June 13, 2018

"It might be the best thing that anyone ever did in a negotiation... in the history of the world."



Scott Adams loves that weird video Trump's people made for Kim Jong-Un.

Here's the video:



Mainstream media is less enthusiastic than Scott Adams. See, for example, "The Sensational Idiocy of Donald Trump’s Propaganda Video for Kim Jong Un" (The New Yorker).

One difference is that Scott Adams is cool with propaganda and he's simply analyzing how good it is as propaganda. Others are appalled by propaganda (when, for whatever reason, they are triggered to regard something as propaganda).

If the intended target of the propaganda knows he's looking at propaganda, then how can the propaganda work? If Kim is the intended target, it might fail because he'll think they're insulting my intelligence to imagine that I will be swayed by such obvious propaganda.

But it's possible that something more subtle was intended. For example, maybe the idea was for Kim to recognize that it's frankly propagandistic and to enjoy it because he is hip to it, to appreciate the American corniness of it, and to feel in on a shared joke about something monumentally serious.

Or, maybe the target isn't Kim at all but the American media, and they are being lured into mocking and disparaging Trump, which will ultimately help Trump, as the American people will watch the video and be taken by the optimism the elites find appalling.

ADDED: Writing the last line of this post, I thought of the line associated with Robert F. Kennedy, "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?"

I say "associated" because:
Though Kennedy stated that he was quoting George Bernard Shaw when he said this, he is often thought to have originated the expression, which actually paraphrases a line delivered by the Serpent in Shaw's play Back To Methuselah: “You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’". This phrase was first used by his brother John F. Kennedy in 1963 (June 28th), during his visit to Ireland, in his address to the Irish Dail (Government): "George Bernard Shaw, speaking as an Irishman, summed up an approach to life, 'Other people, he said, see things and say why? But I dream things that never were and I say, why not?"...  Robert's other brother Edward famously quoted it (paraphrasing it even further), to conclude his eulogy to his late brother after his assassination (8 June 1968): "Some men see things as they are and say why? I dream things that never were and say why not?"
AND: The Serpent?! Maybe we should read this play. I've never read the whole thing, but here's the whole text. Let's get some context for that quote. As you've already guessed, we're in the Garden of Eden:

THE SERPENT. Death is not an unhappy thing when you have learnt how to conquer it.

EVE. How can I conquer it?

THE SERPENT. By another thing, called birth.

EVE. What? [_Trying to pronounce it_] B-birth?

THE SERPENT. Yes, birth.

EVE. What is birth?

THE SERPENT. The serpent never dies. Some day you shall see me come out of this beautiful skin, a new snake with a new and lovelier skin. That is birth.

EVE. I have seen that. It is wonderful.

THE SERPENT. If I can do that, what can I not do? I tell you I am very subtle. When you and Adam talk, I hear you say 'Why?' Always 'Why?' You see things; and you say 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' I made the word dead to describe my old skin that I cast when I am renewed. I call that renewal being born.

EVE. Born is a beautiful word.

THE SERPENT. Why not be born again and again as I am, new and beautiful every time?

EVE. I! It does not happen: that is why.

THE SERPENT. That is how; but it is not why. Why not?

EVE. But I should not like it. It would be nice to be new again; but my old skin would lie on the ground looking just like me; and Adam would see it shrivel up and--

THE SERPENT. No. He need not. There is a second birth.

EVE. A second birth?

THE SERPENT. Listen. I will tell you a great secret. I am very subtle; and I have thought and thought and thought. And I am very wilful, and must have what I want; and I have willed and willed and willed. And I have eaten strange things: stones and apples that you are afraid to eat.

EVE. You dared!

THE SERPENT. I dared everything. And at last I found a way of gathering together a part of the life in my body--

EVE. What is the life?

THE SERPENT. That which makes the difference between the dead fawn and the live one.

EVE. What a beautiful word! And what a wonderful thing! Life is the loveliest of all the new words.

THE SERPENT. Yes: it was by meditating on Life that I gained the power to do miracles.

EVE. Miracles? Another new word.

THE SERPENT. A miracle is an impossible thing that is nevertheless possible. Something that never could happen, and yet does happen.

EVE. Tell me some miracle that you have done....

THE SERPENT. I gathered a part of the life in my body, and shut it into a tiny white case made of the stones I had eaten.

EVE. And what good was that?

THE SERPENT. I shewed the little case to the sun, and left it in its warmth. And it burst; and a little snake came out; and it became bigger and bigger from day to day until it was as big as I. That was the second birth.

EVE. Oh! That is too wonderful. It stirs inside me. It hurts.

THE SERPENT. It nearly tore me asunder. Yet I am alive, and can burst my skin and renew myself as before. Soon there will be as many snakes in Eden as there are scales on my body. Then death will not matter: this snake and that snake will die; but the snakes will live.

EVE. But the rest of us will die sooner or later, like the fawn. And then there will be nothing but snakes, snakes, snakes everywhere.

THE SERPENT. That must not be. I worship you, Eve. I must have something to worship. Something quite different to myself, like you. There must be something greater than the snake.

EVE. Yes: it must not be. Adam must not perish. You are very subtle: tell me what to do.

THE SERPENT. Think. Will. Eat the dust. Lick the white stone: bite the
apple you dread. The sun will give life....

301 comments:

1 – 200 of 301   Newer›   Newest»
rhhardin said...

Scott Adams distinguishes propaganda aimed at something good from other propaganda, as to its moral value.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended.

rhhardin said...

Everything the NYT writes is propaganda. Fortunately they're not good at it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

It is interesting watching the right wing media deal with Trump's 'summit'. They are notably lukewarm (not FOX, of course).

rehajm said...

video Trump's people made

Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay?

Ralph L said...

All it needed was Obi-un Kenobi.

buwaya said...

The best propaganda works on multiple levels, for very different audiences with a different implied message for each.

Some kids movies do a good job for instance, in amusing the kiddies and their parents too, with different layers of implication. And sometimes even the critics.

But then with kiddie movies its clear, at least, what was meant for the kiddies and what was meant for the patents. And for that matter who are the kiddies and who the parents.

Quaestor said...

Wasted Codger wrote: We all know how that ended.

Apparently, "all" doesn't include ARM.

Jeff Brokaw said...

When it's Scott Adams vs. mainstream media coverage and punditry, I've learned to go with Adams.

His record of being right, and even predicting the future accurately based on his "eyes wide open" approach to how human behavior actually works, is nearly unassailable.

The court jesters in the media get nearly everything wrong, nearly every time.

mockturtle said...

The Sensational Idiocy of the New Yorker Magazine. While I didn't watch the entire video [I don't have unlimited high speed internet], I was struck by the brilliance of the still photo showing Kim as appearing taller than Trump.

Luke Lea said...

It's a propaganda war! Between Trump and the mainstream media I mean.

rhhardin said...

I'm Trump's audience only for the sly insults of the explaining class.

traditionalguy said...

That was Pompeo's message too. It comes down to only two people in a room to decide the fate of the world. And one of them is The Emperor Trump.

OK, that is hyperbole. But it sure makes the Bush Family's Deep Staters and EU's Germany First guys mad. They are irrelevant now. And Trump's Army rolls on.

Shouting Thomas said...

Among my many multimedia jobs, I often produced these types of videos.

Gay guys flooded into the multimedia biz in the 90s with a number of ideas that seemed very shocking at the time:

1. The nature of the product or idea being sold doesn't really matter
2. Keep the viewer engaged with a new image every 2 or 3 seconds
3. Flatter the hell out of your viewer
4. Emotionally compelling music with the proper rhythm drives the viewer into a sort of spell
5. Laugh at yourself for playing with the viewer, and let the viewer know you're conscious that you're playing with him

These ideas are so dominant now that they seem SOP. Here, Trump made Kim a star in a great movie. Kim, I understand, is a huge fan of U.S. pop culture.

I do mean to single out gay men for this because the design agencies in NYC that initiated this scheme were entirely gay. In fact, they wouldn't hire straight men. These ideas seeped out into the general corporate world and as the dot-com era died, those gay men fanned out into the corporate world at large.

rhhardin said...

What Trump has to consider, on Kim's behalf, is what Kim has to consider, namely how to avoid violence from the NK people Kim is paying off to avoid violence.

They need the payoffs to continue, or at least to stop for some other reason than Kim shutting them off.

Some other upside has to be in view for them as well.

It can't turn into a democracy until everybody's died off.

rhhardin said...

I loved CNN's take
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkip1DvCDOQ

Home on the deranged.

rehajm said...

In a world...


In a world where lefties want to kill themselves because things are going sooo well....

Bob Boyd said...

The movie didn't even talk about transgender bathrooms.

David Begley said...

I disagree with Ann here and agree with Adams that the video is great. It is not propaganda at all. I think it should win the Academy Award for best short.

History is evolving. The past doesn't need to be the future. You, Kim, can be a hero to your people. You are one of the great figures in history if you only take advantage of this opportunity.

Brilliant.

And the dictator in China told Kim that he could be really rich by exploiting his low wage workforce. Apple iphones will be built in North Korea in 5 years. Better margins all around. Something like 30% of North Korea's tiny GDP is now spent on the military. This thing could turn fast.



Bob Boyd said...

Trump could meet with leaders of the black community in America and show them the same video.

tcrosse said...

The etymology of 'Propaganda' is interesting. It comes from the Latin for 'propagation', as in ‘congregation for propagation of the faith’ "

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

I'm inclined to give Trump the benefit of the doubt against his critics, but as a lukewarm friend I would say he is extremely comfortable with what might seem to be vulgarity and crassness. (Maybe not f-bombs? Maybe he's too much of a gentleman to talk like De Niro?). Selling condos on the beach in North Korea, suggesting that there is not likely any downside to reproducing Miami Beach all over the world. Not everyone would think of this. Like his use of Twitter--unusually comfortable, for someone his age, with media that can have an immediate impact. Middle class people, even after the 60s, honesty and all that, somehow think all of this is not very nice. Maybe the embarrassing grandfather who made the money can talk and act like this, but not the younger generations who are spending it. And presidents are expected to act more like the latter.

Peter said...

“It can't turn into a democracy until everybody's died off.” @rhhardin
The model is China, not democracy.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

The leftwing machine - they are furious when they are not in charge of the propaganda.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Alternative theory: Kim's supposed to look at this and think, "This is not much different from the sort of thing I'd have my people put out. This guy's a lot like me; I can get along with him."

DKWalser said...

Sure, the movie was propaganda. So what? I've sat through hundreds sales pitches and delivered hundreds during my business career. All could have been dismissed as 'propaganda'. Of course, they weren't because sales pitches are expected to be persuasively make a case. We dismiss mass entertainment that preaches rather than entertains as propaganda because we were misled -- promised one thing (entertainment) and got another (a political message).

That's NOT a problem with a sales pitch that's advertised as a sales pitch. We might take offense if it's too heavy handed, just as we might be left bewildered by a commercial that fails to mention the product its supposedly selling. But, we won't be offended by the crass commercial nature of a commercial.

Nor should we be offended that Trump tried to 'sell' Kim on the idea North Korea would be better off without its nukes. That was Trump's entire purpose of going to the summit! Of course any prepared materials Trump brought with him would reinforce that message! Only fools, such as those who work in our media evidently, would have expected anything different.

Darrell said...

Is there a video where the Left disappears--sort of a commie rapture (Crapture?)

n.n said...

He's normalizing Kim. One of the guys. We did that before with daisies to great effect.

dreams said...

When Althouse first started writing about Scott Adams, I was initially resistant but it's hard to dislike someone who likes Trump and makes a lot of good points. I'm still not as impressed as he is of himself, but almost.

madAsHell said...

"You can be great!! Like me!! I'll show you how!!"

-- Trump, the magnificent Bastard!!

Karen said...

Ann Althouse: Thanks for the transcript. This makes it very clear that the Serpent is a master of creating the image of Utopia- things that never were and never will be but can certainly get us off track and destroyed in the meantime.

MadisonMan said...

It is interesting watching the right wing media deal with Trump's 'summit'. They are notably lukewarm

I'm not sure how you define 'right wing media' but I'll say that the question is: How will things work out in the long run? I'm very glad Trump and KJU have met -- that is huge. But I don't know yet what will come of it. It's certain that it could be a step in the right direction. Is cautiously optimistic the same as lukewarm in your book?

What adulation would we have seen from the NYTimes if Obama had done exactly what Trump did? Would Obama have received another Peace Prize?

AllenS said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended.

Let me guess. The real estate developer became POTUS?

David Begley said...

The Obama crowd had the Hollywood people on their side. Why didn't Obama or Hillary do something like this? Because they are timid idiots and don't understand the big picture. Kim wants to be richer than Hillary and he does so by following the China model of exploitation of a low wage workforce.


Every day Obama and Hillary are looking worse and worse. The contrast is amazing. When this FBI/Russia thing blows up, they are finished. Mueller has nothing on Trump.

Sebastian said...

Consider me a lukewarm righty. The Kims have a lot of blood on their hands, the concentration camps still operate, and we have been burned before. We'll see what happens.

"how to avoid violence from the NK people Kim is paying off to avoid violence."

He is not exactly "paying off" the people, just an elite, but this is the main point: what's the dictator's exit strategy?

Trump's subliminal message is: if you change, we got your back. I'm sure Xi is saying the same thing. "You can be Deng."

Come visit the U.S. and we'll give you a cowboy hat.

tcrosse said...

Why didn't Obama or Hillary do something like this?

We could speculate that President Hillary would have bought off Kim with the proverbial pallet of cash, a cut off the top going to the Clinton Foundation as a finders fee.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Trump's predecessors really got it right, so, you know, we should never try something new and different. Never .Status Quo baby. If Hillary cannot make a buck, it's not worth doing.

steve uhr said...

Is it helpful to remind Kim of how backward his country is: i.e. that his father and grandfather were complete failures? I doubt it.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

tcrosse - exactly. A giant gift to the Clinton Foundation would have solved NoKo years ago. Not really, but at least the Clintons are made whole.

M Jordan said...

The video works on its surface appeal. Kim loves American music, movies, culture and this video dangles it in front of him as something he can have. It turns him into the hero. But it places him at a fork in the road: he must choose now. The opportunity I’ll slip away if he waits.

I’m sure there are subtle underlying effects intended but really it just appeals to a man-child straight up. And Kim is a man-child, that I can tell you.

Sebastian said...

The video also boxes Kim in, if he wants to go back to the old ways: you were all smiles in front of the world, we treated you nicely, you can be a hero -- and now this? You're a loser! Don't be a loser. Losers are the worst.

Puff him up to increase the cost of future embarrassment.

Bay Area Guy said...

I watched the video. To me, it doesn't make a large impression. However, I'm certainly not the target audience.

The question is, Who is the target audience and does it make an effective impression on them?

Bob Boyd said...

"Why didn't Obama or Hillary do something like this?"

Because in Obama's world view, America has nothing to offer, is morally equivalent to North Korea at best, needs to apologize to the world for it's entire history and then essentially commit suicide.

Rick said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended.


It's amusing watching the far left criticize agreements with a focus that our partners might not hold up their end. When Dem presidents make deals the most positive outcomes are simply assumed even when they are obviously fantasies (most obvious in the case of Bill Clinton's NK deal). This proves they understand the process which in turn shows their support for the Bill Clinton/North Korea and Obama/Iran deals are based solely on partisanship.

They just aren't capable of anything more.

Shouting Thomas said...

The target audience is Kim.

“You, too, can be a pop hero of American culture!” Is the message.

Trump is successfully addressing American blacks in the same way:

“You can have your share of the American Dream with a great job!”

Implied, but not stated, “instead of gang banging.”

exhelodrvr1 said...

Actually, ARM, Fox has been appropriately cautious with their analysis. They have consistently been using the "It's a very good start, but NK has made similar promises before, so we need to wait and see" approach.

Robert Cook said...

"I disagree with Ann here and agree with Adams that the video is great. It is not propaganda at all."

Of course it's propaganda! Every communication meant to convey a particular point of view or arouse a particular response by an audience is propaganda. My uncle owned the biggest advertising agency in Florida, (after he retired the people he allowed to take over for him ran it into the ground and its now gone), and, once, at a family gathering, I made some comment about commercials being propaganda. I was not being judgemental; I was stating what I see as obvious fact. Some in the family protested, assuming, I guess, that I was somehow impugning my uncle's profession and business. However, my uncle hushed those protesting and told them that, of course, advertising was propaganda.

In short, virtually everything we see in the media is propaganda of one sort or another. This does not mean it is all untrue; it just means it is a tailored presentation of information meant to serve a purpose.

Propaganda can be useful and factually informative. The problem is when people accept propaganda uncritically--when they don't recognize it as propaganda and see it as unadorned truth, without considering its purposes or whose interests are being served.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

I'm skeptical of what will really work to break the fat crazy family dictatorship. Most of NoKo are starving or in prison. If you try to leave or cross the border into SoKo or China, you will be shot. That's some sweet living. North Koreans are kept in the dark as to what is really going on and if you are caught with a radio or any sort of device that feeds reality, you will be imprisoned, or worse. You and your entire family.

Leftwing paradise. In any case, Trump's plan may or may not work, but his predecessors did exactly jack squat. That won't stop the democratic corporate press from propagandizing their whining, rage and gnashing of teeth.

My favorite part of the corrupt leftwing press is when they tell us Kim is so smart. Yeah - he's smart and successful at the task of starving his people. *High five from the leftwing press.*

narayanan said...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda

#2 the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

Ann Althouse said...

"I disagree with Ann here and agree with Adams that the video is great. It is not propaganda at all. I think it should win the Academy Award for best short."

Did Adams say it wasn't propaganda?

I don't think you need to deny that it's propaganda to say it's great, and in fact, I don't think you can say it's great while denying that it's propaganda.

Maybe you have a special, narrow meaning for the word "propaganda." I sure don't. Click on my propaganda tag.

Please be clear: I did not say it wasn't great.

Bob Boyd said...

Trump is making propaganda great again.

rehajm said...

The problem is when people accept propaganda uncritically--when they don't recognize it as propaganda and see it as unadorned truth, without considering its purposes or whose interests are being served.

He's talking to you ARM. Remember this next time you spout of about reading some book for the truth.

Rob said...

That video is so inane, the only sensible explanation is that it was specially engineered by the CIA to give Kim brain cancer. I cling to that thought.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

CNN is a joke.

tcrosse said...

The problem is when people accept propaganda uncritically

Conversely when people reject propaganda uncritically because it's....propaganda.

robother said...

And by the way, isn't the whole conventional US South Korean war games display just a real expensive piece of propaganda? Aimed at the same guy. who now has nukes and may have a delivery system to the US mainland? So everyone knows the next shots fired on the Korean peninsula will not be conventional, but Hiroshima-style. Trump's propaganda movie's a lot cheaper to produce. And he got to cancel the expensive production.

narayanan said...

"The model is China, not democracy."

Chinese model may be considered 'mature'
if NK can start off at that level they would skip multi-generations time delay.

Robert Cook said...

"Conversely when people reject propaganda uncritically because it's....propaganda."

Yes.

That something is propaganda is not, in itself, a reason to reject it. One still has to apply one's critical judgment to determine the validity of whatever claims and information it provides.

Shouting Thomas said...

Life is fun and entertaining under Prez Trump.

Can you imagine what life would be like with Hillary delivering her daily scoldings to the Deplorables, and her daily solemn ass licking of the deified victim classes?

Original Mike said...

ARM said...”It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended.”

Really? The world ended? I hadn’t noticed.

AllenS said...

Since US and South Korean have been having war games for like forever, nothing changed in North Korea, so, cancelling the present war games means nothing politically except that it makes Trump look more trustworthy to Kim. Winning. Once again The Art of the Deal.

David Begley said...

The problem with the word "propaganda" is that most people (not regular readers of the OED) think of propaganda as negative. If Adams used the word "propaganda" he should know that. For me, a propaganda film is like Leni Riefenstahl made. Or some of the films Hollywood made for the homefront during WW2.

I saw it as a great sales pitch. It was an alternate view of the future for North Korea with the main message being Kim can become ultrarich and a hero to his people.

Propaganda = Bad. Sales pitch = Good.

Ann Althouse said...

Ads — including political ads — are propaganda that we recognize as propaganda. Being on to the propagandistic aspect of what you are watching frees you to willingly allow yourself to be influenced.

Hey, this is working on me in spite of the engagement of my judgmental mind. I think the greatest propaganda of the last decade — the Bernie Sanders "America" ad and the Will.i.am "Yes We Can" video for Obama.

dreams said...

And this.

https://www.facebook.com/324179380953007/photos/a.324186447618967.68372.324179380953007/1693668534004078/?type=3&theater

Ann Althouse said...

I mean... I think of the greatest propaganda

narayanan said...

Definition of evangelize in secular terms also = propaganda

1 : to preach the gospel (of Freedom or Serfdom - take your pick)
2 : to convert to Christianity
intransitive verb
: to preach the gospel

gilbar said...

remember the videos that came out from hollywood right after O'Bama got elected?
the I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO O'BAMA one?

and the one with the kids ?

Trump's propaganda seems far better; and not so (to GROPE for a word) creepy

rehajm said...

The Greatest Propaganda

SDaly said...

It seems that the President of South Korea is reinforcing the themes of Trump's video.

When I met with Chairman Kim Jong Un … on May 26, and when I spoke over the phone with President Trump yesterday, I could cautiously predict the success of the summit. Seventy years of division and hostility, however have cast a dark shadow and that makes it difficult to believe what is actually taking place before our very eyes.
I pay my high compliments for the courage and determination of the two leaders, President Trump and Chairman Kim, not to settle for that outdated and familiar reality but to take a daring step towards change.
Chairman Kim Jong Un will also be remembered as a leader who made a historic moment by taking the first bold step toward the world.

Building upon the agreement reached today, we will take a new path going forward. Leaving dark days of war and conflict behind, we will write a new chapter of peace and cooperation. We will be there together with North Korea along the way.
This is just a beginning and there may be many difficulties ahead, but we will never go back to the past again …


To me, the video and the diplomacy are geared toward giving KJU a way out of the past, to become a hero in order to compensate him for the inevitable hate that will be directed at his father and grandfather.

buwaya said...

War games serve many functions.
One is propaganda, and its usually meant for many audiences.
Enemies, allies, neutrals, leaders and populations.

There are concrete values in war games besides. One is training, especially of planning and logistics systems, another is testing organizations, another is "getting to know you" of allies and not least different service branches.

And that is all before testing operations and tactics.

Amadeus 48 said...

"Others are appalled by propaganda (when, for whatever reason, they are triggered to regard something as propaganda)."

No they aren't. They love their own propaganda.

But not you, Althouse. You are unique.

The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...

"I'm inclined to give Trump the benefit of the doubt against his critics, but as a lukewarm friend I would say he is extremely comfortable with what might seem to be vulgarity and crassness."

Consider who is the target here. It's weirdly naive to think Trump and his people haven't. Haven't weighed decades of information and intelligence (and quite probably psychological profiling) to produce something most likely to aid in the persuasion of KJU. The Left's refusal to think seriously about Trump (and the resources now at his disposal) is why he keeps beating them like a rented mule.

wwww said...


"Did you have a C-17 land in Pyongyang while we were distracted? Did they take all his nukes out to NTS for disposal?"

-Rick Wilson


Media trailers, persuasion techniques, cable news shows, talking heads, rhetoric, propaganda. You may find it compelling. You may find it entertaining.

The facts remain. A nuke that can reach the American mainland is a nuke that can reach the American mainland.

Deeds, not words.

A nuke is a nuke. Unless North Korean nukes are gone and it's verified...it's a threat to American lives.

wwww said...



The Norks allowing filming a fake destruction of a testing site: Classic Propaganda Technique.

David Begley said...

Ann:

You are in the top 1% in the understanding of word meanings. Most people think propaganda is ipso facto bad and evil.

Michael K said...

And the dictator in China told Kim that he could be really rich by exploiting his low wage workforce.

Yes and that is what this video is reenforcing. German unions refused to accept the low wage model with reunification. The South Koreans, having lived under the thousands artillery pieces 10 miles from Seoul for decades are unlikely to react that way.

Viet Nam took over low wage industry but NK would be in a position to take that away.

ARM is a nice window into the left's thinking, if you could call it that.

Michael K said...

It's fun to see "four dub" quote Wilson who wanted to shoot Trump in the head.

Another window to the left.

Seeing Red said...

What’s the message?

We Can build this.

Lolololololol

Char Char Binks said...

What makes you think propaganda doesn't work on those who know it's propaganda?

Commercials work even though we know what they are. "Obey Your Thirst" is great propaganda -- if we obeyed our thirst we'd drink tap water, not overpriced sugar water endorsed by celebrities, but sales of Sprite soared.

Kim is human, and susceptible to influence.

Clyde said...

When people we don't like put out information that supports their views, we call it "propaganda." When people we like put out information that supports their views, we call it "journalism."

Was the Destiny Films production "propaganda"? If you hate Trump (or hate America), certainly. And clumsy propaganda at that. It had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the forehead, but they weren't going for subtlety, were they? The message was clear and unmistakable to all: Seize an opportunity to change your ways, join the civilized world and make a better life for yourself and all your people; or continue as you have been, poor and isolated, and risk a war that will destroy your regime and your country. Clumsy propaganda or not, Kim Jong Un seems to have gotten the message.

Owen said...

I tend toward Scott Adams' view. That video was brilliant in conception and execution. Yes, of course, it is propaganda. And Kim knew that; which in a sense disarmed him. Like all of us super-sophisticated consumers of TV ads, which we watch with total skepticism and irony, aware of the dual perspective of the ad-makers (sincere and ironic at the same time), Kim will have watched it and both rejected and accepted the pompous hyperbole and the cheap flattery, the fantastic unenforceable promises and threats.

He will have been fully on his guard. And yet?

He cannot un-see what he saw. That message is burned in.

It may do little except create a certain tone or bias in the nascent relationship. But that alone is worth it.

In fact, it may do much more. What, and how much, we can't ever know with much confidence; not even if Kim says that it did. The effect is IMHO pre-verbal or subconscious.

But I think it was worth it. Trump is a salesman, all right. If he can sell peace and prosperity, I'm buying.

The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...

"The facts remain. A nuke that can reach the American mainland is a nuke that can reach the American mainland.

Deeds, not words."

This is why it's so great to have a Republican president. The standard is suddenly raised from empty bullshit virtue signalling, to actual results. After 8 years of slowly sliding in the ditch, we all now agree that something of substance should result. Trump, the Great Unifier.

dreams said...

I'm optimistic, I just wish I could buy some beachfront property in North Korea.

"While the Anti-Trump Mandarins of the Commentariat (ATMC, for short) are busy untwisting their knickers after the President’s historic summit meeting with the Tubby Tyrant of North Korea, I have an important real-estate tip to pass along: beach-front property in North Korea. Keep your eye on it. As Trump said yesterday in his wide-ranging press conference following his meeting with Kim Jong-un, that stretch of land between China and South Korea would be an ideal spot for luxury hotels and condos, if only Kim would stop shooting off cannons there."

https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/why-does-the-commentariat-so-despise-trumps-success/

Amadeus 48 said...

wwww...of course, you know...this means war!

Henry said...

Oh my goodness, that's marvelous schlock.

To say it's propaganda kind of misses the point. Propaganda is a term we use for a certain kind of advertising. But what is this advertising? It's pure high concept.

High-concept narratives are typically characterised by an overarching "what if?" scenario that acts as a catalyst for the following events. Often, the most popular summer blockbuster movies are built on a high-concept idea, such as "what if we could clone dinosaurs?", as in Jurassic Park....Extreme examples of high-concept films are Snakes on a Plane and Hobo with a Shotgun, which describe their entire premises in their titles.

Henry said...

ARM said...”It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended.”

It reminded me a little of the ads put together by cities trying to woo a corporate headquarters.

One of the cities always wins.

Kylos said...

Althouse, Adams emphasizes that exact point when he talks about persuasion: good persuasions is still effective even though you recognize it as propaganda and can identify the techniques used. It's the irrationality of humanity.

mockturtle said...

We can bet that the Left will be continually moving the goal post regarding success in NORK. No surprise there. Listening to Schumer this morning was good for a few laughs as well as a resigned shaking of the head.

DKWalser said...

The CIA and the State Department have amassed a lot of information about Kim. While he's been reclusive, he was educated in the West and several people have met with him over the years. From these and other sources, I'm sure our government has developed a profile of Kim's personality. Over the last couple of months, Sec. of State Pompeo met with Kim and had the chance to test and improve their profile's accuracy.

I'm confident that this knowledge was used in developing the video. Trump knows the importance of tailoring a sales pitch to the target audience. I cannot believe he'd not take advantage of the information the Department of State and the CIA had on Kim, nor can I fathom Pompeo not using that information in helping Trump tailor to Kim's tastes materials for use at the summit.

None of this means that the video was well received by Kim. New Coke was based on mountains of market research and it was still a flop. The Edsel, too, represented years of customer surveys done by Ford. It, too, was a disaster. All I'm saying is I don't believe the Trump Administration was shooting from the hip with this video. It represented a lot of work in understanding Kim.

Henry said...

One way to (emotionally) disarm a paranoid is acting like a goofball.

"I can see through you" is better than "you are controlling my mind."

Dare to be stupid.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Looked at the video. An emotional, not logic based sell, but a nice Thank You card to Kim.

Fuzzy reference to "the two....": sometimes the two Great Leaders; sometimes the two Koreas.

Sometimes notes the economic under development of N. Korea; hard to avoid noting that.

Overall and repeatedly presents the two Leaders and equal. Something nice for Kim to take back from the meeting and show his people, if he choses to do so.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

"It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended."

Yeah. I too remember Whitewater.

wwww said...


Amadeus 48,

No, it means what it means. There are nukes in North Korea that can reach the American mainland.

Don't be taken in by propaganda.

Hype is hype. Have fun with it, sure. Make a podcast like Scott Adams and make $$ off of it, sure. Be amused with the spectacle put on for TV cameras. Argue with your friends and colleagues about what it means. That's fine. It's entertainment and amusements, and TV ratings and blog hits.

It remains hype.

Unless and until removal and verification.

narayanan said...

Is it a given that no one else in NK (but not the entourage in Singapore) will see the video? Can it be effectively suppressed by Kim etc?

Can the Entourage un-see it?

William said...

I thought propaganda was aimed at a mass audience. This was a sales pitch aimed at a single individual and a highly idiosyncratic one at that. Someone sold Kim on the beauty of that haircut. He looks gullible in certain areas and maybe Trump has an instinct for closing in on those areas.

SDaly said...

I thought the image of the dark North at night suddenly lighting up to mirror the vibrancy of South Korea was a great touch - Kim could light up the country with electricity, rather than nukes.

narayanan said...

DKWalser said...
'Over the last couple of months, Sec. of State Pompeo met with Kim and had the chance to test and improve their profile's accuracy. '

What things would a MAGA diplomat look for vs Progressive diplomat?
who is more likely to confirm? / challenge his own 'biases'

Seeing Red said...

I thought the Norks have nukes to reach Alaska, not the mainland.

If one thinks about it like 9/11, it’s a risk/reward scenario. I read an article about that a few years ago. Besides, didn’t Obama cancel or cut back that nasty nuclear umbrella we wanted? We didn’t need it because......with him the oceans receded or some nonsense?

Seeing Red said...

It’s a beautiful thinG, now things have to be verifiable.

readering said...

Is Destiny Pictures now making a trailer for Justin and EPN? Chuck and Nancy?

William said...

Shaw, who could see all the evils of prevalent in Edwardian England, visited Stalin's Russia and was well pleased with what he saw. He was literally able to see the world as it was not. He thought Russia was utopia. Do leftists ever wonder why they're so delusional?

Kristian Holvoet said...

It is interesting watching the right wing media deal with Trump's 'summit'. They are notably lukewarm (not FOX, of course).

Kim is only slightly more trustworthy than Iran, but we didn't give him pallets of cash to lie to us like Feckless Obama. So, it an improvement. Hence, luke warm.

Mark Cogley said...

This is precisely the attempt made by liberal social workers at a reform school - get an irredeemable criminal mind to transform its own mental outlook. "You don't have to continue doing this, there is a better path open to you." As such, I appreciate the attempt. The Trump-deranged media (speaking of irredeemable) cannot, of course. I hope it was outfitted with a Korean speaker - why make Kim read subtitles? I thought also the images whizzed by too fast, too much for his comprehension perhaps.

Mark Cogley said...

This is precisely the attempt made by liberal social workers at a reform school - get an irredeemable criminal mind to transform its own mental outlook. "You don't have to continue doing this, there is a better path open to you." As such, I appreciate the attempt. The Trump-deranged media (speaking of irredeemable) cannot, of course. I hope it was outfitted with a Korean speaker - why make Kim read subtitles? I thought also the images whizzed by too fast, too much for his comprehension perhaps.

Mark Cogley said...

This is precisely the attempt made by liberal social workers at a reform school - get an irredeemable criminal mind to transform its own mental outlook. "You don't have to continue doing this, there is a better path open to you." As such, I appreciate the attempt. The Trump-deranged media (speaking of irredeemable) cannot, of course. I hope it was outfitted with a Korean speaker - why make Kim read subtitles? I thought also the images whizzed by too fast, too much for his comprehension perhaps.

CJ said...

I don’t know what will happen with NK - they’ve done nothing but lie previously, everyone knows this - but Qanon did accurately predict that the deal was worked out long before this summit.

Maybe that’s something easy to guess for someone that’s been in government for a while, but to me it proves that Q is real.

I thought the video was great - corny yet uplifting, and struck the right tone. A picture says 1000 words - the North Korea brightly-lit was particularly good. Because it showed Kim something that must embarrass him and then an offered an opportunity to fix it.

It’d be nice if this works out, but worst case we are back to where we are now, with the US having extended a ln earnest olive branch. That’s something we haven’t done in a long time. We are constantly trying to manipulate other countries against their leaders’ interests. This is manipulating in Kim’s interest.

Seeing Red said...

Just so long as Trump doesn’t offer access to the US banking system....I wonder what the Black Turbans think? They’re not getting ones getting honey wined and dined and a free stay in a playground. They get mocking response gifs from our Jerusalem embassy. Go away kid, you’re bothering me. The world focused on Trump, and they talk to the G6, mommy, make daddy pay attention to us!

My name goes here. said...

If Trump's agreement with NK fails then he can say he tried and just like Clinton/Bush/Obama the North Noreans were intranient.

The problem in the media's eyes is not that this summit raises the profile of Kim to the world stage, but that even the failure of this effort raises Trump to the level of Clinton/Bush/Obama.

And don't get me started if this agreement holds. Jake Tapper will need to be hospitalized.

readering said...

I wonder how it sounds in Korean. And if a Norwegian version exists. Apparently Norwegian media reporting Trump has been nominated for the Nobel by some Norwegian legislators.

Mike said...

"Deeds, not words."

This is why it's so great to have a Republican president.


Cracker's point deserves repeating. Suddenly ALL of us agree that we need verifiable actions. So different from Obama's get-the-Nobel-on-expectation and then satiate Iran without even a counter-signed document. Iran didn't even make empty promises.

Which also brings up the weird ultra-stupid phrase Lefties used yesterday on this topic: "How can you criticize the Iran deal and support this summit?"

buwaya said...

There was no arms reduction treaty immediately after Reagan met Gorbachev at Rejkjavik.

Nor was there any real treaty at all when Nixon went to China.

But both things were profoundly important.

This case, of North Korea, is a very little thing in comparison, because NK is such a small place. But it is of a similar nature.

Seeing Red said...

Via Insty:

Sen. Jim Risch (R., Idaho), a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he has discussed future Senate approval of a treaty with President Trump and his senior advisers regarding new arms talks with North Korea....

And actually following the US Constitution.

Larry J said...

David Begley said...

And the dictator in China told Kim that he could be really rich by exploiting his low wage workforce. Apple iphones will be built in North Korea in 5 years. Better margins all around. Something like 30% of North Korea's tiny GDP is now spent on the military. This thing could turn fast.


There is another factor to consider. North Korea shares borders with China and South Korea, which are major trading partners. North Korea has rail lines that run from China to the South Korean border. They were built to carry Chinese troops for an invasion of the South. They can just as easily carry goods between the two countries. In effect, North Korea could become the Amazon or Walmart fulfillment center between the two countries. With a relaxation of hostilities and guarantees of protection for international investments, North Korea can keep its current style of government and attract a lot of foreign investment, the same as Vietnam has done. The standard of living can increase rapidly in the North, making Kim Jung Il a very popular (and wealthy) man.

Seeing Red said...

Which also brings up the weird ultra-stupid phrase Lefties used yesterday on this topic: "How can you criticize the Iran deal and support this summit?"

Because a summit is not a deal?

Michael K said...

I thought also the images whizzed by too fast, too much for his comprehension perhaps.

No, I think that was part of the video. I've heard about subliminal advertising that you aren't even aware you've seen.

I am not knowledgeable about these advertising techniques but I think this is part of the design.

Balfegor said...

Re: Larry J:

North Korea has rail lines that run from China to the South Korean border. They were built to carry Chinese troops for an invasion of the South.

They were actually built to carry Japanese troops from the Imperial Army base at Yongsan (now our army base in Seoul) up to Manchuria to fight the Russians in the Russo-Japanese war. This is the line that runs from Seoul, through Pyongyang, up to Sinuiju on the border with China (and continued up to Mukden (aka Shenyang or Fengtian).

DKWalser said...

@wwww:

It remains hype.

Unless and until removal and verification.


I think that's an unfair standard and one that you wouldn't want to be held to. It's unfair for a number of reasons. Among them are these:

1 - It ignores all the concessions Kim has already made. We received 3 US citizens back. NORK has ceased testing weapons. NORK has destroyed its underground nuke test site and one of its missile test launch sites. (Yes, the underground site was already damaged. We don't know how much work it would have taken to repair it.)

Obviously, Kim could restart his weapons program tomorrow. However, these still are significant changes -- every bit as significant as those claimed by Obama in the Iran deal of which he was so proud -- because it will take some time to restart those programs. Time, because of the sanctions, is not working in NORK's favor.

2 - It ignores the agency of Kim. As much as we might like to, we cannot make Kim do as we wish. We'd all like him to agree to give up his weapons and agree to verification. What if he will not? What if no one can persuade him to do so? Kim, himself, may not know if he is persuadable on this question. Is it fair, at this point, to dismiss this process as "hype" when it is unknown and unknowable whether ultimate success is even possible? Or, would you rather that Trump take the only other acceptable option -- remove Kim's weapons by force -- without first trying negotiation?

3 - Trump has given up very little so far. He's 'given Kim a stage' and he's promised to suspend the US/South Korea war games. Kim was getting himself on the world stage by launching a missile or testing a nuke. The next war game wasn't to happen until 2019. If the talks aren't going well by November, Trump will simply declare that they're back on. So, by saying that the games are off, he gained another bargaining chip. That's a concession that 'cost' us nothing.

On balance, I'd much rather Trump talk with Kim than try to find another way of dealing with his increasing threat to the US and and our allies. Will it work? We don't know, but the process is worthwhile even if it does not eventually payoff. Not everything that fails was mere hype.

Balfegor said...

Re: Kristian Holvoet:

Kim is only slightly more trustworthy than Iran, but we didn't give him pallets of cash to lie to us like Feckless Obama. So, it an improvement. Hence, luke warm.

Mm, we didn't, but let's wait and see whether anyone else did. I would not be shocked to discover if someone in South Korea bribed them.

Drago said...

ARM: ”It looks like something a real estate developer would put together. We all know how that ended.”

Wow.

A little early in the day to be trashing the work of our intelligence agencies and their psychological profiling of KJU and identifying techniques and methodologies and PR tools that they believe will advance the US strategic interests.

But then again, those forces want the US to be successful in their endeavors.

Since you clearly are on the I Want This Effort To Fail team, I can see how you would oppose and denigrate this particular aspect of our overall plan.

Not to worry. I'm sure you can start a GoFundMe to help give KJU some funds from abroad that will help empower him to stand up to that big bad evil Trump.

That is, if you have any money left after supporting the murderous lefty commie dictators killing their people in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua.

Ray said...

The video boxed in Kim with two choices, and was super flattering to him. Lots of ego stroking. Either be a great man of history, or not.

Brilliant framing.

And when the video leaks out to NK, more pressure!

Oh No! The France foreign minister complained Trump almost hugged Kim, and cold shouldered the G7.

Drago said...

ARM: "It is interesting watching the right wing media deal with Trump's 'summit'. They are notably lukewarm (not FOX, of course)."

Perfectly reasonable position to take until the details are hashed out by Pompeo and Bolton and put together in a treaty/agreement that is submitted to the Senate for review and advise and consent.

Unlike "sort of a god" obama.

readering said...

"Because a summit is not a deal"
Accurate. There is no deal yet.

buwaya said...

I would be surprised if the SK government HADN'T handed over a pile of cash.
Making peace with NK would be politically stupendous in SK.
That little parade with Kim was a big thing for Moon.
An interesting but minor side effect is the SK left likes Trump and Americans a lot more.

Seeing Red said...

I love how the goal posts move.

Drago said...

readering: "Accurate. There is no deal yet"

We will soon enough (3 to 6 months?) see what emerges from Pompeo/Bolton talks and the treaty (hey, an actual treaty submission to the US Senate for review, do the dems even remember what that looks like?) is sent to the US Senate and NOT kept absolutely secret (as with obama) and won't actually violate our laws (unlike obama) and is in accord with our Constitution (unlike obama).

Quick note for our lefties/LLR's: The Constitution, though, like, very old, like, over a 100 years old or something, is, like, still a thing. Or something.

Drago said...

Do the dems even realize that the Iranians never actually signed the obama I Love Islam/The Call To Prayer Is The Most Beautiful Sound In The World fake "deal"?

Never even signed it.

And why would they? They were dealing with obambi and Kerry! LOL

Seeing Red said...

There was also the rumor Nork scientists left Iran.

pacwest said...

I think it was a terrible idea to give Kim a place on the world stage like Trump did. I don't think anybody in the world even had heard his name before Trump made this terrible mistake. How dare Trump give this dictator a chance to make his case (I missed the part where he made his case, but I'm sure it was convincing). At any rate, his new gained legitimacy will give him the ability to force many other nations to give him what he wants. Trump has taken a complete unknown and given him a power to influence world leaders (who didn't even know he existed before this). This was a very very terrible thing. North Korea was unkown country, and had no influence on the world stage. Now, because of Trump's blunder, Kim will be able to bend the nation's of the world to his will. I think we should just submit now and get it over with. How can we not? He's legitimate.

Teller said...

Join the World or don't is a sound thought for a manifesto video. What it needed was a better VO - Clooney, for example - but we know he'd never do it. I would've suggested Trump show up for the meeting with Kim's identical fade haircut, which is why I wasn't asked.

Drago said...

Seeing Red: "There was also the rumor Nork scientists left Iran"

And the Chinese just pulled their surface-to-air missile systems off their manufactured South China Sea Islands, which is very interesting given the threats issued long ago about US pushing Freedom of Navigation acts and sending Carrier Strike Groups through that area to show we will not be "respecting" this BS China move.

Note to LLR Chuck/"Craig"/"Chadwick" who almost joined the military but didn't because there was no draft: A Carrier Strike Group is an impressive thing, almost like a big Choo-choo in the water!

Browndog said...

This isn't hard. Trump is selling Kim peace and prosperity. A hard sell. I watched the live coverage of the meeting on an Asian news broadcast; English speaking out of Taiwan I believe. Corespondents in the region interviewed business owners and patrons, all very upbeat and positive.

American news media will suck the life out of you.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gerry said...

Hey, Quaestor: Apparently, "all" doesn't include ARM.

Since he/she/it is calling himself/herself/itself "Beloved Commenter AreasonableMan", may I suggest referring to he/she/it as "BM" instead of "ARM"? I think it apropos.

As for the critique in New Yorker magazine, if a journalism pimp with likely no real experience or expertise in anything except pimped journalism as clickbait expresses disdain for them, then Trump's efforts are bearing the intended target fruit (probably in more ways than one).

eddie willers said...

Come visit the U.S. and we'll give you a cowboy hat.

A big one with MAGA spelled out in Rhinestones.

And Drago....I was listening to the radio the night of the Summit and heard a pundit say something and then a long pregnant pause followed by "Unexpectedly".

I almost rushed to the TV to see what you look like.

Michael K said...

Since you clearly are on the I Want This Effort To Fail team, I can see how you would oppose and denigrate this particular aspect of our overall plan.

Well put. The left is sure in revealing mode. I'm convinced that a large share of the would-be NeverTrumpers have been converted by the behavior of his enemies, left and right.

I see them on Ricochet.

Inga said...

Propagandists and propaganda are extremely annoying because they are an insult to most people’s intelligence. They assume that you are ripe for the taking and would never be able to figure out it’s pure bullshit. If it were a worthy idea or concept the Propagandist would have no reason to use propaganda. The unvarnished rational truth could be made, honesty could be employed. Realism wouldn’t be a threat to the idea being discussed. Propaganda tries to sell unworthy ideas. Propaganda has a negative connotation because it is a negative. As a matter of fact to say propaganda is not a bad thing, is in itself propaganda.

Why are people so afraid to use the truth when promoting their ideas?

prop·a·gan·da
ˌpräpəˈɡandə/Submit
noun
1.
derogatory
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
"he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"
synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, publicity, spin; More

Drago said...

eddie willers: "I almost rushed to the TV to see what you look like"

I like to think of myself as a cross between Tom Selleck and Peter Lorre.

Michael K said...


I would be surprised if the SK government HADN'T handed over a pile of cash.
Making peace with NK would be politically stupendous in SK.


Yes. I have read for years that SK was opposed to the refugees and would even hand some back that had sought asylum in the embassy in China.

Their nightmare is millions of starving refugees headed south.

Developing NK, however, would be a huge bonanza. They would get billions of contracts for roads and utilities.

Seeing Red said...

And this is why, kiddies, you vote republican. Because then the other side insists on standards that they otherwise wouldn’t.

And to truly try and bury the racism card, the next AA to be president must be republican. Or Hispanic.

Look how Tim Scott (R) S.C. was treated.

Drago said...

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

Michael K said...

It looks like today's DNC memo went out.

The Democrats are going to run on raising taxes and war with North Korea.

That should work well.

Browndog said...

On the morning of the summit, NK state television announced that Kim was in Singapore meeting with President Trump. This is no small thing. Once you give hope to an oppressed people it's almost impossible to reverse.

William said...

A big part of Trump's business was selling overpriced luxury condos to egomaniacs. As he has said, his life was preparation for this moment. Is it possible that the North Korean Commie elite look to their billionaire counterparts in China and Vietnam and think why not us?.......The North Koreans never became much of a cause celebre among the left. They used to say that there was no point in sacrificing American lives for a corrupt dictator like Rhee or the generals who replaced him, but the Kims never had the glamour of Lenin, Chou En Lai, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, and other Communist saviors. Maybe if Kim got a better haircut and talked about preserving the pristine beauty of North Korea's beaches, he could get more currency among the left.......Some Communist dictators are better than others at propagandizing the left. Kim is really bad at it.

Sal said...

The only propaganda the media likes is its own creations.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Lloyd W Robertson @7:58... Are you messing with me? Did you not read me reaming out Sablan on the Biden thread yesterday? What did I say about you fucking pinky-lifters whining about Trump's manners? Take off your pussy hat and have a great steaming cup of SHUT YOUR PIE-HOLE! We don't give a damn if Trump is not your kind of sporting fellow. We don't care that you are upset that his pants aren't creased like Obama. We love that he isn't a "gentleman born loser like McCain and Romney and Ryan and Sasse and Flake and Graham and all the many other supine parasites who have been bleeding America for generations. We're on that kind of integrity kick!

Drago said...

Michael K: "Developing NK, however, would be a huge bonanza. They would get billions of contracts for roads and utilities."

Well, I think it more likely that Asian private and national funders (think of China, Japan, SK, Singapore, all the others) would obviously have to kick in all the cash upfront to create development with the promise, for private entities) of reaping the benefits downstream whereas govts in that region contributing would probably just write off their investments as a geo-political investment in peace and stability.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Drago,
You can add "Are there any recent indications that Iran was, in fact, never complying with the treaty's nuclear research limitations?

Henry said...

prop·a·gan·da
ˌpräpəˈɡandə/Submit
noun

2. a committee of cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church responsible for foreign missions, founded in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV.

Sweet Mary and Joseph, it's the Illumanati behind this abomination!

Inga said...

Here’s some monumental propaganda: “North Korea is no longer a threat.”.

Bruce Hayden said...

"The facts remain. A nuke that can reach the American mainland is a nuke that can reach the American mainland. “

Not sure really what the problem there is. Right now, it is questionable whether Kim has one ICBM deliverable warhead, and whether he can hit something of value, thousands of miles away. It might go off then, and it might not. Countering this, we have roughly 3,000 much more sophisticated, much more dependable, nuclear warheads, some just minutes of flight time offshore N Korea. Obama, of course, tried to weaken, if not destroy, our nuclear arsenal, but it is being rebuilt by Trump. What would Kim aim at with that one warhead (keeping in mind that his ICBM technology isn’t as robust as ours)? My vote would be LA. Geographically, it is huge, so hard to completely miss. LA would be good for us, because nuking it would greatly reduce our level of illegal aliens in this country. But it has Hollywood, which Kim seems to like. That really just leaves the SF Bay Area. Economically, Silicon Valley would hurt us the most. But it would also hurt the Chinese, who greatly depend on the innovation there for their middle class manufacturing jobs. Which leaves SF itself. Loss for the gay community, but otherwise not that bad. Maybe he would get lucky and hit the San Andreas Fault, which would solve the country’s California Problem quite nicely. Point there is that any real nuclear attack by them would take out mostly Crooked Hillary voters (legal and illegal) (ok, there is also Alaska, impossible to miss, filled with (a few) primarily Trump voters, but pointless, due to its population density). Of course, by now, Kim knows that Trump is very likely not bluffing - he would obliterate N Korea, in short order, starting with the SLBMs parked offshore, if Kim were to even try to attack us with his tiny nuclear arsenal.

Inga said...

Here’s some monumental propaganda: “North Korea is no longer a threat.”.

FullMoon said...

steve uhr said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Is it helpful to remind Kim of how backward his country is: i.e. that his father and grandfather were complete failures? I doubt it.


Hell yes it is a great idea. Kim is third generation, in the shadow of his ancestors, who are like gods in NK. Kim will end up eclipsing them if he brings NK out of the dark ages.
Kim like the Ted Kennedy of the brothers, never measures up to the legend.

Drago said...

exhelodrvr1: "Drago,
You can add "Are there any recent indications that Iran was, in fact, never complying with the treaty's nuclear research limitations?"

Yes, there are lots of even more interesting questions involving the Iranians obvious cheating and laughing at us even as obambi attempted to give them even more money but, lets face it, Inga can barely handle the most basic and easy to understand questions as posted above.

It would literally be unfair to ask her to stretch her understanding to the breaking point by asking more sophisticated questions.

Drago said...

Let's try again:

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

Earnest Prole said...

Watching the video, I realize once again that Trump is parody-proof.

Seeing Red said...

I wonder what the SorKs think of that video, that takes the burden off them. I read the kids paid attention to Germany’s reunification and don’t want that bill. But going in with a development vision....that’s interesting.

Drago said...

FullMoon: "Kim like the Ted Kennedy of the brothers, never measures up to the legend"

Most importantly, Kim, like the Kennedy's, is responsible for the deaths of multiple women AND collaboration with the Soviet Union and is still considered a hero and a "Lion" by the his base, just like the Kennedy's.

Henry said...

Inga said... "Here’s some monumental propaganda: “North Korea is no longer a threat.”."

No. That's hyperbole.

Inga said...

“Lloyd W Robertson @7:58... Are you messing with me? Did you not read me reaming out Sablan on the Biden thread yesterday? What did I say about you fucking pinky-lifters whining about Trump's manners? Take off your pussy hat and have a great steaming cup of SHUT YOUR PIE-HOLE! We don't give a damn if Trump is not your kind of sporting fellow. We don't care that you are upset that his pants aren't creased like Obama. We love that he isn't a "gentleman born loser like McCain and Romney and Ryan and Sasse and Flake and Graham and all the many other supine parasites who have been bleeding America for generations. We're on that kind of integrity kick!”

Oooooooo Damn! Lloyd you better run!

Drago said...

Henry: "No. That's hyperbole"

When I want to have a really, really large salad, I always use my hyper-bowl.

Drago said...

Let's try again:

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

Seeing Red said...

Well on that nuke thing. It sux to be Canada if it doesn’t reach its intended target.

Inga said...

“No. That's hyperbole.”

A lot of propaganda is hyperbolic. It’s propaganda.

FullMoon said...

The vid shows Rodman dunking the ball for about a second.
I saw Rodman on the apprentice and was not impressed with the weirdo.
I watched the CNN vid with Cuoma and Rodman and did a 180.

I think Rodman is the only friend Kim ever had. I hope Trump gives him more credit, which will impress KIm.

Of course, if Kim is the psycho the media makes him out to be, nothing ever said or done can be assured of being permanent. Kinda like Libya's agreements with USA.

Trump really needs to run in 2020 to solidify changes made during first term.

Ya gots your Dems and Repubs, but there is only one Trump.

Infinite Monkeys said...

We all know how that ended.

Winning the presidency over someone who was a "sure thing"?

Bruce Hayden said...

“Their nightmare is millions of starving refugees headed south.”

The xenophobic Han living north of there would also not be pleased with an army of starving refugees headed in their direction.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

There must be someone who reads/comments on Althouse who possesses a deep understanding of the history and peoples//subgroups of China/Korea and the potential impacts of movements of large numbers of peoples in that area.

Drago said...

Let's try again:

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

Henry said...

Ah, the non-sequitur that follows the misapplication of term that follows that hasty cut and paste.

The Wikipedia article on Propaganda is pretty interesting.

Seeing Red said...

IMHO, That sales pitch laid the world at his feet. Remember that video was sent 3 months ago. When Pudge threw his tantrum, that world went bye-bye. The world he could give his people instead was an inferior world, a shadow of that. Kim denukes, his statues are everywhere in North Korea and unlike Stalin and Lenin, they won’t be pulled down. Trump went for his ego. What’s the Asian Riviera?

Trump, the nation builder. Bwaaaaaaaaaa

Where would you rather gamble? Macau or an American protectorate? We win on air quality. And a less honorous (?) burden.

pacwest said...

"Why are people so afraid to use the truth when promoting their ideas?"

Now we know what happened to Althouse's keyboard. Considering the source you don't want to have a mouthful of coffee when you read something like that.

Inga said...

Propaganda is manipulative, do we want to be manipulated or do we want to hear the unvarnished truth and decide for ourselves if the idea is a worthy one?

Drago said...

Let's try again:

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

Michael K said...

Drago, some people are so open minded their brains fall out. I think we see one here.

I look forward to the fall campaign when the Democrats run on tax increases and war with North Korea.

Inga said...

“Now we know what happened to Althouse's keyboard. Considering the source you don't want to have a mouthful of coffee when you read something like that.”

Pacwood, I sense you’ve been been very hostile toward me the last few days. I don’t know or care what hornet flew up your boxers and stung you in the ass, but I am extremely honest in these threads, which often gets me in a lot of hot water with some folks here. So I suggest just putting some salve on your sore ass and stop impugning my honesty.

Seeing Red said...

Sometimes an analogy is the best way to change minds. Commitment to one side in a debate can lock minds into a framework. But take the same principles and apply them to an analogous situation where the locked in prejudices don't apply, and the blinders can fall away.

That is exactly what Ms. Attkisson has done with a column in The Hill. She takes on the ridiculous reasoning applied to justifying the FBI spying on the Trump campaign and applies it to bank robbery. She begins:...


Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/06/read_of_the_day_sharyl_attkisson_knocks_one_out_of_the_park_with_devastating_analogy.html#ixzz5IK69NMI0
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

Seeing Red said...

Taliban Denies It Is in ‘Secret Talks’ With NATO

Via Insty.


Is it me or do dominoes seem to be lining up to fall?

Drago said...

Michael K: "I look forward to the fall campaign when the Democrats run on tax increases and war with North Korea."

Well, that and
- Impeachment!
- Give back your tax cuts
- Get the hell back onto obamacare (where we promise if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor)
- Lets keep giving our national dollars to other nations (who are more deserving than the deplorables) through unfair trade deals
- Open Borders...absolutely open borders
- Free health care/tuition/drivers licenses/Get out of jail free cards for illegal aliens
- Yeah MS-13! Divine sparks EVERYWHERE!

Seeing Red said...

Broke Medicare for all!

Drago said...

Inga: "but I am extremely honest in these threads..."

Let's try again:

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

Kristian Holvoet said...

Don't forget;
Give us all your guns. Only our body guards and government employees should have guns (except teachers).

Darkisland said...

DK walser,

New Coke was not a flop. Coca cola never had any serious plans to replace regular Coke with it. They never retooled their principal concentrate /syrup, for example.

Here we are 30 years later still talking about it. Most importantly, talking about "Coke"

It was a huge success un rejuvenating regular, now "Classic" Coke.

And few people even see the enormous propaganda coup Coke pulled off.

"Flop" indeed.

John Henry

readering said...

"Some people are so open minded their brains fall out."

Demosthenes weeps.

Will Brown said...

It seems obvious that somebody around Kim monitors everything that is said in the U.S. media about him. He was quick to jump on Pence and Bolton. Maybe we should back off from Monday morning quarterbacking and barstool negotiating and let Trump bullshit the guy. What is the alternative, send our boys to fight for people who won't stand up and fight for themselves, yeah, let's lose 50000 kids for the North Koreans.

Gretchen said...

Will, what you say is true. However, the left is more interested in bringing down Trump, as are Rubio and other Rinos.

Drago said...

readering: "Demosthenes weeps"

Demosthenes is a Dead White European Male and has nothing to say to us in the modern world, plus the Greeks had slaves and stole all their learning from the Black Africans who were really the rulers of Egypt which is why Aristotle stole all his learning from the Library of Alexandria and then had the library burned to cheat the africans out of their intellectual inheritance.

The fact that all of that is absolutely insane does not for one moment mean it is not the prevailing thinking on universities run by lefties.

"hey hey ho ho Western Civ has got to go" said every lefty everywhere....

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Which also brings up the weird ultra-stupid phrase Lefties used yesterday on this topic: "How can you criticize the Iran deal and support this summit?"

Seeing Red said: Because a summit is not a deal?

Exactly! This is just the first of probably many meetings between the various parties. Trump and Kim. The N Korean representatives and the US representatives of the the countries. Perhaps even some representatives from other places like China and S Korea and even Japan.

Many meetings and much maneuvering before there is a Deal.

Sometimes I really truly think that the Lefties have the mental and emotional capacity of toddlers. "Waaaah I want it NOW!" They seem to want instant gratification and if they don't get it immediately they throw big temper tantrums.

Good God. Can we just put the Left in a time out for a while so we can get things done!!

Inga said...

“hey hey ho ho Western Civ has got to go" said every lefty everywhere....”

An example of hyperbolic propaganda.

Perfect.

Darkisland said...

Principal concentrate/syrup plant.

John Henry

mockturtle said...

It's not for us to decide what kind of leader the NORKs have. But let's let our President negotiate with Kim as a fellow world power and show him the way to economic progress and an improved standard of living for his people. And in the process help Kim to be the kind of leader he sees himself being. For us to start yapping about human rights at this stage is simple defeatism or, more accurately, moving the goal line to avoid a Trump/Kim success.

Drago said...

Inga: "An example of hyperbolic propaganda"

"Jesse Jackson and students protest Western Culture program on Palm Drive, photograph, 1987
By the mid-1980s, increasing dissatisfaction with the introductory humanities program known as “Western Culture” that had begun in 1980 came to the fore. The program was criticized for its lack of diversity and its predominantly Eurocentric readings. Students advocated for a curriculum that included ethnic minority and women authors. On January 15, 1987, as many as 500 students, along with the Reverend Jesse Jackson, rallied down Palm Drive chanting, "Hey hey, ho ho, Western Civ has got to go." The curriculum debate drew national attention, and in 1989 Western Culture was formally replaced with the Cultures, Ideas, & Values (CIV) program that included more inclusive works on race, class, and gender."

https://exhibits.stanford.edu/stanford-stories/feature/1980s

Drago said...

Inga: "but I am extremely honest in these threads..."

Let's try again:

Inga, was the Iran deal ever signed by the Iranians?

Was the Iran deal ever submitted to the US Senate for review and approval?

Were any aspects of the Iran deal kept secret from the American people and their elected representatives?

Were all elements deemed as positives by the Iranians "front-loaded"?

Were the Iranians given significant lead-time prior to any inspections?

Did the obama administration pressure US financial institutions to allow Iran to utilize our financial systems to obtain >$5Billion in funds even after obama delivered $150Billion to them?

Everyone will be watching to see if you have the intellectual honesty to address any of these questions.

mockturtle said...

It's not for us to decide what kind of leader the NORKs should have. Let's let our President negotiate with Kim as a fellow world power and show him the way to economic progress and an improved standard of living for his people. And in the process help Kim to be the kind of leader he sees himself being. For us to start yapping about human rights at this stage is simple defeatism or, more accurately, moving the goal line to avoid a Trump/Kim success.

Yancey Ward said...

The American media was the target, and they behaved exactly the way the people who made the video expected them to act. Trump 7, American Media 0.

Kim already knows the choice that is in front of him- he didn't need to be reminded of it. The video can only help push him in the right direction- whether it does so effectively or not is to be determined, but it literally cannot hurt.

The American media are desperate to see this effort fail, and so the video is sent out as chaff to draw the fire Trump's team expected to get. The criticisms of the media are so small minded and transparent that it makes them look truly idiotic.

Henry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seeing Red said...

Via Insty Byron York:

Have you heard people say war is not an option in North Korea, or that it is unthinkable? Trump started thinking about it. His top military officers worked through a number of scenarios for war on the Korean Peninsula. And while they were doing it, Trump escalated his anti-Kim rhetoric to unheard-of levels. Kim was “Little Rocket Man,” and North Korean aggression would be “met with fire, fury, and frankly power, the likes of which this world has never seen before.”

Trump later explained he did it because he believed the old way had not worked. “Other administrations … had a policy of silence,” he told Fox News’ Sean Hannity after the summit. “That’s not the answer. That’s not what you have to do. So I think the rhetoric — I hated to do it, sometimes I felt foolish doing it — but we had no choice.”



Talk about propaganda, you fell for it. Should we go back and revisit that thread? The hysteria here? While some of us were zen?

So, Inga, thank you for your attempt at enlightenment on “propaganda,” but once again,...ass handed.


Inga said...

“How can you criticize the Iran deal and support this summit?"

Here’s a better question.

How could Obama’s meeting with Raul Castro at the Summit of the America’s have been criticized, while Trump’s summit with Kim jong Un is lauded?

Henry said...

Not propaganda. A hasty generalization.

FullMoon said...

Adams vid too long for short attention span.

Assume he mentioned black and white images of NK turned to color as Kim shook hands with SK?

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