August 24, 2017

"A new report lists Wisconsin as the worst state in America for racial inequality."

"The special new report titled Black and White Inequality in All 50 States considered 10 separate social and economic measures that tend to be unequal along racial lines."

Why Wisconsin and who's to blame?

135 comments:

MadisonMan said...

How can this be? Mayor Soglin just this month has removed Confederate Plaques!

MayBee said...

Worst for inequality actually sounds like a good thing.

Jay Vogt said...

Presuming that's not a rhetorical question, . . . . . um. . . . the citizens.

rhhardin said...

Tax the rich out of the state and your problem is solved.

sunsong said...

oops

traditionalguy said...

May I suggest affirmative action. There are so many young men in South Chicago who need relocation, many in hospital and therapy for gun shot wounds. The other guys did notmake it. So you have established who are the better shots. Where is your heart?

Pianoman said...

check ur privilege, H4T3R

MadisonMan said...

What MayBee said. Being #1 in Racial Inequality, per the linked Headline, is bad. Being Worst for Racial Inequality, as in the story: that's open to a good interpretation.

Bad writing at the State Journal: Not news.

mccullough said...

Minnesota is second. The inequality is the result of Lutherans

buwaya said...

Ive mentioned here, years before, that you can see something like this in NAEP educational testing results also.

hawkeyedjb said...

"Minnesota is second."

I can understand Wisconsin - inequality started the moment you elected a Republican governor. But what's to explain Minnesota?

rcocean said...

Whites need to commit more violent crimes.

Lets close the racial crime gap!

Nonapod said...

inequality started the moment you elected a Republican governor

Republican governors are magic beings that you can poor all the blame into. Every state should have one.

Fritz said...

How did they beat out Oregon?

Michael K said...

I like the idea of importing all those young black men who are recovering from wounds.

It would be good for the crime statistics.

After all, they imported lots of Democrats from Chicago for the anti-Walker campaign.

Titus said...

Do you goobers know that Massachusetts always ranks at the TOP in the USA in almost all categories-education, health care, jobs, being thin, and so much more. We were 35 in this report. I couldn't imagine living in some of those states that have like 1.0 blackies. Where would I get any dick?

tits

rcocean said...

Some of the problem relates to the "Great Migration" of blacks from the South.

The smartest black migrants went out West - or north to NYC, New England or Chicago. The smartest ones went to Hawaii, with its fine beaches and warm weather.

And that leaves the ones who missed Chicago and went further north to Wisc and Minnesota were the last and the least.

rehajm said...

They've hidden the raw data. Wouldn't want us peans to come to the wrong conclusions...

Given the worst states are big agricultural states and given their methodology you could speculate farm households which skew heavily white could be seen as having higher top line revenue compared to wage and salary earners. Farmers 'own' their own homes., etc. etc....

5 TIMES as many sounds far scarier than .2% of white population vs. 1.4% of black population incarcerated.

Krumhorn said...

Maybe it's because the Ice People thrive better in ......well....the ice and snow....than do the Sun People. Anyone who has felt the sharp knife in the gut of the winter winds blasting off Lake Michigan instinctively knows that is not similar in any respect to the climatic roots of the melanin-enhanced.

And if that's not the reason, then I blame the lefties who are responsible for and own 95% of what's wrong in this country.

- Krumhorn

Tommy Duncan said...

Democrat politicians are quietly writing bumper sticker slogans to turn this report into votes. After all, look at what decades of Democrat rule has done for blacks in Milwaukee and Madison.

sean said...

Black and white populations with very different cultures. Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor. The roots of this culture are in Wessex and the Scottish marches, with an African admixture. That culture retards the economic progress, and contributes to the social pathologies, of both groups. When Southern blacks moved north, they settled among Germans and Scandinavians, whose culture stressed civility and hard work. But they did not adopt that culture, and their performance therefore has greatly lagged that of their white neighbors.

Isn't it funny--funny pathetic, not funny haha--that these rather obvious statements could not be made in a university setting. "Gentlemen, you can't study these issues here. This is a university!"

sean said...

Modify my last comment to change "moved north" to "moved to midwestern states like Wisconsin and Minnesota."

rhhardin said...

No black fathers at home, black mothers always angry, kids take on the anger and attribute it to racism.

Moynahan got it more right than he could expect.

The growth of bad moral character wasn't seen as the key variable.

alan markus said...

Two things resulted in a large in-migration of blacks to Wisconsin:

1) HUD Section 8 Vouchers & subsidized housing in Wisconsin resulted in people fleeing from Chicago. Looking for better schools and to get away from abusive boyfriends (who later relocated too.)

2) AFDC/Welfare disparity. Wisconsin's was much more generous than Illinois, so recipients were jumping the border. Wisconsin tried to impose a residency period (6 months?) at the Illinois lower rate before getting the substantially larger Wisconsin amount. Some Federal judge said no, that violated constitutional right to travel.

YoungHegelian said...

I think it's all about ethnicity. It's not like the Germans & Scandinavians back in Europe are doin' so well with their brown people, either.

Northern Europeans, like the Scandinavians & Germans who run Wisconsin, are wondrous to behold in their sanctimony. It's like "Look, we've got all these good social programs, but you guys are still useless. What's your problem?". In good North-European Social Democrat style, they wanted a program of charity to run on auto-pilot, but still produce results.

Blacks are Southerners, & Southerners need their charity to come with a personal touch. That's why there's so much church-sponsored charity by even small congregations. Autopilot Charity tells a Southerner, that he's tolerated but not liked in these here parts, which for blacks gets heard as "You n*****s" & for whites "You white trash".

I've been to Wisconsin many times, & I sense the social coldness. When I take my Wisconsin nieces into the South, the phrase that always comes out of their mouths is "Wow! People really are friendlier in the South!".

Darrell said...

Unequal outcomes?
I've never heard of such a thing!

Big Mike said...

Does it prove anything besides black people being too smart to live in places with cold winters?

BGrear said...

Milk and cheese are the products of white privilege.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

A new report lists Wisconsin as the worst state in America for racial inequality.

It sounds like it's the best state in America for racial inequality.

It is the worst state for racial equality.

mockturtle said...

Black and white populations with very different cultures. Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor.

Sean, you can't have spent much time in the South to have made such an idiotic statement.

Beaver7216 said...

Interesting list. It appears that having very few Blacks (perhaps as a result of historic prejudice)helps. Only 1 state (Delaware) among the best 10 states has more than 4% Black population. Oregon, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, Hawaii, Vermont, and New Hampshire (all in best 10) have less than 2%. Perhaps WI, MN, IL, etc. should not have been so welcoming and undemanding of Black immigrants
BTW, among the best 10 states, 5 have Republican governors and 5 have Democratic governors.

Achilles said...

Why Wisconsin and who's to blame?

My guess is the main correlation will be in the concentration of Black people into the urban centers. Are there many(any) black people in rural/suburban Wisconsin? Other states will have.

I am willing to bet this covers all races as well although I would expect to see a split bell curve with wealthy and poor. Cities are designed and operated for the benefit of their wealthy inhabitants.

Other states will have had more Black people escape urban(democrat) poverty.

rcocean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

"Some Federal judge said no, that violated constitutional right to travel."

LOL. They just make up shit as they go along.

Judaical tyranny with a comic accent.

robother said...

States with the most generous welfare systems created by Nordic immigrants attract Blacks looking to minimize reported income to take advantage of same. Who could've predicted it? (Aside from Daniel Patrick Moynihan and every conservative economist, of course.)

rcocean said...

Inequality ranking could result from:

1) Whites in Minn/Wisc. being better than white average
2) Blacks in Minn/Wisc. being worse than black average

In any case, SOMEONE has to be 50th.

That's what happens when you do "rankings". Everyone can't be tied for 1st.

Static Ping said...

Frankly, whenever I hear any of these racial category studies anymore, I just ignore it. Half the time the study is garbage, it is rarely brought in good faith, the solutions recommended never work, and any alternative explanations that would not immediately condemn white people are declared racist. The only people who benefit from this are the people who do the study and race baiters. Nothing good will come of this so why bother?

Achilles said...

sean said...
Black and white populations with very different cultures. Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor. The roots of this culture are in Wessex and the Scottish marches, with an African admixture. That culture retards the economic progress, and contributes to the social pathologies, of both groups. When Southern blacks moved north, they settled among Germans and Scandinavians, whose culture stressed civility and hard work. But they did not adopt that culture, and their performance therefore has greatly lagged that of their white neighbors.

Climate has a lot to do with this as well. Real climate not the joke climate change stuff.

Achilles said...

""A new report lists Wisconsin as the worst state in America for racial inequality.""

I think you should also make sure the Russians didn't hack the Wisconsin elections to get Scott Walker elected.

If you look long enough you can find a crime or two to get Walker removed and all of your inequality will disappear(from the news) overnight.

BDNYC said...

Because Wisconsin wandered off the blue reservation in November 2016. That's why.

rcocean said...

Only 1 state (Delaware) among the best 10 states has more than 4% Black population. Oregon, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, Hawaii, Vermont, and New Hampshire (all in best 10) have less than 2%.

It seems to have more to do with not having a large urban black population. Most crime is in big cities.

rcocean said...

"Frankly, whenever I hear any of these racial category studies anymore, I just ignore it."

That's true of almost all "Social Science" studies. They're almost always done by Leftists who disregard fact in favor of "social activism".

Anyone doing a study that shows "badthink" will get destroyed by their colleagues.

Art in LA said...

Wait, what? Does this make Wisconsin the best state in America for racial equality?

rhhardin said...

Whoever's hosting Rush is pretty unlistenable.

J. Farmer said...

Black and white populations with very different cultures. Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor.

There actually is something to this statement, though I am not sure to what degree. Thomas Sowell makes a similar argument in his collection of essays Black Rednecks and White Liberals, where he traces certain cultural habits to North Britons and Scots-Irish who settled in the region. In David Fischer's book Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America he makes a similar argument, particularly in the chapter "Borderlands to the Backcountry."

Howard said...

Ann "Phenolphthalein" Althouse titrating for racist commentators. Be sure to purchase the latest edition of "The Hidden History of the Mud People" by Ellwood Skidmore via the Althouse Amazon Porthole.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

sean said...Black and white populations with very different cultures. Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor

Northern and Southern people have traditionally had different cultures and that's partially due to different heritage/population origin, etc. That's true of course. Some of your expressions of that true idea, though, are a bit...wanting. 'Cause if there's one thing the South is known for it's our "disdain for manual labor." Nailed it.

Skippy Tisdale said...

White folks in MN and WI place a high value on education and the work-ethic. That very likely is the reason for the disparity.

Hagar said...

It is cold and wet up there and the food is mostly inedible for the lactose intolerant.

DKWalser said...

How in the world did Wisconsin beat Utah for the title?

J. Farmer said...

I do not believe one can fully comprehend the black-white inequality issue without first digesting the lessons of Murray and Herstein's The Bell Curve. Even if one is not ultimately persuaded by their thesis, it is a powerfully argued book. Since at least the second half of the 20th century, access to higher education (particularly elite institutions) and many professions was based on how well one did on heavily g loaded tests of academic merit. This has caused a certain class stratification in our society among intellectual lines. Approximately 50% of white Americans have IQs over 100, but only about 16% of blacks have IQs over 100. That has huge implications for inequality in this country but it's barely even allowed to be acknowledged, let alone discussed publicly. John McWhorter recently made a valiant effort in arguing for why it should be ignored, but I think he failed miserably.

p.s. This was all predicted in Michael Young's brilliant 1958 satire The Rise of the Meritocracy. It is often forgotten that when Young coined that term, he did not consider it a good thing.

Curious George said...

I dunno. There were African Americans at State Fair, and the seemed to be having fun.

J. Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

"It seems to have more to do with not having a large urban black population. Most crime is in big cities."

I think this is an important observation. Chicago and Detroit and Baltimore are examples of the worst of the urban class that is self destructive.

I have read of blacks leaving Chicago to go back South. I suspect they will probably settle in smaller communities.

Also there are probably more middle class jobs in the South these days. Nonunion jobs.

Los Angeles seems to have lost some of its black population and Watts is now largely Hispanic with lots of illegals.

J. Farmer said...

@HoodlumDoodlum:

'Cause if there's one thing the South is known for it's our "disdain for manual labor." Nailed it.

That actually is considered a prominent cultural feature of certain southern settlers. See Grady McWhiney's Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South. He makes the argument that herding cultures produce a disdain for work and a propensity towards violence. Jim Webb explore similar themes in his book Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America.

Achilles said...

rcocean said...
Only 1 state (Delaware) among the best 10 states has more than 4% Black population. Oregon, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, Hawaii, Vermont, and New Hampshire (all in best 10) have less than 2%.

It seems to have more to do with not having a large urban black population. Most crime is in big cities.


Bingo.

Luke Lea said...

Too close to the Canadian border.

rhhardin said...

Ann "Phenolphthalein" Althouse titrating for racist commentators.

It actually is literal racism (difference in races); the difference from the usual "racist" connotation is that the commentators wish blacks well.

Instead of making the problems worse, why not look at what's true and tailor a solution to that instead.

Say stress good character instead of resentment. Good character gets you pretty far in life and it's easily taught.

Bad character is even more easily taught. Stop teaching it.

Otto said...

" ...who's to blame? Reality

tim maguire said...

Eighth most liberal, but first in inequality--punching above your weight again. Congratulations on beating the big boys, New York and California.

How'd you do it?

rhhardin said...

Show up for work reliably; work to be as valuable to your boss as you can.

The habit becomes natural.

Even if your boss doesn't appreciate it, some other boss will.

How hard is that?

Otto said...

'..who's to blame?' Those statues.

mockturtle said...

The biggest mistake blacks and poor whites made was to move to northern cities. The lure of jobs was strong but the cost was huge. Cities may be good for rich people and for rats but are bad for everyone else. Cities are also great tools of the left--vote plantations, if you will. It's so darned convenient to have people contained where you can study and manipulate them. Out in the country, you never know what they might be thinking or doing.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"A new report lists Wisconsin as the worst state in America for racial inequality."
I suppose all of the Black people in Wisconsin will move somewhere else?
This is, of course, fake news. Actually it is second-hand fake news. The author of the original Wall Street 24/7piece, Michael Sauter, seems to make his living writing listicles. He is not an academic. To be extremely generous, his article is a metastudy. Metastudies can be useful, but most scholarly publications won't publish them because the research method is basically cherry picking the results from previous research, and using those results to justify the thesis. Social science and other humanities will publish metastudies, because their standards are crap.

Richard Dolan said...

Statistics like these obfuscate as much as they enlighten, perhaps more. Not much to see in these lists, and less to learn from them.

Howard said...

rh: imagine having to suffer through dipshit-dweeb profiling, scorn and abuse every minute of every day with your keen math and CW skilz on a big diesel electric rig in Bakersfield with tobacco spitting hungover violent roughnecks fucking with your shit the entire tour. Your type wouldn't last 5-minute. This vile racism stems from pathological pride and vanity making it impossible for you people" to see how motherfucking easy life is in the land of milk and honey compared to blacks.

Edmund said...

Interesting that only 1 of the ten worst is in the south (Virginia).

Fernandinande said...

Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor.

Not really, at least for murder rates.

White murder rates by state

1. District of Columbia 12.43 (weird stats, see link)
2. Nevada 6.64
3. New Mexico 6.63
4. Arizona 6.43
5. California 5.81
6. Oklahoma 4.45
7. Texas 4.38
8. Alaska 4.12
9. Hawaii 3.64
10. Maryland 3.52
11. South Carolina 3.52
12. Tennessee 3.51
13. Louisiana 3.42
14. Missouri 3.42
15. West Virginia 3.05
16. Arkansas 3.00
17. Alabama 2.91
18. North Carolina 2.90
19. Colorado 2.86
20. Georgia 2.68
21. Kentucky 2.66
22. Kansas 2.51
23. Wyoming 2.49
24. Virginia 2.44
25. Washington 2.43
26. Indiana 2.41
27. New York 2.35
28. New Jersey 2.27
29. Mississippi 2.21
30. Michigan 2.19
31. Pennsylvania 2.16
32. Idaho 2.10
33. Connecticut 2.03
34. Oregon 1.98
35. Montana 1.84
36. Rhode Island 1.84
37. Massachusetts 1.74
38. Ohio 1.73
39. Delaware 1.69
40. Utah 1.63
41. Maine 1.60
42. Vermont 1.58
43. Wisconsin 1.34
44. Illinois 1.27
45. South Dakota 1.21
46. Nebraska 1.19
47. North Dakota 1.19
48. Iowa 1.14
49. Minnesota 0.91
50. New Hampshire 0.86

johns said...

Why all the theorizing? The authors of the article don't provide any supposed reason for there to be differences among the states for their measure of inequality. If there is any random variation at all, then there is a range of values, and Wisconsin happens to have one end of the range. So what?
This reminds me of a particularly vapid Sunday sermon I heard a while ago in which the minister said with great gravity and moral authority that Pasadena has the greatest income inequality in California. My reaction was "And..." Pasadena has some extremely rich neighborhoods and some quite poor neighborhoods, with not much in the way of middle class neighborhoods. Does that make Pasadena morally inferior to its neighboring towns of Los Angeles, Alhambra, Altadena, Sierra Madre and Arcadia? No, it just means that the people putting out this garbage that passes for "studies" are morons.

johns said...

morons and politically motivated.

Gahrie said...

Los Angeles seems to have lost some of its black population and Watts is now largely Hispanic with lots of illegals.

So is Compton. Black people are moving inland to places like Barstow.

Oso Negro said...

Even blogs from Wisconsin are problematic for blacks. We haven't had an active negro poster here since Crack Emcee jumped the lot.

Oso Negro said...

Blogger Howard said...
rh: imagine having to suffer through dipshit-dweeb profiling, scorn and abuse every minute of every day with your keen math and CW skilz on a big diesel electric rig in Bakersfield with tobacco spitting hungover violent roughnecks fucking with your shit the entire tour. Your type wouldn't last 5-minute. This vile racism stems from pathological pride and vanity making it impossible for you people" to see how motherfucking easy life is in the land of milk and honey compared to blacks.


Are you imagining rh as himself here Howard, or as a hypothetical negro?

sean said...

Ferdinande's list above shows 8 of the 11 Confederate states in the top 20, and 2 more in the top 30. (Oddly, Florida isn't listed.) So that tends to confirm the claim that a culture of violence prevails in the South, among whites as well as blacks.

MadisonMan said...

I've always thought that phenolphthalein would be a great Spelling Bee word.

The wonder of Sugars.

buwaya said...

NAEP 8th Grade Math 2015 test score White Mean - Black Mean
top and bottom States/DC

from here - https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/data_tools.aspx

I find this a bellweather test score that is an excellent proxy for all sorts of other things. This is just a test of the original authors conclusion.

8th grade is comparable as there are no curriculum or dropout rate discrepancies to correct, Math is math and not culturally loaded, etc.

District of Columbia 59
Wisconsin 47
Nebraska 41
Minnesota 40
Connecticut 39
Pennsylvania 39
Colorado 37
Indiana 37
Iowa 37
....
Mississippi 27
Missouri 27
Alaska 26
Kansas 26
New York 26
Louisiana 25
Kentucky 24
Oklahoma 21
West Virginia 16

There are reasons for everything here of course. West Virginia has a small difference because the white results there are dreadful. But Wisconsin really is a special case as can be seen by the simple mean of black scores -

Alabama 248
Wisconsin 249
Michigan 251
Pennsylvania 253
Tennessee 253
Nebraska 254
....
Texas 267
Massachusetts 268
New Jersey 269
Arizona 269
Alaska 269
DoDEA 271

Note - Texas is up there with MA, and there are far more black people in TX.

This is NOT just some concocted number re blacks in Wisconsin. Whatever the original writer did can be observed in other, more specific and un-massaged data.

And such a poor performance or large inter-population difference in a standardized test does reflect some real cause.

320Busdriver said...

Why Wisconsin and who's to blame?

Because Milwaukee. Long the most segregated city in the nation. White dipshit leaders like Tommy milqtoast Barrett and Chief Flynn who are content to let disorder and criminals run free to terrrorize their own neighborhoods.

I won't allow and counsel my kids to stay the hell away from the NW side. It's too damn dangerous to even drive through that area. I don't think Madison has any comparably dangerous areas.

Bruce Hayden said...

"Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor.

Not really, at least for murder rates.

White murder rates by state

1. District of Columbia 12.43 (weird stats, see link)
2. Nevada 6.64
3. New Mexico 6.63
4. Arizona 6.43
5. California 5.81
6. Oklahoma 4.45
7. Texas 4.38

...
Notice something about those actual states (ignoring D.C.)? They all have large Hispanic, often recent immigrant, populations. And those Hispanics are classified as "white".

buwaya said...

"And those Hispanics are classified as "white"."

True. This has been a problem with crime statistics for a long time.
Ron Unz has done good work at unpacking it.

Quite convincingly I think. There has been a considerable debate on this.

http://www.ronunz.org/2010/01/26/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/

Fernandinande said...

J. Farmer said...
He makes the argument that herding cultures produce a disdain for work and a propensity towards violence. Jim Webb explore similar themes in his book Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America.


HBD Chick addresses that issue with the European "Hajnal line" (nuptiality) and flatlanders vs. mountaineers
"peoples in lowland areas below 500m above sea level have a tendency to outbreed (i.e. avoid cousin marriage) while uplanders above 500m above sea level (and, perhaps, peoples in other marginal areas)"

As usual she has plenty of maps and tons of data; scroll to the bottom of the pages for similar subjects related to "Human BioDiversity".

mockturtle said...

Notice something about those actual states (ignoring D.C.)? They all have large Hispanic, often recent immigrant, populations. And those Hispanics are classified as "white".

Yes. I have seen a direct correlation in states between homicides and Hispanic population, largely due to gang violence in those states. There is certainly no indication, for instance, that non-Hispanic whites in New Mexico are particularly violent.

320Busdriver said...

From MJS

"About 35% of UWM's incoming freshmen graduate in the bottom half of their high school class. And the most recent four-year graduation rate for black students in Milwaukee Public Schools — a major feeder school district for UWM — is 54.7%. Wisconsin also has the nation's widest gap in high school graduation rates for white and black students."

Only 20% of black students graduate in 6 years at UWM..

buwaya said...

The advantage of data from different directions is a good way to start to troubleshoot.

As with say Howard's perspective. There are no (or I assume there aren't, based on population statistics) harassing white people in near-all black Milwaukee middle schools. And since Texas, say, also has near-all black middle schools, with very different results, its clear that there is something special about whats going on inside Milwaukee middle schools.

Henry said...

I blame the Finns.

Kate said...

Milwaukee. We rode the bus when we lived there and I have never seen such a segregated city/place. Often our family were the only white people on the bus in certain middle-class parts of town. The city practically had a line on the map.

Caligula said...

"The study measured gaps between black and white residents in areas like unemployment, income and homeownership."

Well, if you can't do much to reduce black unemployment or increase black income or homeownership you could surely reduce inequality by increasing white unemployment while decreasing white homeownership and income, couldn't you?

Near confiscatory taxes on the middle class would reduce income inequality (assuming they're measuring income after taxes and gov't benefits are figured in), and home ownership can be reduced by making it more costly to own a home.

"While black people in Wisconsin were about 11 times more likely to be incarcerated." So,k imprison more white people! Or just de-criminalize everything.


Of course, for the study to actually target racial inequality it would have to use similarly-situated population samples of white and black people, which they obviously did not do. But if there are many differences between the populations they compared (not just race), then why attribute the differences in outcomes as racial?

walter said...

This will be remedied by Moustache Man's Grand Trolley

David said...

I got about 2/3 of the way through the entire list until the buggy scrolling drove me nuts.

There is not a single state where blacks are close to whites based on the metric they designed. It's not a bad metric either, assuming that the data is more or less accurate. Not one state.

I would say that members of any one group of people who are blaming members of another group should take a deep breath and look at their own responsibility. The two groups that should start doing this are white people and black people. Proceed from there.

Fernandinande said...

Re - Hispanics and murder rate - the guy clearly addresses that at the link but can't remove the possible influence. There's a link to state murder rates in 1960, when there were much fewer Hispanics, and it's fairly similar to the posted one.

buwaya said...
NAEP 8th Grade Math 2015 test score White Mean - Black Mean


It'd be nice to see the difference in standard-deviations.

Sailer just posted -
Scores by Race on LSAT, GRE, McAT, GMAT, and DAT
"black mean score on, say, the GMAT (for MBA programs) would fall at the 13th percentile among whites"

That's worse than 1 stddev lower, as it is for most of the tests, something I find strange with a constrained (e.g. all are college graduates), rather than random, sample of test takers.

David said...

"5 TIMES as many sounds far scarier than .2% of white population vs. 1.4% of black population incarcerated."

Not to me. Of every 100 black people, 1.5 are in jail. Break this down by gender and it will be a lot worse. Add those on probation etc and it is worse and worse.

Scares the shit out of me and I know it scares the shit out of a lot of black people too. As well it should.

Howard said...

As himself Oso Negro.

David said...

Scores by race on SAT etc . . . .

You will note that the latest data is from 2008. It was so embarrassing that they stopped publishing it. I doubt it's even being collected.

One of the biggest elements of racism is ignoring the problems. I would say that liberals are as guilty in this department as non liberals.

David said...

We have a big problem, people.

And it's not Confederate Monuments.

Rabel said...

Let's make a comparison:

1. Wisconsin
> African American population: 6.2% (24th smallest)
> Median household income: $29,223 (black), $59,056 (white)
> Unemployment rate: 10.6% (black), 3.8% (white)
> Homeownership rate: 26.2% (black), 71.6% (white)
> Incarceration rate (per 100,000): 2,542 (black), 221 (white)

Compared to another state picked totally at random:

25. Mississippi
> African American population: 37.6% (the largest)
> Median household income: $26,818 (black), $50,609 (white)
> Unemployment rate: 7.8% (black), 4.5% (white)
> Homeownership rate: 53.5% (black), 76.5% (white)
> Incarceration rate (per 100,000): 1,052 (black), 346 (white)

buwaya said...

"It'd be nice to see the difference in standard-deviations."

The NAEP reports give that, I just stripped those columns.
I left the link for the reporting tools - give them a try.

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/data_tools.aspx

buwaya said...

"There is not a single state where blacks are close to whites based on the metric they designed. It's not a bad metric either, assuming that the data is more or less accurate. Not one state. "

Nor in most other metrics, see above (8th Grade Math NAEP) for one not included in the original article.

roesch/voltaire said...

It goes way back to the establishment of the Milwaukee freeway system which helped put the boundary around a red-lined ghetto and the closing of manufacturing jobs--- Allis Chalmers closed in l985, and for good measure throw in a racist police chief like Harold Breier and what you have left is explored in the film 53206 which depicts the high arrest rates in Milwaukee; it will be shown tonight at the Overture Center.

buwaya said...

"It goes way back to the establishment of the Milwaukee freeway system which helped put the boundary around a red-lined ghetto and the closing of manufacturing jobs---"

I find it hard to believe that this sort of situation is unique to Milwaukee.
There are ghettos, red lined areas and long-gone racist police chiefs everywhere.

Quaestor said...

The infamous heretics Herrnstein and Murry explained everything 23 years ago.

walter said...

"high arrest rates in Milwaukee"
Well..must somewhat lowered due to no-chase policy there regarding carjacking...I mean "stollies", "joyriding"..."vehicular redistribution"...

Gahrie said...

what you have left is explored in the film 53206 which depicts the high arrest rates in Milwaukee;

Let me guess...the arrests have nothing to do with actual criminal activity...instead institutional racism and White oppression of Blacks is the cause.

J. Farmer said...

Fernandinande said...

As usual she has plenty of maps and tons of data; scroll to the bottom of the pages for similar subjects related to "Human BioDiversity".

I have read HBDChick for a while and am familiar with her work, particularly her interest in consanguinity. Francis Fukuyama discusses similar themes in his book The Origins of Political Order and describes it as the "tyranny of cousins." I find that a lot of Fukuyama's work dovetails nicely with Jared Diamond and the whole human biodiversity concept, though I doubt either would ever really embrace the connection given the politically poisonous atmosphere surrounding such concepts.

Gahrie said...


Scares the shit out of me and I know it scares the shit out of a lot of black people too. As well it should.


Apparently it doesn't scare the Black criminals enough.

Howard said...

Herrnstein and Murry predicted the rise of Trump and edging towards totalitarianism because smart people don't reproduce as prolifically as the dumb deplorables.

Todd said...

David said...

One of the biggest elements of racism is ignoring the problems. I would say that liberals are as guilty in this department as non liberals.



Worst than that is that liberals are hell bent on fixing the wrong problems. For example, in education, instead of doing more to promote better learning and higher standards they push crap like Ebonics, lower standards, and the elimination of grades. They think the issue is self-esteem and more SJW subjects instead of a return to basics and better teaching standards.

320Busdriver said...

what you have left is explored in the film 53206 which depicts the high arrest rates in Milwaukee;

Let me guess...the arrests have nothing to do with actual criminal activity...instead institutional racism and White oppression of Blacks is the cause



I think the large increase in violent crime in Milwaukee is due to the opposite:
http://fox6now.com/2017/07/26/high-risk-criminals-on-state-supervision-often-avoid-revocation-despite-serious-or-ongoing-violations/

J. Farmer said...

@Howard:

Herrnstein and Murry predicted the rise of Trump and edging towards totalitarianism because smart people don't reproduce as prolifically as the dumb deplorables.

William Shockley actually made that point more than 20 years before The Bell Curve was published.

J. Farmer said...

p.s. And of course, had his professional life and reputation destroyed for it.

buwaya said...

What Wisconsin has much less of than other States is labor competition for black workers -

http://www.unz.com/isteve/california-has-been-bad-for-blacks/

alan markus said...

Here's a Chicago Tribune article from 32 years ago: Families On Aid Escape To Wisconsin

Many residents say their new neighbors are coming to Wisconsin from northern Illinois to jump aboard the state`s generous welfare system.
``Wisconsin is No. 3 in the nation in welfare payments and we`re shooting for second place and the silver medal in the welfare olympics,`` said State Sen. Joseph Andrea, a Democrat whose district includes Kenosha County.


The average monthly payment in Wisconsin is $463.24.
Families can move to Wisconsin from Illinois and collect as much as $281 a month more in Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC). In some cases, local welfare officials say, they continue to collect welfare checks from Illinois under a different name.


Some of the poor say they come to Wisconsin for jobs, but that`s a hard line to sell in Kenosha, a troubled city that faces the possible loss of its biggest employer, the American Motors Corp. auto plant.
``These people have no intention of going to work,`` says Lt. Michael Serpe, a Kenosha police detective. ``To believe them when they say they are coming here for jobs is to believe in the tooth fairy. There are no jobs. They are coming here for one reason: Welfare pays more.``


``Higher welfare payments in Wisconsin contribute to our crime problem,`` Father Roscioli said. ``If I were living in Illinois and on welfare, I`d be an idiot not to move to Wisconsin and get $200 to $300 a month more.``

Governor Earl was a Democrat: The gap between payments in Illinois and Wisconsin may soon get worse. Andrea, the state senator, led a fight in Madison to stop Gov. Anthony Earl`s plan to increase AFDC payments by 3 percent in each of the next two years. Legislators agreed to a compromise increase of 2 percent.

Future Governor Tommy Thompson cleaned up the mess - led the movement to replace AFDC with TANF - "Temporary Aid for Needy Families". President Clinton took it national.

buwaya said...

"Many residents say their new neighbors are coming to Wisconsin from northern Illinois to jump aboard the state`s generous welfare system."

This is a good prospect for an explanation. It is similar to the one for the deplorable black scores in the San Francisco school district for instance, where it is likely that there is a population-selection effect, in that high rents drove out the higher-scoring middle- lower-middle class blacks, leaving a disproportionate number of the local population as the lower class in public housing. San Francisco therefore has a lower fraction of the black population as only the very poor could afford to stay in the city.

This can be explored by comparing WI demographic stats by year, and deriving a proportionate picture of the origin of the WI black population.

Char Char Binks said...

Or best, depending no how you look at it.

mockturtle said...

``To believe them when they say they are coming here for jobs is to believe in the tooth fairy. There are no jobs. They are coming here for one reason: Welfare pays more.``

This can apply to European countries today regarding African immigration.

Char Char Binks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Char Char Binks said...

I once had a white roommate who was looking for the BEST place to live with his black girlfriend. They wanted to find an area that met their criteria of having a low crime rate and a high degree of racial diversity (they actually meant with as many Blacks and as few whites as possible). I tried not to laugh out loud.

Howard said...

J Farmer: In a way, Mencken predicted it 60-years ago.

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

Gahrie said...

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

Yes..but Obama's gone now and the country has moved on.

rhhardin said...

"rh: imagine having to suffer through dipshit-dweeb profiling, scorn and abuse every minute of every day with your keen math and CW skilz on a big diesel electric rig in Bakersfield with tobacco spitting hungover violent roughnecks fucking with your shit the entire tour. Your type wouldn't last 5-minute. This vile racism stems from pathological pride and vanity making it impossible for you people" to see how motherfucking easy life is in the land of milk and honey compared to blacks."

Is this about trains? Unstoppable (2010) Denzel Washington.

Clyde said...

"Why Wisconsin and who's to blame?"

Don't know about the first part, but the answer to the last part is obviously "white people!" At least, that's what the people purveying that pablum would have you believe. I'm sure that is a repeating theme in the 112 comments about mine.

Jim at said...

"Why Wisconsin and who's to blame?

Because Wisconsin voted for Trump.

And blame?

Stupid Trump voters, of course.

You think this report just happens by chance? Now?
Please.

Fabi said...

"Southern whites and Southern blacks share a culture of violence, tribalism, mistrust of strangers, substance abuse, and disdain for manual labor."

Did you see that in a movie or something?

J. Farmer said...

@Howard:

J Farmer: In a way, Mencken predicted it 60-years ago.

Haha. Very true. As the country has become more democratic (e.g. direct election of Senators), it has become more divisive and dysfunctional. The inherent contradiction of the American model is how to reconcile individual human rights and consensual government. Jon Stuart Mill referred to democracy as the "tyranny of the majority."

J. Farmer said...

@Fabi:

Did you see that in a movie or something?

There is actually a good amount of cultural history supportive of that statement. I mentioned several books in previous comments but will reproduce them here:

Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell
Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Fischer
Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South by Grady McWhiney
Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America by Jim Webb

Sam L. said...

Who's to blame? Who's to BLAME? WHITE PEOPLE. OH SO OBVIOUSLY. Who else could it be?

tim in vermont said...

Herrnstein and Murry predicted the rise of Trump and edging towards totalitarianism

Yeah, because people who want the government to leave them alone are where totalitarianism comes from. There are idiots in our body politic, no doubt. The vast majority of them want the government to have more and more power. They are called Democrats.

tim in vermont said...

That's why people think these guys are paid trolls, nobody could be that lacking in self awareness. Howard, here is an idea. Why not try mindfulness, try looking at your inner dialog and asking yourself why you may be thinking this or that. It is a remarkably powerful way of being, and not as hard as it sounds, unless you are really beggared in the IQ department. It would keep you from thinking stupid stuff like that. Unless of course you are a paid troll, in which case, carry on!

mockturtle said...

J. Farmer, I've read two of the books you listed: Born Fighting and Albion's Seed. I did not arrive at quite the same conclusions that you did. Since I have ancestors from all of Albion, I don't have a bias. The Scots-Irish were fiercely independent and willing to fight for their independence. Aversion to work? Most of them worked pretty hard growing tobacco and trying to live in an inhospitable land. And yes, sometimes spending more money on a hound than on a house.

The genteel British put much store in record-keeping, civil responsibility and self-improvement. They were a social folk and lived in towns and cities rather than the hills and 'hollers'.

In my visits to the South I have found kindness and hospitality among the Scots-Irish as well as from the other southerners. They are more civilized, by far, in the true meaning of the word, than most people of the north.

J. Farmer said...

@mockturtle:

In my visits to the South I have found kindness and hospitality among the Scots-Irish as well as from the other southerners.

Remember, nobody is talking about "southerners" writ large living in America today, but the social habits of certain cultural forebearers. The argument is that much of the south was settled by the mostly hill people of Scotland and Northern England while the lowlands were dominated by the Anglo-Saxons. Hill people were much more dependent on herding than the traditional agrarianism of the lowlands.

mockturtle said...

J. Farmer, my 'hill people' ancestors were tobacco farmers in the Asheville area of Appalachia. Most of my English ancestors settled in the New England colonies and were never in the south. My Scots-Irish forbears came in through Virginia.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"racist police chief like Harold Breier"

Jeez, r/v: Breier's been gone and deader than a doornail for a long time now and you're still blaming him?

Do I get to blame Frank Ziegler for the fact that Milwaukee has so many socialist noodleheads?

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Rehajm: "They've hidden the raw data."

Yep. Forget about it, Jake. It's the Huffington Post. Fake "news"

J. Farmer said...

@mockturtle:

I don't see how anything you have said is relevant to anything. Revisit Albion's Seed. If you wish, I can dig the book out from wherever it's been placed and get specific quotes for you. And again, the same argument is made in McWhiney's Cracker CultureL, particularly in the prologue by Forrest McDonald, also an historian of the American South. That book I have more readily available and can provide you with extensive quotations if you are so inclined. Here's a sample from the prologue:

"Observers employed almost the exact terms and phrases in depicting the Scots, specially the Highlanders, the were used in Describing the Irish. Called by contemporaries up until nearly the end of the eighteen century 'indolent,' 'dilatory,' and noted 'for their remarkable Laziness,' Scots were 'averse to industry, never working but from necessity.' They were, like the Irish, neither thrifty nor prudent. The writer who claimed the Irish 'feared work more than danger' could just as well have been describing the Scots."

Gahrie said...

Jon Stuart Mill referred to democracy as the "tyranny of the majority."

I said the same thing to my U.S. History classes today and followed it up with democracy is three wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for lunch.

Stephen said...

Read Evicted (about Milwaukee housing) for part of the answer.

rhhardin said...

@Howard, look at the end of Scott Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JiOz3EFArM

He's been reading my comments perhaps.