According to the linked TMZ article, that was not the only place on the Groupon site where the color-name "[n-word] brown" appeared. Of course, once an outcry arose, Groupon took the down the offensive material, attributed it to a "third-party seller," and asserted that the language was "completely unacceptable" and a violation of company policy and company "values." Of course companies have "values." Even if the only value was to maintain good relations with the public, the phrase "[n-word] brown" violates company values.
What crazy commercial enterprise would have values that approve of that? Claiming to have "values" about this is just plain meaningless. Perhaps a showing by Groupon that it is an excellent workplace for African-American employees would help with the PR in this situation. Because how does something like this happen?
A translation from French? Consider this passage from David Sedaris's "Theft by Finding: Diaries (1977-2002)":
March 13, 2002
Paris
Hugh and Manuela are wood-graining the study of a well-known actor. Yesterday they asked him what color carpet he’d chosen, and he answered, “Tête-de-nègre.” This translates to “nigger’s head,” and he repeated it several times. There was a black man installing baseboards in the next room, and when Hugh suggested he maybe keep it down, the actor said, “It’s not racist— it’s a color. Ask anyone.”
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88 comments:
Boots of color.
Usually you need to fire an employee and then not shut down his account to get an outcome like this.
One of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you.
What exactly is the problem with the word "nigger"? Black people use the word all of the time.
The third rail of colors.
Was there much swooning? Did emergency rooms fill up with strokes and conniption fits over the sight of this horrible horrible word that is casually used on a daily basis by millions across the black community?
I . . I don't even know what colour that's supposed to indicate! (although I can see the photo) There's a wide variation in skin tones even among Black people. Khoisan are quite light, for example, while Maasai are quite dark.
Chinese sellers ~ the cause of, and solution to, all American e-commerce problems!
The actual radioactive part of the word comes from IQ difference. A non-black using it will refer to that difference even if he doesn't want to because of where the word has been; a black using it will be referring to an equal and so has access to rogue sentiment fellow-feeling about it.
Sensitivity to it is actually an admission of sensitivity to a difference that you can't mention.
Why wouldn't negre translate as negro? Or is that an n-word too?
According to Wikipedia, Tête-de-nègre is a chocolate confection, nègre is French for Negro, and in French the offensive term is nègro.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Chinese sellers ~ the cause of, and solution to, all American e-commerce problems!
3/29/18, 7:01 AM
Yes, as soon as I saw the ad I thought it was a Chinese seller.
Re: rhhardin:
The actual radioactive part of the word comes from IQ difference. A non-black using it will refer to that difference even if he doesn't want to because of where the word has been; a black using it will be referring to an equal and so has access to rogue sentiment fellow-feeling about it.
I don't think that's how racial epithets work . . . it's racist for Chinese to call Whites gwailo (no matter what wikipedia tries to tell you), but it's not racist just because Whites have lower average IQ than Chinese -- it's racist because it's a term of contempt. Certainly, like Blacks with the N-word, some Whites "appropriate" the term as an in-group term, but that's not the same as it not being offensive.
Oh, my link's broken. Here. Here's the excuse for why gwailo isn't racist:
Catherine Wang for Hong Kong Free Press explains why "gweilo" is not derogatory: "Yes, 'gweilo' points out whiteness. Yes, 'gweilo' can be used in a derogatory sense, like most phrases known to man. But is gweilo morally corrupt, 'extremely racist', and inexcusable? No. Because behind 'gweilo', unlike most racially charged terms, is a history of resistance to oppression rather than its perpetration."
Which is a bunch of rubbish.
Other than “Boots,” name a popular Nancy Sinatra song.
I don't know of any insult terms for whites. I mean that whites are bothered by, whatever the asians mean by it.
They're dumber than east asians, but it does't bother them. They're better at other stuff, like government and innovation and economic systems. The cooperation gene.
Other than “Boots,” name a popular Nancy Sinatra song.
Jackson.
Nancy is widely Denigrated.
In 2002 I took my son to get new cleats for football. The outside of the boxes were marked with size and color. Almost all of the colors were "negro", and few white. We bought the Puma, made in Taiwan.
I'd bet on translation error - and Pants is probably right about the source. This is hardly the first time I've seen something like this.
Maybe what's needed is sensitivity and diversity training for the people having the vapors about this. If you're going to participate in international e-commerce, you need the multi-cultural awareness necessary to understand that people selling things you want to buy aren't necessarily up on your taboos and euphemisms.
(And regardless of how or how much Groupon grovels, most people just laugh when they see big gaffes like that, not get palpitations.)
"I don't know of any insult terms for whites. I mean that whites are bothered by, whatever the asians mean by it."
In a previous job many years ago I had a black admin asst. He had many discussions about black and white issues. I asked her that very question. She asked "You've never heard the work 'peckerwood'?"
I couldn't stop laughing. (And "no" until then, I'd never heard it.)
Balfegor: Which is a bunch of rubbish.
Forget it, Balf, it's Wikipedia. Any non-rubbish on the subject will be swiftly edited away by the goodthink patrol. (There's a badthink division among wiki-nerds, but they're vastly outnumbered.)
rhhardin: I don't know of any insult terms for whites. I mean that whites are bothered by, whatever the asians mean by it.
They're dumber than east asians, but it does't bother them. They're better at other stuff, like government and innovation and economic systems. The cooperation gene.
This is an exmaple of how what I call "bwana syndrome" manifests in spergs.
How about gringo, etc.?
@AllenS Why don't you ask black people? That would be the forthright, courageous approach to airing this old question. Asking it on an old white lady's blog is just fusty and boring.
@AllenS Why don't you ask black people?
It's a white hangup.
Whites don't feel insulted by any other group.
Too much confidence. Look at them flailing pointlessly away, they think.
White kids are not allowed to use the n-word, not even to discuss the n-word. A silly rule, especially when the same white kids listen to black rappers and buy the music that makes extensive use of the n-word. While they may not use the word aloud (and they certainly disapprove of anyone who does), that word must run through their minds all day long.
"Other than “Boots,” name a popular Nancy Sinatra song."
"Something Stupid"
And I didn't look it up.
Frank Sinatra is on the recording too, so it's kind of cheating.
But she got a lot of mileage out of those boots.
And that parentage.
Other than “Boots,” name a popular Nancy Sinatra song.
Something Stupid.
Was that popular? (Was Boots? Sort of, I guess)
(Comes back from google)
Wow, Something Stupid went to #1. Okay, maybe that's because Frank was singing too.
See my post above and google tête-de-nègre, which indeed is used for a color.
However, it should not be translated as "niggerhead," since "niggerhead" in American English means a half-buried boulder that can wreck a wagon wheel, and assorted other things depending on the locality. Just use tête-de-nègre or look up the nearest color on a color chart.
rhhardin:
Whites don't feel insulted by any other group.
Too much confidence. Look at them flailing pointlessly away, they think.
Another example of "bwana syndrome", as it presents in spergs/right-leaning bwanas.
Not as funny as the liberal variant, but just as clueless.
Here’s what WordReference says:
“WordReference English-French Dictionary © 2018:
Formes composées
Français Anglais
tête de nègre nf (confiserie) (UK, equivalent) chocolate teacake n
(US, equivalent ®) Mallomar n”
Because how does something like this happen?
Why did Craiglist take down it's personal ads?
Third party sellers.
As for derogatory terms about people of European ancestry, why limit the question to Black people? Ask any non-European person familiar with the language(s) spoken in the country of his/her origin!
This is, or might be, one for "engrish.com".
"A Chinese software company, Kingsoft Corp., acknowledged their translation program was at fault."
I don't think anyone will surpass the "Server Translate Error" Restaurant for Engrish-y fun.
Richard Pryor and Chevy Chase explain it all for you in 1975
AA: @AllenS Why don't you ask black people? That would be the forthright, courageous approach to airing this old question. Asking it on an old white lady's blog is just fusty and boring.
I dunno, he doesn't want to lose his job or be subjected to a struggle session?
It's a rhetorical question, Althouse. It's not like nobody has taken the forthright, courageous approach on this question in the past. The point is is that the answers are, or rather, the answer is, always unsatisfactory. ("You have to shut up and accept my opinions because historical oppression".)
In the worst case, you get the struggle session or the sack (or even a beatdown). Otherwise, you get the sort of self-serving, "heads I win, tails you lose" bullshit that Balfegor points out @7:14, above.
Why do you presume to discuss the subject at all, if being an old white lady delegitimizes anything you have to say on the subject, anyway?
If only there were a word with a Latin root in English that we could use! How unfortunate that “negro” has been nuked and is unavailable. We’ll just have to use “nigger” instead.
Is that what’s happening here?
When Owen Wister (the narrator) gets to Medicine Bow, he's shocked to hear Steve causally call the Virginian a "Son of A Bitch". The Virginian ignores it as if it was just words (apparently in New York in 1885 they were Fighting Words). Owen decides that Wyoming is different than New York.
Later that evening, Trampas tells the Virginian "it's your bet, you Son of a Bitch"
To which, the Virginian pulls out his pistol, lays in on the table (pointing at Trampas) and says: "When you call me that, Smile"
I suspect many words in many places are the same. If we had open carry, I think we'd have a lot more smiling.
So the color is called Nazi Brown?
"Something Stupid" is a great song.
* Clever, oh-so-true lyrics
* A male-female duet
* Nice melody
* Well performed
* Two Sinatras
Well, my husband's grandmother from Arkansas got around the conundrum of Negro, Negra, Nigger etc and just called all the 'blacks' she knew in her little town.... Darkies.
She felt that Darkie (sp) was much more respectful than Nigger. Of course when she was speaking directly TO them she addressed the person as Miss Amy or Mr Leon (or whatever their first name was). Or used the honorific and Last Name. Missus Jackson.
They did the same when speaking to her Miss (First name) or Missus (Last name)
Politeness goes a long way to people being able to get along.
Fixed my typos :-)
“@AllenS Why don't you ask black people? That would be the forthright, courageous approach to airing this old question. Asking it on an old white lady's blog is just fusty and boring”
Forthright and courageous like coyly writing “the n-word” instead of “nigger”? You do realize that when you do so, you are implicitly saying that Black people are so fragile and ridiculous that they can’t be exposed to a written quote of a word?
Really, burning a cross in a city park would be less viscerally racist.
We need a neutral term for inferior race.
Must be a rap apparel company. They thought they were immune.
Re: rhhardin:
Too much confidence. Look at them flailing pointlessly away, they think.
You're from an earlier generation, I would guess. Or perhaps you're young, but didn't grow up in a racially mixed environment like California. If you think White children aren't hurt when people mock them for being inferior or making up the "bottom half of the bell curve" due to their race, well, you're delusional. If we prick them, Whites bleed like anyone else.
I think in earlier generations, Whites were an overwhelming majority and did have that kind of cultural confidence. In many places, they're no longer an overwhelming majority, and that cultural confidence isn't inculcated into them anymore.
I was working on an upgrade to a Forest Highway in the state of Washington many years ago. In our dusty, old files I found a 1948 soils report. It described one segment as having numerous "nigger heads". Innocent, young engineer that I was, I quietly asked my supervisor what in the world did THAT mean. He held his hands about 8 inches apart and said, "Solid, round rocks".
He was quite casual about it. The innocent, young engineer less so. But, even then, I knew that history could not be changed. And, insults aside, the report was valuable for road design.
the ad was probably put together from an employee from the south side of Chicago. That word is commonly used among certain groups and the employee didn't know any better.
Balfegor: If you think White children aren't hurt when people mock them for being inferior or making up the "bottom half of the bell curve" due to their race, well, you're delusional. If we prick them, Whites bleed like anyone else.
I don't think peer-to-peer racial slurs in themselves would be a problem. What makes it poisonous is that the white kids aren't allowed to "give as good as they get" (as was the case, say, in the tough multi-ethnic immigrant neighborhood my dad grew up in).
It wouldn't even be so bad if all the crap they got was from non-white authority figures, if it were countered by white adults and authority figures giving as good as they got. What makes it truly noxious are the oblivious, screwed-up white adults and authority figures shitting all over whites and Western history and culture all day every day in the lives of impressionable young people.
Listen, Althouse, when blacks use the word "nigger" around me, I could care less that they use the word. So, when I say What exactly is the problem with the word "nigger"? that sentence is for people like you to answer, because the word does not bother me.
rhhardin said...
We need a neutral term for inferior race.
We need an offensive term for inferior words. -willie
"Nigger" is simply a Southern pronunciation of "negro", Spanish for "black". Blacks will say things like "Don't call me negro or nigger, call me black", which is the same as saying "Don't call me black or black, call me black."
Nobody has ever accused those people of intelligence.
What are peeps fascinated with "Nigger"
Remember when Furman was asked in the OJ Simpson trial if he ever said "Nigger" and when he said "no" - all the TV commentators were like "Oh, that's not possible"
I've never used the word, and don't know anyone who has.
Maybe its a Southern/Eastern thing.
LBJ used to say "Nigra"
Colored used to be the "correct" term until after WW2
Then it was "Negro" -which is just Spanish for "Black".
Then it was "Afro-American" but that was replaced by "Black".
"Whites don't feel insulted by any other group.
Too much confidence. Look at them flailing pointlessly away, they think."
I think I'm pretty far from 'Sperg territory, but I agree with RH here. I've been called cracker, honkey, and other things; once I was even called polar bear. None of it bothered me in the slightest. A few times, it was black or hispanic friends calling me that, and it was all in jest. Other times it was an attempt at derogation, but I couldn't have cared less. I don't even think it's my confidence that prevented the insult from striking home - I think it has more to do with how ridiculous the insult is to begin with.
"You do realize that when you do so, you are implicitly saying that Black people are so fragile and ridiculous that they can’t be exposed to a written quote of a word?"
It's not that they're so fragile, but that they're so violent. Many of them, the same ones who use the word as much as they use the words "shit" "ass" and "fuck" (most can't complete even one sentence without using at least one of them) would actually physically attack a white person for saying it. You know the saying about sticks and stones? They don't.
Propensity for violence and low IQ are are as much their racial traits as dark skin and wide noses.
rhhardin said...
We need a neutral term for inferior race.
I thought we had settled on ginger.
Ah, diversity, the liberal bigotry. African-American, the half-breeds. They will never be American in the diversitist's mind. And, so it progresses.
In German-speaking Switzerland they are still sold as Mohrenkopf.[38][39] In the French-speaking part of Switzerland as well as France they are known as Têtes Choco ("chocolate heads"), or and more commonly as Tête-de-nègre in France.[40] [from Wikipedia]
Tasty Chocolate covered marshmallow
The taboos around words are culturally and politically specific. On these things the US intelligentsia is quite parochial. Parts of it of course are not so parochial, but for political reasons they pretend to be.
For some reason I suddenly have a craving for a Brazil nut or a Brach's Creme Drop.
Chocolate head?
Tetes Choco?
I think you misspelled Ta-Nehisi Coates
Kyzernick: I've been called cracker, honkey, and other things; once I was even called polar bear. None of it bothered me in the slightest. A few times, it was black or hispanic friends calling me that, and it was all in jest. Other times it was an attempt at derogation, but I couldn't have cared less.
Could you not care less if your young children were being fed "whites are the root of all evil" bullshit in their schools, while at the same time they (but not the other kids) were getting punished for dishing out what they were taking from the other kids? There is no context in which those slurs were being used that you wouldn't just tell you kid, "if you just have self-confidence anti-white racism can't hurt you"?
No? Then you have a serious case of great-white-bwana syndrome. "Other people's racism can never hurt me or mine! I'm Mighty Whitey, impervious to the racial animosity of lesser breeds..."
I'm not bothered in the slightest by my friends calling me a cracker or a honkey, or random derogatory comments per se, either.
IiB: "I thought we had settled on ginger."
Lol.
têtes de nègres translates to "heads of negroes"
However, the pronunciation of nègre is pretty much the same as our n-word.
Many French pronounce the mutes (like the 'e' on the end) these days. It used to be you only pronounced them in lyrics or poetry (artsy-fartsy). So you say -uh".
For example I always say ay-twahl-uh for étoile because I think it sounds sexy.
Say man-ya-fee-kuh.
White paddy
White paddy,
You don't shine
Call me nigger again,
I'll kick your behind
tcrosse said...Say man-ya-fee-kuh
kiss, kiss, kiss...
"Because how does something like this happen?"
Because no human being vets every coupon some third party makes?
I mean, all Groupon really is is an API for participants to make coupons, and a service for handling redemption of same. Groupon itself doesn't make any of its offers or content, as far as I know.
It'd cost far too much to have someone vet all input content, and it would be the most boring job on Earth, too.
A case of the much heralded "white privilege". There is also black privilege, brown privilege, yellow privilege, pink privilege, etc. that corresponds to community diversity, a case of principals before principles (depending on the established principles, which are commonly Pro-Choice or selective). More often, it is simply a matter of privilege that is only incidentally related to color (e.g. a common malaise that affected American "indians", African-Africans, etc.) judgments, often based on merit (e.g. charisma), but also based on Choice (e.g. equivocation) or congruence (i.e. leverage quotient).
Rhhardin is right. Whites are not sensitive to derogatory terms about the white race. That's part of the privilege of being white. Whites are somewhat sensitive to being called privilege, however. Blacks have to work harder at it, but they can usually find a way to grievously insult white people......I witnessed one black guy in handcuffs who was pissed at the arresting officers. He asked one officer how he could fuck his partner's fat ass with his faggoty little white dick. He had a number of lines like that. The surrounding crowd thought the lines were funny, the arresting officers less so.
Re: Sigivald --
A reasonable objection is that you'd think their software would be scanning for vulgarities, including the N-word, and would kick it up for human review or resubmission automatically. It's not particularly complicated to put in a simple screen that would catch something like this. I think most online services have something similar to catch profane usernames. It's harder if it's hidden as an acrostic or something, but that's not what we have here.
WEB Griffin, in his excellent historical fiction series Men at Arms, has a scene wherein a new black lieutenant gets his black tanker troops to stop calling each other motherf**kers by pointing out that it implies the person so addressed has incestuous sexual activities with their mother, a truly embarrassing action. He also addresses the other favorite word used among the troops, n****r, pointing out that it refers to the Spanish word for the color black and a country in Africa, and carries no dishonor in being so addressed. The troops stop calling each other m-f'ers, but continue to use the N word in a friendly manner. There are fewer fights over name calling, and an esprit de corps is developed by the new understanding the troops have of their new favorite eptithet. The NCOs realize their new lieutenant isn't so wet behind the ears after all.
He later shoots a white officer in the back for retreating without orders in Korea. Good books.
Some Velvet Morning? As a jr high kid, I had no idea what this song meant, but I found it (strangely?) moving.
And I had no idea that Vanilla Fudge covered this song. Whoa.
And then just to give credence to the position that Facebook, Google (including YouTube), et al, need to be broken up, just look at what YouTube decided to seque into after the VF cover. Whoa on steroids.
Though I must admit, this last song definitely influenced my (yet-future) bass player sensibilities.
"Listen, Althouse, when blacks use the word "nigger" around me, I could care less that they use the word. So, when I say What exactly is the problem with the word "nigger"? that sentence is for people like you to answer, because the word does not bother me."
I'm saying why don't you ask them if they've got a problem with white people saying it. The answer is well known. My point to you is that I'm simply extraordinarily bored by the stock observation that black people seem to be able to say the word, etc. etc. My suggestion that you take it up with black people reflects the view that white people who speak the way I have are just adopting the preference of black people. We've done that out of consideration and respect. If they day ever comes when black people encourage white people to use that word, it would become a nonproblem.
What black people want would be a lot simpler if they didn't identify as black people.
Their preferences would then be in line with everybody else's.
I'm saying why don't you ask them if they've got a problem with white people saying it.
It's a white hangup, not a black one. The word claims to notice blacks are dumber than whites when a white person uses it, and you're not allowed to notice that.
I'm highly offended when white people are called or assumed to be racist for virtually anything, but if the day ever comes when white people encourage black people to use that word carelessly, it would become a nonproblem. As it stands, calling white people "racist" haphazardly is far more racist in intent than using the word "nigger" like I just did here.
These boots are made for diversity or color judgments.
Still, this is better than the racket that extorted redistributive change from Hallmark over the "black hole" semantic misalignment.
AA: My point to you is that I'm simply extraordinarily bored by the stock observation that black people seem to be able to say the word, etc. etc. My suggestion that you take it up with black people reflects the view that white people who speak the way I have are just adopting the preference of black people. We've done that out of consideration and respect.
It's not boring at all, it's a question pointing at a very interesting and complicated reality. It's boring to you because of the tedious frame you use. In there, I agree, it's extraordinarily boring.
LBJ used to say "Nigra"
Colored used to be the "correct" term until after WW2
Then it was "Negro" -which is just Spanish for "Black".
Then it was "Afro-American" but that was replaced by "Black".
Which then was replaced with "African-American".
My father was from Virginia, and he told me they typically referred to blacks as "Nigras". Unfortunately, he also used "nigger" from time to time. He told me had gotten into fights because he was called "nigger-lover" if he asked some clown why he was picking on some unfortunate nigger.
Toward the end of his life, he grew more tolerant in his political and social outlook. I asked him once about "nigger-lover", and he said, "That word is no longer in my vocabulary". People do change.
For several years, I occasionally asked black people what jokes they told about white people, considering white people tell Mexican jokes, black jokes, Italian jokes, Polack jokes, and so on.
Most people were kind of shocked. "Bob, we don't tell no white folks jokes!' But one woman told me, "I really had to think about your question, because we don't really tell white jokes. We just laugh at y'all on account of you bein' white."
This was in 1986 when the Friday the Thirteenth movies were big. The woman got on the subject of why you never see a black person in a horror film, and she got very emphatic about it.
"It's like if a black person hears a strange sound, they say, 'I'm getting the hell outta here'! The white person has to go investigate. And they get killed!"
Suddenly, I thought of Buckwheat in the Our Gang comedies, with his huge eyes and hair made to stand on end. And I understood why blacks were sometimes called "spooks".
Black and white are in the eye of the beholder. They should not be the content of the conversation.
Black and white people who still use the urban dictionary as an authoritative reference are insular with a predisposition to color judgments (i.e. diversity). Most people relate through an established (not living) language, and a reconciliation of character. There are enough words and permutations for everyone, without cultural appropriation and misappropriation.
I'm all for consideration and respect. But when they're demanded, on pain of shunning, public shaming, loss of career, and sometimes personal injury, I turn a mite churlish.
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