January 16, 2018

Isn't it nice that the Germans can feel comfortable portraying the American President as a monkey?



So much freedom.

Feuer. I know it means fire. But when I try to say it out loud....

Anyway, speaking of making America great again or, I should say getting back to where we were before, I remember spending the Bush years seeing this set of images posted on the door of the office of one of my law school colleagues:



But of course there was no way at all that President Obama could be depicted as any sort of a nonhuman primate (or even any animal at all). Here's the NPR explanation from 2011: "Portraying Obama As Chimp Not Like Showing Bush As One."

But now we've got Trump, the man who will "take all the heat you want to give" him. And even the Germans — who I would have thought would self-censor forever — relax into the freedom of depicting the President as an ape.



IN THE COMMENTS: John Henry says (referring to the Spiegel cover):
I look at the picture and see a progression from glorious manhood (Clinton. He got blown in the oval office! What a man!) to slightly cromagnon (Bush. Kinda stupid but looking better as time passes) to almost Monkey (Obama. How is this not racist?) To full on monkey (Trump. Why?)

Forget it Jake. It's Germany. Racism is baked in.

231 comments:

1 – 200 of 231   Newer›   Newest»
Rusty said...

Sure.
Freedom of speech.
No matter how hateful.
In fact I prefer it. When the mask slips you at least know who you're really dealing with.
Which, for the most part, are very immature adults.

Kevin said...

Coolest monkey in the jungle.

Darkisland said...

I look at the picture and see a progression from glorious manhood (Clinton. He got blown in the oval office! What a man!) to slightly cromagnon (Bush. Kinda stupid but looking better as time passes) to almost Monkey (Obama. How is this not racist?) To full on monkey (Trump. Why?)

Forget it Jake. It's Germany. Racism is baked in.

John Henry

Luke Lea said...

Trump as Gorilla works best.

Derek Kite said...

The Germans if anyone know that power comes from fear. The media has power because it is feared. Trump said openly that he doesn't fear the media, they have no power.

They are going to destroy themselves in an attempt to prove their power.

They spent the last 5 days is it talking about nothing except sh**holes.

David said...

Hatred of the Other is not just for racists.

rehajm said...

When you do things like this you lose the ability to portray yourself as an intellectual better.

Darkisland said...

What happens if, as he should, President Trump says "The heck with it, let Germany defend its own borders. We have no dog in any European fight."

Germans should be nicer to President Trump. After all, he is crazy. He might pull out of NATO.

We've twice pulled Europe's chestnuts from the fire for no good reason on our part. I think they may expect us to do it again. Fuck 'em and their shithole countries. (That's me talking, not President Trump)

John Henry

Auntie Trump said...

I always pictured Obama more as an organ grinder’s monkey, wearing a little fez, and running around the country collecting money in his little cup.

Auntie Trump said...

This is from a place where fans throw bananas at black soccer players.

Kevin said...

It’s OK to portray a person as a monkey.

Unless they are black.

Because they...

Christopher said...

Ever wonder how much of our current situation is the consequence of leftists in the media and govt. spending eight straight years calling Bush a racist/sexist/homophobe?

People warned them that they were devaluing such words.

Oh, well.

Auntie Trump said...

Imagine stopping off at a store to buy bananas on your way to a match.

retail lawyer said...

So its more fun to have a White POTUS! Bush was Chimpy McHitler Burton. Think of the creative freedom intellectuals and professors once had, and have again. Cartoons are Great Again. With Obama you had to consult the chin-stroking historians at NPR. You could be racist with any utterance - hit was a mine field out there. How am I supposed to know all this history stuff? I have a day job.

Thanks for the cites. I've been wondering wondering why the obvious was never mentioned.

Auntie Trump said...

Maybe their wives pack them for them.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

White some allowance can be given Althouse in the Age of Bullshit, Trump is not being depicted as a monkey on the cover of Der Spiegel. It’s a homo habilis or possibly homo heidelbergenis.

Tommy Duncan said...

When that's all you've got you go with it.

Thoughtful coverage of an insightful narrative, eh?

Lyssa said...

I had an anthropology undergrad class in 2001, and the professor showed that series of pictures of Bush and the chimps (or a very similar set). She promised that this was just to demonstrate the anthropological similarities, and that she had done the same series with other presidents as well, on the basis that the president was simply the most photographed man out there, so it was easy to find the needed pictures.
I always was tempted to try to find out if she continued that practice with Obama. I'm sure that the answer was no, though. I wonder if she's back on it now.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

And let's not forget the powerful German resentment against America (and Britain) for beating the stuffing out of them twice.

When it comes to choosing national leadership, I don't think we need to listen to the Germans.

jwl said...

I've read that scientists think red hair gene originates with neanderthals who passed it onto homo sapiens way back when.

AReasonableMan said...

Two points:

a) Trump is more accurately characterized as a hominid in that illustration rather than a monkey.

b) At least they are not socialists.

Once written, twice... said...

The difference of course that Ann refuses to acknowledge is that President Obama elevated the office of the Presidency through how he handled himself. Trump has debased our civic discourse. Trump has said and done much worse than this magazine cover. Trump presents himself as a buffoonish braggart and bully. But Ann won’t acknowledge this obvious difference that has led the rest of the governments of the world to pull away from us. (Except of course nations like Russia and Saudi Arabia who like that sort of thing.)

Ann, you can pretend the above distinction doesn’t exist, but it just makes you look intellectually dishonest and foolish. But keep doubling down on Trump.

tcrosse said...

There was a lot of German scholarship about Untermenschen which doesn't seem to have gone away. Maybe they have a Final Solution in mind.

Once written, twice... said...

Ann won’t also be intellectual honest and acknowledge that every president has been depicted by their most ardent distractors going back to the beginning. Lincoln was compared to an ape.

And yes, given that Obama was our first African American president, it was different with him as it should have been. Ann knows that, but she can’t be intellectually honest there as well.

Jersey Fled said...

Characterizing a Republican president as a monkey makes you look sooooo smart to your equally enlightened liberal friends.

MrCharlie2 said...

Is Ms Althouse now a strange variety of what-abouter? Perhaps she needs a job to keep her connected to the wider world. Or was this irony served too dry?

Right wing media was filled with monkey images of the Obamas and I suppose it still is. My crazy right-wing mother-in-law forwarded 100s of these funny images, along with the witch doctor stuff, etc etc.

I suppose there is some difference between Der Spiegel and New Yorker and 10,000 geriatric mail lists. But those geezers probably didn't make the images, and for their next trick they elected a really bizarre president.

Limited blogger said...

haha, the joke is on them

Once written, twice... said...

Same with “hanging in effigy” displays of presidents. I don’t think it should be done with any president, but of course given the long ugly history in this country, with President Obama the context was much worse and that deserved to be acknowledged and called out. But Ann probably doesn’t acknowledge that distinction as well.

Once written, twice... said...

But Ann needs to serve up her extra salted daily red meat to her Althouse Hillbillies that camp out on her porch here.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

It's only racist when the left say it's racist. And that's always, you racist.

tcrosse said...

But is was Trump who made monkeys out of those geniuses in the Clinton campaign.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Remember when Obama called Libya a "shitshow"?

Oh yes he did. Leftwing outrage? *crickets*. Coincidentally, Hillary turned Libya into a real shitshow. Thanks, Hillary.

MrCharlie2 said...

yea, what about that?

Auntie Trump said...

Oh look, the most racist commenter in the history of this blog is back

LordSomber said...

Die Deutschen have long mastered the art of projection.

Once written, twice... said...

Portraying President Bush as an ape is at worse in poor taste. Doing the same of our first African American president has potentially a much different impact and meaning. Intellectual honest people acknowledge the difference here. Morally decent people as well.

chickelit said...

Wolff’s editor rejected the author’s original title: “The Fire And The Furor”.

Anyone recall Davids Medienkritik, a Bush II era watchdog of German political media bias?

Sebastian said...

Figures. The Germans have long had a thing for portraying the Other as subhuman.

CWJ said...

"Maybe their wives pack them for them."

Thread winner.

Once written, twice... said...

Trump heritage is German. How can this German magazine cover of him be racist?

But of course Ann and her tag alongs sees racism THERE!

I guess it hurts their white pride which must be defended.

Quaestor said...

Once written, twice... wrote: And yes, given that Obama was our first African American president, it was different with him as it should have been. Ann knows that, but she can’t be intellectually honest there as well.

"Once written" ought to consider the beam in his own eye before gloating over a putative mote in the eye of his host. The admission of facts not in evidence is the height of intellectual dishonesty. Secondly, the claim that Obama must be spared the ape treat because of racism is both lazy and arguably false. Exempting him from such caricatures is racist. Propagandists who have denigrated any American President of any party are contemptible, including Althouse's former colleague, and deserve the condemnation of all fair-minded citizens, however, banning such depictions of Obama is racist because it assumes blacks need special protection, a claim in direct opposition to assertions of racial equality.

"Once written" will undoubtedly assail this comment and its author with a barrage of leftist shibboleths and personal insults, but I believe I enjoy the superior position in that I made a logical argument in defense of my thesis instead of blithely assuming the self-evident truth of my assumptions.

SayAahh said...

Monkey business. See the Dow Jones Industrial average.

Fernandistein said...

Der Spiegel's online catalog is offline. So they might be cranky.

MayBee said...

IT may have been different to call Obama an ape or a monkey, but any criticism of him was painted as racist.

chickelit said...

German opinion is laughably weak, flaccid and untenable even. It has no staying power outside of German-speaking territory. They utterly lack influence in the anglosphere. That’s why it was disturbing when Obama cozied up to Merkel: he gave their twisted notions oxygen.

Rob McLean said...

Intellectual honest people acknowledge the difference here. Morally decent people as well.

The fact that "intellectual(ly) honest" and "morally decent" people voted for Obama but not Bush (or Trump) is just a coincidence, of course.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Why on earth would the left nominate Hillary or Bernie? They are both WHITE.

Clearly the modern left is a collective white supremacist shitshow.

Once written, twice... said...

Acknowledging that there is a quite different context in depicting President Obama as an ape compared to that of our other presidents is not reverse racism or offering “special protection.” It is acknowledging that such depictions of African Americans has a long an ugly history.

But of course you and Ann don’t want to acknowledge this distinction. It is not unfair to ask “why?”

chickelit said...

@Dickin’: The left actually wants an Oprah or a Kamela - both tougher sells.

Auntie Trump said...

The history of the term “hillbilly” doesn’t matter. Poor whites are obviously racist. It’s the power they have over others that makes them racist.

Quaestor said...

Propagandists who have denigrated any American President of any party are contemptible, including Althouse's former colleague, and deserve the condemnation of all fair-minded citizens...

Clarification, denigrated as subhuman.

Once written... wrote: Ann won’t also be intellectual honest and acknowledge that every president has been depicted by their most ardent distractors going back to the beginning. Lincoln was compared to an ape.

More dishonesty. Depicted how? As subhuman? I challenge you to defend that claim with evidence.

Gahrie said...

Ann won’t also be intellectual honest and acknowledge that every Republican president has been depicted by their most ardent distractors going back to the beginning. Lincoln was compared to an ape.

FTFY

chickelit said...

@Once: The preferred stereotype during the Bush II era (for the Germans) was the white cowboy. Don’t tell me that the Germans don’t use racial stereotypes.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

All deplorables to the ovens.

Quaestor said...

Intellectual honest people acknowledge the difference here. Morally decent people as well.

Yet another claim of self-evident truth. What a hypocrite you are, "Once written".

Gahrie said...

The difference of course that Ann refuses to acknowledge is that President Obama elevated the office of the Presidency through how he handled himself.

Says who?

Once written, twice... said...

Ann and her tag alongs obsess about race and how they may be the real victims of discrimination. Trump is happy to crassly play to this segment of the country that have these feelings. This segment is well represented on this blog and Ann is happy to feed these sentiments as well.

This explains Ann’s two years of pimping this buffoon.

chickelit said...

That Trump defies normal stereotypes led the Germans to the inapt monkey portrayal. It just shows how clueless they are about American culture, even while they pretend to be experts.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Chickl

Many on the left are butt-hurt because Obama should have become a permanent president. They forget that Hillary is WHITE.

Quaestor said...

Typo alert: Secondly, the claim that Obama must be spared the ape treat because of racism is both lazy and arguably false.

Corrected: Secondly, the claim that Obama must be spared the ape treatment because of racism is both lazy and arguably false.

james james said...

A few other Spiegel covers:

"... Weekly German news magazine Der Spiegel is facing criticism over its latest front cover, which features Donald Trump beheading the Statue of Liberty...."

"...A copy of the German Magazine 'Der Spiegel' is displayed for its cover of U.S President Donald Trump wearing the hood of the Ku Klux Klan..."

"...Der Spiegel depicts Trump as an asteroid headed for Earth..."

German magazine Stern also gets in on the fun:

"...This week’s cover of a popular German news magazine depicting US President Donald Trump draped in the American flag while giving a stiff-armed Nazi salute..."

A good thing that the Germans aren't a people to go overboard with their ideology.

-jj

exiledonmainstreet said...

I'm sure Once, Written was quite indignant when a leftist cartoonist portrayed Condi Rice as Prissy from Gone With the Wind, right?

Because such depictions of AAs have a long ugly history.

Oh, wait, Condi was working for a Republican president. So that's different.

chickelit said...

I an, should the Germans have caricatured Trump as Hitler in a subtle way that only they could pull off? No guts no glory.

Birches said...

When you do things like this you lose the ability to portray yourself as an intellectual better.

Yep. All the people who constantly tell us Trump is unfit sure end up looking pretty unfit themselves.

Quaestor said...

Ann and her tag alongs obsess about race and how they may be the real victims of discrimination...

More libel and invective without evidentiary support. "Once written", you have no standing to critique anyone's honesty or motives.

This explains Ann’s two years of pimping this buffoon.

An "explanation" offered to buffoons by a poltroon.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Imagine if Hillary had won and a conservative publication depicted her as an ape. (Or, more accurately, as a sow with her snout in the trough of the Clinton Foundation cash.) Oh, how Once Written would blubber and scream…

Once written, twice... said...

Both sides of my family are from the south and were poor and often lacked in formal schooling. They were definitely NOT Hillbillies.

Ann, Meade, and her tag alongs know the distinction here as well, though they pretend otherwise.

traditionalguy said...

"Tarzan 45." What more can we ask for in our President. A stable genius Gorilla who lives by the work ethic released by the truth in Calvin's Institutes.

Frau Merkle's Globalists are going insane watching him destroy their Fourth Reich.

Auntie Trump said...

Use the term “crackers,” once. Not a native speaker of the language, I am guessing.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Once Written, I laugh at your chronic butthurt....

Auntie Trump said...

Oh, he is a native speaker, well, then I guess he just likes the racism part. Bigots always think that their bigotry elevates them.

chickelit said...

Once bitten obviously descends from some noble race...

Quaestor said...

Ann, Meade, and her tag alongs know the distinction here as well, though they pretend otherwise.

Says the butthurt monger of red herrings in ad hominem sauce.

Once written, twice... said...

Responding to exileonmainstreet—

A local talk show host in my area did racially disparage Secretary Rice. He was roundly condemned for his ugly remarks. As he should have been.

Amadeus 48 said...

"Both sides of my family are from the south and were poor and often lacked in formal schooling. They were definitely NOT Hillbillies."

Yeah, they must have been chimps. Got it.

Amadeus 48 said...

"A local talk show host in my area did racially disparage Secretary Rice. He was roundly condemned for his ugly remarks. As he should have been."

In Argentina?

Once written, twice... said...

Amadeus, they were self-educated, read the Bible in a serious way and tried to live there lives with honor and decency towards others.

Fernandistein said...

Famous Germans!

Adolf Hitler - his ideas led to millions of deaths.

Albert Einstein - his ideas led to tens-of-thousands of deaths.

Karl Marx - his ideas led to millions of deaths.

Ludwig van Beethoven - pop musician.

Martin Luther - his ideas led to Hitler.

Angela Merkel - her ideas are leading to the destruction of Germany - yay!

Angel-Dyne said...

Quaestor: More libel and invective without evidentiary support. "Once written", you have no standing to critique anyone's honesty or motives.

I wouldn't take her that seriously. "Once" and the rest of the usual suspects are demoralized, reduced to re-cycling stale talking points that failed the first 100 times they were tried, and impotent moral scolding. (I don't include Inga in this group. She's still cheerful and optimistic, because...well, bless her heart.)

I think it's nice that Althouse provides a venue for them to unload their frustration.

Mac McConnell said...

"Hillbilly", "Cracker" and "Redneck" are all fair game because they are not the white man's burden. Racist much?

Obama as the witch doctor was appropriate considering what he did to America's health care system, the lies he told and the illegal subsidies to insurance companies. But, liberal racists complain because Obama was the white man's burden president.

Once written, twice... said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

One of the most effective caricatures of Obama was portraying him as a cowboy with an oversized hat and boots. Or wearing any oversized piece of clothing - unable fill his britches. Shades of Freud.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

The democrat party platform: If you don't worship us like gods, you are a horrible deplorable racist.

chickelit said...

The whole ear thing - no dowd started by Maureen - was too much for Obama. Too simian.

Quaestor said...

Amadeus, they were self-educated, read the Bible in a serious way and tried to live there lives with honor and decency towards others.

There it is folks, the paradigm of the inerrant argument from superior self-regard.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

Spiegel is a slick leftish sort of magazine. Predictable (as can be seen from its Trump cover series).

Stern's claim to fame is having published the fake "Hitler Diaries" in 1983 and claiming they were real. From this, Stern never recovered. So they can print all the Nazi-saluting Trumps they want; they're ridiculous.

The self-awareness of the German popular press remains limited, although not as severely as in the days of Der Angriff and the Volkische Beobachter.

Quaestor said...

"Hillbilly", "Cracker" and "Redneck" are all fair game because they are not the white man's burden.

"Once written" evidently has no idea what the white man's burden is or the origin of the phrase.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

I think the best caricature of Obama is Obama as a Hollywood golden statue with golf club.


*I denounce myself as racist because it should be illegal to criticize the golden calf.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

Oops, sorry, that should be Volkischer Beobachter

mockturtle said...

Derek Kite @6:50: Excellent!

AReasonableMan said...

Angel-Dyne said...
I think it's nice that Althouse provides a venue for them to unload their frustration.


I feel the same way. Althouse reliably provides a venue for a certain group of people to muse daily over the unfairness of life and 'the others'. Throwing up one softball after another it must be a genuine challenge most days to eke out sufficient micro-slights to satisfy all the punters.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Rule: Mocking black conservatives is A-OK! because they are not really black. All identity flows from the corrupt progressive state.

Francisco D said...

If Tim Scott (R- SC) became POTUS, he would very likely be characterized as an ape by many leftist media types.

Race is a smokescreen, not the issue. Republicans have to be destroyed by the propaganda arm of the Democrat party.

Quaestor said...

For "Once written's" too long delayed edification.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Gee, ARM, I had a really good 2017. I enjoyed Trump's first year - especially my quarterly statements.

The left spent that year screaming at the sky and throwing one hissy fit after another. They're the ones sobbing over the unfairness of it all because the old bitch wasn't coronated like they expected!

Rusty said...

Once written, twice... said...
"Both sides of my family are from the south and were poor and often lacked in formal schooling. They were definitely NOT Hillbillies.

Ann, Meade, and her tag alongs know the distinction here as well, though they pretend otherwise."

They say it skips a generation.

FIDO said...

I am not terribly concerned. Trump saw this. He is a thin skinned person at best...and he sets foreign policy.

Close a couple of bases. I am tired of paying for German healthcare by taking over their military responsibilities.



Quaestor said...

Of course, taking up my burden will neither elevate "Once written's" worm-eyed horizon nor earn any gratitude, because like Humpty-Dumpty's "Once written's" words mean exactly what they are intended to mean.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
"Angel-Dyne said...
I think it's nice that Althouse provides a venue for them to unload their frustration.

I feel the same way. Althouse reliably provides a venue for a certain group of people to muse daily over the unfairness of life and 'the others'. Throwing up one softball after another it must be a genuine challenge most days to eke out sufficient micro-slights to satisfy all the punters."

You get treated the way you ask to be treated. Quit acting the dipshit and contribute something substantive.

tcrosse said...

Dow 26000 today, which must be False Consciousness. The Market must not realize what a moron Trump is. If only they knew.

Elizabeth Crain said...

“Once written...” is back! They must have had an extra-long MLK weekend at middle school.

Gahrie said...

Ann and her tag alongs obsess about race and how they may be the real victims of discrimination...

The only person it is legal to discriminate against today is a White man.

mockturtle said...

Qauestor, this verse would exemplify Haiti pretty well:

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.


AllenS said...

Affirmative action guarantees that there will be racism against people, and those people who are benefiting from that racism are black people.

tcrosse said...

Qauestor, this verse would exemplify Haiti pretty well:
Nothing in there about paying for your daughter's wedding.

mockturtle said...

Of course, Allen! Because the racial divide benefits the Left the most.

FIDO said...

I would say that racial divide did NOT benefit the Left most last election.

If the white majority starts voting as mostly a racial block, it will be a very sad day indeed for minorities.

Once written, twice... said...

I am astounded that Ann is letting it hang out there that she agrees that this German magazine’s cover is somehow racist against Trump. That is just dumb. Sad.

Angel-Dyne said...

exiled: Gee, ARM, I had a really good 2017. I enjoyed Trump's first year - especially my quarterly statements.

Me, too, but I don't like this "look how great the stock market is doing, [insert current president] is awesome for the economy!" talk. Markets go up, and markets go down. There's plenty of risk baked into the system right now, and [insert current president] can't prevent an inevitable correction. I'm no financial doom-porn junkie, and I like running my fingers through my ducats as much as the next greed-bag, but...markets go up, and markets go down.

Besides, crowing about the market just draws the attention of the Evil Eye.

rehajm said...

I must confess my family has an ancestor in common with chimpanzees. My nanna told me his name was Panicious as I recall.

mockturtle said...

Kipling spent much of his life in shithole countries. While he had no illusions, he had considerable respect for native peoples. Like many British colonials, he had a love-hate relationship with the cultures.

rehajm said...

Dow 26000 today, which must be False Consciousness. The Market must not realize what a moron Trump is. If only they knew.

This is where ARM would like to point out all the economic devastation Trump has caused.

Darkisland said...

Thank you for the honor, Ann

John Henry

Snark said...

German Schadenfreude. How meta.

To me the image has more to do with the idea of devolution of American in general, aptly symbolized by the exquisitely awful Donald Trump.

Chris N said...

All these people looking for racism, sexism, and phobias everywhere have got me on the lookout for cultists: People who’ve attached a near religious significance and their primary sense of identity (personalizing the political)to these concepts.

People with actual immutable characteristics, like being black, have their own reasons for seeking something like fairness, but also using and getting used by such people, and for wanting such prejudice to not be a defining characteristic of their lives.

Identity politics amplifies such impulses into permanent grievance, however, creating a host of other problems. It also validates the cultists, who think they have special knowledge going way beyond their own experience, making these true believers increasingly desperate to prove and demonstrate their moral worth and adherence to the identity shrine, while seeking constant political power to advance their interests.

If identity is a core feature of a liberal platform (validated emotions attached to shared abstract concepts and ideology), count me out.

Quaestor said...

I am astounded that Ann is letting it hang out there that she agrees that this German magazine’s cover is somehow racist against Trump. That is just dumb. Sad.

Perhaps Althouse agrees with Jonathan Swift on the occasional futility of reason.

Lewis Wetzel said...

We know Trump is regressive, because progress entails striping privilege from heterosexual white men.That makes me wonder what kind of psychodrama heterosexual white progressive men are acting out.
I am old enough to remember when "progress" meant everyone advancing,together. It has been a zero-sum game at least 1985, when Atwood published The Handmaid's Tale.
I wonder if anyone has ever done a porno called The Handmaid's Tail?

RichardJohnson said...

Once written, twice... said...

And yes, given that Obama was our first African American president

Last time I checked, Comodoro Rivadavia in deep south Argentina, a.k.a. Patagonia, was never part of the United States. Last time I checked, Patagonia's president is Macri. And before Macri, Evita III.

Bay Area Guy said...

I'm a fleabit peanut monkey
And all my friends are junkies
That's not really true
I'm a cold Italian pizza
I could use a lemon squeezer
What you do?
But I've been bit and I've been tossed around
By every she-rat in this town
Have you babe?
But I am just a monkey man
I'm glad you are a monkey woman too


Monkey Man (1969), The Rolling Stones

glenn said...

Maybe by the time the Russians come calling we’ll have learned our lesson about “foreign entanglements”. Bet they feel differently then.

Darkisland said...

So once & family come from the south? Figures. Not hillbillies? Probably plantation owner with slaves.

Likely calls blacks auntie and uncle?

Likely said black servants "practically family"?

Might explain why she/he/it is so quick to call RACIST!!! at everyone else.

Racist pig.

John "really deep south" Henry

Angel-Dyne said...

ARM: I feel the same way. Althouse reliably provides a venue for a certain group of people to muse daily over the unfairness of life and 'the others'.[...]

See what I mean? IKYABWAI - what a weak-sauce response. You're a thoroughly demoralized man, ARM. It grieves me to see you like this.

RichardJohnson said...

Well, its Der Spiegel and it's the Germans. A good rule of thumb is that German criticism of the US is nonsense. Consider the following. Markus Günther: Hypocritical Americans Suppressing Memories of Slavery - Other Injustices.

roesch/voltaire said...

Reasonable man that was a fair description of the Althouse blog, but you must also realize this blog is some what of performance art for the Althouse persona. And of course we are all closely related to the Ape but groups have been casting that aspiration on "others"-- for example the way Asians/Apes were depicted in American propaganda during the war ( See Dower's War without Mercy for examples) in contrast to Europeans whose use of language and logic elevated them above their common ancestry. Because of these historical overtones, I suspect the Ape/Obama seems more loaded than Ape/Bush, which seemed just humorous, and Trump represents the devolution process of reason which of course offends those enthralled with the religion of Trump.

cubanbob said...

Those wacky krauts, don't they know that Trump is also a kraut?

exiledonmainstreet said...

It's true that markets go up and down, Angel Dyne, but we were assured on election night 2016 that they would go down and down and down and never come up, due to the stupidity of the deplorables.

I realize there will be a correction at some point (and of course, the left will scream that the correction proves they were right on election night after all), but I'm hoping (praying) that the deregulation and tax cuts will continue to bolster the economy. The lower unemployment rates are also a good sign, but I recognize that we are at the mercy of events and people. I don't mean to tempt fate. The left offers a lesson regarding the perils of hubris.

tcrosse said...

I realize there will be a correction at some point

We just don't know when. Ready to do some profit-taking ?

Quaestor said...

...but you must also realize this blog is some what [sic] of performance art for the Althouse persona.

Really, and just how did you come by that intelligence, by channeling Monsieur Arouet again, perhaps? But before you go into more detail about the Althouse persona, perhaps you should delineate the bounds of your own insincerity, just to establish bona fides, as it were

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"Throwing up one softball after another it must be a genuine challenge most days to eke out sufficient micro-slights to satisfy all the punters"

Never been to a Lefty/MSM website, have you?

Drago said...

R/V: "I suspect the Ape/Obama seems more loaded than Ape/Bush, which seemed just humorous, and Trump represents the devolution process of reason which of course offends those enthralled with the religion of Trump."

This just in, Lefty finds excuse for Lefty's doing what Lefty's say Righty's shouldn't be doing.

Unexpectedly.

Funny how the lefties do that...but only 100% of the time.

AReasonableMan said...

Angel-Dyne said...
You're a thoroughly demoralized man, ARM. It grieves me to see you like this.


First of all, thank you for your concern. Yet, I do not feel demoralized. Why just the other day I learnt an exciting new thing - the right wing no longer views northern european countries as socialist shitholes but instead they are paragons of the free market. Now, knowing this, I feel that the prospects of universal health in this country have never been brighter. Not universal socialized medicine but universal free market medicine, with the government controlling everything, finally seems within reach. It is a huge step forward. We are all coming together.

Quaestor said...

Funny how the lefties do that...but only 100% of the time.

And associating themselves with famous sages and raconteurs of bygone times as if a Google image search bestows the virtues of the imaged one on the appropriator. In the study of the psychology of myth, this is known as sympathetic magic, a familiar denizen of the leftish mind.

Martin said...

Didn't Churchill say that the German ("the Hun" at the time) is always either at your throat or your feet?

An important people and nation, but not a great one. We can and should deal with them because they are there and it is in our interest to do so, and it should be respectful--but we should not have any illusions about the nation with which we are dealing.

RichardJohnson said...

For further evidence that Amis should dismiss German criticism of the US, consider Herta Däubler-Gmelin. Back in 2002, when she was Germany's Minister of Justice, she created some controversy by comparing President Bush to Hitler and by calling the American justice system "lousy."
It turns out that Herta Däubler-Gmelin was born in 1943 in Slovakia, where her jurist father helped dispense Nazi justice, as the principal deputy to Hanns Ludin. Ludin was in charge of the Nazi satellite state of Slovakia. After the war, Ludin was executed for war crimes.
Hans Gmelin helped facilitate the transport of Jews to the death camps.
Documentary evidence discussed in an April 25, 2005 article in the Schwäbische Tagblatt indicates that Hans Gmelin was directly involved in the deportation of Slovakian Jews to the Nazi death camps. As author Hans-Joachim Lang notes:
Whether Eichmann was announcing his arrival [in Bratislava] or railway officials came by to discuss "questions relating to the shipment of Jews" or the Reich Central Security Office was welcoming the Slovak government's "making available of railway equipment," initials on the documents always confirmed who had been informed: for example, "Gm" for Gmelin.

An estimated 70,000 Slovakian Jews, representing over three-fourths of the pre-War Jewish population, died in the Nazi camps.


Hans Gmelin spent three years in prison after the war . He later spent 20 years as Mayor of Tübingen.
Herta Däubler-Gmelin 's Wikipedia page in English mentions that she was born in Slovakia in 1943, but doesn't inform us why her father was in Slovakia during WW2. It only mentions that her father was mayor for 20 years
I suspect that Herta Däubler-Gmelin's condemnation of George W. Bush, and her "lousy" characterization of American justice, were attempts to show that her Daddy and Germany weren't the only guilty parties. Herta Däubler-Gmelin is not responsible for her father's actions during World War II, but from her criticisms of the US, it appears that she feels some responsibility for her father's actions during WW2, or that she resents the punishment meted out to her father. As such, we should dismiss her criticisms of the US.
.


Do You Remember Herta Däubler-Gmelin? - World Politics Review

exiledonmainstreet said...

ARM, It wasn't "just the other day," it was yesterday. Can't you get anything right? I suppose your memory is rather vague since you were beaten like Charles Murray surrounded by Antifa thugs, but it's really quite sad that you are not man enough to admit you were wrong.

Keep on repeating your tired little lies, though. I'm sure they're comforting. Leftists are always soothed by lies.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Why just the other day I learnt an exciting new thing - the right wing no longer views northern european countries as socialist shitholes but instead they are paragons of the free market.
I am right wing & I never believed the Northern European countries were "socialist shitholes." How did you learn that the Right once considered Northern European countries to be shitholes, but now considers them free market purists? I can't believe this is something you could actually back up with evidence. Europe consists of social democracies for the most part. they were and are liberal democracies, or social democracies. Some of them still have aristocrats as head of state. In socialist countries, the state controls the means of production, e.g., economic meaningful property.
If I said that the only remaining socialist countries, North Korea and Cuba, are shitholes, would that be a racist statement?

mockturtle said...

Qauestor, this verse would exemplify Haiti pretty well:

I should have said that Haiti exemplifies the verse.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I don’t take German criticism of Amis seriously because their way of “atoning” for the Holocaust is to flood their own country with Jew hating Muslims. Pretty much of a dummkopf move, Hans and Franz.

gerry said...

tcrosse said "Dow 26000 today, which must be False Consciousness. The Market must not realize what a moron Trump is. If only they knew."

Your post caused me to think that President Trump is creating a dialectical dilemma for Progressives: their reality cannot be sustained in prosperous, optimistic circumstances. They are entering truly False Consciousness and may go mad.

Drago said...

Lewis: "How did you learn that the Right once considered Northern European countries to be shitholes, but now considers them free market purists?"

It's just a little pretend wordplay ARM was reduced to after being exposed as a bit of dunderhead by asserting that all of scandinavia had "fully enacted socialism".

After it was pointed out that the Scandinavian nations were just as you claim, Social Democracies (capitalist free markets with almost all productive means in private hands but with higher taxes and a larger social welfare structure), ARM decided it was time to completely change the subject.

ARM does this alot.

I gave a link where the Danish Prime Minister explained it quite clearly. The Danish Prime Minister was quite upset that Bernie Sanders had improperly characterized the structure of the Danish system.

He'll run with this new shiny thing he thinks he just found for awhile but its all just a show to keep from having to say he was caught talking out of his rear end.

It goes without saying Inga chimed in with support. They both think they've "got something!".

I'm surprised LLR Chuck hasn't voiced support for them. He's in lockstep with the lefties pretty much all the time now.

FullMoon said...

Those magazines do not represent the normal German people, as Newsweek, Morning Joe and Huffpo do not represent normal Americans.

roesch/voltaire said...

Drago I didn't say right or left should not use Ape imagery only to point out in what context they are embedded. It seems whether we are right or left we continue to rely to one degree or another on a "charismatic authority and what seems to be a theological legitimation of political power" to determine who is the ape and who is not. (see Yuri Slezkine's work in this area.)

Drago said...

R/V: "Drago I didn't say right or left should not use Ape imagery only to point out in what context they are embedded."

Ah yes, the old "context" ploy which turns the dems actions into "humor" and the republicans actions in racism.

I wonder if you actually believe your own obvious and false self-serving lie?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, you do.

As Drill Sgt Foley said to Aviation Officer Candidate Mayo: "Sell it to the Air Force Mayo, sell it to the Air Force."

exiledonmainstreet said...

Socialism worked as well as socialism can work in Sweden, because it is (or was) a small, homogenous, cohesive society back in the 60's and '70's. And it still didn't work all that well - hence the move back to free market economics, which I illustrated by providing plenty of quotes and stats from a Swedish parliamentarian for ARM to ignore.

We are not a small, homogenous, and cohesive society. Leftists like ARM keep talking about Scandinavia in the '60's while doing their damnest to make us into the Balkans of the early 90's.

RichardJohnson said...

exiledonmainstreet

I don’t take German criticism of Amis seriously because their way of “atoning” for the Holocaust is to flood their own country with Jew hating Muslims. Pretty much of a dummkopf move, Hans and Franz.

Indeed.
Hello Refugees: A Post by Melanie Phillips.
In Hello Refugees “Toby the German”, his previous persona, has become “Toby the Jordanian”. Posing as the son of Jordanian and European parentage, he uses his fluent Arabic to gain access to refugee camps in Germany where access is routinely denied to the media.

What he discovers shocks him deeply. He finds migrants effectively warehoused in wholly inadequate conditions, housed twelve to a “room” in what are no more than, and indeed described as, “containers”. Existing on disgusting food, jobless and with no apparent means of emerging from these holding pens, these migrants have in effect been abandoned by the German state.

Everywhere he goes, people tell him the same thing: that Chancellor Angela Merkel famously invited in more than one million migrants in order to erase the moral stain of Germany’s Nazi past. He concludes that this was not an act of conscience. How could it have been when these people have been left so abandoned? It was instead a move to show the world — and themselves — that this former Nazi state has become the world’s conscience. In other words, it was a cynical move that evacuates the word conscience of all meaning.

Worse than that, Tenenbom also discovers that this public advertisement of collective “conscience” has legitimised and provoked open antisemitism. Repeatedly and gratuitously, Germans tell him that they are now morally superior to the Jews and to the State of Israel which is described as uniquely racist and murderous.

He doesn’t get any of this from the Syrian refugees or other migrants. He gets it only from the Germans. He finds that “anti-racist”, “human rights” activists extolling Germany’s humanitarian gesture and calling for yet more refugees to be allowed in are in fact deep-dyed racists and antisemites.
Tenenbom knew already that Germany is still teeming with Jew-hatred; he has remorselessly chronicled this dismal finding in his previous work. But now, he tells me, it’s much more open and brazen. And that, he says, is because the act of taking in the migrants has allowed Germany to feel it has finally shaken off the stigma of its past. Now it is free to hate Jews again.

Gahrie said...


Your post caused me to think that President Trump is creating a dialectical dilemma for Progressives: their reality cannot be sustained in prosperous, optimistic circumstances


This.

It explains so much. For instance, there are more humans alive than ever before, with less worldwide poverty and hunger than ever before and people's standard of living is increasing worldwide. But the Left cannot accept this, and so starts prophesizing doom and gloom just around the corner.

Quaestor said...

They are entering truly False Consciousness and may go mad.

Inappropriate tense and mood.

exiledonmainstreet said...

RichardJohnson: The Germans will never forgive the Jews for the Holocaust.

William Chadwick said...

Because really evolved primates are total State cultists.

AReasonableMan said...

The Swedish government directly controls more than 50% of the economy and through what would be viewed as excessive regulation here tightly controls the rest. They have mandatory universal health care and strong unions. Normal people would view this as a socialist country. Even the right-wing 'thought' leaders did so for many years until it finally dawned on them that the majority of people in countries like Sweden were actually better off than the majority of people in the US, thus making these socialist countries a fabulous success story. Since, in their minds, socialism could never be a success a new narrative evolved, even stupider than the last one.

Much the same is true in China, where the Chinese Communist Party controls literally everything, yet their drubbing of the US economy can never be viewed as a success for communism and centrally directed economies.

Kevin said...

Portraying President Bush as an ape is at worse in poor taste. Doing the same of our first African American president has potentially a much different impact and meaning. Intellectual honest people acknowledge the difference here.

Intellectually honest people would note that if something clearly isn't racist in one context (Bush), it can't then be clearly and unequivocally racist in another (Obama).

Intellectually honest? You keep using that term. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Drago said...

ARM: "Normal people would view this as a socialist country."

Your argument is now with the Danish Prime Minister and Swedish economists.

I fear you will fare poorly in that titanic battle.

Lol

Drago said...

I am surprised to see ARM describe the leaders of the Scandinavian nations in question as abnormal.

I thought we were supposed to respect their opinions.

But if protecting ARM from having to admit he was hilariously incorrect about something means we have to call all the Scandinavian Social Democrats abnormal, thats a price ARM is willing to pay!

Lol





Angel-Dyne said...

r/V: Drago I didn't say right or left should not use Ape imagery only to point out in what context they are embedded.

Yes, dear, we know, but persons better educated and broader-minded than yourself get very bored in that stuffy little romper-room of carefully curated "historical reference" stations to which you would like to restrict all "context".

It seems whether we are right or left we continue to rely to one degree or another on a "charismatic authority and what seems to be a theological legitimation of political power" to determine who is the ape and who is not. (see Yuri Slezkine's work in this area.)

Do we now. Lol. Pompous old queen.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Normal people would view this as a socialist country.
Not true. It is called a social democracy. In the US, the federal government alone consumes 20% of the GDP, and the states a bit less than that.
Swedish per capita GDP is about 10% less than the per capita GDP of the US. In any event you are comparing apples and oranges. Sweden is not an analog for the US. Swedish people are not analogs for Americans.
Quit talking about what you think the Right says and tell me something that that is said on the right that actually backs up your foolish claim of your 10:47.
Or stop making foolish claims. Or do neither. Whatever, dude, you prove time and again that you are an intellectual bankrupt.

Drago said...

ARM: "Much the same is true in China, where the Chinese Communist Party controls literally everything, yet their drubbing of the US economy can never be viewed as a success for communism and centrally directed economies."

LOL

There is no way you are actually this...I won't say stupid...purposefully ignorant?

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-went-from-communist-to-capitalist-2015-10

snip: "Due to the reforms Deng put in place, China has gone from being a country that opposed capitalism to one that embraces property rights, profits and free market competition."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform

"Economic reforms introducing market principles began in 1978 and were carried out in two stages. The first stage, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, involved the decollectivization of agriculture, the opening up of the country to foreign investment, and permission for entrepreneurs to start businesses. However, most industry remained state-owned. The second stage of reform, in the late 1980s and 1990s, involved the privatization and contracting out of much state-owned industry and the lifting of price controls, protectionist policies, and regulations, although state monopolies in sectors such as banking and petroleum remained. The private sector grew remarkably, accounting for as much as 70 percent of China's gross domestic product by 2005.[5] From 1978 until 2013, unprecedented growth occurred, with the economy increasing by 9.5% a year. The conservative Hu-Wen Administration more heavily regulated and controlled the economy after 2005, reversing some reforms.[6]"

ARM is exposing even further layers of ignorance all in order to stave off having to admit he was obviously wrong about something relatively simple.

The last time I checked that was one of the reasons cited by the lefties to say DJT is insane.

I can't wait to see what you come up with next ARM.

Bottom Line: You can have as much socialism as you'd like, as long as you have enough capitalism to pay for it all.

Gahrie said...

in China, where the Chinese Communist Party controls literally everything, yet their drubbing of the US economy can never be viewed as a success for communism and centrally directed economies.

Probably because the Chinese economy didn't start to succeed until the Chinese started paying lip service to Communism and began instituting free market reforms. China's economy is successful despite communism, not because of it.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago, is China a communist country? A Yes or No will suffice.

And don't be a pussy.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, if that poster is speech, then those images constitute fighting words under Chaplinsky.

Drago said...

BTW, interesting aside since we were momentarily talking about the Chinese (weren't they sometimes shown as monkey's by westerners?): When meeting with representatives of Chinese businesses, the game I like to play is "Guess which one is the nephew of a Chinese General".

Gahrie said...

Drago, is China a communist country? A Yes or No will suffice.

Either a simple yes or a simple no would be wrong. China's political system is still communist, but its economic system no longer is.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Per capita GDP for the Chinese is about 1/7 of per capita GDP in the US. It used to be much, much worse. China's GDP growth rate is enviable, but they had a very low starting point. The law of marginal returns will reduce that pretty quickly. It is amazing that the mature US economy can still produce growth rates greater than 3%, medium to long term. Sweden has managed a > 3% growth rate in recent years, but this is due to a strong market for its exports (over 40% of Swedish GDP comes from its exports). Will that hold up long term? Only if developing nations continue to grow their economies at unprecedented rates.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago, is China a communist country? A Yes or No will suffice."

1) It is a single party nation (typical of the lefties): YES
2) The government strictly controls on speech, assembly, and belief (typical of the lefties): YES
3) China clearly and publicly turned away from pure Socialism under Deng starting in 1978 and the economic areas where the central government went to free markets provided just about all the growth over the next 4 decades: NO
4) State-owned enterprises may make up only 3 percent of all companies in China today and produce an estimated 25 to 30 percent of the total industrial output, thus the Free Market side of the house is economically dominant: NO
5) The Party maintains control by having key party members and their families "own" several industries: Depends on which market segment


Summary: A one-party communist party state with lefty-dream tight controls on it's peoples initiates capitalistic policies for 70% of it's economy and experiences rapid growth after decades of mass murdering typically leftist govt with no growth and mass starvation (think of it as early stage Sean Penn approved Venezuela)

Overall: Communist
The Successful parts of the economy in China: Predominately Capitalist

Again: You can have as much socialism and communism that you want, as long as you have enough capitalism to pay for it.

Or, if that doesn't work out, just do what the lefties always do, plough your people into mass graves.

Fabi said...

I earned more in fees and gains in 2017 than I ever have in my life. A solid accomplishment for a "retired" person. The private capital market is exploding. What a difference a year makes.

AReasonableMan said...

The economic system is controlled completely by the Chinese Communist Party, down to a five year plan with production and growth goals. If that is not a communist economy then you have stripped the word of all meaning, beyond being an epithet.

Communism and Socialism have evolved and are not the caricatures of 1950's political thought. In fact they never were, except in the minds of people like Drago. Both can fairly be viewed as successful and resilient systems that have largely matched the US system, however you want to characterize that system.

MountainMan said...

"...that President Obama elevated the office of the Presidency through how he handled himself."

Someone may have already addressed this in an earlier comment but I find the statement laughable.

tcrosse said...

"...that President Obama elevated the office of the Presidency through how he handled himself."

His form was impeccable, his substance abysmal.

Drago said...

ARM: "If that is not a communist economy then you have stripped the word of all meaning, beyond being an epithet."

I am sorry that the free market and private production reforms the Chinese implemented in the 1970's and were expanded over the next 4 decades which provided the entirety of the Chinese gains has upset you so.

I would recommend you send a strongly worded Note to Chinese President Xi to inform him of both your disapproval and your strong desire to rewrite the last 40 years of Chinese history.

Beyond that, you might consider therapy to get over this apparently now unquenchable need of yours to lecture left-wing, socialist, Social Democrat and communist leaders about how wrong they are in characterizing their nations economic systems and models.

You're welcome.

Drago said...

ARM: "Communism and Socialism have evolved and are not the caricatures of 1950's political thought. In fact they never were, except in the minds of people like Drago."

Again, your argument is with the elected leaders of Scandinavian nations as well as President Xi of China.

I know they would appreciate your offer to recalibrate their thinking about how to characterize their economic systems.

Again, it must be noted: ARM is now arguing with leaders of foreign nations for the simple reason that he could not bring himself to admit he was wrong about a relatively simple thing on a blog.

Literally.

Astonishing.

Lewis Wetzel said...

A communist society is a classless society, ARM. It is you who have stripped the word communist of its meaning. Or do you believe that there are no social classes in China?

Howard said...

The real big miscalculation on the commie threat was overestimating their strength. As an economic system, it was much worse in reality. If the West was better at Ju Jitzu, Vietnam could have been avoided and the collapse would have come sooner at a lower cost.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago, you can only live with caricatures of communism and socialism, not the real thing. You are like those men who prefer a blow-up doll to the complexity of a real woman. It's time to move on.

RichardJohnson said...

ARM:
Drago, is China a communist country? A Yes or No will suffice.And don't be a pussy.

Decades ago, several years into China's freeing up the agricultural realm, but before it became an export powerhouse, lefty columnist Alexander Cockburn opined on the issue. Alexander Cockburn called China fascist. (1985 or before, I would place it.)

At the time, I objected to China being called Fascist, but in retrospect, Alexander Cockburn may have had a case. Fascism has free enterprise that is highly regulated, with minimal civil liberties. While the average Chinese has more autonomy than during the Maoist era, there is much less freedom than in the West. For example, the government tightly regulates information- not always successfully.The implicit contract between the government and the people seems to be: do what you want in the economic realm, but keep your mouth shut regarding politics.

Fascist sounds about right to me.

Drago said...

Lewis Wetzel: "A communist society is a classless society, ARM. It is you who have stripped the word communist of its meaning."

When ARM uses a word it means just what he chooses it to mean — neither more nor less.

And if ARM needs it to mean something else tomorrow, who is to know? After all, history will begin anew in the morning.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago, you can only live with caricatures of communism and socialism, not the real thing. You are like those men who prefer a blow-up doll to the complexity of a real woman. It's time to move on"

Ah yes. That's about what I expected you would come up with at this point. It's consistent on your part.

In your defense, you have no where else to go.

Howard said...

The Chi Coms and the Ho Chi Menians are economic capitalists and social commies. Closer to fascists, really. Their cultures are also masters of the long-game. That's why they won't collapse like the Soviets.

Drago said...

I can understand why ARM is upset.

When China was pure communist/Maoist, tens of millions were murdered and ploughed into the ground.

A lefty peoples paradise.

Then China implements market reforms and creates the conditions for "great leaps" (I had to...) of economic progress, but only in those areas with free market reforms. Concurrently, the govt, still single party and totalitarian, has not committed murder on the tens of millions of people scale.

Well, anyone can see why those facts would drive a lefty in the US batty. ARM, like his pals, longs for the "good old days", when huge swaths of society could be gotten rid of by the wave of a hand.

Or, as the lefties would say: good times, good times.

Howard said...

Obama did what he was told, like all those before. He was good at pretending to be independent while doing Wall Street and the Death Industry's bidding.

Birkel said...

Now that official unemployment statistics for black Americans is at all-time lows, and Trump is free to speak truth about how Democrats have treated the cities and residents they mismanage, it is no wonder that every Leftist Collectivist runs around screaming racism.

One wonders if the same tactic exercised again will yield the same results.

Or is Trump a game changer?

Drago said...

Howard: "The Chi Coms and the Ho Chi Menians are economic capitalists and social commies. Closer to fascists, really. Their cultures are also masters of the long-game. That's why they won't collapse like the Soviets"

Sorry Howard, but you "just done brung too much of da truth!".

ARM is likely to have a seizure now.

Drago said...

I wonder if ARM will take to heart the "First Rule Of S***-Holes": When you are in one, stop digging.

We'll see.

AReasonableMan said...

So, just to recap, the People's Republic of China is not a communist country and Sweden, where the government controls more than 50% of the economy, is not a socialist country. Is this a correct representation of your beliefs?

Howard said...

RichardJohnson beat me to it. Also Richard reminded me of how much I miss old school real men lefties like Alexander Cockburn.

mockturtle said...

tcrosse notes regarding Obama: His form was impeccable, his substance abysmal.

Precisely. Having always valued function before form, I have no admiration for anyone who is glib and debonair but has never done anything productive in his life. There are plenty of Gentlemen's Quarterly types and smooth talkers in the media. They have opinions and love to lecture and moralize but have nothing of value to show for their years. Obama reminds me of one of them. To paraphrase Shaw, those who can, do. Those who can't, throw rocks at those who do.

Howard said...

ARM: I suppose you have trouble wrapping your mind around the wave-particle duality.

Auntie Trump said...

The Chi Coms and the Ho Chi Menians are economic capitalists and social commies.

Amazing how countries like Russia and China were able to turn from communist to fascist with hardly a change of letterhead. And yet the two are worlds apart.

Howard said...

Drago: Us ground-pounders know that you can't dig a shithole too deep

Auntie Trump said...

Communism and fascism, I mean. Diametric opposites!

Anyway, you guys enjoy your dialogue of the deaf.

Drago said...

I will continue to associate myself with the stated beliefs of the Scandinavian Prime Ministers and the official policies of the Peoples Republic of China.

Now, according to my handy-dandy Lefty Argument Handbook,...let's see, let's see.....hmmmm, yes, sexual related insult already made,...yes, yes, insult to intelligence lobbed....yes, yes...Ah yes! I am due to be called a racist next.

Get on it ARM! The Official Lefty Argument Handbook tells my you should have already offered up at least 3 racial accusations by now!

I think the whole Nordic countries thing threw you off.

Drago said...

Howard: "Drago: Us ground-pounders know that you can't dig a shithole too deep"

You guys are so hard to see from the air!!

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Communism and Socialism have evolved and are not the caricatures of 1950's political thought In fact they never were, except in the minds of people like Drago."

So the 100 million plus murdered by Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro are just a figment of right wing imaginations? They weren't real people with real lives and dreams who were starved, shot, tortured and worked to death in gulags by Communist leaders?

Holocaust deniers are contemptible. So are those who spit on the graves of those murdered by Communism.

Shame on you.

Drago said...

exiled: "They weren't real people with real lives and dreams who were starved, shot, tortured and worked to death in gulags by Communist leaders?"

Hey man, some of those people wore eyeglasses man! Eyeglasses!

In the lefties brave new world they had to go!

Right ARM? (I'm assuming you are prepared to admit those people were actually killed by your "successful communists")

Gahrie said...

So, just to recap, the People's Republic of China is not a communist country

No...China is a communist country with a mixed economy and Sweden is a Socialist country with a mixed economy. The economies of both nations have improved the more they moved towards free market capitalism, and away from governmental central planning.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago, I particularly dislike the Communist government in China so your deranged emoting gains you nothing here. I can however recognize a communist country when I see one.

Chuck said...

Let's face it, Althouse. Trump doesn't want to "take any heat."

He said that he would accept whatever compromise the bipartisan group sent him on immigration, and that it would be a "bill of love." And of course he claimed that he would "take the heat," most particularly as he was prompted by Senator Graham, the "heat" from the far-right immigration hawks who had been after Graham for years on the issue.

But that isn't at all what Trump did. Trump didn't stand up to the immigration hawks; he brought them in. And then when Trump sided with the hawks and questioned our allowing in people from "shithole countries," Trump refused to take the heat for that as well. he denied that he said such a thing, and Trump got Senators Cotton and Perdue to lie for him.

Trump is genetically hard-wired to NOT take the heat, even when he should.

Drago said...

The beclowning continues apace with our "accidental leftist" and LLR Chuck!



Drago said...

ARM: "I can however recognize a communist country when I see one."

You are expected to understand where that communist government implemented market-based reforms which generated their rapid growth.

The fact that you want to pretend that market-based reforms falls under communist ideology only hurts your cause.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago, I particularly dislike the Communist government in China so your deranged emoting gains you nothing here."

Fair enough.

I take it back and it won't happen again.

Big Mike said...

Now that it’s been pointed out, it certainly is true that the profile on the “archaic Homo sapiens” resembles Bush’s profile, and the profile on the Australopithecine is spot on for Obama. Or perhaps they all look alike to Germans.

Gahrie said...

But that isn't at all what Trump did. Trump didn't stand up to the immigration hawks; he brought them in. And then when Trump sided with the hawks

See...this is where you screw up. A true Republican would want Trump to side with the hawks.

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