October 5, 2014

The Mistrust List.

Interviewing Dan Pfeiffer (senior Obama adviser) on "Meet the Press" this morning, Chuck Todd put up what I'll call The Mistrust List:
I think one of your challenges though is a trust deficit that has been created over the last 18 months. I want to put up a graphic, whether you believe it's fair or not, it is a fact about all the different sort of government gaps over the last 18 months.
The heading on the graphic was "Trust in Government?" And it had the following bullet points, which I'm displaying here as Todd read them (with all the items, but some extra words):
  • Edward Snowden stealing NSA files
  • The VA fakes wait times
  • IRS losing emails
  • Healthcare.gov doesn't launch
  • The president himself saying, "U.S. intelligence agencies underestimated ISIS."
  • The DHS, the border failure with that surge over the summer, sort of failure, and of course...
  • The Secret Service. 
Why should we trust that what you're saying about the CDC is able to handle [ebola]? You understand why there's more skepticism than normal.
On "Fox News Sunday," Chris Wallace teased his panel discussion in a similar (if less hard-hitting) way, premising a question about trust with a list of reasons for mistrust:
[W]ith growing concerns over Ebola, the Secret Service and the VA and IRS scandals, can we trust the federal government to do its job?
Unlike Dan Pfeiffer who could only lamely assert that when there's a problem "we deal with it," George Will was particularly good at leveraging himself off the Mistrust List. I mean, Will was so good that I suspect the teaser was designed to go with the material he had prepared. From the transcript (with emphasis and punctuation added based on the audio):
Teasing this segment, you said: Can we have faith in government? I think we have much more to fear from excessive faith in government than from too little faith in government.
You asked, can we trust the government to do its job? What isn't its job nowadays? I just made a list of it:
  • It's fine-tuning the curriculum of our students K through 12.
  • It's monitoring sex on campuses.
  • It's deciding how much ethanol we should put in our gas tanks.
  • It has designed our light bulbs.
  • And it's worried sick over the name of the Washington football team.
Now, this is a government that doesn't know when to stop. The distilled essence — and here I get partisan, my friend — the distilled essence of progressivism is that government is a benign that is, disinterested)force — that's false — and (b) it is stocked with experts who are really gifted at doing things.

Republicans do this also. Democrats do it in domestic policy. The Republicans brought us nation-building and regime change. A common theme is the excessive faith in the skills of government.

198 comments:

John Lynch said...

Both sides are right.

Ann Althouse said...

Fox's own transcript makes Will look like he said "(b)" without having said "(a)."

I fixed that.

AReasonableMan said...

A bunch of molehills.

Let's take a look at a real problem. Microsoft hasn't improved on its Office software in twenty years and has arguably made it worse. And they haven't significantly improved their operating system since Windows 98. Private enterprise, the engine of innovation.



Big Mike said...

You have to work for the federal government in order to really mistrust it.

Ann Althouse said...

Actually, he didn't have an "(a)." I thought, from the transcript, that it should have been:

"The distilled essence — and here I get partisan, my friend — the distilled essence of progressivism is that government is (a) benign — that is, disinterested force (that's false) — and (b) it is stocked with experts who are really gifted at doing things."

But I listened a third time and the "a" is pronounced "uh." There's no way it can be interpreted as the "(a)" to go with the "(b)."

Chuck said...

Whatever the origin of your transcript, Professor Althouse, I think you got it right. At least it reads the way that I heard it. Punctuation can be more precise in prose, than in live speech.

My question for you is why you still bother with Meet the Press?

btw; While I think Fox News Sunday is clearly the best of the Sabbath Day Gasbags, I think they might do better without Juan Williams. I'd like a heavier-hitting left winger to do battle with (and get beaten by) George Will and Brit Hume.

rehajm said...

My question for you is why you still bother with Meet the Press?

...and this should certainly be asked about the NYT Magazine as well. But until something of substance enters and fills the void...

rehajm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

AReasonableMan said...
A bunch of molehills.

Let's take a look at a real problem. Microsoft hasn't improved on its Office software in twenty years and has arguably made it worse. And they haven't significantly improved their operating system since Windows 98. Private enterprise, the engine of innovation.


That's ignorant as hell. Windows 7 is a terrific Operating System, order of magnitude, at least, better than Win 98, which was great for its day.

Do you just post whatever the hell you what, without research, facts or reasonableness?

Your handle is a parody, right?

Paddy O said...

"Microsoft hasn't improved on its Office software in twenty years"

That's clearly silly.

I use Office everyday, mostly Word and Powerpoint, with Excel less regulary. The most current version is entirely better than the 90s version, especially in terms of collaboration and review for Word and multimedia for Powerpoint. The newer Powerpoints also have excellent audio linking which allows to record a lecture in time with slide points and advancing, exporting it as a video for youtube, etc.

Carl Pham said...

Private enterprise, the engine of innovation.

You moron, nobody preaches or exhibits "trust" in private enterprise the way they do in government. Nobody suggests Microsoft be given the power to lock people up in jails, fine them everything they have, or even execute them in pursuit of noble social goals. Nobody suggests Microsoft could or should guarantee the health or financial security of everybody over age 65, or achieve optimum circumstances to maximize scientific advance, or broker peace in the Middle East, or defend the entire country against terrorism and Ebola and programmers in India offering to build apps for 80% less salary.

All anybody asks MSFT to do is build operating systems that are approximately worth what they cost, a very precise and measureable challenge, and one about which everyone's self-interest (not to mention the occasional loony bomb-thrower such as yourself) serves very well as a gimlet-eyed quality-control inspector. What faith there is in the private sector is certainly no higher than it deserves to be.

I mean, talk about a straw man so ludicrous it qualifies as the non sequitur of a TV talking head or microcephalic.

Hagar said...

@Big Mike,

Amen! brother!

Anonymous said...

For most people the only Trust in Government they require is that the check comes in on time. Everything else is just everything else.

m stone said...

beta: "For most people the only Trust in Government they require is that the check comes in on time. Everything else is just everything else."

A lot of truth in that and if the checks are few, we the people are better off. Feeding out of the public trough is another matter.

But you can't avoid government intrusion in education, health care, social issues, and absence of foreign policy whether you try or not.

Mistrust is needed and ideally should lead to more intelligent voting and electing better candidates.

Anonymous said...

When dealing with Government the same applies:

You see, a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.

Michael K said...

"All anybody asks MSFT to do is build operating systems that are approximately worth what they cost"

ARM doesn't understand this. I have used Macs since 1994. I was using Word and the Office suite but now, on one of my laptops, I am using a free Apache product that seems to do everything Office does. If it doesn't, I will buy another copy of Office.

This concept appears to be foreign to ARM.

Also, Ebola is not a "molehill." It would be interesting to have a discussion with ARM about the importance of doctors who will have to treat Ebola with new drugs derived from evolutionary understanding of anti-virals but private enterprise, which will have to produce the drugs, seems to be a mystery to him.

cubanbob said...

AReasonableMan said...
A bunch of molehills.

Let's take a look at a real problem. Microsoft hasn't improved on its Office software in twenty years and has arguably made it worse. And they haven't significantly improved their operating system since Windows 98. "

I don't see government getting any cheaper or better in that time frame either and things are inarguably worse now than back then. All thanks to government. Now that is the real problem, not Microsoft.

Jane the Actuary said...

You want a real downer, read "The Rule of Nobody" which I read last night and blogged about today. (http://janetheactuary.blogspot.com/2014/10/from-library-rule-of-nobody-saving.html)

So government is not just screwing up its core functions, and intervening in all kinds of ways it shouldn't, but its bureaucracy is, according to the author, so soulless that it's tremendously destructive, causing immoral behavior (abusive nursing home aides who follow the regulations to a T but exhibit no humanity) and preventing moral behavior (the firemen who don't rescue because it's against regulations).

The bottom line is that the incidents you cite, and that this book cites, are not just unfortunate coincidences, but are, big picture, illustrations of what is wrong with American government today.

AReasonableMan said...

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
Windows 7 is a terrific Operating System,


Windows 8 is the current version.

cubanbob said...

Interviewing Dan Pfeiffer (senior Obama adviser) on "Meet the Press" this morning, Chuck Todd put up what I'll call The Mistrust List:
I think one of your challenges though is a trust deficit that has been created over the last 18 months. I want to put up a graphic, whether you believe it's fair or not, it is a fact about all the different sort of government gaps over the last 18 months"

Hate to break it to F. Chuck Todd but this Administration has been trust and truth challenged since 20 January 2009. Ole Chuck has very slow nerve conductivity.

Here is a clue Chuck: trust is earned and so far neither this Administration or you and your employer have done anything to earn it.

cubanbob said...

AReasonableMan said...
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
Windows 7 is a terrific Operating System,

Windows 8 is the current version.


10/5/14, 3:03 PM"

8.1 is the current version, MSFT has realized it's mistake and the next version supposedly will restore the features of Win 7 that the desktop computer public likes not to mention there is always Mac OS and other OS out there for those who prefer something else.

Government on the other-hand especially when run by Democrats keeps doubling down on stupid and unlike the private sector I can't pay my taxes a la carte and decide which programs I like and which I don't want or switch providers.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
I am using a free Apache product that seems to do everything Office does.


No argument from me.

This constant drumbeat of government is bad, government is bad, ad infinitum gets old after a while. All large organizations have problems, as do small ones e.g. Pimco. Making problems seem worse than they really are is not rational, except to gain partisan advantage, and if that is the sole goal then it is just a time waster. The US government has problems but they have to be kept in perspective relative to most governments. And, many of the problems relate to the Republican's partisan attack on the government and the appalling misgovernance of the Bush era.

Fred Drinkwater said...

Carl Pham: Thanks for the lovely rant. Should be an essential part of every 15-year-old's education.
And 16, and 17 and 18, and (certainly through the age of eligibility for Congress)... until they GET IT.

Fred Drinkwater said...

"The US government has problems"
Yes. They have too much money.
(Actually, they have a fancy line of credit, obtained through bribery and extortion, and an equally fancy ego to match.)

David said...

AReasonableMan said...
A bunch of molehills.

Let's take a look at a real problem. Microsoft hasn't improved on its Office software in twenty years and has arguably made it worse. And they haven't significantly improved their operating system since Windows 98. Private enterprise, the engine of innovation.


Right on ARM!! This is also why:

Kodak still dominates photography.
Xerox is the leader in information services.
Oil and gas production in the United States is declining.
GM is a dangerous monopoly.
Motorola dominates cell phones and satellite communications.
Sears dominates retail.
Sony is the greatest consumer electronics business.
Microsoft's web browser gives them an unfair advantage.
Long distance is so expensive.
The Soviet Union will bury us.
etc etc etc

David said...

Hey, for mistrust, nothing can beat having to be a Lions or Bears fan.

Buffalo 17, Detroit 14 (at Detroit)
Carolina 31, Chicago 24 (at Carolina)

Chicago had the lead 21-7, and Detroit 14-0.

It's still a long season, but today is a good day to be a Packer fan.

Lance said...

"And, many of the problems relate to the Republican's partisan attack on the government and the appalling misgovernance of the Bush era."

You seriously think the partisan attacks on government are limited to Republicans? For the last 80 years, all we've heard from Democrats is that government is inadequate, too small, and focused on the wrong priorities. Where do you think Obamacare came from?

JRoberts said...

Nice "squirrel" there ARM.

I remember reading a commentary shortly after hurricane Katrina.

The main point was: Government is a false god. Eventually, every false god disappoints.

How true.

AReasonableMan said...

Lance said...
Where do you think Obamacare came from?


A desire to provide medical insurance for people with pre-existing conditions and the working poor.

Humperdink said...

ARM said: This constant drumbeat of government is bad, government is bad ..."

No, the government sucks. I was notified last week by my health insurer that my policy, because it does not comply with Idiotcare regs, will be cancelled December 31, 2014.

As a small business person, I pay my own premiums and have had the policy for 20 years.

I am 63.5 years old. Great timing.

The Crack Emcee said...

And anyone who says you're ALL nuts - except George apparently - is open to attack.


Great country, brilliant people,....


Crack

The Crack Emcee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

It's predictable that the same people who fear private monopolies which do not favor their interests, welcome authoritarian (i.e. left-wing) monopolies when they do favor their interests. So much for separation of "church" and state.

It's not a coincidence that the greatest violation of human rights was and is carried out by authoritarian governments, not ad hoc groups. That the greatest incidents of misaligned development are cause by government. It's not a coincident that secular societies will, sooner than later, demand and expect a shift to a universal frame (i.e. faith-based).

It's not a coincidence that the same regimes sponsor the murder of around 50 million human lives annually, 2 million in America alone.

I suppose a reasonable moderation of minority rule is impossible when a large minority, and perhaps majority, benefit politically, financially, and socially. A reasonable construction of society is impossible in light of unbacked redistributive change, which ultimately corrupts the providers, recipients, and society.

Anyway, government (i.e. authority) has a role to play in society, but it is prone to suffer a dysfunctional convergence when an incentive exists for its progress.

It's dissociation of risk which is the opiate of the masses and elites.

AReasonableMan said...

JRoberts said...
The main point was: Government is a false god.


Anyone foolish enough to elevate any human organization to the level of a god gets what they deserve. The problem is that Republicans have come to genuinely believe that the government is the devil, an all powerful evil god, with predictably disastrous results. It is a sad and wasteful misuse of time and energy.





furious_a said...

Making problems seem worse than they really are...

The Administration pays people like Pfeiffer to beclown themselves on nat'l televesion, and here you are doing it for free, like a sucker.

Weaponized IRS destroying documents to be held under discovery (see now "NetJets"), Secret Service incapable of guarding a school crossing, CDC bumbling Ebola containment...

...and that's just last week.

AReasonableMan said...

David said...
Oil and gas production in the United States is declining.


Might want to update this cultural reference.

AReasonableMan said...

furious_a said...
Weaponized IRS destroying documents to be held under discovery (see now "NetJets"), Secret Service incapable of guarding a school crossing, CDC bumbling Ebola containment...


I guess that you must be receiving a regular check from the RNC, or did they fail to mail it this week?

The Crack Emcee said...

Libs think Im a demon because Im a Republican.

Republicans reject me because I hate their racism.

Both think they're sane and are allowing me to be free - when neither is.

Pure madness,...

furious_a said...

The Obama Admin is like a box of chocolate #FAIL -- you never know what's going to blow up in President Light Worker's face next.

ARM's going to need more SQRRRRL!!!.

cubanbob said...

The US government has problems but they have to be kept in perspective relative to most governments. And, many of the problems relate to the Republican's partisan attack on the government and the appalling misgovernance of the Bush era."

True its not as bad as North Korea or any of the other remaining worker's paradises or other third world disasters but that is a very low bar to exceed. As for Bush, the Bush years are on average far better than than the last five and a half years and will probably be better than the next two and a half years. Bush was a light weight in misgovernance compared to the current lot of idiots, fools, crooks and sheer incompetents that currently govern us.

As for Republicans as you put it in believing government is the source of all evil, well that isn't true but it sure does a great job of enabling it.

jimbino said...

Re "Healthcare.gov doesn't launch," it should be noted that "launch" is a transitive (only) verb and, as such, must take an object.

In proper English, one says, "Healthcare.gov hasn't been launched" or "Healthcare.gov wasn't launched" or maybe "some jackass failed to launch Healthcare.gov".

AJ Lynch said...

Carl Pham - that was a fantastic comment- thanks!

cubanbob said...

AReasonableMan said...
furious_a said...
Weaponized IRS destroying documents to be held under discovery (see now "NetJets"), Secret Service incapable of guarding a school crossing, CDC bumbling Ebola containment...

I guess that you must be receiving a regular check from the RNC, or did they fail to mail it this week?

10/5/14, 3:52 PM"

The RNC doesn't hand out dole checks. That is done by the operational arm of the DNC a/k/a the Welfare State. You on the other-hand apparently are getting your checks on time.

Jupiter said...

AReasonableMan said...

"This constant drumbeat of government is bad, government is bad, ad infinitum gets old after a while. All large organizations have problems, as do small ones e.g. Pimco."

Pimco doesn't take my money at gunpoint, and use it to finance activities that I despise. Is it really so hard for a Reasonable Man to understand that the ability and willingness of the government to use lethal force to back up its every least whim makes its failings vastly more consequential than those of the private sector?

When Microsoft made a mistake (Windows 8), the market applied a swift corrective to the seat of its pants, where its wallet is located. When the government makes a mistake (Head Start, HUD, USDA, DOE (both of them) ... ) we live with it -- and pay for it -- forever. At gunpoint. At gunpoint. There are people in federal prisons because they didn't want to pay for a Space Program that wastes tens of billions of dollars to incinerate schoolteachers.

Seeing Red said...

The boomer generation was all about mistrusting the government or

"The Man."

Now they're in charge, they whine.

Anonymous said...

Please 'A Reasonable Man,' stop digging.

Your reason seems attached to a set of ideas you aren't basing in fact enough to convince me of anything.

I currently work with Microsofties, and Microsoft deserves its share of criticism to be sure, but that comment really shows you don't know much whereof you speak

Seeing Red said...

Bwaaaa.
Then all they had to do was expand Medicare and leave the rest of us and that market alone.

Reasonable.. Lololol

Seeing Red said...

Expand Medicaid. not Medicare.

Jess said...

History teaches that any government entity can't be trusted. Then again, history teaches that people can be lead like domestic livestock.

furious_a said...

Seriously, ARM, you're going to need more cowbell.

AReasonableMan said...

Jupiter said...
Pimco doesn't take my money at gunpoint, and use it to finance activities that I despise.


I don't like all the money wasted on foreign wars either, but I don't constantly whine about it (well I do a bit).

If you don't like our current form of government there are many others to try. The fascists are always eager to expand their franchise.

cubanbob said...

AReasonableMan said...
Jupiter said...
Pimco doesn't take my money at gunpoint, and use it to finance activities that I despise.

I don't like all the money wasted on foreign wars either, but I don't constantly whine about it (well I do a bit).

If you don't like our current form of government there are many others to try. The fascists are always eager to expand their franchise.

10/5/14, 4:16 PM

The communists are also eager to expand their franchise. So what's your point? Besides operationally their ain't a dime's difference between a fascist and a communist so other than you prefer one brand of hot sauce versus another brand of hot sauce what are you saying, that those who don't share your taste in governance should leave?

A lot of people don't like our current form of government, those folks tend to belong to the TEA Party or Libertarian Party or other smaller government movements. You have something against them? If they have their way and finally are able to shrink government to a more useful and manageable size for those who prefer more personal freedom and less of a burden on them are you going to depart to somewhere where government is more to your liking?

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
furious_a said...

Seriously, ARM. I can't tell if it's an Onion article or something President Hardly Workin' actually said:

I think the analogy we use around here sometimes, and I think is accurate, is if a JV team puts on Lakers uniforms, that doesn’t make them Kobe Bryant. -- Barack Obama

Anonymous said...

The difference between the government and Microsoft is that if you like the OS you have now you really can keep it.

Jim said...

If you like your OS, you can keep it.

Michael K said...

"The problem is that Republicans have come to genuinely believe that the government is the devil, an all powerful evil god, with predictably disastrous results. It is a sad and wasteful misuse of time and energy. "

This is a mythical view that is widely believed on the left. Republicans, the vast majority, think government is just too big. It tries to do too many things and very large bureaucracies tend to get like dinosaurs. A lot of what the federal government does would be better done at the state or local level. Some of this is a remnant of the Civil Rights era when some states had abused their power. That was 50 years ago.

I don't think it is evil but I do see some people who enjoy their power too much, just as Lord Acton predicted.

Quaestor said...

A Reasonable Man wrote: Windows 8 is the current version.

Wrong! But that's to be expected. Consider the source.

Henry said...

ARM wrote:

Let's take a look at a real problem. Microsoft hasn't improved on its Office software in twenty years and has arguably made it worse. And they haven't significantly improved their operating system since Windows 98.

ARM displays a sense of humor! And sidetracks the humorous post with a well played, humorous analogy. The Royals are in the playoffs!

SomeoneHasToSayItWrote:

That's ignorant as hell. Windows 7 is a terrific Operating System.

Correct. But notice that Office is not mentioned. The one, truly great program in Office was Excel -- and Microsoft bloated it to hell.

ARM counters with: The US government has problems but they have to be kept in perspective relative to most governments.

A tell! Inadvertent humor! Ineffective bureaucracies are the worst form of government except for all the other ineffective bureaucracies. The Sun King himself would be proud.

Michael K wrote: I am using a free Apache product that seems to do everything Office does.

LibreOffice? Oy. Personally, I use Google Docs.



tim in vermont said...

"A reasonable man has zero problem with the party in power using the IRS to investigate, undermine, and otherwise disempower the opposition party because, well, as far as he is concerned, "all of the assholes are on the other side!"

If it were Republicans doing it to Democrats, A Reasonable man would no doubt be apoplectic.

We have a historical precedent as to how Republicans would respond to such a case, when Nixon tried to do it to Democrats, Republican Senators went to him and asked him to resign.

Quaestor said...

That ARM posts comments full of misinformation and moronic opinions is to be expected. What's both amusing and distressing is how many reliably thoughtful commenters have gone merrily traipsing after the shiny squirrel he released.

tim in vermont said...

I would be very interested in hearing ARM's description of Fascist economics and how it differs from that of Obama.

You know, in specific terms, not bluster, outrage and the idea, and rhetorical questions.

For an example of fascist economic ideas, here is a quote from Robert F Kennedy Jr.

This can be accomplished through an existing legal proceeding known as “charter revocation.” State Attorneys General can invoke this remedy whenever corporations put their profit-making before the “public welfare.”

Bobby the Fascist was suggesting this as punishment for corporate speech.

AReasonableMan said...

Henry said...
Correct. But notice that Office is not mentioned. The one, truly great program in Office was Excel -- and Microsoft bloated it to hell


And didn't deal with decades old problems.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Liberal politicians know we the Great Unwashed, are too stupid to run our own lives. So they must take control for us because no matter how fucked up government may be, their leadership is better than what the people would do on their own.


Camille Paglia, "Yes, something very ugly has surfaced in contemporary American liberalism, as evidenced by the irrational and sometimes infantile abuse directed toward anyone who strays from a strict party line. Liberalism, like second-wave feminism, seems to have become a new religion for those who profess contempt for religion. It has been reduced to an elitist set of rhetorical formulas, which posit the working class as passive, mindless victims in desperate need of salvation by the state. Individual rights and free expression, which used to be liberal values, are being gradually subsumed to worship of government power.

furious_a said...

The US government has problems but they have to be kept in perspective relative to most governments.

What complete and utter bullsh*t.

What a pathetically and revealingly low bar. Relative to...public health protocols in Liberia?...Solyndra cronyism in China?...weaponized bureacracies in Venezuela?...state propaganda in Russia?...border controls in Syria?

David said...


Lance: "Where do you think Obamacare came from?"

ARM "A desire to provide medical insurance for people with pre-existing conditions and the working poor."


Unfortunately it was another case of the performance not being up to the level of desire. Do you suppose government has performance anxiety?

Michael K said...

" The one, truly great program in Office was Excel -- and Microsoft bloated it to hell"

I used Quattro Pro for years. Among other things, the developer is one of the great minds of the early computer years, plus he is a great sailor.

Excel came along later.

The Godfather said...

Do you remember those quizzes where they asked you “Which one is not like the others?” Look at the Meet The Press List and the George Will list. The Meet The Press list deals with functions that, by and large, we would all agree are proper, indeed essential, functions of the federal government: Foreign intelligence, maintaining Government records, regulating entry into the country, protecting the President. Even the foul-up of Healthcare.gov fits in that group in the sense that the Government is expected to provide access to its programs (even if you think, as I do, that Obamacare shouldn’t be a Government program).

Will’s List, on the other hand, is focused on things the federal Government shouldn’t be doing at all: designing elementary and secondary education, telling colleges how they must deal with misconduct claims, how much corn we should have in our gasoline, and what kind of light bulbs we can buy.

From this I take two lessons. First, even if the Government were as competent as Obama promised he would make it, and as Hillary! is now promising she would make it, the federal Government ought to keep it’s big, fat intrusive nose out of a whole Hell of a lot of stuff, because it’s none of their damn’ business. And second, we’d have a better chance of receiving competent government services if the Government would focus on those functions that properly belong to it, and leave the stuff on Will’s list alone.

By the way, in an effort to appear non-partisan, Will accuses the Republicans of bringing us “nation-building and regime change”. Criticize how the Bush Administration handled these issues if you want, but dealing with (perceived) threats to our country from unfriendly foreign regimes is clearly a proper, a vital, Government function. Eight years of Bush led to a fragile democracy in Iraq and an Afghanistan in which the Taliban was no longer in charge (although not defeated). Eight years of Clinton led to 9/11. Six years of Obama led to the Islamic State, Benghazi, Ukraine, Syria, etc. And the damn’ Washington football team is still called the “Redskins”! Can’t they do anything right?

The Crack Emcee said...

Seeing Red,

"The boomer generation was all about mistrusting the government or

"The Man."

Now they're in charge, they whine."

Damn, y'all's tiring:

Every time a black comes along to help, like MLK, whites shoot him in the face - or deny they have a problem while marginalizing him to "race hustler" - and then claim they're the good guys.

Against such blood thirsty assholes - who see nothing wrong with THEIR BEHAVIOR - whining is about all anyone (who isn't willing to use such tactics) can do.

And you have a problem with that as well.

What none of you assholes can admit is you're ALL ideological madmen - Right and Left - with the blacks you've rendered almost powerless in the middle. (Don't mention the AA in the White House, because I've seen how every time he says something "black" you assholes blow torch him, so fuck you.)

You're all a bunch of murderous babies with no interest in the country what-so-ever:

You just want white supremacy to have it's way,...

Paco Wové said...

Meanwhile, VP Biden is hard at work pissing off other nations left and right.

AReasonableMan said...

furious_a said...
What a pathetically and revealingly low bar.


OK Let's pick the best governments. I give one vote to Germany, they run a decent and fair economy.

The Crack Emcee said...

YOU CAN'T TRUST GOVERNMENT! YOU CAN'T TRUST GOVERNMENT!

Unless you were black and wanted to go to a white school - then government stepped in and did a fine job.

Unless you were black and wanted a Civil Rights bill - then government stepped in and did a fine job.

Unless you were black and needed assistance because the whites were racist assholes determined to make our lives difficult - then government stepped in and did a fine job.

Unless you were black and wanted to fight racist housing policies that excluded us - then government stepped in and did a fine job.

I could go on.

You racist bastards, with your harping on government intervention that stops your racist behavior, fools no one who understands white's role in American history,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Paco Wové,

"Meanwhile, VP Biden is hard at work pissing off other nations left and right."

Gee, how could that happen?

Maybe because - in the same month you cowards were tripping over ISIS beheading 2 people - Saudi Arabia beheaded 19 and you still consider them our friends.

Biden pissed them off?

This COUNTRY should be done with them,...

Drago said...

I'll wait for betamax to stop by to give us a coherent "angry black man ranting on the corner" take on things.

pst314 said...

I see that Crack has showed up again, trying to hijack the thread into another "conversation" about how all white people are racists.

Good Lord, what a psychotic creep he is.

I don't know what Ann thinks he adds to the conversation, but if it's anything more than "trolls are fun" I worry about her judgement. :-)

Eeyore Rifkin said...

The more likeable your operating system, the more likely your government is spying on you. See XKeyscore. Perhaps you can find comfort in knowing that your government would prefer to mistrust you in secret.

AReasonableMan said...

The Crack Emcee said...
Unless you were black and wanted a Civil Rights bill - then government stepped in and did a fine job.


Hard to argue that government does nothing right.

AReasonableMan said...

The Godfather said...
Will’s List, on the other hand, is focused on things the federal Government shouldn’t be doing at all: designing elementary and secondary education, telling colleges how they must deal with misconduct claims, how much corn we should have in our gasoline, and what kind of light bulbs we can buy.


Common core is a response to a real problem, pathetic test scores in some states. I don't have a problem with the light bulbs or the fuel economy standards, both of which have stimulated technical innovation and reduced energy dependence. YMMV.

Drago said...

pst314: "I don't know what Ann thinks he adds to the conversation..."

He doesn't add anything.

But such is noblesse oblige when it comes to tolerating the ravings of the hapless "angry black man".

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "..or the fuel economy standards..."

As long as you're cool with the increase in deaths that resulted from the scaling down of vehicles to accommodate those standards.

Jupiter said...

"AReasonableMan said...
The Crack Emcee said...
Unless you were black and wanted a Civil Rights bill - then government stepped in and did a fine job.

Hard to argue that government does nothing right."

The perceived problem was that governments in southern states were improperly and illegally violating the rights of their black citizens. The solution, proposed and adopted, was for the federal government to improperly and illegally violate the rights of their white citizens. The baby was thrown out, the bathwater remains.

It is hard to argue that government ever does anything right.

Humperdink said...

ARM said:" I don't have a problem with the light bulbs .... which have stimulated technical innovation and reduced energy dependence.

Are you referring to the $10 LED bulbs or the compact fluorescent bulbs that require a hazmat team if they break?

Drago said...

Humperdink: "Are you referring to the $10 LED bulbs or the compact fluorescent bulbs that require a hazmat team if they break?"

Hey, if higher prices and decreased performance as well as mercury poisoning resulting in a few deaths is all that is required for the left to satisfy some of their control issues, isn't that a small price to pay?

Jupiter said...

"I don't know what Ann thinks he adds to the conversation, but if it's anything more than "trolls are fun" I worry about her judgement. :-)"

I don't think Althouse sees her role as deciding who will take part in this conversation, except insofar as that can be determined by the choice of subject matter.

And although I agree with almost nothing he says, neither do I agree that Crack should be silenced, or even that he is particularly obnoxious. Crack is the modern face of The Problem We All Live With.

buwaya puti said...

There are quite a few governments, if we are discussing the actual bureaucratic apparatus, that work much better than the US Federal Government. And are more honest.
Much of Europe (not all of it of course) has better functioning government bureaucracies than ours.
And quite a few Asian ones for that matter, where besides better efficiency it is much easier to do business.
Their policies may be worse, often, but their bureaucrats are better trained, have a better attitude to work, and have a better grasp of reality.
The Democrats own and run most US government bureaucracies (regardless of who is in power, this is the permanent government), with enormous powers and resources, and run them in a very shabby way compared to most first world governments.

Michael K said...

"Hard to argue that government does nothing right. "

Straw men appear in your world much ?

Civil Rights took a big hit when Wilson was elected in 1912 and resegregated the Civil Service which had been desegregated since the Civil War. Is that what you meant by doing right ?

The Federal Government can certainly do things right when they are appropriate but a national school curriculum is not one of them. Schools are bad because of several cultural changes in this country.

One- Teaching was a good a career option for many well educated young women when other areas were not available. The fact the women can be doctors instead of nurses has probably impacted nursing but teaching has been devastated. Ed schools draw from the bottom quintile of college students. Plus men are almost barred from elementary schools so the selection bias is even worse.
Two-Teachers' unions have dumbed down the role of the teacher until the NY system has "rubber rooms" for teachers they can't fire. LA Unified can't fire teachers who are child molesters.

National curriculum with all the idiotic ed school fads that we have seen for 50 years is not a solution. Remember "New Math ?" That was 50 years ago.

AReasonableMan said...

Humperdink said...
Are you referring to the $10 LED bulbs


And 10 year warranties. Not a bad deal.

madAsHell said...

I don't think Althouse sees her role as deciding who will take part in this conversation, except insofar as that can be determined by the choice of subject matter.

Perhaps, you missed the moderation statement.

AReasonableMan said...

buwaya puti said...
The Democrats own and run most US government bureaucracies (regardless of who is in power


Convenient belief, Republicans never need take responsibility for good governance, or bad.

buwaya puti said...

As for common core and etc.
Its very hard to argue that these curriculum standards are worthwhile. There are plenty of test cases like California that have had curriculum standards above and beyond common core for decades. And has never done better than sub-average in NAEP results. The only curriculum standards that have been shown to make a difference (for poor\minority elementary school students) are thing like DI. Which the bureaucracies hate and can only be snuck in when a district is lucky in its leadership.
The net effect of common core, like NCLB, will be zero. This stuff has been thoroughly tried out in many states and its useless.
For what its worth this sort of fooling around with public schools is at least not very expensive and even if its useless it can't do much harm either. The big problems of the bureaucracy have to do with the thousand burdens on business, large and small. This mass of stuff is paralyzing the economy.

buwaya puti said...

I know whereof I speak, thank you.
The government, its personnel and structures, are Democrat in political affiliation and culture.
Have you spent a career dealing with regulatory agencies? I have.

Jupiter said...

"Common core is a response to a real problem, pathetic test scores in some states."

Common Core is simply the latest inchoate, flailing lurch of the Educrat Establishment as it struggles feverishly to avoid recognizing the obvious differences in intellectual ability between races. Having determined, by a careful, painstaking process of wishing and hoping, that there are no such differences, they concluded that Education was racist because Education was being run by racists! So, they took over, and got rid of all those racists. But now that they are running Education, it persists in producing outcomes that are racist. How can that be?

Jupiter said...

"The big problems of the bureaucracy have to do with the thousand burdens on business, large and small."

I suppose that may be true, from an economic perspective. But I think the most destructive aspect of the bureaucracy is the ongoing erosion of individual rights, and the vast and unaccountable expansion of government power. We are continually beset with absurd regulations, promulgated by no one, appealable to no one, serving no purpose, impossible to evade.

Michael K said...

"The Democrats own and run most US government bureaucracies (regardless of who is in power

Convenient belief, Republicans never need take responsibility for good governance, or bad."

There is this thing called "Incentives" that tends to interest people in things they like. Republicans tend to like businesses. Most, not all, small businesses are run by Republicans. Doctors used to mostly be Republicans when they were small businessmen. Now they are mostly employees and I expect that will change.

People who like government tend to work for government and those tend to be Democrats, not all, but most.

When Republicans take over the Executive Branch they tend to appoint other Republicans but the permanent bureaucracy is still mostly Democrats because they like those careers. On the other hand, big corporations, as crony "capitalism" has grown, tend to support Democrats as good for business. General Electric has been a prominent example in the years since Jack Welch when they focused on making stuff.

Michael K said...

"absurd regulations, promulgated by no one, appealable to no one, serving no purpose, impossible to evade. "

They serve a purpose to the regulator, usually one that does not make economic sense but serves some purpose like global warming or "equality."

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

AReasonableMan said...
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
Windows 7 is a terrific Operating System,

Windows 8 is the current version.


You think I don't know that, clown? Your assumption that I didn't was, well, unreasonable.

I've been in IT since 1975. I mentioned Windows 7, and I could have also mentioned Windows XP, as they were both significant improvements on the previous best. Jury is still out on Win 8, imo. hence the no-mention.

So here are the truly outstanding MS OS's, in order. Win 95, Win XP, Win 7. All the ones in between were not so great.

But your idiotic statement that it has not improved since Win 95, is embarrassing.

Consider change your ef'ing handle. I would be a reasonable things to do, since you are a disgrace to it.

SukieTawdry said...

AReasonableMan said...

Lance said...
Where do you think Obamacare came from?

A desire to provide medical insurance for people with pre-existing conditions and the working poor.


Then why not deal with people having pre-existing conditions (as many states already had) and the working poor? Why disrupt everybody's coverage? Over 80 percent of the populous was satisfied with their health care insurance prior to Obamacare. Why did they have to get thrown into the mix?

(These are basically rhetorical questions. I know why.)

The Crack Emcee said...

Jupiter,

"The perceived problem was that governments in southern states were improperly and illegally violating the rights of their black citizens."

Oh yeah, blacks in the North had it so GOOOOD,...

AReasonableMan said...

Of course bureaucracies can become stifling and inefficient. You don't have to look past Microsoft to see this. But simply bleating 'Government is bad' is not a solution. There should be some pride in having an outstanding Federal government, as there is in some other countries, not a desire to simply kill it, because that is never going to happen.



Humperdink said...

ARM said: "And 10 year warranties. Not a bad deal."

You may not remember the Chevy Vega. One of GM's worst efforts in their history. They offered a warranty that was well beyond any other car maker.

Why you ask?

Because it the only way they could sell the piece of crap.

Not sure about you ARM, but the general public can not afford a $10 light bulb.

"Honey, let's take $20 out of the food budget and go buy two light bulbs. They have a 10 year warranty."

The Crack Emcee said...

”Why the GOP hates U.S. history: Inconvenient truths that freak out American conservatives

American’s right wing, you see, is terrified of history because it is always sentimentalizing it. Many of its arguments rely on a feeling of nostalgia for “good old days,” that appeals almost exclusively to aging whites. That means that a more accurate history, one that considers groups that are traditionally marginalized — women, people of color, Native Americans, immigrants and the poor — don’t necessarily sit that well. Their stories, the stories of the downtrodden, crush the false narrative that many conservatives like to imagine — that of a idyllic past marred by the New Deal, women’s liberation and civil rights.

Basically everything about slavery 
Example: Recently convicted felon and conservative columnist Dinesh D’Souza’s book, “The End of Racism,” provides some great examples of rewriting race. D’Souza says of slavery, “No free workers enjoyed a comparable social security system from birth until death.” Later, he writes, “Masters … encouraged the family unit which basically remained intact.” In a particularly appalling passage, he writes, “slavery appears such a relatively mild business that one begins to wonder why Frederick Douglass and so many other ever tried to escape.” And concludes, “In summary, the American slave was treated like property, which is to say, pretty well.”

The Problem: Conservatives in the U.S. have a race problem, specifically that many of them believe that blacks are “primarily responsible for their own success or failure” and that government programs only get in the way. And conservative politicians tend to racialize welfare programs to decrease support for them. To believe that black Americans would have been better off without government intervention, you have to pretend history doesn’t matter.”


And, in that situation, I add nothing to the conversation,...

Unknown said...

----The problem is that Republicans have come to genuinely believe that the government is the devil, an all powerful evil god, with predictably disastrous results. It is a sad and wasteful misuse of time and energy. ---

It is rare that someone reveals their underlying inadequacies and uncontrolled anger as “Reasonable” man has on this thread.

It starts with a weird diversion to some software issue or other and then reprises with this bile filled accusation.

This is a vivid encapsulation of the defense mechanism of projection and not a sign of a well integrated emotional state. Lets rerun some of Reasonable Man’s buddies’ disintegration of the boundaries between government/politics and religion:

"I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God." - See more at: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/06/05/newsweek-s-evan-thomas-obama-sort-god#sthash.9mCwjU6I.dpuf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtBy9LTH-g

"a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=18f_1219090374#PLBYy1dPivPeTRjj.99

During the Soul Train Awards in 2012, comedian and actor Jamie Foxx exhorted a wildly cheering crowd to "first of all (give) honor to god, and our lord and savior Barack Obama," exhibiting the all-too-widespread hero worship that casts rational thought aside and labels even legitimate criticism as virtual blasphemy.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/120913-682277-common-core-lesson-portrays-obama-as-messiah.htm#ixzz3FJrm0Dhy
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

A language-arts lesson plan for third-, fourth- and fifth-graders has been developed around the book "Barack Obama: Son of Promise, Child of Hope," in which the author, Nikki Grimes, paints the 44th president as nothing short of a messianic figure.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/120913-682277-common-core-lesson-portrays-obama-as-messiah.htm#ixzz3FJs17lAT
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

But in your poorly integrated world it is the Republicans who breakdown the borders between the polis and religion.

It takes a particularly irrationally defensive world view to scan the 20th century in which national Socialist Hitler killed millions; International Socialists Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Mugabe have killed millions ; Socialism in India killed millions through starvation and misery ; and in the face of all that to project hatred and religiosity against government on your fellow citizens.

There’s not much “Reason” there is there?

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash118164.html#8H1ReeFx5MEMSJyd.99

AReasonableMan said...

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
Windows 8 is the current version.

Jury is still out on Win 8, imo.


Not really, it is another failure.

I agree that XP was an improvement over 95 but since you bring up XP it should be noted that a large fraction of the population would prefer XP to most of MS's newer products. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of MS's innovation capabilities.

Microsoft has been one of the worst run companies from a software engineering perspective for at least the last decade and a half. It is Kodak.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Oh, Win 98 SE was pretty decent too.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

The Crack Emcee said...
”Why the GOP hates U.S. history: Inconvenient truths that freak out American conservatives
. . .
And, in that situation, I add nothing to the conversation,...


Here's some stuff for the history books, to contrast with White History.

The Africa homeland has given the world malaria, AIDS, and Ebola.

Here is America, Africans lead all ethnic groups in dead-beat dads, per capita prison population, school drop-out rates, unemployment, and general knuckle-headedness.

History!

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "Convenient belief, Republicans never need take responsibility for good governance, or bad."

LOL

Again, that any lefty anywhere could write that in this age of obama and "BlameBush" betrays a vast, vast lack of self-awareness.

Hey, did you ever figure out who set that "Red Line" in Syria, 'cuz the Light Bringer claims it sure wasn't him!

Drago said...

Unknown: "It is rare that someone reveals their underlying inadequacies and uncontrolled anger as “Reasonable” man has on this thread."

Just wait until AReasonableMeltdown melts down again.

It is a thing to behold.

buwaya puti said...

As for the US government, it is not just another bureaucracy.
All governments are better protected from their own incompetence than private entities. Even there though the US is a special case. The ability to print money is the ability to ignore consequences. Even this does not protect politicians perfectly but it does protect bureaucrats.
As to whether the Republicans can fix the regulatory morass, I doubt it. Passing laws does not fix the system. Changing out department heads doesn't either. Every regulation, practice, decision, and process has people who will fight for it because its their rice bowl. Getting into these trenches will be politically and financially costly. The incentives for business and right wing politicians is to live with it. There is no fixing this.
We have the disease and it is fatal. Argentina is the best case outcome. A revolution, or an out peculiar to the US, secession, is the worst case.

The Crack Emcee said...

SomeoneHasToSayIt,

"The Africa homeland has given the world malaria, AIDS, and Ebola."

None of which existed until whites went there,...

Unknown said...



Related:

CDC, You had ONE JOB!!


You had one job!" is the punchline on a popular Internet meme involving organizational screw-ups. Now critics are saying something similar about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in response the agency's handling of the Ebola outbreak. Unfortunately, it's not true. While we'd be better off if the CDC only had one job — you know, controlling disease— the CDC has taken on all sorts of jobs unrelated to that task.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/10/05/ebola-cdc-jobs-tasks-multitasking-thomas-duncan-column/16766801/

The Crack Emcee said...

The Indians died of disease, too:

From who?

ARE whites a disease?

The question is still open,...

Writ Small said...

Microsoft has been one of the worst run companies from a software engineering perspective for at least the last decade and a half. It is Kodak.

So what?

There are plenty of companies waiting in the wings to provide the advances in technology should Microsoft continue to falter. As long as the government resits the urge to prop up Microsoft, the company's failures will have little to no impact on anyone outside of its shareholders and employees. Consumers will switch to better offerings from competitors as they have in many of the markets Microsoft has failed to effectively compete.

There is no such alternative with the federal government. Our government is more like what would have happened if IBM had never been supplanted - or Brother typewriters.

RecChief said...

"A common theme is the excessive faith in the skills of government."

Absolutely the GOP is guilty of it also. And don't let them fool you, they try it in domestic policy as well.

RecChief said...

" David said...
Hey, for mistrust, nothing can beat having to be a Lions or Bears fan.

Buffalo 17, Detroit 14 (at Detroit)
Carolina 31, Chicago 24 (at Carolina)

Chicago had the lead 21-7, and Detroit 14-0.

It's still a long season, but today is a good day to be a Packer fan."



BUt the good news is, Hockey starts on WEdnesday

google is evil said...

>>>And they haven't significantly improved their operating system since Windows 98

The OS has been completely rewritten, most notably under the hood at the core level. Any one remember WindowNT. So the comment is completely false, and appears to be ignorant.

RecChief said...

returned from a lively Sunday evening dinner hosted by some mild liberals that I know. we had a very long discussion tonight, and while we disagree on many issues, their points were delivered passionately, but you could tell they had wrestled with their positions.

then I come here and see all the posts by ARM and Crack.

ugh. good night

Michael K said...

"Microsoft has been one of the worst run companies from a software engineering perspective for at least the last decade and a half. It is Kodak."

ARM, I am not disagreeing with you because it is important. The point is that NO ONE makes us use Microsoft products !

I've used Macs for 20 years.

The problem is that government is mandatory !

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

George Washington

That is what we are saying ! I have served in local government and seen how a little power will corrupt someone's behavior. I can only imagine what it is like for a Lois Lerner, who is contemptuous of us peasants.

Napoleon said "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." I don't think Obama was born in Kenya. I just think he has never learned what is needed to govern.

Look, you understand evolution. Why can't you understand that some of us are unwilling to be controlled by dummies ? I don't even care if they are Democrats or Republicans ! Both parties have bought into the elites thing. It's just that Republicans are less invested and some of them know something about running organizations that have to work right.

John Stodder said...

But simply bleating 'Government is bad' is not a solution. There should be some pride in having an outstanding Federal government, as there is in some other countries, not a desire to simply kill it, because that is never going to happen.

You know what I've noticed lately about "progressives?" To engage in argument, they must first develop a strawman they are comfortable arguing with, whether or not that strawman has anything to do with what their opponents think. People like ARM consider the real arguments against their position to be unfair to them, so they change them into something a third-grader could argue against. And they do about as well as a third-grader, on their good days.

This is as good an example as any. I don't know anyone in the center center-right who "bleats government is bad." Clearly that is not the position of independents or Republicans opposed to the Obama regime. Their actual position is that government is doing a lot, and is expected to do a lot, but it can't do everything, and it certainly should be more focused than it is on using power competently and wisely, and less focused on acquiring more and more power. The problem I had with, for instance, Obamacare, wasn't that I preferred poor people to fend for themselves without insurance. It was that I didn't think the government was competent enough to handle the immense added responsibility. And of course, I was absolutely right, and with the passage of more time, my correctness on this issue will be seen even more clearly. But the way it will be felt for most Americans will be the erosion of government's ability to do its other jobs, given the massive resources that will be needed to make this "historic achievement" from falling apart. The diversion of attention to the new and shiny thing will harm Medicare, the VA, and all other domestic and health programs that, actually, most conservatives are okay with.

I realize, this argument confuses ARM and the other third-graders who would prefer I give them what they think I think, more "bleating." If I were you, I would just do what the mainstream media does and move on. Ignoring these arguments is the safest course. Trying to take them on, you will just look bad -- and that's the worst sin for a progressive, to embarrass their leaders.

chickelit said...

The Crack Em'X said:

None of which existed until whites went there,...

Yes we farraKHAN!

AReasonableMan said...

Writ Small said...
There is no such alternative with the federal government.


You complain like a small child. The world is not how I want it to be.

Modern civilization is inseparable from a large central government. Want the benefits of a modern society, then suck it up and accept that it requires a large central government.


AReasonableMan said...

The fantasy that the left loves an omnipotent central government bears no relationship with reality. The pushback against the surveillance state has come almost completely from the left. Much of the right loves surveillance, can't get enough.

chickelit said...

ARM must be a tenured academic. It's too obvious.

AReasonableMan said...

John Stodder said...
Obamacare, wasn't that I preferred poor people to fend for themselves without insurance. It was that I didn't think the government was competent enough to handle the immense added responsibility. And of course, I was absolutely right,


This is a little delusional. In the real world Obamacare is working reasonably well.

Unknown said...

---Want the benefits of a modern society, then suck it up and accept that it requires a large central government. ---


And yet we have privatized space exploration. The internet grew in power with nearly zero governmental involvement - except for all the corrupt attempts to make it free for urban areas. Many Europeans have privatized air traffic control systems. Silicon valley was government free, as was Microsoft until governments started coveting all that money.

There are massive numbers of examples of modern society organizing itself without government, not to speak of government mucking up that organization.

If government were right-sized perhaps it would’t f’up so often. Perhaps the CDC shouldn’t be spending time on playground safety, smoking in public housing, and attempting to control guns. Then they could efficiently respond to pandemic diseases - which is their MISSION.

But one thing Big Government does very well, it provide a Big Mommy figure for inadequate personalities like 'a reasonable man' to cling to and disparage his fellow citizens. Aspiring prison camp director A Reasonable Man.

Unknown said...

---The pushback against the surveillance state has come almost completely from the left.---

So Rand Paul is a lefty now?

Rand Paul, a favorite of the fiscally conservative Tea Party, told a largely welcoming, younger crowd of several hundred at the University of California, Berkeley, that U.S. government surveillance programs threatened their rights.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/20/us-usa-politics-paul-idUSBREA2J0LA20140320

Congressman Sensenbrenner? He’s a lefty?

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, the Republican author of the Patriot Act, sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder that says he is “extremely disturbed” by reports that the National Security Agency collected phone records from Verizon customers and insists it violates the law.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/jim-sensenbrenner-nsa-violated-law-92348.html

Shorter ARM - We lefties are the good guys and we love Big Mommy government.

AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...

And yet we have privatized space exploration.


- Not really

The internet grew in power with nearly zero governmental involvement

- if we ignore the fact that it was invented in a government lab and most of the original backbones connected universities and government labs

Silicon valley was government free

- silicon valley grew out of the government funded labs at Stanford

Patrick said...

ARM uses his best ad hominem,gives nothing else. Never occurs to him that the "inseparability of modern society from the strong central government" just might be the problem. Of course his predictible response is that those who question the power of the State are a bunch of anarchists. No middle ground here, love the State, or you're part of the problem.

AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...
So Rand Paul is a lefty now?


He was late to the party and had a tiny fraction of the impact of someone like Glenn Greenwald.

AReasonableMan said...

Patrick said...
Of course his predictible response is that those who question the power of the State are a bunch of anarchists. No middle ground here, love the State, or you're part of the problem.


But I don't love government, federal, state or local. Big government has been in the pocket of big business all of my life a state of affairs the right seems to be finally understand is less than ideal.

Unknown said...

Reasonable Neurotic says…..My Big Mommy government did so create the internet


The government did create Arpanet, the world's first decentralized computer network. It was supposed to help the Department of Defense communicate after a nuclear attack. Even then, government scientists relied heavily on inventions by private companies.

Arpanet introduced TCP/IP, the protocol that the internet uses to transfer information. That was useful, but for decades, the government possessed the technology it needed to create the Internet, and did very little with it.

In 1969, Arpanet linked 4 computers. Over the next three years, Email and instant messaging were invented, but they weren't useful to you, because the government's Arpanet linked only 37 computers.

H E R E ' S T H E M O N E Y Q U O T E

Only as the program was privatized did the private sector make the investments, in money and creativity, that gave us the internet we have now.

Why didn't the private sector develop an Arpanet?

According to Andrew Morriss of The Freeman, two reasons: First, government crowded out the private sector by hiring many talented computer scientists. Second, laws required the FCC to authorize new networks, and "Regulatory barriers to entry, not a lack of entrepreneurial activity, slowed the efforts to build private networks."

In 1995, government fully privatized their network. That's when the current internet started to flourish. Morriss says, "the real Internet grew out of a spontaneous ordering process of the interactions of millions of individual users.... The explosive growth in commerce, for example, became possible only when the government's ban on commercial use of the networks it financed was lifted.”

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/07/24/did-government-invent-internet


Private spaceflight making big strides

Entrepreneurs have begun designing and deploying competitive space systems to the national-monopoly governmental systems[1] of the early decades of the space age.[2] Successes to date include flying suborbital spaceplanes, launching orbital rockets, and flying a couple of orbital expandable test modules (Genesis I and II). Planned private spaceflights beyond Earth orbit include personal spaceflights around the Moon.[citation needed] Two private orbital habitat prototypes are already in Earth orbit, with larger versions to follow.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_spaceflight

In May, SpaceX unveiled the design of its Dragon Version 2, the manned version of the cargo ship that it uses to send supplies to the International Space Station.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/nasa/3-things-to-know-about-nasas-new-private-space-contracts-17215622click=pm_news


Less than a week after NASA announced that SpaceX will become one of two private companies to fly astronauts to the International Space Station, the company broke ground on a brand new spaceport of its own on Monday.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/how-to/blog/what-spacexs-new-spaceport-will-look-like-17238112?click=pm_latest

Revenant said...

"Losing" emails? Pfft.

chickelit said...

silicon valley grew out of the government funded labs at Stanford

Oh bullshit. Silicon Valley is there because of Bill Shockley's mother and Arnold Beckman's money. Ironically, Shockley did end up at Stanford but only after he lost control of his initial vision. And transistors came from Bell.

If you want a better example of a Government success story, I can suggest a couple: Hoover Dam, and magnetic resonance which eventually led to MRI. But even then, industry was essential; for example, Varian Associates in Palo Alto.

Unknown said...

-----
So Rand Paul is a lefty now?

He was late to the party and had a tiny fraction of the impact of someone like Glenn Greenwald.----

An English journalist. All well and good to inform the public but political force came from Paul and Sensenbrenner has introduced legislation.

(Want the benefits of a modern society, then suck it up and accept that it requires a large central SPYING government.

We can’t have any secrets from mummy now can we…)

Jupiter said...

AReasonableMan said...
John Stodder said...
"This is a little delusional. In the real world Obamacare is working reasonably well."

Well, at least now we know what what AReasonableMan means by "reasonable".



Paul said...

'The Indians died of disease, too:'

Crack, the Indians died of disease long before white man came. Small Pox was just a new one.

"Every time a black comes along to help, like MLK, whites shoot him in the face "

Who shot Condi Rice in the face? Who shot SCOTUS Judge Thomas in the face? Who shot Collin Powell in the face?

Oh, right, those three don't sound 'black' enough for you, right crack?

"Unless you were black and wanted to go to a white school - then government stepped in and did a fine job."

crack, that 'government' at the time they stepped in were MOSTLY WHITE. In fact an awful lot of those whites DIED IN THE CIVIL WAR FOR YOU BLACKS.

"Saudi Arabia beheaded 19 and you still consider them our friends."

crack, why did Saudi Arabia behead the 19 people? Crimes? Oh wait, in the US we executed how many people by injecting them with poison?

The ones beheaded by ISIS didn't do any crimes and were MURDERED. That's the difference crack.

”Why the GOP hates U.S. history: Inconvenient truths that freak out American conservative"..

Crack, Abraham Lincoln's party, the REPUBLICANS, is the one who fought to free you. the DIXIE DEMOCRATS are the ones that want to USE YOU.

Now crack, as I've been trying to tell you, GET A JOB, GET A FAMILY, and get off drugs. Stop crying about your imagined racism and start building a life. Your rants are all about poor-old-me and not about how to make it in a tough world.

Now stop the sobbing and start the doing.

AReasonableMan said...

From wiki

Stanford University, its affiliates, and graduates have played a major role in the development of this area. Some examples include the work of Lee De Forest with his invention of a pioneering vacuum tube called the Audion and the oscilloscopes of Hewlett-Packard.

A very powerful sense of regional solidarity accompanied the rise of Silicon Valley. From the 1890s, Stanford University's leaders saw its mission as service to the West and shaped the school accordingly. At the same time, the perceived exploitation of the West at the hands of eastern interests fueled booster-like attempts to build self-sufficient indigenous local industry. Thus, regionalism helped align Stanford's interests with those of the area's high-tech firms for the first fifty years of Silicon Valley's development.

During the 1940s and 1950s, Frederick Terman, as Stanford's dean of engineering and provost, encouraged faculty and graduates to start their own companies. He is credited with nurturing Hewlett-Packard, Varian Associates, and other high-tech firms, until what would become Silicon Valley grew up around the Stanford campus. Terman is often called "the father of Silicon Valley".



AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...
but political force came from Paul and Sensenbrenner has introduced legislation


and have achieved exactly nothing.


Fen said...

Where do you think Obamacare came from?

AReasonableMan: A desire to provide medical insurance for people with pre-existing conditions and the working poor.

Dumbass. Obamacare came from a desire to make more voters dependent on government spending.

"Please don't let the EBT database crash!" cried the plantation slaves.

AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...
Arpanet introduced TCP/IP, the protocol that the internet uses to transfer information. That was useful,


That's mighty big of you to concede that the entire principal of the thing was created in a government lab.

But yes the cat videos are a private innovation.

chickelit said...

HP is recognized as the symbolic founder of Silicon Valley, although it did not actively investigate semiconductor devices until a few years after the "traitorous eight" had abandoned William Shockley to create Fairchild Semiconductor in 1957. Hewlett-Packard's HP Associates division, established around 1960, developed semiconductor devices primarily for internal use. Instruments and calculators were some of the products using these devices.

Only one of the "traitorous eight" was a Stanford man. Without Fairchild and TI and Bell, HP would still be making pilot light resistors in garages. And it would be called Silicon Valley but maybe Germanium Valley or Tungsten Valley.

furious_a said...

None of which existed until whites went there,...

White people.brought Malaria to prehistoric Africa? To some bat cave deep in in the Congolese jungle?

Fascinating.

chickelit said...

It's awfully nice of you to shill for Stanford, ARM, but all in all, I'd say that Caltech had the biggest influence.

buwaya said...

The US government, as an institution and a culture (it has much more than enough people in it to form its own insular culture, along with its private associations, contractors, academic feedlots, etc.) as a body, is stupid, incompetent, poisonous to the greater society, and unreformable. It will only get worse, and democratic politics does not have the power to fix it.
That is the blunt and complete truth. There really isnt anything else to say.

chickelit said...

It must be an age thing -- people seem convinced that Silicon Valley is all software, the Internet, and Google. Have some perspective, people.

Rseven Rocket said...

Government itself isn't evil. Government ruled by evil and insane elites is evil.

Note the evil insanity of allowing flights from ebola stricken countries into the US.

Zeb Quinn said...

"The Republicans brought us nation-building and regime change. A common theme is the excessive faith in the skills of government."

Yeah but there is a track record of some successes on that side of the ledger: Japan and Germany

AReasonableMan said...

Zeb Quinn said...
Yeah but there is a track record of some successes on that side of the ledger: Japan and Germany


Pretty sure the Germans and Japanese had already built those nations.

Big Mike said...

Pretty sure the Germans and Japanese had already built those nations.

You wouldn't have wanted to live in either of those nations prior to World War II.

Or perhaps, being the good little emperor-worshiping national socialist that you are, you'd have loved it.

chillblaine said...

"I don't have a problem with the light bulbs or the fuel economy standards, both of which have stimulated technical innovation..."

Broken Windows Fallacy.

Michael K said...

"This is a little delusional. In the real world Obamacare is working reasonably well."

Speaking of delusions.

I have to work tomorrow so I can't deal with ARM's straw men any longer. Thank God, I no longer have to deal with Obamacare and its excresences.

The only thing that is "working" about Obamacare is the signing up of more people for Medicaid. They will not be happy with it.

n.n said...

Michael K:

Obamcare, like Medicaid, offers all of the liability with only rationed medical care, and still not everyone is covered. Just like the multi-trillion welfare system, and there are still indigent, homeless, and unidentified Americans. Someone is lying.

The trillion dollar federal deficits which devalue both capital and labor. The federal scheme to push nondischargeable student loans. These people are truly greedy bastards.

Neither affordable nor available, but progressive inflation (and private capital capture) from a diverse audience.

So, this is how a Republic ends, and the national socialist reich begins. I don't think I'm exaggerating this. The ruling minority is steeped in a degenerate religion which denies both individual dignity and intrinsic value of the "folks".

furious_a said...

That's mighty big of you to concede that the entire principal of the thing was created in a government lab.

Almost fifty years ago. Which has sh*t to do with this Administration's demolition of trust in government now.

In fact, President Tee Time is going to surrender American control of top-level-domains to some as-yet-named international body (think "Iran and Libya on the UN Rights Commission).

Heckuva job, Barry Hussein!

Hyphenated American said...

"All large organizations have problems"

And the way for society to solve these problems is to allow competition. Which is why Apple rose in the last few years and won a huge market from Microsoft.

But what happens when the government has problems? Easy, it takes more money taxpayers money.

This is a pretty simple and obvious, but libs don't get it.

Bruce Hayden said...

Late to the party - but Win 98 was single thread. It was built to run on top of Dos, and indeed some of the antitrust suits asserted that MSFT had code in Win 95/98 that detected DR-Dos and put out a nasty message as a result (they ran on top of either MS or DR Dos just fine) (and, yes, the code was there). NT 4 was the better way to go. Same user interface as 95/98, but the same multi-threading, multi-programming, and now multi-processing core as in 2k, XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1. NT 3 had an interface more akin maybe to OS-2. NT 4 was a breakthrough for MSFT, its first somewhat modern OS. One big advantage was that you could kill programs and the OS wouldn't crash. Stable as a rock - my home system ran w/o rebooting for over two years.

Win 2K was never as robust. XP was better, with a lot of the important functionality that is still in use today. Pretty stable, esp in comparison to Vista, which is why MSFT had such a hard time getting corporations off of it (individuals were force off earlier - but I am still running an IBM reconditioned Dell XP box that I picked up maybe 3 1/2 years ago for under $200). Vista sucks big time (still have and using two Vista laptops). Skipped 7, and am gradually replacing the XP box with an IA64 8.1 desktop.

I have very happily run Office 2003 for much of the last decade. Have open licenses for 1998 and 2k, but prefer 2003. The big thing I like is the programmability with VBA. By 2003, the object model was robust. 1998 was pretty crude, and 2k was still rocky. Don't see anything I need in anything later, so not finding a cheap 2010 or so Office, I installed 2003 on the 8.1 box.

Never liked Macs. Used them three different times. Middle time though, Jobs came back and cost my employer a couple hundred million when he killed clones. Asshole. At least Windows was written by (mediocre) programmers, instead of interior designers. A lot of the differences between Macs and PCs are more esthetic over functional. I will go with functional any day. One butten mice? Brain dead. 3+scroll is good and 4 is even better. And that stupid program scrolling on the bottom of the screen is even worse than the new Win 7/8 launch page. Biggest complaint is that Jobs was God, and he took a lot of the customization out of your hands that Windows still allows. Still, I have 3 iOS devices though, and will probably get another this year. Keep swearing that I will migrate elsewhere, but haven't, and instead just got another iPhone.

n.n said...

Hyphenated American:

$8 trillion dollars and all we got was Obamacare. A multi-trillion dollar welfare economy and there are still indigent, homeless, and unidentified Americans. This is after they abort around 2 million Americans annually. People's distrust of the ruling minority (i.e. government) is well justified.

Ed said...

Mr. Crack Emcee:

Clearly you have been educated in a government run school. Here's some inconvenient history for you.

Martin Luther King was a Republican.

The Republican party was founded for a single purpose: to end slavery. The first Republican president was Abraham Lincoln. He freed the slaves. The 13th amendment was a Republican initiative.

The KKK was founded by Democrats.

The southern states that violated the rights of blacks in the civil rights era were run by Democrat governors. Bull Connor was a member of the Democrat National Committee.

The Republicans believe that black people can succeed by education, perseverance, delayed gratification, and hard work, a tried and true formula for success in middle class America. Democrats believe that blacks aren't as good as whites, hence Affirmative Action.

In short, your ideas about racism are exactly backwards.

Bruce Hayden said...

The government did create Arpanet, the world's first decentralized computer network. It was supposed to help the Department of Defense communicate after a nuclear attack. Even then, government scientists relied heavily on inventions by private companies.

Arpanet introduced TCP/IP, the protocol that the internet uses to transfer information. That was useful, but for decades, the government possessed the technology it needed to create the Internet, and did very little with it.

In 1969, Arpanet linked 4 computers. Over the next three years, Email and instant messaging were invented, but they weren't useful to you, because the government's Arpanet linked only 37 computers.


I was working as a consultant for the USDA during the latter 1980s, and we tried to use TCP/IP for the department wide network linking the then astronomical number of maybe 5,000 heterogeneous computers together in a robust network. We had done so with our own FTP style protocol/application, and this was the next phase. And failed because we didn't have DNS. Interesting thing was that at that time, the entire federal govt. was supposed to be transitioning to an OSI network. This in particular included DoD, including those ARPANet TCP/IP sites. OSI was mandated in all large US govt. contracts for several years there. Unfortunately, OSI was designed by committee(s), and showed it. It was supposed to interconnect every type of device, but the complexity caused it to topple over of its own weight. Never really could interconnect heterogeneous systems together. It is a fairly rigid 7 layer set of protocols. TCP and IP cover some of the middle layers with HTTP, FTP the top layers. The big difference though was that TCP and IP (etc) were designed by small, very bright, teams. OSI by multinational committees, with many members being academics.

Bruce Hayden said...

Getting back to ARM's straw men. I think that the conservative/libertarian point of view is not that government is bad per se, but that it is an inefficient, wasteful, and corrupt way to do things. It is a necessary evil. We pay $50-$80 million for fighter jets, billions for aircraft carriers, etc, because we have little, if any choice. It is a dangerous world out there, and a national military is necessary to protect us from such. There are other functions that pretty much have to be national, such as maintenance of federal lands, international relations, etc.

The place where I believe the left goes off into the weeds is in using the federal govt. as their preferred solution for things that the govt. probably shouldn't be doing. I think many ignore that the internal structure of govt. is inefficient and scales badly, that people are selfish and often tend to put themselves, their families, etc before their constituents, that the best and brightest rarely work for the govt., and the market almost inevitably allocates resources far better than any bureaucracy can, even assuming it wasn't corrupt and inefficient, which it inevitably is.

I found it interesting that ARM defended ACA/ObamaCare by what it was supposed to do, and the noble intentions behind it, and ignored that it is, already, a miserable failure. Costs are up, and millions lost coverage, their doctors, and/or their hospitals. Meanwhile many millions are working multiple part time jobs, instead of having full time employment, precisely because of the requirement to cover full time, but not part time employees. And that is not unusual - the left inevitably asks to be evaluated and viewed by their good intentions, and never by how badly the programs are implemented or perform, regardless how foreseeable that was. And that, I think is probably the difference between the right here and the left. The left looks only at intentions, and ignores results, while the right looks at the reality and the results.

John Stodder said...

" In the real world Obamacare is working reasonably well."

It's inherently unstable. You shouldn't have even scheduled your victory lap for five years, probably five years after the employee mandate is finally allowed to take effect.

Declaring it "working" at this point would be like a baseball team doing a victory lap around the stadium, high-fiving the crowd, because they held the opponent to only five runs in the first inning. Play the rest of the game, then we'll see.

averagejoe said...

"The pushback against the surveillance state has come almost completely from the left."

Yeah right- Remember all the democrat party members upset because Joe the Plumber's tax records and personal financial information was released publicly- yeah, me neither... How about the outrage shown by the democrat party members when the Internal Revenue Service targeted political opponents and when democrat party politicians stonewalled investigations and when the IRS claimed that the e-mails they are legally obliged to retain were destroyed, along with the hard drives of everyone in the agency who had been subpoenaed- Yeah me neither... Remember the outrage of democrat party members when the Inspector General overseeing the Fast and Furious scandal was dismissed on bogus charges of incompetence- Yeah, me neither... Remember the outrage of democrat party members when the Obama administration had oversight of the Census Bureau moved from the Commerce department to the White House- Yeah, me neither... Dirtbag democrat party members are just delighted with fascist oppression and the surveillance state, as long as it's used against their political opponents.

Humperdink said...

ARM said: "This is a little delusional. In the real world Obamacare is working reasonably well."

I posted up-thread how Obamacare personally screwed me. I live in the real world. I am not alone. My cousin had her insurance cancelled also. She has cancer. You failed to respond to my comment, even though it was directed to you. Instead it's platitudes.

You need to face facts ARM, Obamacare has been a rolling disaster which will only get worse over time. You can see the future of Obamacare today. It's called the VA.

Robert Cook said...

"Martin Luther King was a Republican."

Uh, no...he wasn't.

"The KKK was founded by Democrats."

I don't know how you know that, or even exactly what you mean. Do you mean the Democratic Party was complicit in the founding of the KKK, or do you mean the men who founded the KKK happened to be Democrats?

"The southern states that violated the rights of blacks in the civil rights era were run by Democrat governors. Bull Connor was a member of the Democrat National Committee."

The southern states--where racism was most visible and cruel, (though not the only region in the USA to be ridden with racism)--was primarily democratic for decades. This was because the Republican party was the party of Lincoln, who was excoriated in the south. However, after the Civil Rights Act was passed, many southern democrats fled to the Republican party, due to Democratic president LBJ's instrumental role in its passage. Many in the Republican Party today would have been Democrats 60 or more years ago.

Talking as if the Democratic Party of today is the same party that reigned in the south for so long, or that the Republican party of today is the same party as during Lincoln's time is foolish.

Of course, none of this is to paint the Democrats as saintly. Presently, both parties are the servants of Wall Street, and neither serves the interest of the people. To look to either party today for a change in the disastrous course America has taken over the last few decades is hopeless.

Dad29 said...

MSFT does not force one to use its products, nor does it take your money at gunpoint.

Fen said...

However, after the Civil Rights Act was passed, many southern democrats fled to the Republican party, due to Democratic president LBJ's instrumental role in its passage. Many in the Republican Party today would have been Democrats 60 or more years ago

Yah I've read that bullshit and its still bullshit.

Those dems didn't "flee to the GOP", they continued to pull the lever for Dems at the local, state and federal level for decades.

Bruce Hayden said...

Can't believe that Cook is trying to divert the failure of got into the trope that Republicans are racists.

Sorry Cook, not a credible source. Dem party has been the racist party for 200 or so years. And, the Rep party has been the religious party from its creation in the 1850s. During the Civil War, the Reps joined the Union Army and sang Battle Hymn of the Republic, while the Dems engaged in draft riots, or fought for the south, singing Dixie. Even today, Obama is one of the very few minority Dems who has ever been elected in a district that isn't majority minority and that may because he is only half Black, and that half wasn't descended from slaves. Just look at the leadership and rising stars in both parties today. In the Dem party,it is entirely white, with the exception of the Obamas. The rainbow is on the Rep side.

As to the founding of the KKK - it was founded in direct response to the Civil War Amendments and Reconstruction. Reconstruction was a Republican plan, that was ultimately terminated in trade for the Presidency after a disputed election. Back then, it was intensely political - the Dems in the south had fought for the Confederacy, and a minority formed the core of the Klan. Jim Crow was always a Dem policy, and some of its most powerful advocates were DNC members. The Reps were the carpet baggers.

Keep trying though.

AReasonableMan said...

Humperdink said...
I posted up-thread how Obamacare personally screwed me. I live in the real world. I am not alone. My cousin had her insurance cancelled also.


People have insurance policies cancelled all the time the question is whether there was a better policy available. In the case of your cousin with cancer, I would guess almost certainly since she might well have not been covered for her condition or poorly covered previously.

AReasonableMan said...

Bruce Hayden said...
The rainbow is on the Rep side.


Not a single Jewish Repub member of congress.

AReasonableMan said...

I find it interesting that no one offered an example of another national government markedly better than our current Federal government. Puts the complaints into perspective.

DanTheMan said...

Name that party:
George Wallace
Orval Faubus
Lester Maddox
Bull Conner
Richard Russell

Racists, all.

CWJ said...

ARM @ 8:27,

Well, if without evidence, you presume and "guess" that the pre Obamacare policy is inferior, the Obamacare policy will always be superior. Good job. Tight reasoning. Hip Hip. Well done.

Look, I can only speak for the situation in Kansas City, but my pre Obamacare policy was clearly superior and cheaper to anything I shopped on the portal.

Naut Right said...

ARM - "There should be some pride in having an outstanding Federal government, as there is in some other countries, not a desire to simply kill it, because that is never going to happen."

A Leopard usually won't hold still to have his spots changed for him. So, you have to skin that cat. And there's only one way to do that. Kill it first.

Robert Cook said...

"Yah I've read that bullshit and its still bullshit."

Calling something "bullshit" is bullshit, and doesn't make the referenced "something" bullshit.

In this case, that "something" is true.

Robert Cook said...

"Name that party:
George Wallace
Orval Faubus
Lester Maddox
Bull Conner
Richard Russell

"Racists, all."


Yup. And if they were coming up today, they'd be Republicans.

Robert Cook said...

"And, the Rep party has been the religious party from its creation in the 1850s."

Talk about damning your (presumed) own party! Who wants a "religious" party? When you have a "religious" party in power, you have Taliban time!

Robert Cook said...

Bruce,

The rest of your post in no way contradicts my own comments.

Humperdink said...

Humperdink said...
I posted up-thread how Obamacare personally screwed me. I live in the real world. I am not alone. My cousin had her insurance cancelled also.

ARM responded: "People have insurance policies cancelled all the time the question is whether there was a better policy available. In the case of your cousin with cancer, I would guess almost certainly since she might well have not been covered for her condition or poorly covered previously."

ARM, you are flat out not credible. You have no clue what you are talking about. In both of the above instances, your response(s) is factually incorrect.

Fernandinande said...

Humperdink said...
I was notified last week by my health insurer that my policy, because it does not comply with Idiotcare regs, will be cancelled December 31, 2014.


++
Understanding Obamacare

Here is the 2500-page Affordable Care Act condensed to only 4 sentences...This probably says it as clearly as possible while still being able to be understood (Author unknown)

1) In order to insure the uninsured, we first have to un-insure the insured.

2) Next, we require the newly uninsured to be re-insured

3) To re-insure the newly uninsured, they are required to pay extra charges to be re-insured.

4) The extra charges are required so that the original insured, who became uninsured, and then became re-insured, can pay enough extra so that the original uninsured can be insured, free of charge to them.
++

AReasonableMan said...

Humperdink said...
ARM, you are flat out not credible


Credibility is difficult to decide in this case without looking at the actual paperwork but the GOP rolled out multiple cases earlier where they claimed that people were worse off under Obamacare. Almost none of these cases stood up under scrutiny. Statistically it is likely that most people affected by the ACA are better off under the ACA. If this wasn't the case the GOP would have done a better job finding counter examples.

Jupiter said...

"It will only get worse, and democratic politics does not have the power to fix it.
That is the blunt and complete truth. There really isnt anything else to say."

Except to make explicit the inference, that it will not be fixed while the country remains a democracy.

The Dude Abides said...

I am a diehard Linux user, but anyone who thinks that there is any freeware wordprocessor that does anything remotely near what Word can do is obviously doing only trivial word processing. Try doing a table of authorities in OpenOffice and then get back to us.

AReasonableMan said...

The Dude Abides said...
I am a diehard Linux user


What about LaTex?

Humperdink said...

ARM said: "Credibility is difficult to decide in this case without looking at the actual paperwork..."

Then why do you make claims that have no factual basis?

ARM said: "Statistically it is likely that most people affected by the ACA are better off under the ACA."

I am a real person, not a statistic. I am scheduled for knee surgery in Feb 2014 if the Synvisc does not work. Will my "new and improved" (cough)policy accept my surgeon? You have no answers because you have no facts, only guesses. But you sure as heck talk like an expert.

AReasonableMan said...

Humperdink, I am not saying every single person affected by the program is better off, this is also statistically unlikely. But, to argue at this point that the ACA did not increase the greater good is just tilting at windmills. Multiple Republican governors have caved in on this program, under pressure from their constituents, and people in states where this didn't happen are now notably worse off in terms of coverage.

Humperdink said...

Tilting at windmills???

It is an absolute waste of time to debate liberals.

I present facts, but according to you, they are outliers. My situation is a statistical anomaly. And apparently so are the working stiffs whose hours were reduced to below 30 hours/week.

“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "Statistically it is likely that most people affected by the ACA are better off under the ACA."

LOL

Go ahead.

Show your "statistical" work.

LOL

Drago said...

We know that folks are "statistically" better off with obamacare because none of the dems are running on it and obambi keeps delaying the full implementation.

That's how we know.

You know, 'cuz it's all great and "WE CAN'T WAIT"....except for all the waiting that obambi keeps opting for.

All you have to do is look at and listen to the dems and you know all you need to know about the "statistical" success of obambicare.

Funniest part of all this? ARMeltdown probably doesn't even understand the basics of applied stats.

LOL

Drago said...

And I see that our resident 9-11 & October Surprise Truther Robert Cook makes another appearance with his (and the left in general) "Southern Strategy" nonsense wherein it is claimed all those southern democrat racist crackers became republicans!!

LOL

Quick test question: Identify the years in which Republicans won control of Southern State Houses and Senate chambers.

Go ahead.

The "southern strategy" supposedly started in 1968, so go ahead, tell us how long it took for the republicans to seize control of those states.

If Cookies and the other marxist theories are correct, it should have been right away. After all, those southern racists jumped on the republican bandwagon, right?

Except they didn't.

And they didn't for another 40 years!

LOL

It took all those racists 40 years to die along with massive migration from the North, Midwest and West back into the south to further dilute the democrat racist support in order for the republicans to win in the south.

The republicans didn't win in Texas (which has had large scale population shifts over the last 50 years) until 2002!

And in the deep south it took even longer.

Now Cookie can return to his "HWBush flew to Paris in an SR-71 before Reagan was elected in order to convince the Khomeini's boys to hold Americans hostage longer!!1!11!eleventy" musings.

Rusty said...

But, to argue at this point that the ACA did not increase the greater good is just tilting at windmills.

And yet young people steadfastly refuse to sign up. Thereby making the undertaking an extremely expensive proposition for the taxpayer.
Something we were assured would never happen. Something which I predicted would happen.

Soon even more people will be forced out of their existing insurance programs. Programs that they are now happy with.
Something which we were assured would never happen.

buwaya said...

When you have a religious party in power you may also have Konrad Adenauer.

Christian Democrats

Or you may have Eamon de Valera

Sinn Fein

There have been and are many religious parties. To call them Taliban is itself fanatical.

Unknown said...

yassuh massa Crack

damikesc said...

Again, Progressives want to expand the list of what government should do without increasing the COMPETENCY of the government.

This constant drumbeat of government is bad, government is bad, ad infinitum gets old after a while.

It's also still rather damned accurate.

Hell, the government can lose your data and NOT TELL YOU THAT IT HAPPENED.

How fucked up is THAT?

The Crack Emcee said...

Paul,

"Who shot Condi Rice in the face? Who shot SCOTUS Judge Thomas in the face? Who shot Collin Powell in the face?"

Of course, you present three names few blacks today would consider "help" as your examples.

Unless you mean "help" for whites in their opposition.

Man, white supremacists are transparent,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Robert Cook,

"Martin Luther King was a Republican.

Uh, no...he wasn't."

Republican delusions are the best ones.

I mean, the way they will liiiiiiie,....

The Crack Emcee said...

Robert Cook,

"If they were coming up today, they'd be Republicans."

And the best part is, these racists don't think anybody can understand that.

Lying schemers, every one of them,...

The Crack Emcee said...

The Mistrust List:

Republican racists.

It's pretty short,....

damikesc said...

Humperdink, I am not saying every single person affected by the program is better off, this is also statistically unlikely. But, to argue at this point that the ACA did not increase the greater good is just tilting at windmills. Multiple Republican governors have caved in on this program, under pressure from their constituents, and people in states where this didn't happen are now notably worse off in terms of coverage.

"Notably"?

Can you define what constitutes "notably" worse off as compared to those whose states did accept it?

What about states whose exchanges shat the bed and were shut down? Are they "better off"?

Unknown said...

ARM, there are arguments to be made for some of your minor points, and though you are wrong, you are at least plausible.

On the question of the incandescent light bulb, however, you're not even wrong.

Nobody had to ban buggy whips.

Achilles said...

AReasonableMan said...
I find it interesting that no one offered an example of another national government markedly better than our current Federal government. Puts the complaints into perspective.

10/6/14, 8:34 AM

Hong Kong used to be better before the Chicoms took it over. My In-laws live there and my wife was born there. But it was better because it was free and taxes were low. Now not so much. Government is stepping in and naturally corruption is growing rampantly.