Women are less likely to speak up, and less likely to be heard, in groups that are mostly men... women are less likely to have their own ideas attributed to them....You just have to be more honest than Trump and it's not fair to view you as dishonest? That's just nutty. We should always question whether a politician is trustworthy. At what point is "the way" we question honesty sexist?
This is subtle sexism.... Subtle sexism is everywhere in this election, and not just from Mr. Trump. It’s in the way we question whether Mrs. Clinton is trustworthy, even though she’s been rated by PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, as much more honest than her opponent....
Subtle sexism is the fact that — while, indeed, Hillary Clinton has made mistakes — we judge mistakes more harshly in women, and remember those mistakes longer. It’s that she must strike a near-impossible balance between niceness and authority — a glimmer of weakness, and she doesn’t have the “stamina”; but too much harshness and she’s “cold,” “aloof,” “robotic,” scolded by a man who is all but frothing at the mouth for not having the right “temperament.”...From a news analysis piece, "The Subtle Phrases Hillary Clinton Uses to Sway Black Voters," by Farah Stockman:
When Hillary Clinton talked about race during her debate Monday night against Donald J. Trump, she delivered a subtle and powerful message to black voters, speaking to them not only in the substance of what she said, but in her carefully chosen language....The "subtle phrases" are, we're told, "systemic racism" — she said "We’ve got to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system" — and "implicit bias" — she said "I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police." What makes these stock phrases subtle? I think they're only subtle if they are subliminal — if they bypass your defenses. But these phrases are dropped in conspicuously, precisely to bonk people who like those terms over the head with the fact that she said them. Why wouldn't you be suspicious? Why wouldn't you think: Great, you said the words. I get it. You need my vote. But what will you actually do for me?
Some analysis by Amy Chozick, "Hillary Clinton, at Ease Onstage, Seems Utterly Herself":
When Mr. Trump interrupted her, she showed flashes of the steely calm she displayed during more than eight hours of testimony to a Republican-led House panel. As Mr. Trump spoke, she perched a leg in a subtle curtsy and calmly looked on. When it was her turn, she needled Mr. Trump by calling him “Donald.”Even her leg is subtle!
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84 comments:
"When it was her turn, she needled Mr. Trump by calling him “Donald.”"
-- I never understand why when people on the left go out of their way to be rude and annoy people on the right, it is presented as a positive feature.
"At what point is "the way" we question honesty sexist?"
-- When it is directed at a Democrat. The press had few, if any, issues of blatant sexism directed towards Palin, as opposed to subtle sexism directed at Clinton.
Hillary Clinton has made mistakes . . .
Mistakes? Kinda like saying WW2 was a "disturbance" and the Mt. St. Helens eruption was a bang.
It’s in the way we question whether Mrs. Clinton is trustworthy, even though she’s been rated by PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, as much more honest than her opponent....
LOL, that is comedy GOLD right there!
It is interesting how even four days later the usual suspects are still trying to parlay the debate into a win for Mizz Hillary, even though she has continued to loose ground against Trump.
"Manterrupted"
They say Americans today are flabby, but I'm thinking the muscles we use to roll our eyes have never been in better condition.
It’s in the way we question whether Mrs. Clinton is trustworthy, even though she’s been rated by PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, as much more honest than her opponent...
Logical fallacy: Argument from authority
To continue the joke, this won't pass a fact check: "Even her leg is subtle"
A subtle insult is an insult that wears a dress.
...steely calm
Do you mean like this, Amy?
One person's subtlety is another person's dog-whistle.
Hillary Clinton is an unindicted felon.
Most people are more honest than Donald Trump. Hillary is not most people.
Hillary's legs were so subtle on 9/11 she couldn't even feel them.
Remember this is the same Politifacts that rated Obama's "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" and reported that "In 2009 and again in 2012, PolitiFact rated Obama’s statement Half True, which means the statement is partially correct and partially wrong."
Half true. Yep, very reliable source. Reliably liberal, facts be damned...
Apparently it was the height of wit and class to call Sarah Palin a C U Next Tuesday. Because breeders, and shut up, that's why.
Anything less than full prostration at the feet of her royal thighness is seen as LesManjeste and Mantreason and Manrudeness.
That subtle curtsy was focus-grouped.
Women are less likely to speak up
Where are these women?
This is subtle sexism.... Subtle sexism is everywhere in this election, and not just from Mr. Trump. It’s in the way we question whether Mrs. Clinton is trustworthy, even though she’s been rated by PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, as much more honest than her opponent
Well, Hannity says Trump is more honest. He's as trustworthy as Politifact.
The "subtle phrases" are, we're told, "systemic racism" — she said "We’ve got to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system" — and "implicit bias" — she said "I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police."
Nothing subtle about "all you whities are racists!".
"Subtle" seems yet another way the great elite can legitimize their superiority over the great unwashed, uneducated rubes who don't support their candidate. "I know you can't possibly understand all of the subtle ways Trump is bad, so we'll help you understand. Now say thank you and go away."
I've read online comments about how wrong Trump was to repeatedly interrupt Clinton during the debate (and yes, I freely concede he interrupted her more often than she interrupted him). One poster wished that the microphone for one candidate be turned off while the other spoke.
Too bad, because I think the back-and-forth is actually bracing. I"m old enough to remember that moribund Bush-Dukakis debate which was expressly designed to discourage interaction between the candidates.
I find myself thinking, why can't debates in this country be more like the way Canadians debated back in 1988 (in this case, Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Liberal Party leader John Turner):
https://vimeo.com/26654849
Oddly, though, I wouldn't mind shutting off people's microphone during a live TV news interview, which I consider a different kind of animal.
Class diversity. Very subtle. Nuanced, even. Female chauvinism serves the interests of neither women nor men, and certainly not Posterity.
Subtle sexism is the fact that — while, indeed, Hillary Clinton has made mistakes — we judge mistakes more harshly in women ...
That's an assertion that is pretty easy to refute. There are men in jail for far less serious cases of mishandling classified information than what Hillary Clinton actually did. Consequently, if anything, the US government is going easier on Hillary, presumably because as a woman we should expect less of her. Or something like that.
Is Hillary giving dog whistles to poorly educated black and Hispanic voters? Or can only white people be poorly educated and capable of hearing dog whistles?
The Clinton are limousine liberals. Think of it this way: You won't have to put up with all that class struggle.
Of course there is subtle sexism - just as there is subtle racism. And they are deplorable character flaws - sexism and racism. There is nothing to defend there...
Such horse shit. Calling him "a Donald" is a "subtle" dig, good job Hillary. Of course if he called her Hillary instead of Secretary Clinton, that would be sexist.
Not such a subtle double standard.
It's "subtle" and "systemic" when we want to beat people with a stick that we can't really justify.
Why does anyone read the Times?
If dog whistles are subtle, what should we call Immanuel Kant?
Getting beheaded by Muslim terrorists will not be subtle, the 9/11 attack wasn't subtle though I have to admit the deterioration of our country the last 8 years has been apparently so subtle that a lot of us want 4 more of the same.
I figure if something is subtle enough, I can ignore it.
@MisterBuddwing
I'm pretty conservative, but I always liked Turner - he was just a decent guy who got handed a crap-sandwich by Trudeau. And Mulroney wasn't a particularly conservative Conservative anyway.
About this 'subtle stuff' - I encourage you to read this Op-Ed recently in the Seattle Times, where brain researchers hooked up predominantly white college students to brain scan machinery to scan their brain's reactions to bi-racial couples:
http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/a-hidden-bias-toward-interracial-couples/
Soft paywall. There seems to be a real push to see how much deep, subtle, unconscious non-PC stuff we can dig up - down to the level of biochemical reaction. To the point of reading brain scans. I must read too much science fiction, have seen 'Minority Report' too many times, or am just too deep into the mind of Philip K. Dick at the moment, but this stuff creeps the hell out of me. Excerpt:
"However, the problem with asking people to self-report their attitudes about sensitive topics is that they are often unaware or unwilling to report their own biases. Although most white Americans self-report little to no racial bias against black people, they tend to show robust implicit or unconscious biases.
To get around that, we next measured participants’ brain activity, recording the brain waves of a predominantly white sample of college students while they viewed 100 images of black-and-white interracial couples and an equal number of same-race couples (both black and white)."
Manterrupted, white splaining, man splaining.
I can call Sarah Palin every name in the book, mock Clarence Thomas, ridicule gay conservatives; all with total impunity. None of these white splaining charges will be made against me.
It's a giant con game by the left.
It's everywhere but subtle; explicit but implicit; obvious but hidden; institutional but personal; overt but covert; here but not here.
Regarding that last paragraph - when did you last see a picture showing Hillary!'s legs?
And the claim of women's voices not being heard in a meeting - if so, it is because they did not speak. When there is a crowd scene on TV, whose voices cut through the clamor?
Or, have you watched when a guest says something Megyn Kelly or Greta van Susteren sharply disagrees with?
unconscious biases.
How in Hades does one control such biases?
This is not a game, or foolishness, its propaganda.
This is all by design, Wormtongue as a profession and industry.
"Of course there is subtle sexism - just as there is subtle racism. And they are deplorable character flaws - sexism and racism. There is nothing to defend there..."
There is subtle everything, in all directions and for all reasons. The only important bit is what subtle this or that you choose to make important.
"Systemic racism"---words as subtle as being hit in the face with a brick. Not saying "systemic racism" doesn't exist or isn't a problem where it does.. but "subtle"?
No prejudice against white working class males, though... none whatsoever.
Anyway, yes it can be frustrating when someone else claims credit for your idea... but the thought that only occurs when men do it to women is, frankly, insane. Men do it to men, women do it to men, and the worst cases I have ever seen is women doing to to other women, where when called on it, the aggressor doesn't apologize or concede anything, but doubles down and even escalates.
But maybe my lying eyes and ears deceive me.
Clinton's supporters are even worse than Clinton, herself. I suspect that on some level they know they can't defend her record or abilities, so they resort to this scheisse.
buwaya said...
There is subtle everything, in all directions and for all reasons. The only important bit is what subtle this or that you choose to make important.
9/30/16, 12:53 PM
It is the "mental" version of "three felonies a day". When everyone is guilty, those that get to decide who takes the fall hold all the power. For some, it matters not if the penalties are criminal or social, it is all, always about the power to burn the right witches.
I liked the subtle way she used the word "utterly" while talking about Hillary Clinton, thus causing my mind to think of a cow and to think of Hillary as a cow.
"Of course there is subtle sexism - just as there is subtle racism. And they are deplorable character flaws - sexism and racism. There is nothing to defend there..."
...especially if one ascribes these deplorable character flaws to Others, but never to oneself.
Hillary gave the black community more of the hell they are going through right now. Competition for their jobs, rotten ass schools because of
The democrats are more beholden to unions and indoctrination than they are charters and vouchers. It will be a crime if she is elected, the inner cities will burn with her bigotry.
"However, the problem with asking people to self-report their attitudes about sensitive topics is that they are often unaware or unwilling to report their own biases. Although most white Americans self-report little to no racial bias against black people, they tend to show robust implicit or unconscious biases.
To get around that, we next measured participants’ brain activity, recording the brain waves of a predominantly white sample of college students while they viewed 100 images of black-and-white interracial couples and an equal number of same-race couples (both black and white)."
Odds of such a study being done on any other race ever?
When "liberals" (and by that I mean of course "tax-happy, coercion-addicted, power-tripping government sniffers and State fellators") say something is "subtle," it usually means, "I can't come up with any actual evidence, or make a logical argument based on evidence, for what I'm accusing someone of; but I want you to swallow the snake oil anyway."
Is there subtle sexism in those claiming there is subtle sexism?
Yeah, turtles all of the way down.
We're experiencing the "tyranny of the victim". If you're a member of a victim group - and yes, there has been terrible discrimination against women - then whatever you say, whatever your claim is, has to be accepted.
No one can deny the appalling mistreatment of black people. Or gay people. Or women. It's an awful, terrible past. But that doesn't mean that every member of those groups have absolute moral standing to make whatever statements they want. They are our equals; not worse than us but not better either.
C.S. Lewis: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
The phrase "systemic racism" is as subtle as a sledgehammer.
"It’s in the way we question whether Mrs. Clinton is trustworthy, even though she’s been rated by PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, as much more honest than her opponent...."
Who you going to believe, PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, or your own eyes?
sunsong wrote: Of course there is subtle sexism - just as there is subtle racism. And they are deplorable character flaws - sexism and racism.
Which means much of it is directed towards white males.
"Hillary Clinton has made mistakes . . ."
That was one of Trump's few scores in the debate. Hillary said using a private e-mail server was a mistake. As Trump said, it wasn't a mistake, it was a conscious decision to deceive.
She also said she "accepted responsibility". Really? What are the tangible consequences of her acceptance of responsibilty?
I'll be out of the country on election day. I held my nose and early-voted today.
Todd said...Remember this is the same Politifacts that rated Obama's "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" and reported that "In 2009 and again in 2012, PolitiFact rated Obama’s statement Half True, which means the statement is partially correct and partially wrong."
Half true. Yep, very reliable source. Reliably liberal, facts be damned...
Exactly. The one thing that's been a constant source of grim amusement to me this election cycle is when liberals squealing and crying about Trump's lies, distortions, and facts. They're the ones who made this bed. They're the ones who have distorted what a "fact" is over the past few years with sham operations such as Politifact, purporting to be the ultimate arbiters of what's "fact" and applying absurd qualifications to various lies spoken by their champions Obama and Hillary.
They're the ones who have muddied the truth, ignored the truth, equivocated, and obfuscated the truth for years now. Now along comes Trump, who certainly has told his fair share of whoppers, and lo and behold: He's actually getting away with it! How can this be?!
Welp, you can't distort the truth for years and expect there not to be consequences. You can't protect liars and crooks for years and not expect people to get angry about it. You can't present yourself as the arbiter of what's fact and what's a lie, then go on to distort and equivocate and not expect there to be a reckoning at some point.
have tried to destroy what
Todd said..."Remember this is the same Politifacts that rated Obama's "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" and reported that "In 2009 and again in 2012, PolitiFact rated Obama’s statement Half True,..."
Jesus...
The mediaswine refuse to distinguish between political BSing by Trump and a quarter century of betraying the public trust by Hillary.
So women wants to be treated as equals today but don't dare call them fat or interrupt them. That is misogyny or bullying or something.
If you like your internet, you can keep your internet.
Hollywood Lefties can call Ann Coulter a cunt a half dozen times on TV.
Subtle is often used as a synonym for nuanced, which I usually take as a synonym for bullshit.
Hilarious. They actually think this matters to 99.9% of the electorate? I'm sure it's returning goose-stepping Liberals to the Democrat fold all over this great land of ours.
They're as subtle as a punch in the nose, and about as welcome.
Even her leg is subtle? Sheesh. Her leg is fat. There's a reason she's called Cankles among the boorish crowd. They may well be boors, but they've got eyes.
As for "subtle", there ain't nothin' subtle about the New York Times full throated, not to say "unmuzzled" vicious pit bull attacks on The Donald.
Now if you want to read a more subtle dressing down of the Donald as hopelessly unqualified, read Dorothy Rabinowitz's op ed piece in the Wall Street Journal today. I'd like to believe that Ms. Rabonowitz was simply off her meds, but she has some deeply held beliefs about the unsuitability of Trump for the Oval Office.
That said we are still faced with just two realistic choices in November--one or the other will prevail. Do you want a Crook, or would you like a scoop of Crazy?
Well I'm going to vote for one or the other and come out of the voting booth thinking about the short two word history of the world. "Jesus Wept".
EMD said...
"unconscious biases.
How in Hades does one control such biases? "
You've missed the point.
The point isn't for you to control your biases. The point is for Jessica Bennett to control the conversation -- to delegitimize any viewpoint that differs from her own.
Not only is there no way for you to control or correct for your unconscious biases, there's no way for you to even know they're there except by noting that you hold an opinion that's different from Jessica Bennett's. Hopefully, you'll have the decency to be ashamed of yourself and self-censor.
Look how Colin Powell managed to grab the credit for the idea of a private email server.
From the NYT to the Arizona Republic to the Chicago Tribune to USA Today, it isn't really about the Donald's qualifications or his sexism (etc.). It's about his apostasy.
He has abandoned the political and financial elite for "them" - the hoi polloi.
"... a subtle curtsy"
I do not think that word means what Chozick thinks it means.
Can anyone imagine Bella Abzug or Betty Friedan genuflecting to a male speaker? I'm a few years older than Althouse, and while I can't speak for her, the feminism our generation embraced as young women entering the workplace was for equality of opportunity not gender based privilege replete with fainting couches lest a man dare challenge us. What odious twaddle these weak frightened women peddle.
The mainstream press is trying so hard to get people to like Hillary.
They should probably get a participation trophy; the kind you get for just showing up.
"It’s in the way we question whether Mrs. Clinton is trustworthy, even though she’s been rated by PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checkers, as much more honest than her opponent...."
A high bar, to be sure, but if she applies enough slime I'm sure she can slither under it thanks to her special girl powers.
Kabong!
Welcome, Susan.
Trump lies like a used car salesman. He'll do what it takes to get you in a car today.
Hillary lies like George Costanza.
Fact checkers, like lie detectors, are really only able to discern the first kind.
LOL alternate universe alert "steely calm" when you know your boss holds all the cards to be played [ compromised FBI director ] and you have the goods on said boss [ co conspirator used unsecure server and on record as having no knowledge of server ] what me worry? what a joke - but Nixon had to leave! HRC has learned well from slick willie what a duo, and she is the standard bearer of DNC one stop away from a banana republic.
Good God, you crazed females, Hillary's character flaws and personality defects are real, not something we infer because she's a woman.
Feninists believe that all women must be treated identically to well educated, middle-aged men who justifiably have earned a high position through hard work and sacrifice.
@Alp: And did they "measure" any black students' brain waves to see how they reacted to images of interracial couples?
I consider it a subtle victory that when Putin negotiated back Alaska for Russian rule Hillary was able to get 72 hours notice for the current residents to leave before their slaughter.
Trump would have of course only, at best, been able to negotiate 24 Hours for Alaskans to flee before systemic murderers bid Bon voyage on their quest to rid Alaska of American aggressors.
"Hollywood Lefties can call Ann Coulter a cunt a half dozen times on TV."
The great Mike Keaton as Batman said it best: You wanna get nuts, LET'S GET NUTS!!!
Please please please wanna get nuts, I beg of you.
Then I am a gonna put y'all in a dem chains, maybe even backlike as/ass it were.
Although I have greatly enjoyed a couple of her books, Coulter has made some too-stupid lawyerly cuntshit arguments to sell herself such that I consider her fair game. She understands media and Barnum and suckers better than I, I've a distinct lack of doubt.
Chelsea is too ugly and downright stupid to be fair game, unlike a Palin at any age or in any state.
They, Our Palins, can take it and dish only privately, as is the custom of Gods of The Copybook Headings extended posterity.
"Trump lies like a used car salesman. He'll do what it takes to get you in a car today."
Trump was and is responsible for, yes perhaps sadly first his ego/id, but also many others.
Businesses fail, for real, sometimes.
Meaning 10,000's of folks that had jobs one day do not the next, have a job that is.
This is a responsibility hard to fathom. It is easy to understand others, rich rich libertines, being greedy, but considering how they might feel liable/responsible for the state of affairs their family is left, both in matters of State and money, not to mention business partners and social contacts, is tough. Fraught with the peril of uncertainty and how that might affect you the potential peril-inviter. What if your comment was that of a wannabe used-car salesman because, at some level, you know you are unworthy that (not to you) meager label titled as such without obfuscation?
Trump risked it all by running, knowing "they are racist, racist, racist" has been and would continue to be the same old lazy sorry-ass excuse for the status quo. GOP hates You. They Hate You. GOP is bigots ruining your life with bigoted hatred. Something bad happen to you? THOSE DAMN BIGOTS CAUSED IT.
Everything good is because the 1960's Civil Rights Movement. This racist land of portly bigots started to admit to power those who hated her with forever passion, like a demon would work to end it, without redemption acknowledged as a mere possibility.
yes, she stretches an argument to the breaking point, but she has a decent researcher,
but you see it's alright to paint gosnell's girl, like a ford model, and hire a stripper to defame the huntress, thanks to larry flynt, and shadow her in tampa in 2012, that's just the name of the game,
The confusion arises did I bear/bare my soul: Has my soul bare/beared me?
Seward obvious made intemperate folly.
Duh.
They call it Seward's Folly dummy.
So we just gotta give it back. That's who we are as a people. Barack will applaudingly thank me for taking what once was his foie gras from his fork. I will convince him of the environmental.
Alaska.
Let's just give it to the Russians, okay, because Hillary will not be held accountable for every under-capitalized State of America, small in population or mass notwithstanding.
These excerpts are a micro aggression...as in micro scale intellect.
I remember hearing Donald going out of his way to get "consent" to address her her the way he did...tongue in cheek.."I want you to be happy"..but in context of the fun house mirror prism these highlighted excerpts reveal, strangely prophetic.
It wouldn't surprise me if he's just fine with "Donald". When she was blaming her coughing on an allergic response to him, she called him "Trump".
Now imagine if a candidate used the old school phrase "woman speak". Yet now..it is just fine for some to place a "man" before any objectionable behavior as if it belongs to one gender...whatever gender means.
Feminism itself is a subtle form of anti-male sexism.
Feminism itself is a subtle form of anti-male sexism.
When were they ever subtle about it?
It's turtles all the way down.
Cacklin' Rats.
The CAckling Rats.
I am not impressed with the "Fact Checkers" saying Mrs Clinton is more honest than Mr Trump. Given that they have given Mrs Clinton a pass on using an insecure server to conduct US Foreign Policy. That is such a reckless act that I can not express my feelings. And, speaking of careless, what about Libya? That was a terrible decision. And, since he gave up his nuc program and then we took him out, what kind of a signal does that send to Kim Jung-Un? I am guessing the signal is never, never, never give up your nuclear program.
Regards — Cliff
C R Krieger
Lowell, MA 01852
Was it subtle sexism that allowed the existence of a Bimbo Eruption Squad, led by Hillary, to smear those women her husband debauched? Or was that regular old "corrupt practices"?
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