Scott Adams loves that weird video Trump's people made for Kim Jong-Un.
Here's the video:
Mainstream media is less enthusiastic than Scott Adams. See, for example, "The Sensational Idiocy of Donald Trump’s Propaganda Video for Kim Jong Un" (The New Yorker).
One difference is that Scott Adams is cool with propaganda and he's simply analyzing how good it is as propaganda. Others are appalled by propaganda (when, for whatever reason, they are triggered to regard something as propaganda).
If the intended target of the propaganda knows he's looking at propaganda, then how can the propaganda work? If Kim is the intended target, it might fail because he'll think they're insulting my intelligence to imagine that I will be swayed by such obvious propaganda.
But it's possible that something more subtle was intended. For example, maybe the idea was for Kim to recognize that it's frankly propagandistic and to enjoy it because he is hip to it, to appreciate the American corniness of it, and to feel in on a shared joke about something monumentally serious.
Or, maybe the target isn't Kim at all but the American media, and they are being lured into mocking and disparaging Trump, which will ultimately help Trump, as the American people will watch the video and be taken by the optimism the elites find appalling.
ADDED: Writing the last line of this post, I thought of the line associated with Robert F. Kennedy, "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?"
I say "associated" because:
Though Kennedy stated that he was quoting George Bernard Shaw when he said this, he is often thought to have originated the expression, which actually paraphrases a line delivered by the Serpent in Shaw's play Back To Methuselah: “You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’". This phrase was first used by his brother John F. Kennedy in 1963 (June 28th), during his visit to Ireland, in his address to the Irish Dail (Government): "George Bernard Shaw, speaking as an Irishman, summed up an approach to life, 'Other people, he said, see things and say why? But I dream things that never were and I say, why not?"... Robert's other brother Edward famously quoted it (paraphrasing it even further), to conclude his eulogy to his late brother after his assassination (8 June 1968): "Some men see things as they are and say why? I dream things that never were and say why not?"AND: The Serpent?! Maybe we should read this play. I've never read the whole thing, but here's the whole text. Let's get some context for that quote. As you've already guessed, we're in the Garden of Eden:
THE SERPENT. Death is not an unhappy thing when you have learnt how to conquer it.
EVE. How can I conquer it?
THE SERPENT. By another thing, called birth.
EVE. What? [_Trying to pronounce it_] B-birth?
THE SERPENT. Yes, birth.
EVE. What is birth?
THE SERPENT. The serpent never dies. Some day you shall see me come out of this beautiful skin, a new snake with a new and lovelier skin. That is birth.
EVE. I have seen that. It is wonderful.
THE SERPENT. If I can do that, what can I not do? I tell you I am very subtle. When you and Adam talk, I hear you say 'Why?' Always 'Why?' You see things; and you say 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' I made the word dead to describe my old skin that I cast when I am renewed. I call that renewal being born.
EVE. Born is a beautiful word.
THE SERPENT. Why not be born again and again as I am, new and beautiful every time?
EVE. I! It does not happen: that is why.
THE SERPENT. That is how; but it is not why. Why not?
EVE. But I should not like it. It would be nice to be new again; but my old skin would lie on the ground looking just like me; and Adam would see it shrivel up and--
THE SERPENT. No. He need not. There is a second birth.
EVE. A second birth?
THE SERPENT. Listen. I will tell you a great secret. I am very subtle; and I have thought and thought and thought. And I am very wilful, and must have what I want; and I have willed and willed and willed. And I have eaten strange things: stones and apples that you are afraid to eat.
EVE. You dared!
THE SERPENT. I dared everything. And at last I found a way of gathering together a part of the life in my body--
EVE. What is the life?
THE SERPENT. That which makes the difference between the dead fawn and the live one.
EVE. What a beautiful word! And what a wonderful thing! Life is the loveliest of all the new words.
THE SERPENT. Yes: it was by meditating on Life that I gained the power to do miracles.
EVE. Miracles? Another new word.
THE SERPENT. A miracle is an impossible thing that is nevertheless possible. Something that never could happen, and yet does happen.
EVE. Tell me some miracle that you have done....
THE SERPENT. I gathered a part of the life in my body, and shut it into a tiny white case made of the stones I had eaten.
EVE. And what good was that?
THE SERPENT. I shewed the little case to the sun, and left it in its warmth. And it burst; and a little snake came out; and it became bigger and bigger from day to day until it was as big as I. That was the second birth.
EVE. Oh! That is too wonderful. It stirs inside me. It hurts.
THE SERPENT. It nearly tore me asunder. Yet I am alive, and can burst my skin and renew myself as before. Soon there will be as many snakes in Eden as there are scales on my body. Then death will not matter: this snake and that snake will die; but the snakes will live.
EVE. But the rest of us will die sooner or later, like the fawn. And then there will be nothing but snakes, snakes, snakes everywhere.
THE SERPENT. That must not be. I worship you, Eve. I must have something to worship. Something quite different to myself, like you. There must be something greater than the snake.
EVE. Yes: it must not be. Adam must not perish. You are very subtle: tell me what to do.
THE SERPENT. Think. Will. Eat the dust. Lick the white stone: bite the
apple you dread. The sun will give life....
Posts
298 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 298 of 298Inga: 'How could Obama’s meeting with Raul Castro at the Summit of the America’s have been criticized, while Trump’s summit with Kim jong Un is lauded?"
Because obama gave the Castros all the tangible things they wanted and demanded NOTHING from the Castros in return.
Just like the Iran deal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-obama-administration-extends-the-castro-regime-in-cuba-a-bailout-it-doesnt-deserve/2014/12/17/a25a15d4-860c-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html?utm_term=.ab190c69059d
"n Wednesday, the Castros suddenly obtained a comprehensive bailout — from the Obama administration. President Obama granted the regime everything on its wish list that was within his power to grant; a full lifting of the trade embargo requires congressional action. Full diplomatic relations will be established, Cuba’s place on the list of terrorism sponsors reviewed and restrictions lifted on U.S. investment and most travel to Cuba. That liberalization will provide Havana with a fresh source of desperately needed hard currency and eliminate U.S. leverage for political reforms."
No wonder Yoani Sánchez, Cuba’s leading dissident blogger, concluded Wednesday that “Castroism has won” and predicted that for weeks Cubans will have to endure proclamations by the government that it is the “winner of its ultimate battle.”
Inga: "but I am extremely honest in these threads..."
Let's try again:
Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?
Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?
Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?
Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?
Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?
Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?
Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.
Man-made global warming. It’s a good thing those volcanoes erupted!
“Inga ignores what’s going on in colleges around the country with Western Civ...”
No, Inga thinks you’ve been sucked in by rightist propaganda.
It should be noted as well that obama gave the Castro regime all that it wanted and NEVER bothered addressing Human Rights.
And then obama went to a baseball game and partied like it was 1999 with Raoul, even doing the wave with him along with the rest of the obama family.
Number of lefty complaints: zero.
Inga: 'No, Inga thinks you’ve been sucked in by rightist propaganda."
My links have been to the Stanford University paper and the Washington Post.
Try again.
puts Moving our embassy to Jerusalem in a different light, doesn’t it?
Bold moves. Or just American? The Revolutionary War was a bold move. Or he’s just doing something instead of stable which is stagnating.
'Visualize World Peace'
I'm surprised the TDS crowd missed this comparison:
"...the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."
Only in Inga’s world is quoting what’s actually been said by lefties “rightist propaganda.” And watching the fallout from said statements.
Seeing Red: "Bold moves. Or just American?"
Proud American moves...which the lefties/LLR's hate.
But our people know in their hearts and guts is the right thing to do.
Number of democrat members of congress at the unveiling of the US embassy in Jerusalem? Zero.
It's a two-for PR film selling diplomacy and future Trump real estate ventures in NK, nothing wrong with that.
Inga asks: How could Obama’s meeting with Raul Castro at the Summit of the America’s have been criticized, while Trump’s summit with Kim jong Un is lauded?
That's a fair question which I can partially answer. The anti-Castro policies are largely driven by the Cuban population in Florida. They have enormous power in Congress and have strong lobbyists [or some would even say, 'strong-arm' lobbyists]. Most of the GOP just fell in line.
Don't get me started on Cuba and how we could have handled the Batista overthrow to our advantage instead of screwing it up like we did, giving a Soviet foothold in our front yard.
It’s not world peace, it’s stability for a time. Or we hope the new normal. Bwaaaaaa.
r/v: "It's a two-for PR film selling diplomacy and future Trump real estate ventures in NK, nothing wrong with that."
Oh, you're back with that one again.
As I said yesterday when you said it the first time, that's literally all you've got.
And for republicans, that's awfully good news.
FullMoon said...
...Kim is third generation, in the shadow of his ancestors, who are like gods in NK. Kim will end up eclipsing them if he brings NK out of the dark ages.
Kim like the Ted Kennedy of the brothers, never measures up to the legend.
Perhaps the fact that Kim Jong-Un is third-generation (and chronologically, more like fourth-generation, since he was 42 years younger than his father) means that he's less hide-bound ideologically than Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il were and we might be able to deal with him.
A little family history: Kim Il-Sung was born in 1912, fought the Japanese in World War II, and founded the Kim dynasty during the Korean War. He was the unchallenged ruler of the country until his death in 1994. Committed ideological communist.
Kim Jong-Il was born in 1941 in the Soviet Union. He was an impressionable tween during the Korean War (1950-53) and it had to be hugely important to the formation of his world view. Also a committed ideological communist. He ruled the country from his father's death in 1994 until his own death in 2011.
Kim Jong-Un was born in 1983, which means that the collapse of the Soviet Union happened while he was in elementary school, and that the Chinese economic liberalization under Deng Xiaoping was already underway when he was born. Went to school in Switzerland, so he's seen the outside world before. He's also probably seen that communism has gone from the inevitable wave of the future ("We will bury you!) to an historical footnote outside of certain benighted islands and peninsulas. I doubt that he's ideologically dedicated to much more than his own personal prosperity and survival, unlike his predecessors, and so we might be able to come to an agreement that benefits both sides, ends the nuclear threat and improves the lives of North Koreans.
Inga now officially thinks the Stanford Univ newspaper and the Washington Post represent "rightist propaganda".
Perhaps a quick timeout to allow Inga to let us know which other lefty publications have also become "rightist" would be in order here.....
Please note, those to whom it might apply: A prolonged, contentious pas de deux tends to ruin a thread.
mockturtle: "Please note, those to whom it might apply: A prolonged, contentious pas de deux tends to ruin a thread."
2 things: I was told there would be no French or Latin until after the cocktail hour and, point taken.
Btw, there might have been embassies in Jerusalem before everything heated up.
Now, the question becomes, if good stuff is happening, would it be wise to overturn the election? Since stability is of the utmost importance, impeachment would be chaos and we can’t have that, can we?
Next stop, the Palestinian issue?
Since this thread seems to be devoted to emptying words of all meaning, I'll follow up with two points and sign off.
“hey hey ho ho Western Civ has got to go" is a reference to a particular protest of some 20 years ago.
" said every lefty everywhere....” is a hasty generalization.
It isn't propaganda in any cultural or historical sense of the word.
It is awesome watching the lefties turn into hardcore warmongers.
Not hostility really. I'm just in a mood after the last few days of media idiocy you provide a, uh, target rich environment. I know I shouldn't, but just can't help myself. I'll stop now. Sorry.
I am younger than The Professor and have never heard that quote associated with RFK. It's always been tied to Shaw for me.
20? That’s been the 60s boomers goal since the 60s in their life cycle. The long march....
The leftists need to run with this all of the way through November.
Keep that Korean War alive.
Which will be the first honest democrat to threaten Kin with Ghadafi's fate if Kim gives up his nuclear program?
Henry: "...is a hasty generalization."
Point of personal privilege: there was nothing hasty about it. Though one is fair to point out that there are number of liberals (not leftists) who lament the s***-canning of Western Civ education and call for the restoration of those courses.
Of course, given the makeup of most major university faculties today, it is not clear at all that any revived Western Civ courses would be anything but another venue in marxist/identity political indoctrination. In fact, given the political party makeup of most faculties, I'd argue it's guaranteed.
Note that Inga does not have the courage to simply admit that obama never bothered to submit the Iran give-away to the US Senate for review and approval in their advise and consent role and that Trump has already committed to that.
Ann,
Thanks for posting that excerpt from Shaw's play.
I did not know it was the Serpent, generally known as a a liar (or "malign propagandist" perhaps) that uttered that "Kennedy" phrase.
Most interesting part of this post, but generating the fewest comments.
Too much analyzing and not enough skeptical common sense.
First as noted above, this was a meeting to start towards a goal, not the deal in of itself.
Second we gave up nothing for now but did gain NK's attention for them to really consider an alternative future for themselves on terms that are vastly different than any previous offers.
Third the sales pitch in the video is brilliant in its not so veiled crudeness, so showman-like. Trump as Monty Hall : door number one you and your regime get to live long, rich lives. Door number two and you get the Romanian treatment.
Will it work? Too soon to tell. But so far we haven't given NK one hundred and fifty billion bucks on a deal that doesn't guarantee permanent cessation of a nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons delivery systems while giving that regime access to markets and capital and credit.
Mockturtle Please note, those to whom it might apply: A prolonged, contentious pas de deux tends to ruin a thread.
It is extremely tedious and boring as well.
“Because obama gave the Castros all the tangible things they wanted and demanded NOTHING from the Castros in return.”
Nonsense. And propagandistic.
1. Obama lifted the embargo which is a good thing for Cuban Americans.
2. Human Rights abuses were discussed and exposed and changes were demanded.
3. A joint venture for Starwood Hotels
4. Cooperation between the US and Cuban agricultural ministries on inspection of traded goods.
The most important of course is normalizing the relationship with the last dictatorship in the Western Hemisphere, so at some point in the future the people of Cuba will demand their own democracy and THAT is a huge plus for the US, considering Cuba is a mere 90 miles off of the coast of Florida.
" You see things as they are and you say no?"
Drago said...
Note that Inga does not have the courage to simply admit that obama never bothered to submit the Iran give-away to the US Senate for review and approval in their advise and consent role and that Trump has already committed to that.
The Iran deal was treason.
From top to bottom.
If Obama was a foreign agent trying to undermine the United States what exactly would he have done differently?
Right now Trump is having to make pledges that he will ensure the next democrat president does not have Kim killed if Kim gives up his nukes.
And democrats wanted Hillary to be president.
Disgusting people.
Simple, Inga.
What was the US going to gain from the meetings with Cuba? Is that worth the prestige/acceptance being bestowed on an extreme human rights violator like that nation?
Now ask that question about North Korea.
Achilles: "Which will be the first honest democrat to threaten Kin with Ghadafi's fate if Kim gives up his nuclear program?"
Once Pompeo and Bolton complete the deal development and it is submitted to the Senate for review, if that is before the election and the deal looks to be something the American people want and support, I would imagine the entire dem caucus will go public with comments designed to make KJU think he will be sacrificed. All in order to scuttle the deal.
After posting a list of everything the castro's wanted (as if it were a list of what helped the US), Inga hits us with this:
Inga: "The most important of course is normalizing the relationship with the last dictatorship in the Western Hemisphere...."
LOL
Inga doesn't think there are any other dictators in the Western Hemisphere.
Literally.
What an absolute parody.
Inga said...
Nonsense. And propagandistic.
1. Obama lifted the embargo which is a good thing for Cuban Americans.
2. Human Rights abuses were discussed and exposed and changes were demanded.
3. A joint venture for Starwood Hotels
4. Cooperation between the US and Cuban agricultural ministries on inspection of traded goods.
The most important of course is normalizing the relationship with the last dictatorship in the Western Hemisphere, so at some point in the future the people of Cuba will demand their own democracy and THAT is a huge plus for the US, considering Cuba is a mere 90 miles off of the coast of Florida.
So Cuba got everything they wanted, an Obama crony got a sweet deal on a hotel, and absolutely nothing else happened.
Only someone that hates the US thinks this was a good deal.
The reasons Trump is so much more popular than Obama are obvious.
Blogger Drago said...
Inga now officially thinks the Stanford Univ newspaper and the Washington Post represent "rightist propaganda".
Drago, I'm glad you are entertained by this butting of intelligence against the stone wall of ignorance.
I used to have an idea of "Passive Ignorance and Active Ignorance."
Passive ignorance is capable of being educated.
The other, as we see here, is not. It is approaching Ritmo levels of stupidity.
I can't watch,
Kim is failing to resist.
Inga and all the democrats will be calling for Kim's death if Kim gives up his nukes.
The democrat party makes clear every day it's true enemies are the Americans who want freedom and want people around the world to enjoy the same freedom we do.
“Simple, Inga.
What was the US going to gain from the meetings with Cuba? Is that worth the prestige/acceptance being bestowed on an extreme human rights violator like that nation?
Now ask that question about North Korea.”
Do people forget that the SSSR at one time had missles pointed at America placed in Cuba? Isn’t normalizing relations with Cuba a really really good way of preventing that from ever happening again?
“Inga and all the democrats will be calling for Kim's death if Kim gives up his nukes.”
Now this is not propaganda, it’s simple nuttery.
2 things: I was told there would be no French or Latin until after the cocktail hour
Wow, Drago! I guess I didn't get the memo. Pardon my French. ;-) Are we talking about the eastern time zone cocktail hour or the one here in the west?
It didn’t take long for Drago to lapse into the rapid fire propaganda mode and Achilles never leaves the nuttery mode.
LOL.
inga view the Daily Show's exposure of Hannity's hypocrisy about which enemies the right wing thinks our leaders can meet. Because there are few details that emerged from this summit both sides can claim this is a step forward towards peace on their terms, but how it will untangle remains to be seen.
Full moon
Agree about Adams vids being too long.
They work very well as audio only podcasts
I use podcatche which auto downloads all his podcast headers and descriptions.
I then download the interesting one.
John Henry
"Propaganda is manipulative, do we want to be manipulated or do we want to hear the unvarnished truth and decide for ourselves if the idea is a worthy one?"
An ancient dispute on rhetoric.
In Aristotles Rhetoric, this is the very point of Book 1, Part 1
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/rhetoric.1.i.html
The whole thing is worth reading (yes, Aristotles Rhetoric could be a semester course on its own). And I confess I haven't read the whole thing. Dip into it and you will find all sorts of familiar tricks.
Something that deserves consideration is today's Trump tweet stating that "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."
Easy enough to pass off as just more of Trump's bombast, but would he make that statement if he wasn't pretty sure of it? Insider info?
Roeschvoltaire,
Normalizing relations with countries like North Korea and Cuba are the best way to keep everyone safer. But when dictatorships have nukes, we aren’t truly safe as Trump proudly proclaimed. By normalizing and opening uprelationships, there is a change that these countries can in future become some sort of democracy. I said yesterday and say today that I do give Trump credit for pulling off this Summit and I’d just for once, like to see less hypocrisy when it comes to giving Obama credit.
I’ll watch that Daily Show segment, thanks for the tip.
Chance, not change.
"there is a change that these countries can in future become some sort of democracy."
Why do they have to be democracies?
All they need to be is non-hostile.
Obama trades five, hardened terrorists for one deserter and you leftists are bitching about Trump's deal making?
You might want to shut up for a bit and see how it turns out.
Do people forget that the SSSR at one time had missles pointed at America placed in Cuba? Isn’t normalizing relations with Cuba a really really good way of preventing that from ever happening again?
In 1962. Fifty six years ago.
And the USSR is no longer in existence.
Good gawd. Give it up.
” I said yesterday and say today that I do give Trump credit for pulling off this Summit and I’d just for once, like to see less hypocrisy when it comes to giving Obama credit.”
Credit for what? You don’t get credit for making a bad deal.
David Begley said, "Why didn't Obama or Hillary do something like this?"
Because, like most politicians, all they have to sell is the Steak; that is, themselves.
A good salesperson sells the Sizzle. Trump is a good salesperson.
“In 1962. Fifty six years ago.
And the USSR is no longer in existence.”
I predicted some dummy would say these very words.LOL. How retarded does a gnat have to be not to realize that there are other dictatorahips with nukes that could do the very same thing the SSSR did in Cuba if we once again had a very hot relationship with Cuba?
Jesus, you really are not much of a thinker, are you? Lordie, was was just way too easy.
”How retarded does a gnat have to be not to realize that there are other dictatorahips with nukes that could do the very same thing the SSSR did in Cuba if we once again had a very hot relationship with Cuba?”
Like who?
“Credit for what? You don’t get credit for making a bad deal.”
That is partisanship talking. Same old boring nonsense.
”That is partisanship talking.”
No, it’s not. I would have loved a solid treaty with either Iran or Cuba (especially Iran).
Just make it CCCP, Inga. Don't go for half-measures!
The Christian Science Monitor editorial, making the same point I was on about the last few days - on the symbolic value of this thing, in North Korea.
CS Monitor - A summit that may pop fear
I wish "The Marmots Hole" blog was still around - an excellent South Korea blog with several contributors and links to NK experts.
And, as above, the Asian press seems uniformly positive, upbeat. They have no axe to grind re US politics.
Compare and contrast. I’ve read more than once that we —the US— disappointed Obama because we are too small.
It seems they’re saying He needs a bigger venue like the UN.
The Donald is a big personality with big goals. He just might be taking on the world.
We are the original rogue nation, and sometimes only a rogue gets things moving.
So Inga, what did Sycophant Ben Rhodes have to say about the Iran deal?
"How could Obama’s meeting with Raul Castro at the Summit of the America’s have been criticized, while Trump’s summit with Kim jong Un is lauded?"
What did Cuba give up?
Plus. Cuba is mostly irrelevant.
The thing is we have no right to control the leadership of other countries. That is where neocon nation building comes in. We need to deal with other nations based on our national interest. Realpolitik. No permanent alliances only permanent interests.
North Korea has nukes. It threatens Japan and South Korea two of our vassal states. But there is an opportunity. They can industrialize as others have said in the China Model. They can greatly increase their standard of living and make millions for the Korea Mafia. Just as they did for the Russian mafia after the fall of the Soviet Union. The God Emperor knows how to deal with the Mafia. He dealt with them all the time to get concrete and towels for the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. They just have to get their cut. They will give up something to get it. The nukes are expendable if they don't think we will launch a mission to decapitate their leadership. You know. Nation build in the Neo Con manner.
Little Rocket Man is the worst guy in the world. Just like Saddam was back in the day. The Neocons and Inga and Lady Graham want to depose him. Doesn't matter how many people might die.
Hopefully Little Rocket Man is smart enough to make the deal now. When he has someone who wants to make a deal. Instead of a sanctimonious tool like Jimmy Carter or Obama. Nobody cares about a bunch of gooks eating grass sandwiches. If he makes the deal they will be eating Big Macs soon enough. Everybody will make money. Inga's imaginary daughter can vacation on China Beach and pretend she looks like Dana Delaney instead of Dana Elcar.
Everybody wins. That's why it infuriates the progressives. Because they are losers. Every time.
“So Inga, what did Sycophant Ben Rhodes have to say about the Iran deal?”
Why should I care what any sycophant says? Nor should you. They should be dismissed, maybe they should be seen as propagandistic.
We had OK relations with Cuba before Fidel. That Nut actually wanted to fire the damn things and the commies knew then they had a minor problem on their hands. Then Kennedy gave the store away. It’s like the 70s all over again. the commies are back docking their ships and you think signatures on a paper would stop what exactly?
But they signed a treaty! Did Barrys deal cover them pulling out their “doctors” from certain other countries?
As far as Cuba goes there is nothing there we need. We have plenty of beaners already with all the Mexicans. We need to sort out MS-13 before we have another Mariel boat lift. We have reached our quota of Hispanic criminals.
It seems every tourist who goes to Cuba gets robbed. It is worse than Jamaica if that is possible. There are plenty of Caribbean shit hole countries with great beaches. Let the commies in Cuba rot.
Beaaaaaaa it’s Ben Rhodes!
“Cuba is mostly irrelevant.”
No dictatorship 90 miles of the coast of Florida is irrelevant.
Inga said, "...I do give Trump credit for pulling off this Summit and I’d just for once, like to see less hypocrisy when it comes to giving Obama credit.”
Inga, on Cuba I gave Obama credit for lifting the embargo, allowing travel, and so on. Should have been done long ago. But, I thought he was ridiculously gushy about Cuba, which is kind of a you-know-what-hole country, certainly its politics. If he had just done it quietly without fanfare, it would have been sensible, appropriate policy.
Trump is doing something very, very different here.
The actual problem with Cuba is they got rid of the Mafia. Meyer Lanksy and Moe Dalitz had the whole joint under control. If Fidel had only worked with them it would have been better than Vegas.
Instead he throws them out and they ended up driving 57 Buick's and eating rice and beans for fifty years.
Russia learned that lesson. They got rid of the communists and turned their country over to the Mafia. Increased the standard of living for the ordinary people. Brought back their religion. Allowed people to leave if they wanted. Joined the community of the kleptocracy that is the modern world.
Cuba is behind the times. They need to bring the Mafia back. Or build their own.
South China Morning Post
Typical take in Asian papers -
The South China Morning Post is a Hong Kong paper, the NYT of the old East Asian English language press, and slightly pro-Chinese regime these days but trying to sound like its old British-era self.
I wish the old Far East Economic Review were still around. It was another mainstay of the Hong Kong press, much like the Economist, but the writers for FEER were not blinded by academicism, they knew everyone, went places and talked to real people that mattered, however raffish. That was brilliant. I pretty much grew up on that (explains a lot, no?). I used to swipe it out of my dads briefcase.
Eating cold rice and beans. Fidel’s —scratch that — socialism’s generosity a few years ago gave them new pots. Fuel to heat said pots for said warm food, however....
RealCuba.com it might still exist. You can take a walk thru a socialist paradise.
As far as Cuba goes there is nothing there we need.
The Cuban middle class left. One was a partner of mine. His parents sent him ahead to relatives in Florida and then could not get out. He spent a couple of years in an orphanage before they escaped. He was in school in Cuba and remembers it well.
When he applied to UC San Francisco to medical school. he waited for weeks to hear something and finally drove up there to ask. The admissions office told him his application was in the "Hispanic Committee."
He asked if they could just classify him as "white." He was accepted a week or two later. God knows what would have happened if his application had been considered with all the AA candidates. He had probably not marched in enough LA Raza demonstrations or something.
UC Irvine is probably the hardest UC campus to get into if you are choosing a STEM major. It is right next to the Vietnamese section of Orange County and competition is fierce.
What is left in Cuba are the remains who could not escape and probably could not make it if they did.
The kids can live at home and commute to school.
They can just turn the country into a baseball camp. Baseball players and cigars are just about the only things they have in that shit hole that is worth a damn.
Otherwise we don't need them. The Dominican and Puerto Rico fills the quota for us. They can stay home in Cuba and leave us alone.
America needs to turn to Asia and pay attention to that. We don't care about the beaners to the South. Otherwise why would we let Venezuela turn into Thunderdome. They don't have anything we really need. Venezuela has oil but with fracking that doesn't matter anymore. So we just need to close our borders to wetbacks and concentrate on opening markets in Asia. There are a bunch of consumers there we can exploit. Their mafia is already in place and will be easy to deal with.
Win/win.
Iran matters. North Korea matters. Cuba, not so much.
An interesting article on Comey contrasted with Freeh.
But to Freeh’s dismay, when he reported his findings to Clinton’s team in the West Wing situation room, the meeting devolved into a discussion of how to cover the findings up. “I thought that we were meeting to discuss what our next move would be, given the fact that we now had solid evidence that Iranians, with involvement at the highest official levels, had blown up nineteen Americans. But I was wrong. The meeting started with how to deal with the press and with Congress, should news of the Iranian involvement in the Khobar murders leak out of the room. … In the eight years I was to spend as FBI director, there was nothing to match that moment in the situation room for sheer disappointment.”
Clinton was as bad on Iran as Obama was.
The video and the "concessions" Trump made are not only intended for Kim. He is a dictator and a demi-god to most of his people but his hold on authority is not absolute.
The other target is the military and political leadership that exists below Kim. The military men you often see around Kim may look silly in the big hats, but look closer and you'll see some hard-assed motherfuckers. They have a say too, and Kim will need time and help to bring them along.
Even Hirohito had to put down multiple military rebellions and yield to Tojo on occasion - and he was a God-God to the Japanese. No demi with that boy.
The other target is the military and political leadership that exists below Kim. The military men you often see around Kim may look silly in the big hats, but look closer and you'll see some hard-assed motherfuckers. They have a say too, and Kim will need time and help to bring them along.
Yep. I imagine they are all pretty well off. Not gonna be real excited about losing power and influence. Need to make them wealthy partners in the new order.
Even if he's after something and you know it, it still helps you both when your husband tells you "you look incredibly hot tonight". Are you really gonna say: "Cut the propaganda, asshole. Do you think I'm an idiot?"
In other words, Trump did it becuase it works.
If he was negotiating with Obama, he'd call him "The Lightworker". That is after sending him a video of Trump shooting hoops and actually making some.
In English, or at least American English, propaganda has a negative connotation. In other some other languages it just means advertising. I guess that can have a negative connotation too, but it's not as extreme.
Re: Rabel:
Even Hirohito had to put down multiple military rebellions and yield to Tojo on occasion - and he was a God-God to the Japanese. No demi with that boy.
There were a lot of rebellions in the early Showa period. March incident (1931), Imperial Colours incident (1931), League of Blood (1932), May 15 incident (1932), the Military Academy incident (1934), and the February 26 incident. But none of these were really directed against the power of the Emperor. They were instead directed against the civilian government, with a view to "restoring" the Emperor. The exception is the Sakuradamon incident (1932), in which a Korean terrorist tried to assassinate the Emperor, but succeeded in killing no one. But that's kind of different.
I'm not sure when the Emperor had to yield to Tojo. Tojo was only PM from October 1941 to July 1944, when the Emperor dismissed him following the disaster at Saipan, and replaced him with Koiso. I know he was a focus of our propaganda, and we tried to make him out to be the Japanese equivalent of Hitler, but he really wasn't. He was installed as PM during a cabinet reshuffle, won a huge majority in the 1942 elections (thanks in part to the government pressuring most of the mainstream parties to coalesce into the Imperial Rule Assistance Association and probably the Doolittle Raid shortly before the voting), and went peaceably when the Emperor dismissed him. Is there a particular incident you are thinking of?
Nasty man, G. B. Shaw; he actually defended Stalin's mass killings.
That Trump/Korea video looked and sounded like it was photographed from a TV screen - here's a far better quality video.
Inga said...
“Inga and all the democrats will be calling for Kim's death if Kim gives up his nukes.”
Now this is not propaganda, it’s simple nuttery.
You guys already killed Ghadafi.
You just don't want to admit I am right.
Democrats/neocons will kill Kim the first chance they get if he makes a deal with Trump.
Lydia: "Nasty man, G. B. Shaw; he actually defended Stalin's mass killings."
Leftists defended the Show Trials as well. Knowing full well what a sham they were but then leftists long ago accepted the "can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" philosophy on the way to establishing their next utopia on Earth: See Venezuela/Nicaragua/Cuba.
BTW, earlier in this very thread, Inga asserted Cuba was the last dictatorship in the western hemisphere...LOL
I guess Venezuela and Nicaragua no longer qualify because lefty-philosophy-destruction-political murder-mass exodus.
Inga,
The short version is that we had obsolete Jupiter (?) nuke missiles in Turkey near the Russian border.
The Russians wanted them removed.
We had planned to do so until they demanded it. Jfk and Bobby were scared removing them would look like a cave to the Russians. Jfk was more scared of looking weak than anything.
Russians put missiles in Cuba to pressure us.
After much Drama and possibility of mistake, we both removed our missiles.
That's pretty condensed but the long version is really interesting and does not reflect well on team Kennedy
John Henry
Re JFK:
I've always seen Obama as our times JFK (Kennedy, not Kerry)
I do not mean that as a compliment.
President Trump is no Jack Kennedy and thank God for that.
I am a fan of the Obama presidency for what it appeared to be (really was?) It showed us the utter failure of big, progressive/fascist government. I still don't know whether this was on purpose on Obama's part and care not even a little bit.
Purpose or incompetence, the end result is the same. I did not see DJT coming but I did see someone (never had any idea who) coming who would do what President Trump is doing to MAGA.
Thank you Barack Obama.
John Henry
Balfegor,
I think there was also an attempted coup on the palace by a group of young Japanese army officers after the surrender but before the formal ceremony.
John Henry
One big subtext of the video that people seem to be missing is "disarm, be friendly and we'll make you rich." You can't say that directly at the negotiating table, but you can "say" it a propaganda video. Funny thing is, it's not propaganda; Kim Jung-Un really can turn his country into North Korea, Inc. (Even better, this prevents the problems of refugees flooding the south.) The downside, from Kim's perspective, is that he may not survive this. Of course, at the rate things are going, he's not going to survive much longer anyway. On the other hand, if enough people in the power structure get the message, it may not matter.
You guys already killed Ghadafi.
Sodomy and abortion. They like to torture the lives they deem unworthy (younger boys and girls from around one month). Our ambassador and other Americans were sacrificed to safeguard the Libya-ISIS Affair, which was weakly denied with a complicit press and video ruse. I guess Egypt was no longer a viable option after the Western-backed terrorists were removed from power.
So, Libyans suffered under anthropogenic climate change, ISIS got the weapons, France got the oil, and Italy got CAIR (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Immigration Reform) and the survivors from the modern-day trail of tears.
This is not the video that the North Koreans were shown. They were shown a version where the voiceover was done in Korean. Now it may be that more work was done on the Korean text, and the English version is a slapdash translation. Who can say whether the level of hyperbole is the same.
The mainstream media is appalled by propaganda???? That's a good one.
"No dictatorship 90 miles of the coast of Florida is irrelevant."
Then why didn't Obama demand the release of political prisoners as a condition of recognition?
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