September 24, 2017

Classic liberal manipulation: Creating the fear that you will be thought of as uncaring.



This is particularly effective used against women. I will never forget the time I heard a little girl in the playground — reacting to a criticism I can only imagine — expressing anguish with the repeated line "I don't want to be mean!"

And that is how women are disciplined into insignificance. 

Professor Mark Kleiman has no reason whatsoever to think that I don't care that young men are suffering brain damage playing football. Yet he throws out that charge about me to push me back and to warn other people (women, especially, I suspect) that we should be afraid that if we don't merge our identity with whatever the liberal line happens to be, we will be regarded as lacking in empathy and deserving of social shunning.

Say no, little girls and little women. Don't fall for that manipulation. I don't fall for it anymore, but I am old, and I lost a lot of time reacting to the fear of being thought not to care and the mind-numbing, thought-inhibiting effort to be nice. Absurdly, I do still care. That's why I have to write a post like this to show my work suppressing the fear. I hope in doing this I've helped somebody like that little girl whose "I don't want to be mean!" made such an impression on me decades ago. 

239 comments:

1 – 200 of 239   Newer›   Newest»
MaxedOutMama said...

There are times when you are purely admirable, and this is one of those times. Your blogging is always good, but you have a stubborn personal integrity which is something special, and particularly distinguished in these times.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

If the very people playing football cared about their own brains, they would stop. They don't stop because A) the money is good B) they like to play football for big bucks and glory.

C) It's our fault, for watching. You mean viewing assholes!
OK - since we are skate-boarding on the "blame women" tour, it's her fault! (+ you're racist.)

Is this still part of the Hillary lost butt hurt party?

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Great post - btw. Helped me a lot, doc Ann.

buwaya said...

This is a cultural thing I think. And social media is a really weird place.

Elsewhere the personal is much less likely to be the political, and there is plenty of license to be "mean". There is less delusional "social justice", and values differ anyway.

Talk to Chinese women sometime, if you can get them with their hair down in their native environment.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

The answer is - we all must stop watching football, or - WE ARE MEAN!

Ray said...

Sad that somebody that credentialed, shot from the hip on AA's political stance.

Cruel neutrality would be much more accurate.

And he pays with his reputation, as the Internet does not forget in the US.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

"Typical" would be more of a put down than "classic" which still has tinge of awe/admiration.

JAORE said...

Maybe CTE will cause FB players to quit, but I doubt it. Steroids caused some nasty long-term effects, but they persisted.

If FB is killed it won't be by the players.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I will believe Professor Mark Kleiman cares about "free expression" when he stands up for the rights of conservatives on campus.

Until then, he only cares about "free expression" that he agrees with.

I am choosing to boycott the NLF. I'm sure other conservatives will as well. That means we won't watch the games. We won't hit people over the head with a bike lock if they choose to watch.

Leftists don't boycott speech they don't like. They try their best to both shut down the speaker and prevent other people from hearing them.

But to a leftist, any criticism of leftist "free expression" is oppression and censorship.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ok, I agree with you fully here (Kleiman can go fuck himself, everyone knows the left doesn't give a fan about "free expression" they disagree with--they barely even bother to hide it anymore), but: didn't the libertarians lose you forever by not being nice (or seeming empathetic) ENOUGH, Professor?
Seems like the niceness needle is difficult to thread.

Freeman Hunt said...

"I hope in doing this I've helped somebody like that little girl whose 'I don't want to be mean!' made such an impression on me decades ago."

It *is* helpful. As are your past comments on this topic.

Darrell said...

Did Kleiman play football? It would explain a lot.

rcocean said...

Its politics vs. real life. In real life, we love that the women we know are "nice". Who wants a mother, wife, daughter, who's "mean"?

But that has nothing to do with "Politics". For thousands of years Women didn't get involved in politics. Now you are. Cause some women wanted to be.

So, now Women will have to do what men have always done. Separate the personal form the public.

buwaya said...

CTE danger in pro football is an interesting conservative opportunity for a rhetorical offensive to shut down the NFL and ESPN.

From the point of view of political warfare a successful destruction of these would be a useful show of force, that the conservative public can sanction industries demonstrating hostility. This may shift the balance of political risk businesses have to consider.

rcocean said...

"Did Kleiman play football? It would explain a lot."

I have a feeling Kleinman spent a lot of his childhood with his Mom, talking Politics.

FWBuff said...

I’m with Althouse. She made a great point in her earlier post about the inconsistency of the liberal position. Kleiman responded with an ad hominem (ad feminem?) attack rather than engaging on the merits. As @MaxedoutMama said, I greatly admire Althouse’s integrity in calling him on it.

Chuck said...

Nothing good ever happens on Twitter.

I don't even understand what Kleiman is trying to say. I'm not going to work at it, because I just don't care.

There is a wonderful new WSJ editorial. Matt Drudge is linking to it. Here:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-politicization-of-everything-1506291118


rcocean said...

Kleiman is just another Liberal playing by Alinsky's rules - or should I say Al Davis Rules.

"Just win, baby - just win."

Once you realize that, its hard to care what the Left says about anything.

William said...

I don't see how Kleiman arrived at his inevitable and ineluctable conclusion. This was not such a dazzling display of logic, but he did state his biases with an economy of words. There's something to be said for that.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Certain leftist commenters practice the "you're cold-hearted" manipulation all the time.

Bill said...

I've been reading you for ten years and didn't even know you were on Twitter.

Oso Negro said...

Sometimes it just feels really good to be mean. Self-actualizing, even. There are so many possible things and people to not give a fuck about. The NFL players for example. I don't give a fuck about anyone of them. Not one. It would be great if black protests spread on from not respecting the national anthem to refusing to take one single dime of public assistance. Let self-respecting black people accept NOTHING from whitey. Especially not his money.

madAsHell said...

Did Kleiman play football?

No. Football is where young men learn about violence, and how to handle aggression......of course, there are some failures.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

It is winning by inducing Stockholm syndrome ... The captive begs for approval from captor.

Greg Hlatky said...


The NFL players for example. I don't give a fuck about anyone of them.

Neither does Mark Kleiman.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Ayn Rand called it sanction of the victim years before it was so clearly exhibited in real life.

Meade said...

Professor Kleiman isn't a very nice man. In fact he seems to be made of frogs and snails and puppy-dogs' tails.

themightypuck said...

I'm with Meade on this one. I used to enjoy Kleiman back in the day on bloggingheads.tv but he doesn't seem very nice.

buwaya said...

The WSJ editorial misses the point. Or perhaps, it wants to obscure it.

The divisions were already there, and getting rapidly worse, long before Trump. Trump licensed one side, that which had been deliberately suppressed, to object. Now what was hidden is open.

The route is opening to resolution, by some means or another. I hope it is that the PTB are sufficiently frightened to make amends. Otherwise the open break that was in the cards will come anyway.

traditionalguy said...

Liberals know they do not feel anything at all for the oppressed, so they naturally presume you do not either. For Example see, how much generous charity the Clinton Foundation lavished on the poor Haitian earthquake victims out of the 8 billion dollars in donations they raised among the rich world governments and pocketed.

David Begley said...

Mark Kleiman (whoever he might be) surely doesn't have TWO MILLION page views per month. Loser,

I know Mark will read this and I see his snarky motto on his insignificant website, but understand this: we don't care about your NYU opinion.

Comanche Voter said...

Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn that you think I'm uncaring. 3


Don't lay any of that liberal guilt trip crapola on me. I care about what's important--and if you don't like it, take a hike!

Michael K said...

If I knew who he was, I might be impressed.

M Jordan said...

Be mean, Ann, when the means justify the ends.

But , tbh, you ne very see m mean to me.

Angel-Dyne said...

Looks more like "classic" angry toddler to me. (Lot of that going around these days.)

He got angry at you and called you a poopy-head.

Michael K said...

Chuck, I read that editorial. Did you read the comments ?

Trump has a lot of support there.

traditionalguy said...

buwaya's comment reminds me of the name Protestants. That name was slanderously applied to sincere Christians because they "protested" against Catholic Church's robbery torture and auto de fe burnings of them to death for Heresy.

chuck said...

I have a simple rule of thumb when it comes to the Left; the Left is always wrong about everything. I suppose that once in a while there might be a pony under those vast piles of manure, but it isn't worth the effort to find out.

Michael P said...

Well said. I guess Kleiman isn't quite smart or wise enough to know not to try such shenanigans with Althouse.

Meade said...

"Be mean, Ann, when the means justify the ends."

This is great life advice for anyone.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, well written. Meade won the heart of a good 'un.

Bill Peschel said...

Poo-flinging monkeys, all of us. And as Game of Thrones teaches, it's all personal.

I would love to boycott the NFL, but I gave up on them a long time ago, so I don't count. I can't even virtue signal.

I used to play football in a youth league. Back then, I'd watch the NFL and the NFL Films shows. Unfortunately, we had asshole coaches who didn't coach, so it was like "Lord of the Flies" with helmets. No idea what to do except whatever I did wasn't good enough. Really harsh to go through as a 9 year old kid.

Same thing with basketball at the Y, where one of the popular guys coached one of the teams, against the rest of us who didn't count.

I learned that participating in team sports was a shitty way to go through life. It taught me that the charmed get everything and the rest of us get shit on.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

If your heart doesn't bleed they'll cut it for you.

Kevin said...

Liberals never seem to worry about coming across as mean. It's because they have been told they're on the right side of history, so they needn't bother with how they treat people with opposing views.

Quaestor said...

Althouse doesn't care about brains or freedom

Quaestor cares deeply about brains but not so much about freedom. Brains should be well cared for, but confined strictly to their individual jars and not allowed to ooze around willy nilly.

BGrear said...

For decades liberals used starving children, abused animals, and other props as part of their propaganda to "win" their arguments. If you don't support "XYZ" (PETA, Sierra Club, increased taxes, special interest cause of the day) then you must be a cold-hearted jerk because of the poor children or whatever. That's changed.

Those causes went away this past year. Now it's the liberals themselves who act as if they are the primary victims and not the starving children props or whoever it was that they supposedly were acting on the behalf of.

Trump (or any non-leftist speaker) is attacking "me" directly, making "me" feel bad and I need to go to a safe space, violating "me" with hate speech, etc. I found this change very interesting - maybe the outrage has stripped the liberals of their decades-long, somewhat effective boiling-the-frog progressive propaganda. They can't seem to hold anything back now. They are abandoning their props. Full on in-your-face antifa attacks everywhere. Their blatant contempt for "others" who disagree with them is shining through very loudly now.

Kevin said...

"We're on the right side of history" is the secular equivalent of "God is on our side".

These people are as religiously fanatic as anyone I have ever met. Worse because they believe they're anti-religious.

cubanbob said...

I used to care when I was younger. Now that I'm old I know better.
If asked if I care, I say to them you must have me confused with someone who gives a crap.
Regarding the National Felons League, a good portion of the players are risking potential long term brain damage but earning millions or become the muscle for gangs for relative chump change and the risk at best of long term imprisonment and/or lead poisoning.

buwaya said...

Luthers objections had nothing to do with the treatment of heretics. Nor for that matter did the other early Protestants (Calvin, Knox, etc.) for the most part, as they were for limiting the religious liberty of those who disagreed with them quite as much as the Catholic Church.

Jack Wayne said...

CTE=GlobalWarming=Tobacco=White Supremacy=Nuclear Power=Ozone Hole=Silent Spring=lots of other things. Whatever can be a weapon will become a weapon against common sense and individuality. Simply by saying that football creates CTE, without any proof at all, the lefties have defined the argument. The only defense is to emulate them. Which leads inexorably to conflict. Moderates are pretty much helpless in that environment.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Kleiman and his ilk have very good track record of getting the results they want in politics ... Not good for human life though.
GOPe fall for it always.

Altruism as Appeasement ... Ayn Rand

bagoh20 said...

Lets be honest. We don't care about victims quite as much as we care about our image. We care - just not as much, but that's human and it's OK. We still care, and we are not mean. We are normal, grounded and loving. We are just scared of being misunderstood and not loved. Is that so bad? I'm OK - you're OK.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Boycott CTE. Boycott Professional Football.

For the children.

Kevin said...

"Do you fully acknowledge your white privilege?" is the secular equivalent of "Have you taken Jesus Christ as your personal savior?"

One cannot be devout without acknowledgement of sin and the need for external salvation.

Kristian Holvoet said...

"Do you fully acknowledge your white privilege?" is the secular equivalent of "Have you taken Jesus Christ as your personal savior?"

I disagree. It is the equivalent of 'Have your stopped beating your wife?'

The Grey Man said...

" I have never understood why one must become irrational in order to prove that one cares. Nor, indeed, why it is necessary to prove it at all." Avon, "Blake's 7"

Scorpius said...

Prof. Althouse,

It's not only women who are manipulated into self-insignificance.

Jon Burack said...

I completely agree that Kleiman is pulling the usual b.s. liberals pull about "caring." And Ann is absolutely right to dismiss his power play here. What I am not so sure of is whether this has all that much to do with her being a woman that Kleiman can bully into feeling bad for being mean. I think the left plays this card rather indiscriminately against everyone, especially ever conservative. Has Paul Krugman for instance every written a single column in which he does not use the word "cruel" for some conservative or conservative policy he disagrees with?

n.n said...

I would suggest that Kleiman go Plan himself, but that Choice is probably disproportionate to the consequences of his gross mischaracterization.

CTE danger in pro football is an interesting conservative opportunity for a rhetorical offensive to shut down the NFL and ESPN.

Tempting. Very tempting. However, that would require future interventions in activities with inherent and progressive risk in order to avoid the dreaded bigot label. Framing matters, lest we expand the principle to liberal proportions. I suppose we could simply offer an assertion -- perhaps pulled from the twilight fringe -- and repeat it until the Asses stop biting and braying. What are the odds of that ever happening?

YoungHegelian said...

Luthers objections had nothing to do with the treatment of heretics.

Forget about it, BP. It's TradGuyTown.

bagoh20 said...

This affects men and women a little differently but each effectively. Women, of course, need to be seen as caring and compassionate. It's a required box on the human female card. Men are manipulated because we are assumed to be hard and heartless, and constantly need to prove otherwise or we are deemed dangerous. We need that box checked to be safe to love. Women need it to be true women. It's all pretty mean stuff we do to each other.

Bay Area Guy said...

Why doesn't Kleiman make whatever point on CTE he wants to make without reference to Althouse's opinion?

exiledonmainstreet said...

" I think the left plays this card rather indiscriminately against everyone, especially ever conservative. "

Ritmo does it here all the time. If you don't believe in big government social programs, that means you want poor people to die. (So does he, if they are Trump voters in Texas, but that's different because those people are bad.) If you care about voter fraud, that means you want blacks to undergo poll tests. If you stand up for Christian bakers, that means you are homophobic.

And yes, women are susceptible to this line of argument. I'm not at this point, because, like Ann, I'm not a spring chicken, and having the "compassion" card played on you is the same as having the "race card" played on you. After seeing that tactic employed 10,000 times, it loses its sting and becomes a canard you just roll your eyes at and dismiss.

MayBee said...

Exactly, BAG.

And what, precisely, is all of Kleiman's caring doing? Besides making him feel good about himself and superior to those he deems not to care enough?

mockturtle said...

If you let guys like Professor Kleiman manipulate you, then you probably are insignificant.

walter said...

Jon Burack said...I completely agree that Kleiman is pulling the usual b.s. liberals pull about "caring." And Ann is absolutely right to dismiss his power play here. What I am not so sure of is whether this has all that much to do with her being a woman
--
Absolutely..turning this into a gender bit is quite odd.
More odd is how long it took someone to even question that.
Yeah..the critique was leveled by a man.
Is that it?
WTF?

brylun said...

Kleiman is a bully, plain and simple.

Great WSJ editorial, Chuck, and Dr. K you are right about the support for Trump in the comments.

I have discussed with my wife how we can cut the cable bill. Also, I would support a movement to unbundle the cable channels so I can choose which channels I want to pay for. Absent unbundling, maybe we'll cancel the whole thing. They don't deserve our money.

traditionalguy said...

You Catholic raised guys are nice guys. But you are indoctrinated by apologetics to pardon the some 100 years of counter reformation terror by the Catholic Kings and the Pope's Jesuit killers. Luther was a nice guy as far as stubborn Germans go, and he only escaped a death like John Hus's by the skin of his teeth. And saying Calvin did it too is really a pathetic excuse.

David said...

This is a technique that is applied with equal vigor against men and women, as far as I can tell. It's pretty much a constant across the board.

Meade said...

"Yeah..the critique was leveled by a man.
Is that it?"

No. It's that the man is a liberal.

dwick said...

Then again maybe Kleiman, right or wrong, just finds inconsistency in YOUR personal opinions/views here and all your suspicions and subsequent huffing and puffing are pointless wasted horn-blowing.
It takes a special kind of ego to annoint oneself as some sort of official representative of over half of humanity so to claim that any criticism of or disagreement with you is systemic oppression of the entire female population.

Achilles said...

Kleiman is just a object example that the left and the people there have no common interest with people that don't follow their diktats.

They use any means at hand to inhibit the freedom of others. They have to be defeated One way or another.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Luther was a nice guy as far as stubborn Germans go"

Jews might be of a different opinion. Read "On the Jews and Their Lies>" I don't see much of an improvement from Mother Church there.

Both Protestants and Catholics behaved badly during Europe's religious wars. And the Puritans who settled in New England and the Anglicans who settled in Virginia were not at all tolerant toward other Protestant denominations. How were Penn and the Quakers treated in England?

Lots of heretic hunting and witch burning and intolerance to go around. The Catholic church had no monopoly on it.

walter said...

Yeah..Meade. Quite obviously. That IS it.
Doesn't explain Ann responding like she's writing for Jezebel.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Althouse doesn't care about brains or freedom;"

One of those moments where you recognize their desire to strike someone down is deemed worth sacrificing their honor and dignity.

I am Laslo.



rcocean said...

"Althouse doesn't care about brains or freedom;"

Or Truth, Justice, or the American Way!

Althouse = Right wing super-villain

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Professor Mark Kleiman has no reason whatsoever to think that I don't care that young men are suffering brain damage playing football.

Exactly so! Which is precisely why you say:

If you really hate brain damage, you might say, great.

Because that word "if" is really important. Some people are anti-brain damage, and some are pro. Both are perfectly legitimate, respectable positions. It's not as if Ann advocated for one of them or the other. But we must acknowledge both of them, with an "if." Clearly hating brain damage is not a human universal but there's no need to give Ms Althouse a hard time for merely acknowledging that diversity of human opinion on the matter of brain damage in her conditional statement.

Alex said...

NFL fans tune in to see guys get 'their bell rung'. That's the whole appeal and don't let anyone imply otherwise. It's 100% bloodsport at its core.

Bring back the ancient Roman gladiatorial games.

Feed Christians to the lions.

It's coming to that soon enough.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

If I knew who he was, I might be impressed.

Not content with a mere appeal to authority, Mr. K. invents an entirely new form of logical fallacy: The appeal to Michael K's pre-existing knowledge!

If Michael K didn't know about it beforehand then it's by definition not important and not worth knowing about.

Everybody remember to consult your own personal Michael K-bot before proceeding to debate or consider anything.

Laslo Spatula said...

Being that this started from a discussion of football, it is appropriate to take note of how the goalposts move.

Althouse's liberal stance was consistent with, say, the Eighties and Nineties.

Today, being pro-choice and feminist* isn't enough to be liberal. Somehow.

The goal posts are now on the thirty-yard line.

(*if Althouse disagrees with this characterization I apologize)

I am Laslo.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I will believe Professor Mark Kleiman cares about "free expression" when he stands up for the rights of conservatives on campus.

Conservatives have every right to spew the erroneous, unsupportable, illogical and hateful nonsense they so love.

But when what they say is erroneous, illogical and unsupportable, then I think it's right to question why it should belong on a college campus. I know conservatives hate such things as intellectual standards, but that's sort of the entire mission of a university.

As for the hateful things they say and believe, it's true that protecting against "emotional offense" shouldn't be a university's top priority. Or a workplace's priority.

But I don't think it's unfair for the hateful conservative speakers to be required to pay for their own security. And if enough security can't be found, then they can just spew their hate from a remote location, online. Technology, right!

mockturtle said...

Lots of heretic hunting and witch burning and intolerance to go around. The Catholic church had no monopoly on it.

Right you are, exiled!

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Policy advocate = need to keep grant funding especially if it is from public purse requiring virtue signaling do-goodism. Attacking somebody as right wing gets extra points.

Tari said...

Two related thoughts:

1. That man is an asshole
2. I admire you, Professor

Have a good week, all.

YoungHegelian said...

@TTR,

Conservatives have every right to spew the erroneous, unsupportable, illogical and hateful nonsense they so love.

Spoken by a man who never, ever read any of the classics of conservative political thought.

I'm sorry, but to say that about the Conservative political tradition, either in its European or American incarnations, is simply, well, stupid. And I would say the same thing to a conservative who said that about liberalism, social democracy, or even Marxism.

These are old & complex ideologies. That you don't like the conservative one & don't understand it is a reflection on you, not on it.

walter said...

Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
when what they say is erroneous, illogical and unsupportable.
--
And your ilk is best to determine that?
Hardly..

YoungHegelian said...

@"Luther was a nice guy as far as stubborn Germans go"

The almost 100,000 German peasants killed by the German nobility (who Luther supported) during the Peasant Revolt could not be reached for comment.

Laslo Spatula said...

I used to snort cocaine off the asses of hookers.

Though I no longer do that, I still believe in FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

Greg Hlatky said...


It must be sad to be a Revolutionary and realize that your mojo has vanished, that Toto has pulled away the curtain on the Great Oz to reveal the pathetic old man behind, that no one is intimidated by you any more, that your beliefs been revealed for a complete and utter disasters, that everyone beyond your tiny social bubble has stopped taking you seriously. No wonder the Left is so deranged.

chickelit said...

I just clicked on Althouse's Kleiman tag. The guy has a ridiculous obsession with publicly dissing Althouse. Enough that I wonder if he trolls here incognito.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"But when what they say is erroneous, illogical and unsupportable, then I think it's right to question why it should belong on a college campus."

If that were true there would no socialists on college campuses, since socialism is clearly erroneous, illogical and unsupportable.

You disagree? Fine. Have a debate. Prove that what, say, Ben Shapiro or Christina Hoff Sommers say is erroneous. Hoff Sommers is a Democrat who a critic of Third Wave feminism. The leftist response to her is not logic and reason, but screaming hissy fits, tears and safe spaces.

The truth is the Left is no longer capable of debate, so it wishes to silence and ban. What you do not wish to face is that if you expressed your own views on feminism on campus, you would be instantly lumped in with the right (as Hoff Sommers is) and would be threatened and bullied. Your views on that particular topic would be judged as "erroneous, illogical and unsupportable" and you would not be given a chance to argue otherwise.

You are not permitted to deviate from the One True Faith on campus, Ritmo. Many one-time revolutionaries during the Reign of Terror were awfully surprised when the blade came down on their necks because they dared to question one point of current Revolutionary dogma. You really should study the French Revolution, Ritmo. You not only don't understand conservatives - I don't think you understand your own side.

Laslo Spatula said...

A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down.

A spoonful of dog shit only gets the medicine down dog shit enthusiasts.

FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Professora ... You need to come up with verbal killshot for Kleiman type

walter said...

Just curious..any women here uncomfortable with the jump to a gender oriented response?
And BTW, giving oxygen and a gateway to hypocrisy accusation (feminism) might not be the best approach to what at its base is a garden-variety lib attack: "You don't caaare!"

buwaya said...

It was the Dominicans who were in charge of chasing down heretics, not Jesuits. Dominicans ran the Inquisition.
St. Dominic made his rep disputing and converting Albigensians.

The Jesuits were indeed specially tasked with important roles in the Reformation, but for the most part these were in seizing the cultural high ground in vulnerable countries by starting systems of formal higher education for the upper classes. A secondary role was providing well-qualified advisers (confessors) for the monarchs, as in the case of Wilhelm Lamormaini SJ, confessor to the Emperor Ferdinand II, and a favorite villain in Protestant propaganda.

Laslo Spatula said...

I love buwaya.

If I had his knowledge I probably wouldn't write so many ass jokes.

I am Laslo.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Spoken by a man who never, ever read any of the classics of conservative political thought.

They can all be summed up on a wrapper of Bazooka Joe chewing gum.

What interests me much moreso is the way the reactionaries calling themselves "conservatives" in America are opposed to empirical reality, especially insofar as it regards the only sensible way to inform public policy.

American conservative is an oxymoron anyway. The whole project of the founding was the most liberal, progressive, pro-Enlightenment undertaking in history, and we had no ethnic nationalism or similarly longstanding institution to which to appeal in its place. Americans calling themselves "conservatives" might instead appeal to other longstanding national institutions, but they seem more content to appeal to anger, ignorance, insurrection and aristocracy instead. I suppose those are institutions of a sort. Emotional institutions. Reflexes projecting out from a mind denuded of what could be properly called "conservative" in any other country.

When frogs die their legs still twitch. There is nothing conservative about this country and it drives reactionary Americans crazy in their reflexive search for something conservative by which to define it.

I'm sick of mincing words here. This is the basic psychological reality at play in our politics. Conservatism is an old world, esp. European thing, as the preponderance of your favorite political philosophers will attest. Let them have it.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

If that were true there would no socialists on college campuses, since socialism is clearly erroneous, illogical and unsupportable.

Nonsense. You only say this because your testosterone addiction probably leaves you to pretending, as your friends do, that Western Europe, Canada, Japan, South Korea and Israel don't exist and that they have somehow all been supplanted by Venezuela and the Soviet Union. There is room and need for both cooperation and competition in a society - the latter much more so in undeveloped countries. But without a basic social contract that respects something other than "wealth makes right," you are back to Weimar.

There's a reason why Western Europe instituted social democracies all across the board post-1945. To prevent more backsliding into fascism. And it worked marvelously at that, as far as anyone can tell. No wonder you hate it.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

The left was never capable of debate as nothing they had to offer was fact-based. They have always relied on guilt tripping their opponents.
This has been the tragedy of the West.

Sebastian said...

Could do without playing the woman card.

But I wish to demonstrate that I CARE, about logic, about Althouse, about the state of the Republic, about the abuse of the care card for prog purposes, about little kittens and NFL player brains, by stating publicly that Mark Kleiman is an asshole.

walter said...

Yes Toothless,
The founders would surely have been all in for so-called progressive "Medicare for all" and big bucks consuming sports protesters.

Laslo Spatula said...

Conservatism is about delaying communism as long as possible.

Sometimes I just write things and decide if I believe them later.

I am Laslo.

YoungHegelian said...

@TTR,

Conservatism is an old world, esp. European thing, as the preponderance of your favorite political philosophers will attest.

As is every aspect of American political thought! We are Europe's children. Do you think John Locke grew up in Providence, RI?

Do you tell your Lefty friends that Marxist & post-Marxist thought has no place here? That it's a European ideology for Europeans?

American conservative thought is, mostly but not completely, a variant of natural law/natural rights philosophy that goes back at least to Aristotle. It's antecedents are really not mysterious.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
Chuck, I read that editorial. Did you read the comments ?

Trump has a lot of support there.

I used to read the comments more, pre-Trump. I did read several pages of them for that editorial since you noted them.

Trump seems to have a good bit of vocal support. No doubt. Who could ever doubt that? I just prefer the people writing the editorials to the folks doing the online commenting.

There are thousands of such commenters in the right-wing blogosphere. Even never-Trumper Rich Lowry said today on Meet the Press that and issue like "Knee" versus "Stand" is an easy call in popular American polling. "Stand" will always be a winner. Trump will need to work at it (if he really works at anything), if he wants to snatch defeat from the jaws of that victory.

Again, my own position has always been; if Colin Kaepernick has a serious argument to make about alleged police brutality and racism, let's get him and Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute together for a debate. I don't want to dignify Kaepernick, but I'd sure prefer that to Trump blabbing about sons of bitches.

walter said...

But hey..your crazy extrapolations are more entertaining to me than football..

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

You are not permitted to deviate from the One True Faith on campus, Ritmo. Many one-time revolutionaries during the Reign of Terror were awfully surprised when the blade came down on their necks because they dared to question one point of current Revolutionary dogma. You really should study the French Revolution, Ritmo. You not only don't understand conservatives - I don't think you understand your own side.

PC sexualgenderrace identity politics are poisonous straightjackets that should be crushed. Too bad conservatives are too irrational to provide any safe medicine for accomplishing this.

The only antidote is replacing grievance identity politics with grievance socioeconomics politics. That's what happened in the 2016 election. But the right loves extremes of wealth and poverty too much to be useful in making that shift. They love hierarchies (organization and order!) and leveling out the wealth extremes that are at the root cause of our problems is something that they abhor. The conservative mind requires someone upon whom to look up to and someone upon to look down upon. They are opposed to reason and purpose as the driving force in the nation's politics and will have fits if the poor no longer starve or die of disease or if the billionaires are no longer allowed to write all the laws for their own benefit alone.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I've figured out more about your tribe than you know.

walter said...

But all of us should be concerned whether Ann and knee-jerk female supporters have emerged from behind the skirt O' grievance to soldier on to a new work week.

Laslo Spatula said...

"I've figured out more about your tribe than you know."

Laurence Tribe is a conservative?

I am Laslo.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

As is every aspect of American political thought! We are Europe's children. Do you think John Locke grew up in Providence, RI?

Case in point. Locke's ideas became the entire platform for the American founding. Ergo, liberal - primarily. Classically liberal but that's because socialism was a post-industrial phenomenon and America was not industrialized by 1790. But I'm glad you wait to take issue with the conclusion alone, rather than the meat of the comment.

Do you tell your Lefty friends that Marxist & post-Marxist thought has no place here? That it's a European ideology for Europeans?

Well, I think it's more necessary in Europe. They're more densely populated and have longer-standing aristocracies and power centers to mitigate. The Marxists take things a bit far, for my taste. But this is just another false debate. Even Adam Smith wrote favorably about most of the economic boundaries I advocate here.

American conservative thought is, mostly but not completely, a variant of natural law/natural rights philosophy that goes back at least to Aristotle. It's antecedents are really not mysterious.

Then bully for its antecedents. The founders took enough from what they needed of antiquity and the rest was based in the progressiveness of the enlightenment.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"They can all be summed up on a wrapper of Bazooka Joe chewing gum. "

Uh, huh. Burke, Babbit, Brownson, Hayek, Coleridge, T.S. Eliot, Chesterton, Solzhenitsyn, Sowell, Oakeshott, to name a few off the top of my head - ah yes, they were no match for the towering intellect of some guy who posts pissy comments at Althouse.

You dismiss them because you are completely ignorant of them and do not want your complacency and arrogance challenged. You're afraid of alien ideas. You fear they might just change your mind.

That's not an unreasonable fear. When I started reading conservative authors in the late '80's my mind was changed. You can't let that happen to you, Ritmo. That's too scary! Shun and ridicule those who are not of the Body!

Laslo Spatula said...

When I snorted cocaine off the asses of hookers I always insisted they take a shower first.

Then I would apply vanilla-scented lotion to their buttocks.

Because if you are going to snort cocaine off a hooker's ass it is best if it is a clean vanilla-scented ass.

FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

I once snorted cocaine off the ass of a sad hooker.

Turned out she had an abortion the day before.

FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

I never snorted cocaine off the ass of a dead hooker.

But during the meth binges there was some Crazy Shit.

FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Too bad conservatives are too irrational to provide any safe medicine for accomplishing this"

Well, then, it's up to you libs. You do it then. If the campuses are liberal stomping grounds than liberals ought to be able to challenge the prevailing dogma.

Are they? Or are they cravenly kissing the asses of the feminists and SJWs at every turn? Are they screeching about how Betsy deVos is pro-rape because she wants to end the campus Star Chambers which brand male students as rapists on the say so of any woman? Conservatives are the only ones speaking out against that.

Liberals are spineless cowards.

Laslo Spatula said...

I once snorted cocaine off the ass of a woman that I didn't know was a hooker.

I found out she was a hooker when I woke up and fifty dollars was missing from my wallet.

She probably preferred to think of herself as a thief, I imagine.

FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

walter said...

Laslo...been years, but within 10, cotton candy scent was all the rage.
Maybe strip clubs have "90's night" with appropriate, period specific olfactory stimulation..

Bad Lieutenant said...

If you really hate brain damage, you might say, great.

Because that word "if" is really important. Some people are anti-brain damage, and some are pro. Both are perfectly legitimate, respectable positions. It's not as if Ann advocated for one of them or the other. But we must acknowledge both of them, with an "if."

Ritmo, I'm confident you regard yourself as more intelligent and perceptive than most of your opponents on the blog. As such, you ought to understand that the word doing the work here is not "if" but "really."

Really either suggests that you may be being hypocritical or insincere, or it may refer to the degree or intensity of feeling. For instance, the professor is doubtless opposed to murder or to any death before one's time, but she is really opposed to suicide.

So when you cast it as you have, you make the whole argument a caricature of rational debate. (Nobody likes toxic waste either, per se. However, civilization at the level we have achieved probably could not be sustained without the generation of some toxic waste, so hooray for the products of the reactions that create computer chips and solar panels and keep us warm or cool as we see fit; that said, now you have to deal with it.)

As I said before, on another post, this news about football, if true, is apparently terrible. Do we then outlaw football? Do we make players wear three feet of Styrofoam padding? Do we do something to their shoes so that can't run so fast? Any opposition to any of those measures is easily cast as mean.

Also, if the controversy wasn't politically useful to Kleinman, would he really care about the injured players? Is his concern since here? Is his concern deep?

For the record, any interest I have in team sports is all about baseball, I care nothing for football, if I bother to look closely I appreciate the difficulty of the work that they do, but it generally doesn't hold much interest for me. As such, I feel it's not my thing, so I'm reluctant either to support or condemn it, inasmuch as my personal feelings are irrelevant or unhelpful.

I would say about brain damage that from my own perspective, my brain is one of the more remarkable features of my identity, so as Bugs Bunny said, I need what little I've got. On the other hand, I doubt that the NFL is depriving the Nobel committee of much material, but feel horrible about it happening to our servicemen. Yet a rhhardin or an Althouse might say they both asked for it, both are volunteer, both are paid.

Then again, if you feel too strongly, maybe you can't make hard choices or nice distinctions. Or make them badly. For instance, if you feel their suffering is bad enough, should we euthanize them?

buwaya said...

This idea that conservatism is a European thing is bizarre Ritmo. Conservatism is not a definable ideology. There are European conservatives but they are quite as diverse as the American sort. Really, there is a vast difference between Burke and de Maistre. Goodness, there is a vast difference between Unamuno and Ortega y Gassett. Throw in characters like Sabino Arana and you are talking the other side of a dimensional warp.

You cannot easily find a difference between Burke, say, and the gentlemen who founded the US. As in all such things, their ideas were not easily categorized. That is because conservatism requires an open mind and a distrust of categories.

The Europeans even had libertarians, or rather, this was a European movement that was frequently transplanted to the US in many flavors; a popular one in latter days in the US was
Bastiat (his book is extremely quotable), but of course such European fellows as Hayek, von Mises, Schumpeter et al are foundational for that strain in the US. And that strain in the US has been very influential in Europe, there are classes in this in Sciences Po.

You have to also consider the interplay between Europeans and Americans, which was constant. This is very messy.

As I said, I lead a horse to water, again. Start with Russell Kirk, he laid out the map very well.

I think you will not drink yet, but you know where you can. You will not drink today, but someday you will.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

When I started reading conservative authors in the late '80's my mind was changed.

Good for you. And thanks for proving what I become more convinced of every day: These American conservatives are losing power over the society that they gerrymander and bribe their way into ruling over as evidenced by the increased emotionality and irrelevance of their arguments. Your own mind was "blown." Wow, I'm impressed. What a point that makes.

The real point is that you conservatives are addicted to your own ideas because you can't make a decent case for how they are working for America in reality. You have all retreated like squirrels from any factual observations and evidence in arguing policy and elected a Chief Insulter and Inveterate Liar who talks out of both sides of his mouth to prove the point. All his campaign managers attest to this. Truth is ephemeral. If people believe it that's all that matters. Conservative atheists think religion is important for the people, just not for them. We are in a post-modern presidency. Listen to what Trump means, not what he says. Take him truthfully, not literally. Etc., etc., etc., garbage nonsense bullshit.

America needs more conservatism? Prove it. These are just things you tell yourself because it makes you feel justified and I guess powerful to believe them. You know they aren't working in reality. Graham-Cassidy take away healthcare pay off a billionaire with it has less than 20% support. You can't even debate the bill in public. Your congressional delegation has become a chimera, a facade, a cover. Look at all the dissonance and lies that encompass your will to power, in all its raw, naked, weak emotionality.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Conservatism is not a definable ideology.

American reactionaries sure think it is:

More guns = less government killing me.

More money for billionaires = less government doing some kind of undefinable oppression of me.

More religion = less government seducing the people with evil things like "logic" and "reason" and "common sense"

Less regulation = etc., etc., etc.

Paranoia over a government of by and for the people might not be much of an ideology but it certainly is the end-all-be-all of anything the reactionary reflexivists care about. No matter what its actually doing or not doing. They would sell their children if it made an emotional enough appeal against government in the abstract. For serious.

walter said...

"America needs more conservatism? Prove it."
Prove liberalism.

Laslo Spatula said...

There are few things sadder than watching a hooker desperately try to snort cocaine off her own ass.

Some strippers can do it, though. Flexible.

FREEDOM.

I am Laslo.

Kelly said...

Like Hillary saying woman who voted for Trump disrespected themselves. I will not be put into a group just because I share a vagina with someone. I won’t be shamed. I won’t be put into a box. How dare she. I didn’t want to vote for Trump and at times I’ve regretted it. Thank you Hillary, you old hag, for continuously reminding me why you should never have been President. How do blacks and Hispanics put up with this garbage. It insults me to be told How to vote. No. It enrages me.

Laslo Spatula said...

Child molesters hate reactionaries.

I am Laslo.

buwaya said...

Ritmo,

Its much worse than you think.
Its not simply that there is grievance this and that as student politics, but that this has eaten up academics nearly everywhere. The real plague is not bad politics but utter ignorance.

You cannot, simply can't, have this sort of discussion re the nature of political philosophy in a US university classroom, not merely because the students and instructors would object, but because they are even worse off than you are, knowing no history and reading no philosophy.

walter said...

I live just above Illinois in WI..where do you live?

exiledonmainstreet said...

"When frogs die their legs still twitch."

Which is why your Party is doing so swimmingly that even musty, dull Time magazine is worried about the future of the Democratic Party.

I repeat, if conservatism is dead, than why not let conservative speakers on campus? After all, nobody really cares what they say and if they have no worthy ideas certainly they can be easily refuted. Why the need to pepper spray and smash bike locks over the heads of people who wish to hear them? Why weep and scream and run to a safe space to console yourself with play-doh and puppies if Ann Coulter isn't worth listening to? Why not just ignore her?

Gee, it's almost like you're not really very confident in your own beliefs. Or have any faith in the ability of college kids to judge for themselves what is logical and what is not. They have to be protected from those scary,scary bad ideas!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"America needs more conservatism? Prove it."
Prove liberalism.


Why don't you win an election without gerrymandering first and then we'll talk about why it's so important for you to push through ideas that have 20% support of the American public max.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Child molesters hate reactionaries."

The last thing you want when you are balls-deep in a child is to be interrupted by someone with no empathy.

Okay: this will probably be deleted.

But it such a good line.

I am Laslo.

walter said...

AH..i.e. zero proof. Just a hope for mindless Dem support. Good luck!

Ken MacDonald said...

Not sure why Intsapundit still links to this harpy's bullshit. Women are immensely cruel and mean, far crueler and meaner than men, typically through subterfuge. You only spend time thinking about how to make others think you're nice to cover for what an underhanded bitch you are. That you are openly now a bitch doesn't make you a better person.

That little girl was good for not wanting to be mean. Having impulse control, resisting doing anything damaging is a GOOD thing.

buwaya said...

Europeans very often have less onerous regulatory regimes than does the US or large parts of it, more predictable, less whimsical, and more reasonable. Its much easier to manufacture in Germany than California.

This is not a POV often raised in public but its no secret in business. Does this mean that the US is more socialist than Europe? In many ways, yes it is.

exiledonmainstreet said...

' You will not drink today, but someday you will."

You have more faith in Ritmo than I do. He's incredibly close minded and fearful of new ideas. He will never challenge his own prejudices, will never study history, will never examine his own presumptions.

Even when I was an liberal, I was intellectually curious. He is not. He is comfortable with his own ignorance.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Which is why your Party is doing so swimmingly...

See? Just like I said. You are addicted to power and promote your hatred of democracy to prove it.

If Democrats had as much gerrymandering control over districts, as many PACs and "think tanks" funded as well to do this, they'd be the ones winning elections. As it stands, they're divided between corporatist Democrats who are essentially PC Republicans (and won more for your side under Clinton than any Republican ever did) and the actual left - which does not care for these things.

Like I said, give up the gerrymander, stop the voting suppression, and you'll see the actually popularly supported policies win out. But you are addicted, as with to your testosterone, to the idea that might makes right. The game is rigged, though. Everyone knows it except for you Trumpsters and his Republican hangers-on.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

He's incredibly close minded and fearful of new ideas.

I have no interest in irrational and empirically WRONG "ideas."

But I get it. You love testosterone and therefore aggression and fight is what you need.

Reason and fact is no match for a vial of hormone to inject into your ass and the ensuing rush of power it provides you with.

You aggressive reactionaries must feel pretty powerless in your own lives to have such a strong need to take power away from so many Americans. Tens of millions of people priced out of coverage, many thousands will die but what you care about is winning elections and paying tribute to billionaires. I'm so intrigued by whatever "ideas" caused you to believe in doing evil shit like that.

Laslo Spatula said...

"...and the actual left - which does not care for these things."

What nationally known Democrat would you consider 'actual left'?

Not being facetious -- just looking for context.

I am Laslo.

walter said...

Ah..20%? Pretty low, even in free speech world.
But..
Calculated by a SJW?

exiledonmainstreet said...

It's cute of ritmo to pretend only one party gerrymanders.

"It’s hard to believe Rep. John Sarbanes’ (D) district could get much worse than its present form. But Democrats drew a doozy for Sarbanes by moving parts of Montgomery County into the 3rd district. The district immediately drew comparisons to a Rorschach test for its splotchy shape. One local reporter said it took him nine hours to drive from end to end. So what’s the goal behind giving Sarbanes a district shaped like an amusement park ride? Sources speculate he wants to lay the groundwork for a Senate bid someday, and the pinwheel shape puts him in nearly all of the state’s key media markets."

"Democrats packed as many Hispanic voters as possible into Rep. Luis Gutierrez’s (D) redrawn seat. They created a supermajority Hispanic district that has attracted considerable unfavorable attention, both among the delegation and in court. A GOP lawsuit claims this district is illegal because there are enough Hispanic voters in the state for two majority-minority districts. Three black Democrats in the delegation expressed similar concerns."



The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I repeat, if conservatism is dead, than why not let conservative speakers on campus?

Because the brain-dead are never truly dead. Ever watch a Nuremberg fireside rally?

I saw Zombie Apocalypse AND the Republican Convention. And Charlottesville. As well as Trump's reaction to it.

Zombies can do a lot of damage. They eat brains and are undead.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Ah, but when Democrats gerrymander, well:

"It's OK when we do it."

Gahrie said...

Why don't you win an election without gerrymandering first and then we'll talk about why it's so important for you to push through ideas that have 20% support of the American public max.

Every Democratic minority member of Congress, except Kamala Harris was elected from a Gerrymandered safe seat.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Wow. Two districts. And which party is controlling the majority of these states and districts, you innumerate "ideas lover?"

Apparently Democrats made them do it. Like I said, being a Republican means never taking responsibility for anything.

Just watch all the things that manly Trump guy takes responsibility for.

There could be a nuclear war with North Korea tomorrow and he'll blame it on the NBC, his hairdresser, a Democrat and probably a comedian.

narciso said...

Not tommwbpntion John burtins gerymander of California in the 80s,

We can't avid liberal ideas 'we're soaking in them' meanwhile across the pod, le boi toi and fraunmerkel got a series if shocks

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Every Democratic minority member of Congress, except Kamala Harris was elected from a Gerrymandered safe seat.

The minority party benefits with safe seats in a gerrymandered system as well. Just with many less of them. Any idiotic asshole knows this. It becomes less competitive for both parties.

You people really are stupid.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Ever watch a Nuremberg fireside rally?"

OK, please provide quotes of notorious anti-Semite Ben Shapiro calling for the extermination of Jews.

How about one of Milo talking about how much he hates black people?

Really, if Shapiro and Milo and Charles Murray and Hoff Sommers and everyone else you crybabies have a stick in your prim little asses about is as bad as the Nazis then you ought to have a bushel basket full of quotes which show just how awful and hateful they are.

C'mon Ritmo. Provide evidence and proof , Miss Prissy Pants.

walter said...

No response to such a fundamental repsonse meadehouse?
This guy..as much of a liberal douche as he is, is not triggering..but maybe revealing a sort of centro-conserva-type bias..in terms of response.

narciso said...

Being that they covered up the miniaturized warheads since 2013. The Kim dynasty wee strongly enabled by the 99 deal negotiated by the same one behind the Iran deal.

walter said...

Ah..left out feminist..but wtf.

Jay Elink said...

"Althouse doesn't care about brains or freedom".

*********

I'm suspecting Kleiman's brain came from a jar labeled "Abby Normal".

Sally327 said...

I haven't read all of these comments so it's probably already been said but it's a really funny criticism to make of a constitutional law professor. She doesn't care about brains! Or free expression! Well maybe it's true now that she's retired. Althouse is officially done with brains. She used to care but not anymore!



The Toothless Revolutionary said...

OK, please provide quotes of notorious anti-Semite Ben Shapiro calling for the extermination of Jews.

That's not the point. Apparently in your lust for ideas you never managed to nail down the whole issue of how to be relevant.

He believes in the literal supernatural truth of bronze age texts. What more need be said? (Oh no, anti-semitism!)

He's not as stupid or inflexible as most of your right-wing paid yakkers. But his points are just as cheap as the rest of theirs.

He says what he says to live in the moment and to make an attack right then and there. But truth cares little for the immediacy of crowd reaction that keeps him and the rest of your clique so satisfied and excited.

exiledonmainstreet said...

What a little church lady you are Ritmo, except you worship at the church of Liberalism. So fearful of open debate! So frightened of opposing opinions! So scared of even considering another POV!

LOL. What a pussy.

Good night, frightened little pajama boy.



Jay Elink said...

"Tens of millions of people priced out of coverage"....

And when was THAT?

Before Obamacare, anyone could go to an ER and get treated, or see a doc if they were on Medicaid or Medicare.

You're complaining about health INSURANCE, not health CARE.

They are not the same!

And yes: for millions health INSURANCE is NOW outrageously expensive for many, but that's Because of Obamacare.

Achilles said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Like I said, give up the gerrymander, stop the voting suppression, and you'll see the actually popularly supported policies win out. But you are addicted, as with to your testosterone, to the idea that might makes right. The game is rigged, though. Everyone knows it except for you Trumpsters and his Republican hangers-on.

Actually I look forward to suppression of illegal voting. I look forward to illegal aliens who voted illegally getting deported. I look forward to 30 red states electing 60 senators and dominating the congress for a generation. I also look forward to the corporatist traitors like Flake getting primaried out.

I look forward to the NFL ratings and revenues cratering. I look forward to the billionaires cozying up with the progressive left trying to tear the fabric of our country apart losing a lot of money.

I look forward to defeating the progressives and their corporatist masters and media.

walter said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said... truth cares little for the immediacy of crowd reaction that keeps him and the rest of your clique so satisfied and excited
-
As the Left knows all too well.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

How about one of Milo talking about how much he hates black people?

I think the group that the irrelevancy you mention hates were young people. After all, he did seem to think it was ok for them to be statutorily raped by older pederasts. And it was your own conservatives who brought him down for that one. Like I said, the party/ideology of no responsibility.

Provide evidence and proof

You first. Like I said, you're the one from the side that can't deal in evidence. I have no problem doing so and have done so. You OTOH are just stuck in a perpetual conservative bitchfest for the purpose of saving face and not getting to any real point. Very emotional.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

So frightened of opposing opinions!

Hi there, dumb tummy twat. Like I said, I don't give much of a shit about opinions either way. They're just opinions, much like assholes. About which it seems you know much more.

What I care about are facts.

Good night, frightened little pajama boy.

So of course, you run away.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I look forward to defeating the progressives and their corporatist masters and media.

I'm so glad a guy who hates his own corporation named "Trump" is so credible at this. Especially given how little he cares for publicity and other things that the media make possible for him and his wounded ego.

walter said...

TR,
What is your position on illegal immigration?

buwaya said...

To complete the European-American "conservatism" thing, and to illustrate the complexity of pol itical philosophy, let us posit that the most important strain (in terms of policy impact) of academic conservatism in the US is that of Leo Strauss, who taught generations of US academics and officials. And who was a German Jew, from Prussia.

The sum of influences on Strauss is enormous, eclectic, he spoke with everyone of all strains of thought in his day. To define Leo Strauss would be quite a project.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"He believes in the literal supernatural truth of bronze age texts. What more need be said? (Oh no, anti-semitism!)"

So you believe Orthodox Jews and other religious people ought to be prevented from speaking on campus? Shapiro doesn't go to campus to teach Torah. And I daresay you wouldn't last long if you debated him:

"A native of Los Angeles, California, Shapiro graduated from Yeshiva University High School of Los Angeles at age 16, after skipping two grades. He graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the University of California, Los Angeles in 2004, at age 20, with a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science, and then cum laude from Harvard Law School in 2007."

Yep Sounds like a guy whose thoughts can be fit ontp a Bazooka Joe wrapper.

You pussy. You're scared of him.

Jay Elink said...

Ritmo snarled , about Shapiro:

"He believes in the literal supernatural truth of bronze age texts. What more need be said? (Oh no, anti-semitism!)"

...Oh yes, a religious test for holding opinion, not just for holding office. If that's your standard, please explain the religiosity of "scientific socialists" or the "warmunists".

"He's not as stupid or inflexible as most of your right-wing paid yakkers. But his points are just as cheap as the rest of theirs."

....sez he. without a shred of evidence, just cheap and worthless assertions.

"He says what he says to live in the moment and to make an attack right then and there. But truth cares little for the immediacy of crowd reaction that keeps him and the rest of your clique so satisfied and excited."

....sez he, who somehow knows Shapiro's inner workings, while adopting the ad hominem in a particularly witless manner, attacking both the speaker and his audience.

As Khan on "King of the Hill used to say: "your ass is GENIUS!"

Snort!

exiledonmainstreet said...

You're a scared little pussy Ritmo. Frightened of people who don't think like you. Scared of ideas!

80 year old grandmas who sing in the choir of the First Baptist church of Des Moines are more open-minded and braver than you.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

And I daresay you wouldn't last long if you debated him.

Right. He'll make a cheap, transient point that will be shown later to have been nonsense that just sounded exciting to say int he moment.

A native of Los Angeles, California, Shapiro graduated from Yeshiva University High School of Los Angeles at age 16, after skipping two grades. He graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the University of California, Los Angeles in 2004, at age 20, with a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science, and then cum laude from Harvard Law School in 2007.

Like most of your Masters of the Universe. So now you believe in elitism. I see now why you want America run by Goldman Sachs and Exxon Mobil. They know everything.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Frightened of people who don't think like you.

People who are afraid of facts aren't really capable of thought.

Stop drinking. I realize I burned your droopy old lady ass pretty bad in the first brain damage thread. You are not recovering your reputation here, though. Just proving that you think you are too good for facts.

Which just makes you look more like a cunt.

Keep getting emotional and keep going on about the supposed power of opinions. Yeay! Opinions. (Everybody's got one).

Your opinions sound about as interesting as the average bus driver's.

walter said...

Yeah well..while others seek to transform this post into irrelevance, some want the hostess to address the seeming knee jerk feminista response..

exiledonmainstreet said...

"After all, he did seem to think it was ok for them to be statutorily raped by older pederasts. "


Actually, that isn't what he said, but you do lie. And it's no surprise that the corrupt status quo GOP Establishment line up against him and for Establishment leftist to approve of the attacks. Peas in a pod.

The "toothless revolutionary" - fighting tooth and nail to preserve the status quo and The Way Things Are! We don't want anybody challenging us! Shut up and go away and don't bother our little liberal cocoons - we're so self-satisfied and smug!

buwaya said...

My kids graduated from the UCs too, one from UCLA, like Shapiro. This is, or was, a decent university, but not really a masters of the universe school.

Harvard Law is, but most who come out of that are Democrats.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

some want the hostess to address the seeming knee jerk feminista response..

sexiled on mainstreet wants to transform it into her masculista response. (with a jerking knee)

walter said...

TR's against bus drivers.
That's so tidily non-race-specfic...(maybe..stay tuned)

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

And it's no surprise that the corrupt status quo GOP Establishment line up against him -

Oh, so now they're "corrupt?" I thought they were just defending your other pet project, traditional religion and traditional values.

Make up your mind, you schizophrenic.

Maybe having sex with young boys is a traditional value in the RCC, but in AMERICAN culture it's not.

exiledonmainstreet said...


"Like most of your Masters of the Universe. So now you believe in elitism."

Nope. Just saying Shapiro fully meets the credentials you liberal elitists believe are important.

Goldman Sachs loved Obama. Again, its so cute of you to pretend corporate America isn't liberal.

Just a cover to hide your own great, wimpy fear of opposing opinions.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

We don't want anybody challenging us!

You're not just anybody. You're a fucking zombie. Your last ripple of comment diarrhea, however many dozens of comments, were watery and fact-free.

Yes, you're pissed off about how I burned you in the last thread. I can repost those comments here, if you're feeling masochistic enough. You really can't seem to get enough tonight.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Just saying Shapiro fully meets the credentials you liberal elitists believe are important.

Irrational and thoughtless are not credentials I find to be important.

You're confusing yourself with me.

Achilles said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
I look forward to defeating the progressives and their corporatist masters and media.

I'm so glad a guy who hates his own corporation named "Trump" is so credible at this. Especially given how little he cares for publicity and other things that the media make possible for him and his wounded ego.

You are either choosing to be stupid or you are stupid. All of the big money is going to democrats and republicans who support the corporatist swamp that Trump is fighting.

The billionaire NFL owners and their sponsors sided with the people who hate this country, freedom, police etc. You people. I look forward to their humiliation for choosing poorly.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Hahaha! I call you a pussy, so you counter with "you're masculine."

How clever. How original.

Nope, That's the pink haired left wing feminista dykes on campus, who would cut your tiny little balls off in a second and wear them as a necklace.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

All of the big money is going to democrats and republicans who support the corporatist swamp that Trump is fighting.

The billionaire NFL owners and their sponsors sided with the people who hate this country, freedom, police etc.


NFL. LOL! Ok, you go girl. Yep, it's really the NFL that's holding this country back. They're like in cahoots with the Illuminati etc.

Police guaranteeing freedom. That's funny.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Hahaha! I call you a pussy, so you counter with "you're masculine."

How clever. How original.

Nope, That's the pink haired left wing feminista dykes on campus, who would cut your tiny little balls off in a second and wear them as a necklace.


Check out all the "facts," in this one, folks.

Ok, that's it.

buwaya said...

One thing for sure about US universities, is that the eclectic intellectual world in which Leo Strauss developed, for instance, does not exist in those places anymore. The wide-ranging friendships, correspondence and debates with left and right, mining things from Nietzche and Hegel and Heidegger (and more than a bit, I think, from Spengler), while also from Aron and Laski, etc., is not there.

There is apparently a rigid uniformity of thought, and moreso a code of noncommunication and nonfraternization with anyone out of the club.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I think a brain-damaged former athlete would be the ideal male "companion" (john, in her case) for sexiled. Think about it, he'll have more of the materialistic money she craves, and will be a vegetable by the time he's her age. (Brain damage is "fun!" Intelligent conversation sucks! - it intimidates her) She can hook up an IV to him and suck the "T" out of his veins that she so craves. I think if any hospitals in the Madison regional area have a neuro-ICU she should do the rounds, look out for a burly guy who didn't wear a helmet on his motorcycle, or any of the other MVA or sports accident victims, and work her "magic" on them. Of course, it's far from certain how well her pear-shaped powers of seduction work - assuming they ever did. But I think it's got to be the best strategy for a black widow like her to get what she so wants.

I will alert the Wisconsin hospitals and they can be on the lookout for a scary old bitch in thin black polyester preying on the traumatically brain-damaged big guys recuperating in their wards. Flopping around from one hospital bed to the next. LOL!

exiledonmainstreet said...

And I doubt that, with all your bitching about feminism, that you would have the guts to face even those pathetic pink haired left wing feminista dykes on campus.

Only conservatives have the guts to do that. You are awfully brave about complaining about them on Althouse though. In the meantime, the conservative speakers show up on campus and tell them they're full of shit.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Only conservatives have the guts to do that.

Guts?

I think you meant to say "eardrum masochism," and "time-wasting skills."

In the meantime, the conservative speakers show up on campus and tell them they're full of shit.

What intellectual firepower. Debate that intelligent has not been seen since Plato.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I can see why sexiled is such a vocal opponent of feminism. With her every comment, she proves just how shrill and irrational and in need of male supervision a woman like her can be.

exiledonmainstreet said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
I think a brain-damaged former athlete would be the ideal male "companion."

Except I'm boycotting the NFL because I think their protests are bullshit. So I don't know where you get the idea that I worship athletes. Because I generally like sports? Again, you hate anything you don't understand. Plus, a jock gave you a wedgie at some point and you're bitter.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your comment. When Ritmo starts off stupid, you know the rest of the comment only going to descend into complete imbecility, so why waste time?

Good night, sad, fearful, bitter little boy.

GoodPerson_VeryFlawed said...

Awewsome pulling of the gal card.

I guess that Althouse is gonin' w/ the if ya can't beat em' join em' POV re liberals trying to use guilt and their own oppression to shut someone up.

Cool!

GoodPerson_VeryFlawed said...

'That mean man is picking on a little girl.'

Bad Lieutenant said...


"He believes in the literal supernatural truth of bronze age texts. What more need be said? (Oh no, anti-semitism!)"

I don't suspect you of anti-semitism, Ritmo, but if I had any skepticism about the literal supernatural truth of (my) Bronze Age texts, fresh in my mind from Tifereth Israel in Friday morning, I would not admit it in the company of someone who made such a remark to me.

It's funny how people think you can pit Jew against Jew, Good Jew vs. Bad Jew, and perhaps you can, but not this little black duck, thank you. Let them wear their funny hats, I don't want to hear it.

Not that you should refrain from saying anything that you really believe.

GoodPerson_VeryFlawed said...

'I'm a girl, don't you Tweet mean to me!'

GoodPerson_VeryFlawed said...

'Girl girl girl girl girl'

Althosue wins the argument.

antiphone said...

it's no surprise that the corrupt status quo GOP Establishment line up against him...

Come next election, I strongly suspect all the born again MAGA Trump rebels will vote for whatever GOP Establishment suit has an R next to their name and a flag pin on the lapel. That's because I'm so old I remember when 911 CHANGED EVERYTHING!

Ralph L said...

Althouse loves brains.
She's a zombie.

Yancey Ward said...

I was going to write a comment, but the very first comment did it far, far better than I could have done, so I will just refer people to the comment at the top of the thread.

Bruce Hayden said...

"This affects men and women a little differently but each effectively. Women, of course, need to be seen as caring and compassionate. It's a required box on the human female card. Men are manipulated because we are assumed to be hard and heartless, and constantly need to prove otherwise or we are deemed dangerous. We need that box checked to be safe to love. Women need it to be true women. It's all pretty mean stuff we do to each other."

I must have mussed something because I didn't realize that this discussion was still about the faux racism of the millionaire NFL players kneeling for the National Anthem. I was more intrigued by the little girl's comment about not being mean. Yes, not being mean is good, and overall meanness verges on sinfulness. But what the girl maybe didn't quite get yet is that females are often, and arguably tend to be, meaner than males. They just do it more subtly, under the table. They just aren't supposed to be outwardly mean. My theory is that this is because males are naturally hierarchical, and male aggression is often turned off when dealing with inferiors who know their place in the make hierarchy. That is because male aggression is expensive, in terms of resources. Females, on the other hand, don't typically have strong hierarchies, and, thus, have to constantly strive to maintain their positions in female society. A lot of this is done by othering, and that often involves, at some level, being mean. And female aggression is often much cheaper, in terms of resources. The recipients of their meanness may have their feelings hurt, but are much less likely to end up in the hospital, or even dead.

I will admit to biases here - the women I have been with for at least the last 30 years tend to not like most women, on general principles. They were repeatedly bullied when younger, inevitably by being "othered". Much of the female conversation they despise revolves around gossip about other people, often a bit mean. What I would say to this young girl is that if she wants to survive in "girl world", in female society, and retain her niceness, she needs to be selective about the friends she makes, be true to them, not gossip about them or anyone else, and eliminate friends who don't have those same values. It can be done - it just isn't easy, esp in middle school and high school.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jcr said...

I'm a hard-line Libertarian, I'm not a sportsball fan of any kind, and I don't believe the government has any moral prerogative to stop people from offing themselves in any way they choose, whether it's slowly with tobacco, quickly by jumping off of cliffs, or painfully like beating their brains out against other people in a consensual melee for which they're being paid absurd amounts of money.

What's more, I've been rejecting all attempts at guilt-peddling tossed my way for at least three decades now, so if someone accuses me of not caring whether someone commits suicide slowly and painfully, I tell them to fuck off.

-jcr

rhhardin said...

Vicki Hearne analyzes the women have to be nice problem

http://rhhardin.home.mindspring.com/vickihearne.feminism.txt

counting it as a force trying to stop her writing.

rhhardin said...

Nobody thinks I'm uncaring except national anthem pussies.

rhhardin said...

Thurber talks somewhere about the battle against stupidity and oppression, which was his goal.

damikesc said...

What I dont get is I know plenty of women more than willing to be mean.

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