August 19, 2017

If "the Trump presidency that we fought for, and won, is over" — as Bannon says — then who is this Trump-minus-Bannon we've got now?

The quote comes from The Weekly Standard:
“The Trump presidency that we fought for, and won, is over,” Bannon said.... “We still have a huge movement, and we will make something of this Trump presidency. But that presidency is over. It’ll be something else. And there’ll be all kinds of fights, and there’ll be good days and bad days, but that presidency is over.”
The "we" in Bannon's quote is a subset of the people who voted for Trump. Clearly, Trump won the Electoral College, which is our system. He won the game according to our rules, but his opponent got more votes and something like 40% of the eligible voters abstained for one reason or another. But even if you look only at the — what is it? — 26% of the people who voted for Trump, only some unknown fraction of that were people who fit Bannon's "we," people who want whatever Trump-minus-Bannon is not.
Among the senior advisers competing with Bannon in trying to shape Trump’s agenda, and his tone, were the president’s daughter, Ivanka, and son-in-law, Jared. Bannon pointedly voiced criticism of those in the president’s sphere whom he considered to be globalists, or liberals (or both), and the president himself plainly bristled over the early attention that Bannon got from the press (including a Time magazine cover, which is said to have particularly irked Trump).
Yes, some of the people who voted for Trump want something more moderate, something represented by Jared and Ivanka, the Trump who said things like:
“Ask yourself who is really the friend of women and the L.G.B.T. community, Donald Trump with actions or Hillary Clinton with her words? I will tell you who the better friend is, and someday I believe that will be proven out, big-league.”
The big league is a strange place. You never know what you're getting when you vote for a President. Some people who voted for Trump were saying he didn't really mean those harsher things he said. Voters hear what they want to hear or hear and hope for the best or just loathe both candidates and join the 40% who abstained or pick somebody because they're more afraid the other person. I was in that last category, and while I have never revealed which of the 2 candidates I voted for in spite of disliking both of them — I voted for the one I disliked more! — there's no way I'm in Bannon's "we."

Bannon deserves to feel great pride that he got Trump over the line. He's entitled to think of himself as the without-which-nothing of Trump's presidency. But the intensely excited subset of Trump supporters don't deserve to get everything they want. Trump is the President of all of us, even those who didn't vote or who are not eligible to vote or who voted for Hillary Clinton or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein. The people outside of Bannon's "we" are the vast majority of Americans and include millions of people who voted for Trump and would like to vote for him again in 2020.
“Now, it’s gonna be Trump,” Bannon said. “The path forward on things like economic nationalism and immigration, and his ability to kind of move freely . . . I just think his ability to get anything done—particularly the bigger things, like the wall, the bigger, broader things that we fought for, it’s just gonna be that much harder."...

“I think they’re going to try to moderate him,” he says. “I think he’ll sign a clean debt ceiling, I think you’ll see all this stuff. His natural tendency—and I think you saw it this week on Charlottesville—his actual default position is the position of his base, the position that got him elected. I think you’re going to see a lot of constraints on that. I think it’ll be much more conventional.”
But the vast majority of Americans — 80? 90? 95%? — want something more conventional! Convention is tradition. Trump said "Make America Great Again," invoking the past, tradition, and there is a longing for stability and recognizable values and principles and inclusiveness.
“I feel jacked up,” he says. “Now I’m free. I’ve got my hands back on my weapons. Someone said, ‘it’s Bannon the Barbarian.’ I am definitely going to crush the opposition. There’s no doubt. I built a f***ing machine at Breitbart. And now I’m about to go back, knowing what I know, and we’re about to rev that machine up. And rev it up we will do.”
Great! Get out there where you belong. Speaking freely, speaking directly to us, out there where we can see you and where you don't have your hands on political power.

142 comments:

Tank said...

LOL. Very Althouse. Not very Tank.

David Begley said...

So Steve's call to action is to read his website? The Trump campaign was all about clicks?

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

the without-which-nothing

Je ne sais quoi, in the original Latin.

AReasonableMan said...

Bannon did bring something unique to the table, he spoke of the decline of US manufacturing and how this was killing the US heartland and ultimately the US economy and its ability to maintain a hegemon. The Democrats and the GOPe are incapable of acknowledging this because it raises awkward questions about their oligarch backers.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"Trump is the President of all of us"

Ann, that says a lot about where you are on the political spectrum. Conservatives, or at least anyone the tiniest bit right of center, are always required to say that. Somehow the left doesn't have the same requirement.

rhhardin said...

Bannon fodder.

sykes.1 said...

In every American election, the winner is elected by a minority of eligible voters. E.g., De Blasio was elected Mayor of NYC by 17% of the eligible voters. This is a consequence of the fact that only a bare majority of eligible voters ever vote. In by-elections and off-year election issues like school bonds often get only 10% to 20% turnout. In the justly infamous and notoriously corrupt New England town meetings, all decisions were made by a couple of hundred people who bother to show up. Such meetings are blatantly anti-democratic (which might be a good thing).

rhhardin said...

Doing away with leftist moral touchstones, which is to say PC, is the point of electing Trump.

Women tend to differ. It's a miswiring.

rhhardin said...

The wall is doing away with one moral touchstone, other cultures are good for America.

The battle isn't for the wall but for the idea.

Browndog said...

There are many conservative voices out there trying to convince everyone, yet again, that Trump is really a moderate, doesn't believe what he says, and said what he said just to get elected.

Good luck with that one....again.

David Begley said...

1. Bannon was the victim of one of the greatest smear campaigns of all time. A guy who worked at Goldman Sachs and graduated from Harvard was turned into Hitler.

2. Trump's biggest problems: He's inarticulate, not likable and not a politician.

Hagar said...

The wives of the NM congressional delegation have just resigned from some presidential arts commission with a letter also telling Trump he is a national disgrace and should reign forthwith.

How do you compromise with twelve year olds?

rhhardin said...

The Trump presidency was over when McCain decided it was.

Hagar said...

"I cannot spare this man; he fights."

rhhardin said...

Put corporate chieftans on the presidental arts council, and wives on the business council. It's just a matter of finding the right match.

Brookzene said...

1. Bannon was the victim of one of the greatest smear campaigns of all time. A guy who worked at Goldman Sachs and graduated from Harvard was turned into Hitler.

Not Hitler but everyone can Breitbart. It's not in a secret code.

Fernandinande said...

"We still have a huge movement, and we will make something of this Trump presidency. But that presidency is over."

That doesn't make much sense.

"It’ll be something else."

"Over" is melodrama-talk for "different".

Kevin said...

But even if you look only at the — what is it? — 26% of the people who voted for Trump, only some unknown fraction of that were people who fit Bannon's "we," people who want whatever Trump-minus-Bannon is not.

Might those not be the very people who provided the margin of his victory? Don't those people have a right to be disappointed?

To support Trump is not to pick the preferred of two candidates and go about your business. To support Trump is to subject yourself to the media and the perpetually-outraged left raging on about him on a daily, if not hourly, basis.

To support Trump this week required being called a Nazi racist. Your blog is a reflection of that.

And that cost does not go away should he move away from your preferred positions and back toward those of the global elite. The howls will not cease, they will only intensify over the course of his first term. Your need to listen and respond does not end when his policy positions are "smoothed" and "refined" away from what made you "come out" in support of him to your family and friends.

We should not dismiss the concerns of Bannon's "we", because Trump's promise was to MAGA by representing all Americans - particularly those who have no one representing them in the current government. Hillary's voters are well-supported, often by people calling themselves Republicans. The citizens who failed to vote may or may not believe they're represented. But Bannon's "we" was clearly outside the Beltway. There is no Senator X or Congresswoman Y who is their voice. It is not Jarred, nor Ivanka.

It's now up to The Donald, and only The Donald, to represent their interests. They can only hope he is up to that very difficult job.

Hagar said...

It is not so much Trump they hate as it is us - especially those who voted for him.

rhhardin said...

Nil nazi bonum.

Breezy said...

What exactly is this "something different"? What's on that whiteboard now?

rhhardin said...

Whiteboards for public parks. Instead of statues.

Hagar said...

We voted for Trump and rejected them; it is not to be borne!

Darrell said...

Trump took om Bannon's views during the election campaign as he learned just how dishonest the Media has been for the pat several decades. Trump started to question everything, and learned of people and sources he could trust. He now knows that's not the NYT or WaPo--or CNN. There will be no difference in Trump's actions. He can still consult those he trusts, as well as his own opinions.

Darrell said...

The shit opinions coming out of the Media now are the same shit opinions that told you that Hillary was going to win in a landslide and that Russia hijacked the election. Don't believe any of it.

Michael K said...

Bannon was the source of a lot of what elected Trump.

The argument about China manipulating its currency. was one big part.

Another was Muslim immigration.

The generals are good on foreign policy but the economy has to get going if we are to afford rebuilding the Obama ravaged military,

Oso Negro said...

A great majority of Americans don't want a lot of the bullshit the government shovels at us. But we get it anyway. Forgive me for not rejoicing at the departure of a guy who was interested in reversing some of that.

AllenS said...

As long as Trump has his Twitter machine, he doesn't need anyone else. Get Tweeting, Trump!

Oso Negro said...

Blogger rhhardin said...
Whiteboards for public parks. Instead of statues.

8/19/17, 8:18 AM


Whiteboards? Racism! Straight up!

Brookzene said...

What's on that whiteboard now?

Fantasy football.

iowan2 said...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/08/19/police-officer-killed-injured-shootings-florida/CDb02DBsclm7IjkLZIMxoN/story.html

6 police officers shot overnight.

Brookzene said...

Forgive me for not rejoicing at the departure of a guy who was interested in reversing some of that.

Feel free to punch them out.

CStanley said...

Another excellent post.

The way I would put it, much less interesting to read but maybe getting points for concision, is that Brannon's idea of governance was never going to work because it had a mandate from a small percentage of the population and refused to build alliances with any other coalition.

Oso Negro said...

@ Brookzene - I do not want to punch anyone! I don't want another American civil war. I don't want to shoot my family or friends who think differently than I do. I keep hoping that some of what I don't like may be reversed by the political process. So far, it hasn't been.

David Begley said...

Now that Bannon is gone, who replaces him? No one or maybe Jared.

Now that Bannon is gone, what's next? Free speech rally in Boston.

My predictions. Major violence. The police do nothing. Lots of video. Trump is immediately condemned for not denouncing the Nazis or for dog whistling. Outrage. Trump makes a second statement questioning the inaction by Boston police and the Dem mayor of Boston. Media blows up. Accuses Trump of attacking the police and not supporting them. More vandalism against monuments.

This type of stuff will repeat until the Norks launch. The Trump presidency has been caught in the chaos narrative. Without Bannon there, Trump will be left to his own instincts and he will only feed his opponents with material. Can I say tarbaby?

Let's see how accurate I am on Monday.

Earnest Prole said...

Bannon is probably right that the Trump presidency he fought for and won is over, but it was Bannon's own strategic incompetence in things like rolling out the travel ban that doomed it.

Phil 3:14 said...

"Trump's biggest problems: He's inarticulate, not likable and not a politician."

Other than that he's great.

The Godfather said...

You know the fable of Chanticleer the Rooster? He thought his crowing made the sun rise.

Otto said...

Boys I told you a long time ago the A squared voted for Jill Stein. A jersey princess can't fool a Bronxite. Also underneath all that fisking, she is really concerned about power and not only political. Feminism is only a phony strawman.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

In other news, Hillary still lost, and the white left are still melting down.

Brookzene said...

In other news, Hillary still lost

"So now what since Ban..."
"HILLARY'S E-MAILS!!!"


Brookzene said...

@ Brookzene - I do not want to punch anyone! I don't want another American civil war. I don't want to shoot my family or friends who think differently than I do. I keep hoping that some of what I don't like may be reversed by the political process. So far, it hasn't been.

All right, everyone deserves a second chance with me. Remember that now and then when someone says something completely stupid on my side! Peace.

David Begley said...

The New England Holocaust Memorial will be attacked. It will be unclear who the attackers were. Described here, "Designed by architect Stanley Saitowitz, a row of six 54-foot-tall glass towers hauntingly evoke the smokestacks of the six main Nazi concentration camps in Poland."

gg6 said...

Bannon strikes me as a very smart, energetic and accomplished guy who the MEDIA turned into one of their usual Japanese movie monsters. Just another of their memes intended to damage and thwart the dreaded Trump.
As to Bannon's use of the word "we", I think you make much ado about nothing. It strikes me as a simple Psych 101 symptom where the user aggrandizes him/herself by turning "I" into "we". I think the proper response to this is "Oh, yeah, right, "we" - you and your trick pony?"

Blair said...

I expected that Trump would barely be able to run a bath, let alone the country. I didn't expect he'd have trouble running his own office.

Banning is right to a degree - people voted for a clown, expecting a clown, but he's not even being a very competent clown.

I've gone from laughing at the Left over their pathetic attempt to nail him over Russia, to hoping they can find something, ANYTHING, no matter how slender, with which we can hang an impeachment on, so that Pence can come in and tidy up this mess.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Brook

Bannon! Aren't you white leftists happy?

Hillary's private server for personal enrichment, 30,000 deleted emails, and bleachbit..

We never got an answer - or what happened to Seth Rich. So - white left onto the civil war, lies and lies that get police officers killed.

harrogate said...

Seth Rich reference and so early in the thread! That's gotta be worth at least 50 points.


"But her emails" is passé, tho.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Every time a cop gets shot - Rachel Maddow, CNN, Obama and the rest of the liar left are to blame.

"hands up don't shoot" never happened. The left need a race war because they are Socialist failures.

Iowan 2 - thanks for the link.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/08/19/police-officer-killed-injured-shootings-florida/CDb02DBsclm7IjkLZIMxoN/story.html

Michael K said...

"This type of stuff will repeat until the Norks launch. The Trump presidency has been caught in the chaos narrative. "

I partly agree.

Bannon gave Trump an anchor in philosophy and he now lacks one.

The kids are mostly New York lefties although not anti-business like most of them. Social stuff, which Trump kind of supports, too.

The Norks are cowed.

The chaos will continue but will alienate the public. The smarter Democrats will start to see the disaster looming and will try to back off.

How that works out, I don't know.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Harrogate - You're no curious what why a DNC staffer was murdered?

no - BANNON!

mccullough said...

Bannon has a delusional sense of his own importance, which is why Trump fired him.

harrogate said...

Maybe it had something to do with Pizzagate?


Mike Sylwester said...

I'm not worried.

If the economy develops well from now until 2020 and if the Rust Belt voters perceive that Trump is doing as much as possible to restore the economy of the Rust Belt states, then President Trump will be re-elected in 2020.

During his eight years in office, President Trump will issue many executive orders, sign many laws and appoint many federal judges.

During that time, Trump will develop an excellent staff and cabinet and will decide on a course of governance.

People already are becoming well accustomed to Trump's funny antics and to the MSM's hysterical hatred.

rhhardin said...

The travel ban wasn't premature, it just didn't anticipate federal judges acting so far outside their charter.

It turns out the judiciary is part of the leftist wasteland.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

harrogate - you do realize Seth Rich was gunned down. It actually happened. He was murdered, and nothing was taken, except a thumb drive.

wildswan said...

There's a part of me that grew up in DC - my inner Mitch McConnell. This part thinks that McConnell probably thinks that big items like reversing Obamacare must have Democratic support. There's part of me which was converted to conservative Republican positions (other than abortion) by watching Paul Ryan videos (before there was a Tea Party) - my inner Paul Ryan. There's a part of me that was converted to Donald Trump by understanding the economic dilemmas of the Midwest, by viewing American decline as partially caused by government policies and trade deals and by observing that it is impossible to make leftys look at the fact that abortion/contraception are wiping out the blacks in this country while immigration is creating joblessness and despair in that same group. The only person who really faces the problem of America's changing position in a changing world is Trump. Others who don't want to support him also deny the need for change. If you see the need for change, you see the need for Trump.

But how should Trump deal with those who see no need for change, asks my inner McConnell? And perhaps Trump has several inner voices from several pasts. For instance, the Trump who hung out with the Clintons and Joe Scarborough may sense that the Hillary driven resistance is losing steam, no matter the headlines. Trump-the-builder may realize that the economy is getting stronger in the ways that will make America great again, regardless of recessions. Trump's inner Bannon may be pointing out that Virginia has announced that it will never offer incentives to win back manufacturing which dooms its citizens to service jobs unless they work for SWAMP. The inner Trump-himself (who is far smarter than SWAMP can acknowledge) is adding this all up - How? Not as Bannon would have done, that is clear - but How?

My take:
"We still have fun/ And you're still the one." So to speak.

rhhardin said...

Richard Epstein is beside himself anti-Trump (podcast) on Charlottesville.

It shows how areas of expertise can be limited. The smartest guy in the room to the dumbest.

Big Mike said...

Folks like Blair spent too much time reading newspapers written by drooling and slobbering members of the left wing lunatic fringe. Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama allowed North Korea to build nuclear weapons, which Kim Jong-un announced he planned to use them on American citizens on Guam. Trump got him publicly to back down. Yeah he's a clown. The New York Times says so.

Sebastian said...

"But the vast majority of Americans — 80? 90? 95%? — want something more conventional!" Right. They conventionally want their money, their SS, their SSI, their Medicaid, their Medicare, their ag subsidies, their green subsidies, their Tesla car subsidies, their veteran payments and VA subsidies, their Ocare subsidies, their research money and their overhead, their student loans and forgiveness of student loans, and bailouts for pension plans. Follow the money.

"Convention is tradition." Right. What tradition, exactly? Like SCOTUS mandating SSM, the US allowing millions of illegals with impunity, O making a deal with Iran and sending them billions, and everyone borrowing what -- a trillion here, a trillion there?

"Trump said "Make America Great Again," invoking the past, tradition, and there is a longing for stability and recognizable values and principles and inclusiveness." There is a longing, sure. But this is America, sorry.

Michael K said...

The travel ban wasn't premature, it just didn't anticipate federal judges acting so far outside their charter.

Agreed. If we have a Barcelona, the Democrats will be running for cover.

Rusty said...

Blogger David Begley said...
"1. Bannon was the victim of one of the greatest smear campaigns of all time. A guy who worked at Goldman Sachs and graduated from Harvard was turned into Hitler.

2. Trump's biggest problems: He's inarticulate, not likable and not a politician."


I don't see them as problems. The people that voted for him understood what he had to say. I find him very likeable. And the fact he's not a politician is a huge plus. The professional political class has nearly sunk this country.

David said...

Bravo. The rigid idealogs on either side (dare I say that?) are a big part of the problem. That and the behind the scenes political killers. Bannon wanted to be one but he has run out of ammo in that role.

CStanley said...

If you see the need for change, you see the need for Trump.

But herein lies the problem. The one person willing to stand up and take all the incoming fire that happens with the call for change doesn't appear to be competent at actually making change,

But how should Trump deal with those who see no need for change...
This part IMO is a fundamentally wrong question. Lots of people see the need for change but they do not seek change in the same direction.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

"I voted for the one I disliked more!" Another tell that Althouse voted for Hillary Clinton. Thanks.

Brookzene said...

We will likely have a Barcelona and worse. It won't be because jihadists sent murderers into our country in disguise as worn refugees. They send those ideas simply through the internet these days - to anyone who wants to nurse a grievance with violence.

Ralph L said...

I finally figured out "circling the square"

The square is tasteless Queens white guy Trump. The article is about the hip PoC who circled around him (because he was also a celebrity) before he was a candidate.

Ralph L said...

Another tell that Althouse voted for Hillary Clinton
I had the opposite reaction. Guess she's doing her job keeping "many sides" engaged here.

Big Mike said...

@Left Bank, I don't think so, because after she voted Prof. Althouse wrote that she didn't believe her candidate would win. Living in deep blue Madison and assiduously reading the Times and the Post, I think she would have expected Hillary to win.

PS: on my visits to MIT I concluded that both banks of the Charles are left.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

out there where we can see you and where you don't have your hands on political power.

On the contrary, now Bannon will have his hands on political power. Unfettered by the wonks and others that are internally crippling the Trump Presidency, Bannon is now free to act and say things that he was suppressing before..

Without the filter of the professional political class hampering his every move, Bannon can now do the job of rallying the troops outside of the rarefied air of the inner circle of Washington DC. One of the biggest things that he and the troops can do is to remove from office the RINOs and others who are purposely impeding Trump's agenda. By working at the grassroots level they can oust self absorbed wonks like Ryan and others and do as the Tea Party did, elect their own candidates.

Yes. There is much danger here in that they may end up in getting the Ryans out and the Dems candidates in. However, how will we know the difference in the reality since the "Ryans" are acting just the same as the opposition party and are in essence no different.

The Dems will also probably screw up this opportunity in 2018 by putting forth their more uber liberal leftists and socialistic types of candidates. Puffed up by their perceived victories over the peripheral issues like the Confederate statues and taken over by the Anti-Fa radicals, they will further turn off the voting public who doesn't give a shit about the statues and who are more concerned with jobs, economic growth and safety.

It is going to be very interesting.

I suspect that Trump is not really all that broken up about Bannon's departure and more likely regards him as being a general sent behind enemy lines to do an end run around the opposition.

CStanley said...

I thought Althouse probably disliked Trump more. At the very least though, doesn't her statement rule out a vote for a third party candidate like Jill Stein?

Bay Area Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ray said...

Everyone may be surprised on the Generals view on the economy and Trump. Procurement and logistics are a large part of their background. I don't believe much will change for the negative. As a developer Trump experienced regulations galore.

Bannon comes across as having sharp elbows and not play well with others. Great for running a campaign and Breitbart, not good once Trump was elected.

And with how the MSM and Left had treated Trump, he won't forget that.

Bay Area Guy said...

1. It doesn't matter who Althouse voted for - her commitment to free speech and free exchange of ideas is far more important.

2. It's hard to know if Bannon's departure helps or hurts Trump. Sure, the Left feels like it got a scalp. But let's see how it plays out. Maybe, Bannon unleashed at Breitbart will be even better for Trump.

3. The "Sturm and Drang" of last week sure makes political life interesting. But, returning to basics, the key is retaining the House in 2018z The Senate, almost mathematically, stays in GOP hands, but the fight over House control is key. If the Dems win a buncha seats, or God forbid, the majority, then impeachment will likely follow (with some help of squishy GOP types).

Topping statutes is merely a Leftwing appetizer - they wanna topple the Presidency.

FullMoon said...

It’ll be something else. And there’ll be all kinds of fights, and there’ll be good days and bad days,

No more Mister Nice Guy, they have awakened a sleeping giant.

CStanley said...

Yes. There is much danger here in that they may end up in getting the Ryans out and the Dems candidates in.

Moreso than that though, a lot of the candidates fielded by the Tea Party have been idiots IMO. It's very frustrating to want change in the direction of the policies enumerated by the Tea Party but feel like they aren't capable of delivering.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Bannon was very instrumental in turning an economic complaint into an ethnic conflict - which he must have thought would be a very constructive path for America to take. Why not tear the country apart with Confederate revivalism, neo-Nazism and other things that he apparently thinks have been so great for America?

Ray said...

No evidence of this, but I wonder if Barcelona is being down played in the news?

And if yes, why?

My guess to keep the heat on Trump and freeze him as a racist.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

This will be very good for Banyon's wardrobe. He much preferred flip-flops, shorts, untucked shirts and stubble to whatever monkey suit they made him dress in at the White House. The revamped look will go much better with his liverspots, also.

Hari said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hari said...

All media pander to a small subset of the public by providing their customers with exactly what they want to hear. Bannon is just going back to work lining up customers for Breitbart.

As Ann points out, "The "we" in Bannon's quote is a subset of the people who voted for Trump." Correct; and Bannon wants as much of that subset reading Breitbart as possible.

He will do it the same way the NYT does it, by convincing his readers that their viewpoint is the only correct viewpoint and by tolerating no other. In sum, Bannon will pursue a strategy that works in the media and doesn't work in running the country.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Pretty soon former staffers will have to manufacture t-shirts that say: "TRUMP WHITE HOUSE" with dates and times of tenure on them. This administration is getting more rotation and turnover than a whorehouse.

Henry said...

The big league is a strange place. You never know what you're getting when you vote for a President.

Baseball statisticians have a mantra - SSS.

Small Sample Size.

Trump's Big League outcomes are still a small sample.

If Ivanka and Jared "won", which is still to be determined, I'm happy with that. We'll see. Remember that before the radical Bannon was fired, the centrist-establishment Priebus was fired, and the turnover in the communications has been pretty much personality-driven.

Vox came up with a good photo.

mockturtle said...

The vast majority of people want 'conventional'? Did we not elect Trump to DRAIN THE SWAMP? Bannon was the voice crying in the wilderness. He will be missed.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Did we not elect Trump to DRAIN THE SWAMP?

Who knew that for you "swamp" meant, Jews, blacks, unionists, non-billionaires, non-lackeys, etc.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The pressure this firing leaves on princeling Kushner to show whatever competence no one ever expected of him in the first place is even more severe than before.

Lauderdale Vet said...

Bannon does rope-a-dope as well and as often as Trump. We would do well to remember that everything we see on the stage is a performance. Sometimes it is the truth, sometimes it is sleight of hand, but it is always designed to elicit something specific from the audience.

mockturtle said...

Who knew that for you "swamp" meant, Jews, blacks, unionists, non-billionaires, non-lackeys, etc.

Toothless, you are entering into libelous territory. I realize that you would be judged not guilty by reason of insanity but please give your vitriol a rest. And give us a rest.

Brookzene said...

Moreso than that though, a lot of the candidates fielded by the Tea Party have been idiots IMO. It's very frustrating to want change in the direction of the policies enumerated by the Tea Party but feel like they aren't capable of delivering.

My question to you is can someone like you work with more-or-less moderate lefties and righties to figure out a path for where this country goes next?

Earnest Prole said...

The travel ban wasn't premature, it just didn't anticipate federal judges acting so far outside their charter.

The travel ban was quite obviously premature, in that Trump scrambled to replace it with one that attempted to correct the glaring flaws of the hastily drafted original (which banned green-card holders from reentering the country among other dumb unforced errors).

William said...

Bannon is no Breitbart........Anyone remember when Karl Rove was Bush's brain? Rove was reputed to be some kind of Machiavellian genius, adept at pulling strings to achieve nefarious purposes. Rove has since become a talking head at Fox. He is affable, intelligent and well informed--and somewhat dull. He doesn't strike me as some kind of Machiavellian genius with an occult streak of madness and evil......Bannon is overrated by both his supporters and his opponents.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Toothless, you are entering into libelous territory.

That in itself is actually closer to libel than anything I said. Please clarify what you mean by this bottomless sinkhole of a useless phrase, "swamp." Conflicted interests and payola are part and parcel of this White House, stacked as it is with billionaires galore. Trump makes personal exemptions on immigrant status for his own employees. The cabinet only does cosmetic stuff for American manufacturing, nothing substantive. Advocating for more pollution to save less jobs than single companies - let alone single industries - have lost, is just more crony shilling. You know all this. All of his crap was just personal vendetta and backbiting that led any decent CEO to abandon his stupid photo-op council. Trump is as anti-innovation as they come, provided no worker protections, he just sees the CEOs he likes (for the moment, because no one likes Trump and Trump likes no one for longer than a moment; he's not even competent in being a completely transactional person) - as a way of puffing him up.

The only thing he knows about business is how to pose for the company Christmas card. He's a total loser and a fake and a phony and got nothing done other than to dirty our planet, revive ethnic conflict and piss off most CEOs, esp. those leading the most innovative flagship companies that America led with.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

STEVEN BANNON

Chief White House Ethnic Conflict Revivalist


Trump White House - Jan. 20 2017 - August 18 2017.

They could make baseball jerseys out of these shirts. Invite all the ousted former Trump WH staffers to play in a league baseball game.

Howard said...

Stage 1 of the soft coup is over.

Ralph L said...

Why not tear the country apart with Confederate revivalism, neo-Nazism
Here I thought it was the left trying to keep racial minorities on the reservation/plantation.

Hagar said...

"Ethnic American" is an interesting concept.
Anyone residing in the United States for any length of time acquire a unique "American" aura, but ethnic identity?

virgil xenophon said...

What Howard, above, just said.

Howard said...

Bannon Off The Record
Bannon said: “There’s no military solution [to North Korea’s nuclear threats], forget it. Until somebody solves the part of the equation that shows me that ten million people in Seoul don’t die in the first 30 minutes from conventional weapons, I don’t know what you’re talking about, there’s no military solution here, they got us.”

I asked Bannon about the connection between his program of economic nationalism and the ugly white nationalism epitomized by the racist violence in Charlottesville and Trump’s reluctance to condemn it... He dismissed the far right as irrelevant and sidestepped his own role in cultivating it: “Ethno-nationalism—it's losers. It's a fringe element. I think the media plays it up too much, and we gotta help crush it, you know, uh, help crush it more.” “These guys are a collection of clowns,” he added.

CStanley said...

My question to you is can someone like you work with more-or-less moderate lefties and righties to figure out a path for where this country goes next?

There are no such moderates remaining in politics. There are very few moderates at all and the few that remain are status quo establishmentarians.

There are voters like me (plenty, I think, but then again who knows because we all assume that we are the normal ones) but there would be no financial backing for a political movement.

Hagar said...

There will be more "Barcelonas" - that is just "the new normal."

But how about the next Pearl Harbor or 9/11?

It will happen sometime, though not necessarily in the U.S.

How will Russia or China react if someone takes a leaf out of bin Laden's book and lobs aircraft, missiles, or whatever into the Kremlin or the Forbidden City?

Or Islamabad, New Dehli, Riyadh, or wherever.

Paddy O said...

I think it's hilarious that people are 'sky is falling!' about Bannon leaving, as if what Bannon said was true.

What did Trump win on? Draining the swamp. Immigration reform, building a wall. Repealing Obamacare.

Maybe unlike Obama, Trump realizes the people who are good about getting a message out there aren't the same people who can get things done. Trump is already a salesman, he doesn't need more salesmen.

It seems to me that if Bannon had done all that he said he has done in keeping the Trump presidency consistent, then we'd see more successes on that front. Bannon couldn't get the votes or the support he needed to pursue the agenda. So, he's out. Because what other job did he have? To tell Trump how to be more Trumpy?

Trump doesn't need a real estate agent, he doesn't need a mini-Trump, he needs people who can build the building. Unlike Obama, maybe Trump realizes being a President isn't the same as running for President, and those different tasks need different people.

How Bannon responds onward will say a lot about whether he really believed any of this stuff or if it was all about his power and ego. If he believed it, he'll continue to work for its success, if he didn't, he'll go on to undermine Trump and get kudos from the media for doing it.

Kansas City said...

Funny, when I read that Ann voted for the person she disliked more, I thought for sure it was Trump. For a smart and pretty reasonable woman like Ann, I assume it is very difficult to "like" the conceited, sexist, narcissistic Donald Trump. As to Hillary, while even democratic insiders don't seem to really like her personally, I assume Ann's problems with her are that she is power hungry, dishonest and incompetent.

As to Trump, it is hard to see how he ultimately succeeds, except for one clear patch to political success -- focus on term limits in 2018. He could make a dramatic announcement that (1) he cannot overcome the media and Washington insiders without terms limits on Washington politicians; (2) give every politician in Washington ten days to announce support for a term limit constitutional amendment; and (3) state he will personally oppose any candidate, democrat or republican, who does not announce support for the specific constitutional amendment that has been approved by [I think] about 25 states.

No republican with any risk of losing could afford to oppose him. Vulnerable democrats would be faced with the choice of agreeing with Trump or increasing their risk of loss (if not dooming their chances). It would allow Trump to support some democrats running against anti-term limit republicans (even though the Dems likely would not want his support).

Trump probably even could ride the issue to re-election in 2020, although personally I think he likely will not run again (if health or impeachment does not get him first). Best of all, it could produce a constitutional amendment establishing term limits.

Hagar said...

If Trump can keep the circus going until 2020, he has done well.
If he can hold out to 2024, he wins.

Roy Lofquist said...

Blogger Lauderdale Vet said...
"...We would do well to remember that everything we see on the stage is a performance..." 8/19/17, 10:11 AM

They all have acts. Some are better at it than others. We won't know who until November of 2018.

CStanley said...

@Kansas City regarding term limits- I like it.

These are the kind of initiatives that I wish that the die hard Trump supporters would get behind because they make sense to all kinds of people who see the problems with the D.C. Establishment, and it would create the conditions necessary for change. The hard part would still come later (the political process of forming coalitions to enact specific changes) but it would be Trump using his political capital to force change in a peaceful manner.

Ray said...

Term limits have not worked out in California. It just made the last lobbyists stronger. Same with the non partisan gerrymandering and top 2 primary winners.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Anyone residing in the United States for any length of time acquire a unique "American" aura, but ethnic identity?

But of course. My family genealogy in America goes back to 1630 in Maryland coming from Scotland and Wales ...and then spread across the Midwest. Some of the ancestors and descendants have lived in the same geographic location since the early 1700's and STILL do so. So, culturally and ethnically we can be considered American.

This is not to jettison our other historic ethnic ties to Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Brittany, Germany or England. However, since I/we have not resided in those countries for several generations....to claim any of those ethnicities as being the central one is just being ridiculous romanticizing of history. Where we came from is interesting and shouldn't be discarded. Where we are now and have been for generations is more important to the ethnicity.

Ethnicity the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition I am American, through and through.

mockturtle said...

DBQ, my family, too, came early to this continent [four of them on the Mayflower]. They would, to a one, call themselves 'Americans'. There is an American ethos. And those who come here should want to be a part of that ethos. Regardless of color, creed or national heritage, we are Americans. NO HYPHENS ALLOWED!

tcrosse said...

Anyone residing in the United States for any length of time acquire a unique "American" aura, but ethnic identity?

If I can choose my gender, regardless of birth, then I can choose my ethnicity.

SukieTawdry said...

So, what's the consensus now? Trump is your basic brainless, spineless sponge, a collection of pores absorbing whatever is swirling around him at any given moment? Steve Bannon is gone so that's the end of any vestige of nationalist thought in the White House. Ivanka and Jared remain so now we will get policies that embrace globalist goals.

Let's suppose every one of Trump's aides and advisors has vacated the premises for a month leaving Trump entirely to his own devices. What would we be hearing from him?

David Begley said...

Looks like I was wrong about Boston. The police did their job. Today makes the disgraceful performance in VA look even worse.

Kansas City said...

Ray said...
Term limits have not worked out in California. It just made the last lobbyists stronger. Same with the non partisan gerrymandering and top 2 primary winners.


I don't enough about California, or what you mean by "last lobbyists stronger," but I doubt that a democratic dominated state legislature is very comparable to DC. You also have to consider what would have happened in CA without term limits - would it have been better.

In any event, if you need to know why federal term limits are a good idea, think Ted Kennedy there for 40 years, Nancy Pelosi, Byrd, Thurmond, McCain, and the whole cast of legislative characters (with a few exceptions). Career politicians making themselves rich and powerful is not a good form of government. Trump is well positioned to end it.

Ralph L said...

The police prevented a riot, but the minority side didn't get to speak. Mob rule, thanks to the previous riots by antifa.

If Trump can keep the circus going until 2020, he has done well.
If he can hold out to 2024, he wins.

Tell that to W.

Molly said...

Look at Trump interview videos back to the early 1980s--he's always talking about trade imbalance/trade war against U.S. by other countries, currency manipulation, etc.--

He did't get his populism from Bannon, for heaven's sake. Why do you think he briefly joined the Reform Party (c. 1999), which started out as a populist entity founded by Ross Perot?

He's had the same notions forever, and certainly since he declared for President--look at his speech after he hit the last step on the escalator--two campaign managers before Bannon.

The reason the Mercers et al. wanted Bannon to get on board with Trump was that Trump was already a nationalist/populist.

He had already won the GOP nomination when Bannon joined him--and he had done it by ripping every opponent and every opponent's worldview to pieces.

In other words, Trump was being himself--he didn't need Bannon to find himself.

Lydia said...

Re that Boston rally being peaceful -- It also helped that the Boston Free Speech Coalition, the group that organized the event, said "it has nothing to do with white nationalism or racism and its group is not affiliated with the Charlottesville rally organizers in any way. 'We are strictly about free speech," the group said on its Facebook page. '... we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence'."

AReasonableMan said...

Ralph L said...
the minority side didn't get to speak.


Not sure what you mean here. They had their rally, that is the speech.

Hagar said...

Word History: When in a Middle English text written before 1400 it is said that a part of a temple fell down and “mad a gret distruccione of ethnykis,” one wonders why ethnics were singled out for death. The word ethnic in this context, however, means “gentile,” coming as it does from the Greek adjective ethnikos, meaning “national, foreign, gentile.” The adjective is derived from the noun ethnos,“people, nation, foreign people,” that in the plural phrase ta ethne meant “foreign nations.” In translating the Hebrew Bible into Greek, this phrase was used for Hebrew goyim,“gentiles”; hence the sense of the noun in the Middle English quotation. The noun ethnic in this sense or the related sense “heathen” is not recorded after 1728, although the related adjective sense is still used. But probably under the influence of other words going back to Greek ethnos, such as ethnography and ethnology, the adjective ethnic broadened in meaning in the 19th century. After this broadening the noun sense “a member of a particular ethnic group,” first recorded in 1945, came into existence.

(Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.)


I still think the word connotes a common genetic heritage as well as language and customs.

Luke Lea said...

For me it was, and remains, all about trade and immigration and what they are doing to the living standards of ordinary working-people, the least-skilled and most vulnerable segments of the population especially, African Americans above all.

Of course I want us to stop intervening in places like Iraq and Afghanistan -- who doesn't by now -- but as for major tax reform or repeal and replace, they don't seem nearly as important to me, as I am sure is the case with most of Trump's voters.

As we go into 2018 I hope he puts trade and immigration reform back at the top of his agenda, and that the fall election will be a referendum on those two signature issues. We need a new Congress.

mockturtle said...

but as for major tax reform or repeal and replace, they don't seem nearly as important to me, as I am sure is the case with most of Trump's voters.

To me, either, Luke, be it's the biggest item on the agenda for the GOPe.

Ralph L said...

ARM, they were shut down early: three quarter rally

AReasonableMan said...

Ralph L said...
they were shut down early


My understanding, from several other sources, is that the organizers packed it in early because so few people turned up. The police in the linked report are simply announcing the organizer's decision. Not sure why the police would have wanted it closed down early, everything seemed well in hand at the time.

David Begley said...

Boston police chief, "The separation worked well."

He can be an expert witness against the Charlottesville police.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

40,000 strong in Boston. Pretty damn impressive.

grackle said...

Trump's biggest problems: He's inarticulate, not likable and not a politician.

Yet here we are and Trump is POTUS after having defeated every opponent. What a lucky guy!

Bannon gave Trump an anchor in philosophy and he now lacks one.

With respect to the commentor (a pro-Trump ally in the comment wars), Bannon assisted Trump for several months but outlived his usefulness and was let go, a commonplace event in the annals of employee/employer relationships. Bannon is now back where Bannon can be the boss and thrill the Breitbart staff with tough-guy pronouncements in editorial meetings.

Trump “philosophy” is to win, a philosophy Trump exhibited long before Bannon arrived. However, I think it is true that Trump has never been an ideologue. If the voters want an ideologue they need to vote for Trump’s opponent(s) in 2020.

Rusty said...

"Who knew that for you "swamp" meant, Jews, blacks, unionists, non-billionaires, non-lackeys, etc"

I see the gin wagon got an early start today.

FWIW "The Swamp" means the limpet like establishment pols and their associated appointed lackeys.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Why are we assuming 'fired' = Animus against President? The man is master of amicable divorces.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Correct me ... I remember Trump as the only candidate to not disparage Ayn Rand. Big plus in my book. Could be where his philosophical roots are!?

Michael K said...

"Bannon has said he has some nice juicy info regarding Trump associates and the Russians."

To who ?

Are you hallucinating again ?

Kevin said...

40,000 strong in Boston. Pretty damn impressive.

By the liberal commenters on this blog that leaves 4.6 million racist Nazis in the Boston Metro area who failed to sufficiently denounce hate.

Unknown said...

From back in June.

According to Scarborough’s sources inside the White House, White House chief political strategist and proud white nationalist Steve "Papa” Bannon is behind leaks against Trump’s son-in-law, Jared “Got Dem Visas” Kushner.

We know that the two have been openly feuding inside the White House over who gets to pull President Vladimir TrumPutin’s puppet strings. And with Papa Bannon’s connections to the “press” via right-wing site Breitbart, this feels highly likely.

“Steve Bannon was running around from—according to my sources, bragging to journalists a month and a half ago that he didn’t have to worry about Kushner and he was going to sideline Kushner because of Russia, that he had information on the Russian investigation, and that he was going to sideline Jared Kushner".

Scarborough added that when he heard the news from his sources, he didn’t give it much thought until major news publications began writing pieces about Kushner and Russian connections.


http://www.theroot.com/joe-scarborough-steve-bannon-is-leaking-all-jared-kush-1795759280

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

FWIW "The Swamp" means the limpet like establishment pols and their associated appointed lackeys.

But not their established owners in the oil and gas and professional lobbying industries. Got it!

All those hundreds of millions you've donated, Ms DeVos, make you as anti-establishment as they come.

hombre said...

The lefties and their mediaswine don't hate Trump they hate us. (Read Here: https://amgreatness.com/2017/08/17/not-trump-hate-us/)

They also hate the First Amendment except insofar as it permits the press to lie with impunity without consequences.

Unfortunately, our champion appears to be weakening under the onslaught. See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4805070/Boston-braces-rally-activists-clash.html, "President Trump tweeted: 'I want to applaud the many protesters in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate. Our country will soon come together as one!'"

Sure it will Donald. "One" under the PC banner you were going to tear down.

hombre said...

"40,000 strong in Boston. Pretty damn impressive."

What's really impressive is that the same crowd went from 15,000 to 40,000 in moments depending on the media source.

AReasonableMan said...

hombre said...
Unfortunately, our champion appears to be weakening under the onslaught.


If it makes you feel any better I very much doubt he wrote those words any more than he wrote the words for his hostage tape last Sunday.

AReasonableMan said...

hombre said...
The lefties and their mediaswine don't hate Trump they hate us.


I read the link, I didn't feel he made a strong case for the article's title.

SukieTawdry said...

but as for major tax reform or repeal and replace, they don't seem nearly as important to me, as I am sure is the case with most of Trump's voters.

I do want to see corporate tax rates come down. Kind of ridiculous to have the second highest corporate tax rate on the planet don't you think. More than that, I'd like to see some real reform of the tax code, 74,608 (when last I checked) pages of convoluted gibberish that even the IRS doesn't understand.

The Democrats created a gigantic mess with their healthcare insurance "reform." It needs to be dealt with.

Apparently Congress can't legislate and chew gum at the same time. They are 535 useless people sitting on half a gazillion committees, sub-committees, ad hoc committees, standing committees, joint committees, special committees, select committees. Seems like some of these committees could get off their asses and on their feet and get to work on some of this stuff. What do these people do with their time??

hombre said...

Blogger AReasonableMan said...
'hombre said...
"The lefties and their mediaswine don't hate Trump they hate us."

I read the link, I didn't feel he made a strong case for the article's title.'

The assertion is correct in the absence of the article. You remember "the basket of deplorables ... racist, homophobic, etc." Half of Trump supporters which she put at "11 million strong." Since Trump is clearly not those things it is evident that the posters and signs of the Antifa and their cohorts refer to Trump supporters. It is unlikely that people who engage in repressing the First Amendment rights of others have the finite distinction "half" attributable to Hillary. Hillary's half, BTW, grew to more than 30 million.

You read this blog often enough to know that your fellow travelers here speak of us generally in the same terms. I can't imagine that you're sincerely contesting my statement or the article I linked.

Stephen said...

Amen.

rcocean said...

I don't enough about California, or what you mean by "last lobbyists stronger," but I doubt that a democratic dominated state legislature is very comparable to DC. You also have to consider what would have happened in CA without term limits - would it have been better.

You can pass term limits, but if you import - through immigration - enough Left-wing voters, it won't matter.

You can pass all the constitutional amendments and "process Laws" you want. But if enough voters want Leftism, you' ll get leftism.

NYC Mayor Bloomberg had term limits. But the term limits went away - and meant nothing -when he and the City council didn't like them. Jerry Brown didn't like the death penalty & he appointed Calf. Justices - like Rose Bird - who refused to enforce it. So the death penalty law, on the books, was a dead letter.

AReasonableMan said...

hombre said...
You read this blog often enough to know that your fellow travelers here speak of us generally in the same terms. I can't imagine that you're sincerely contesting my statement or the article I linked.


You undermine your own argument here by attributing insincere motives to me, and by extension also to the lefties, while claiming that it is only the lefties who question the character/motives of the righties.

When it comes to name-calling on this site the righties rarely come in second place. There is, however, too much name-calling, but apparently that point of view is civility bullshit, so I will not mention it again.

hombre said...

ARM wrote: "You undermine your own argument here by attributing insincere motives to me, and by extension also to the lefties, while claiming that it is only the lefties who question the character/motives of the righties."

So if I say you are dumb as a rock, somehow, "by extension," that applies to all lefties. Sorry, I'm quite sure that doesn't follow and that it doesn't "undermine (my) argument."

Also, I didn't say anything about "only the lefties ...." You missed the point.