities continues for 20 years, and monitoring of uranium mines and mills continues for 25 years. International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors will have enhanced access indefinitely."
6. We got a promise from the religious fanatics who don't honor bargains with infidels that why would slow up.
This has nothing to do with a "promise." See above.
7. On his way out, Obama had the UN drop a turd on Israel as his final act in "remaking the middle east". He had the leadership skills of Carter and managed to mess up the ME as much as Bush Jr.
I generally agree that Obama's foreign policy was bad. Regime change in Syria, expanding the drone bombing campaign, and supporting the Saudi's war in Yemen are all examples. the JCPOA is not one of those examples.
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