August 23, 2014

The Washington Redskins need to change their name... to The Washington Posts.

In honor of the brave warrior spirit of The Washington Post, which is taking a bold and daring stand against printing the name "Redskins."

That is the kind of courage and strength that translates elegantly to football, a game where players regularly risk hurting one another and are, accordingly, bound by an elaborate system of rules — which are frequently amended to limit the extent of injuries — by defining penalties. For example, "One arm in front of the body with palm out and fingers up, moved in a pushing motion" is a penalty called "illegal contact." Watching a game, I am often perplexed by the erudite officials in striped shirts who throw down what I like to refer to as "hankies" when these players — who seem so tough and ready for action — do something that the higher ups have deemed offensive.

So the metaphorical meaning is perfectly fine: The Washington Redskins must become The Washington Posts. 

I know, you might say "Posts" reminds you of something that's stuck in one place and never moves, which seems like the opposite of football, where the point is to gain territory. But they are trying to reach the goal posts. So "posts" is a football word. And I would also note that there many points in football when an offensive player offends by simply moving. It's a "false start." So you are sometimes required to be like a post.

And don't get after me about trademark law. The Washington Post is in the newspaper business, not the football business. There's no risk of confusion. It's like Apple records and Apple computers.

160 comments:

The Crack Emcee said...

"The Washington Redskins must become The Washington Posts."

Because they're already famous for dick moves.

Why stop now?

The Crack Emcee said...

Why not give in and be decent?

Why can't whites ever say they're wrong?

Why must they continually shame themselves attempting to avoid shame?

They will destroy this country before they decide to help it,...

Hagar said...

Or keep the name and change the logo to a cluster of redskin potatoes.

F said...

Why can't whites ever say they're wrong?

You mean like the people at the Post saying they are taking the wrong position on this?

Drago said...

So the post will not use "Redskins" editorially, but the sports pages will continue as they always have!

LOL

How often does the Wash Post editorial pages even address a topic where the football Redskins are part of the conversation?

Hilariously "brave" and "courageous" stance by the Post.

Drago said...

Hagar said...
Or keep the name and change the logo to a cluster of redskin potatoes.

"Hail to the taters,
Hail victory,
Spuds on the warpath!
Fight for old DC!!"

Drago said...

You know who was a huge fan of the "racistly" named Redskins?

Ted Kennedy.

Liberal Lion of the Senate.

When he wasn't busy committing vehicular manslaughter of course.

Revenant said...

Why can't whites ever say they're wrong?

I said I was wrong once, but later it turned out I was mistaken about that.

hstad said...

Crack Emcee announces, "...Why not give in and be decent..."? About what? You do know your racists rants fall on deaf ears and show your ignorance to all! What I find funny is in the Navajo Nation, Red Mesa High School uses the name for its sports teams as well. LOL! All these media wh*res and PC people put to shame!

Michael K said...

The comments are hilarious. I would suggest the name "Washington Pussies." For the paper, not the team.

dhagood said...

i prefer the washington putz, myself

Michael K said...

"Crack Emcee announces,"

If a fool says something foolish, does that make him more of a fool, less of a fool or does anyone notice ?

Ann Althouse said...

It would be nice if commenters would address the many points I raised in my… uh… post instead of getting dragged into back-and-forth by Crack, who is basically repeating things he's already said many times.

I thought I brought something new and interesting to the table here, or I would not have blogged this story at all.

You are being baited by Crack and it's wrecking this thread.

Ann Althouse said...

The phrase "dumb as a post" has many applications.

dreams said...

"You are being baited by Crack and it's wrecking this thread."

It does take two or more to play that game.

Real American said...

let's combine both main topics in this thread and call them the Washington Crackheads.

Birches said...

Ha Ha. Yes, The Wapo sure is courageous. Redskins will be all over the Sports pages, but those editorials will no longer be using the word.

Posts is right. Dumb as a Post.

dreams said...

Given the similarity to a liberal newspaper, I'd consider it a slur. A correction to my earlier comment. I thought something wasn't right about it.

Birches said...

Ahhh --- you already said it!

traditionalguy said...

The Washington Cons sounds about right. Sun Tzu would approve.

Fun will be had by all when the Cons start sending out their own coaches dressed as referees and carrying bigger penalty flags to throw at the NFL Jr. Varsity referees smaller flags to signal a filabuster.

Then there will be a delay for Certiorari to the Supreme Court that allows more TV commercial time and sets for the topless cheerleader team post dancing.

Progressive morality is fun. And what about the first female QB...we demand gender justice.

hstad said...

Althouse states - "There's no risk of confusion. It's like Apple records and Apple computers"? I don't think so Ann! Both companies fought a major infringement suit which resulted in Apple Computers paying Apple Records a hefty sum! But the supposition you are making is so lame, "Posts" is not exactly a moving and attractive word describing America's dynamic game! I can just hear all the lame metaphors coming from sports writers after the team lost a game! LOL! Yours - 'dumb as posts' is just the beginning. Stick to law Althouse - marketing/advertising is not your forte!

dreams said...

I have a low opinion of the Washington Post, also the NY Times.

traditionalguy said...

And the name footBALL is sexist. It favors humans with balls and disrespects the others...it is like... rape.

traditionalguy said...

And what the heck is the origin of the word etymology, anyway?

ddh said...

Even in the Daniel Snyder era, the Washington Redskins are way more popular in the Washington area than the Washington Post.

ddh said...

hstad, bless his heart, is irony-impaired.

dreams said...

I wonder what their position was/is on the Dems and probably their own reporters and columnists calling members of the Tea Party tea baggers.

dreams said...

"The phrase "dumb as a post" has many applications."

In this context, I think it applies to the Washington Post.

hstad said...

ddh, nice try on the sarcasm/irony angle - I initially thought the article concluded - until Ann threw in the trademark BS! If you are correct, then I and you got hoodwinked into reading a completely BS article and wasted your time as well as mine!

Anonymous said...

When the Washington Bullets relinquished their name due to delicate sensibilities the Posts would've been more appropriate, with its basketball connotations.

Static Ping said...

let's combine both main topics in this thread and call them the Washington Crackheads.

Considering the former mayor, current councilman....

EDH said...

Okay, but only if that "Washington Posts" have Indians tied to them who are being whipped by whitey.

Hagar said...

I wonder if someone is paying Crack to write this stuff?

It is difficult to see anyone doing it on his own, but I could see some elderly moneybags not familiar with the internet paying a younger person to do it and not realizing that if anything it hurts the "black" cause.

richard mcenroe said...

The Washington Alcoholic Keno Dealers?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

The football team has admitted that "The Washington Redskins" is insulting and demeaning.

From now on, they will be known as "The Redskins."

jr565 said...

In the case of Crack derailing the thread, I will at least say that here is critique is at least in a similar ball park. Brining race relations into a discussion of ISIS maybe not so relevant, but the question about the Redskins name is a question about racial questions to a certain degree.

jr565 said...

"Or keep the name and change the logo to a cluster of redskin potatoes."
Or they keep the name and just make the person on the logo a Caucasian with a sunburn.

richard mcenroe said...

El Crack, hombres blancos puede admitir que estaban equivocados acerca de muchas cosas. La Decimotercera Enmienda, las Enmiendas XIV y XV, la Ley de Derechos Electorales, la Gran Sociedad ... todos los errores terribles. Es por eso que estamos importando todas estas personas asiáticas e hispanas ahora, para asegurar que no cometemos los mismos errores otra vez.

richard mcenroe said...

JR665 It's ISIL, you racist hater, you! Our beloved President has said so.

richard mcenroe said...

Washington Sports Team admits name insulting and demeaning, drops use of word "Senators"...

jr565 said...

Would it be racist to have a sports team called the Kamikazes?

Static Ping said...

Alright, it's your blog and I'll comment on your comment, damnit.

The Washington Post's (newspaper) courageous stand against offending no one in particular other than professional victims with a completely meaningless and futile gesture that impresses exactly no one, including their own family members and pets, is a sad commentary on the current status of the American media. Sadly, this also reflects on the American people who continue to give them sufficient attention and funding to remain employed. This is a mistake that will be corrected one way or another, though whether this will be corrected well is not something I am optimistic about. Idiocy rarely ends well. It is just a matter of how many people get splatted.

The Redskins changing their name to the "Posts" is a non-starter. If anything the new name would be more offensive that what they have now. For instance the radical feminists would cry over the obvious misogyny of phallic iconography. Worse, phrases like the “Posts are penetrating” or the “the new Posts wide receiver Dick Cox” would give Phil Simms the giggles during the broadcast and who wants that?

chillblaine said...

"you are sometimes required to be like a post."

Or, maybe, a Monument?

Michael said...

God help us all. The WP will be PC on its editorial page but will not be PC in its "news" pages. How crazy have we gotten. And they make an announcement of why they are not going to use a name they never use in the first place. Henceforth should they have to weigh in on the Washington Redskins and the vital importance for humanity to have the name changed they will not be able to use the name. People will have to guess what they are feverishly editorializing about.

Mary Beth said...

Ann Althouse said...

The phrase "dumb as a post" has many applications.

8/23/14, 11:39 AM


I thought it was supposed to mean "mute" but that now everyone thinks it means "stupid" since "dumb" (as in deaf and dumb) isn't PC.

tim maguire said...

My first thought was Emily Post, The Washington Emily Posts.

I'm still waiting for one of the Redskins' critics to prove that "Redskin" is a derogatory term. So far they've all just assumed it.

wendybar said...

The Washington Post is a joke of a newspaper. They used to be good...years ago. They are as biased as the NYTimes are now.

Fernandinande said...


Most Indians Say Name of Washington “Redskins” Is Acceptable While 9 Percent Call It Offensive, Annenberg Data Show

n.n said...

I don't recall that "redskin" originally served a derogatory purpose. It was a physiologically-motivated term of reference when names were unknown or as a generic substitute for the "other" party. Similar to "pale-face" or "white man". It acquired its slanderous properties with exceptions and urban nuance.

It seems that a positive association... Assuming that football is a respected athletic competition... is a meaningful way to honor and preserve a history. The use of "redskin" in a popular athletic competition actually pays homage to the object associated with the term.

Perhaps the conclusion we should draw is that post is an appropriate metaphor for the reactionaries at The Washington Post. Their investment in exploiting real and manufactured divisions for leverage has left them as a post stuck in the muck.

etbass said...

"You are being baited by Crack and it's wrecking this thread."

Are you kidding? It's almost wrecked this blog in the past few weeks. I'm barely hanging on hoping somebody will take charge.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Really, they should become the "Washington Indians" or the "Washington Braves." For some reason nobody gives a crap about those MLB team names.

My theory was, since the Redskins' owner donates to Republicans he has been singled out by the racist Sen. Harry Reid. The Braves skate because they are owned by the famously liberal Time-Warner Corp. On the other hand, Larry and Paul Dolan, owners of the Indians, donated to Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell. Betcha anything they're next up for the pillory.

Revenant said...

I have to hand it to the grievance industry -- they've found a way to make football even less interesting to me. I would not have thought that possible.

Yu-Ain Gonnano said...

I would not worry too much about the connotation of "(goal)Posts" as stationary. The newspaper is certainly adept at moving them.

dreams said...

Why would a team give themselves a name that is a slur, they wouldn't. This was all ginned up by liberal sportswriters, I'm been following sports almost all my life, about 60 years and I can tell you that sportswriters are the most liberal people in the news media.

David said...

I went to the Packers exhibition game last night. Warm humid night, not very Green Bayish. Large quantities of dead animal products were being consumed by the mellow tailgaters. And that name. Packers! Animal killers. PETA is missing an opportunity for outrage.



Anonymous said...

Washington Post gotta potate.

Yu-Ain Gonnano said...

Would it be racist to have a sports team called the Kamikazes?

I don't know, but we wouldn't do it to those lily white Irish folks.

Oh wait.

Anonymous said...

On the names of things...(I hope this close enough to the theme of the blog post about the newspaper Post and the potential football Posts). Lots of towns (maybe Postville, Iowa) name streets after presidents, states, and trees. I have notices that streets are never named after diseases. I have never seen Anthrax Avenue or Cholera Court.
Then I visited Fort Hood in the course of my civilian job. Still no disease names but they have Tank Destroyer Avenue and Hell on Wheels Boulevard if I remember correctly.

My local team is the Texans. Maybe DC's team can be the Columbians. Is that controversial?

dreams said...

"Really, they should become the "Washington Indians" or the "Washington Braves." For some reason nobody gives a crap about those MLB team names."

They will be next, one step at a time.

Anonymous said...

If Washington does get named the Posts does that mean Eli Manning will be the quarterback for the NY Times?

n.n said...

Static Ping:

The Washington Post will no longer use "post" in their reporting. The Washington Post apologizes for their historic subjugation of women and will immediately change its name to "The Washington Test Tube".

Static Ping said...

To be slightly more serious, here are some nicknames, both past and current, used for various sports teams in Washington:

BASEBALL
Olympics
Blue Legs
Senators
Nationals (current)
Black Senators
Elite Giants
Pilots
Potomacs
Grays

BASKETBALL
Capitols
Caps
Bullets
Wizards (current)
Mystics (current)

FOOTBALL
Senators (again)
Redskins (current)

HOCKEY
Lions
Capitals (current)

SOCCER
United (current)
Freedom
Spirit (current, apparently)
Diplomats
Whips
Darts
"Team America"

(I'll spare you the "Ultimate Frisbee" team and other lesser lights. I draw the line after soccer.)

Diplomats? Really?

The only past name that I would consider even worth bringing back is "Grays" because of the rich history from the Baseball Negro Leagues. It would have been a good name for the current baseball team, but being Washington they went with the boring, selected by a committee of people who you wouldn't invite to your home lest they steal your jewelry, yet presumptuous as a politician tends to be "Nationals."

MadisonMan said...

Didn't the Post Sue the Washington Host back in the 90s for trademark infringement?

exhelodrvr1 said...

The Washington Earlier Americans

dreams said...

The Native Americans, it seems to me, are starting to prefer the role of victim over the pride of being perceived as great warriors. Always a lot of pressure to be politically correct.

Anonymous said...

Following Althouse's thought of the higher-ups making the rules -- "...do something that the higher ups have deemed offensive" -- it seems to me the Washington Post (and media in general) want to be the Instant Replay Booth for society, wherein they can make the final determination of if the call on the field is correct.

David said...

The Crack Emcee said...
Why not give in and be decent?


Stubborn owner. Fan base largely unconcerned. Valuable trademark. Stuff like that.

It will change when the league sees an interest in doing so. That may be coming soon. The biggest shame in the NFL is to stain the brand. In the past the objection has been seen as that of a vocal small group and not representative of even the tribes as a whole. Seems to me they can't support that position any more.

Next Up: Kansas City Chiefs. They claim their name was chosen as follows:

This original AFL franchise was originally the Dallas Texans but relocated to Kansas City. Owner Lamar Hunt picked Chiefs as a nickname to honor Kansas City mayor Roe “The Chief” Bartle for his efforts in securing the team. Bartle promised to enlarge Kansas City’s Municipal Stadium and guaranteed Hunt three times as many season ticket sales as his club had in Dallas.

If this be true, it's not too clear why there is an arrowhead on the helmet of the team that plays in Arrowhead Stadium.

Michael K said...

The grievance industry is trying too hard. They should all be in Ferguson trying to lynch that white policemen but here they are on a futile gesture to appease the unappeasable in left wing America.

Anonymous said...

Obviously there are differing views on this topic. Can I suggest one thing we can all agree on?

IF the team is renamed, can it please be a noun that can be pluralized?

Please, no more "Heat" or "Thunder".

Thank you.

Chef Mojo said...

Just call them the Washington Blanks. Then everyone can free associate and be special snowflakes.

With all the other shit going on, the Post just reinforces how irellevant it's become with this insipid editorial.

Calling the team the "Posts" would imply the same unseriousness and irellevancy.

Alex said...

Whatever Crack considers decent, I consider indecent and will do the opposite.

Alex said...

Because obviously there are no more important things to worry about other than sports teams named after Native Americans.

Alex said...

The real offense was bringing the diseases that wiped out 95% of the original peoples on this continent and slaughtering many more from 1500-1900. What's done is done.

traditionalguy said...

Seriously we are fortunate the DC team used Redskins. They were the only NFL team located in a former pro-slavery secessionist area of the country. (Texas being a hybrid west of the Mississippi that usually enslaved Mexicanos).

But in the 1950 days of three channels on B&W TV showing one game, Washington was considered the South's team. Their game was the only NFL game shown down here on Sunday. We wanted them to beat the Yankee teams. We never heard of Green Bay until Lombardi made them winners in the 1960s.

So to honor DC we should rename them the Owners. Donald Sterling has some cash available to buy the team.

hombre said...

Crack: "Why can't whites ever say they're wrong?"

Pretty tough if approached from your point of view, race hustler. Since by that standard we are always wrong.

John said...

This is pretty rich:

Ann Althouse said...

It would be nice if commenters would address the many points I raised in my… uh… post instead of getting dragged into back-and-forth by Crack, who is basically repeating things he's already said many times.

I thought I brought something new and interesting to the table here, or I would not have blogged this story at all.

You are being baited by Crack and it's wrecking this thread.


You used to say you would deleted comments that were off topic. I don't know whether you did or not but Crack has always has immunity from that.

Many people, including myself, asked you to do something about it. Some went so far as to ask for a blanket ban on Crack. Not me, I specifically took exception to calls to ban him and still do.

Your silence and inaction led some of us to believe that the off topic badinage with Crack was what you were looking for and we were happy to oblige as it is always fun to get him wound up.

He seemed to think that he was your pet and immune to normal discourse. He has said as much on several occasions here in the comments.

So now what are you saying, you've had enough? It's your blog, your comments, when you do moderate you have the power not to approve his off topic rants. Had you done that, the rest of us would have stayed on topic as well.

How many threads has he wrecked where you approved every single one of his offtopic rants?

Hell, we thought this was what you wanted. You keep letting him rant, we'll keep winding him up.

You want us to stay on topic? Keep him on topic.

Or is he really your pet as he claims? Another possibility: Is there a double standard for blacks and whites here on this blog? The tyranny of low expectations by progressive professors. He's black, we can't expect any better of him. (Not my view, BTW)

Hmmmmm... Ms Blog Hostess?

John Henry

Gusty Winds said...

How about the "Washington Casino Owners"? Change the name, keep the logo.

traditionalguy said...

Dear John...The Professor is not the problem. Her valid point is that if you will not try to out debate Crack, then 300 comment threads will revert again to 50 comments.

Besides you cannot change Crack's mind, because a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory.

dreams said...

You know, when you stop and think about, its the liberals who are being racist for it apparently has never occurred to them that Native Americans would feel a sense of pride at having competitive sports teams give themselves names that pay tribute to Native American history of being great warriors.

Basically liberals are nothing but condescending racist hypocrites.

Krumhorn said...

And don't get after me about trademark law. The Washington Post is in the newspaper business, not the football business. There's no risk of confusion. It's like Apple records and Apple computers.

Hmmmm......dunno about that, Ann. There's always that pesky area of trademark law concerning famous marks that drags dilution and blurring into the picture under the Federal Trademark Dilution Act that focuses on dilution of distinctiveness rather than confusion. And then there are local unfair competition laws to deal with.

The Washington Post/The Washington Posts? I'll take the plaintiff's side of that case...and I'm not a litigator. They should stick with Redskins and let the freakin' looselugnut libruls braise in their own self-righteous juices.

-Krumhorn

Gahrie said...

Would it be racist to have a sports team called the Kamikazes?

No more so than one called the "Fighting Irish".

hombre said...

Here is a comment from WaPo:

hayekistheman
11:27 AM MST
I guess the WaPo forgot to inform the Navajo tribe HS (Red Mesa) about the insulting team nickname.....
http://rmusdhs.ss4.sharpschool.com

The Navajo are the US's largest tribe. How could they have not gotten the message?

Gahrie said...

And the name footBALL is sexist. It favors humans with balls and disrespects the others...it is like... rape.

Well many Europeans insist the sport should be called handegg, because the ball is shaped like an egg, and is carried everywhere.

Alex said...

The Washington Vaginas?

Alex said...

The left won't be satisfied until they've destroyed ever last vestige of macho pride.

Michael K said...

"The real offense was bringing the diseases that wiped out 95% of the original peoples on this continent and slaughtering many more from 1500-1900. What's done is done."

Yes, they knew all about viruses in 1492.The Indians got superlative revenge with syphilis, unknown in Europe before Columbus' return. Syphilis in those early years was really horrendous. I don't hold it against the Indians but then I'm not a lefty.

Birkel said...

Why can't a bunch of white folks understand that we Native Americans don't give a damn about a football team's nickname?

Let's not be selective about such things. Okay? If the Redskins are asked to change their name then the Dakotas must be renamed. Illinois must be renamed. Every town, burg, lake, river, creek and et cetera must be renamed if it was initially named after Native Americans or else it's all just a stance taken by political bullies. Right?

Meanwhile, the Cherokee High School Indians ought to change their name too, right?

Totalitarians all the way down. But I can understand how a 5 year old would pronounce "totalitarian" as "turtle".

Tom_Ohio said...

Salute to you and yours Ann, and the commenters also, I read you everyday.
It is rather.. odd, that you post a story about the Post and then reference posts and post in the body. I only wish you had included the post-pattern in it to complete that tri-fecta.
As for the gist of the comments and the arguments well one is on one side or the other and I do not have to tell my side, but I enjoy watching the Redskins play on the holidays and they have had many memorable games and plays.

Seeing Red said...

Washington moneyhole

richard mcenroe said...

Birkel My Delaware/Cherokee wife has no problem with the Redskins aside from their crappy play-calling.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

How about a name that really screams "Washinton, DC"?

I propose the Washington Grafters!

Mark O said...

Here is the fight song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOCxegQupMU

rhhardin said...

Why not change the name of the indians.

I recommend this for every offended minority group.

Blacks do it all the time.

Birkel said...

richard mcenroe:

My wife hates football and every other sport. But she would no more be bothered by a nickname than the weather in New Zealand. It is of absolutely no import to her except those 4 months of the year when she watches TV in the bedroom and I get to dominate the living room.

My granddad was born on the res. Helped support his family through the dustbowl as a young teenager. He fought for his country in WWII. I cannot recall my granddad caring about football nicknames and we had occasion to chat about much else.

We Native Americans have never concerned ourselves with such trivia. That is the province of Liberal Totalitarians.

rhhardin said...

I blame Big Wampum.

rhhardin said...

Newspaper bribed with many beads.

jacksonjay said...

I was convinced that the gracious hostess was thrilled with the Cracked Threads. Now she says ignore Crack? After months of promoting Crack, now she says ignore Crack! I'm confused.

Birkel said...

rhhardin:
That's funny!

I blame the lack of an important enzyme.

Paco Wové said...

"In the past the objection has been seen as that of a vocal small group and not representative of even the tribes as a whole. Seems to me they can't support that position any more."

Why not? What do you base that impression on?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

John Henry is right.

Althouse holds Crack free from censure because...?

...he's black and deserves Althouse Affirmative Action?

...he's had a tough life (poor baby) and she needs to give him a break?

...whites are every one of them bloodthirsty racists, and they need to be carefully taught?

...he's darned good for traffic and she's gotta pump up that Amazon account?

...all of the above?

Whatever. It's clear Crack is above criticism.

It would be nice if commenters would address the many points I raised in my… uh… post instead of getting dragged into back-and-forth by Crack, who is basically repeating things he's already said many times.

See what I mean? It's your fault, commenter. Crack is just being Crack.

Meade said...

"That is the province of Liberal Totalitarians."

The Washington Liberal Totalitarians. I like.

"Liars" for short.

garage mahal said...

We Native Americans have never concerned ourselves with such trivia

Indeed. What Native American would be offended by the term used for collected bloody scalps for money?

" “His Majesty’s subjects to Embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing and Destroying all and every of the aforesaid Indians.” They paid well – 50 pounds for adult male scalps; 25 for adult female scalps; and 20 for scalps of boys and girls under age 12."

damikesc said...

I have to hand it to the grievance industry -- they've found a way to make football even less interesting to me. I would not have thought that possible.

Calling what the Reskins play "football" is being generous...

jacksonjay said...

To quote the very quotable George W. Bush: "And I will confront another form of bias: the soft bigotry of low expectations."

Paco Wové said...

The Washington Bureaucrats
The Washington Feathernesters
The Washington Gerrymanders
The Washington Gridlockers
The Washington Rentseekers
The Washington Imperials
The Washington Peasant-squashers
The Washington Double-dippers
...

Pete said...

"You are being baited by Crack. . ."

Well, he is a master of it.

Get it? *nudge nudge*

buwaya puti said...

How about the Washington Redtapes?
It honors the main industry of the city and the region, and the primary occupation of most of their fans.
They can keep the colors too.

exhelodrvr1 said...

And the British also paid the Indians for colonists scalps during the Revolutionary War.

twgin said...

Ann says:

"It would be nice if commenters would address the many points I raised in my… uh… post instead of getting dragged into back-and-forth by Crack, who is basically repeating things he's already said many times.

I thought I brought something new and interesting to the table here, or I would not have blogged this story at all.

You are being baited by Crack and it's wrecking this thread."

I think it is possible to do a macro or something such that this entire comment can be reproduced by one keystroke. It could then be inserted easily into each and every comment thread on this blog.

Alternatively, our dear leader could just completely surrender and rename the site "CrackBlog". Or perhaps "CrackPot" which could be seen as a subtle pun on "CrackPost".

Fen said...

"Your silence and inaction led some of us to believe that the off topic badinage with Crack was what you were looking for"

Actually, her lack of moderation re Crack has led many of us to wonder if she's using him as a passive-agressive way for her to troll us.

I was beginning to think Crack was a Meade sockpuppet, hence the implicit approval of his racist rants.

Ann Althouse said...

"ddh, nice try on the sarcasm/irony angle - I initially thought the article concluded - until Ann threw in the trademark BS! If you are correct, then I and you got hoodwinked into reading a completely BS article and wasted your time as well as mine!"

Check my link, which includes: "The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount … later revealed to be $80,000."

In other words, it was settled for nothing. Reports were that it might have been $50–250 million, but it wasn't. Apple computers agreed to stay out of the record business.

After that, the litigation is based on contract law, because of the settlement agreement.

Actually, I'm not sure what you're talking about. What "article"? My post? The linked Wikipedia article?

Eh. In any case, this is humor, and the trademark issues depend on being in the same business. Check out the new litigation involving Duke University and the heirs of John "Duke" Wayne (who are branding some alcoholic beverage).

lemondog said...

"Liars" for short.

Pinocchio logo....or is that trademark infringement?

Pants on Fire logo?

Meade said...

Nixon's profile on one side of the helmet; Bill Clinton's on the other.

Fen said...

and oh, I didn't mean to imply Meade is using a Crack sockpuppet to be engage in racism, I meant playing one just to tweak readers.

Meade said...

I won't imply anything. I'll just come right out and say it plainly:

I don't think even you know what you mean, Fen.

Birkel said...

Thank goodness I have people like "garage mahal" to tell me how I should be offended.

You'll have to tell a whole lot of Native Americans before you can put your white man's guilt off on us.

/crack

Seriously, we don't care. That you do is silly.

RLB_IV said...

We have seen Crack and we have seen Meade but not together in the same room. That being said Althouse has always said to avoid engaging a commenter you perceive as a disruption. The Crack Emcee is the man with the mirror. If you do not wish to be reflected in the mirror do not engage.

traditionalguy said...

Has anyone said The Washington Postals?


n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

"Brin[g]ing race relations into a discussion of ISIS maybe not so relevant, but the question about the Redskins name is a question about racial questions to a certain degree."

But that can be a worse sort of derailing, to plug in the same old stuff because the topic seems close and to undercut the reason for the post, which is that I thought I had something new.

That's not necessarily trolling, and it happens a lot, but it bothers me, because it's often right at the top of the thread, and the thread looks like threads we've already done, and then I feel as though my post was pointless, as I didn't mean to just say: This is your cue to talk about X again.

But X has been a theme, and there's something new about X, so let's go some new places. Let's go somewhere we haven't seen. Then no one seems to see that I pointed out a new direction, and they plug in the old stuff they were reminded of, which of course they have ready to go. And those things trigger other people to plug in their old responses to that, and the thread is instantly stale.

I would love if commenters would help me out with that problem!

n.n said...

Since there is a positive association with "redskin", "Comanche", "Apache", and other Indian terms of art, it may be concluded that efforts to remove these symbolics from American civil and popular culture is intended to corrupt reconciliation and assimilation efforts of people with difficult but overlapping and, in fact, convergent paths. It is designed to ensure that descendents of the dozens of tribes should not feel welcome in America, as Americans, and will remain in a perpetual state of agitation. That other people will feel anxious and develop prejudices against them. It's a perfect recipe to forget and exploit for political leverage.

RLB_IV said...

Personally I prefer The Washington Grifters that name seems fitting.

Ann Althouse said...

"It is rather.. odd, that you post a story about the Post and then reference posts and post in the body. I only wish you had included the post-pattern in it to complete that tri-fecta."

I had never heard of the post pattern and am amazed to see that it refers to both a football play and to something Indian. That's freaky.

Anonymous said...

Re: "I would love if commenters would help me out with that problem!"

I'm probably the wrong person to ask. My saving grace is that I assume 95+% of your readers see my name and skip on by.

Meade said...

You have seen betamax3000 and you have seen Meade. But have you ever seen them together in the same room?

And if you have, did you see their names and skip on by?

Meade said...

I have.

Meade said...

I mean... we have.

CWJ said...

David @ 1:20 wrote -

"Next Up: Kansas City Chiefs. They claim their name was chosen as follows:

This original AFL franchise was originally the Dallas Texans but relocated to Kansas City. Owner Lamar Hunt picked Chiefs as a nickname to honor Kansas City mayor Roe “The Chief” Bartle for his efforts in securing the team. Bartle promised to enlarge Kansas City’s Municipal Stadium and guaranteed Hunt three times as many season ticket sales as his club had in Dallas.

If this be true, it's not too clear why there is an arrowhead on the helmet of the team that plays in Arrowhead Stadium."

David,

1. What the heck does this have to do with the original post?
2. If the story was completely true, there'd be no basis to take offence at the name.
3. So all we're left with is your snide double reference to the arrowhead" name and logo as if you've unearthed some secret hypocrisy.
But!
4, Your story is not completely true.
5. There was a competition for the name in which Chiefs won.
6, Yes there was a felicitous coincidence with the Mayor's nickname.
And finally,
7. You might have been the slightest bit curious as to why Bartle received that nickname in the first place before saying that there is no connection to "Arrowhead."

Please do a little work before jumping to conclusions regarding things of which you have little actual knowledge,

Anonymous said...

Re: "And those things trigger other people to plug in their old responses to that, and the thread is instantly stale."

The comment surrounding this sentence seems like it could be a post unto itself.



RLB_IV said...

I’ve seen Meade but I have not seen Betamax3000. If they were in the same room I would not know that they were in the same room because I have never seen Batamax3000. All I can add is that I read Betamax3000 and I read Meade. Betamax I must thank you for the babe and her snake you are a lively soul.

dreams said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPVfFzbRuc4

Anonymous said...

Re: "You have seen betamax3000 and you have seen Meade. But have you ever seen them together in the same room?"

Meade, I thought we swore each other to secrecy about THAT.

Anonymous said...

And Meade: Yes, I STILL like pina coladas, and I STILL like getting caught in the rain. Secrets are secrets for a reason.

rhhardin said...

The Washington Pre's.

Pré is French for meadow.

In honor of the Meadow Indians.

James Thurber reports on French wild west novels of the 30s

"... as I remember it, Billy the Kid, alias Billy the Boy, was the central figure. At any rate, two strangers had turned up in a small Western town and their actions had aroused the suspicions of a group of respectable citizens, who forthwith called on the sheriff to complain about the newcomers. The sheriff listened gravely for a while, got up and buckled on his gun belt, and said, ‘Alors, je vais demander ses cartes d’identité!’ There are few things, in any literature, that have ever given me a greater thrill than coming across that line."

lemondog said...

Ok, I mentioned this once before. Call them The Thundering Assyrians.

Some Suggested

logos

Lord Byron understood.

The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,

And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;

And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea,

When the blue wave rolls nightly on the Galilee.


Will strike terror in the hearts of their opponents. Just don't go past the 1st 2 stanzas.

What, too Semitic?

Dr Weevil said...

There are still some people alive who call themselves Assyrians, though fewer of them than last year, since they're Iraqi Christians and ISIS is killing any it can catch.

How about renaming the Redskins after an extinct ethnic group known for victorious violence? Then no modern community can object.

Two obvious possibilities: 'Washington Visigoths' or 'Washington Ostrogoths'. (Those are West Goths and East Goths, but calling them just plain 'Goths' would give a totally wrong impression.) There are other famous conquering tribes, but the Mongols and Zulus are not extinct, 'Huns' would suggest Germans to many, and 'Vandals' sounds like punks with criminal records, not a conquering tribe of barbarians.

Any of these would be appropriate to (a) football players, who are tough, violent, and inspire fear (we hope) in their opponents, and (b) D.C. politicians and bureaucrats, who leave a trail of misery and devastation wherever they go.

'Washington Dog-Ticks' or 'Washington Bloodsuckers', or 'Washington Parasites' would fit (b) but would be bad for the morale of the players. The same goes for 'Pointy-Headed Bureaucrats' or 'Busybodies'.

Krumhorn said...

I'm probably the wrong person to ask. My saving grace is that I assume 95+% of your readers see my name and skip on by.

Include me among the 5%. I am in awe of the imagination, insight and humor in your posts.

Mancrush guy on the corner says:

Yes, I admit it. I'm an alpha male enthralled with Betamax. Whether it's the creamy thighs or the kicky skirts, I cannot say, but I dive into the river of words and come out clean. Deal with it, bitches.

-Krumhorn

JohnG said...

Sounds like something that should have "Emily" as part of it.

broomhandle said...

Was driving through Tuba City on the Arizona Navajo reservation this summer. Guess what their high school mascot is? Multiple choice for the slow kids.

1. The Leprechauns
2. The Warriors
3. The Lumberjacks

Ethnic self-parody is everywhere. The more sensitive we get the worse it becomes.

cubanbob said...

My theory was, since the Redskins' owner donates to Republicans he has been singled out by the racist Sen. Harry Reid. The Braves skate because they are owned by the famously liberal Time-Warner Corp. On the other hand, Larry and Paul Dolan, owners of the Indians, donated to Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell. Betcha anything they're next up for the pillory."


Indeed they should honor the great Senator from Las Vegas Harry Reid ( M-Mafia) and name them The Wasington Wongs.

Anonymous said...

"I'm probably the wrong person to ask. My saving grace is that I assume 95+% of your readers see my name and skip on by."

I'm also among the 5% who read your posts.

However, that's not the only 5% I'm a member of. I'm part of the 5% who hardly ever understand your posts, which is why I read them. I want so badly to comprehend whatever it is you're trying to say.

But, when I do understand, I laugh hysterically. Which makes the reading effort worth it.

donald said...

Liberty Media, a libertarian slanted company owns the Atlanta Braves.

Just sayin.

boinky said...

I agree with one wag who suggested they change their name to the Washington Rednecks...

Dr Weevil said...

If I owned the Atlanta Braves and were put under pressure to change the 'racist' name, I'd be tempted to offer to make the mascot a skinny Metrosexual hipster and call the team the Atlanta Cowards or Oversensitive Ninnies or Simpering Weenies or something like that.

Another possibility: if the anti-Braves campaign is led by some recognizable individual, make the mascot look like him or her, only even uglier and dumber-looking than in real life.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Krumhorn, Thank you Eric. Although I am not sure how Krumhorn saw my kicky skirt -- I thought I had the blinds down...

Anonymous said...

RE (again): "And those things trigger other people to plug in their old responses to that, and the thread is instantly stale."

As far as I can tell there are only four topics in the human equation: sex, death, religion and sex. Five if you want to count death again.

As a blogger you have a great -- great -- talent for finding ways to revisit these topics from different angles and altitudes, seeing the crop circles and the dog smooch zen.

A -- the? -- problem arises when a response comes consistently from the ground-level: the pattern of the carpet is recognizable before entering the door.

Sometimes the carpet is 70s shag, which has texture but no context. And is often green. Some carpets have arug over them, so you don't really see the carpet, but the rug may have a fascinating Persian design that doesn't change no matter how many times you walk across it in socks.

I'm abridging this so wood paneling is not introduced, nor bean-bag chairs in orange Naugahyde. So my point is: carpet. Is it always thus?
The Althouse response is?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Guy Who Moved to Madison says:

I want my comments to be taken seriously. People are likely to think Althouse plays favorites if I comment under my real name.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Guy Who Moved to Madison says:

My new persona must be just different enough from my old persona-- light and ironic as opposed to terse and meaty.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Guy Who Moved to Madison says:

I thought a long time about my new username. Random word, random number. Something about obsolete technology.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

The Horticulturist says:

This isn't working out. I'm going back to terse and meaty.

rcocean said...

Keep the name - get rid of the logo. Substitute a "fighting Irishman" with a Red face and a bottle of whiskey.

richard mcenroe said...

"Most Indians Say Name of Washington “Redskins” Is Acceptable While 9 Percent Call It Offensive..."

9 PER CENT?

OMG!

IT'S AN OPPRESSED MINORITY OF AN OPPRESSED MINORITY! They should get extra double thick reparations!

Static Ping said...

garage mahal:
Indeed. What Native American would be offended by the term used for collected bloody scalps for money?

It is not as clear cut as you and the author of the article would like. The origins of the word are highly disputed. One explanation is "redskin" is the counterpart to "white skin," a simple non-offensive term to identify who is who. Another explanation is the term was originally used for a particularly troublesome Native American tribe that used red war paint that was extended to Native Americans in general. It is one of those words where there is no agreement which century the word joined the English language and for that matter whether it was a European or native invention.

Now did the word "redskin" obtain a negative connotation over time? Yes, but with the hedge that the word "Indian" also did, possibly even worse than "redskin." There was a time when the natives were not popular in general among the American population.

That said, the team was not called the "Redskins" because it was considered insulting. Sports teams usually pick courageous and/or fearsome nicknames to express their competitiveness and strength. No owner, no matter how much anyone wants to imagine the twirling mustache and the “muhahahas” in private, is going to name his team after something that sucks. Native Americans were considered brave as well as fierce and competent fighters, just the sort of thing a sports team would like to be associated. In this case, the football team was originally the Boston Braves, named after the baseball team (now the Atlanta Braves). This was common in the early days of the NFL when the footballers tried to latch onto the popularity of the more established baseball leagues. (It also helped that both teams played at the baseball team’s Braves Field.) The year after the football team moved to Fenway Park, the home of the Boston Red Sox. Why the name “Redskins” was chosen is unclear. The explanation I like is the team didn’t want to keep the “Braves” name given their relocation, the uniforms already had Native American iconography, changing them would be expensive, and the team was already losing money. The owner picked a synonym for “Braves” and linked it into his new co-tenants the “Red Sox” while simultaneously retaining his old uniforms. It probably helped that the team had several Native Americans on the squad and the head coach claimed to be partially Native American, though the latter is now disputed. After the team moved to Washington, the nickname moved with them.

But, no, the football team was not named after taking scalps. It would neither be inspiring nor in good taste.

Static Ping said...

Dr Weevil said...

Two obvious possibilities: 'Washington Visigoths' or 'Washington Ostrogoths'.


I dunno. The Ostrogoths were somewhat short-lived in world history as the Byzantines essentially obliterated them in the 6th century. The Visigoths have some promise as they sacked Rome and had a significantly longer run, playing an important role in creating what would become Spain.

Related, the Vandals not only have the bad reputation from the word they inspired, but of all the Germanic invaders of note they are the least impressive. When the Byzantines got their act together and came after the Vandals, the barbarians were defeated so easily that it shocked the Romans. It also gave the Romans the confidence to retake Italy, though that proved to be a much harder road.

Anonymous said...


Althouse:
"It would be nice if commenters would address the many points I raised in my… uh… post instead of getting dragged into back-and-forth by Crack, who is basically repeating things he's already said many times."

"I thought I brought something new and interesting to the table here, or I would not have blogged this story at all. "

I thought your tongue was firmly in your cheek with this comment.

When you wrote: "I know, you might say "Posts" reminds you of something that's stuck in one place and never moves, which seems like the opposite of football, where the point is to gain territory. But they are trying to reach the goal posts. So "posts" is a football word. And I would also note that there many points in football when an offensive player offends by simply moving. It's a "false start." So you are sometimes required to be like a post.",
It reminded me of conversations we used to have back in the 60's after smoking dope - interesting and humorous to us but anyone in the room who had not partaken of the smoke would just react with a shake of the head and a groan. Then we would find THAT reaction interesting and humorous. Then we would abandon weed inspired bon mots and search for something to eat.

Unknown said...

"One arm in front of the body with palm out and fingers up, moved in a pushing motion" is the referee's signal for a penalty called "illegal contact."

Bruce Hayden said...

Althouse states - "There's no risk of confusion. It's like Apple records and Apple computers"? I don't think so Ann! Both companies fought a major infringement suit which resulted in Apple Computers paying Apple Records a hefty sum! But the supposition you are making is so lame, "Posts" is not exactly a moving and attractive word describing America's dynamic game! I can just hear all the lame metaphors coming from sports writers after the team lost a game! LOL! Yours - 'dumb as posts' is just the beginning. Stick to law Althouse - marketing/advertising is not your forte!

I think that the problem here is that Ann is using the black letter definition of trademark law, and in reality, it is a bit messier.

One of the problems is cross-over. Take for example hats and other wearable memorabilia. Presumably, over the last couple of decades, the WaPo has probably put its name and logo on such for their employees. Thus, they expanded, somewhat into that area (and, in trademark prosecution, class). Does the football team really want the newspaper to essentially control the mark in those trademark class? And, even if they hadn't already, they likely want the right to do so, and not pay royalties to the NFL.

Furthermore, the standard in trademark law is likelihood of confusion. Already, a lot of football stadiums take the name of some sponsor (e.g. Denver now has Mile High stadium at (I believe) Sports Authority field, whereas it was originally Invesco field, and most likely will change again). And, in a number of sci-fi movies/books, there is an assumption that we will move to the point where sports teams take the name of their primary sponsor. So, it probably wouldn't be outrageous to assume that a football team named the Washington Posts would have some connection with that newspaper (unless you realize that it couldn't ever afford such, being stuck in a 19th century industry).

I also think though that "Posts" for a football team would have a negative connotation - instead of moving fleetly down the field, a "post" just stands there and lets everyone run by. A Redskin is much more awe inspiring than a post any day.

So, my vote is, sure, why not? It would probably demoralize the team enough to make sure that they were never contenders, which is all to the good for the teams that are.

Bruce Hayden said...

Maybe I should think things through a bit more, to keep myself from correcting myself, but...

The idea of cross-over is probably better known as brand extensions. The problem with the paper though having senior rights in the name for the hats and other apparel is that they were probably not put on sale in interstate commerce. They were rather probably just given away. Which might mean that the sports team could be the senior mark holder in that field - but that would likely prevent the paper from giving away apparel with its name on it, despite having done so in the past (ok, there is some grandfathering). Still though, nothing that any soft IP attorney is going to endorse for his clients ("soft" IP, as contrasted to what I do, which is "hard" IP, meaning patents).

hstad said...

Althouse states, "...Check my link, which includes: "The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount … later revealed to be $80,000." No, No, No you need to read all of it! Like they paid $26.5 million in 1991 and in 2007 Apple Computers bought out Apple Corp. for over $500 million so that future lawsuits become non-existent!

Jeff Wilson said...

I'm promoting The Washington Insiders, and if that doesn't capture imaginations, The Washington Crony Capitalists.