"One of many reasons we left Seattle after my husband retired was for lower property taxes," writes mockturtle in the comments to my post about the GOP tax bill, where I mention that Meade and I pay more than $17,000 in property taxes on our house in Madison.
We're still here, so that means that so far with think it's worth it, but the high property tax does bother us, and when we think about where else we might want to live, taxation is a factor. But I care a lot about living somewhere that is interesting to me, and I want a house where I can walk out the door and, right from that point, have many interesting walks.
One of the places I'd consider is the one mockturtle says she left: Seattle. Washington State has the benefit of no income tax, but obviously the revenue must be found in some other way.
Sure, there are lots of places with low taxes, but name one where I'd enjoy living. We have many things here that we love, and I would not move to a worse place. $17,000 is a lot, but only the last $X thousand is spent on things I'd carve off the budget if I were given the power to structure the whole thing. And if they tried to hand that power over to me, I wouldn't even take it. That's not my line of work and not my expertise or my joy in life.
A community is a package deal. Some things you like and some things you don't. If it gets too off balance, you might leave, but only if somewhere else is better. You have to live somewhere. We've had a lot great times here. It's a beautiful neighborhood, and I can walk to 3 lakes from here. There are trees and nice architecture and shops and restaurants. I can walk to downtown. There are bike paths all over. Meade loves the mountain bike trails. We could look at the shortcomings, like the fact that the city is taking maybe an extra $500 a month from us to do things we would not do, but when we look at the good, it's close to paradise.
Maybe somewhere else is close to paradise too. Tell us about a place and maybe we will rent an apartment there and spend some time living there and give it a chance (and ultimately uproot ourselves and relocate). But we're not going to go somewhere just to improve our household budget by $500 a month (or even $2,000 a month). It's got to offer great walks, beginning at our doorstep, beautiful scenery, and a real sense of place.
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 240 of 240I'll throw this in though I doubt it will get much consideration. Anchorage AK. Winters are long (8 months), but mildish due to being near the ocean. Summers are to die for- lush to the point of being tropical. Extremely bike friendly.
Lincoln Park, Chicago, and second place in western Michigan or southern Wisconsin. Get the best of both city and country. Saugatuck, Michigan, is one of the great small places on earth.
Yeah. Chicago, Detroit and Baltimore are great and I understand the housing prices are reasonable.
Chicago is a great city. Architecture, walks, the lake, the Cubbies, the food. But it's a BIG city. Many people don't like big cities.
Even Seattle might be too busy for Althouse. Traffic is kind of a nightmare.
Maybe Wilmette, just north of Chicago on the lake. A lot of those burbs came about in the mid 19th-century and have historic places to walk. Just a short train ride away from the loop.
But, nah, taxes are high in Illinois.
Bottom line: They don't want to leave. It's a nice place, so why leave? Some people get itchy feet and wanna move. Others don't want to move.
Andalusian dialect. You get an ear for it in the colonies. Andalusian was the imperial dialect.
Check out Lola Flores videos for a slightly over the top rendition of Andalusian. She did come by it honestly, a tavern keepers daughter from Jerez.
"Even Seattle might be too busy for Althouse. Traffic is kind of a nightmare."
Not if you live where ya wanna be.
It's like being in LA, but only existing between Venice-Santa Monica-West Hollywood: i.e. no highways, no notable traffic, lotsa walk-ability (e.g. via boardwalk between Santa Monica and Venice). Great place to spend some time in winter, imho.
Anywho, gettin' back to my suggestion that Meadehouse should stream local radio for all the cities they're thinkin' about, here's an excerpt from today in Seattle that has a lib saying Lauer could be a sociopath and they talk about new development in some Seattle hoods:
http://mynorthwest.com/category/podcast_player/?a=10024956&sid=1006&n=The+Ron+and+Don+Show
Grandview or Bexley areas of Columbus, OH. You’d love it.
I'd stay in Madison. But what the heck, allow me to put a plug in for Kansas City. There are some wonderful old homes just south of the plaza, and from there both westport and brookside are within walking distance as well as the plaza itself. UMKC is also an easy walk. KC has a very strong arts and theatre scene.
27 below in NH---but isn't that at the higher elevations? Portsmouth and the coastal areas don't really get the kind of deep snow that the Mountains and higher elevations do, I'm thinking. However, I only go there during Spring & Summer, which tells you something. Still, if I were in the market for moving, I might put up with any amount snow to have zero sales tax and no income tax.
Not if you live where ya wanna be.
oh yeah most def. But Seattle and even Chicago aren't too big for me.
I get the impression Althouse want to be able to walk some where quiet in a few minutes. There are places in the city to do that, but if she wants to be able to both walk to downtown Seattle or to Pike Place Market and also walk somewhere quiet within 10 minutes, there aren't tons of options.
Madison is a lot slower pace then Seattle or Chicago.
Maybe another mid-western college town would be fun for her, but she's already in a college town.
wwww,
Cowen/Ravenna Park is an amazing place.
All the city sounds go away. [Yes, I do know that the place has the so-called Ravenna Rapist taint, but that was a ways back.]
Anywho, the city has other such refuges which are easily accessible (if yur based in the city).
AnyAnywho, I do get that the uniqueness of those places prove your point, cause those places are the exception re true solitude v urban hustle and bustle.
OTOH, there are some amazing minds in Seattle (after sorting through the majority, who are lib nuts). Meeting and jabbering w/ them is hard to top. IMHO. And, what else re solitude-0type stuff is better re what matters, i.e. firing mucho neurons between our ears?
Earnest Prole said...Have a look at San Luis Obispo, a quaint college town with tree-lined streets exactly halfway (3.5 hours) between San Francisco and Los Angeles.
San Luis Obispo may be a bit too close to the other Althouse and Meade.
♪...Houston, too close to New Orleans...♪
I've lived in several "desirable" places: Madison, WI area; Fort Collins, CO; Cleveland, OH; Zurich, CH; NorCal: (Sunnyvale), and then SoCal: San Diego, Oceanside. We recently moved to Irvine and I must say we quite like it here. You sure can't beat the weather.
I think Althouse and Meade would like the Front Range in CO.
Cowen/Ravenna Park is an amazing place.
That's near the university district, right? It's beautiful, and interesting places to walk, but not sure if it's quiet enough for Althouse and Meade. Also not sure if the University district is the type of walk they're looking for. It's not a downtown area, and the architecture isn't quite as interesting as Capitol Hill. Madison is historic and has beautiful architecture, but it's very walkable when not being mobbed by students.
I get the impression A& M like to get to places they can mountain bike & I get the idea it's not a long walk to be able to do it. The university is beautiful to walk around, but there's almost always people around.
OTOH, there are some amazing minds in Seattle (after sorting through the majority, who are lib nuts). Meeting and jabbering w/ them is hard to top. IMHO. And, what else re solitude-0type stuff is better re what matters, i.e. firing mucho neurons between our ears?
Agreed. Lots of interesting people there. One of my friends from Austin is now located there. I like the city a lot. But I'm good with the traffic, no sun and a lotta drizzle. :)
wwwww,
That Cowen/Ravenna thing (they're contiguous) gets you to the Burke Gilman trail. And that can be a Lake WA loop, or Lake Wa and Lake Sam loop, or an even bigger more East loop (if Meade is up to it).
Anywho, I'm not trying to sell Seattle to Meadehouse. I don't think it's a good fit for them. As you're noting imho it's a bit too much for them.
My gushing in this thread is just me convincing myself to spend more time in the city.
And, there's the water. Via kayaks.
OK, I can't take it.
My '18 resolution is to be in Seattle (overnight, so day visits don't count) for at least 15% of the year.
Flagstaff, Arizona. A vibrant downtown district, mountains, walks, and a temperate climate.
BTW,
Maybe some here saw the very recent Anthony Bourdain thing re Seattle. Y'all may not know that those were 'ringers' who were pumping the message that folks should stay away cause we gots serial killers around every corner.
[BTW, did ya notice how I, up-thread, pointed out the rape epidemic?]
Best case scenario for ya is that we're hyping this stuff. But, that's still horrible re a transplant.
Carry on. Where ya are. Or anywhere else, not here.
One of the places I'd consider is the one mockturtle says she left: Seattle.
I think you would like Bellingham, WA better. You can walk to parks, no traffic. Much cheaper. If you live in the county outside incorporated Bellingham property taxes would be more like 2-4k a year.
You are an hourish from Seattle if you want to go there and an hourish from Vancouver BC if you want to go there.
Just a hunch.
Lisbon Portugal. Most speak English. Your cost of living is 35% cheaper. They like Americans. Plus you can tour Europe on the cash you save
Gig Harbor, WA - quaint fishing village 45 minutes from downtown Seattle, walking town, Puget Sound and Olympic mountains . . .
For example here is an apartment we rented last summer. Right down town. 3 bedroom. 120 euros
http://www.diva-apartments.com/rentals/allrentals/apartment-lisbon-diva1/
"Gig Harbor, WA - quaint fishing village 45 minutes from downtown Seattle, walking town, Puget Sound and Olympic mountains . . ."
Too small. In fact, a lot too small.
This is like Mock saying she lived in Seattle.
Reality = if yur talking about being in Seattle (in a nice house, in a nice hood) = being in Seattle. If someone wants to jabber about close but no cigar to Seattle, you should be on Bainbridge, not Bellingham, not Federal Way (Mock), not Gig Harbor, not anywhere else.
IMHO.
BTW, Seattle has good, close stuff to the East and West. But the West stuff (Olympic peninsula) is uber close from Bainbridge. I'm a West-ender (in three houses) more than 50% of the time.
27 below in NH---but isn't that at the higher elevations?
It was 35 years ago, and near Henniker. I remember I had to adjust the points on my VW Beatle to get it started. By the time I finished it was 15 below, started right up. I am no mechanic, and I have no Idea why I did it, probably because it was about the only thing besides an oil change I knew how to do, but it worked great.
A lot of this discussion gets into economics, socio economics, and snobbery. I know people who are really happy to have a hundred acres and a double wide an hour from the nearest city. Genuinely happy, even. Place to cut firewood and shoot rabbits, or snowshoe hares, get their deer for the season, etc. I am sure Peanut Butters would consider that a kind of imprisonment. I also know people who think that living in a gated golf community in Florida is about as good as it gets. I don't understand them either. I know people who live in the Back Bay of Boston, and I have to admit it is pretty nice. I would rather have a condo or rent in the North End, myself.
If the thing you like to do is get out before dawn and hunt ducks, or fish for walleye, NYC sucks. If you like jazz clubs, and fine Basque food, then you might not like Burlington, VT, which has a couple really good restaurants, but not a food scene like Cambridge.
What I don't get is why some commenters, who have made if very clear that they have a shit ton of money, probably inherited, I would infer from some of that commenter's posts, feel the need to indulge in snobbish comments toward others. I hate to bring politics into it, but when did snobbishness become a marker for a Democrat?
My dad, who was buried in a tie with donkeys on it, would be appalled at the direction that the Democratic Party has taken with regards to its FDR coalition roots.
Well, I have two cousins that recently retired to Fort Mohave, AZ. They seem to do a lot of walking and exploring in rocks and cacti.
Personally, my retirement plans are to move near Ludington MI, mostly to be close to daughter & son in law. But western Michigan is a beautiful place.
Why don't you just downsize and stay in Madison? Not every home has a 17,000 property tax bill.
Jeez- you got a lot of action on this one. I think you had some great ones tossed out at you. Asheville, Nashville, and other points southeast. Great towns. Nice people. Nashville is getting very interesting. Great feel to it. Lots to do. Asheville remains a work in progress as well. Very beautiful area surrounding the town. Very mellow vibe that's clashing with upscale demand. A great arts community (with a lot of talent there) Nice place.
Someone mentioned Mill Valley, CA. Yes- that would be the best spot of all. Except that it's in Marin County, CA. You'll pay for the privilege. And pay. And keep paying.
I'd say you'd love Ann Arbor. But you already did that. And hell, Madison is Ann Arbor with lakes, though maybe not as good a foodie scene.
But, ultimately home is home. You're a Madisonian. You've got your sense of place. Your seasons. The streets you know and love. The faces you see at the coffee shop, around town. Can't duplicate that anywhere. I say you stay put. Sometimes the best place of all is the place you live.
Mr. 'Anywho' says I didn't live in Seattle but our address was definitely Seattle. Prior to Normandy Park we lived in West Seattle for a few years [Alki]. Far from being 'shitty', Normandy Park is a lovely community [an incorporated city with its own police force] overlooking Puget Sound.
Mr 'Anywho' seems to enjoy insulting me for reasons known only to him. I usually ignore his posts because they are rife with misinformation.
Achilles suggests: I think you would like Bellingham, WA better. You can walk to parks, no traffic. Much cheaper. If you live in the county outside incorporated Bellingham property taxes would be more like 2-4k a year.
While I admittedly don't know a lot about Bellingham, my brother went to WWU and liked the ambience of the area. Sounds like a nice alternative.
An you would never move to the South.
One of my best friends moved to Bellingham and he loves it. He's always posting pictures on Facebook similar to the ones you post here.
If you can afford it though, why move? Have you sought out any senior citizen tax advantages that might be available? I'm 65 and have to admit I haven't gone to the effort where I live even though I know they are available.
Another thought on WA state: You might like Olympia. Predictably leftist, very cloudy and rainy but on the Sound, near the mountains. Anywhere in Western WA will get you plenty of biking and hiking experiences. And, being the capital, it's bustling [with lobbyists, bureaucrats and politicians].
Some timely advice:
https://youtu.be/m8odYx2Rq5E?t=11m45s
Port Angeles WA. 100 miles west of Seattle. A wonderfully beautiful unique place in the Rain Shadow, but I suspicion to simple of a place for your tastes.
https://youtu.be/Tba9O5AUA9k
Port Angeles WA. 100 miles west of Seattle. A wonderfully beautiful unique place in the Rain Shadow, but I suspicion to simple of a place for your tastes.
https://youtu.be/Tba9O5AUA9k
Sorry about all you WA staters pushing for your state, but I doubt that Ann and Meade are interested in changing from "partly cloudy" to "mostly cloudy." Who would be?
Chickelit, it was Althouse, herself, who mentioned Seattle as a possibility. There are people [not me, which is why I'm now in AZ] who actually prefer gray skies and rain. Seattle isn't as rainy as other parts of western WA.
MayBee said...
But it is the best big city in the US for sure.
You're so cute.
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