July 27, 2017

"The elders — who effectively served as the family’s 'panchayat,' or village council — decided that justice should be served as revenge."

"They instructed the victim’s brother, who is also about 16, to rape the teenage sister of the attacker in return for his crime, Ahsan Younis, head of the Multan city police, told The Washington Post."
So the 16-year-old brother followed suit, assaulting the teenage girl in his family’s home and effectively carrying out what Younis called a “revenge rape.”

Two rapes, within two days, all in one extended family. It turns out the first assailant’s father is a brother of the second assailant’s grandfather....

Authorities ordered the arrests of 29 people — all members of the extended family.... Family members admitted to police that the second rape was ordered as retaliation for the first one. But they asserted that the decision was a consensual one between the two families.

79 comments:

David Begley said...

Coming to America.

Jim Clay said...

They are barbarians who haven't even figured out that justice should be meted out on the malefactor, not third parties.

Mark said...

Zia set Pakistan back not decades, but centuries. His Islamization of the country is starting to yield it's awful fruit.

70 years of independence come August 15 and Jinnah would be killed by a rioting mob for blasphemy today. I bet even he would regret his insistence on dividing Pakistan from India, having see what his whiskey-drinking dreams.

Drago said...

Remember, the left would have you believe this culture is not just equal to ours, but superior.

Sebastian said...

Sad to hear they have a rape culture just like US college campuses. Catherine Lhamon must be looking for a job; maybe she can help.

Anyway, tit-for-tat feud-settling is as old as humanity, violation of women, for the greater good you know, nearly as old. But of course the one culture that has taken any steps to end the subjection of women is irredeemably sexist, no doubt due to centuries of white supremacy.

gspencer said...

AA, are we permitted to criticize Islam?

hawkeyedjb said...

"Coming to America." Hey, diversity is our strength. Our society will benefit from different perspectives on male-female relationships.

Curious George said...

The future must not belong to those who slander the panchayat.

Paul said...

Ah... Muslim 'eye for an eye' stuff.

Just shows you how barbaric their religion is.

Ralph L said...

They're all first cousins, once removed, twice raped.

buwaya said...

This is not Zia. This is not even Islam. I doubt even ISIS or Al Qaeda or the Taliban would defend this; or rather, all those guys would be among the first to object, as it is not in the books that they really do try to live by. In spite of all the terrible things in these books, this particular terrible thing is not.

Rather, this is folk, tribal stuff. The Ur-culture of those people. This sort of thing would have been going on constantly for the last, well, thousand years probably. The only reason its being reported is because it is being reported, telecoms and education have entered the villages. Its a bit like the antique English custom of wife-selling (see "Mayor of Casterbridge", Thomas Hardy, but a real thing).

Michael K said...

Britain imported millions of these villagers.

Chain immigration is what the Muslims want here.

brylun said...

Where's Inga to defend Islam?

Fernandinande said...

"Authorities ordered the arrests of 29 people — all members of the ..."
tribe.

Trumpit said...

In America, the convicted rapist may be raped in prison, or face other kinds of violence. This allegedly civilized country needs to do a lot more to protect prisoners from violence no matter that it might satisfy the desire for revenge from the rabble or victim's family.

buwaya said...

Its a bit like, for instance, the ancient Pathan custom (and a fairly consistent theme through the Middle East) of homosexual pederasty or ephebophilia. This is an ancient thing. Its definitely not Muslim, but its extent, for the most part, overlaps much of the Muslim world.

The Taliban made a great show of suppressing this, in its early days, precisely because it was not Islamic.

The objection to Islam on the grounds of its homophobia is a bit hard to reconcile with the ubiquity of homosexuality in those parts, in its worst forms especially. People are complicated.

buwaya said...

If you are going to import a people, it is prudent to know what it is you are importing. Islam is not just Islam, it comes with all the particulars of the people who espouse it. And this applies to non-Islamic peoples as well.
Islamic peoples differ not just in their particular flavor of Islam but their underlying culture. Ahmadi Muslims from Pakistan are not at all like Kashmiri or Pathan Muslims from Pakistan.

AlbertAnonymous said...

So the council just gets to decide the young girl needs to be raped as the guy's punishment? Nice.

I'm kind of surprised the council didn't decide that the girl needed to be raped BY THE COUNCIL ... you know in the interests of justice and all

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

In America, the convicted rapist may be raped in prison, or face other kinds of violence

The fuck does that have to do with the rape of an innocent third party who didn't do shit other than be female and a child?

What an offensive, moronic comment.

Mark said...

"Islamic peoples differ not just in their particular flavor of Islam but their underlying culture. Ahmadi Muslims from Pakistan are not at all like Kashmiri or Pathan Muslims from Pakistan."

Vital point you made here. One few who don't understand the area can understand. There are cultures and regions there I would gladly have as neighbors - and those I'm happy live across the world from me. A broad brush throws both baby and bathwater.

While I hear you that it's not Zia, IMO he changed the trajectory of the country and really advanced the use of Islam/tradition as a political tool. The crass appeals to Islam by politicians [esp at low levels] seemed to grow exponentially when I spent time there and has only continued since.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Maybe instead of ordering the rape of an innocent girl, the council should order the perpetrator to be raped ... at least then the punishment is meted out against the perpetrator.

of course, whoever they order to perform the rape will then be executed as a homosexual...

Luke Lea said...

All in the family.

Owen said...

Did the rapee consent to this revenge-ritual?

Guildofcannonballs said...

Has Whoopi let us know if this is rape-rape? We might be getting all worked up over nothing if it's just rape, not rape-rape.

Gahrie said...

This is an example of patriarchal oppression...and the feminists not only will be silent, they will support allowing this people to immigrate.

David-2 said...

Too bad that girl didn't have Obamacare to fix her up. Bring her here! With anyone in her family with which she has a "bona fide relationship"!

"America's refugee population had an uninsured rate of 49%. Then Obamacare happened."

Gahrie said...

In America, the convicted rapist may be raped in prison, or face other kinds of violence

yeah..that's exactly the same thing.......

JohnAnnArbor said...

Pakistan has a Nobel prizewinner in physics.

Which they ignore because he was an Amahdi Muslim--the wrong kind in the fundamentalist era now. They even chiseled "Muslim" off his gravestone.

rhhardin said...

Human rights is a Western idea. Tribes deal in tribe rules.

buwaya said...

There have indeed been cases, in India I believe, where "the council" have passed sentences of gang-rape by "the council" as a form of ritual vengeance similar to this one.

And these things just come to our attention, and only sometimes, because they seem especially lurid. There is a great deal more that is simply bizarre, foreign beyond our normal experience.

There's a lot of very odd stuff under the hood of any culture, invisible to the casual traveller in the cosmopolitan cities.

Char Char Binks said...

Respect all rape cultures.

Unknown said...

Hey, where's Chuck to demand that Trump import all of these people or be impeached for being a bigot against peaceful Islam? Inga? Sunsong? The rest of the leftist gang?

I don't think even the Nazi's would have done this. I mean, they wouldn't have left the perpetrator alone and called raping his sister punishment for him, not that they would have cared a great deal about raping the sister (as long as she was not an Aryan, of course).

So these guys are below the Nazis, but we must respect them. Bollocks, I say.

--Vance

HoodlumDoodlum said...

All cultures are equally valid.
It's cultural imperialism to apply your own standards to other cultures.
It's xenophobia to feel disgust at different customs and mores, and it's rank bigotry to use that disgust to argue that your own values are in any way superior.

I mean, what about the Crusades? Checkmate, bigot.

Biotrekker said...

This is typical shame culture (some would say honor/shame, but, to me, it's pseudo-honor) where there is group responsibility and only the group (family/village/etc) matters, not the individual, who has no rights outside the group.

Owen said...

Buwaya: "...odd stuff under the hood...". Yes indeed. National Geographic and the New Yorker don't really fill the gap. Your insights are most welcome.

I ask again, in all sincerity: did the rapee consent to this revenge-ritual?

I hope my question approximates the real (and irreconcilable) tension between rights that belong to the individual and rights that are claimed by a group. Acting through a representative. Speaking to a chosen publicist.

Funny how that works.

Bob Ellison said...

No true Scotsman would rape his neighbor's sister because his neighbor raped his own sister.

Ralph L said...

did the rapee consent to this revenge-ritual?
I imagine it makes her unmarriable, which could be a blessing.

Michael K said...

"Islamic peoples differ not just in their particular flavor of Islam but their underlying culture"

I have a suspicion that the Arab culture is infecting Islam in Indonesia and Malaysia. The Malays were anti-Chinese for mostly economic reasons. Now, it seems to be getting more about Islam.

Kilcullen's book described some of this in East Timor.

Owen said...

Ralph L: "...which could make her unmarri[gea?]ble." Maybe. No hope that nothing worse than spinsterhood awaits this "soiled vessel." Those more familiar with this [toxic patriarchal?] culture should chime in.

But until they do, with compelling evidence of great benefit at least to the rapee and to others in her tribal culture, my strong hypothesis is, this poor woman got F**ked.

Clyde said...

Another reason to curtail Muslim immigration, at least for a few centuries until they can catch up to Western civilization.

Clyde said...

Mark said...
"Islamic peoples differ not just in their particular flavor of Islam but their underlying culture. Ahmadi Muslims from Pakistan are not at all like Kashmiri or Pathan Muslims from Pakistan."

Vital point you made here. One few who don't understand the area can understand. There are cultures and regions there I would gladly have as neighbors - and those I'm happy live across the world from me. A broad brush throws both baby and bathwater.


We have all the "babies" we need. Frankly, I don't see anything positive in allowing any immigration at all from the Muslim world. I'm not saying boot out all the ones that are here, but I'm saying that there are plenty of Muslim countries in the world, and if they want to move around among them, it's fine with me, but I don't want them coming here with their backward ways.

TestTube said...

This is Tribalism. An individual who was not involved in the original crime was made to exact punishment on another individual not involved in the original crime.

Because they are not seen as individuals. They are seen as parts of two tribes.

Ironclad said...

The same culture in the region allows young boys to be sold "to entertain" - but only to the point of puberty. Somehow it's unacceptable to touch any females but boys "without hair" are fair game. And the flip side of that is that in war - boys with any hair are killed while those without go free.

Yeah. Bring them on for diversity!

themightypuck said...

In pre-1066 Britain (Wessex at least), you'd have to pay the weregild for raping a virgin plus an additional third to her protector and another third to the King (not sure why he gets to wet his beak here). By the time of Henry VIII or so, they'd just kill you (list of cap crimes: high treason, including counterfeiting coin, petty treason, murder, rape, piracy, arson of a dwelling house or barn with corn in it, highway robbery, embezzling ones master’s goods, horse theft, robbing churches and robbing a person in a dwelling house.)

Tarrou said...

We will hear about something similar, probably in Michigan, within the next five years.

Ralph L said...

Owen, I wasn't sure how to spell marriageable, but I just discovered that marriable is a synonym, when I didn't know it was a real word when I used it.

I said a blessing because I hope she'll leave her nasty family, and if she's lucky, she won't have to "come upon the town."

JPS said...

"But they asserted that the decision was a consensual one between the two families."

Well, that's different then. For a minute there I thought this was sickening.

Hagar said...

Mohammed Ali Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru were both English-speaking (as their first language), single-malt Scotch connoisseurs, Temple lawyers (as was Gandhi), and respectively fiercely maintained that Muslims could live in peace with Hindus (Jinnah) and that Hindus could live in peace with Muslims (Nehru).
Nehru on several occasions risked his life by getting out in front of rampaging Hindu mobs seeking Muslims to kill and yelling at them to stop it.

narayanan said...

these tribes also often settle the feud (close the books) by marrying the rapist to the victim.

narayanan said...

there would have been a double wedding if this had not become public?

Owen said...

Ralph L: thanks. I wasn't trying to diss your spelling there. Not an area of orthography with which I can claim any familiarity.

I share your hope. What irks me most is the disparity between costs and rewards. This poor girl (and her Designated Rapist) are forced to take on all the pain and shame and violation because they are Actors In A Tribal Drama.

The fat complacent tribal elders write the script and applaud the performance; but do not pay the price.

Skippy Tisdale said...

Animals.

David said...

"you'd have to pay the weregild for raping a virgin plus an additional third to her protector and another third to the King (not sure why he gets to wet his beak here)."

Not sure? He's the King. That's the point of being King.

exhelodrvr1 said...

The nature of Islam makes it very easy to incorporate it/morph it into involvement in this type of activity. Honor killings, execution of gays, excessive punishments for theft, etc.

buwaya said...

Jinnah did not know with what fire he was playing.
He was, as said, a British-assimilated, educated Indian Muslim.

Worse, he was either an Ismaili or a Shi'ite by heritage, which are not exactly popular among the mass of the Sunni peoples of Pakistan.

The places he was separating out were something entirely out of his understanding.

Even the 1/2 of the old British Indian Army that formed the backbone of the new state of Pakistan (and still does) was something he did not understand. These were still made up largely of the "martial races".

buwaya said...

"Honor killings"

Are also quite common among non-Muslim peoples of the ME/South Asia.
There have been many documented cases among Christian Arabs and Yazidi Kurds, besides all the Hindu mothers-in-law killing their unsatisfactory daughters-in-law.

"execution of gays"

This is interesting, because, for the most part, it happens only episodically. The more typical situation is an amazing tolerance for what in the West would be extreme depravity. Free access to little boys (and drugs) were why depraved old Europeans would vacation or live in Morocco.

For that matter, that's why a good number, like the great Science Fiction writer Arthur C Clarke, lived in non-Muslim Ceylon/Sri Lanka.

Ralph L said...

not sure why he gets to wet his beak here
At least he doesn't get to wet his other beak, i.e. droit du seigneur.

There was a fictional scene in "The Source" IIRC, in which a Jewish father kills his Hellenized son for displaying his reconstructed foreskin.

Trumpit said...

In America, the convicted rapist may be raped in prison, or face other kinds of violence

"The fuck does that have to do with the rape of an innocent third party who didn't do shit other than be female and a child?

What an offensive, moronic comment."

Please Google: Florida Inmate Killed 36 Hours After Being Placed With Notoriously Violent Cellmate

Listen dummy: There's nothing you can do to help that unfortunate girl in Pakistan except berate Muslims. But there is something we, as a society, can do to stop what happened in Florida, and happens far too often in the prison system in this so-called civilized country. When you go to jail for a misdemeanor charge, you shouldn't have to fear for you life; the bad food is enough to suffer.

Big Mike said...

Trumpit's disgust is misplaced. There is nothing wrote that is not demonstrably true.

Big Mike said...

... nothing buwaya wrote ...

orthodoc said...

Re: Florida Inmate Killed 36 Hours After Being Placed With Notoriously Violent Cellmate

Can you explain how the killing of a white inmate by a black lifer in 2012 is related in any way to the rape of an innocent girl? The lifer in question, Shawn “Jiggaman” Rogers, was looking for revenge for Trayvon Martin.

I mean, seriously. How on earth do you make this connection?

William Chadwick said...

That's such a great culture, isn't it, folks? But don't judge, because Crusades.

Drago said...

Trumpit really does not want to discuss the topic at hand.

Now why on earth would a leftist who, along with all the other leftists, have adopted islamist belief as the one religious belief that cannot be questioned want to change the subject?

Oh. Right.

Sorry Trumpit.

This is what you and yours desperately want imported to the west. This is what you and yours tells us is superior to our culture (which your comment above amply demonstrates).

Why not own what you desperately seek?

Drago said...

FGM occurs in the US by members of this same religion.

Right here. In the US.

And the left doesn't care because they have bigger fish to fry (like bakers).

Bubba said...

Somali and Egyptian mommies in the US, together with their other daughters, sisters, aunties, and cousins (all female) chop off their daughter's clitorises. The women hold them down, kicking and screaming, and chop them up with household knives and scissors. Right now. Today. In Maine and Minnesota.

They do it to suppress their daughter's sexuality and keep them deadened to sexual pleasure. As Somali/Egyptian women know, chopping of the nasty bits is the only thing that keeps Somali/Egyptian girls from fornicating like rabbits and dishonoring their family, clan and tribe.

Think about that whenever you see those touching liberal stories on TV about migrants and the wonderful diversity they bring. They all do this to their daughters.

This is no secret. There are in-service trainings by professional associations on the "problem" and the number of girls "at risk". The cops know it. The nurses know it. The doctors know it. The school administrators know it.

EVERYONE knows it, and they all keep it secret.

Why on earth should any liberal be shocked about rape in Pakistan when cl!t-chopping is a commonplace right here in America?

bgates said...

You're going to charge them now? And what about people who were led to believe that their panchayat would be viewed in a positive light, and treated with respect, with accommodations of the need to recover family honor and so forth. These people are in the middle of doing something to their families. It's horrible to summarily charge them with a felony. It doesn't matter whether they are mentally ill or not, because the culture embarked on a program and people built their lives around the culture. It's similar to Obamacare. If it had never been enacted, that would be one thing. But it's been around for a while. You can't just say let's start over. You have to start where you are.

buwaya said...

Actually, prison reform in the US is extremely difficult because of the legal complications of establishing discipline among the prisoners.

This concern for prisoners rights - note, not the prisoners who are victims of the other prisoners, but of the prisoners who are victims of the guards, or the system - is an exceedingly left-wing enterprise.

In many cases it seems that what it will take to establish discipline is a totalizing system such as that of California's Pelican Bay. Which is a regular target of Democrat/leftist opprobrium.

They behave atrociously because they are permitted to, out of fear of the US left wing.

Bad Lieutenant said...

bgates said...
You're going to charge them now? ...

OMFG bgates wins the MF thread so hard.

themightypuck said...

I'm very much in favor of making things nicer for good prisoners. The death penalty would help a lot here. Let them have Xboxes. Give them VR environments. Just don't let violent criminals walk the streets. Which brings up the other problem with prison reform. If you want less people in prison, who do you let out and who do you not take in. If someone could figure out a way to reduce prison pops without increasing crime, they'd do it in a heartbeat. If politicians know one thing, it is that they won't get re-elected if crime goes up.

Ken B said...

Bgates, nice.

Robert Cook said...

"Remember, the left would have you believe this culture is not just equal to ours, but superior."

Drago, you are consistent in posting nonsense, but this is particularly ridiculous.

Drago said...

Cookie: "Drago, you are consistent in posting nonsense, but this is particularly ridiculous."

Oh right.

This is the part where we are supposed to airbrush away the tidal wave of leftist hatred towards Western Civilization and pretend it never happened.

Well, I'll give this to you cookie, you are consistent to an exemplary degree in the practice of standard marxist tactics.

Of course, you hilarious denials of this reality is overwhelmed by the screeches of your fellow leftists.

Sorry. 20 years ago you might have been able to fudge that one while pursuing your own October Surprise conspiracy theories. But we are far from down the road now and the left has made clear what it seeks.

Beginning with full alignment with the islamists.

Rt1 Rebel said...

"Did the rapee consent to this revenge-ritual?"

If she did, it wouldn't be rape. Or at least not rape-rape.

Mary Beth said...

"But they asserted that the decision was a consensual one between the two families."

Really? The whole families? Everyone?

SukieTawdry said...

Are there any cultures in which this kind of thing goes on that aren't inherently Muslim?

buwaya said...

Pre-Islamic Pakistan/Afghanistan must have been an interesting place.
The (few) leftover pre-Islamic pagan cultures have many odd customs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash_people#Customs

buwaya said...

This is a case out of India - where the village council did the judicial raping.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2014/01/indian-woman-gang-raped-as-punishment-201412355131324741.html

I don't know if tis village (in West Bengal) was Muslim or not; being in West Bengal (vast majority Hindu)its possible, as Muslims are the largest minority group.

You hear about this sort of thing from time to time. Skim http://www.rantburg.com/ to keep up with all sorts of odd things out of the ME and South Asia.

EMyrt said...

themightypuck said...

"In pre-1066 Britain (Wessex at least), you'd have to pay the weregild for raping a virgin plus an additional third to her protector and another third to the King (not sure why he gets to wet his beak here). By the time of Henry VIII or so, they'd just kill you (list of cap crimes: high treason, including counterfeiting coin, petty treason, murder, rape, piracy, arson of a dwelling house or barn with corn in it, highway robbery, embezzling ones master’s goods, horse theft, robbing churches and robbing a person in a dwelling house.)
7/27/17, 11:34 AM"

Recently saw a statistical analysis of how capital executions may have significantly changed the English gene pool for the better. Shall see if I can find the link.

Rigelsen said...

As buwaya said, you will generally find that many of these strange and sometimes deplorable customs have pre-Islamic origins and are often shared with non-Islamic populations in the same area. The kind of tribal "justice" in the story above would not be unheard of in any honor/shame culture with weak legal regimes and near non-existent notions of individual rights. While it is changing, albeit slowly, you will find many examples of similar "justice" form Hindu and animist parts of the subcontinent as well.

About FGM. FGM is common throughout eastern Africa across religious boundaries, and those cultures that had it didn't let go of it when they became Islamic. The practice is not common across all Muslim cultures. In the Arabian peninsula, for example, you will find FGM still practiced in parts of Yemen and Yemeni emigre populations elsewhere, but no-where else. Similarly, FGM is not practiced among most of the Muslim areas of the Indian subcontinent, but restricted to certain tribal areas.

It doesn't help, of course, that Muslim populations like the Somalis have "adopted" FGM into their version of Islam, making it harder to dislodge. Unfortunately, because Islam has no overall religious authority, there is no one everyone looks up to who can tell them to cut it out. This "egalitarian" feature also makes it hard to fight murderous/terrorist strains of Islam from a religious perspective.