Althouse: "That’s what freedom sounds like," said Mike Pence to his daughter as they walked into "Hamilton" to the sound of boos.

November 20, 2016

"That’s what freedom sounds like," said Mike Pence to his daughter as they walked into "Hamilton" to the sound of boos.

Impressive. I add one point to the "good man" side of the ledger.

I found that quote when I clicked on a NYT front page teaser that read "Trump Rails Against Critics in Entertainment Business" and that got me to an article titled "Trump Lavishes Praise on General as He Nears National Security Picks." I thought I'd misclicked and went back and retraced my steps, ended up in the same place, then found the teaser "Trump Rails Against Critics in Entertainment Business" in a top bar above the article, clicked that. Ending up at "Trump Lavishes Praise on General as He Nears National Security Picks," I finally accepted that the relevant "entertainment" material must be somewhere at the bottom of the article and searched the page for the word "entertainment."

87 comments:

rhhardin said...: It's easier to keep a ledger of honorable actions on the left.; 11/20/16, 12:46 PM
Humperdink said...: Mike Pence - what class looks like. Lefties would not recognize it.; 11/20/16, 12:47 PM
traditionalguy said...: Pence plays the good cop role. But without the bad cop Trump setting him up, no one would ever have heard of him and his opinion would never have been broadcast.; 11/20/16, 12:50 PM
JackWayne said...: It's what freedom sounds like in 2016. For the last 8 years it's been what racism sounds like.; 11/20/16, 12:51 PM
James Pawlak said...: Lectures are NOT "conversations"!

In this case the "Braying Ass" was on stage.; 11/20/16, 12:58 PM
tcrosse said...: Pence is an old political pro who knows how to handle stuff like this. He can take the proverbial heat in the kitchen (even if Trump can't). OTOH, as the Kennedy boys used to say, Don't get mad. Get even.; 11/20/16, 12:58 PM
rcocean said...: Traditional Guy has it right. President Pence -by himself -would've just "taken it". A few moderates would've applauded his "above it all" stance, the Left would've sneered at his weakness and become even more obnoxious, and conservatives would've been demoralized by his wimpy refusal to fight back. Why fight to defend the President, when he doesn't seem to care to defend himself?

We saw it all with the Bushes. Nice guys finish last.; 11/20/16, 1:07 PM
rcocean said...: Pence can act like a "classy fellow" because Trump is defending him and attacking the Left.; 11/20/16, 1:08 PM
Bilwick said...: You can understand the "Hamiltonians'" reaction. "Liberals" are worried that Trump might establish a dictatorship. And we all know how devoted to liberty "liberals" are.; 11/20/16, 1:10 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: You need a good cop and a bad cop. I'm fine with Pence playing good cop.; 11/20/16, 1:10 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: And Pence knows that Trump has his back.; 11/20/16, 1:11 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Multiple posts on the manufactured culture wars. No posts on how Trump will fulfill his conflicting economic promises. All hat no cattle.

At least the right wing grievance industry will flourish under a Trump presidency.; 11/20/16, 1:14 PM
Curious George said...: There's Pence Derangement Syndrome too. Hell, there's Everyone derangement Syndrome. The left is deranged.; 11/20/16, 1:23 PM
JPS said...: "Multiple posts on the manufactured culture wars."

I'm with you so far, ARM, but when do you think the manufacture started?; 11/20/16, 1:23 PM
Lauderdale Vet said...: Trump is yanking their chain.

For those of you who think "he can't handle it", he's not even playing your game.

He seems to be winning the game he *is* playing.; 11/20/16, 1:26 PM
rcocean said...: BTW, Alexander Hamilton wanted a President and Senate elected for life by a wealthy few and the Governors of every state appointed by the President.

He also was opposed to immigration. Amazing that the Liberals love him. But on 2nd thought maybe not.; 11/20/16, 1:28 PM
Michael K said...: Pence is an old political pro who knows how to handle stuff like this.

Yes, and ARM is showing us how much class the left has.

The "good cop, bad cop" routine may work very well the next 8 years. Cheney showed Bush how the place worked and kept his mouth shut. Rove, et all, were worried that Cheney would show up Bush. Nobody worries about Pence.; 11/20/16, 1:29 PM
Fred Drinkwater said...: "Hamiltonian"?
Oh God. In school the phrase "consider the Hamiltonian" always marked the transition from pleasure to pain.; 11/20/16, 1:30 PM
rehajm said...: That's what freedom sounds like

It smells like this...; 11/20/16, 1:30 PM
Steve M. Galbraith said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/20/16, 1:32 PM
Steve M. Galbraith said...: Give Trump's twitter account to Pence.

Trump doesn't need this chicken stuff; he needs to learn that you shouldn't shoot down. The best way to win - and to drive liberals nuts - is to elevate the discussion. They WANT him to pick fights like this. If he shows class like Pence that will infuriate them even more.

Surely you Trump supporters know this?; 11/20/16, 1:34 PM
Darrell said...: "Liberals" are worried that Trump might establish a dictatorship.

Liberals are worried that Trump can't be cowed to give them everything they want.; 11/20/16, 1:38 PM
Etienne said...: Trump is always going off half-cocked.

He doesn't quite realize, that he's president now. Like Nixon he can just make a ledger, and add names to it. Then when they show up in Washington with their hands out, he can open the ledger...

scan, scan, scan, aha!

No soup for you, NEXT!; 11/20/16, 1:49 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: The same freedom that Marie Antoinette and the Romanovs heard, lest Mr Mike Pennies forget.

It's not what freedom sounds like. It's what the freedom to tell your VP what an out-of-touch douchebag he is sounds like.

Trump just picked him because he was the Jesus-i-est right winger whom he could stand to have on the ticket with him.; 11/20/16, 1:58 PM
Big Mike said...: Oh, ARM, as soon as Donald Trump realizes how disappointed you are in his post-election efforts I'm sure he'll resign in utter humiliation. Until that point just suck it up. He's an opportunistic man and he'll exploit his opportunities.; 11/20/16, 1:59 PM
rehajm said...: No posts on how Trump will fulfill his conflicting economic promises.

Lefties awaken from their long Economic Accountability Winter's nap. Good morning! You won't have to do anything except sit back and watch. (Despite your protests you won't get to do anything either except sit back and watch, either...)

Getting the 9 trillion dollar man out of office is a great start...; 11/20/16, 2:04 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: "Liberals" are worried that Trump might establish a dictatorship. And we all know how devoted to liberty "liberals"

Liberals are always projecting their own desires, actions and plans onto everyone else.

They would dearly love to have a dictatorship, imperial Presidency, put climate change deniers into re-education camps, force their policies onto others and punish those who do not agree with their party line.

Projection. What they claim to be afraid of is actually what THEY want to do.; 11/20/16, 2:04 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: JPS said...
I'm with you so far, ARM, but when do you think the manufacture started?

Adam and Eve.; 11/20/16, 2:07 PM
David Begley said...: Trump's tweet, "The cast and producers of Hamilton, which I hear is highly overrated, should immediately apologize to Mike Pence for their terrible behavior."

Typical Trump rhetoric with "which I hear is highly overrated...." Hamilton has been praised by everyone and it should be. It is one of the best American musicals of all time. Right up there with Oklahoma.

The funny thing here is that Hamilton was a conservative and he really made Wall Street possible. He's been called the patron saint of Wall Street. Heck, he is buried at Trinity Church which is about two good 2 irons from the NYSE.

Lin Manuel Miranda is a very savvy guy. I predict he will come to the White House and perform or do something similar. Calling my shot here.; 11/20/16, 2:11 PM
tcrosse said...: Trump is always going off half-cocked.

He doesn't quite realize, that he's president now.
Not so fast. He's not president yet. Try to keep up.; 11/20/16, 2:19 PM
rehajm said...: ...he is buried at Trinity Church which is about two good 2 irons from the NYSE.

Trinity Church can't be more than 75 yards from NYSE can it?

Please, never let me get paired up with you ;-)...; 11/20/16, 2:28 PM
glenn said...: Like I said on another thread, " Show up on time. Know your lines. Hit your marks." Sing me a song, play me a tune. Entertain me. Pour me a coffee. That's what I paid you for. If I want a sermon I can get one Sunday morning in Church.; 11/20/16, 2:30 PM
Known Unknown said...: Trinity Church can't be more than 75 yards from NYSE can it?

Please, never let me get paired up with you ;-)...

Trinity Church is 352 yards from the NYSE, according to Google Maps.; 11/20/16, 2:35 PM
mockturtle said...: trad guy and Bad Lieutenant make a valid point about the 'good cop/bad cop' thing. Not a bad combo, IMO.; 11/20/16, 2:35 PM
Known Unknown said...: So, if you're not a super strong irons player, and you hit a #2 about 176, then it's exactly two 2-irons away.; 11/20/16, 2:36 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/20/16, 2:38 PM
trumpintroublenow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/20/16, 2:38 PM
mockturtle said...: Trump is always going off half-cocked.

Does it have anything to do with 'small hands', do you think?; 11/20/16, 2:39 PM
trumpintroublenow said...: Pence doesn't believe in evolution and doesn't believe cigarettes kill, or does he?.

"Time for a quick reality check. Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn't kill. In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness and 9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer."

Huh? ... Would be nice if the VP had some understanding of rudimentary logic and science.; 11/20/16, 2:40 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: "Liberals" are worried that Trump might establish a dictatorship. And we all know how devoted to liberty "liberals"

Liberals are always projecting their own desires, actions and plans onto everyone else.

GIve me a fucking break, you head-in-the-ground, projecting ostrich. Which "liberal" wanted to overturn the libel laws and couldn't stand a single insult going un-revenge-Tweeted at 3 AM. None. You are a lunatic who hates reality. By all means, live within that fantasy but your inability to call a spade a spade is pathetic.

Just because people don't trust you to be in charge doesn't mean they want a dictatorship. And you and your fellow Trumpkins obsession with vengeance (in victory!) just proves how unfit to govern your mindset is. Yes, the people who act sadistically and vindictively in victory are the true tyrants. Basic Political Psychology 101.; 11/20/16, 2:42 PM
rehajm said...: So, if you're not a super strong irons player, and you hit a #2 about 176, then it's exactly two 2-irons away.

If you're not a super strong irons player you shouldn't be allowed within a mile of a 2 iron.; 11/20/16, 2:43 PM
Known Unknown said...: If you're not a super strong irons player you shouldn't be allowed within a mile of a 2 iron.

The average range for a 2-iron is 170 to 210 yards. The average for tour players is obviously higher.; 11/20/16, 2:45 PM
rehajm said...: Trinity Church is 352 yards from the NYSE, according to Google Maps

Where the heck did they measure from?; 11/20/16, 2:47 PM
mockturtle said...: It's probably the road distance.; 11/20/16, 2:52 PM
Known Unknown said...: Where the heck did they measure from?

That's walking, not a direct shot from one point to the other. 352 yards via the streets you'd have to take to get from one to the other. Unless of course, you can fly.; 11/20/16, 2:53 PM
mockturtle said...: A two iron probably doesn't have enough loft to clear the buildings.; 11/20/16, 2:53 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Liberals are worry big mommy gubberment will take away their free stuff.; 11/20/16, 3:02 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Balls - you may not want a dictatorship, but Katy Perry does.; 11/20/16, 3:06 PM
rehajm said...: A two iron probably doesn't have enough loft to clear the buildings.

I was thinking this, too. A little fade though...I'm THIS close to claiming I can make this shot.

Maybe I can challenge Trump to try, too.; 11/20/16, 3:15 PM
rehajm said...: That's walking, not a direct shot from one point to the other. 352 yards via the streets you'd have to take to get from one to the other. Unless of course, you can fly.

The main entrance(s) could make sense. Not as the crow flies. Or a Pro V1x...; 11/20/16, 3:17 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Who cares about Katy Perry? What does she know about anything? Does she even have a view on any particular policy? Of course not.

You people have to stop taking celebrities seriously. How seriously were we supposed to take Clint Eastwood... talking to a chair for god's sake.; 11/20/16, 3:25 PM
JWH said...: Sound just like what Custer said at the Little Big Horn. "Holy cow, look at all those cotton picking Idians."; 11/20/16, 3:39 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Growing up we lived very near a naval air station. My mother tells me she once complained about some jet noise to a neighbor, a pilot himself, one afternoon. He looked to the sky and said in a solemn voice "ma'am, that's the sound of freedom."; 11/20/16, 3:57 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Balls- Celebrities know everything. Look how many lined up for Hillary!; 11/20/16, 4:14 PM
MikeR said...: Wow: https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2016/11/trump-supporter-hamilton-actors-cry/
Did the Hamilton actors think of this?; 11/20/16, 4:27 PM
Hagar said...: That is not what I heard Custer said.; 11/20/16, 5:26 PM
Owen said...: Does the 2-iron estimate include a bounce off the pavement? If you got lucky you might make it in one shot.; 11/20/16, 5:34 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "As if lying, cheating, and rioting wasn’t enough, some liberals are now threatening to murder members of the Electoral College if they vote for Trump.

Michael Banerian, 22, is just one of many electors who’ve faced haunting death threats should he cast his vote in December for the President-elect.

“You have people saying, ‘you’re a hateful bigot, I hope you die,'” said Michael, “I’ve had people talk about shoving a gun in my mouth and blowing my brains out. And I’ve received dozens and dozens of those emails. Even the non-threatening-my-life emails are very aggressive.”

According to The Detroit News, some of the messages were verified as authentic, including one that threatened to “put a bullet” in Michael’s mouth.

Nothing says “democracy” like threatening to murder people for democratically-electing a President."

https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2016/11/electoral-college-threats-murder-trump/; 11/20/16, 5:39 PM
Jaq said...: I met that guy in a hotel elevator in Manhattan. He seemed so nice!; 11/20/16, 5:45 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: The electors are chosen. Appointed. Anointed. Not elected. The electoral college was set up specifically to give the less populous slave-owning south more say. True fact.

I don't mind the EC and believe that broad geographical representation is a good enough reason to not give up and move to a system where a bunch of urban votes can overwhelm the others, and the (hopefully) few instances where they conflict is a small price to pay. But let's not kid ourselves here on what democracy's about or how the EC is some great example of it. It's a horrible example of it - and one of those antidemocratic strictures that Republicans love so well.

If they really want to do something about democracy they'd stop their voter suppression efforts. But I'm more than willing to entertain that Hillary was the worse evil and that the system worked correctly in stopping her.

But let's stop the self-backslapping. It's as bad as if Hillary boosters would have gloated had they got their win. Lord knows I never would have let them get away with that. I don't intend on letting Trumpkinses get away with thinking that beating her is all that matters, either. They have some problems of their own that they have to work out, and they're deluded if they think that a phony display of Republican partisan unity is going to solve it.; 11/20/16, 5:47 PM
Jaq said...: one witness reported on Facebook that the [Trump supporter's] rant drove the [Hamilton] cast to tears, although “they didn’t break characters once.”

Milo sure knows how to pick the telling detail.; 11/20/16, 5:50 PM
Your Nation's Capital said...: I adore "Hamilton" and was quite appalled by the behavior of the cast when the vice president attended.

Appalled but not surprised, I suppose. I read tons of reviews and interviews throughout the summer and there was a common theme expressed by the cast (and their like-minded interviewers): People expressed astonishment that people like Dick Cheney! and other evil Republicans attended the play, knowing that the cast featured actors of color. My jaw actually dropped. It is a PLAY. With ACTORS. Chosen and CAST by a DIRECTOR. Pretty sure that even Dick Cheney could grasp that fact and even agree with the premise "America Then as played by America Now." But the constant theme was that they were fully expecting conservatives to storm out of the theater in disgust.

That being said, I was most disappointed by Lin-Manuel Miranda's fervent support of Hillary Clinton. It seemed to me that he did not actually learn the lessons presented by Chernow's biography. Alexander Hamilton valued the honor of his new nation above all else, and consciously cratered his own personal career and political standing rather than allow dishonor to disgrace the United States and the financial system he so laboriously crafted. And he fought his entire career to NOT profit from his public positions. Pretty much the opposite of Clinton's turn at State in just about every respect.

And yet... I suppose Hillary was the candidate of Wall Street, so maybe it makes sense from that perspective.

That being said, I was disappointed in his political stands, but that does not take away from the play itself that he gifted to our Nation. Our past, our present, and our future are well served by it and will long outlast this ridiculous kerfuffle.; 11/20/16, 5:53 PM
Jaq said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/20/16, 5:53 PM
Jaq said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/20/16, 5:57 PM
Jaq said...: Speaking of US History as it involves Alexander Hamilton. He was all over the XYZ affair:

John Adams wanted to avoid a full scale war with France opposing his own Federalist Party that under the direction of Alexander Hamilton used these events to turn U.S. citizens against France. Most of the impact of the XYZ affair was in domestic politics, as it was used as a tool for the opposition.

What was the XYZ Affair, you might ask, well it was when the French Foreign Minister, Tallyrand demanded a personal bribe before he would negotiate with the US in his official capacity for France. Americans, including Hamilton, were outraged. "Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute!" was the cry, as I recall.

So who fits the Tallyrand mode today? Who was the one that foreigners had to pay money to before she would meet with them as Secretary of State? Oooh, I tipped my hand there with the "she" didn't I?

I wonder if the XYZ affair comes up in the play, I kind of doubt it.; 11/20/16, 6:06 PM
JCCamp said...: it's not really that big of a deal, and not a surprise either, but what happend to Pence and family was rude, arrogant and demeaning to the VP-elect.

Attending the play with family, and sitting in an opera box, was not inexpensive, and the Pence family was entitled to enjoy the show without boos and a condescending lecture from a guy who sings and dances for his living.

What the actor said was "We're arfraid of you and your administration because we think you're a bigot. But hopefully, after watching this wonderful production we have arranged, you will be transformed into a Democrat."

Try imagining what would have happened if Obama, Michelle and kids went to a Broadway show, the audience booed them, and then an actor chastised him, saying along the lines of "We don't trust you because you're biased against those who don't look like you." The media, especially the Times and WaPo, would be screaming 'racism', Mayor DeBlasio would close the venue, and the actor who said that would have to surrender his Equity card (probably his Gay Card too) and move to Australia to escape being lynched or beaten every time he went to Starbucks or a stylish wine bar.; 11/20/16, 6:08 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "If they really want to do something about democracy they'd stop their voter suppression efforts."

What evidence do you have that any votes were suppressed? I saw a young white guy with a man bun turned away at my polling place because he only had a work picture ID, he had forgotten his driver's license at home. He was slightly exasperated - mainly because he had left the thing on his kitchen table - but didn't argue or fuss. He either got it and picked it up and returned to the polls or he didn't. But that was his choice. Nobody was suppressing him. (And from what a black woman told me at work, the poll workers were considerably more lenient in their ID checking in the hood.)

You need a photo ID when you go to the hospital, when you cash a check, when you buy beer or cigarettes at the grocery store. You can't function in society without it. It is beyond insulting to suggest that poor minorities are somehow too stupid or helpless to get and carry a photo ID. It's not like they are being asked to recite the Declaration of Independence word for word.

Obama openly said before the election that he would not stop illegals from voting. If voter suppression means stopping non-citizens from voting in American elections I'm all for it.; 11/20/16, 6:19 PM
Gahrie said...: The electoral college was set up specifically to give the less populous slave-owning south more say. True fact.

Bull fucking shit.

if this is true...why was the three fifths compromise necessary? Allowing the slaves to count as a whole person would give the slave states more power after all......

The whole process, from Declaration of Independence to the U.S. Constitution was about reducing the power of slavery and slave owners, and making the fewest concessions possible to slavery and the slave states.; 11/20/16, 6:48 PM
mockturtle said...: Per tim in vermont: So who fits the Tallyrand mode today? Who was the one that foreigners had to pay money to before she would meet with them as Secretary of State? Oooh, I tipped my hand there with the "she" didn't I?

Talleyrand, whom Napoleon apparently called 'a turd in a silk stocking'. To his face.; 11/20/16, 6:48 PM
mockturtle said...: Gahrie, almost nothing R&B posts is true.; 11/20/16, 6:50 PM
Sebastian said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/20/16, 7:16 PM
Sebastian said...: "Lin Manuel Miranda is a very savvy guy." Right. Hamilton was attacked mainly from the left. Too jingoist pro-American, you know. Lecturing Pence restores lefty street cred.

@YNC: "That being said, I was most disappointed by Lin-Manuel Miranda's fervent support of Hillary Clinton." Huh? Dad is a big Dem consultant.; 11/20/16, 7:16 PM
Hagar said...: I think it is more like what incipient totalitarianism sounds like.; 11/20/16, 7:24 PM
Anonymous said...: The electoral college was not set up to give the slaveholding states more say. The electoral college predated the universal franchise and most (all?) states had property qualifications required to vote. To the extent the electoral college had a point beyond the founders' reflexive suspicion of direct democracy, it was *generally* in order to avoid bribing the states to expand the franchise. A state could let every man, woman, and child vote, or you could restrict voting to white men meeting a minimum property qualifications; in either case it received the same number of electoral votes: 2 + the number of representatives it had in the house.; 11/20/16, 7:37 PM
Your Nation's Capital said...: @Sebastian "Dad is a big Dem consultant." Yes, I know that Luis Miranda is a bigshot in NYC politics and is a very well-connected Democrat. Notice I didn't say I was surprised that LMM went Clinton, just disappointed.

LMM grew up immersed in NYC politics - he's probably the only playwright who would/could grasp the fine points of Hamilton's sausage factory and grind out this marvelous play.

And I'm so happy his candidate didn't prevail.; 11/20/16, 7:39 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Bull fucking shit.

if this is true...why was the three fifths compromise necessary? Allowing the slaves to count as a whole person would give the slave states more power after all......

The whole process, from Declaration of Independence to the U.S. Constitution was about reducing the power of slavery and slave owners, and making the fewest concessions possible to slavery and the slave states.

Ignorance squared here. The slave states had less population, regardless. Either way, the EC benefited them. A compromise is a compromise from two positions - the other position being a popular vote that Madison had felt ideal. Three fifths was to appease the north, as the south preferred obviously that slaves would count as one whole person for purposes of representation. The EC therefore bloated southern representation of the vote by giving the non-voting slaves 3/5ths representation for each state's winner, instead of none - as slaves could not vote. Duh. Here's Madison:

"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to the fewest objections."

I'm ready to accept your apology whenever your'e ready, mockturtle. But because you're probably not an honorable person, I don't expect it.

But it's nice the way you piss on founding father James Madison.

Don't ever teach kids history.; 11/20/16, 7:52 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: What evidence do you have that any votes were suppressed?

Longer lines, shortened voting hours. For some reason these things seem to happen right after Republicans take over the state offices. I guess it must be a priority for them to shorten the voting hours.

It's no secret that Republicans benefit from depressed turnout. 2016 had lower turnout than both 2012 and 2008, and is almost the direct reason for Hillary's loss. They didn't like her. Or, they just didn't like her enough to vote. But objectively speaking, lower turnout always seems to favor the Republicans. I suspect the party leaders know this and pursue policies accordingly.; 11/20/16, 7:57 PM
Hagar said...: The 3/5 ratio predated the Constitution. The Continental Congress used it to assess contributions to the Confederation of States.

And R7B, you have some nerve casting aspersions on mockturtle's character considering your own behavior on this blog!; 11/20/16, 8:06 PM
JML said...: I have not played golf -- I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment on this post.; 11/20/16, 8:20 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: I don't call people liars whom I know not to be liars, Hagar.

Do you?; 11/20/16, 8:34 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "2016 had lower turnout than both 2012 and 2008, and is almost the direct reason for Hillary's loss. They didn't like her. Or, they just didn't like her enough to vote."

"They didn't like her" is not voter suppression. It's not the GOP's job to ensure that the Dems run an attractive candidate so people come out and vote. I'm amused by these protesters who are screaming that Trump is Orange Hitler but tell TV crews they didn't bother to vote. Shit, if you honestly think Hitler is on the ballot, you get your rear end to the polls and vote against him. Admittedly, standing in line to vote is not as much fun as marching and shouting and virtue signaling by wearing a safety pin, but it's a bit more effective. The conclusion I draw is that these people know damn well he's not Hitler.; 11/20/16, 9:14 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Voting "blocs" are not individuals. Some voted, some didn't. Some voted for certain reasons, others for different reasons. And it's true that Republican have greatly shortened voting hours at the polls. More than one thing can be true at the same time, no matter how difficult it is for someone focused on one thing to remember those other things.; 11/20/16, 10:25 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Blogger Rhythm and Balls said...

Can't we move this guy somewhere where he won't take up as much space?
Like Stormfront, or ABC, or NBC, or CBS?

Super Tedium.

GO AWAY.; 11/21/16, 1:10 AM
damikesc said...: Longer lines, shortened voting hours.

Those states had the same voting hours as NY.

It's only an issue of "shorter voting hours" in "battleground states". States that safely Democrat have "short" voting hours too, as a rule.

Voting should be a one day event only.; 11/21/16, 7:01 AM
damikesc said...: And my state, safely Republican, had sufficient staffing for me, at 5:45P, to take 10 minutes to vote, including parking my car and walking back to it.; 11/21/16, 7:02 AM
Dr Weevil said...: Is it true that "The slave states had less population, regardless", as R&B alleges (1/20 7:52pm)? When the Civil War began, definitely, but when the Constitution was signed, no.

In the 1st Congress (1788), the seven non-slave state delegations had 35 delegates total (MA 8, PA 8, NY 6, CT 5, NJ 4, NH 3, RI 1) for an average of 5. The six slave state delegations had 30 delegates total (VA 10, MD 6, NC 5, SC 5, GA 3, DE 1) for an average of 5. They undoubtedly had fewer free voting inhabitants - the 3/5ths compromise affected the totals, since the slave states were roughly 1/3 slaves in the 1790 census - but they must have had larger total populations. (By the way, there were also 40,000 slaves in the northern sates in the same census, with only Massachusetts and Maine - not yet separate states - reporting zero.)

In fact, the 1790 census gives a total population of 1,797,076 for the northern states, 1,866,387 for the southern (= slave) states, which included MD and DE. (I've subtracted Vermont from the Wikipedia totals, since it was an independent nation until 1791, and didn't have its census until then.) You can subtract Maine from the northern numbers and Kentucky from the southern total, but it won't affect the matter much: the fact is that the north and south had roughly equal total populations (including slaves) while the north was divided into 7 states (8 when Vermont joined) and the south only 6, so southern states were in fact larger in average population.

Adding two Electoral College votes for each state undoubtedly helped tiny states like Rhode Island and Delaware against large states like Virginia, turning a 10:1 ratio in population into a 4:1 ration in electoral votes, but it had zero effect on the relative powers of Slave and not-yet-entirely-non-Slave states. By "zero effect", I mean 0.000000000 effect. The South had 30/65 of the seats in the House of Representatives, 42/91 of the Electoral Votes. Do the math: both ratios come out to 46.1538461538% (the 461538 repeats to infinity).

It would be nice if R&B would do the math before posting. If he did, he might not make remarks about "Ignorance squared" and pissing on James Madison. Or at least not make such remarks about other people. It looks to me like his ignorance cubed made him piss all over his own stinky self. Will he apologize for his ignorance, arrogance, and vulgarity? I doubt it, but am prepared to be pleasantly surprised.; 11/21/16, 9:03 AM
Dr Weevil said...: P.S.
1. For "4:1 ration" read "4:1 ratio".
2. Virginia's population was actually 10.8 times larger than Rhode Island's, 12.7 times larger than Delaware's. Both benefited from the minimum one-representative-per-state-no-matter-how-small rule.; 11/21/16, 9:08 AM