We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents...— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 24, 2018
June 24, 2018
"Trump Calls for Depriving Immigrants Who Illegally Cross Border of Due Process Rights."
That's how the NYT puts it, looking at this tweet:
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1 – 200 of 284 Newer› Newest»Since they are not citizens they have no "due process rights" under our Constitution. That much is obvious. As humans they should be treated with a certain amount of care. Sending them right back deprives them of nothing since they are illegal as soon as they step over the border.
The "failing" NYT will continue to try to pound this week, but the "children separation" excitement is over. Now they have to fight on the illegal immigration issue and that is a loser for them.
Interesting that everyone is still stuck on your previous immigration thread, that rapidly is approaching its 3rd page of comments.
It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants. If a passenger without an American visa is denied permission to board a plane for Houston at the airport in Istanbul, is that a violation of "due process"? Why is it so important to give special rights to Mexicans and Central Americans? Is it thought they are so incompetent that applying for a visa at an American consulate is beyond their capacity? Is it a need to signal virtue?
IOW, Trump wants to simply make U-turns legal at the border.
"NYT calls for open borders and privileged legal status for border jumpers"
"NYT calls for dismantling racist 'citizen privilege'"
"NYT calls for Trump voters to be stripped of citizenship and deported"
Has anyone ever managed to hack and troll the online edition of any major newspaper?
Where are those legendary Russian hackers when you need one?
We are duly processing them.
They should be loaded on waiting C 17s and flown right back and given the address of the US Consul to apply for amnesty,
The other thread is full of leftist trolls. They have not discovered this one yet.
Fly them to Canada.
It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants.
I don't understand either. Uncontrollable immigration is incompatible with the other girls of the left -- strong safety net, universal healthcare, improving living conditions for minorities and other marginalized people.
I understand the desire for cheap labor by the large corporations. I understand the desire for cheap domestic help for the 1%. Iunderstand the desire for more Dem voters by the DNC.
OMG, Trump is denying the Constitutional rights of Mexicans, Central Americans, and other Nations' Muslims. The Muslim also lose their First Amendment rights. Trump actually is American first...Like another Andrew Jackson.
No wonder the Globalist's Task #1 has always been disarming Americans...like the 1775 raid on Lexington and Concord first revealed that brave Americans saw themselves as coming first.
"In 1996, Congress created expedited removal for undocumented immigrants without a hearing. Initially it only applied at the U.S. border. Then it was expanded to within 100 miles of a border for undocumented immigrants who had been in the country less than 14 days."
That jewel just jumped out at me with very little research. Once again it would appear Trump is throwing light on something that already exists but has been ignored.
Girls=goals. geez.
Yes, turn them away before they can cross the border. Doing this will discourage future invasions. Italy has turned away two boats loaded with 'immigrants' seeking 'asylum'. Good for them.
We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came.
Agreed. Do it.
Someone foreign to the USA, who has no physical presence in the USA, has US Constitution-based rights? Who knew?
Like Homer's donuts, apparently there's nothing that document can't do.
Why should foreigners who invade the country (illegally) get due process?
It's nice that Trump is suggesting a change.
But of course, the Judges and lawyers won't like that, BECAUSE they get to decide EVERYTHING.
But then everyone goes along with it, so why shouldn't lawyers grab the power. People want to ruled - democracy makes their head hurt.
Good to know Trump hasn't really changed his approach. Whether common sense can prevail remains to be seen.
"It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants."
Logically, you'd think they 'd have keep them out. Whatever you do, don't come to unjust unequal racist Amerikkka!
But of course all their arguments are just tools, and in this case a group of people too.
Supporting illegals exposes the meanness of mean Amerikkka, bolsters the moral superiority of humane progs, rallies Dem troops on another front in the culture war, opens the border to create a different, more lefty American population, degrades the rule of law the better to clear a path for lawless prog rule, undermines the idea that America is and deserves to be a nation, and exalts prog cosmopolitanism: no human being is illegal, don't you know?
When the out-of-control migration problem in the U.S. (and the rest of the West) finally blows up in their faces, the open-borders nutjobs will blame everyone but themselves.
Nah, who am I kidding. It won't blow up in their faces. They'll be safe and snug, come what may.
All this crap about due process for illegal aliens is designed to make it impossible to enforce the immigration laws and achieve the Left's goal of Open Borders.
Someone gets here illegally and you then require every have a 10 month trial to determine if they can be deported. Result - 95% of illegals never leave. Then you wank on about how all the illegals MUST be given Amnesty, because they've never been deported.
The Judges did the same thing on the Death Penalty - they've made it almost impossible to execute anyone by allowing endless appeals and litigation over every aspect.
Judicial Tyranny.
No, Khesanh 0802; while it is true that many due process rights are legally not afforded to foreign aliens, there are a couple of things that trigger rights to a hearing.
One is an alien’s presence on U.S. soil.
Another is an alien’s claim of refugee status. A combination of international treaty-based law, as well as attendant US law, affords some due process rights to even illegal aliens.
So no; legally speaking you were wrong to claim that there were no due process claims at stake here. I expect that a great many Trumpkins share your misconception. Because Trump himself seems to share in that misconception.
I’m not criticizing any other aspect of Trump Administration enforcement policy. This was such a stupid statement by Trump, it’ll never be any sort of policy.
AngleDyne
Apparently, on Friday, Mueller decided that the Russian hackers he indicted in February, well, never mind.
He is no longer interested in them.
He was only interested in them as long as it looked like they would stay out of his clutches in Russia.
The bastards wouldn't play. They showed up in court demanding their right to speedy trial and discovery.
Mueller's response? Hummenah, Hummenah, Hummenah and on Friday night he punted it over to the regular DOJ lawyers. They want nothing to do with this turd of an indictment
the November elections are going to be glorious.
A reminder why Due Process Rights under Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments refers to citizens of the US and not of the world:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Of course the NYT reporters probably have never had to read the Constitution.
The Judges did the same thing on the Death Penalty - they've made it almost impossible to execute anyone by allowing endless appeals and litigation over every aspect.
Someone just doesn't like the Constitutional right to due process. I'm really surprised it's one of the Trumpistas.
A test case would be to house members of ms-13 with congress members and msm reporters. Then get back to us with the documentary.
"It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants."
If you're talking about the Marxist Left - the destruction of national borders and identities has been their goal since 1848.
The moderate Left seems immigrants as political power. The sainted Immigrants vote Democrat 60-40, sometimes 70-30. The poor ones are easily led and bribed by Democrats.
California has turned from "the State of Reagan" to "Leftist Crazy-town" because of illegal and legal immigration.
The Democrats want the whole country to be California.
“It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants. If a passenger without an American visa is denied permission to board a plane for Houston at the airport in Istanbul, is that a violation of "due process"? Why is it so important to give special rights to Mexicans and Central Americans? Is it thought they are so incompetent that applying for a visa at an American consulate is beyond their capacity? Is it a need to signal virtue?”
Answer is simple. Open border immigration, esp when combined with giving illegals the vote, as was done in CA, is the only viable way that the Dems see of creating a permanent Dem ruling majority in this country. They lost working class whites in the last election. They may be losing their lock on Blacks. What do they do next year if the Republicans pick up seats in the Senate (which is demographically likely) and don’t lose the House? What do they do if the day after the election, after the Republicans cement their majority, Trump rescinds the EO that allows federal govt employees to unionize? Goodbye SEIU. ETC.
Chuck said...
I’m not criticizing any other aspect of Trump Administration enforcement policy. This was such a stupid statement by Trump, it’ll never be any sort of policy.
Oh it will be policy.
Because the vast majority of voters in the US want it to be US policy.
And we control the republican party now.
With many fewer Ryan's and McCains and other assorted GOPe traitors a, 60 senators and a strong house majority we will have an immigration policy that we actually want.
Poor Althouse.
Not only does she get Leftist trolls in her comment section.
She only gets the stupid ones.
It's all kids in cages now. Obama's kids in cages were not a problem. Now it's all emotions and virtue signalling over kids in cages. we must let everyone in and have a 100% Nancy Pelosi MS13 open borders policy.
130 politicians in Mexico have been murdered by the drug cartels. Coming soon to American. The left might not want what they think they want.
I stand corrected. Then give them a fair hearing and send them back from whence they came. Of course the courts have changed their minds before.
I've said it before here but it bears repeating. The United States government has no duty to foreigners and certainly no duty to accept them into this country when they refuse to follow our laws.
The first duty of the US government is to the citizens of this country.
Duty is the key concept here.
The Democrats want the whole country to be California.
Olde World feudalism.
So Chuck is denying the truth if this paragraph from TX Karen?
"In 1996, Congress created expedited removal for undocumented immigrants without a hearing. Initially it only applied at the U.S. border. Then it was expanded to within 100 miles of a border for undocumented immigrants who had been in the country less than 14 days."
Darkisland said...
AngleDyne
Apparently, on Friday, Mueller decided that the Russian hackers he indicted in February, well, never mind.
The company involved filed for a speedy trial on June 15th.
70 days.
August 28th will be peak leftist rage.
Mueller will be humiliated and the press has to cover it up.
Oso Negro: It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants.
"Feels so strongly" is just it. The people orchestrating the propaganda "feel strongly" about maintaining and preferably increasing the volume of the endless flow, because it is in their material interest. That is perfectly understandable. The SJW bubbleheads "feel so strongly" about it, because that's what they do, the inchoate feelz harnessed and channeled by those overseeing the propaganda. There's not really anything to understand at their end.
They'd forget about it tomorrow if a different squirrel were pointed out to them.
The front runner for President of Mexico declared it was a "human right" for Mexicans to leave Mexico and come to the US. That's a hell of a campaign issue. Leave!
This used to be an attractive blog for lawyers who were interested in Althouse’s law-blogging.
Now it is filled with comments pages like this one. A roving, raving gang of dumbfuck non-lawyer Trump fans talking about rounding up asylum applicants and putting them on cargo transport planes.
Personally, I'm impressed that the NYT could even bring itself to admit that borders were crossed illegally.
Inga you keep saying Trump is an autocrat yet he seems to be following the law as written and not ruling “with a phone and pen” like the Last Guy. Am I missing some area where due process gas actually been denied?
Envious of all that attention Inga and sakredkow are getting, Chuck?
Definitely this is the best counter to Trump’s pandering the labor in heavy industry in the “blue wall” states. We won’t help you against cheap dumped Chinese steel, but we will be happy to force down wages with lots of cheap Mexica labor! Such a deal!
"I'm really surprised it's one of the Trumpistas."
Yup, the stupid ones found this thread.
Now watch it go to 300 comments with half of them by trolls.
Darkisland:
"Apparently, on Friday, Mueller decided that the Russian hackers he indicted in February, well, never mind.
He is no longer interested in them.
He was only interested in them as long as it looked like they would stay out of his clutches in Russia.
The bastards wouldn't play. They showed up in court demanding their right to speedy trial and discovery.
Mueller's response? Hummenah, Hummenah, Hummenah and on Friday night he punted it over to the regular DOJ lawyers. They want nothing to do with this turd of an indictment"
Yes, I was waiting to see how that played out. It was funny as hell when they showed up demanding discovery.
"The dog ate my....uh, muh national security..."
Clown show.
Do you really think she will respond in any reasonable way Mike? Do you really think she will say, “You know Mike, I never thought of that!” Why give her oxygen.
Trump fans talking about rounding up asylum applicants and putting them on cargo transport planes.
For a lawyer you sure write a lot of lies. Who is advocating rounding up asylum applicants who have not broken the law?
"Trump Calls for Depriving Immigrants Who Illegally Cross Border of Due Process Rights."
Kudos to the Times for stating their position eloquently -- a position that enjoys 20 percent support among voters.
The democrats are for open borders so they can Californicate the whole country ; that is to create a permanent democrat super-majority nationwide. Its all about the acquisition and maintenance of overwhelming political power with the dem leadership; that concept dictates everything they do. They are tired of trying to trick hard working moderates into voting for them and they are going all in for this cheap fix.
I believe it is possible, that had Hillary won, the democrats might have taken the country over indefinitely.
Leave it to Chuck [Lifelong Republican] to side with illegal immigrants [lawbreakers] over immigration laws.
Instead of fighting a war against Nazis, we should have issued warrants for the arrest of each and every one of them, and read them their rights one at a time instead of shooting and bombing.
mockturtle: Hey mock, totally OT, but I was wondering if you had any recommendations re history books on feudal Japan. (Talked about in a recent thread.)
Dems have to increase their voters by importing as many illegals and other 3rd world legal immigrants as possible. Dems hate Christians white and black and they can't win their votes either so they need to import new voters. Ann Coulter has been saying this for many years - it goes back to the 1965 Immigration Act which Ted Kennedy said would not change the ethnic makeup of the country. That was a provable falsehood.
Another thing - the Dems desperately need a wedge issue, in order to have a decent chance at winning the House in November. They can scream all that they want about the crumbs that Tax Reform have given much of America, but the reality is that a lot of people are now seeing bigger paychecks. Moreover, unemployment is at its lowest level in decades, and the economy is going gang busters. The Republicans can promis more of the same. What do the Democrats have to counter that? Why vote Democrat, instead of Republican? A hard sell right now, with all Trump’s Winning!!! And all that they can propose is increasing taxes and giving amnesty to MS-13 gang members. They thought that Mueller and his Trump/Russia conspiracy theory would do the trick. Nope. It is falling apart at a very inconvenient time for the Democrats who had wet dreams of the election returning the Speaker’s gavel to Nancy Pelosi, and maybe even an impeachment of the uncooth Trump.
Instead of fighting a war against Nazis, we should have issued warrants for the arrest of each and every one of them, and read them their rights one at a time instead of shooting and bombing.
Russia defeated them when they invaded her. Seems sensible to me. Just because these people aren't armed doesn't mean it's not an invasion.
Democrats and the media used to boast about how Obama turned people away at the border.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661
Mike said...
So Chuck is denying the truth if this paragraph from TX Karen?
"In 1996, Congress created expedited removal for undocumented immigrants without a hearing. Initially it only applied at the U.S. border. Then it was expanded to within 100 miles of a border for undocumented immigrants who had been in the country less than 14 days."
No.
What I am saying is that it is not that simple. Even under “expedited removal” (which itself doesn’t answer the asylum/refugee-status claims), a DHS officer can’t order someone back to their country of origin if that illegal alien articulates a fear of physical endangerment if they are returned.
It is a much longer, more nuanced discussion of than what Trump or his supporters seem capable of.
Whatever process Congress sees fit to provide will satisfy the Due Process Clause. And illegals are not entitled to the same due process prior to being removed that applies to legal immigrants. So I think Congress, which defines the substantive rights all aliens have, can step in and direct the President to deport these people without any hearing whatsoever. But I don't see how Trump can do this on his own.
In 1996, Congress created expedited removal for undocumented immigrants without a hearing
And signed by Bill Clinton.
@ Chuck As a dumbfuck non-lawyer I poked around on the internet and found that there are, in fact, ways to return immigrants at the border immediately.
"Only “arriving aliens” (people who are attempting to enter the United States at a border or other lawful entry point and people who recently entered the United States unlawfully) may be placed into expedited removal proceedings. Before issuing an expedited removal order, an immigration officer must determine that the person is inadmissible to the United States because he or she either:
1. lied or misrepresented a material fact, including falsely claiming U.S. citizenship, in obtaining U.S. entry documents or admission, or
2. does not have a valid entry document (such as a visa or border crosser card) or travel document (such as a passport).
(From NOLO)
Michael K said...
"The other thread is full of fascist trolls.
Fixed it for you.
You're welcome.
John Henry
> It is difficult for me to understand why the left feels so strongly about supporting illegal immigrants.
What is strange about it? The left has also supported Islamic terrorism, the Soviet Union, the North Vietnamese, and whoever else happens to be in conflict with the US at any given time. The left *does not* like the US nor a large part of its citizens.
Angle-Dyne: The books I've recently read include Musashi and [just starting] Taiko. These are both historical novels [the characters are real] and some of the translations are cliche-ridden but the stories are [to me] phenomenally entertaining and informative. I also read recently, The Way of the Christian Samurai which I found personally rewarding.
When they are being held in detention they most certainly are eligible for due process. Trump wants the death penalty for drug pushers too. He loves the autocrats who he praises for their policies of denying people due process.
What a President! He’ll go down in history, but not in the way he’ll like.
"the Dems desperately need a wedge issue"
Exactly. And since the D.'s can't run against the things you mention (economic growth, tax cuts, low unemployment) then it becomes entirely about emotion and tribalism.
Expect it to get worse, much worse.
@ Chuck here are a couple more points (from the Immigration Council):
"President Trump’s January 25, 2017, executive order directs the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to dramatically expand the use of “expedited removal.”
“Expedited removal” refers to the legal authority given to even low-level immigration officers to order the deportation of some non-U.S. citizens without any of the due-process protections granted to most other people—such as the right to an attorney and to a hearing before a judge. The Illegal Immigration and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 created expedited removal, but the federal government subsequently expanded it significantly.
Asylum seekers get a break and go to court.
Apparently Trump is doing nothing more than saying let's expend the legal process of expedited removal. If the returnees don't like it, too bad because there is no appeal.
Khesanh, if you keep researching the issue, I expect that you will learn a lot, and you will find that your first post on this page is not so easy to claim, and that there is a lot more nuance to all of it.
Just as I said.
Next he'll be quartering troops in their homes.
Nice clear write-up:
"When Expedited Removal Allows Deportation Without a Hearing"
What Types of People May Be Placed in Expedited Removal Proceedings?
"Only “arriving aliens” (people who are attempting to enter the United States at a border or other lawful entry point and people who recently entered the United States unlawfully) may be placed into expedited removal proceedings."
The front runner for President of Mexico declared it was a "human right" for Mexicans to leave Mexico and come to the US. That's a hell of a campaign issue. Leave!
That's a helluva TV ad for the Repubs!
The left doesn't care about anything it cares about except working as a mindless team to be in charge.
Thanks mock! I enjoy ripping-yarn historical novels. The Way of the Christian Samurai sounds interesting. (Have you read Shusaku Endo's Silence? I have it but haven't gotten into it yet.)
I believe it is possible, that had Hillary won, the democrats might have taken the country over indefinitely.
Why not? It has worked for Labour which has a chestless Tory Party that rolls over for every leftist issue.
England is now located in the southern triangle between Cornwall and Southhampton southeast.
The rest is "Britain" and is run by Muslims and Dole seekers. London and the Thames Estuary is still the business center but people only work there.
They move south when they can.
...And, Khesanh, when you post a comment that Trump is “apparently” saying something, you are unwittingly calling out the problem. It is that you have to put a favorable spin on Trump’s unclear and legally-faulty statements for them to be passable.
Tracey Ullman had some thoughts on immigrants.
Angle-Dyne: No, I haven't but thanks for the tip. BTW, I also recently re-read Shogun which, though only loosely historical, is nonetheless very enjoyable. My daughter gave me the TV series, as well, which was extremely well done.
Yes, I like 'ripping yarns', too, and Musashi is about as ripping a yarn as you will find. ;-)
recommendations re history books on feudal Japan. (Talked about in a recent thread.)
Clavell's two books on Japan are very well researched. Shogun is actually based on a true story.
The true story is "Five Foreigners in Japan," and is the basis of Shogun.
In the true story, the Englishman got home to England and was the basis of the alliance between England and Japan that lasted until the 1920s. Elizabeth I sent a fleet to Japan to train the Shogun's navy.
I used to have the book and the one review on Amazon is by me. I don't know what happened to my copy in my moves the past few years.
Maybe Congress ought to take back some it’s power by passing a bill to fix the mess. Naw, it’s more fun to cry and whine and blame someone who has been in office for 18 months vs their 28 plus years in Congress.
Chuck
You do know that every capital city in Central America has an embassy and in each of those embassies there is a staff dedicated to receiving and processing applications for asylum? Only in every single capital city in Central America. And not one of them is 1800 dangerous miles from any city, village or Puebla in any of those countries.
Don't forget that Sessions just issued an order that fear of private violence (domestic violence and gang violence) cannot be the basis for an asylum claim.
Michael, chuck is determined to prove that Trump and his voters are stupid and the Congressional GOP is the real fount of policy.
It doesn't matter what the evidence says.
You know what they say about lawyers pounding the table ?
The left want to live in a funny country. Per the left, men who are accused of rape on campus have no rights to due process (as in ZERO), but non-citizens who are are caught red-handed entering the country not at a legal point of entry, are, per the left, possess some sort of right to due process.
"This used to be an attractive blog for lawyers who were interested in Althouse’s law-blogging."
And Ann Althouse a Law Professor!
Don't like the Blog - Leave.
Start your own blog. Call it "Chuck's Serious Lawyer Blog".
Oh, that's right. No one would read it. Never mind.
We [the US] should let it be known that, if central American countries can't keep their citizens from mass exodus we may just have to take control of their governments. As it is, the drug cartels have more power than the local governments and possibly more than the President. I'm not an interventionist but the failures of these nations are a direct threat to our security. Probably more so than Afghanistan.
The tide must be turned. It’s an Obama-level task, but you can bet your last dollar that the Dems will come around to that view. They’re just trying to get in power first.
All of James Clavell's novels of Asia are well worth the time to read. Shogun and Tai Pan are my favorites. Have y'all read his "King Rat"? It's ... interesting.
A federal court somewhere in the 9th Circuit will do Trump and the Republican Party a big favor by issuing an injunction blocking border enforcement and deportations countrywide. It is only a matter of time.
"The books I've recently read include Musashi and [just starting] Taiko."
I echo Mockturtle, these are astounding books. Musashi especially, one of my favorite books of all time and is really a cultural treasure for Japan, so it gives insight not only to the history but also Japanese self-understanding. Taiko is also very good, though not quite as engaging. Musashi is on my short list of regular re-reads.
I read Shogun years before reading these, and liked it, but Shogun is definitely written for a Western audience, including the romance and such. It does give some interesting commentary on the impact of Christianity in Japan, and the ways Christian division caused both massive persecution and ultimately a massive decline in Christian presence in Japan. Which then brings the discussion to Shusako Endo.
Shusako Endo is worthwhile, with Silence being an amazing, albeit it very difficult, book to read. He has a few others out there.
You mean treat them just like Canadians?
Warning: Don't start reading Shogun unless you have the time to devote to it. It's impossible to put down.
People like Chuck are the Problem.
The Judiciary wasn't meant to run immigration policy. And its one of three branches of Government & its not the most important one.
Congress and the POTUS have let the Judges run wild & take power that isn't theirs. Read the Constitution, there is no "Congress and the POTUS must follow every Lower Court Diktat"
Everything EXCEPT the Supreme Court is a CREATION of Congress. And their jurisdiction is the CREATION of Congress.
Q. Why have these turds come to this punchbowl?
A. Because this is very fine punchbowl.
And no-one likes a turd in their punchbowl, right?
Angry SJWs are here for the duration.
Pity.
Regime change. Nation building.
Don’t forget, what’s going on in other countries is what the voters wanted.
Socialism for the 21st century!
It’ll work this time!
Yep, Murph, I've read all of those. Interesting that a character from King Rat [Peter Marlowe] appeared later in Tai Pan.
Clavell's characters don't seem as real to me as, say, those in Musashi. But he knows how to build an interesting plot.
I liked Noble House a great deal- it was the first Clavell novel (it came as two books as I remember) that I ever read- this would have been around 1982 or so. I did eventually get around to reading King Rat and Tai-Pan, but didn't like them nearly as much. As for Shogun, I had already seen the television mini-series by the time I discovered his novels, so never read it.
I didn't like "King Rat" - "Shogun" is a better TV series than a book.
Mueller's response? Hummenah, Hummenah, Hummenah and on Friday night he punted it over to the regular DOJ lawyers. They want nothing to do with this turd of an indictment"
How can he do that? I thought DOJ was too conflicted and that is why there is a special prosecutor. If DOJ lawyers can handle the Russia interference in the election indictments what is the point of Mueller?
We have spaces in GTMO available.
mock & Michael K: Thanks for the recs. I've never read Shogun but I'll check it out now. I remember watching the series on TV way back when, but remember very little. I'll check that out, too.
I assume Musashi is about Miyamoto Musashi? (Sorry if that's a dumb question.)
tcrosse: thanks for the warning!
Paddy O - and thanks for the further commentary. Just a few pages into Silence and I can see that I will probably come to agree with your description of "difficult".
How about the UN?
Anyone have a sight to read about Mueller punting on the Russian indictments. That seems to be a huge story if true.
I remember watching the series on TV way back when, but remember very little.
A former partner was married to a Japanese -American girl whose mother spoke fluent Japanese. She loved the TV series as the dialogue was in Japanese.
@Chuck All you wanted to know about asylum/refugees in 2016.
The total of defensive asylum seekers - illegal immigrants who seek asylum when they get here, not the entire universe of illegal immigrants - increased 43% to 65218 in 2016 keeping on that slope there would have been 95,000 in 2017 and expect about 136,000 in 2018. Not a problem to be ignored. The best I could figure only about 10% actually are granted asylum. So it would seem to make more sense to send them back without incurring the expense and hassle of storing them going to court and then sending them back.
Like it or not, Chuck, I - as I think the Founders did - have more concern for the welfare of the citizens of the US than the non-citizens. I agree with Trump. Use expedited removal and avoid all the whining and crying about due process.
Is that subtle enough for you, you horse's ass?
Rcocean hits the nail on the head: People like Chuck are the Problem.
Yes!!! The leftists dogs may bark at the caravan but the GOP has been leading the caravan for the better part of a decade and are leading it over a cliff. If the GOP loses seats this November it's not a referendum on Trump. It's the do-nothing Congress.
If DOJ lawyers can handle the Russia interference in the election indictments what is the point of Mueller?
I think it is SDNY lawyers who are suitably leftist.
Ok how about petitioning to become a territory?
I assume Musashi is about Miyamoto Musashi?
Yes.
Didn’t Obama’s administration run ads come to America in central and/or South America?
ShoGun -Hi!
Loved it.
@Chuck - "What I am saying is that it is not that simple. Even under “expedited removal” (which itself doesn’t answer the asylum/refugee-status claims), a DHS officer can’t order someone back to their country of origin if that illegal alien articulates a fear of physical endangerment if they are returned.
So in theory, every child in Mexico, every single one, could walk to the border crossing and articulate a fear of physical endangerment if they are returned. We would be forced to keep them because "law".
They should do it! It's ingenious. Every Mexican child can secure American legal privileges at one fell stroke and Trump can be proven most emphatically to be exactly like Hitler.
Bill ROT I don't think he has punted yet, but here's one point of view.
I've read all of those. Interesting that a character from King Rat [Peter Marlowe] appeared later in Tai Pan.
I think Marlowe, Clavell's alter ego, was in Noble House and King Rat. Tai pan was about China in the 1850s and the founding of Hong Kong. The company described is based on Jardine Matheson, which has moved its headquarters from Hong Kong since China took over in 1997.
Via Insty
CBS News poll June 21-22 AFTER peak of family separation crisis:
Dem advantage *down* to four points on generic ballot.https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByV
They do not HAVE due process rights. I like it.
Leave it to Chuck [Lifelong Republican] to side with illegal immigrants [lawbreakers] over immigration laws.
Are they not refugees fleeing poverty and strife in their home country? If you had learned the Spanish language and Latin culture in your long ago youth, then maybe you wouldn't be so hostile toward these unfortunate & struggling people. Where is your Christian compassion? Or are you a Christian only for salvation from your sins. I'm sorry, but you have too many sins to get to heaven. I have that from on high. I'm in daily communication with the Almighty via Twitter. You follow Roseanne's Twitter no doubt. We are our brothers' keeper except for dirty, dusty poor Mexicans. They're all rapists and drug dealers even the toddlers. There's a gang of them stealing diapers from white babies and Walmart. Unless you're a Native American, you're ancestors likely came here for reasons similar to theirs. Nazi soldiers would toss Jewish babies in the air and bayonet them for fun. Do you secretly admire the Nazis? Maybe you hate those babies because they are uncircumcised. A petty, small-minded person like you would come up with some excuse to hate them, jail them, tattoo them, then come up with a Final Solution to the problem. Maybe, your church and congregation will help them because you most certainly won't.
A federal court somewhere in the 9th Circuit will do Trump and the Republican Party a big favor by issuing an injunction blocking border enforcement and deportations countrywide. It is only a matter of time.
Only if the powers that be order it.
Have y'all read his "King Rat"? It's ... interesting.
It's autobiographical if you didn't know, but you probably do.
Clavell was a young aircraftsman in Singapore in 1941. Captured and "King Rat" is the story.
@Chuck Trump is doing nothing more than saying let's expand the legal process of expedited removal. Better?
I said: If the returnees don't like it, too bad because there is no appeal.
Trump has all kinds of legal feet to stand on. I once again reference " The Illegal Immigration and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 ".
Since they are not citizens they have no "due process rights" under our Constitution.
And not under anyone else's constitution either.
I think Marlowe, Clavell's alter ego, was in Noble House and King Rat.
Yes, you are right. It was Noble House. Mea Culpa.
Maybe talking about books works on trolls like garlic on vampires. They seem to have all gone back to the other thread, except poor crazy trumpit.
@ Trumpit - Is there no limit to what you think our compassion should be? Should the children of the ENTIRE world have a right to live in the United States at taxpayer expense? How about you round up a junior street gang from the South Side of Chicago, bus them down to the border and see if the Mexicans feel like housing them at public expense?
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Tracey Ullman had some thoughts on immigrants.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
But she didn't have a fucking clue about ILLEGAL immigrants did she, when she thought she cornered the fake Melania as an immigrant objecting to immigration.
Sack o' shit, ARM, you're a sack o' shit.
Oso, there's no point treating Trumpit as if he is a rational human being.
Must'nt the Mexican paper--the NYT--recuse themselves from this debate?
Angle-Dyne: If you've never read Shogun, do so immediately! ;-)
Thanks Khesanh
We'll see what that adding of prosecutors mean. Maybe he is getting ready to issue his report and go away.
But I see in my FB all the leftists are getting themselves over a comment Sen. Warner made that people would be stunned if he told them what he and Mueller know about Trump.
My FB feed is hoping for indictments Monday!
My FB feed is hoping for indictments Monday!
Hope springs eternal in the leftist breast.
a comment Sen. Warner made that people would be stunned if he told them what he and Mueller know about Trump.
It looks like Warner is trying to protect the identities of the FBI/CIA spies they planted on Trump and the administration.
He might have a point if the FBI had not been leaking like Noah's ask with a hole in it.
Via Rantburg
Stephanie Wilkinson, a co-owner of a restaurant who refused to serve Press Secretary Sarah Sanders on Friday reportedly cited morality and living up to "certain standards” as the reason why is now under fire. The Historic Downtown Lexington Virginia Facebook page has a poll up asking "Should Stephanie Wilkinson of Main Street Lexington be able to keep her position as Director?" and it appear to be unanimous that Wilkinson should step down. As of this writing, 95% call for the Red Hen owner to step down as Director of Main Street Lexington.
Historic Downtown Lexington FB page also apologized.
I was sure that it was only yesterday that we were all talking about how terribly funny Tracey Ullman was. It's so difficult to keep up these days.
A Scott Johnson/Thomas Lifson recap of the Mueller v 13 Russians case:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/06/mueller-mulls-it-over.php
"A roving, raving gang of dumbfuck non-lawyer Trump fans talking about rounding up asylum applicants and putting them on cargo transport planes."
Says the dumbfuck dog bite lawyer.
If the GOP loses seats this November it's not a referendum on Trump. It's the do-nothing Congress.
Boy, you have that right! Every time I see mumbling Turkey-neck McConnell or "dead-eyes" Ryan on TV, i think, there goes another 100,000 votes.
We had that clown Corker demanding Congress get involved in Trade negotiations and setting tariffs. This from a bunch of lazy idiots, who can't even pass a budget on time, or approve the POTUS' appointments!
I firmly believe Mueller will pull an "October surprise" to help the Democrats.
I don't think he has anything on Trump - but he'll come up with something, even if he has bring up Stormy Daniels.
They will get all process that is due illegal aliens.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
I was sure that it was only yesterday that we were all talking about how terribly funny Tracey Ullman was. It's so difficult to keep up these days.
It would be confusing to an idiot.
rcocean said...
I firmly believe Mueller will pull an "October surprise" to help the Democrats.
I don't think he has anything on Trump - but he'll come up with something, even if he has bring up Stormy Daniels.
He wont have that long.
August 28th he has to put up or shut up in court.
The nation finds out that day that he indicted companies and people that never existed.
Just in time.
That will be peak rage day for the media and the left.
Matthew 25:35 ESV
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Michael K
Excellent observation re books and lefties. They do seem to go silent when the topic of books comes up. We will have to watch this going forward. Could be useful.
We do. And medicine . Lots of free stuff. We also gave them electricity and telecommunications.
Then there’s that whole life liberty pursuit of happiness and unalienable rights thingy from documents over 100 years old.
"Since they are not citizens they have no 'due process rights' under our Constitution."
Wrong.
I would say the New York Times summation is pretty accurate.
You can't put people "back where they came from" until you establish that they are actually here illegally and don't have a valid asylum claim.
Trump's phrase "When somebody comes in" is ridiculously open-ended. Trump apologists may wish to read it in his favor as "when somebody who may be a non-citizen who can't prove they are here legally is found by law enforcement in a fishy circumstance, then ..."
But then what? Are the ICE agents on the ground supposed to decide, immediately whether someone is in the country illegally and then decide immediately where they are supposed to go back to?
Bruce Hayden:
This week SCOTUS should decide the big compelled speech case regarding union dues. The Democrat party will be hit hard. Watch them scream. And just in time for November 2018.
Thanks for the link Robert Cook. I am arguing logistics, but the Constitution, too, is against Trump.
"Someone foreign to the USA, who has no physical presence in the USA, has US Constitution-based rights?"
Non-citizens not physically present in the US do not have Constitutional rights...unless they are detained by US authority, (as is the case with the prisoners sent to Gitmo...and unauthorized immigrants in US detention). Gitmo was an attempt to get around due process requirements by the Bush/Cheney administration, who were either ignorant of the Constitution or believed they could flout it without pushback. In the case of torture, they were correct in this; however, the Supreme Court ruled that the prisoners at Gitmo, being held under US authority, did have due process rights.
Too bad the Congress doesn't work for the people.
Lawyers for the globalists have worked up a loophole and have exploited it.
Sucks to have no representation.
People who want to be "Refugees" - another BS bunch of nonsense that has been expanded and perverted to achieve "open borders" can apply for that status at selected points on the USA border.
All the peeps being apprehended - have decided NOT To go to those Centers or "Checkpoints".
Further, no other country in the WORLD - acts like US. We are laughing stock. Mexico and Israel have strict immigration laws, break them and you are OUTTA THERE.
Only the USA has this weird death-wish powered by Big Business Greed and Democrat drive for political power.
Matthew 25:35 ESV
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
I was an invader and you kicked my ass and sent me back to where I came from.
Overlooked scripture.
"Judicial Tyranny."
Constitutional Tyranny.
Henry it's pretty easy to determine their status when illegal immigrants are caught avoiding ports of call and captured after their coyote's dump them from an abandoned van in the desert. I don't think people caught under this circumstance are worthy of tying up our court system with lengthy appeals or foot dragging, when their intent is pretty obvious. I'll help you out. Here is an easy system to understand:
1.)Enters at port of call or embassy=Process to weigh merits of asylum
2.)Caught after jumping out of 1977 Chevy panel trunk 10 miles from the border=Automatic deportation.
If we don't let them cross the border in the first place they have no rights. Asylum should be an individual case-by-case situation, not herds of people blatantly disregarding the law because they know they can get away with it by claiming they are seeking asylum. It's like a flash mob.
We are laughing stock.
Naw, they're happy for us.
It wasn't always this way. The USA had actual, enforceable immigration laws from 1914-1975.
Ike returned all Mexican Illegals to Mexico in the early 50s. "Operation Wetback" It was so non-controversial, its rarely mentioned in the History books and no one objected at the time.
Build a wall and they will have trouble coming over the border, which is messy. It would discourage many from making the dangerous trip with kids in tow. They will be directed to points of entry if they decide to make the journey.
I have an idea! Let's build a wall!
"Why should foreigners who invade the country (illegally) get due process?"
Hey, talk to James Madison: "James Madison, the fourth president of the United States, wrote: 'that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage.'" (Not to mention the court decisions going back over 100 years that confirm it.)
"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me."
Goodbye everyone. I'm off to Israel or maybe Mexico for a free lunch and a warm welcome. Or maybe I'll just show up at one of John McCain's empty 10 houses.
Anyway, I'll bring my bible with me just in case.
I'll just show 'em the right bible passage - and I'm in.
Anyway, I thought we were NOT a "Christian Country"
Bringing up Jesus is unconstitutional and racist.
So no more Jesus quotes on USA immigration policy.
Unless you hate non-Christians and the US Constitution.
I was an invader and you kicked my ass and sent me back to where I came from.
Overlooked scripture.
Somewhere in Joshua, I expect.
@Robert Cook, of course they have rights. We wouldn't torture them or shoot them. But their rights don't include staying in the country. If they arrived illegally, there is nothing wrong with removing them.
@Yancey,
"A federal court somewhere in the 9th Circuit will do Trump and the Republican Party a big favor by issuing an injunction blocking border enforcement and deportations countrywide. It is only a matter of time."
Another reason to support Trump. His judicial picks have been excellent. The Dems have slow-walked many of the nominations, but progress has been good.
Adding 2-3 more GOP Senate seats in Nov will accelerate this process of revamping the federal judiciary.
I am so sick of the leftists pandering to the CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ALIENS at the expense of the American Citizen. Just where do the leftists think that all the money to support these alien leeches comes from? Welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, public housing, schooling and on and on and on? Clue. From the people who are losing their jobs, getting lower pay due to the influx of illegals working under the table and double dipping on the welfare benefits.
I have just one thing to say
400 million guns
2.)Caught after jumping out of 1977 Chevy panel trunk 10 miles from the border=Automatic deportation.
Sounds like no due process to me.
A couple of things. First, the 5th Amendment is not limited to citizens; it provides that no "PERSON [not no citizen] . . . shall . . . be . . . deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". OF COURSE. You wouldn't think that the Feds could accuse some poor schlepp of murder and execute him without trial if he's a non-citizen.
But OF COURSE that doesn't mean that the US is Constitutionally required to grant a due-process trial to anyone who appears at the border and asks to come in -- and certainly not to anyone who is caught trying to sneak into the country.
I'm not an expert in this area (but that doesn't stop others from expressing their opinions, so here goes). From what I read, the biggest delay problem is that when someone who is caught sneaking into the country makes a demand for asylum, then our laws and regulations require a hearing to determine whether he/she is entitled to asylum. Adjudicating that demand takes time. The asylum applicant could be held in custody during that adjudication process. But if the asylum applicant arrived with children, then what do we do with the children while that adjudication proceeds? [Imagine at this point in my comment that you hear the cries of young children who are being held pending their parents' hearings.]
To be honest with you, I think it is awful that children have to be put into such a situation. So here's my proposed solution. Amend the regulations and/or statutes to provide that NO ASYLUM APPLICATION will be entertained unless made to (a) a US embassy or consulate in the applicant's home country, or (b) an official US point of entry at the border. People who try to sneak across the border and get caught would not be allowed to claim asylum. So, if you sincerely think/hope you are entitled to asylum, present yourself and make your request. But if you try to sneak across and get caught, then you promptly get sent home.
With the kids you brought with you.
What's wrong with that?
"If a passenger without an American visa is denied permission to board a plane for Houston at the airport in Istanbul, is that a violation of due process?"
No, because a passenger at an airport in Istanbul is not on American territory or under US authority.
'that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage.'
Illegal immigrants are not being obedient, so they are not entitled to Constitutional protections and advantages.
If they don't give what they owe, they aren't entitled to anything.
If you're all about the law, you'll need to overturn the Refugee Act of 1980 before you can unconditionally deport undocumented people who wish to apply for asylum.
@The Godfather
Ha ha ha ha!
The Congress is going to do anything?
Godfather suggests: To be honest with you, I think it is awful that children have to be put into such a situation. So here's my proposed solution. Amend the regulations and/or statutes to provide that NO ASYLUM APPLICATION will be entertained unless made to (a) a US embassy or consulate in the applicant's home country, or (b) an official US point of entry at the border. People who try to sneak across the border and get caught would not be allowed to claim asylum. So, if you sincerely think/hope you are entitled to asylum, present yourself and make your request. But if you try to sneak across and get caught, then you promptly get sent home.
With the kids you brought with you.
I like it! Formal applications through the State Department. That's how former Soviet Russian emigrants I know did it. And it wasn't handled overnight but it gave them time to learn to be fluent in English.
Ike returned all Mexican Illegals to Mexico in the early 50s. "Operation Wetback" It was so non-controversial, its rarely mentioned in the History books and no one objected at the time.
In those days the Mexican government used to beg the US government to deport illegal immigrants. There were too many villages were all the young men were in the US and there was no one left to do the work except the elderly, women and children. Then the Mexican government figured out that if they sent the women and children to the U.S. also it solved the problem and got rid of poor people no one wanted to support. Then when remittances kicked in, the Mexican government began encouraging illegal immigration.
Trump gets elected largely based upon his stance against illegal immigration.
So what does the left do? Keep fighting him on his turf.
He is truly blessed by his enemies.
It's always interesting to hear the discussions around illegal immigration - what can and can't be done.
Yes, there are rulings regarding asylum seekers, but no one is saying someone asking for asylum while standing in the embassy of their own country should not be granted a fair hearing.
They're saying that jumping the line and then claiming asylum is unfair. Which it is.
What people don't seem to understand is that while in the short run we have the laws we have, in the long run we can change anything we like. Judges and Congress make the law, and Judges and Congress backed by the people can make new ones.
Right now closing the border is polling 2:1 in favor. But what of the Constitution?
Could an army from, say, China invade the US and claim asylum status? Would we be prohibited from expelling the invasion force because we'd be trampling their Constitutional rights to assemble their armies in the US?
Everyone should know that's untrue. So hey, there are times when you're standing on US soil and you won't get Constitutional protections.
What if Trump gets enough support for this idea and declares a national emergency and martial law?
There are many ways this can play out, and "you don't understand the law" doesn't play into most of them.
First the NYT was upset the kids were let out of their parents' cages.
Then they were upset the kids were going to be put back in their parent's cages.
Now they seem ready to scream bloody murder because the parents won't be put into cages either.
"the Supreme Court ruled that the prisoners at Gitmo, being held under US authority, did have due process rights."
The questions was if illegals had any "Constitution-based" rights. To my knowledge, no provision of the Constitution says that anyone entering the country illegally has the right to due process.
Of course, we have creative courts that can fabricate any number of things--Plyler v. Doe being one of the most egregious examples.
A roving, raving gang of dumbfuck non-lawyer Trump fans
One might call them deplorables.....
We have an amnesty loophole courtesy of communist lawyers working with chamber of commerce lawyers - It's a travesty.
The 5th Amendment says "no person shall . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." My reading says once a person is inside the country, whether here legally or illegally, the 5th Amendment applies. If that were not the case, we could do away with jury trials for illegal aliens accused of crimes, including murder, illegal re-entry after deportation and so on.
"Vietnam should have given the invading Americans due process, and not just shoot at them, or slit their throats in titty bars."
Two differences:
1. Vietnam does not have America's Constitution or Bill of Rights;
2. Our soldiers were there killing Vietnamese; the illegal immigrants just want to be our gardeners, maids, crop-pickers, and handy-men.
Thanks @ Mockturtle, good to know.
Regarding James Clavell's novels: I know nothing much about Japanese or Chinese history, but I know a good yarn when I read it, and most of Clavell's novels are good yarns. As has been pointed out above, King Rat was based on Clavell's experience as a prisoner of the Japs in WWII, and it's really a good yarn (they made a movie of it, with George Segal, which I haven't seen). Shogun is my favorite of his novels, and PLEASE don't pass up the novel because you've seen Young Dr. Kildare (Richard Chamberlain) in the the TV movie. Tai-Pan and Noble House are very good about the old and (then) more recent Hong Kong -- if I had a time machine I'd travel to 1960's Hong Kong -- but I don't have to because Clavell wrote the book. Whirlwind is set in Iran just before the fall of the Shah, and it's pretty punk; this wasn't Clavell's world. His last novel was Gai-Jin, set in Japan in the 1860's when the Western Imperialists were opening the country up. It could have been a good novel, but I think Clavell was dying when he wrote it and it didn't really hang together very well. BUT READ THE GOOD NOVELS AND ENJOY!
"Our soldiers were there killing Vietnamese; the illegal immigrants just want to be our gardeners, maids, crop-pickers, and handy-men."
Tell it to the Angel Moms.
There are rules by international conventions for qualifying for asylum. Few of the aliens arriving at our borders qualify.
George Ferko said...
The 5th Amendment says "no person shall . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." My reading says once a person is inside the country, whether here legally or illegally, the 5th Amendment applies. If that were not the case, we could do away with jury trials for illegal aliens accused of crimes, including murder, illegal re-entry after deportation and so on.
Guess it is time for a wall then.
There are 600,000 people entering the US illegally this year.
There are 1,500 slots for refugees from Latin America and the Caribbean.
it's not going to take long to get to 1,500 and then hearing further claims is a waste of everyone's time and the taxpayer's money.
the illegal immigrants just want to be our gardeners, maids, crop-pickers, and handy-men
We can accommodate that. Guest worker program, no path to citizenship. Problem solved, right? Just get the Dems to agree and we can pass a bill.
"The questions was if illegals had any "Constitution-based" rights. To my knowledge, no provision of the Constitution says that anyone entering the country illegally has the right to due process."
Wherever in the Constitution where it discusses constitutional rights a and says "person" it means all persons, not just US citizens, who are in US territory or under US authority. Where it refers only to citizens, it says "citizen."
Read the article I linked to, or do your own research. It's not hard to find.
the illegal immigrants just want to be our gardeners, maids, crop-pickers, and handy-men.
There used to be a crop-picker program, but the Mexican government stole their money.
There’s the outline for migrant workers.
Remember when Obama separated 72,000 parents from kids in 2013
Good times... good times...
I am so glad leftists are making immigration an issue.
But it wont last.
They will forget about immigration soon.
They know what the polls say.
Khesanh 0802 said...
@Chuck Trump is doing nothing more than saying let's expand the legal process of expedited removal. Better?
I said: If the returnees don't like it, too bad because there is no appeal.
Trump has all kinds of legal feet to stand on. I once again reference " The Illegal Immigration and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 ".
There are lots of intelligent things that Trump could have said, in support of a tougher enforcement of expedited removal, if indeed that is what he was Tweeting about. But as usual, Trump didn't say anything about expedited removal, or anything else resembling a sensible legal discussion. Again, what Trump Tweeted: "When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came..."
Don't mix up my complaint about Trump's clumsy and oafish tweeting with what you might think about my policy preferences.
As usual, I am talking about Trump's stupid messaging. And the Althouse Trumpkins can think of nothing better than to claim that I am for open borders, when in fact I am to the right of most Congressional Republicans on most immigration issues.
"Didn’t Obama’s administration run ads come to America in central and/or South America?"
Boy Howdy, they sure did!
Which is odd, given how many illegal immigrants Obama had deported!
Oy vey!!
Long ago and far away... "Complete the danged fence", was said by someone running for reelection in Arizona.
It's like they say one thing to get elected... and then take the opposite stance once back at the trough.
That's politics!
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"If a passenger without an American visa is denied permission to board a plane for Houston at the airport in Istanbul, is that a violation of due process?"
No, because a passenger at an airport in Istanbul is not on American territory or under US authority.
What if they get in the plane with proper documentation, then whoops! Somehow 30,000 feet above in an enclosed tin can they can’t find them?
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