I'm tired of reading things like "President Trump’s astonishing and reckless accusation that he was wiretapped on orders from President Barack Obama should finally be the tipping point in how the country views him and his presidency." (That's E.J. Dionne in The Washington Post.)
From what I've read, "ordered" is the weasel word that allows anti-Trumpsters to make flat statements portraying Trump as out of his mind. But the notorious Trump tweets do not say that Obama "ordered" a wiretapping. They ask if it is "legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president prior to an election?" and refer to what a court had done. Though Trump didn't precisely say this, any "order" came from the court. He then said "President Obama was tapping my phones," which isn't to say that he "ordered" it. I think the story Trump is relying on is that the FISA court granted a warrant (after some funny business to get around a previous denial), not that Obama just "ordered" it. Then, Trump tweeted that Obama had gone "low... to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process." Trump portrays Obama as doing something, not "ordering" it.
Unless the anti-Trumpsters can speak clearly avoid the safety of that word, I will not trust what they say.
March 6, 2017
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311 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 311 of 311"What Obama and his minions (and the Democrats and many in the media) say is likely to be correct, strictly speaking, but fundamentally misleading. In contrast, what Trump says is often incorrect, strictly speaking, but captures the fundamental truth."
The idea that Obama ordered surveillance is just crazy.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there is just no way Obama ordered any surveillance. And by that I mean, he didn't discuss it, he didn't sign any documents, he didn't even imply it.
If it happened at all, it had to have happened without his consent and without his knowledge.
Because if I'm wrong, Obama deserves to be thrown in jail.
Am I right, Obama defenders?
Or does the story change if indeed it turns out Obama had a hand in this?
Mark Levin put together a bunch of quotes from NYT, Guardian, Wash Post, etc. that talk about the monitoring done by multiple agencies of the "suspected Russian ties" and including Trump campaign members. It is a great piece, video on Fox News. Does anyone know if it has been transcribed? So it can be sent to doubting Thomases.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/03/05/levin-delivers-devastating-case-obama-admins-wire-scandal-proof-press-wont-show-455667?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said... [hush][hide comment]
...
BTW, is it just me, or does it seem like DJT should make public the facts that resulted in him tweeting that BHO tapped his phone?
Is that asking too much? Or, is not expecting that asking shamefully too little?
President called for an investigation.
You know how it goes:
"We cannot comment on an ongoing investigation".
Worked for the last eight years.
"You know how it goes:
"We cannot comment on an ongoing investigation".
Worked for the last eight years."
Well, DJT got the cart and horse mixed up, because he already gave us the conclusion.
But, I get your point: his tweets were BS. Everyone knows it. Sure, it's fun pretending he didn't tweet what he tweeted. So,
Carry on.
Stephen, up your game or shorten your comments.
Eric,
I think DJT throwing BHO in jail would be awesome.
And he owes us one.
He promised, as part of his campaign, that HRC would be pursued. But, that was a lie.
So, now it's: Lock Him Up!
"The Tweets are de-stabilizing the Left, the Media and the Democrats."
Oh please. The tweets are energizing the left and Democrats. Trump's insanity is now there for the entire world to see. We love it when Trump does those early morning nutty tweets, it's a gift to the left.
Excellent comment Stephen, well put!
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
Well, DJT got the cart and horse mixed up, because he already gave us the conclusion.
But, I get your point: his tweets were BS. Everyone knows it. Sure, it's fun pretending he didn't tweet what he tweeted. So,
Carry on.
So you are saying that the Trump-Russia connection is based off of nothing.
Good game you lost.
"Trick or Tweet?"
"But have you noticed? While all this head-spinning legal jibber-jabber goes back and forth, the foundation of the false narrative we’ve been hearing since November 8 has vanished. Now that we’re supposed to believe there was no real investigation of Trump and his campaign, what else can we conclude but that there was no real evidence of collusion between the campaign and Russia . . . which makes sense, since Russia did not actually hack the election, so the purported objective of the collusion never existed."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445522/russian-election-hacking-fbi-not-investigating-trump-campaign
Do our spy agencies actually collect intelligence on other countries any more, or are they pretty much doing domestic politics full time now?
Oh please. The tweets are energizing the left and Democrats. Trump's insanity is now there for the entire world to see.
So you thought the right response was to turn your own insanity up to eleven? That's genius.
"are they pretty much doing domestic politics full time now?"
Well, they've pretty much flopped at the foreign stuff and idle hands are the Devil' workshop.
@Stephen,
There is no evidence that Trump's phones were tapped. As best can be determined, the stories on which Trump relies concern a warrant about communications with a Russian bank from a campaign server that may have been located in Philly.
What do you think this is? 1965?
ALL the traffic out of Trump Towers (phones, servers, whatever) comes out of one WAN network "pipe" & it's all TCP/IP traffic by the time it leaves the building, if not from its very inception (I can almost guarantee that TT uses IP phones).
If an intelligence agency was monitoring the TCP/IP data stream out of TT, they were getting traffic on every network device that "talked" to the outside world. There's no distinction between "phone" & "computer" traffic anymore.
@fredor: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html?_r=2 (Ignore the headline, the article says nothing about "Russian"communications. The headline has been changed without comment.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts
https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/03/04/experts-battle-wiretap-get-fisa-warrant-trump-doesnt-prove-455402
Let me see if I understand:
Lefty media (but I repeat myself) reports that "sources" say there were FISA court applications, one denied, one approved, and transcripts where "conversations of Trump campaign 'surrogates' were recorded" speaking to 'Russians'.
Trump tweets about being tapped.
Lefty media (but I repeat myself) reports that Trump is claiming "without any evidence" that he was tapped and "conversations of Trump campaign 'surrogates' were recorded".
OK. So if Trump has "no evidence", then the Media reports based on "sources" had no evidence and are fake news. If the Media reports based on "sources" are good journalism because they count as evidence, then Trump's claims cannot be dismissed as "without evidence".
Media twisting into pretzel shapes...
Stephen said...
You have become a Trump defender.
An Obama voter, intelligent and female, looked at the evidence and came to a conclusion. Blasphemy!
But your defense misses the point, so much so that it feels deliberate.
There are two part of the tweets: one, were Trump's phones ("my phones, as he says in one tweet) tapped and, two, did Obama do something to make that happen.
More parsing. More bad faith.
Both must be true for Trump's tweet to be true.
In your diseased leftist mind.
There is no evidence that Trump's phones were tapped. As best can be determined, the stories on which Trump relies concern a warrant about communications with a Russian bank from a campaign server that may have been located in Philly.
You refuse to accept reality so you make up your own.
There is also no evidence that Obama did anything to effectuate or further whatever surveillance occurred. You seem to suggest that because Trump doesn't use the word order he isn't leveling an accusation at Obama. That's not persuasive. Of course you are right that the word order does not appear. So what? Every single tweet actually uses wire tap or wire tapping as an active verb and uses Obama or the President as the subject of the verb. Or as you put it, Obama is accused of doing something--wire tapping.
Obama had numerous people put under surveillance including reporters and now political opponents. There are many stories about them. It is fun watching leftists defend an authoritarian regime like Obama's. In one post Trump has been caught on surveillance colluding with the Russians on the next there was no surveillance. Brilliant.
So if Obama did nothing? Suppose if the warrant was sought by lower level federal investigators operating independently of him and without his knowledge? And as you suggest, was ordered by the court. In what sense would Trump's claim then be true? Not in any ordinary language sense. And that is obviously what Comey is trying to get the DOJ to say.
If he didn't order it personally he knew about it because his administration had a pattern of electronic surveillance.
Put another way, on its face this is an outrageous slander, by a person with a demonstrated lack of regard for the truth, which has been directly denied by President Obama, James Clapper, and James Comey. No one has come forward--or leaked--to suggest that the claim is true.
Professor Althouse, why invest so much energy in a twisted and unpersuasive defense of such doubtful conduct?
HAAHAHAHAHA! Watch the left squirm as it defends the surveillance of political opponents. If they had their way Ann would be on her way to re-education camp. You are scum.
"The only thing that gives orders is balls. You got that? Balls. "
This was the sole excuse for Obama ORDERING his NSA to hand over all tapped info on Trump's Tower communications that were routinely taken and held in the NSA Bldg on Thomas Street in Manhattan.This lead to the 1-4-2017 NSA security team's shoot out with a CIA infiltration team breaking into that facility seeking that info. Admiral Michael S. Rodgers had been fired by Obama as head of NSA for telling Trump about this wire tapping order.
Buwaya, traditionalguy, you and others have repeatedly been referencing this shootout as if it was something that happened. This seems a little insane to me. Has anyone got some sites or links on this?
The NSA is a military operation. The Commander-in-Chief has the authority to fire the people there that Obama used against the USA and Israel. So those are the guys who are in panic mode today. They need to come clean to Trump like Adml. Rogers did. If they do not, Rogers can spot them for DJT who will fire them.
But first DJT needed time to gather the information from the ones to be fired on their contacts.Which is why Sessions move was such bad timing. Now DJT has to dump it all out on the table, ready or not.
Yancey Ward said...
I have predicted that before the year is out, Twitter will try to ban Trump under pressure from the Left.
3/6/17, 1:26 PM
Then he should just move to https://gab.ai/auth/login
PB: "Well, DJT got the cart and horse mixed up, because he already gave us the conclusion"
Yes, a lefty just wrote that. Without irony.
We have spent the last 9 months being told by the lefties that DJT is a traitor and has colluded with the Russians and that there is proof (Proof I tellya!) in all the intercepts.
We are now being told by these very same lefties that no one should jump to any conclusions prior to completing whatever investigations are active or will be active.
Let me take a shot at rephrasing the lefts the position: It is "Weapons Free" time for all lefties to accuse DJT of everything under the sun but DJT and the republicans better not get so uppity that they believe they can claim anything without presenting ironclad proof for any assertion.
Sorry lefties, but in case you didn't notice (and apparently you didn't), the republicans opted for the non-unilateral disarmament candidate. So now you are going to have live with the rules that you the left created.
I realize those lefty-created rules suck. But in fairness, so do the lefties.
Well, we've certainly, clearly, thoroughly disgusted this whole matter ad nauseum. What a waste of time.
The only thing that matters is what the voters think. Do they think that a candidate for president had his phone tapped? Do they think that is a bad thing or a good thing?
Given his track record I'd be loath to bet against Trump.
Bob Ellison: "Stephen, up your game or shorten your comments"
Yikes.
To paraphrase the Senator from "The Gladiator", once again Bob Ellisons lightest touch commands respect.
Brevity and lethality.
A powerful combination.
Roy Lofquist: "Given his track record I'd be loath to bet against Trump"
The key here is whether or not many in the middle who "loath" the personal Trump will determine that capturing and disseminating intercepted/tapped info against Trump is a "bridge too far" with obvious potential consequences for the left in 2018.
I have predicted that before the year is out, Twitter will try to ban Trump under pressure from the Left.
I'm sure they would love to, but based on their recent couple quarters they really can't afford to have the president of the United States saying "I've decided to use Gab. You can follow me there."
That would be the end of Twitter and even someone as dense as Dorsey realizes it.
It does make one suspicious that former DNI James Clapper has come out and denied there was any wiretap. Why should someone at his level bother to deny it, if it is false?
Well, if the past is any indication, it's simply because Clapper enjoys lying.
Re CIA-NSA shootout -
There was a shooting incident that day, at the time and date claimed -
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/31-year-old-man-shot-east-side-victim-lips-sealed-article-1.2932778
http://www.boweryboogie.com/2017/01/breaking-shooting-essex-street-morning/
RT (Russian news agency) and Liveleak both have claimed it as an intra NSA-CIA affair.
It is possible Trump gained knowledge of FISA warrants/targets because he now has a few of his people in the DOJ. If it turns out that the Obama admin has weaponized the intel services as well as the FISA courts to go after political opponents, somebody needs to go to jail.
Roy,
Yes, that boils it down perfectly.
Either Trump is wrong about the FISA requests, or he is not. If he is right, the public will judge the matter, and I am almost 100% sure that a good majority will find such monitoring of the opposition to be inappropriate. I can be particularly sure of this because of the paucity of real evidence that the Russians even hacked the DNC, much less hacked the election in cahoots with Trump and/or his surrogates. Had such warrants produced anything that justified their applications and approval, you would have already read it in the NYTimes, and yet everything is still innuendo 4 months later.
If Trump is wrong about the surveillance, he will pay a heavy price. I suspect, given the denials issued by Obama and his lackeys that Trump is mostly correct about in the tweets.
Drago: Are you kidding me?
"lifelong republican" Chuck was reveling in them! He was gloriously reveling in them!! He was using them to taunt anyone who voted for Trump. Oh my gosh, it just might have been the very best day of his entire "lifelong republican" life.
Thanks, Drago. I will now commence lmao uproariously at Precision Chuck.
I often say that if it weren't for fallacious arguments (chiefly the tu quoque, the ad hominem and the argument from pity), "liberals" would have no arguments at all. I would expand that to say "If it weren't for weasel words, 'liberals' would be mute." And wouldn't that be a nice, quiet world?
Bravo Stephens. I'm baffled by Althouse's love affair with Trump. Does he remind her of someone in her past? Or a character in a beloved novel?
"Or a character in a beloved novel?"
Dunno, but Trump seems like a truly American type, a cross between Jay Gatsby, Charles Foster Kane, and some others here and there - though it would have taken quite an imagination to create a believable someone like this. Reality has more imagination than writers of fiction.
A strange and complex man.
Crap, Drago, now I'm gonna have to check-read every dumb thing I write here. But thanks.
Obama never personally ordered Lois Lerner, in writing, to abuse the IRS' power for partisan gain/ends. Therefore there is no "IRS scandal" and anyone talking about the Leftist abuse of the IRS/government power in that case is a kook.
Obama never personally ordered the NSA nor FBI nor CIA, in writing, to surveil the Trump campaign organization...
What is so baffling about free people admiring/loving a rare intelligent leader who wins. The only downside of those guys, such as A. Jackson, N. Bonaparte, G. Patton and D. Trump is an inherent lack of humility that comes with winning so much.
But Trump has Mr. Humility himself in Pence to balance him out. And he has Conway to admire him whenever he acts even slightly humble.
EXCLUSIVE: FBI ‘Granted FISA Warrant’ Covering Trump Camp’s Ties To Russia
By Louise Mensch|10:18 pm, November 7, 2016
[Published on the eve before election day.]
"Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community have confirmed to Heat Street that the FBI sought, and was granted, a FISA court warrant in October, giving counter-intelligence permission to examine the activities of ‘U.S. persons’ in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia..."
https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/
Who is Louise Mensch and why should she have been the one who broke this story with such detail?
Some pertinent context:
— Louise Mensch (@LouiseMensch) October 14, 2016
"...If you vote Trump you are the scum of the earth, a colluder in racism and 'deplorable' is too good for you. This means everyone."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/10/15/murdochs-louise-mensch-everyone-who-votes-trump-is-scum-of-the-earth/
Washington Examiner 12/10/16
Heat Street editor: US should drop bombs over Russian hacks
'Louise Mensch, founder and editor of Dow Jones' Heat Street website, argued Saturday that alleged Russian hacks of US politicians amounted to an "act of war" and that the US ought to reply with hacks, sanctions and bombs.
"I want precision bombing raids. Bank hacks. Massive cyber war. Russia is a paper bear cub let [America's president] show Putin what alpha means," she wrote on Twitter.'
"...The British former politician also argued that Congress ought to prohibit President-elect Donald Trump from taking office and hand the White House instead to Vice President-elect Mike Pence. She further called for the FBI to arrest Trump for having insulted American intelligence services publicly."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heat-street-editor-us-should-drop-bombs-over-russian-hacks/article/2609357
'She also popped up in John Podesta’s hacked emails where she suggested an idea for an ad for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2017/01/louise-mensch-no-longer-leading-heatstreet-233235
'...Mensch sees the Trump-Russia story as part of a much broader conspiracy, as she later made clear in a Twitter exchange with National Review online editor Charles Cooke on February 24, 2017. "I absolutely believe that Andrew Breitbart was murdered by Putin, just as the founder of RT was murdered by Putin," Mensch tweeted.
"Why?" Cooke wondered.
Mensch tweeted a link to a story she'd written in August, arguing that Trump Adviser Steve Bannon "Is the Link Between Donald Trump and Nigel Farage," and pointing to praise for Putin from both Trump and Farage.
Cooke didn't buy it. "You actually believe this?"'
http://www.weeklystandard.com/kristol-discusses-trumps-wiretap-claim-gop-congress-on-washington-journal/article/2007103
I don't believe Mensch made this story up. But, like the appearance of the infamous golden shower dossier, she decided to publish a plausible but probably unverified story because she wanted to believe was true. Contra the then recent revelation of Hilary's emails on Wiener's computer, a "November Surprise" on the eve of the election that might well the effect of damaging Trump
Mensch certainly has a record reflecting considerable intelligence and talent, but by clear evidence is ALSO NOT THE FULL SHILLING.
She did her part for the cause. Who gave the material to her for her story? Probably the likes of Sidney Blumenthal.
Round up the usual suspects.
It's his way of saying, "I'm not going to reject it for you. Come out of hiding and reject it yourself."
It's sort of like asking for someone's resignation so you can say you didn't fire them.
Honestly, I do love the NYTimes pivot from "Trump is in bed with the Ruskies, all this intel, including wiretaps, etc, prove it!" in January to "Tump's assertion that his campaign and aides were under government surveillance is nuts and without any shred of proof!" today.
I mean, in some cases the articles are written by the same groups! Either they were making it up then or there's SOME evidence that Trump's assertion isn't wholly without merit, right?
Or does logic not matter 'cause we're having too much fun attacking Trump? Ruling, Chuck?
readering: "Bravo Stephens. I'm baffled by Althouse's love affair with Trump. Does he remind her of someone in her past? Or a character in a beloved novel?"
The slightly more clever of the leftists, realizing that their position on Russia/Trump/Hacking/Collusion has been completely undermined and resulted in MSM journalists now publicly in print disavowing their earlier reporting, have decided it would probably be more productive to return to attempting to insult/shame Althouse for having the temerity to actually notice the nonsensical positions being adopted by the left and "lifelong republicans" vis a vis Trump.
Congratulations readering, you're at the top of the Delta pledge class.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKS0GVvoE9I
Louise Mensch also interviewed/debated Vox Day.
Worth a look. Two odd characters, with vastly different POVs, treating each other with considerable civility -
https://heatst.com/world/alt-right-anti-semitism-debate-vox-day-vs-louise-mensch/
But that was fairly early in last years' election campaign. It seems that Mensch went postal by October.
Re Trump, the story; and the US national story of the moment -
We are living through a vast and fascinating novel, literature written by reality.
The facts of the day, every day, since the summer of 2015, are better by far than any TV drama series or Tom Wolfe novel.
Andrew McCarthy, continuing to do yeomans work: "http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445522/russian-election-hacking-fbi-not-investigating-trump-campaign
snip: "But still, the media and Democrats have always had a serious vulnerability here — one they’ve never acknowledged because they’ve been too swept away by the political success of the fantasy narrative. It is this: At a certain point, if compelling evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to steal the election did not materialize, the much more interesting question becomes “How did the government obtain all this information that has been leaked to the media to prop up the story?”
The most plausible answer to that question: The Obama administration, through the Justice Department and the FBI, was investigating the associates of the opposition party’s presidential nominee, and perhaps even the nominee himself, during the campaign. Otherwise, what explanation can there be for all of the investigative information — much of it classified, and thus illegal to disclose — that has been funneled to the press?"
Lefties/Dems/"lifelong republicans" hardest hit.
@Drago, shaming works on their fellow progs. It doesn't work on people who think and act independently. This is because progs are weak-minded and easily bullied by other progs, and utterly incapable of independent reasoning. If some prog told the rest of them that the ideal state could be achieved if they went bungee jumping without the cord attached, then sunsong, PB, reasoning, and Stephen would be right in line.
If I appoint my Marxist soul mates, I don't have to actually ask them to do anything. They know without asking, with my tacit approval. The word itself, "Trump," is the marching order.
Big Mike: "@Drago, shaming works on their fellow progs. It doesn't work on people who think and act independently."
This is understood. But the mere fact that an individual is a voice-actuated prog automaton means the prog is unable to discern that fact.
Which is why the lefties keep using the same tactics to no avail and are incapable of modifying those tactics as well as constantly contradicting themselves.
The lefts "OODA" loop is missing an "O" and a "D"....and possible the other "O" as well....
If some prog told the rest of them that the ideal state could be achieved if they went bungee jumping without the cord attached, then sunsong, PB, reasoning, and Stephen would be right in line.
3/6/17, 3:24 PM
Actually, if someone told sunsong that the ideal state could be achieved if PB, reasoning and Stephen went bungee jumping without a cord, she'd be right in line.
Progressive know that a few eggs have to be broken to make an omelet. They think they'll be the ones breaking the eggs, not the eggs themselves. They're just fine with other people's suffering.
Think of how surprised many of Lenin and Stalin's comrades must have been to find themselves facing a firing squad or boarding a train for Siberia.
"Unless the anti-Trumpsters can speak clearly avoid the safety of that word, I will not trust what they say." Stop the presses literally.I'm cereal!
exile: "Think of how surprised many of Lenin and Stalin's comrades must have been to find themselves facing a firing squad or boarding a train for Siberia."
They shouldn't have been surprised. After all, the Not Dishonest New York Times had Walter Duranty right there reporting that Stalin wasn't doing anything wrong and that the communist revolution was a thing of beauty and that certainly none of those kulaks were being murdered. Nope not at all.
That has to be true because Duranty won a Pulitzer for that very reporting, and it still hangs proudly on the wall at the NYT building.
Covering up Russian/Soviet mass murder: The NYT just doing what it do baby!
Ace of Spades has reading and Stephen and the Unknown-who-is-not-Vance down to a 'T':
Crazy people do not like being told they're crazy -- they do not like being told that they are not Napoleon Bonaparte. It is very important to crazy people that others see the world as they do -- otherwise, being crazy, and being captive in your own little cell of warped perspective and bad chemicals, is a very lonely existence.
The real issue here is that there is no new news about the FISA court rulings from 2016. The damned press coverage has been there since last November and even Hillary told the world that Trump was being investigated for a computer linked to two Russian banks.
What has changed since last November is that Trump was elected President. As the most powerful man in the world , he now can order his own investigation of the circumstances regarding the FISA warrants. Instead Trump would have you think that he is incapable of obtaining the real facts.
Government bureaucrats have a terribly bad habit of documenting everything. So with some 600,000 federal employees in the Washington, DC area, lots of them had to have been involved in the misuse of power or which I may actually be perfectly legal under the law. When President Trump has received his ordered investigative report, he could actually put the bad guys on trial. In the meantime, rousing the rabble with accusations is far below his office.
Actual outcomes could bring on violence and then who is to blame?
But the Trump supporters somehow cannot climb to the top of rubble to look down to determine what Trump is doing to keep the masses fat, dumb and happy.
"legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president"
Note how Trump asks if its legal for sitting president to be wire tapping a race for presidnet. He was referring to wiretapping people in his campaign. Not just himself.
@Drago, however the progs do have an 'A' in their OODA loop, as a female professor from Middlebury found out, as an elderly man in a MAGA hat at a pro-Trump rally in Berkeley found out, as people attempting to attend Trump rallies last summer found out when Robert Creamer's thugs attacked them for exercising their First Amendment right "peaceably to assemble."
William Chadwick:
I often say that if it weren't for fallacious arguments (chiefly the tu quoque, the ad hominem and the argument from pity), "liberals" would have no arguments at all. I would expand that to say "If it weren't for weasel words, 'liberals' would be mute." And wouldn't that be a nice, quiet world?
No such luck.
Let me see if I understand:
Lefty media (but I repeat myself) reports that "sources" say there were FISA court applications, one denied, one approved, and transcripts where "conversations of Trump campaign 'surrogates' were recorded" speaking to 'Russians'.
No Heat Street (which is owned by News Corp and is definitely not "lefty media") originally reported on the FISA warrants (based on anonymous sources). It took a couple months for Breitbart and Levin to pick up the story, which is apparently where Trump saw it on Friday. Conflating that with transcripts of Trump surrogates is the error. The surrogates, like Flynn, were recorded, apparently in conversations with the Russian ambassador, whose unsecured lines (and maybe his secure lines too) are undoubtedly being monitored.
We are now in the position in which it appears the original story was not correct. Comey, Clapper and a representative of the Obama Administration have all issued strong statements that did not know of any such warrants. Rationally, we should put much more faith in an on the record denial than an anonymously sourced story.
So either Comey, Clapper, and Obama or lying or Mensch's sources are.
"I'm baffled by Althouse's love affair with Trump"
I think you are baffled by quite a bit.
And add gadfly to the bungee jump line.
Add Freder, too.
Field Marshall Freder: "We are now in the position in which it appears the original story was not correct. Comey, Clapper and a representative of the Obama Administration have all issued strong statements that did not know of any such warrants. Rationally, we should put much more faith in an on the record denial than an anonymously sourced story."
LOL
They can't backtrack fast enough. Andy McCarthy's piece captures the legal details well and Ace of Spades nails the lefty insanity.
Big Mike: "@Drago, however the progs do have an 'A' in their OODA loop,..
That's the only letter I left in, as you can see from my post.
buwaya: But that was fairly early in last years' election campaign. It seems that Mensch went postal by October.
To put it charitably.
It does make one suspicious that former DNI James Clapper has come out and denied there was any wiretap. Why should someone at his level bother to deny it, if it is false?
Really?! You wrote this a straight face?
That is some really fucking twisted logic.
I'm thinking Trump may have taken one toke over the line.
The slightly more clever of the leftists, realizing that their position on Russia/Trump/Hacking/Collusion has been completely undermined
I don't know which leftists you are referring. The idea that there was direct collusion between the Russians and Trump has never been that strong.
What the hell are you talking about.
"Think of how surprised many of Lenin and Stalin's comrades must have been to find themselves facing a firing squad or boarding a train for Siberia"
This actually happened to thousands of foreign communists who went to the Soviet Union and were caught up in the purges. Often they were arrested the moment they got off the ship.
Many had been enticed to travel there specifically in order to have them liquidated.
Book Ref on part of this - "The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin's Russia", Tim Tzouladis, available on Amazon Kindle.
About American immigrants TO the Soviet Union, looking to build communism. The NYT and etc. bear a lot of responsibility for what happened to them.
Contributions to Trump for President: $2700
Trump Yard signs: $125
MAGA Hat: $15
Watching Mika Brzinsky in tears: Priceless.
Here it is: http://lidblog.com/same-ny-times-reporter/
The same NYT reporter who wrote about the wiretaps in January writes in March that there is "no evidence" supporting Trumps claims about the wiretaps.
As I have been asking all day: Were they lying then or are they lying now?
I don't know which leftists you are referring. The idea that there was direct collusion between the Russians and Trump has never been that strong.
What the hell are you talking about.
Go up a bit and read Inga's comments.
Field Marshall Freder: "I don't know which leftists you are referring. The idea that there was direct collusion between the Russians and Trump has never been that strong."
LOL
Yeah, a lefty just wrote that.
Remember, as noted many times previously, for the left history begins anew each day. That is helpful if you want to rewrite history. It's not so effective if everyone around you refuses to "forget".
ARM,
I give you the same comment I gave sunsong early in the thread.
Freder: "I don't know which leftists you are referring. The idea that there was direct collusion between the Russians and Trump has never been that strong."
If you are not playing word games here, you have lost your marbles. Most of the internet comment traffic concerning Trump and Russia accuses him of "being in Putin's pocket" or worse. The idiot Unknown actually spoke of "espionage" on this thread.
You may have figured out that the Democrat Trump/Russia meme is blowing up, but most of your cohorts haven't.
Here's another link for you: http://lidblog.com/same-ny-times-reporter/
It's priceless.
Will no one rid me of this troublesome President? Said the Dems.
Drago said...
The lefts "OODA" loop is missing an "O" and a "D"....and possible the other "O" as well....
Drago, I have been thinking, Trump's OODA loop is something we have seldom seen.
viator: "Drago, I have been thinking, Trump's OODA loop is something we have seldom seen"
Haven't we though?
OODA Loop
The left has a DOH loop
Freder: "I don't know which leftists you are referring. The idea that there was direct collusion between the Russians and Trump has never been that strong."
You have to be friggin' joking.
Either that, or your mind is like the memory hole in "1984" where information that is no longer useful to the Party is deposited and forgotten. The frightening thing is that in "1984" the Memory Hole was an actual chute that dumped inconvenient information into an incinerator. In the case of the left, it exists in their own heads. Providing links and information that runs counter to the current Party line is ignored and denied.
Imagine - that's the one thing, the only thing, the Leftists do efficiently. They are able to exercise mind control over other Leftists by simple peer pressure. No guns, no threats, no incinerators needed. Just trot out today's talking points.
FYI, that blog hombre pointed to is festooned with obnoxious ads of every variety, including the unfortunate naked image of an overweight old woman.
My eyes!
Gadfly: "What has changed since last November is that Trump was elected President. As the most powerful man in the world , he now can order his own investigation of the circumstances regarding the FISA warrants."
And while he is at it, he can ask who leaked the Flynn wiretaps to WaPo and who has been leaking other stuff from the WH. That is all certain to be fruitful, isn't it?
Get ready to jump back on the turnip truck, gadfly.
getadblock.com
exhelodrvr1 said...
The left has a DOH loop"
LOL!
The resent spectacle resembles Stalinist Russia in the 30s and Hollywood in the 40s. Read "Red Star Over Hollywood" or "Hollywood Party" to see how communists flipped on a dime when told to do so.
When Hitler invaded the USSR, Lillian Hellman, one of the well known communists in Hollywood, had written her anti-Nazi play "Watch on the Rhine" before the sudden event. She had to rewrite it and the movie is quite a bit different. Wikipedia, of course, does not mention this.
Freder said:
"We are now in the position in which it appears the original story was not correct. Comey, Clapper and a representative of the Obama Administration have all issued strong statements that did not know of any such warrants. Rationally, we should put much more faith in an on the record denial than an anonymously sourced story.
So either Comey, Clapper, and Obama or lying or Mensch's sources are."
Well that's kind of my point. The news was fake news, and the NY Times and Washington Post and CNN and everybody else was happy to run with it in an effort to smear Trump, in which case they should be looking in the mirror when they complain about Trump saying things "without evidence"
OR
The news was real, and the claims of "without evidence" are a smoke screen so the news media doesn't have to look into any Obama administration actions as they relate to spying on team Trump.
Either way, its clear the lefty news media (but I repeat myself) has lost all credibility as "unbiased".
Next up for Field Marshall Freder: Whaddya mean Hillary had an email problem? When was that ever a big deal?
Next next up for Field Marshall Freder: We were in a land war in Asia?
Tail Gunner Joe is turning over in his grave. How the CIA screwed up as easy a defamation by suspicion to be a Traitor as this was is unbelievable.
Freder Frederson said...
'...No Heat Street (which is owned by News Corp and is definitely not "lefty media") originally reported on the FISA warrants (based on anonymous sources)..."
These two anonymous sources peddled purported highly classified information purportedly gleaned from the counter-intelligence community.
This purported damaging information was expected to be published by a crusading Trump hater on the eve of the election before it could be verified.
Since Trump won, it was quickly forgotten...until it became convenient to recycle it again.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
I'm now inclined to believe it was simply fake news. If so proven (probably soon), I wonder if Louise Mensch will correct the record by naming her "sources"
Trump speculated that Obama may be a "sick" guy in the context of this "story," such as it is. And the only way to make even tha barest of sense out if that particular allegation is that Trump is also positing that Obama -- sicko that he is -- personally ordered/ requested/initiated or otherwise executed the "tapping" of Trump Tower communications.
This entire post seems like such an incredible tangent for Althouse.
EJ Dionne is a weasel - so...
Chuck, who is so called, attempts to derail a conversation? It matters not, so called Chuck.Trump has again won against Democrats in the media.
Trump is lucky in his enemies. Lifelong Republicans, so called, hardest hit.
It's very important to "lifelong republican" Chuck that no one insult obama while obama's admin is busy busy busy spying on domestic political opponents for what is clearly now "trumped" up reasons.
Good old "lifelong republican" Chuck, keeping the focus where it belongs: on whatever helps the dems.
Chuck: This entire post seems like such an incredible tangent for Althouse.
Your entire head-of-a-pin view of politics is an incredible tangent to the plain-as-day political reality observed by normal people.
New disclosures on the Alfa Bank Server connection found in Trump Tower. It was the item that Hillary and Obama gave the FISA judge for a reason to wire Tap Trump's Campaign in late October.
Now we find that server was installed labeled with Trump's Name and address by Evan McMullen's sister. Evan is the CIA agent and Mormon from Utah that ran against Trump to take Utah's electoral votes.
A story was run on 10/31/2016 and Hillary alerted the media on 11/1/2016 that " Computer Scientists" had found this by hidden Server by accident.
Freder: "I don't know which leftists you are referring. The idea that there was direct collusion between the Russians and Trump has never been that strong."
While your second sentence is true, what's that got to do with your first sentence?
@tim: sorry about rhe ads. I use Adblock on my ipad.
caplight45 said...
So, I just went to the Althouse Amazon portal and "ordered" a Drain "Weasel" Hair Clog Tool and then I saw the header on this post. It must be a sign.
3/6/17, 12:44 PM
Hey, now that you mention it, I haven't been getting my fair dosage of signs lately... You taking my signs bro?
Not cool man, they are just about all I got left!
"So you thought the right response was to turn your own insanity up to eleven? That's genius."
Worked for Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor and is working for me now too.
Of course, the penultimate words on the topic belong to Mike Keaton as Batman:
YOU WANNA GET NUTS? C'MON, LET'S GET NUTS!!!
Ain't no validity to no argument agin' dat dare logic.
"I often say that if it weren't for fallacious arguments (chiefly the tu quoque, the ad hominem and the argument from pity), "liberals" would have no arguments at all. I would expand that to say "If it weren't for weasel words, 'liberals' would be mute." And wouldn't that be a nice, quiet world?"
Lots of people love arguing with idiots, especially online. They love it. Love.
Addiction and other mental health issues arrive. Lots of lol at stupid things that should have been ignored, or at a very minimum not acknowledged, yet instead are highlighted and in some cases even ultra-consuming black holes of anything and anything decent inside of fool that makes the mistake of entering.
You read one such scarred fool right this single very moment, now.
Hah, its funny to see my facebook feed and lefty friends go completely radio silent today. Like its finally dawning on them that their fun postulating about trump being a stooge for russia etc. is hideously backfiring on them. I don't think even they believe this is beyond obama's reach to investigate a republican opponent during an election. There is a better than even chance the light bringer is up to his neck in it and they are now changing the subject. Good times!
"Crazy people do not like being told they're crazy"
"You so crazy...i think I wanna have yo baby."- Salt n Peppa featuring En Voque "Whatta Man"
Well Obama just 'ordered' someone else to 'order' it.
Kind of like the guy who promised he would not kill the victim. So he gave he gun to one of is minions and told him to kill the victim!
Gk1 said...
Hah, its funny to see my facebook feed and lefty friends go completely radio silent today. Like its finally dawning on them that their fun postulating about trump being a stooge for russia etc. is hideously backfiring on them. I don't think even they believe this is beyond obama's reach to investigate a republican opponent during an election. There is a better than even chance the light bringer is up to his neck in it and they are now changing the subject. Good times!
I noticed that too. Facebook is dead silent.
I wonder if the beltway media is aware of what is happening right now? If there was one thing that could have possibly turned a die hard Bernie loving Trump hater, at least the ones with souls, it would be government surveillance and abuse.
This is going to be ugly. And glorious.
Honest to God Achilles, you are one dumb MFer. If the candidate is committing a crime or espionage they will be put under survellience as part of an investigation. It's not a political vendetta you moron. No one is above the law, not even your God, Trump.
Blogger Paul said..."Well Obama just 'ordered' someone else to 'order' it.
Kind of like the guy who promised he would not kill the victim. So he gave he gun to one of is minions and told him to kill the victim!"
Hitler never "ordered" anyone to the gas chambers.
Blogger Unknown said...
Honest to God Achilles, you are one dumb MFer. If the candidate is committing a crime or espionage they will be put under survellience as part of an investigation.
The stupid is strong in this one.
"Espionage" is something I doubt Inga can even describe. What is Trump supposed to have spied on ?
We need a better class of trolls around here.
I suspect that Trump is throwing out allegations of wiretapping as a distraction to equal the deranged Democrats distraction of Trump allegedly colluding with the Russians. In the end, people will shrug their shoulders and say, "Who knows what happened?"
During this period of uncertainty, Trump will be able to staff his administration and work on fulfilling his campaign promises. The latter is ultimately what he will be judged on.
"Now we find that server was installed labeled with Trump's Name and address by Evan McMullen's sister. Evan is the CIA agent and Mormon from Utah that ran against Trump to take Utah's electoral votes.
A story was run on 10/31/2016 and Hillary alerted the media on 11/1/2016 that " Computer Scientists" had found this by hidden Server by accident."
-- If true, bad spy movies have been less convoluted.
Hallie Jackson asks question about Trump Saturday tweet that Obama "ordered wiretap . . ."
Spicer doesn't respond, "Trump didn't tweet 'ordered' . . . . "
Spicer not as far in the tank for Trump as Althouse?
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