October 17, 2014

Another Scott Walker/Mary Burke debate — BUMPED!

Tonight, at 7 Central, streaming here. Get ready. You have 3 hours and 20 minutes to get into the mood for a Wisconsin debate.

ADDED: I've moved this post up to the top of the blog, so you can watch and comment. I'm not going to live-blog, because that would be boring. For me. I'm going to lock in and watch straight through, maybe take some handwritten notes, and say whatever I have to say, about an hour from now.

POST-DEBATE UPDATE: A numbered list of observations, in no significant order:

1. The set is atrocious and endlessly distracting, with curving red-white-and-blue fabric behind them  that Meade said made them look like they were about to take off in hot-air balloons. And what was meant to evoke the American flag — as the minutes wore on — looked to me more like Confederate flags. The lecterns were strangely stumpy, making the candidates look absurdly short.

2. When the debate ended, the candidates walked away, and we could see that Mary Burke was wearing delicate high heels. These had made the candidates appear to be the same height, but poor Mary was stuck standing in those things for an hour, during which we never saw her feet. After the debate, she stalked off quickly, and I guessed it was to get out of those shoes. Scott Walker lingered and hung out with the panelists, remaining on camera, looking personable for a couple minutes while the jaunty dah-dah-DAH debate music played. We were a little giddy here at Meadhouse by then, and Meade was singing along with the pointless music.

3. My strongest overall observation is that Walker painted an optimistic, energetic picture, and Burke harped on negativity and kept telling us that what Walker has done is not good enough and we need to do better. This not-good-enough-need-to-do-better theme was repeated so often that we began to feel like kids getting chewed out by a teacher. Now, clearly, Burke is the one who must say a change is needed, but I don't think she gave change that lilt and lift it needs to not sound like scolding, and that left us primed to hear the good news from Walker. And Burke continually attacked Walker, telling him he hadn't done enough. He didn't return the attacks. He just launched into his version of how well things were going and how we need to keep up the good work.

4. The strongest distinction between the two came on drinking and driving. Wisconsin lets you off with just a ticket the first time you get caught, and Walker — while expressing his concern about drunk driving and his interest in punishing repeat offenders — made it clear that he'd keep all the Wisconsinites who haven't yet been caught in the golden zone of immunity where we only need to fear getting a ticket the first time we are stopped. If you want a misdemeanor charge for those who get stopped the first time, that's Mary Burke's position. I wouldn't vote for governor on this point alone, but Walker sent out the signal of leniency to the many, many Wisconsinites who've been going out drinking and making it home okay without incident.

5. On the question of a casino in Kenosha, the candidates were invited to open up about their moral feelings about gaming. Neither did.

6. There was one "fun" question, asking them what they'd do if they had to go a day without campaigning and would surely take to their preferred 2-wheeler, Burke on a Trek bike and Walker on a Harley. Where, exactly, would they go, and who would they go with? Walker gave the precise route, complete with route numbers and turns, and said he'd go with his usual "buddies" who motorcycle with him. Burke seemed nervous and said "um" a few times as she claimed she'd go back to her hometown and spend time with members of her family. Meade was heckling, saying that everyone knows that Mary Burke isn't much of a cyclist. Ah, but what was she supposed to do? The questioner imposed the assumption that if she had time off, of course, she'd bicycle. It would be awkward to refute that! Just because my family is in the bicycle business doesn't mean that when I get some time, what I want to do is bike. If her family were in the dairy business, would they assume that in her spare time, what she likes to do is drink milk?

7. They never talked about ebola! What the hell?!!

8. Some weird thing happened with the clock when Walker was answering his first question, suddenly lopping off a minute (or something). He had to spend time talking about that clock business. So: clockgate. Think about it.

68 comments:

John Lynch said...

So, you're saying we need to start drinking now.

Chris said...

"You have 3 hours and 20 minutes to get into the mood for a Wisconsin debate."

Not quite as subtle as an ED commercial.

David said...

That will not be enough time.

Anonymous said...

Will Burke bring a fan?

Birkel said...

Does Mary Burke have a plan for this debate? Whose plan is it?

Birkel said...

John Lynch:

Start drinking? *burp* Assumes facts not in evidence. *burp*

Anonymous said...

Debate bingo (drinking optional):

What are some bingo squares for this debate?

- Burke says "TREK"
- Walker says "China"
- Garage makes a tu quoque "defense" of Burke/ Democrats
- Burke evades a direct answer to question about whether she'd seek reversal of any part of Act 10

Talk amongst yourselves.

richard mcenroe said...

Burke promises to outlaw ebola in WI.

Rusty said...

"You have 3 hours and 20 minutes to get into the mood for a Wisconsin debate."


I'm not gonna! So there.


If it's like the last one I'm going to watch my water softener cycle through instead.
Much more interesting.

Mark said...

Pogo: please add

- sighting of Walker bald spot
- Ebola
- Jim Doyle reference
- Badger or Packer reference
- beer gets mentioned

All those are going on our debate drinking game.

The Crack Emcee said...

Report he smiled a lot and that'll cover the important topics.

Except if his wife's in the audience again.

Policy-wise, that makes all the difference,...

Ann Althouse said...

My drinking list:

Walker is asked what he's done so far about ebola.

Burke is asked what she'd have done already if she were governor.

The word "plagiarism"

The word "disaster" in the context of what Burke's predecessor as Secretary of Commerce said.

Mark said...

I will also drink when they accuse the other of things not within the power of the office and/or guaranteed impossible: such as Burke repealing Act 10 (she is not the legislature) or Walker passing bills.

phantommut said...

Drink fast.

Bobber Fleck said...

Mary is quite plastic tonight. She did a nice job of memorizing her opening statement, although she did have that one moment (a "tell") where she lost her place.

I can see why she was able to win a Madison school board seat for only $128K.

traditionalguy said...

The all white man panel of Journalists just demanded to know why black men are not getting hired.

Leslie Graves said...

Drinking lines:

Burke:

* "My experience at Trek bicycle".
* "I look forward to taking on the tough issues around education."
* "Affordable access to higher education."
* "I look forward as Governor to taking on this issue."
* "We do need to have that impartial study done."

Walker:

* "But let's be clear."
* "We've had to clean up that mess."
* "I love Kenosha."
* "I'm pleased to see how many new jobs we created."
* "Two words: Jim Doyle."

traditionalguy said...

Helping the NBA team and the casino gamblers are the problems Wisconsin voters worriy about? I thought they were all dairy farmers.

Mark said...

Clock-gate. Not a good moment for Walker, even if necessary.

Dan from Madison said...

Good god Burke seems so angry. Didn't her coaches tell her to smile? And a terrible outfit/makeup to boot.

garage mahal said...

Walker is losing bad. Real bad. Burke is next governor, I feel it already.

traditionalguy said...

WTF is Global Guru on Job Clusters?

traditionalguy said...

Burke is a MADD mother.

traditionalguy said...

Burke seems worn out by having to remember so many issues and talking points. Maybe she never had to work at it before...she just had to copy someone else's work, and buy status with Daddy's money.

traditionalguy said...

Burke is against millionaires, but she is the only one in the room.

Meade said...

I agree that garage feels it already.

Birkel said...

"garage mahal" has so many feelings. Bless his heart.

Meade said...

Sorry. I'm a little tipsy from following Leslie's drinking rules. But I'm not going to drive. I don't want to give Ms. Burke reason to crack down on me.

Meade said...

Ms. Burke already made me feel bad enough. For not working up to my potential and trying harder to move the needle.

Original Mike said...

Damn. Missed the debate. Was doing yard work

traditionalguy said...

Will Burke make it a crime to drive a bicycle drunk on a public Bike Trail? Treking Under the Influence sounds almost as immoral as casino gambling and ending the Teacher Union's eternal gravy train.

My final opinion is that Burke is not doing enough in her run for Governor...she could do a much better job than coming in dead last among Mid Western States in attractive women candidacies mumbling talking points.

Meade said...

Wisconsin is dead last in yard work. Thanks to Walker.

Meade said...

A governor Burke would move the pine needle.

Original Mike said...

I'm tired of paying for my own retirement. Go Mary!

Meade said...

John Lynch said...
"So, you're saying we need to start drinking now."

The opposite. Under Governor Burke we need to STOP drinking now.

Alex said...

Walker is a real guy with substance. Burke is a phony in a cheap suit.

The voters will decide.

Alex said...

I mean that question about how to spend free time. Walker gave a substantive answer with exact details that everyone can relate to on a human level. Burke gave some vague answer that makes you think she lives in an ivory tower.

Voters will decide.

Patrick said...

Voters all the way down.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

So Walker was clock-blocked?

Anonymous said...

I noticed Walker's unfortunate bald spot wasn't nearly as noticeable during this debate and he looked a bit more pulled together. In the first debate, I noticed the bald spot constantly and his suit seemed ill-fitting. I'm a Walker supporter and yet I couldn't help thinking he looked like a Walgreen's manager, not a governor.

Burke looked like a professional - but she comes across as an entirely humorless scold. The schoolmarm comparison is a good one. I could very easily picture her at a parent-teacher conference telling me that she caught my son passing notes in spelling class.

MathMom said...

Shoes.

Ann Althouse said...

We were commenting on the bad tailoring of Walker's suit, and I was saying he should just get a toupee so the bald spot isn't a distraction. Why not?

Burke's shoes looked really nice. Why wouldn't they? She's rich!

Her suit and clothes looked perfect.

Both candidates have deep set eyes that are close together and small in a way that doesn't work well on tv. Neither is engaging to watch.

And they both have a similar way of garbling words. You're on tv! Enunciate!

garage mahal said...

My impostor is back I see. Lame.

I listened to the debate on the radio and that had to the most substance-free debate I've ever heard.

madAsHell said...

I was saying he should just get a toupee so the bald spot isn't a distraction.

No, just let it go. A toupee is a huge distraction. It's no better than the high heels.

Anonymous said...

Burke blew it. The pro-drunk crowd will now carry Walker to sure victory

Anonymous said...

I find it difficult to imagine Walker on a Harley. "Get yer motor running/head out on the highway..."

No. Really, just no.

On the other hand, I can imagine Mary Burke on the bike trail very easily. Helmet and biker pants on, frowning grimly, checking her pulse rate every 5 minutes - and entirely missing any lovely scenery around her. I see people like that on the bike trail all the time. They're not enjoying the ride, they're getting in their doctor-ordered 40 minutes of exercise.

Anonymous said...

" The pro-drunk crowd will now carry Walker to sure victory"

True, that. I was at Lambeau Field recently. The pro-drunk crowd there comprised 95% of the Packer fans in attendance.

Anonymous said...

garage mahal said...
My impostor is back I see. Lame.

So that was not you? I cut and copied and saved that quote in the event of a Walker victory, but if you didn't write it, I won't use it against you.

I might be, in your eyes, jes' a dumb redneck wingnut who somehow got stranded here in ultra-progressive Shorewood, but I do try to be honest.

mccullough said...

Friday night seems like a bad time to hold a debate

David said...

Walker could wear a clown nose. That would make the bald spot disappear.

Burke could have campaigned on a bike--long trips with a growing contingent of followers, like Forest Gump when he took up running. But that would require effort.

James said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James said...

Eh...I couldn't be bothered to watch either debate. I follow WI politics closely and I doubt anything substantive could have emerged from the two debates.

On Monday I'm heading down to the City Hall to vote for Scott Walker, Rebecca Kleefisch, and Brad Schimel on my absentee ballot. And YES on the constitutional amendment.

Paul Ryan is a different story. His betrayal on immigration, and his pandering to groups like Voces de la Frontera at recent town hall meetings means that I just can't vote for him again. He'll win - hopefully by a narrower margin than previously - and certainly without my vote.

The Right Side said...

Since this was TV and much of this is about appearances why has no one mentioned Mary Burke's wrinkles?

Leslie Graves said...

I can't think about clockgate because I have a hangover.

Hagar said...

I think commenting on Burke's shoes is sexist.

garage mahal said...

So that was not you? I cut and copied and saved that quote in the event of a Walker victory, but if you didn't write it, I won't use it against you.

No it wasn't me.

MathMom said...

Burke reminds me of the Kennedy brothers, or maybe a Kennedy sister?

Big Mike said...

what Walker has done is not good enough and we need to do better.

Even if true, what makes anyone think she could do any better?

Here's the thing to remember. Change is easy. Change in a positive direction is very, very hard. Look at Obama and Obamacare. He passed Obamacare and had time for numerous expensive vacations plus 200 rounds of golf. But if you're like me and paying more for worse coverage you might reasonably conclude that the change was not in positive direction.

garage mahal said...

The WBA couldn't find one black panelist in Wisconsin for a debate in Milwaukee, in a debate largely about Milwaukee. Four vacuous white boomers. Tells you everything you need to know about Wisconsin politics. No questions about education, the minimum wage, healthcare, or the environment.

sane_voter said...

Wisconsin is 86% white and 6% black. If you want to quota the panelists, 1/16 will be black. So maybe one for every four debates. What's the problem?

Birkel said...

"garage mahal":
"No questions about education, the minimum wage, healthcare, or the environment."

Education: Nothing the education establishment has done has improved education. Quite the opposite, most people would agree. The Department of Education has wasted resources and produced poor results. Government at its finest.

Minimum Wage: Machines will replace an awful lot of unskilled labor and raising the minimum wage will hasten that result. Why do you hate poor people?

Healthcare: Since the government has taken over health insurance but not changed the number of health care providers (except to encourage earlier retirement from older doctors who are financially secure and don't want the headaches of governmentally required paperwork) I cannot fathom what you would want anybody to ask. Perhaps you wanted a question like "Given the move to concierge service and cash-only medical practices, how should government squash those reasonable, rational responses?"

Environment: Given the impending winter, the lack of hurricanes in the Atlantic, the lack of measurable warming, the lack of oceanic warming, the increasing ice coverage at the poles, the increasing polar bear populations and so forth... Why do you want to waste anybody's time in a debate because of your cargo-cult stupidity?

David Blaska said...

If Walker had set as his goal 100,000 new jobs — an ambitious-enough goal — Our Ms. Burke wouldn't have a campaign. Her candidacy is all about undoing Act 10 but that doesn't poll well with the swing voters. There is a reason MTI union boss John Matthews stood (rather menacingly) behind Our Ms. B. for her entire oration at Fighting BoobFest last month and it wasn't to grow the economy.

sane_voter said...

If Walker had set as his goal 100,000 new jobs — an ambitious-enough goal — Our Ms. Burke wouldn't have a campaign.

Walkers problem is he didn't expect that our president would so cripple the economy and discourage job creators that jobs just aren't getting created at any reasonable numbers anywhere in the US (except maybe Texas).

The Crack Emcee said...

"What was meant to evoke the American flag — as the minutes wore on — looked to me more like Confederate flags."

So it was an appropriate setting.

"Scott Walker lingered and hung out with the panelists, remaining on camera, looking personable for a couple minutes while the jaunty dah-dah-DAH debate music played. We were a little giddy here at Meadhouse by then, and Meade was singing along with the pointless music."

The pointless candidate, you mean - unless racism is pointless, I don't know.

"My strongest overall observation is that Walker painted an optimistic, energetic picture,..."

Hitler did that, too - lots of photos with dogs, too.

"The strongest distinction between the two came on drinking and driving."

I need a drink, if that's the best they can do with all the problems Wisconsin's blacks are suffering.

"On the question of a casino in Kenosha, the candidates were invited to open up about their moral feelings about gaming. Neither did."

Because whites have no "moral feelings". They have feelings - they've made that clear - but the moral part seems to escape them.

"There was one "fun" question,..."

This is where politics gets serious in this country - "Girls just wanna have fun", right?

"They never talked about ebola! What the hell?!!"

Non-existent concerns shouldn't be the subject of debates - even if whites (alone) are freaking-the-fuck-out to Drudge.

"Some weird thing happened with the clock when Walker was answering his first question, suddenly lopping off a minute (or something). He had to spend time talking about that clock business. So: clockgate. Think about it."

You can be so shallow it's alarming,...

The Crack Emcee said...

"Both candidates have deep set eyes that are close together and small in a way that doesn't work well on tv."

My friends and I say that, every day, about whites on television,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Looking at this list, I am convinced, whites have no idea what an "important issue" is.

Fucking dolphins and clockgate.

Think about it.

Birkel said...

Godwin. Alert.

donald said...

You are a massive loser Crack.

The worst of the worst. Go blow some fat white pussy (Garage!) for dope money.

Then you can rock (Or post incomprehensible rulings all night).😃