November 21, 2017

"Some have argued that there would be no #MeToo moment if Donald Trump had not been elected, even after being accused of various forms of misconduct, from groping to rape."

"But in recent weeks several of Trump’s accusers have said that while they’re happy sexual harassment is being discussed more openly, they’re still dismayed that their own stories seem to have had little impact. Some have continued speaking out, hoping that away from the chaos of the election, people might be more ready to listen to their accounts. A defamation suit filed by Summer Zervos, one of the accusers, has also opened up the possibility that they’ll get their day in court. But for now, Trump seems entirely unfazed by the allegations hanging over him. Press Secretary Sarah Sanders confirmed last month that it is the White House’s official position that every single one of the women is lying, and Trump has not shied away from condemning alleged sexual harassers (if they’re Democrats)."

From "What Happened to the 16 Women Who Accused Trump of Sexual Misconduct," by Margaret Hartmann in New York Magazine. Hartman lists the 16 women, their allegations, and what's happened since the allegations were made, but does not examine why — as so many others take massive hits and lose their jobs — Trump remains relatively unscathed. So let's talk about that. Let me get the conversation started with a few ideas. I'm not endorsing any of these theories, just putting them on a list of things you might want to consider:

1. The election worked as absolution. We factored in the allegations — giving them whatever weight we thought right — and they haven't really changed since the election, so the election is like a final judgment in a court case. As a political matter, we move on and get on with our life.

2. Since Trump is the President, we need him to carry out his duties. We especially want to put these accusations in the past, because we see the dangers of complicating his life. He's been chosen to shoulder the difficult tasks of the presidency, so leave him alone. Let him move forward.

3. Those who want to complicate his life probably didn't vote for him and would be happy to take him down now. Every time there's another Harvey Weinstein or Charlie Rose, they want to talk about Trump the sexual harasser again, but to those who've supported Trump or who want to respect the results of the election and not add to the difficulty of Trump's presidential tasks, they seem to be relitigating the election.

4. Many of the new targets of allegations are people who had seemed to be male allies of the women's movement, and it's the lying and the hypocrisy that bothers us the most. The accusations against Trump seem only to reinforce what we already saw on the surface of Trump: brash exuberance, wanting plenty of good things for himself, excitement over beautiful women, impoliteness. The new allegations don't take us back to the Trump allegations because Trump wasn't accepted as an ally of feminism. He seems to represent the old school, male chauvinism. That's a different category and not what we're paying attention to right now.

380 comments:

1 – 200 of 380   Newer›   Newest»
Earnest Prole said...

You’re no Gloria Steinem but it’s a good start.

buwaya said...

Democratic women, the most extreme and loyal of Democrats, may be more bothered by all this than Trumps (or Moores) voters.

Sebastian said...

5. After decades of prog lying and obfuscating and harassing and lecturing and condescending, after Packwood was the worst scum while Ted K was the lion of the Senate, after progs told us they'd do anything for Bill and character didn't matter, we don't effing care about accusations against Trump, until progs have done their own housecleaning for, oh, the next decade or so. Just to show us they mean it.

buwaya said...

This sort of thing has a very skewed impact in other words. Its like a herbicide applied to crops that are engineered to resist it, but it is deadly to weeds.

Chuck said...

He's been chosen to shoulder the difficult tasks of the presidency, so leave him alone. Let him move forward...

Geezus, I wish that Trump thought like that. And act like that.

All that Trump ever seems to think about is punching down, at LeVar Bell, at Rep. Frederica Wilson, at Khizer Khan, at his successors on "The Apprentice," at Puerto Ricans, at federal district judges and Trump University students and of course at his own sexual misconduct accusers.

AlbertAnonymous said...

All 4, but especially number 4.

I haven’t yet figured out HOW this turnaround occurred though. I don’t for one second believe that leftists and the media (but I repeat myself) suddenly decided to take a principled stance, politics be damned. So why? Why are they turning?

A. Is it because Harvey Weinstein’s acts we’re so offensive (including actual rape as traditionally defined) ?

B. Is it because Weinstein is fat and ugly and obnoxious regardless of political affiliations?

C. Is it because Weinstein is Jewish?

D. Did it not start until the Kevin Spacey allegations and it’s because he’s gay? Or a pedo?

Mike Sylwester said...

If Trump says an accuser is lying, then the accuser can sue him for defamation?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I'll second what Sebastian said. Liberals have shown, based on their past actions, that they only say what they say because it advances their political power. I'm willing to take these sorts of things seriously, but only after the liberals show they are serious. They can only do that by holding to principle when, on net, it costs them politically. Which means it can only happen after Trump is out of office. So seven years from now, at the earliest.

rehajm said...

...they’re still dismayed that their own stories seem to have had little impact.

Who do they think they are? The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals?

Mike Sylwester said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
M Jordan said...

Sebastian’s nailed it.

Mike Sylwester said...

Does our judicial system really want to conduct a defamation trial every time someone says that an accuser is lying?

Drago said...

LLR and "Accidental Leftist" Chuck: "Geezus, I wish that Trump thought like that. And act like that"

Politicians who think the way LLR Chuck thinks they should think: "Presidents" Kasich, Rubio, McCain, Romney, Dole, HW Bush, etc.

That list is endless.

Hmmmm, its almost as if that would be best for the democrat party too!

What an unfortunate, unfortunate, coincidence.

Hari said...

I would add an additional choice: Even is true, none of the charges rise to the level of felonies. None of the victims claim to have been raped or sodomized. This is not to say that any of this if true is okay, but the public is not going to support an impeachment over any of these claims (many of which are on par with what George HW Bush confessed to.)

The situation with Al Franken is just the Left trying to trade one of their pawns for a king. The Democrats are happy to expel Franken and a dozen other senators and congressmen, if it means they can get Trump.

The men who have lost their jobs over these sorts of complaints have all been in the private sector (where the decision is largely a function of protecting the corporate bottom line). The idea of congress punishing one or more of their own (after years of settling using taxpayer money) is strictly to maintain credibility and to position for attacks against Trump.

To date, there voters have not voted anyone out of office over non felony claims. Roy Moore may be a test case. But I agree that those who voted for Trump have learned nothing new since the election.

Drago said...

Sebastian: "until progs have done their own housecleaning for, oh, the next decade or so."

progs and LLR's.

rehajm said...

They can only do that by holding to principle when, on net, it costs them politically.

Saturday Night Live’ women defend Franken after groping allegations.

MikeR said...

Well, hmm. You covered for Bill Clinton when you needed to, we'll cover for Trump now. We'll count that as even. After that, let's all get together and purge all these evil harassers. Fair?

PackerBronco said...

Sebastian said...

Pretty much the correct answer is his (5). All we're doing is applying the progs rules to Trump. You defined the rules with respect to Clinton and Swimmer Ted among others, tough **** if you don't like it now.

Drago said...

Hari: "The Democrats are happy to expel Franken and a dozen other senators and congressmen, if it means they can get Trump."

The democrats know full well they do not have to expel Franken to continue to gain the support of the LLR's and establishment types who would still happily get rid of Trump.

Why give up a pawn when the "back seat" players (LLR's) on the other side are happy to hand you their own queen anyway?

rhhardin said...

The whole thing is idiotic, entertainment for women, like Princess Di, Jessica in the Well and JFK Jr.

Being idiotic woman-stuff, it doesn't affect Trump.

The mob action has no actual support.

Amexpat said...

Definitely # 4. As a commenter here pointed out yesterday, Trump isn't burdened by white, male liberal guilt. Also, for better to worse, he never backs down or admits a mistake. So he doesn't haven't to make a hypocritical half apology.

Also, since the GOP primary, he's stirred the pot so many times with comments that were considered out of bounds that any serious allegations against him get lost in all the turmoil he creates.

rhhardin said...

Perps are fired by organizations that fear women. Say women are their audience.

Unknown said...

“But for now, Trump seems entirely unfazed by the allegations hanging over him. Press Secretary Sarah Sanders confirmed last month that it is the White House’s official position that every single one of the women is lying, and Trump has not shied away from condemning alleged sexual harassers (if they’re Democrats)."

That is how a sociopath thinks. No worries, they think they are smarter, faster, better than the mere mortals who accuse them. In Trump’s case his power and money have shut up his accusers.

Trump winning the election has not given him absolution by those who didn’t vote for him, not by a long shot. And those who voted for him despite the many allegations hanging over his head are the same sort who would vote for Roy Moore. Nothing, absolutely nothing is more important to them than making sure a Democrat doesn’t get into office. Not even Evangelicals or those moral Family Values types care a fig about the character of these men.

Bay Area Guy said...

It is critical to sort thru what is (a) only boorish male behavior and (b) what is criminal predatory acts.

Often we resort to tribalism (myself included), hammering our opponents (Clinton, Weiner, Weinstein, Franken) while ignoring our allies (O'Reilly, Trump, Moore).

The problem has many dimensions, but the one dynamic I return too, is all the false accusations of hate crimes, too many to list here. The Duke Lacrosse team stands out. But, almost any time there is a "hate crime" (ie., a swastika, or noose or graffiti), it's 50-50 odds that some leftist activist in college is trying to make a point.

So, I do view the Left has hypocritical here. They have used accusations of sexual harassment to nail innocent folks (Clarence Thomas) but covered up similar, even more egregious accusations, such as those against Bill Clinton.

It's messy and we try our best to plow through, with our principles intact.

Trump, admittedly, slept with hundreds, if not thousands of women. It's good to be the King. And now he's Prez. With all that sexual conquest, there are bound to be boundaries crossed, hurt feelings and other tacky stuff. I have no doubt that a few women will, in fact, credibility accuse Trump, and may or may not have some smoking gun evidence, like Monica Lewinsky's stained blue dress.

We will just have to see.

Drago said...

rehajm linked to it.

The lefties, including Inga and her LLR allies, cannot even maintain the semblance of their "we are "outragedly outraged!!" schtick at "all" the harassers, accused harassers, accused gropers, etc for more than a couple weeks before collapsing back into full blown defense of the lefties.

Everyone sees that.

And no one is buying the unearned moral superiority that every lefty and LLR ally brings to every discussion.

PackerBronco said...

Blogger Unknown said...
And those who voted for him despite the many allegations hanging over his head are the same sort who would vote for Roy Moore. Nothing, absolutely nothing is more important to them than making sure a Democrat doesn’t get into office.


Or look at the Dems and their support for Clinton and Swimmer Ted. Heck, everyone knew that Ted left a woman to DIE rather than report an accident and they still voted for him. So kindly shove it.

Drago said...

Unknown: "
That is how a sociopath thinks. No worries, they think they are smarter, faster, better than the mere mortals who accuse them. In Trump’s case his power and money have shut up his accusers."

LOL

Notice how all the lefty memes of the past come crumbling down!

Remember, prior to the election, Trump had not real riches or power. He was a failed businessman! All the smartest lefties and LLR allies told us that!

But now that he is in office, why, in retrospect, he was always so rich and powerful he fits the Weinstein mold!!

Not to worry, by tomorrow the lefties and their LLR allies will figure out a new way to actually "re-proclaim" Trump as a business failure that never had any real money or success or power.

The important thing is to remember that history begins anew each day and anything the lefties/LLR allies said yesterday must be discarded for the political purposes of today!

Bob Boyd said...

Let's revisit these accusations in 20 years or so.
Meantime we should just MoveOn.

Bay Area Guy said...

Yeah, I read all the 16 accounts, it's mostly boorish behavior by Trump, no photographs like with Al Franken.

The only one that had any guts was the Ivana story -- but Ivana repudiated the "rape" claim, so that's going nowhere. She made her peace with Donald, and probably the terms involved a lotta alimony.

Not defending his boorish behavior, mind you. Like most folks, I have a mother, sisters, a wife and daughters, and certainly would not tolerate such actions, done to them (if I could so something about it).

But, I'm willing to bet at bars, at clubs, at Frat Houses, the females of my life have experienced some of this crappy stuff.

Nonapod said...

I think certain types of abuse, grabbing, groping, forced kissing on the mouth that Franken and Trump and Rose and several others have been accused of definitely falls into the category of "old school, male chauvinism". Basically guys like that used to be referred to as were called "cads" or "rakes".

I don't know if it's strictly a generational thing, have there been any Gen X or Millennial men accused of this sort of thing?

Kevin said...

5. The second woman listed of the 16 is Ivana Trump, who has on several occasions - and even in this very article - debunked the accusations attributed to her. If the people pushing the story feel compelled to include her in the list of his dastardly deeds, how seriously should we take the reporting done on the rest of the stories?

wwww said...


as so many others take massive hits and lose their jobs — Trump remains relatively unscathed. So let's talk about that.


It's a reactive moment. As new information comes out about creepers, the press, cable, twitter, facebook -- all reacts to the information. There has been no new information about Trump in the past couple of weeks, since Ronan Farrow's story started it all.

Ronan Farrow. Impressed with him as a reporter, and as a brother.

Unknown said...

“1.The election worked as absolution. We factored in the allegations — giving them whatever weight we thought right — and they haven't really changed since the election, so the election is like a final judgment in a court case. As a political matter, we move on and get on with our life.”

So when Roy Moore wins the election in Alabama, it will absolve him too. Nice precedent Trump set, huh? What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?

Comanche Voter said...

I dunno; last year the lefties were outraged because Trump said women would "just let him grab their (crotch)". That is not quite the same thing as saying, "I grabbed a lot of crotches in my time".

The Los Angeles Times reporters--working for a newspaper that hasn't been a serious paper in a very long time--tend to equate Trump's boast with reports of Democrats actually grabbing crotches. While I doubt that Trump is all talk and no action (the girls I knew back in my youth tended to call such guys NATO when they were disappointed that they hadn't been come on to) you should not confuse talk (I kin do it) with action (He did it).

Balfegor said...

I think every new allegation of media/entertainment sexual misconduct opens up more space for Trump (in a couple of months, assuming the avalanche does not abate) to admit that he's sometimes behaved caddishly, and have it dissipate into the ether. He was an entertainment personality before he became President, and what we're seeing is that the entertainment business is rife with sexual assault. However bad he may be, Trump is far from the worst.

Achilles said...

5. Most/All of the accusations have deep flaws and the accusers accounts are not credible. Just as the case of Roy Moore demonstrates. Nelson and her lawyer will be facing fraud charges soon.

n.n said...

Franken is accused of, at minimum, molesting an unconscious woman, and more forcible intimate contact, where there is photographic evidence to support the first accusation, and an apology for the second.

Anga2010 said...

"I saw goody proctor with the devil!"
#Me Too

Michael K said...

" they seem to be relitigating the election."

This and a lot of lying to the point that I just scroll by Inga and LLR.

Ted Kennedy immunized all Republicans against this crap.

Mary Jo Kopechne and the "waitress sandwich" pretty much cancelled out anything short of rape.

Achilles said...

6. The media lost it's monopoly on the dissemination of information when Drudge posted the Monica Lewinsky story. If we had the same media we did just a few decades ago Trump would have been impeached by now for "Russian Collusion" and nobody would know that it was Obama and Clinton that colluded with Russia to build a phony dossier they used to justify spying on a political opponent.

Michael K said...

So when Roy Moore wins the election in Alabama, it will absolve him too. Nice precedent Trump set, huh? What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?


TED KENNEDY sweetie,

Greg Hlatky said...


Can't remember where I read the description of Ted Kennedy as the Lion of the Senate: he mated without limit and killed without remorse.

MayBee said...

What does it say about the media that there would have been no #MeToo moment if Hillary had been elected and Bill were once again roaming the White House and Dicking Bimbos At Home?

n.n said...

Despite the Pro-Choice position to deny due process, to presume guilt, Moore is accused without evidence. As of now, there is nothing to absolve.

Fabi said...

"What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?"

It says: enjoy the rules you imposed, lefties!

Achilles said...

Unknown said...

So when Roy Moore wins the election in Alabama, it will absolve him too. Nice precedent Trump set, huh? What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?

Roy Moore is going to win the election because his accusers have been outed as liars. We are hearing from local sources the truth of what happened during those times and that the accusers are fakes.

Only thugs like you believe the obviously discredited stories of Nelson and Coifman.

Drago said...

n.n: "Franken is accused of, at minimum, molesting an unconscious woman, and more forcible intimate contact, where there is photographic evidence to support the first accusation, and an apology for the second"

How can that be?

All those enlightened, intelligent, successful women of SNL signed a letter (lets call it the "Anti-Duke Lacrosse Letter") proclaiming Franken a swell guy.

And remember, according to the lefties and their LLR allies, these are just the sort of people we should be taking direction from.

Unknown said...

“The election worked as absolution. We factored in the allegations — giving them whatever weight we thought right — and they haven't really changed since the election, so the election is like a final judgment in a court case. As a political matter, we move on and get on with our life.”

So when Democrats voted for Ted Kennedy despite his crime, he was given absolution and Americans should’ve moved on and gotten on with their lives and not kept bringing up MaryJo.

Drago said...

Man, Inga really really doesn't like the rules her side established, does she?

Not to worry Inga. There are quite a few Chucks out there on your side as well!

BillyTalley said...

If we can't choose all the above, then it'll be number 4, the hypocrisy. All of the recent allegations bite especially hard since they all take us back to Clinton and further to Ted Kennedy... unfinished business. Rose is as old as these two. Roger Simon wrote a good post today about this particular aspect.

donald said...

Lady’s got a lawsuit. She wants her day in court and she can get it. God bless America.

Drago said...

Inga the Hopeless: "So when Democrats voted for Ted Kennedy despite his crime, he was given absolution and Americans should’ve moved on and gotten on with their lives and not kept bringing up MaryJo."

LOL

The left did give him absolution. For decades.
The left did move on and they never again brought up Mary Jo.

Anytime a conservative would mention the inconvenient "manslaughter" fact, all of your pals, ALL OF THEM, leaped to Kennedy's defense.

And they did for decades.

But only for decades.

So, your complaints now seem, how shall I say it? Oh yes: massively hypocritical.

n.n said...

TED KENNEDY sweetie

Not even that. Ted Kennedy fled the scene of the accident he caused through negligence and left his girlfriend to die. This isn't an allegation, subject to findings of due process.

If anything, absolving Franken of molesting an unconscious woman, and other acts of misogynistic spite, are a greater testimony to the merits and character of female chauvinism. Is it just liberal clowns, or any clown, that now has moral authority to molest unconscious women?

Unknown said...

So why do Republicans follow in the footsteps of Democrats who did wrong by voting for criminals? Is it a case of when my side does it, it’s OK? So how does that make you Trumpists and rightists any better than a Democrat or liberal? So I guess the cycle will just keep repeating itself and each side will just keep calling the other side hypocrites. Such insanity.

Drago said...

Not only did Ted Kennedy flee the scene of a crime, the ENTIRE democrat apparatus flexed to cover up for him. No autopsy when one was mandated. Spiriting the body out of town on an aircraft "helpfully" provided by the Kennedy's. Enlisting a Cardinal of the church to lie to the Kopechne family that it goes against church teachings to have a body exhumed for examination.

And this guy was the HERO of the left for another 30 years.

And Inga wonders how it is we choose not to be lectured to by her and her LLR allies.

Henry said...

5. Once elected, It is very hard to hold a politician accountable. Presidents least of all.

I read someone complaining about the Democrats "forcing" Franken out.

No one can force Franken to resign. Only Franken can do that.

Politicians are criminals with tenure. Barring the exhausting drama of impeachment or expulsion, they get to run out their string.

rhhardin said...

Ted Kennedy was the loin of the senate.

Drago said...

Unknown: "So why do Republicans follow in the footsteps of Democrats who did wrong by voting for criminals?"

We didn't.

And your side still hasn't owned up to their actually doing that.

Projection. And everyone now sees it. There is no lefty media monopoly any longer, despite how much you and Chuck wishes there were.

Unknown said...

“And Inga wonders how it is we choose not to be lectured to by her and her LLR allies.”

That’s not your “choice”. I will continue to point out your poor character when the opportunity arises, which it does daily. If you choose to be just like the bad Democrats, you haven’t a leg to stand on.

Unknown said...

“We didn't.”

Yes, you most certainly did. Trump is President.

Drago said...

Perhaps Inga should spend more time demanding answers to how it could be that the largest democrat law firm in the nation spent millions contracting with Hollywood lefties to hire former intelligence agents to attack and intimidate victims of lefty sexual abuse.

How does THAT happen Inga?

Once again, literal ARMIES of lefties and foot soldiers assaulting women and then intimidating them in astonishing ways.

Ingas response........crickets.......

Howard said...

"Do you really love me, Teddy? We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, Mary Jo."

Achilles said...

Unknown said...
So why do Republicans follow in the footsteps of Democrats who did wrong by voting for criminals? Is it a case of when my side does it, it’s OK? So how does that make you Trumpists and rightists any better than a Democrat or liberal? So I guess the cycle will just keep repeating itself and each side will just keep calling the other side hypocrites. Such insanity.

The Moore accusers are proven liars. The democrat/cuck parties are amoral shitheads who absolve proven predators like Kennedy and Clinton and use false charges against innocent people to gain power.

Their supporters are amoral too. You don't have an honest bone in your body.

Bay Area Guy said...

Yeah, the Ted Kennedy thing and the Clarence Thomas thing and the Bill Clinton thing still irk me. Ted Kennedy killed a woman (Kopechne), Clinton raped woman (Broaderick) and Clarence Thomas was the victim of a high-tech "lynching" because the left didn't like his judicial philosophy.

So, I guess my view is that the Left doesn't come to this discussion with clean hands or good faith.

Bay Area Guy said...

Also, the "Get Trump" squad is persistent, but pathetically annoying. So, I have trouble listening to them as well.

Drago said...

Inga: "Yes, you most certainly did. Trump is President."

No, we didn't. Trump is President. Not Hillary.

See how this works?

Achilles said...

Unknown said...
“We didn't.”

Yes, you most certainly did. Trump is President.

And there are ZERO credible accounts of sexual assault/harassment against him.

Unknown said...

“The Moore accusers are proven liars.”

Where’s the proof? On one of your conspiracy theory sites?

mandrewa said...

Trump should not be removed from office over this. My primary reason for thinking that is practical.

The presidency is way too important. If you allow president's to be removed from office over this kind of thing, then every presidency and every election will be polluted with this kind of allegation.

And note that there is no evidence here. With Trump and actually many other things we are hearing about now it's usually a matter of believing one person's account over another. I don't believe the lie that women don't lie. Basically anyone that believes that lie is demonstrating that they are not rational. That doesn't mean that some of these accounts aren't true. They may very well be, but it's hard to distinguish truth from clever fabrication and with politics the incentive to construct clever lies is extremely high.

Second, it helps that I know, with pretty good odds, that none of these accusations are really serious. By serious, I mean traumatic. And how do I know that? Because none of these women brought it up before he was running for the presidency or before he was elected. What I'm saying is not that there might not have been unethical or even possibly illegal acts, but that legal or not these women weren't upset about these acts, if they occurred, before he was running for president.

Now I believe that there are traumatic rapes that are never reported to the police. That's because with trauma, with real trauma, people will often block it out and the last thing they want to do is focus on it. So just because something isn't reported doesn't mean something didn't happen. But I don't believe anything like that is what is going on here.

Unknown said...

“And there are ZERO credible accounts of sexual assault/harassment against him.”

And how do you know this? From your conspiracy theory sites?

Drago said...

Unknown: "Where’s the proof? On one of your conspiracy theory sites?"

You mean MSNBC?

wwww said...

I don't know if it's strictly a generational thing, have there been any Gen X or Millennial men accused of this sort of thing?


Most of the creepers have been Boomers, but I think Halpernin is older Gen X. One or two of the movie people are Gen X or Millennial. Most of them Boomers.


Drago said...

Inga wants everyone to forget about Tom Delay and Ted Stevens and the others the lefties have railroaded.

Until Bill Clinton is in jail, nothing the left says should be given the time of day.

Unknown said...

“You mean MSNBC?”

I’m quite sure Achilles doesn’t watch MSNBC.

Nyamujal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Inga: "I’m quite sure Achilles doesn’t watch MSNBC."

Of course not. He doesn't watch conspiracy crazy people.

BTW, isn't it interesting that its now leaking out, as we knew it would, that not a single thing in the fake dossier has ever been verified. Worse, it appears the FBI guys assert they were never in a position to verify anything in it.

And Inga wonders why we are laughing at her accusations.

I can't imagine why that might be.

Unknown said...

“Of course not. He doesn't watch conspiracy crazy people.”

Oh I wouldn’t be so sure about that.

Kevin said...

Yes, you most certainly did. Trump is President.

Which prevented now-admitted sexual predator Bill Clinton, and his blame-shifting wife, from accessing the White House Intern pool yet again.

You tell me why Trump being President is the greater horror.

Drago said...

Inga: "Oh I wouldn’t be so sure about that."

Oh, so you think he actually DOES watch MSNBC.

Interesting.

John Tuffnell said...

I'll take Althouse Door No. 4, with a nod toward Door No. 1.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Bottom line is that, on the large scale, I don't trust the left or the media on anything to do with women's rights/issues. They have proven time and time again that they are willing to go to any length in these areas, from significant exaggerations to outright lies, to achieve their political goals. Maybe the same would be true of the right, but we don't know, because the media doesn't cover for them like they do with the left.

Achilles said...

Bay Area Guy said...
Yeah, the Ted Kennedy thing and the Clarence Thomas thing and the Bill Clinton thing still irk me. Ted Kennedy killed a woman (Kopechne), Clinton raped woman (Broaderick) and Clarence Thomas was the victim of a high-tech "lynching" because the left didn't like his judicial philosophy.

So, I guess my view is that the Left doesn't come to this discussion with clean hands or good faith.


This is the essence of the current situation. The howls of rage and indignation from the likes of Inga are because they are losing power and influence over others.

Kevin said...

6. The Dems are still struggling to come up with any evidence "the election was stolen by the Russians" after a year. Let that one play out in full before we start discussing their next theory of impeachment.

wwww said...

"Yeah, the Ted Kennedy thing and the Clarence Thomas thing and the Bill Clinton thing still irk me. Ted Kennedy killed a woman (Kopechne), Clinton raped woman (Broaderick) and Clarence Thomas was the victim of a high-tech "lynching" because the left didn't like his judicial philosophy. So, I guess my view is that the Left doesn't come to this discussion with clean hands or good faith."


Boomers don't seem to see the generational differences going on here. You're seeing the reaction purely from a Left/Right divide and not a Boomer/ younger generations divide.

Chappaquidick was 48 years ago. If you pull out the Chappaquidick card on a 25 year old, they aren't likely to know what you're talking about.

A 25 or 30 or 35 year old is not going to care about the Kennedys in the same way you did. 20 and 30 year old women are going to be shocked by this behaviour. They don't expect to be sexually harassed at work. From recent polling, it looks like the youngest gens are more sexually conservative then Boomers.

Drago said...

"Chappaquidick was 48 years ago. If you pull out the Chappaquidick card on a 25 year old, they aren't likely to know what you're talking about"

Indeed.

Ingas pals have buried that story too deep.

Achilles said...

Unknown said...
“You mean MSNBC?”

I’m quite sure Achilles doesn’t watch MSNBC.

I read the transcripts. Video is too slow. If your goal is to get information from many sources actually watching video is impossible. People who "watch" anything are going to do nothing else or be mis/uninformed.

Sigivald said...

Also, one big reason ... "nobody can just fire the President".

Employers can kick actors and spokesmen and other people to the curb more or less at will.

Presidents can't be fired; they can only be impeached, and that's a political process that requires substantial agreement.

(And then we have President Pence, which the Progressives have spent the last year, if Facebook is any guide, convincing themselves is Worse Than Trump And Probably Literally The Antichrist.)

wwww said...



Ronan Farrow is not a Boomer.

btw- good job Ronan on getting righteous justice for your sister. He broke this story open.

Kevin said...

"Some have argued that there would be no #MeToo moment if Hillary Clinton had been elected, even after she covered for Bill who was for decades being accused of various forms of misconduct, from groping to rape."

FIFY

Drago said...

exhelodrvr1: "Maybe the same would be true of the right, but we don't know, because the media doesn't cover for them like they do with the left."

The brilliance of our Founders was in their insight that all human beings are subject to the same temptations and failures, thus our system should be designed in a way that those human failings would be least dangerous to other citizens.

And thats why the left calls for the destruction of the constitution every single day.

Besides, it's like, really old or something.

Drago said...

Kevin is correct.

If Hillary had been elected, NONE of what has come out would have come out.

Ingas pals, fresh off of their 50 year run of covering up for dems and burying their transgressions deep into the ground, would simply have continued to cover it all up.

Now, with the obvious lies about collusion collapsing, Mueller and his team are on a desperate search for Scooter Libby's and if that doesn't work it will have to be the sexual harassment gambit by the lefties and their LLR allies.

GWash said...

You don't necessarily have to believe the women he molested, Trump bragged about his sexual predations. Here is the CREDIBLE list of women that Trump molested:
Jessica Leeds (1980s)
Kristin Anderson (1990s)
Cathy Heller (1997)
Temple Taggart McDowell
Karena Virginia (1998)
Mindy McGillivray (2003)
Rachel Crooks (2005)
Natasha Stoynoff (2005)
Jessica Drake (2006)
Ninni Laaksonen (2006)
Burnett's unnamed friend
Cassandra Searles (2013)

Bay Area Guy said...

Before I knew her, Bay Area Gal told me that a guy once grabbed her ass, she smacked his hand away hard, and then the asshole punched her in the nose.

I would get so angry hearing that story, and feeling powerless, but the lesson I learned from Bay Area Gal, was that, she wasn't traumatized by the incident. It was a messy bloody nose, and she recovered. Her view was that she's glad it happened, and that women should address a shitty scenario (grope, ass-grab, naked man in towel in shower) immediately, even if it means getting fired from a job or popped in the nose, or worse.

Her view is that attractive women (like her), get propositioned and their asses grabbed periodically, and it's up to the women to stand up for themselves - not internalize it, and stew about it for years. She hates that.

I'm not saying this is the only valid position to take. But I respect the hell out of her for taking it.

tim in vermont said...

Liberals proved that they didn't care about this by running Hillary. Now they want Trump gone, they suddenly care, as of three days ago. I can't remember any Democrats who ever stepped down for something like this. I can remember a lot of them Democrats supported. And that the media covered for. Trump was the obvious lesser evil.

brylun said...

Summer Zervos being represented by Gloria Allred, the same lawyer that submitted the "signature" of Roy Moore, D.A. on the yearbook of Ms. Nelson and won't allow the yearbook entry to be authenticated by independent experts. The same Allred that said in a press conference that Ms. Nelson hasn't seen or heard from Roy Moore since the alleged incident, and refused to comment when it was discovered that Roy Moore was the judge assigned to Ms. Nelson's divorce proceeding some ten years later.

Unknown said...

Inga, when the right and the conservatives were screaming "Character matters!" you and your side laughed, mocked, and scorned. Character didn't matter at all.

And guess what: your side won, didn't it? Your side was telling women to give Bill clinton blowjobs so you could kill your babies. And you won.

We ran a guy with impeccable moral character: Mitt Romney. Squeaky clean. You laughed and mocked him.

So now you have Trump. Hey, can't complain can you? Character doesn't matter--you said so! You mocked and called Romney Hitler and misogyinst! He had binders full of women!

Who knew that the left had harems full of raped women? So your side gets to pay the piper now, and boy, I hope you pay to the uttermost farthing.

This whole purge is way overdue, and I don't feel a bit conflicted about Trump skating. Your side chose this war, so now that it's turned into an own goal, we get to enjoy watching you burn.

Maybe if the left is cauterized completely, and all the evil burned out, then--and only then-- can we talk about Republican misdeeds. Especially when your accusers against Moore are so transparently liars.

Enjoy being a representative of the side that loves themselves some raping and harassing, Inga. That's your side; that's your people whom you defend. Along with other leftists: Pro women, all right. Pro women on the bed, more like it. Or being harassed.

Who's surprised, by the way? The only "Pro woman" policy the left has is "Kill your 'mistake' from sleeping with a big democrat politician!" Abortion is simply a way to exploit willing women and tell them there are no consequences for being a slut or a whore. Exactly what did you think was going to happen with that being the highest priority of the Democrat party? you are shocked, shocked to find out that they treat women as sluts and whores? The Democrat party argues for unlimited sex and hedonism; and you are shocked that the party of "Seek your own pleasure at all costs!" is full of sickos who, in fact, sought their own pleasure.

This whole thing couldn't happen to a nicer set of swine. Why are you squealing like one of them, Inga?

--Vance

wwww said...

Liberals proved that they didn't care about this by running Hillary.


Did you miss the booing of her at the D. Convention? Come on, there's a generational difference here.

brylun said...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3205134/summer-zervos-apprentice-donald-trump-sexual-assault-accuser-subpoena/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksyuJNew8Q0

Jon Burack said...

Getting back around to Trump is the inevitable ultimate end of all this. Going after the liberal gropers and grabbers is the price to be paid. So hence we get Harvey and all that has followed. Moore made it easier for them for a day or so, but then Franken complicated it again. So it's the "oh my Bill Clinton, we hardly knew ya" phase now. It is not the last, unfortunately.

One other purpose - and I wish I saw more realism here about this - is to entrench the university-generated attack on masculinity and the substitution of the state and administrative power for true female empowerment, which has nothing at all to do with the woman complaining now in almost all the cases I have seen. The aim is to cement in place the bogus notion that most men not properly feminized are rapists or wanna be rapists. So we need massive and relentless "re-education" and speech and thought control.

Camille Paglia is one of the few true feminists who understand this perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CxWAK3_f1Q&feature=youtu.be

Mae West might have been the only other one, a woman far ahead of her time.

Earnest Prole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Earnest Prole said...

Often we resort to tribalism (myself included), hammering our opponents (Clinton, Weiner, Weinstein, Franken) while ignoring our allies (O'Reilly, Trump, Moore).

The only honest man on this blog.

Pookie Number 2 said...

Inga asks a reasonable question (albeit probably in bad faith):

So why do Republicans follow in the footsteps of Democrats who did wrong by voting for criminals?

Because people continue to be harmed by the short-sighted policies enacted by the criminals for whom Democrats like Inga gleefully voted. Because people continue to be harmed by the abuses of power committed by the criminals for whom Democrats like Inga gleefully voted. And because people continue to be negatively impacted by the cultural degradation pursued by the criminals for whom Democrats like Inga gleefully voted.

Your problem, Inga, is that you're not just ignorant of what's being written and taught by feminist leaders - you're also woefully ignorant of the real-world economic consequences of the policies that sound so superficially attractive to your incurious mind. And you're quite content to allow that suffering to continue and grow, because you lack the integrity to even try to understand why your prescribed policies don't work. People of better character and greater intellect than you see the damage wrought by your joyous human sacrifice of Juanita Broaddrick, and they're unwilling to let that evil persist.

(We're ready for a characteristically stupid response now. Because we know better than to expect a thoughtful response.)

Howard said...

I'll see your Ted Kennedy and raise you one one-hundredth Dennis Hastert

Big Mike said...

Althouse's reason #4 is a contributor. Sebastian's #5 is valid, and a contributor. But the point made in various ways by Hari, Achilles, and Bay Area Guy upthread is probably the most critical: we don't believe the accusers. Only a couple are not refuted by people who were there at the time or by incontrovertable facts. For instance, one woman asserts that Trump raised the arm rest and groped her. But in that time frame passenger aircraft did not have movable, raiseable arm rests.

The case of Clarence Thomas tells us that Democrats can and will recruit women to lie about the character of people on the right. What Ted Kennedy and Chris Dodds did to that poor waitress is not a made-up "fact."

Unknown said...

A News story out this morning about this group of women who are forced to work, and frequently are raped by their superiors. Some enjoy the work and manage to avoid becoming the prey of their superiors, but most of the women are harassed and raped.

Sources are confused as to whether it's the North Korean Army or PBS that the story is from, however..... with a strong possibility of it being the DNC Congressional staff offices too.


Inga, care to let us know which it is?

--Vance

Ron Winkleheimer said...

So when Roy Moore wins the election in Alabama, it will absolve him too. Nice precedent Trump set, huh? What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?

Bill Clinton

tim in vermont said...

So when Roy Moore wins the election in Alabama, it will absolve him too. Nice precedent Trump set, huh? What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?

Not Trump who set the president, more like JFK and Bill Clinton, and Ted Kennedy, all covered for. by the press for decades, as they have belatedly come to admit. Now though, a Republican is in the presidency, so new rules, of course, will be required.

So when Democrats voted for Ted Kennedy despite his crime, he was given absolution and Americans should’ve moved on and gotten on with their lives and not kept bringing up MaryJo.

Only the press, I mean, fair is fair. You will be free to rail away in comment threads 'til your face turns blue, but according to the Teddy/Bill precedent, it's no press coverage. Sorry, these are your rules.

Drago said...

Howard: "I'll see your Ted Kennedy and raise you one one-hundredth Dennis Hastert"

I see you've committed a category error here.

Dennis Hastert was prosecuted and convicted.

Ted Kennedy's punishment? He gets to be run in the democrat primary for President, gets to make primetime speeches to millions of adoring Inga's, sometimes his steak is slightly underdone, and, oh yeah, he gets to write laws that govern the rest of us.

Perhaps there is a better example knocking around in your head Howard.

tim in vermont said...

As a matter of fact, why isn't the press digging up dirt on these women and calling them all nuts and sluts? I guess without Hillary's leadership in these matters, the niceties get ignored. Doesn't Melania know the duties of a presidential wife?

Bay Area Guy said...

Yes, Dennis Hastert was a sleazy wrestling coach. It didn't get much publicity, because he was old and out of office, and, at least, he paid his victim several hundreds of thousands of dollars, although the payment scheme got him busted for violating banking laws.

Laslo Spatula said...

Only a brief moment to skim before a now-emergency visit with the cardiologist and tests --

Althouse: this is why you are my go-to source of thought provocation.

You have the great ability to effectively articulate your view on your myriad subjects.

And your views can be wonderfully contrarian to people of all political stripes.

Thank you for what you do.

I am Laslo.

PackerBronco said...

Liberals are really opposed to sexual crimes and misdemeanors on the part of their politicians if they're dead (Swimmer Ted) or out of power (Willie.) But if they're in office, well, not so much ...

... so no, don't bother lecturing us. We'll discuss this among ourselves and decide what to do in each case, but you have NO STANDING to comment.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Achilles at 11:57 nails it. The media landscape has changed in a fundamental way and the "elites" have lost control of one of their primary ways of shaping public perception. They no longer have a monopoly on mass communications.

There is a reason the Chinese government carefully monitors and controls the content its citizens can access on the Internet.

Unknown said...

This is what happens when power is unchecked.

“Behavior at statehouses, long dominated by male lawmakers, has been thrust into the national spotlight as employees come forward to spell out an entrenched culture of sexual harassment.

This year, both Democrats and Republicans are facing accusations of misdeeds at nearly two dozen state capitols. They include Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont and Washington.

...experts say, the traditional hurdles of speaking out about sexual harassment has begun to change, in part due to fallout from scandals surrounding Weinstein and other prominent men accused of misconduct. Still, much needs to be done to address the issue, they say.

“When we see lawmakers grabbing and groping people or paying people off in secret to keep quiet about abuse that is not indicative of an evolved society,” said Drobac, the Indiana University professor. “We need to move beyond this Wild West, ‘I’m going to indulge all my passions’ society and start living to a higher level.”

Sexual harassment troubles mount in statehouses around the country.

Dougherty, the University of Missouri professor, said while it can be hard to break a culture of sexual harassment in institutions, it can be done through implementing better policies and training. There also needs to be a shift in behavior, she said.

“You have to change the way people interact with each other,” said Dougherty. “Trying to shift behavioral patterns so they match our desired values is really hard word. It’s complex and it takes a committed upper level management to make it happen.”“

KittyM said...

Once again, guys: sexual harassment and abuse is not a party political issue! Abusers and predators inhabit all points on the political spectrum, belong to all parties or belong to none, support Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Nazis and Communists. They occupy all walks of life, they are to be found in all sectors: in entertainment, in science, in business and of course, in government jobs.

It is very boring to read the posts on this issue and realise they are all a variation on "But Roy Moore!" "But Clinton!" "But O'Reilly!" "But Ted Kennedy!"

What point is made by this?

The even more tedious "leftys only want..." "all leftys think..." "all leftys are dishonest on this topic!" are equally mind-numbing.

grackle said...

This current national sexual harassment hype will not affect Trump or his supporters, no matter how many tarnished, now-useless Lefty politicians or their donors (like Weinstein) are sacrificed.

I’m waiting for the list of congressional politicians who used taxpayer money to pay off their sexual harassment accusers to be leaked.

tim in vermont said...

If Harvey Weinstein's good friends Hillary and Bill were in the White House, nobody would have dared to publish Ronan's piece, but he might have self published it, I guess, but it would have been attacked mercilessly, as was the Clinton/Weinstein SOP.

PackerBronco said...

Blogger Howard said...
I'll see your Ted Kennedy and raise you one one-hundredth Dennis Hastert


Swimmer Ted walk off and let a woman to DIE. Never notified the police AT ALL.

He served no time in prison.

The Dems re-elected him to the Senate time and again.

He was lionized by the MSM.

So shove it. Ted was guilty and should have been sent to prison for years and years. The Dem voters and the MSM are also cupable and deserving of utter contempt.

Achilles said...

GWash said...
You don't necessarily have to believe the women he molested, Trump bragged about his sexual predations. Here is the CREDIBLE list of women that Trump molested:
Jessica Leeds (1980s)
Kristin Anderson (1990s)
Cathy Heller (1997)
Temple Taggart McDowell
Karena Virginia (1998)
Mindy McGillivray (2003)
Rachel Crooks (2005)
Natasha Stoynoff (2005)
Jessica Drake (2006)
Ninni Laaksonen (2006)
Burnett's unnamed friend
Cassandra Searles (2013)


The WAPO ran with a story on Roy Moore because a woman had a yearbook signature with 2 different colors of ink.

They wont print these stories.

I would not be surprised if some of these women don't even exist.

tim in vermont said...

Once again, guys: sexual harassment and abuse is not a party political issue!

Sorry, but one political party has been covering for a particular pair of predators for decades, enforcing silence, ostracizing accusers. Can you name that party?

tim in vermont said...

Did Dennis Hastert kill somebody?

Drago said...

KittyM: "Once again, guys: sexual harassment and abuse is not a party political issue!"

The conversation, for those who can keep up, is how party affiliation determines the treatment of sexual harassment accusations and outcomes.

To say it is not a party political issue is naivete on stilts.

Tell that to the Duke Lacrosse Team and to the hundreds of victims of Kampus Kafkaesque Kangaroo courts.

Sorry, you cannot separate politics from this discussion.

The personal is the political.

Philosophical are you on solid ground? Of course. All human beings are subject to temptations and transgression against others.

But, then again, I've been told that traditional philosophy, logic and reason is a white patriarchal mechanism for oppression, so screw that.

Achilles said...

Howard said...
I'll see your Ted Kennedy and raise you one one-hundredth Dennis Hastert

One of these people was run out of congress and his party and convicted.

The other person was not.

Amazingly stupid post.

Unknown said...

KIttyM: Yes, there are predators on both sides of the aisle. But Democrats protected theirs. Republicans cast theirs out.

And to the extent they don't: Remember, most Conservatives want less government everything, including less perverts preying on people. Our side wants moral politicians. We want to have moral standards.

Yours, Kitty? What do we here any time someone says morality? It's a variation of Dracula seeing a garlic covered cross behind the curtain blocking the sun: Screaming, running away, tantrums. How DARE anyone suggest that morality is important! icky, Icky Christian morals!

Used to be that someone's dad or brother would have horsewhipped Franken or Conyers or Bill Clinton, regardless of whether he was president or whatever. But noooooo, adultery and fornication and cheating are sooooo cool! Only old-fashioned moral busybodies could possibly care about that! Why can't we import french morality, where the Minister has a wife and an open mistress! Such an enlightened people!

And now we have French morals, and it turns out, that means raped and assaulted women. That's the legacy of the Democrat party, and you and your side own it, Kitty. I hope you are enjoying it.

--Vance

Nyamujal said...

"But all that isn’t even the most important point. The most important point is that the Republican effort to remove Clinton from office was a constitutional coup d’etat. If you’re young—all this hatred you see today, this right-wing rage machine (which does have its much smaller counterpart on the left); it all started then. The right hated Bill Clinton pretty much because he was a liberal (a moderate-liberal, but as they saw him, a dangerous leftist) from the Woodstock generation who had the effrontery to beat a Republican incumbent at a time when conservatives thought the presidency was theirs for life. Literally from the day he won, some people were plotting how to undo the voters’ verdict. And finally, years later, he handed them some rope.
That is what liberals were confronting. The right’s aim was to nullify a presidential election. Two of them. If Clinton had acquiesced in that, having obviously committed no high crime or misdemeanor, the precedent would have been chilling. No Democratic president after him would have been safe from a similar assault. They would have gone straight after President Gore, on the slightly dodgy fund-raising stuff, and they’d have had the added talking point that Gore’s presidency was especially illegitimate because unlike Clinton he wasn’t even elected. I’m not saying they could have driven Gore from office. I am saying they’d have tried, and they’d have tried with Barack Obama or whatever Democrat came next in that timeline, too. There is no way on earth Clinton should have opened that door."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hell-no-bill-clinton-shouldnt-have-resigned

Hahaha, irony is dead.
Trumpkins and Clinton defenders are in the same fucked up boat.

tim in vermont said...

Google says! No!

Gerry Studds of course used the power of his office to have "sex" with male pages. Democrat! Retired with honors years later, got a rousing obituary for his service to the party.

tim in vermont said...

But all that isn’t even the most important point. The most important point is that the Republican effort to remove Clinton from office was a constitutional coup d’etat. If you’re young—all this hatred you see today, this right-wing rage machine (which does have its much smaller counterpart on the left); it all started then. The right hated Bill Clinton pretty much because he was a liberal

Yeah, that was it. This effort to get Trump though, isn't a "coup d'etat" because it's Democrats doing it!

Achilles said...

KittyM said...

The even more tedious "leftys only want..." "all leftys think..." "all leftys are dishonest on this topic!" are equally mind-numbing.

Pretty easy to say lefties don't care about sexual assault. They elected and supported Bill Clinton.

Just because you don't like Fen's law does not make it an inaccurate description of leftists. You people don't believe a single thing you say.

Drago said...

Nyamujal jumps fully into the Daily Beasts "protect Clinton" to yell "a pox on both your houses" while safely ensconced in one of those houses.

Not exactly a principled position, but certainly one we expected of him.

Next up, Nyamujal lectures others about petty theft as he grabs an orange off a vendors cart and runs away laughing.

Big Mike said...

Jessica Leeds is the one who asserted that Trump raised and unraiseable armrest.

Drago said...

"Gerry Studds of course used the power of his office to have "sex" with male pages. Democrat! Retired with honors years later, got a rousing obituary for his service to the party."

Just like Roman Polanski, Gerry Studds got a proooooooooolllllloooooooonged standing ovation at the end from democrats.

Just like Roman Polanski.

Because...democrat.

tim in vermont said...

It would be a lot easier to accept these arguments from Trump haters if they had clean hands in this area, but they FUCKING RAN HILLARY! We had a choice between two candidates. That's what Democrats gave us as an alternative to Trump.

Just like Moore, if they really wanted to keep him out of the Senate, they wouldn't have waited until he could not be replaced on the ballot before releasing the story. What they want is a Democrat to steal that seat. A Democrat, BTW, who ran an ad glorifying the Confederate Army. Wasn't that racism a few weeks ago? The rankest kind of racism?

Drago said...

Big Mike: "Jessica Leeds is the one who asserted that Trump raised and unraiseable armrest"

Failure to raise an unraiseable armrest is impeachable behavior in Ingas book.

Big Mike said...

Once again, guys: sexual harassment and abuse is not a party political issue! Abusers and predators inhabit all points on the political spectrum

If you don't see a significant difference in the Democrat versus Republican response to allegations, especially proven allegations, then you must need new glasses.

Unknown said...

Never ever forget JFK, the greatest president of all time according to the left. He committed adultery; he arranged and participated in forcing women to sexually service people he wanted them to service.

The left idolizes him. They idolize Ted Kennedy, a rapist murderer. Look at Nyamujal, arguing that Trump should resign while praising Bill Clinton.

Hey, I just thought of something. You want to know who gave women the right to vote first in these United States? It wasn't Susan B. Anthony. It was .... The Mormons. Yes, the Mormons, back in the 1860's or so. Those rightwing Christian moral busybodies, no less! Of course Congress took it away, because Utah was a territory, and heaven forbid Mormon women got a vote. Come to think of it, that sounds like Inga's position today: Christian women aren't real women because they don't vote abortion, so they shouldn't keep the right to vote. And rrhardin no doubt agrees.

--Vance

Drago said...

TIV: "A Democrat, BTW, who ran an ad glorifying the Confederate Army. Wasn't that racism a few weeks ago? The rankest kind of racism?"

Dude, that was a few weeks ago. History has changed at least 14 times since then.

wwww said...


KIttyM: Yes, there are predators on both sides of the aisle. But Democrats protected theirs. Republicans cast theirs out.


Yeah, the young women voters of today can see that. The clean reputation will help the Republican brand in the 50 years to come.

Unknown said...

Maybe the young need to lead the way.

“On Saturday, the Young Republican Federation of Alabama suspended support for Moore's candidacy, calling for Moore to step aside if he is "unable or unwilling to clearly and convincingly" refute the allegations against him.

I think Republicans in Alabama are viewed as a monolith," said 27-year-old Elizabeth BeShears. "It bothers me when people say Roy Moore has the support of evangelical Christians. ... The younger people are just tired of being a laughingstock. They have pride in their state, but they want to see it be better.”

Young professionals and the urban enclaves they often flock to have never been strong performers for Moore, who typically attracts an older and rural voter pool.

But these young conservative voters are also the future of their party, and they're are less focused on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, core tenets of Moore's evangelical base.”

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/20/young-conservatives-speak-out-against-moore-support-it-not-win-our-party/875738001/

wwww said...



Both parties are about to be hit with a flood of harassment investigations. That gives both reason to be wary about setting precedents for resignation, cutting campaign funds, etc. But that's their problem, not yours.

-Benjy Sarlin

Char Char Binks said...

#Itoo

Tank said...

Who, whom.

wwww said...



“On Saturday, the Young Republican Federation of Alabama suspended support for Moore's candidacy, calling for Moore to step aside if he is "unable or unwilling to clearly and convincingly" refute the allegations against him.


I saw this yesterday. Was impressed. I do think the younger generations are less tolerant of sexual creepers.

Interesting Ronan Farrow broke the story, and not a older reporter.

Drago said...

Apparently, Inga keeps forgetting that she and her pals have labeled all republicans Nazi's, so why bother quoting any of them?

Plus, these young voters are from Alabama, and, as we all recall, just a few weeks back Inga blasted and indicted all of Alabama, without exception.

Inga does that alot with non-islamists.

Again, its hilarious that for Inga history begins anew not just each day, but seemingly each hour and we are not supposed to remember what she just wrote a short time ago.

Whatever is needed right now, at this moment, even if it contradicts an immediately previous statement.

Nyamujal said...

"Look at Nyamujal, arguing that Trump should resign while praising Bill Clinton. "
@ Drago and @Unknown

You guys really don't get sarcasm do you? What part of my dislike of both Trump and Bill Clinton did you not get?

Unknown said...

I'd like to know how the left can support people like Lena Dunham, who openly admits to molesting her younger sister.

But that's all cool and ok with the left set, who cheer Lena without reservation.

Funny, Lena says all women should be believed about rape... except the girls accusing Bill and also her fellow producer. Imagine that.

Still, she's Lena Dunham: proud example of female (?) leftist superiority to us subpar peasants. Correct, Inga, Nyamujal, et. al?

--Vance

Cornel M said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

The newsbabes on TV are speaking seriously in as low a pitched voice as they can manage about how unacceptable this is.

You don't want to sound squeaky at such a moment.

tim in vermont said...

nteresting Ronan Farrow broke the story, and not a older reporter.

What part about powerful Democrat is mysterious to you? They tried to spike it.

tim in vermont said...

What part of my dislike of both Trump and Bill Clinton did you not get?

And yet that was the choice that we were offered.

Drago said...

Nyamujal: "You guys really don't get sarcasm do you? What part of my dislike of both Trump and Bill Clinton did you not get?"

LOL

Oh yeah. "Now" you don't like clinton.

Hey buddy, the Official Party Position is that Nobody Likes Clinton, so congrats on your "conversion".

Oh, right right. You never liked Clinton.

uh huh.

You always opposed what they stood for. I mean, you didn't talk about it much. Didn't want to wear on your sleeve, so to speak. But those "principled" positions were always there!

Swearsies!

Just in time for the next timely attack on a republican. What a happy coincidence for you! That really worked out, timewise, didn't it?

tim in vermont said...

I guess Republicans must vote for the guy who wants blacks back in chains that the Democrats are running to prove how moral they are!

Mac McConnell said...

The more leftist women's advocates in politics and the media get exposed it inoculates President Trump. Besides the left demanded that character didn't matter decades ago.

Best tweet of today was that Charlie Rose spent 48 years in journalism and this is the first interesting story he broke.

Qwinn said...

IMO the charges against Moore *have* been debunked convincingly.

For people like Inga, though, that is unpossible. We could have recording of live footage of Moore halfway across the country at the time an attack allegedly took place, and Inga would still insist the charges were completely credible.

Because to a leftist, ironclad proof against a leftist is known as "no evidence'", and no evidence against a conservative is "ironclad proof".

tim in vermont said...

Oh, right right. You never liked Clinton

We have always been at war with Oceania!

rhhardin said...

So there won't be father figures giving the news any longer.

There must be a Greek myth interpretation and corresponding Freudian complex.

Jim at said...

That is how a sociopath thinks. - Inga

An expert speaks.

Mike Sylwester said...

Unknown at 1:15 PM

... calling for Moore to step aside if he is "unable or unwilling to clearly and convincingly" refute the allegations against him.

The women should clearly and convincingly prove their allegations.

Dude1394 said...

When a peck on the lips is sexual assault, then everything is sexual assault. You need to do better.

The tongue forced down the throat is better, go with that.

buwaya said...

"On Saturday, the Young Republican Federation of Alabama suspended support for Moore's candidacy, "

Young Republican Federation are a rather establishment group, NeverTrump in 2016 a la National Review. The current chairman is also a NeverTrumper and was a McMullin backer.

I don't think they were ever for Moore at all.

tim in vermont said...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/28/it-really-doesnt-matter-if-hillary-clinton-is-dishonest

Good old days of ancient history when character didn't matter. But we can believe that the press is being square with us now!

Drago said...

Qwinn: "For people like Inga, though, that is unpossible. We could have recording of live footage of Moore halfway across the country at the time an attack allegedly took place, and Inga would still insist the charges were completely credible"

Interestingly enough, that is precisely the situation we have with Inga/LLR Chucks beloved fake Russian dossier re: Michael Cohen.

Hillary's/FBI funded foreign-agent produced Putin-pals supported Fake dossier claimed Cohen was meeting in Europe with nefarious collusion-y minions of Putin, all the while Cohen was in Los Angeles watching his son play baseball at Southern Cal.

So, you are correct. You could be standing in the middle of times square on camera and any one of a zillion democrat/FBI funded foreign agents could make something up about you and Inga would still believe it.

Qwinn said...

And yeah, funny how Moore's opponent praising the Confederacy, which was the ultimate evil 3 weeks ago, is utterly non-news now, isn't it? Completely unremarkable to the Left. Utterly irrelevant.

Now imagine if Moore had run that ad instead.

Heh.

rhhardin said...

Something to do with the Electra complex and penis envy.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Dude1394: "When a peck on the lips is sexual assault, then everything is sexual assault. You need to do better."

"All men are rapists"
"All penis in vagina sex is rape"

So saith all of those definitely non-party-political pals of KittyM.

bgates said...

You're seeing the reaction purely from a Left/Right divide and not a Boomer/ younger generations divide.

Chappaquidick was 48 years ago. If you pull out the Chappaquidick card on a 25 year old, they aren't likely to know what you're talking about.


Emmett Till was killed 62 years ago. Try finding a 25 year old who didn't read about him in high school or college, and won't be seeing either the HBO miniseries or two movies about him. The aspects of the past that the left wants people to talk about get talked about.

Unknown said...

“I'd like to know how the left can support people like Lena Dunham, who openly admits to molesting her younger sister.”

You don’t speak for me, or for liberals, or the left. I’m sure there are plenty of liberals who don’t support her and think her show was ridiculous. If I recall correctly Althouse enjoyed watching her show.

GWash said...

Achilles said 'I would not be surprised if some of these women don't even exist.'
Why don't you spend a little time and look them up and read their humiliating experiences with predator Trump... it may affect the way you look at these 16 accusers and the others that keep coming... these, as it turns out, are not 'he said, she said'... the president has admitted that he WAS a sexual predator...
It's time to man up and admit that men with power (real or perceived) can act disrespectfully
and often do... not a right/left, republican/democrat, liberal/conservative issue..
Watch your wallets - they are already at work picking your pocket...

Laura said...

"[Abusers and predators] occupy all walks of life, they are to be found in all sectors: in entertainment, in science, in business and of course, in government jobs. . . . What point is made by this?"

The point is you have to apply social penalties for all the unwanted behavior, not just that of a chosen few because you simply don't want them to have access to the power trough.

“'You have to change the way people interact with each other,' said [Professor] Dougherty."

You also have to equalize the public scrutiny and penalties, for both unwanted behavior and false allegations.

Drago said...

Inga: "You don’t speak for me, or for liberals, or the left."

By your own statements and actions you have been exposed.

As have all your fellow travelers.

You will clearly have continued difficulty coming to grips with this reality as we move forward.

And we will be applying your very own rules to you. That, no doubt, is the biggest change of all you will have to adapt to.

Good luck with that. So far, it doesn't look good.

Drago said...

GWash: "Why don't you spend a little time and look them up and read their humiliating experiences with predator Trump"

Hey man, when you drag a $100 bill thru a trailer park......

chuck said...

> list of things you might want to consider:

You left out Russia. Obviously Putin is behind the failure to pursue the allegations against his good buddy Trump.

bgates said...

Here is the CREDIBLE list of women that Trump molested:
...
Burnett's unnamed friend


lol

Unknown said...

“You could be standing in the middle of times square on camera and any one of a zillion democrat/FBI funded foreign agents could make something up about you and Inga would still believe it.”

Trump could be raping your daughter in the next room and you’d believe him when he says he’s just showing her his stamp collection.

Qwinn said...

When a Republican does wrong, all Republicans are to blame.

When a Democrat does wrong, all Americans are to blame.

Feel free to add qualifiers such as "rich" or "powerful" to those, amazingly it still works, as you can see.

Drago said...

GWash: "the president has admitted that he WAS a sexual predator... "

No he didn't.

GWash: "It's time to man up and admit that men with power (real or perceived) can act disrespectfully
and often do... not a right/left, republican/democrat, liberal/conservative issue.."

Oh, there it is.

You can always, and I mean ALWAYS, tell when a story line is going against the lefties. Suddenly, its "not about parties" and all "about society" and "we really can't single anyone out here" yada yada yada yada.

Sorry GWash, but that ain't gonna wash any longer.

Drago said...

Unknown: "Trump could be raping your daughter in the next room and you’d believe him when he says he’s just showing her his stamp collection."

If Trump converted to Islam you would physically protect him while he was doing it and making darn sure all his cousins could migrate over to do the same.

Howard said...

Hastert wasn't driven from congress, he quit to become a lobbyist and was finally busted 9-years later. Repubes are more likely to rape boys than have a hyper hetero sex drive like dems. It explains the homophobia.

Great joke the other day:

Mike Pence believes homosexuality is a choice... he chooses to be heterosexual.

Drago said...

Howard: " Repubes are more likely to rape boys than have a hyper hetero sex drive like dems."

You've had some stats issues in the past.

I'm gonna request you show your work on this one.

And the Pence joke is ok, not great. They can't all be gems.

Unknown said...

Progs have to grovel in the self-criticism sessions. Conservatives can just tell them to fuck off. If progs want to eat their own, go for it.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"What does this say about the character of the people who think this way?"

They they are wise enough to ignore hysterical lefty cunts like you and your lies.

Unknown said...

GWash: "the president has admitted that he WAS a sexual predator... "

“No he didn't.”

Yes, he did.

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/10/grabbing-unsuspecting-and-unwilling.html

October 8, 2016
"Grabbing an unsuspecting and unwilling person's genitals is a criminal act of sexual assault under any definition of sexual assault."

Trump is evidently proud of the fact that he wielded his wealth and star power as a weapon to help him abuse women—to kiss and grope them without their permission. This is violence, full stop.... Trump would be a dangerous enough human being if he were just a regular celebrity with a penchant for groping women. As it so happens, he might also become the next leader of the free world—a position he is manifestly unqualified to hold.... No man whose overriding ideology is that he gets to do whatever he wants—to whomever he wants—should be president."

Writes Robby Soave at Reason.

I said the same thing when I first heard the recording yesterday. Quoting Tim Kaine's "I don't like to say the words that he's used in the past... but this is behavior," I said:
Yes, Tim Kaine is right. Trump's statement — which is itself only words — is a confession to behavior.
Criminal behavior. Sexual assault.


And I agree with Soave that the problem goes beyond sex. It reveals an attitude about how to use power: If there is no external restraint, you can do anything.

You can't trust a person with power who doesn't have an internal moral core and who is not governed by self-restraint.”

Qwinn said...

If you need an example of the above, btw, ask a leftist about the japanese internment camps. America's fault! Btw, do you know who opposed the japanese internment camps? J Edgar Hoover. And Joe McCarthy.

I personally love it when Democrats proclaim their continued adoration for FDR, given that the two parties supposedly completely switched memberships in later decades so as to conveniently project all the Democrats' sins toward blacks onto Republicans.

Anx yet, all modern day Dems love FDR, and all Republicans hate him. Why would they hold the same positions on him that they did 70 years ago, if the parties switched en masse 40 years ago?

Bay Area Guy said...

How all these PAST accusations -- some false, some legit, some serious, some not -- play out will make for some interesting politics. The Bill Clinton rape allegation by Juanita Broadrick, hamstrings the Left. They ignored it and dismissed her to protect their President.

For the future, I have given this advice before, and will do so again.

To young men going to college: stay away from leftwing women, even the good-looking ones. They are trouble waiting to happen. One drink, one argument, one zig, while she zags, and you will be facing some kangaroo court hearing, trying to kick your ass out.

Don't engage them. Smile and nod, and then just ignore them. Focus your attention on conservative women and/or apolitical women. Do not feed the beast!

David said...

5. TrumpHitler has been accused of so much, by so many people, that the accusations lose their sting, and lack credibility. #MeToo started well before the hashtag, and the 2016 election, and many Americans do not trust the accusers of Trump, having seen so many say so much that is ridiculous.

Michael K said...

Repubes are more likely to rape boys than have a hyper hetero sex drive like dems. It explains the homophobia.

Howard, you sound pretty homophobic there. Better repent or you may find you LGBTQ card cancelled.

Qwinn said...

Unknown claims that Trunp admitted to doing something to women "without their permission" based on a quote where he explicitly said "they let you do it".

Pretty much all you need to know.

Michael K said...

Boy, the lefties are on a rampage today.

I love the smell of desperation in the morning. Almost as good as napalm.

Drago said...

Inga: "Yes, he did."

No, he didn't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4978078/Hillary-compares-sex-assaulter-Trump-Weinstein.html

Hillary Clinton falsely claims Donald Trump is an 'admitted sex assaulter' as she compares him to Harvey Weinstein - but claims allegations against Bill are 'clearly in the past'

Clinton was apparently referring to the tape leaked during the campaign where Donald Trump was heard boasting about 'grabbing women by the p****y'

In fact he has never 'admitted' a sexual assault and apologized for 'locker room talk'"

I guess that makes Robby Soave a liar.

Just like Inga.

No wonder you linked to him! Peas in a pod, that sort of thing.

Birches said...

Hope all goes well Laslo.

Really, though, I'd be happy to remove Trump from office right after Franken, Mendendez and Conyers go. Franken and Trump's accusations are about the same, right? Mendendez and Conyers are way worse.

Of course, if you do that, then you get President Pence, who is even worse because he's NEVER assaulted a woman!

Seriously though, the MSM talking points on Trump would be a lot more believable if they didn't criticize the Pence rule. When they do, it shows me they aren't serious about sexual harassment.

Qwinn said...

In my 48 years, and in all my study of history, every single public figure that has ever been gay baited and ridiculed for being gay have been Republicans.

Every. Single. One.

Go ahead. Ask a leftist to name a gay person on their side who was demonized the way Roy Cohn, or J Edgar Hoover (falsely) was, or like Pence just was above. They never can.

EVERYTHING the Left accuses the Rigbt of is projection. Everything.

johns said...

It would be satisfying to come up with a unified theory of why Trump has not lost his job because of accusations that are similar to those that have brought others down. I think a partial explanation is that for molesters in entertainment and news organizations, employers are throwing them to the lions because the employers fear retaliation from viewers. Those who are accused in politics are in a different situation. They don't have to resign if they have not been convincingly accused of criminal behavior. This includes Moore, Conyers, Trump and Franken, for starters. Franken is hurt the worst because there is a picture. And he is the most vulnerable to losing the next election. In this view, Trump is just the most arrogant in blowing off the charges, which have little or no evidence.

Unknown said...

“President Donald Trump's decision to mock Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., for groping a sleeping woman while posing for a photo has once again made him a central figure in the national discussion about sexual assault, harassment and misconduct - and has again brought attention to past accusations against the president himself.
Trump has absolutely no self awareness.

“As a growing number of prominent men have publicly faced accusations, Trump has been selective in responding, largely on the basis of whether the accused is an ally or foe and focusing relatively little on the alleged victims.

Trump called his own accusers "horrible, horrible liars" and threatened to sue them, while coming to the defense of friends such as political commentator Bill O'Reilly and former Fox News chief executive Roger Ailes, accused of harassment or assault. Trump has also been mostly silent on Republican U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore of Alabama, who has been accused of initiating a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl when he was in his 30s, sexually assaulting a 16-year-old waitress and pursuing relationships with at least five other teenagers who were much younger than he.”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-condemns-democrats-defends-republicans-20171117-story.html

Drago said...

Birches: "Seriously though, the MSM talking points on Trump would be a lot more believable if they didn't criticize the Pence rule. When they do, it shows me they aren't serious about sexual harassment."

Of course they are serious about it. It's the next bludgeon to be used on republicans to extend the fake "War on Women" campaign that all the pro-islamists like Inga are so fond of.

Of course, now that its been exposed that there are literally hundreds and thousands of lefty abusers and male/female enablers of those abusers as well as democrat law firms employing platoons of goons to intimidate victims of that abuse,....well. That makes it a little harder for our lefty liars to advance their agenda using the "War on Women" tool.

Not to worry.

Since most of the lefties army of idiots is comprised of Ingas, the dems know they don't have to explain any of it away. Just find the next republican and all is well in lefty MSM/Dem/LLR media land.

johns said...

Conyers is denying all, like Trump. Menendez is denying all, like Trump. So Trump is not unique, as some have tried to argue.

Drago said...

Inga: '“As a growing number of prominent men have publicly faced accusations, Trump has been selective in responding, largely on the basis of whether the accused is an ally or foe and focusing relatively little on the alleged victim."

LOL

Yeah. The members of the party of clinton actually put that out there!

Drago said...

Poor Inga.

She thinks its still 1976 and constant cutting and pasting from "reputable" sources will win the day.

Howard said...

Drago:"And the Pence joke is ok, not great. They can't all be gems."

It was better as told in deadpan by Judah Friedlander

Drago said...

"Conyers is denying all, like Trump"

Wow.

Conyers is denying all.

Why, just about 27 seconds ago that was a real flaw in someone. But now, 27 seconds later and with a democrat in the crosshairs, perhaps a more nuanced look at the facts is warranted!

LOL

Drago said...

"It was better as told in deadpan by Judah Friedlander"

Ok, I can definitely see that.

But you still owe me a beer for that little "Navy/Air Force" confusion kerfuffle.

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