November 4, 2016
How Clinton/Trump lost me.
Do I have a "lost me" tradition on this blog? In September 2004, I wrote "How Kerry lost me," mining the archive to trace down where my hostility to Kerry came from. On November 8, 2008, I wrote "How McCain lost me," using the same method. I can't remember or search out what I did in 2012. Was there a "How Obama lost me" or a "How Romney won me"? I can't find it. If I didn't do it in 2012, I feel less of a call to do it now in 2016, but on the other hand, maybe I need to do it just to figure out how to vote. I genuinely don't know how I will vote on Tuesday. It's possible that if I did a mining of the archive, I would discover the answer. Oh! But there are so many posts! The point of the 2004 and 2008 posts was that I saw how I was going to vote and found it interesting to see how the decision evolved. Now, I don't know. What would I look for? The comparable post would be Why I don't know how to vote. I could set out to do that, perform it in real time for you, and perhaps decide in front of you. I'm inviting you to prod me to do that, but at the same time, I don't know if I want to do something so shameful in public.
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152 comments:
Althosue should vote for DTJ.
The last time that she let down her fans she had to marry one of them.
There's nothing left that she could do to make it up to them this time, if she went HRC?
I voted for Trump because of a bit of gossip that Jezebel.com published. Twenty or so years ago, his son, Donald Jr., was a student at the University of Pennsylvania. His father surprised him on Tuesday or a Wednesday or whenever with Yankees tickets. It's the middle of the afternoon and his son stumbles out of his dorm room dead drunk. Mr. Trump slaps him with enough force to knock him off his feet and orders him to get dressed. I hate to admit it, but this was the right thing to do. And that matters.
? should be .
"Vote for DJT, he beats his kids when they drink alcohol in college."
"Vote for DJT, he'd like to date (which means have sex w/) his daughter."
DJT as the family man.
Of the two leading candidates, which one would you like least to see as President? Why not? If the answer makes sense to you vote for the other one.
Paul Rahe's column this morning summarizes pretty well where a lot of us ended up.
There is no good choice. What choice will hurt the country the most in the long run?
https://ricochet.com/385888/an-open-letter-to-the-nevertrumpers-from-a-sympathizer/
I like that DJT learned to work from an early age. And, it wasn't like he had the chauffer drive him on his paper route every time it rained. Only some of the time.
At this point, what difference does it make?
I think not voting has to be an option. That was my plan. But I didn't follow through. The press was pressing me to vote for HRC. So I voted for Trump. I'm not proud that I was manipulated like that.
It's not like his daddy had a stooge buy more than three million dollars in chips to bailout DJT more than once. Usually the bailouts were more above board.
With 10 electors in Wisconsin, it doesn't matter how you vote.
Trust me, we have 7, and it has made no difference in any Presidential election since we stole the Indian lands and formed the state.
The next President will be elected by New York, California, and Florida.
Place your bets, but don't waste gas going to the polls.
Its Trump or Clinton. Voting 3rd party in a semi-swing state like Wisconsin is cowardice. Voting for Clinton is voting for 4 years of scandal and corruption. So, its Trump.
Obama, Clinton et al lost me at Pro-Choice, including: anti-native policies, progressive wars, immigration reform (e.g. refugee crises, mass emigration), trial by sodomy and abortion, extrajudicial assassinations, premature evacuation, class diversity, selective exclusion, abortion rites, redistributive change, social injustice, pay for play politics, rehabilitating terrorists, Libya-ISIS Affair, the Ukrainian etc. coups, devaluation of capital and labor, scientific mysticism, sanctimonious hypocrisy, etc.
Best of all: DJT has promised that if he was POTUS, HRC would be in jail.
Trump can be abominable, but Hillary is an abomination.
The difference between having the capacity for a trait or being the epitome of it is not insignificant.
She has pursued power for her entire life and yet has never shown herself to be deserving of trust or be qualified to handle power.
I feel she has made herself into a caricature of humanity with her naked thirst to be in charge.
People point to an unstable world situation and then tell us Trump, who had no hand in creating it, can't be trusted, but she, who worked hand in glove with Obama, will step in and smooth the waters.
Someone said very presciently that Hillary wants power, Trump wants attention. I'm with Douglas Adams on this one, I fear her far more than I fear the big Orange.
Also, w/ DJT the hideous hellhole that is America today will be made GA.
Also, if you don't vote for DJT, you're the reason we'll still have crime and violence in America:
“I have a message for all of you: the crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon come to an end. Beginning on January 20th of 2017, safety will be restored.”
For what it's worth, I still don't know who I'm going to vote for either. I am leaning more toward Trump (previously my thought was that I would not vote for POTUS at all (only down ballot, for GOP Congress) and then for the past few weeks have considered writing in McMullin.
The massive scale of corruption surrounding HRC is starting to push me over the edge though. I was thinking of it this way this morning: if we, the voters, are like the board of a company and the CEO is retiring...and we know that CEO has a particular successor in mind but we also find out that this potential successor had been running a huge embezzlement scheme and the retiring CEO helped her cover it up to avoid prosecution...and we also know that half the board is also corrupt and will try to hire the embezzler...but we also have a dilemma because our only other vetted candidate is also hugely flawed and may not even have better ethics but he doesn't have any connection to the crooks that have infested our organization and has an independent source of wealth so is unlikely to steal from us....
Well, I guess I'd have to vote for that guy.
Why not explain why you don't know who to vote for? 13% of the electorate still hasn't made up its mind. Or why not invite the commenters to guess why you can't decide?
I guess that you find Trump comments about women more than offensive, almost a deal-breaker. I think you fear conservative attitudes on gays. I think many of your friends are Madison liberals and you see them as people who wish to do right, not wrong-headed symbols of progressivism.
But you viewed up close the response to Act 10 and the irrational hate-filled opposition to Walker. You fear current liberal attitudes toward religious believers. You are more aware of the arguments of the Trump supporters and of Hillary Clinton's corruption than a good blind liberal should be.
In the American Civil War you would have been from Kentucky like JJ Crittenden who tried for compromise till the day he died and who had sons in both armies.
So, I voted early last Saturday. I'll be traveling on election day. I know there are many people who strenuously object to early voting..."because so much can change..."
Then on Sunday, I'm at the local Protestant Church and they are celebrating the 499th anniversary of the Revolution, I mean the Reformation.
It occurs to me that the times we are presently in are not unlike what they were on the eve of Luther's mythical nailing of his theses to the door at Wittenburg. Hillary is the evil and corrupt Roman Catholic Church, selling indulgences and influences. And Donald is a modern day Martin Luther, pathological, vulgar, take-no-prisoners and burn it all down to hell with tradition, manners and protocol.
I realized then that I had cast my vote for the wrong candidate.
We see how well the Reformation worked for the Church.
Yet again and again,
Nobody is really voting for a person, that's an illusion.
You all are voting for a system, a society, a clique.
Now more than ever.
No shame in voting for neither.
But if you like accountability, vote Trump. Forget about how much you don't like Clinton or Trump. Just vote for the one you think will be held most accountable.
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Also, w/ DJT the hideous hellhole that is America today will be made GA.
All your posts are coming off as panicked and desperate.
Relax. The media, the pollsters and everyone in the know says Clinton has got this.
Vote for Hillary Clinton because she is a bad liar. It's the good liars like her husband, the cocksure, the audacious, and the tawdry liars that you really have to worry about. She'll get away with nothing.
"Just vote for the one you think will be held most accountable."
Ha, poor DJT can't catch a break. So much accountability. If the poor guy had made the any errors or untruths or failures to disclose, he'd sunk because of all the accountability.
Write in the name of someone you think would do a good job.
"The media, the pollsters and everyone in the know says Clinton has got this."
As I've stated in these threads before I didn't vote for HRC. Which was an easy call for me, because my state's not in play.
Not DJT either.
It was a simple choice for me. If Donald gets out of line constitutionally, Paul Ryan will not hesitate to call a vote for impeachment and the Senate will fall over itself doing it. A Hillary impeachment would be blockaded by the Senate just like Bill's. She's a liar, she has no ethical boundaries and she is supported by every left leaning offical who wants more government control over the populace.
How Althouse lost me.
Inconsistency, cruel neutrality bs, to moderate or not to moderate that is the question: Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer.
ok, I'm still here, so she hasn't lost me yet. But she and many of her flock are hoping!
>
Trump lost me at hello.
And cons hate/despise/loathe Hillary so she must have some redeeming qualities. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
>
I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.
What kind of odd voting machines do they use in Susan Sarandon's precinct?
If you want a reason to vote for Trump, Glenn Reynolds said in one of his USA Today columns that the MSM will attack Trump 24/7 while letting Hillary skate.
If you want a reason to vote for Trump, Glenn Reynolds said in one of his USA Today columns that the MSM will attack Trump 24/7 while letting Hillary skate.
"Vote for Hillary Clinton because she is a bad liar."
Plus Rs in congress and civilian Rs who are manipulated by their media don't put checks on themselves, but they love cooking up road blocks for Ds.
They are both miscreants but which one is the better persuader?
I have the luxury of living in a state (California) where my vote doesn't matter.
However you live in Wisconsin Althouse.....and a vote for anyone but Trump is a vote for Hillary.
"At this point, what difference does it make?"
None ie without a filibuster proof senate nothing will get out of committee. Reps keeping control of the House notwithstanding.
Total gridlock like the last (6) years.
So pick your poison.
Obama did lose you. A November 2, 2012 post. You wrote: "Obama could have won me. Then came Benghazi, and a door closed."
"Trump can be abominable, but Hillary is an abomination."
You've summed it up well.
I'm in Wisconsin and I'll be voting for Trump. And two of my left-leaning acquaintances have told them they will be voting for Jill Stein. They're apparently not alone. Check out this HuffPo editoral:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/casar-vargas/why-i-can-no-longer-suppo_1_b_12698874.html
I expected the author to be roasted in the comments section, only to find that a lot of them agree with him.
Didn't Susan Sarandon reject female chauvinism and discover individual dignity?
Just vote for the one you think will be held most accountable.
Good choice. Religious/moral philosophy for people capable of self-moderating behavior. Competing interests to prevent others from running amuck.
Althouse was enamored with Romney from the get-go as she really did need a reason to lose Obama.
didn't need a reason to lose Obama.
From Wiki:
In fluid dynamics, the drag coefficient (commonly denoted as: Cd , Cx or Cw ) is a dimensionless quantity that is used to quantify the drag or resistance of an object in a fluid environment, such as air or water. It is used in the drag equation in which a lower drag coefficient indicates the object will have less aerodynamic or hydrodynamic drag. The drag coefficient is always associated with a particular surface area.
You know the particular surface area.
Apply.
I am Laslo.
However you live in Wisconsin Althouse.....and a vote for anyone but Trump is a vote for Hillary.
11/4/16, 6:12 PM
Unless a person was planning to vote for Hillary and votes third party instead. The HuffPo piece I posted above is a sign that not all Bernie voters are willing to meekly vote for the Democrat, especially since they are well aware of how Sanders was screwed during the primaries. Assange is a hero to them and they've been reading Wikileaks. If a significant number of them stay at home or vote third party or for Trump, Hill's in big trouble.
On the Horns of a dilemma:
Do you want to see a brain damaged, dirty old witch who channels a mighty lust for power and money and kills opponents she cannot blackmail, become our First Lesbian President who will sell all that is left of the USA to the highest bidder for cash.
Or do you want to see a near perfect Presidential candidate boldly grab power and drain the corrupt swamp in DC like Jesus did to the money changers and marketers in The Temple.
Or do you refuse to risk chosing.
My Perry's Handbooks are not near by.
One Clinton voter I talked to did it to keep from having to look at Trump on the TV for the next four years.
I'm more in line with Paul Rahe, and you may have read this already. It's not a happy choice.
https://ricochet.com/385888/an-open-letter-to-the-nevertrumpers-from-a-sympathizer/
"a near perfect Presidential candidate"
Only bested by TradGuy's #1 gal, Sarah.
Do you believe that Hillary Clinton has committed felonies?
If so, it's a case of Clinton's felonies vs. Trump's crudities.
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Best of all: DJT has promised that if he was POTUS, HRC would be in jail.
If there is justice and the laws as written are allowed to prevail Hillary and a lot of her minions will be in jail.
You are supporting the end of the rule of law. Better be committed.
Althouse might as well vote for Hillary!, since the vote counters will count her ballot in that column anyway.
If there was a depleted uranium rod in orbit ready to be released above Washington DC and wipe out the entire area I would vote for that. I would make sure the poor black people herded into the ghettos by the democrats got out first.
Lacking an SMOD option Trump is the next best thing.
"One Clinton voter I talked to did it to keep from having to look at Trump on the TV for the next four years."
Thankfully, most conservatives haven't thought this thing through that far down the line. Or, they just assume DJT will change and not be who he's been for 70 years.
It'd be so cool to see how long they could go on covering for an in power DJT. Already supporting DJTism has meant chipping away at conservatism (e.g. deficit spending $5 trillion more than HRC) and reality (vote for a dude based on his business success, but he hides business records (incl years not under audit.)) I'm pretty sure DJT could leverage media and Mexican (or whoever) ranting for quite a while before his apologists gave up. W made it eight years, and he would not go w/in a mile of the depths of scapegoating DJT would (has) served up.
Anywho, as a bonus rich folks will pay less tax, with less regulations, while the DJT led rubes cheer on, even as more of the nation's wealth goes upstairs to the winners who deserve it, like DJT.
I've been here since your "How Kerry lost me" got me at Instapundit. At this point, given all that has happened, I don't think you owe me an explanation. I am sure we'll be able to guess.
Ultimately we are all responsible, no matter how we vote, no matter who wins. This is crazy and sad.
Spin the feelings meter. It's how women vote.
They can't move out of their menstrual cycle, which they populate with interesting sidetracks to keep it familiar. This habit persists through life.
Guys abstract and progress.
Here, it's the principal/agent problem. How's that for abstraction.
The agent starts working in his own interests even against the interests of the principal who hired him. It's the standard mode of failure.
That's the establishment politico.
You're got to get rid of it. That's the guy thinking.
Women stay with do they mean will, will they say mean things about some woman, and other menstrual cycle quesstions.
So spin the feelings meter, girls. Vote for the one with the best line.
DJT: His junk doesn't work any more.
HRC: Her brain doesn't work any more--if it ever did.
Trump is a better future bet.
"If there is justice and the laws as written are allowed to prevail Hillary and a lot of her minions will be in jail."
That's the point I've repeatedly made!
If all you ranters about secrets being on an unsecured server really cared about this, you'd be going after the folks who put this info into an unsecured server. HRC received most if not all of these emails w/ classified info. All of these senders committed the supposed crime. So, obviously, as you legal eagles see it they should go to jail. If nothing else, to not look like this is a political witch hunt, cons should go after these folks. These folks sending the stuff is worse than HRC receiving an email. No classified info should be in normal email, incl a State email account. That's what nipper and sipper are for.
"All of these senders committed the supposed crime."
Yes they did. The entire US Government is not merely massively corrupt, it is massively incompetent. This goes without saying.
And anyone paying attention to security scandals in the news over the last few years could easily come to that conclusion.
Well, I for one really really value your comments and analysis and perspective Ms Althouse.
And I am persuadable by a good argument, even if from my comments it would look like I am not.
Given that you are a law prof and we have a SCOTUS opening I would love to hear what you have to say about which candidate would be better and why. You have better thoughts about this than many of us readers.
Your experience in Madison with Scott Walker and the Fleabaggers would also be instructive. How should we all behave when it is over? Who is gonna write our baloney Doctor Notes after this trauma?
Alternatively, I would take your thoughts in picture format with your great ink pen and a blank sheet of paper. Because that is what the new Presidnet has too. What should they draw when America buys them the best drawing pen there ever was?
Thank you for all you do here!! And best of luck in the Altexit!!
By the way...
Trump now appears more Presidential.
Anyway, it looks like he tamed the squirrel.
Pick the one who looks better in pants, because in a skirt, it's a tie.
The lack of any legal, political (or even press) accountability of Clinton, coupled with the smoking gun evidence of personal corruption of Hillary Clinton going back to the Marc Rich pardon, her pay to pay operation of the Senate and Dept of State revealed by Wikileaks. None of that could ever be true of a Donald Trump Presidency.
The fact that not a single elected Democrat has voiced the slightest concern about any of the pay to play actions of the Foundation and their speeches should tell you that Hillary can literally do anything to enrich her dynasty, to punish her political enemies and will never be impeached.
The same national press that covered the Watergate has revealed itself as Pravda for the Democrats and the Clintons in particular.
Well, I'm waiting somewhat impatiently for the supposed big wikileaks dump tomorrow. The one that will, according to internet rumors and innuendo, back up the rumors reportedly coming from the NYPD. If it comes, and they do, watching the #nevertrumpers do a screeching 180 will be fun. Gotta wonder how her true supporters will react
Of course, I'm also still waiting for the big BIG BIG news coming out 2 days ago on Wednesday that's going to destroy Trump's chances once and for all.
So, tomorrow will wikileaks turn from drip, drip, drip, to drip, drop, OMG the bathtub is overflowing!? I'm going for the overflow.
There's always the other stuff.
Voting Clinton means having a court more left wing than the general public would like. Voting Trump means the balance stays basically as it is.
Voting Clinton means 18 months of paralyzing scandal and controversy followed by 30 months of president Kaine. Voting Trump means four more years of standard acrimony.
Voting Clinton means further corruption of our institutions. Voting Trump means a purge that might (might!) leave a leaner better functioning administrative state. Or not. But at least it won't get worse.
It really comes down to how much you care about the rule of law. There have been enough wikileaks, Comey briefings, and general anonymous whistle-blowers to understand that Hillary and her crew hid from FOIA, compromised secret and top secret data, probably sold favors as SoS, and destroyed information that was under subpoena. If you or I had done any of this we would be in jail. (I held a TS and SAR clearance, I've had the in-briefing and know the consequences of even just careless leaving classified data unlocked.) Your Hillary shills (and some of the media) here will claim none of it is true and there were extenuating circumstances but the info is there to see and easy to understand that she boke the law.
So the choice is simple. Accept the corruption, defiance of the laws, and a lying that comes with Hillary knowing that the press and the democrats will do nothing to correct it or accept the foul mouth and shoot-from-the-hip of Trump knowing the press, the democrats, and even may republicans will be watching his every step and will jump all over him if he falters. Validate the bullying (as per Scott Adams), lying (public and private position) and coarsening of public discourse coming from both the Hillary supports and press or reject this behavior as unacceptable in the national conversation.
If Trump is really that awful, there will be an easy correction in four years.
If I had devoted my life to teaching the rule of law, I could not look myself in the mirror after supporting Hillary Clinton's actions. Your mileage may vary.
Oh, I had a HS acquaintance post on Facebook that if the media had done its job, Trump wouldn't be the Republican nominee. He obviously doesn't get his news from the same sources some of us here do. The media DID it's job. The Democrats WANTED her to face Trump, feeling he was the most easily defeated candidate. And the media helped create Trump The Candidate. Along with early open winner take all primaries with Democrats crossing over and voting for Trump. As Insty says, "Choose the form of your destructor!"
Another thing to wonder about- would the Democrat Party be worse off with Trump-Pence elected? Or with Walker-Cruz (my first choice) or Cruz-Walker (2nd choice)? And would wikileaks have done this slow release with another candidate? This is an odd election year. Trump as president is going to be wholly unpredictable. And it's looking more and more like President Trump is going to be reality.
"Voting Clinton means 18 months of paralyzing scandal and controversy followed by 30 months of president Kaine. Voting Trump means four more years of standard acrimony."
This is my favorite pro-DJT argument. I'm sure giving in to hostage takers is a good idea. IOW: 'vote DJT = or else the Rs will tear the country apart.'
It's like a baby splitting judgement thing-y: vote for the ones who don't threaten to destroy the country if they don't get their way.
Those are the ones who truly love the baby (country).
Pretty rare that any politician "wins me over." One exception in recent years was your Governor, Scott Walker. Really liked him a lot, and still do.
A Clinton Presidency promises to deepen partisan divides. Trump, less so.
Trump's Judicial nominations figure to be more idiosyncratic and less dogmatically orthodox. (But some SC Justices may hang on past their time because they want to leave when a Democrat is in office.)
Also, the accountability thing.
Also, Trump figures to have a better shot at developing good personal relationships with his adversaries.
Also, less Bill & Chelsea, more Ivanka.
no trump has succeeded despite the media, the 65 risotto tray carrying reports, the 91?% negative coverage, that includes the journolism
These next few days are going to an emotionally wrenching time, for some. So, let's deal with one argument up front.
Trump didn't lose this election because of the media, or election fraud, or because of Obama or the FBI. He lost because he is a fucking idiot who couldn't figure out how to keep the votes of educated Republican and Independent women voters. He had one fucking task in those debates, to woo women voters. Instead, he had to act out his fantasy of humiliating Hillary by bringing along an assorted lot of Bill's accusers and by calling her a 'nasty women'. I mean, if that wasn't an attractive look for educated women voters what would be?
It was always going to be difficult for Trump to win a national election as essentially a white nationalist candidate, but he could have done it if against the odious Hillary if he had not been so completely clueless about women voters. This guy is seventy years old, yet he seems to have learnt essentially nothing in all that time about how smart women think. It's pathetic.
@ARM, if you truly believe that Trump is a "white nationalist candidate" then he certainly will have lost due to the media, which made up the charges of racism and bigotry out of essentially nothing.
The real question for Althouse is what is the best choice this year to springboard Walker in the next cycle.
HRC wins = it's very unlikely she could extend the Ds for a fourth term, even if she wasn't a total geezer. So, this may open up the field. But, that didn't help Walk this time, so why would it later? And, now Pence would be in the mix.
DJT wins = It may be safe to assume that he'd be a disaster so Walk could take him down next time. But, it didn't take much for DJT to wipe out the Rs this time, so why would it be different when he's the incumbent such that he'd have the power to backup the vindictiveness that is currently restrained by Tweets and suing people?
I dunno.
I feel the same way.
Vote Trump. Do it for women.
He'll be grabbin' a lot less pussy in the White House fish bowl than if you leave him in the wild.
"How Althouse lost me."
Althouse lost Shiloh!
My, she must be devastated.
Trump can be abominable, but Hillary is an abomination.
No, Trump can be crude, but generally is just candid.
Hillary is still an abomination.
Prof. Althouse:
Are you comfortable with a President who would use opposition to Citizen's United - a court decision that it was legal to criticize *her* - a litmus test for the Supreme Court?
And are you comfortable with choosing a candidate who is covered for so completely by the media that the vast majority of the population essentially don't know that what that last paragraph describes is the reality?
Geez Louise Althouse, for a smart person you sure are an idiot. One of the candidates is the most corrupt, criminal, traitorous, incompetent major party candidate to run in our life times.
You have not figured this out yet?
Women should not be allowed to vote.
Do you reward the ridiculous media or send them a stern rebuke?
And what about the Democratic Party? Reward or message?
Do you double down on political partisanship and corruption at DOJ, IRS, etc.
Do you want to have to listen to the obvious lies and read the desperate spin day after day as Hillary's malfeasance is exposed? Ultimately, like Nixon, she'll be forced to resign. What will she do to her legacy and what will she put the rest of through before that happens?
Let her go back to Chappaqua and write a book. It's for her own good. It's for everyone's good.
http://www.vox.com/conversations/2016/10/12/13227642/charlie-sykes-donald-trump-republican-party-wisconsin-election-2016-hillary-clinton
It's about the Rule of Law, Ann. If you are going to vote for Hillary anyway, please don't tell us. I want to remember you as someone on the Left with integrity and honor. You are my Lot.
But if someone like you, who has dedicated herself to the Rule of Law, can throw all that away to support a woman who is clearly above the law, a woman who just 4 months ago squashed and FBI investigation and destroyed their rep, then there is no hope for this world.
Let. It. Burn.
Back in 2012 in the heyday of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, I took to reading the legal perceptions of Jeralyn Merritt over at TalkLeft, who certainly does not usually conform to any political view of mine but who shed light on the legal processes of that trial. The other day, I checked her site and found "Answering Trump: What Do You Have to Lose?" She started like this:
At a campaign rally over the weekend, Donald Trump asked people to vote for him, saying "What do you have to lose?"
It would take a book to answer that question. Shorter version: It's a suicide mission for America.
But let's just start with something simple, like how Donald Trump left Atlantic City when he was done with it.
Jeralyn points out that Trump opened 3 Atlantic City casinos, Trump Plaza in '84, Trump Castle in '85 and Taj Majah in '90. Before Taj Mahal had its first birthday, he filed for bankruptcy . Then followed 3 more bankruptcy actions ending in 2009. Trump Plaza closed in 2014. She concluded: Trump is gone from Atlantic City, but he left a miserable legacy. Just like he'd leave America.
Lenders to Trump's Atlantic City companies lost over $1 billion. More than 1,100 people were laid off. Additionally, untold investers, bondholders, and vendors got stiffed. And when Carl Ichan took over what was left, 1000 Taj Mahal unionists filed suit in vain to save their health care.
The New York Times explains that Trump bankrupted his casinos but made millions. Here's how he left the Taj Mahal:
Years of neglect show: The carpets are frayed and dust-coated chandeliers dangle above the few customers there to play the penny slot machines.
...He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen.
And the big Jeralyn finish which will fall on deaf ears because they believe his stupidity is a better choice somehow. A choce between two lying crooks is no choice at all.
What do Americans have to lose with Trump? Everything. He'd take the shirt right off our back and replace it with one made in China. The man doesn't know how to create jobs. He isn't qualified to be Mayor, let alone President. He's out for him, not you. Who in their right mind would trust him to control policy decisions about their social security or health care plan?
Of course, the biggest thing America has to lose with Trump is the 200 years of principles that have made us free, equal in the eyes of the law, and a beacon for others to follow -- along with our standing in the world and the respect of others.
But since that's apparently too nebulous a concept for his under-informed supporters to grasp, maybe they'll understand this better: The instability a Trump presidency would bring will make you unhappier and poorer than you've ever been. The effects of electing an unqualified, inexperienced, self-absorbed carnival barker, who has no idea what he's talking about on any issue and doesn't care to learn, will be felt by your children for generations to come. Donald Trump will be a change all right -- a devastating change, for individuals, their families and the country.
Not Really Reasonable: "Trump didn't lose this election because - "
Ya know, the problem here is that, come Wed morning, if you are wrong, you won't have the spine to show your face here and give a mea culpa for how obnoxious you are today. You'll just scurry off with the other cock roaches and hope we forget your arrogant ignorance.
No shame.
well obama left america, 20 trillion in debt, paradoxically with the smallest military since world war one, everything from north africa to the niger river basin in flames, this is why their is a massive migration into europe, through libya,
"I took to reading the legal perceptions of Jeralyn Merritt over at TalkLeft"
I was banned from there in 2008.
We need fresh new ideas every now and then.
Trump at least is in a position where he can listen to them.
As opposed to every other president in memory who's taken the same money from the same interests.
Think of how good the first Spiderman reboot was. The second Batman reboot.
Reboot America.
Hillary demonstrably relies on not-very-competent people. These are people who are only in it for the spoils.
Finally, consider the inclinations of the triumphant, triumphant again, and forever triumphant progressives. Notice how Hillary pushes us toward civil war with her triumphalism (like all sane people, I think civil unrest is disastrous and not to be yearned for). Notice how Hillary postures like she's taking us to war with Russia (is it just a posture?).
Think finally of how Hillary has consistently underperformed expectations, even with all the many favors she has to call on. Think of all the favors she owes now, because she's done so poorly she's needed to be bodily lifted and carried.
Think on how often Hillary drinks and appears drunk. How of the two she looks frailest.
Think on the surety that no male can credibly run for election again if Allred can produce 11th-hour victims.
Those are the ones who truly love the baby (country).
So true that Democrats do not want to split the baby!
Think of all the valuable organs that would be wasted. I would not say this kind of concern really conveys love of baby (country) though.
Fen, it's good to see you back. For a minute, we thought you might be Scott Michael Greene, the white supremacist woman abuser accused of killing two Iowa police officers. I guess sometimes profiling misses the mark.
Jeralyn: "too nebulous a concept for his under-informed supporters"
What an ignorant bigot. You have NO CLUE why people support Trump. 10 years ago I tried her site for a day then deleted her because she smelled like a speech Nazi. Glad to see my instincts were spot on. Saved me time.
And Jerlyn, when you want to educate yourself on why Trump has support:
http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/after-the-republic/
And geez, talk about being "under-informed"....
actually jeralyn's brief feint toward sanity in the sanford matter, was countered by falling for every iteration of the crump/julian machine, therein,
Fen,
Sykes has you pegged in the Vox thing I linked to up thread.
Embarrassing for you.
At least you've got plenty of company in these threads.
Carry on.
Fen said...
Ya know, the problem here is that, come Wed morning, if you are wrong, you won't have the spine to show your face here and give a mea culpa for how obnoxious you are today.
How was what I posted obnoxious? I simply pointed out the most obvious cause of Trump's failure to win if he fails to win. No conspiracy theory required.
Howard: thought you might be Scott Michael Greene, the white supremacist woman abuser accused of killing two Iowa police officers. I guess sometimes profiling misses the mark
Thanks. FWIW, I don't think you are a child pedophile, even though you smell like one on the internet.
[hint: take your porn down... and ewwww]
How Hillary says she raised her daughter (excised from audiobook but it's in the written edition):
When two combative former governors decided to run against Bill, we knew we had to brace
ourselves for a messy campaign. We discussed the situation and decided to prepare Chelsea so she would not be surprised or overwhelmed if she heard someone say something nasty about her father. It is not a pleasant duty, teaching harsh truths to a child, but we wanted her to develop the skills she would need to cope with whatever life sent her way. And we wanted to teach them in a way that would promote her confidence in dealing with the world, rather than making her cynical about it.
One night at the dinner table, I told her, “You know, Daddy is going to run for governor again. If
he wins, we would keep living in this house, and he would keep trying to help people. But first we
have to have an election. And that means other people will try to convince voters to vote for them
instead of for Daddy. One of the ways they may do this is by saying terrible things about him.”
Chelsea’s eyes went wide, and she asked, “What do you mean?”
We explained that in election campaigns, people might even tell lies about her father in order to
win, and we wanted her to be ready for that. Like most parents, we had taught her that it was wrong to lie, and she struggled with the idea, saying over and over, “Why would people do that?”
I didn’t have a good answer for that one. (I still don’t.) Instead, we asked her to pretend she was
her dad and was making a speech about why people should vote for her.
She said something like, “I’m Bill Clinton. I’ve done a good job and I’ve helped a lot of people.
Please vote for me.”
We praised her and explained that now her daddy was going to pretend to be one of the men
running against him. So Bill said terrible things about himself, like how he was really mean to people and didn’t try to help them.
Chelsea got tears in her eyes and said, “Why would anybody say things like that?”
Our role-playing helped Chelsea to experience, in the privacy of our home, the feelings of any
person who sees someone she loves being personally attacked. As we continued the exercise during a few dinners, she gradually gained mastery over her emotions and some insight into the situations that might arise. She took turns playing her father and one of his opponents, former governor Orval Faubus. She worked on her speeches and asked questions. For example, when she learned that as governor, Faubus had been responsible for closing Central High School in Little Rock in 1958, she mentioned in one of her pretend speeches that he closed schools to keep black children out, while she (Bill Clinton) would never do that.
Bill and I have continued our dialogue about politics with Chelsea over the years, helping her to
discern motives and develop perspective so that she can form her own judgments regarding what she sees and hears. Looking back, I am glad that we started to prepare her at a tender age, because by the time her father ran for President, we were even less in control of the messages to which she was exposed. Each time she went out into the world I ached, afraid of what or whom she might encounter.
But I reminded myself that we had done the best we knew how to do under the circumstances. We had tried to give her the tools to deal with the hurt from which we could not shield her, and we had to hope that as a resilient young woman, she would know how to use them.
Jon G,
Here's other folks reading her book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfAUED4tTKo
Just read Scott Adams. Pacing and leading is real. Look at what Trump has done to the conservative brand. He's shed it's ancient skin.
Shed conservatism's brand? More like gave it a new formula. Trump is New Coke. "What, are you going to drink Pepsi? If you're not going to drink New Coke, you own it!" isn't going to convince me to swallow a disgusting concoction.
I'll just take a Dr. Pepper instead, thanks.
"Nobody is really voting for a person" Correct. Try telling it to "how-so-and-so-lost-me" Althouse. With Hill you get the Hill posse and prog SCOTUS nominees. With Trump, you won't.
Vote for someone else. The way to reject an unacceptable choice is to reject both choices.
Just don't vote. Trump's an incompetent blowhard, and Hillary's an incompetent crook. Neither deserves your vote.
PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"Vote for DJT, he beats his kids when they drink alcohol in college."
11/4/16, 5:32 PM
Like Chirac said, you have a tendency to miss good opportunities to shut up. Spiros Pappas is a hard leftist and if he votes for Trump on the basis that he said you should stop talking and perceive what other people possibly even close to you are thinking.
Gadfly,
'Blabbity blah he bent me over the washing machine AND I LIKED IT!'
'We hates Trump! We hates it forever!'
ARM 9:01 ... Chickenshit.
Harold, ?
n, does your state let you revote after early voting? Perhaps you can fix it.
"This guy is seventy years old, yet he seems to have learnt essentially nothing in all that time about how smart women think. It's pathetic."
Not a significant portion of the electorate. Nor smart men for that matter.
The elite proposes, the hoi polloi disposes. For better or worse.
Sigh....
Ann, there are really two mature choices, voting for a third party is plain silly.
Choice 1: Trump - Buffoon who will have very limited power, who is a wild-card in so many ways, but who might be able to invigorate the business engine of the country, and might have the ability to clean out some of the corruption, because he doesn't have 30 years worth of political lackeys to place in government positions, he is likely to place people in those positions he believes will be able to manage them effectively. Trump will not be able to get away with much, simply because the press won't let them.
Choice 2: Hillary - Completely corrupt, with more baggage than Samsonite. She will do much, much worse than she has done in the past, which are clearly criminal. The press will go farther down the path of becoming a state-run entity. Recent emails show her forwarding classified emails to Chelsea. The far left will dig in and undermine academic honesty and integrity. Programs than the majority of Americans do not believe in will be forced in to bolster Democrat voters, which will have the same negative effects on the poor and middle class as they have in the past. The rich will be just fine as they always are.
We need a president who will be held accountable by the press, the legal institutions of our country, and our political institutions. Every day makes it clear that HRC is not that person. Vote Trump. They all hate him.
You dislike both Trump and Clinton, and you've admitted you're ready to hate the next president. If, after hearing all the arguments people have made pro and con for each candidate, you really can't find anything that makes one the lesser of two evils in your eyes, then why not just pick one based on who you'd rather spend four years blogging about? If you are convinced that neither one will have a positive impact on our govt, economy or foreign policy -- that both will fail spectacularly as president and we're doomed no matter who wins-- then pick one that will at least let you enjoy the decline.
For me, it boils down to concerns about the integrity of the Rule of Law. Chief among the reasons that the American colonies declared independence was the institutional disregard for the Rule of Law increasingly enforced by the British Empire, resulting in the treatment of colonists as second class citizens. Recognizing the inherent likelihood of such an outcome in a monarchy was an important part of why the form of the United States government became a representative one, with the powers of the government able to check each other.
In Hillary Clinton we find a candidate who not only has a rather long history of deception (if the worst thing you can say about a politician is that they are a liar, it's almost like praising them), but of using deception to evade legal consequences. On top of this are recent revelations about the extent to which her supporters have suborned the Department of Justice.
This is frankly terrifying (even without considering events like the IRS scandal). That A Clinton presidency would have both opportunity and self-evident desire to expand its influence, particularly through the appointment of unelected bureaucrats, puts this nation on a path to genuinely being divided between lords and serfs.
The first thing a Trump administration will do (because it will have to) will be to tear the tendrils of Clinton's corruption out of the federal bureaucracy, undoing the groundwork that Clinton allies have been developing across decades.
Perhaps, if Hillary had not been married to a sitting president less than two decades ago, this would not be so important--however, as it stands, the corruption is extremely deep.
At this point I feel that term limits are not enough, and that perhaps it is time to consider an amendment restricting the relations of the holders of public office from running for any office, perhaps within one or two degrees of separation.
Anyway, the terrifying state of the United States government which is now demands that lesser concerns be put aside. A nation which has lost in its political class both the respect and practice of the Rule of Law cannot get it back without inevitable conflict against those who flout it. In the cases of the American Revolution and Civil War, this meant bloody war.
For these reasons I must vote as decisively against Hillary Clinton as I can, which means voting for Donald Trump. I truly wish I had another alternative. But for as little as I expect from a Trump presidency, it will stymie our slide towards authoritarian government at least a while longer.
-MJL
You have been an advocate for gay rights for some time. Trump favored gay rights well before Hillary. His position seems to have been based on an effort to get along with people he worked with. Hillary's position has shifted with the political winds, and like most of her positions, could shift again if the wind starts blowing in a different direction. Vote for Trump.
I don't know if I want to do something so shameful in public
Voting for HRC or Trump is shameful. The only honorable thing to do is to vote against one of them.
I choose to vote against Trump. He's in this for his own interests. HRC is no better, but the Clintons are a spent force. There's a good chance that she won't survive her term. Not so with Trump. He's got incredible energy and the wiles to use government agencies to protect his own interests more effectively than HRC.
Go ahead Lucy, pull the football.
We all know you want to. None of us will be shocked. Disappointed, angry, but not shocked.
It's the nature of the scorpion, after all, to sting the frog.
AP is reporting now that Melania Trump worked for a month in the US on a travel Visa. She is said to have violated her visa, and should now be investigated to see if her citizenship can be revoked.
Basically she was paid and received valuables (rent, pager, taxi) while a tourist.
My God, she is like a Mexican! We need to build a wall to save us from the Europeans and Slavic hordes!
I'm a long-time lurker on this site.
Considering what we know about Hilary, I will not read any blogger who supports/votes for her. Therefore, if Althouse ever admits to voting for Hilary, I will never visit this site again. Not even for the beautiful pictures.
Relax. It doesn't matter who you vote for.
There are billions in graft at stake. The grifters will not allow Trump to win.
Peter J Barban said......if Althouse ever admits to voting for Hilary, I will never visit this site again
It's in her best interest to vote Democrat.
The Republicans would be a threat to her pension.
"I don't know if I want to do something so shameful in public."
Why not? Just about everyone else is doing it.
You know it's bad when the Librarian of Congress is a jerk. What's next, the Poet Laureate?
"The Republicans would be a threat to her pension."
The pension is likely pretty solid either way.
I believe the key to the success of the system the Founders created are the checks and balances in the Constitution. Hillary will be immune to those checks because Team Blue will back her no matter what. And the press has become little more than sycophants.
Trump will be continuously mauled by the press and closely scrutinized by the establishment in both parties. It is very feasible to see him impeached if there is any real malfeasance. The Republicans wouldn't mind running with a President Pence in 2020.
So given two such horrible choices, pick the one that will be checked. The Founders would understand. Once they stopped throwing up.
I voted for Darrel Castle.
But if I was in a battleground state, I would vote for Trump.
Hillary is rotten to the core. We know this, she has been in politics for decades, and it's always the same thing: secrecy, pay-for-play, lawyer lying even when it does not matter, and crushing any little person who stands in the path of her and her husband.
She will not change. She has given no indication that she even believes that she has a problem.
On the other hand, Trump might not be too bad. existing checks and balances between the branches of the federal government and between the feds and the states can contain a loose cannon like Trump.
I do not think that they can contain Hillary. The bureaucracies, and the judicial branch, and the Democrat party want her to succeed. They have decided that government is not about (small-r and small-d) republican and democratic order and shared prosperity, it is about a post-modern conception of civil rights.
Peter J Barban said...I'm a long-time lurker on this site.
Considering what we know about Hilary, I will not read any blogger who supports/votes for her. Therefore, if Althouse ever admits to voting for Hilary, I will never visit this site again. Not even for the beautiful pictures.
I doubt Althouse will vote for Hillary, although Wisconsin favors Hillary and is expected to vote for her with confidence. Just another reason I'm glad I got outta there!
Ombudsman said...
"Voting Clinton means 18 months of paralyzing scandal and controversy followed by 30 months of president Kaine. Voting Trump means four more years of standard acrimony."
This is my favorite pro-DJT argument. I'm sure giving in to hostage takers is a good idea. IOW: 'vote DJT = or else the Rs will tear the country
Ahh, yes. Hillary the innocent victim of those meanie Republicans. the normal punchline here is, "I'll have what he's having." Except that what you're having makes you a nasty deluded joke. Where you care about party, I care about country.
AReasonableMan said...
These next few days are going to an emotionally wrenching time, for some. So, let's deal with one argument up front.
Trump didn't lose this election because of the media, or election fraud, or because of Obama or the FBI. He lost because he is a fucking idiot who couldn't figure out how to keep the votes of educated Republican and Independent women voters. He had one fucking task in those debates, to woo women voters.
If Trump loses, it will be because of his weaknesses. You're right there. He beat the other Republicans by brilliantly exploiting their weaknesses, but he never overcame his own. But I disagree with your assessment of his fatal weakness. Trump's goal in the debates was to come across as presidential. He did that in the second and third (though the first was where it was most important, and he failed that time). His problem with women didn't become dire until the release of that tape, and there was little he could have done about it.
Trump's greatest weakness is also his greatest strength--his free-flow no holds barred style that puts all the substance on his website and all the bravado on the podium. He threw away his convention advantage by taking the Democrats' bait over the nasty-stooges Gold Star attack family. The tape was devestating and was released at the perfect moment (it made everyone forget about Hillary's "pneumonia" collapse). Any response would have been tricky and at best a partial success, but the one he chose ("nobody respects women more than I do") was worse than useless. He rested on a personal authority he didn't have.
Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"I took to reading the legal perceptions of Jeralyn Merritt over at TalkLeft"
I was banned From there in 2008.
That's liberals for you.
Blogger Gadfly said...
"Of course, the biggest thing America has to lose with Trump is the 200 years of principles that have made us free, equal in the eyes of the law, and a beacon for others to follow -- along with our standing in the world and the respect of others."
Wow. just...wow. And did you laugh out loud too when you read that bit of extraordinary (not just ordinary!) obtuseness? I mean really, sonetimes I think liberals are right when they describe themselves as the smart ones. After all, not just any mind can create a load of bull like that AND believe it.
Trump is our Brexit--a thumb in the eye of Globalists. Vote Trump. Pray Hillary finds jail with no term limits.
I don't know why somebody would rather put their earned pension in the hands of a spendthrift rather than a tightwad, but YMMV.
I think what is pushing me over the edge is the degree to which HRC and her close circle (like Cheryl Mills) chose to be so blatant in their lawlessness, The emails clearly reveal that even the most hardened Democrat political operatives were shocked by their behavior- and of course after they recovered from the shock they fell in line to help with the coverup.
Terms like bullying and gas lighting get thrown around too loosely but they are accurate descriptions of this behavior. With each lawless act she seems to dare people to try to stop her, and she amasses an ever expanding group of loyalists among the elites and the media who have to back her no matter what she does next. And all the while she convinces the Democrat voters that the things she obviously has done have not really happened- gaslighting.
I get buwaya's point about systems and cabals, and I agree...the people deciding how HRC will wield power and to what ends are largely behind the curtain. But I disagree that this isn't about the person of HRC because the particular way that she has amassed this power is very dangerous. Even more so when you factor in the general atmosphere of bullying at the left has already created AND the Teflon coating that comes with her being a woman.
So I'm fairly convinced now that this is a perfect storm of corruption that has to be stopped by any means. The cancer and chemotherapy analogy is apt IMO. If you are facing a malignancy you don't kid yourself that chemotherapy is good for your body, you just gird yourself to survive it so that you can rid your body of the thing that is killing it.
Jesus, Althouse. Just fuckin vote, already. Spare us the drama.
Go to YouTube and watch George Carlin explain why he does not vote.
Rusty, It's classic narcissistic personality disorder.
Almost any choice you can make would be ugly and futile. I'm still halfway tempted to close the curtain, make no vote at all, and open the curtain.
Althouse wrestling with her own soul would be way more interesting to watch than my local news's morons-on-the-street parade.
'How the Mainstream Media Coverage of the Election Lost Me'
That would be an interesting Blog Post, but probably would take way too long to construct.
You can't vote for Hillary thinking she's innocent. You can only vote for her hoping that by controling the DOJ she'll get away with her crimes.
Vote for the rule of law. Vote for Trump.
People who prefer Trump should vote for Trump. With luck they'll get some of what they want from a Trump administration.
People who hate Trump should vote for Trump. With luck he'll get nothing done, or fuck up badly enough that it makes the Dems attractive in 2020. But a Hillary administration will be more of the same of what we've had (on steroids), guaranteed to exacerbate all the conditions that led to the Trump phenomenon in the first place. So you'll end up with Trumpism on steroids. Is that what you want?
I have never seen a group of people so motivated to vote in my lifetime - speaking about Hispanics in my area.
Vote for Trump and free the Orgy Island underage sex slaves. Shut down Hillary's Thelema rituals using abandoned young children's souls to extend her nasty life.
What do you have to lose.
PBandJ_Ombudsman: Fen, Sykes has you pegged in the Vox thing I linked to up thread.
Not really. He still doesn't understand why Trump beat out my favorite (Walker) and the one I actually worked on the campaign trail for (Cruz). It's not a secret - anyone who reads Instapundit or AceOfSpades would immediately understand why - its because the Establishment Party (E) that Sykes so loves has sold us out again and again.
Trump is the symptom, poor GOP leadership is the disease - Glenn Reynolds. If the GOP had been representing the base in good faith over the last 8 years, Trump wouldn't have broke 9% in the primaries. Instead, the GOP treated us to what Ace defined as "failure theater":
"Failure Theater is the process by which the Establishment deliberately fails to do achieve anything, but wants credit from the Dumb Conservatives they’re playing to for allegedly “trying.”
Each of Boehner’s and McConnell’s “defeats” are in fact planned in advance. They are not trying to advance the conservative agenda; they are attempting to con conservatives into believing they have attempted to implement conservative policy, when in fact they were delivering their political deliverables to their Donor Class paymasters all along."
We simply do not trust them anymore. So we supported political outsiders like Walker and Cruz who had a history of not caving the first time Chris Mathews called them mean names. Fighters. People who would fight for us, not Establishment Party lackeys like Sykes who are more concerned about losing their table at Martha's Vineyard than they are over the fate of the Republic.
Embarrassing for you.
Embarrassing for him. How can a radio talk show host remain so out of touch with the base he is supposed to be representing? Here is just one example:
Sykes: "But I can tell you some of the things he is saying — about Muslims and immigrants in particular — is just way out there."
1) Trump believes immigration is good for the country, but that we should have rules about it and those rules should be followed. How is that radical?
2) Trump believes we should freeze import of muslim refugees until we fix our screening process so we can better weed out the muslim terrorists who will blow us up at our shopping malls. How is that radical?
See, it's Sykes that has missed the train. I'm glad he quit his job, he's an ignorant fool who thinks he's the smartest person in the room - like most Establishment lackeys. Good riddance.
I know you were trying to be insulting, and its out of character for me to not respond in kind and instead try to educate you... but you should consider that the forces responsible for the rise of Trump are the same ones responsible for the rise of Bernie Sanders on the other side of the aisle - the People simply no longer trust the political class.
Here is a good article that explains where my people are really at. Maybe you can forward it to Sykes, since he now has a lot of free time to read stuff....
http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/after-the-republic/
Anglelyne: But a Hillary administration will be more of the same of what we've had (on steroids), guaranteed to exacerbate all the conditions that led to the Trump phenomenon in the first place. So you'll end up with Trumpism on steroids. Is that what you want?
Damn, I've missed your analysis. You summed up the 3 page article below in 3 sentences. Nicely done.
http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/after-the-republic/
PBandJ_Ombudsman: in the Vox thing I linked to up thread.
I also noticed your Vox people are too chickenshit to allow comments on that article. Do you ever wonder why? Because its propaganda, and a correction by a nobody like me would easily nuke it.
I know you believe you are smart, but you are just swallowing propaganda. I advise you reflect on the slef-image you have as a someone who thinks for himself and consider that you have gotten complacent. Your ego is handicapping your intellect.
Amexpat said...
I don't know if I want to do something so shameful in public
Voting for HRC or Trump is shameful. The only honorable thing to do is to vote against one of them.
I choose to vote against Trump. He's in this for his own interests. HRC is no better, but the Clintons are a spent force. There's a good chance that she won't survive her term. Not so with Trump. He's got incredible energy and the wiles to use government agencies to protect his own interests more effectively than HRC.
11/4/16, 11:37 PM
Ha! Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha! Muahahahahahahahahaha...
Oh s*** that was funny. Wait, are you serious?
Johanna,
If you cast a blank or spoiled ballot, please assume that democratic election lawyers will manipulate that to their advantage, claiming perhaps that since other people in your District voted for Hillary, you must have meant to vote for Hillary. That's the kind of thing you're fighting when you vote for Trump.
CStanley, tim,
By Jove, I think you've got it!
This election is in your hands. Vote accordingly. You can save this Republic.
There is risk with Trump, of various kinds, but there's also risk mitigation in place that will not apply to her. With Hilary, there is no upside. Literally, nothing good can possibly happen in a Clinton presidency.
Ann, see Ari Fleischer's op-ed in today's WaPo:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ari-fleischer-heres-how-i-figured-out-whom-to-vote-for/2016/11/04/7bcee1ec-a1fd-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html
Om, if that's what he wants, I'd give it to him.
All of you unsure of going that last mile round vote for Trump, you could also thunk of it as redress for all the Den voter fraud:
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/pennsylvania-state-police-raid-registration-offices-voter-fraud-sting/
PA, OH, IN...
HRC is no better, but the Clintons are a spent force. There's a good chance that she won't survive her term.
"The people hate ObamaCare. Just you wait. Come election day, they won't give him another 4 years. So check your fire. We're not going to die on this hill. We're going to be civil and reasonable in the face of cheating. We're going to roll over so the people will see just how much of a tyrant Obama really is. That'll show him. Just you wait. Come 2012, the electorate will be swarming for Romney..."
The pep talk of losers. Not falling for that one again. If Hillary is in for 4 years, it will be 8. She will resettle amnestied illegals and muslim refugees in swing states by the millions. Giving the Left a perpetual lock on the Electoral College. One party rule forever. There won't be an opposition party, much less a 3rd party. Its game over.
Seriously, we lose this election, we fall forever. And those of us that have spent so much time and energy fighting a rear-guard action and controlled retreat for so many years would be best advised to leave the field and focus on family and hobbies instead. Because it will be over. America as we knew it will be gone by the time 2024 rolls around and there will be no chance to get it back.
There is risk with Trump, of various kinds, but there's also risk mitigation in place that will not apply to her.
Spot on.
The MSM and the Establishment Wings (E) of both parties loathe Trump, because he intends to upset their long con.
So, if a President Trump gets out of line, the MSM will eviscerate him (as the already do) and the Establishment will Impeach him before the ink is dry. Trump won't be able to tie his shoelaces wrong without them jumping his case over it. They will be on his ass 24/7 from day 1 till his last day in office. So Trump will be held accountable under the rule of law.
But if a President Hillary gets out of line, the MSM will censor the story, cover it with a pillow (as they already have done time and time again) and the Establishment will either cave or circle the wagons to protect her. We have already seen her successfully squash one FBI investigation and destroy the FBI's credibility. Hillary Clinton is above the law and will not be held accountable by anyone.
So it's a simple choice - you hold your nose and vote for the candidate that is not about the law.
I think what is pushing me over the edge is the degree to which HRC and her close circle (like Cheryl Mills) chose to be so blatant in their lawlessness, The emails clearly reveal that even the most hardened Democrat political operatives were shocked by their behavior- and of course after they recovered from the shock they fell in line to help with the coverup.
True. The arrogance and complacency re their Corruption is a good tell that they have been getting away with it for a very long time.
If we elect Trump, we can learn whether the system can be changed or whether the corruption runs too deep.
If we elect Hillary, there will be no doubt.
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