Althouse: "The key to Led Zeppelin is that somebody is always playing a counterpoint."

May 11, 2014

"The key to Led Zeppelin is that somebody is always playing a counterpoint."

Said Jimmy Page, accepting an award at the Berklee School of Music (where he will be the commencement speaker today).

Here, you can see him in academic garb:

30 comments:

The Crack Emcee said...: Uncle Ray and I just watched Celebration Day.

The old boy rocked until he looked like he was going to keel over. It was amazing.; 5/11/14, 9:47 AM
Wince said...: That was yesterday. Today in the same Boston University arena Jay Leno is the commencement speaker for Emerson College.

Live Stream.; 5/11/14, 9:53 AM
Jason said...: Berklee definition of "counterpoint:" Two guitarists playing in unison.; 5/11/14, 10:05 AM
Jason said...: What do you call three flutes playing in unison? A: A chord!; 5/11/14, 10:05 AM
Jason said...: How do you get a guitarist to turn his amp down? A: Put a piece of sheet music in front of him!; 5/11/14, 10:06 AM
Ironclad said...: Best comment on the Boston Herald Board was "why don't the current 18-30 year olds in bands today have as many chops as this guy?".

Page is a huge talent, and I still enjoy his music. He took (and acknowledged) old blues music and made it new. Zeppelin had depth and layers between the electric and acoustic songs and the music certainly holds solid today. The fact that he is still selling it shows people still recognize quality.

Auto tune and hip hop have been poison to music today.; 5/11/14, 10:15 AM
paul a'barge said...: Deserved. Sweet man, hella guitar player. Score on both counts.; 5/11/14, 10:41 AM
Patrick said...: Page at Berklee? It Might Get Loud.; 5/11/14, 10:46 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Ironclad,

"Auto tune and hip hop have been poison to music today."

And so it begins - again.

That's why Page rocked with P. Diddy is it? Why Aerosmith rocked with Run DMC? Or why Kanye West's last hit sampled Gary Glitter's "Rock N Roll"?

Why don't you admit you're out of touch and let it go at that?

We invented this music - I think we know how it goes,...; 5/11/14, 10:48 AM
bgates said...: But there are more disturbing stories. Page, for instance, had a relationship with a 14-year-old called Lori Maddox, who relates in Hammer [of the Gods] how Richard Cole kidnapped her on Page's orders and brought her to the Riot House. She claims she fell in love with Page almost immediately. She also tells how she had to be locked up, albeit willingly, most of the time so that word of this illegal relationship statutory rape could not get out.

Great guitarist, though.; 5/11/14, 11:41 AM
Ironclad said...: Auto tune allows marginal vocalists the ability to perform, where without they would pretty well be ignored. I said that because most pop music when I was growing up was pretty trite, but at least the performers had some talent.

Maybe I am out of touch about hip hop. But I also realize that centuries of Western Musical harmony and counterpoint are butchered by that travesty. And don't start on the misogyny, aggressiveness and vulgarity it made "acceptable".

I gave credit to the blues performers of the Delta - I enjoy and respect their music and what they created. I also am well aware that rock and roll had it's origins in black church music - the open, uninhibited performances.

I am so happy that "you invented it". But even though that music has power, it has never touched me as deeply as a fugue by Bach or a great symphony by one of those dead white guys. Different strokes.; 5/11/14, 12:21 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: All you Progressives here need to understand that, if Page were behaving today, as he did in the early 70's, you would seek to shut him down (taking Led Zeppelin with him) for being a sex offender via his underage girlfriend.

Must suck to have to be so hypocritical, every damn day.

Me, I give him a complete pass (short of murder), as I do Chuck Berry, for their extraordinary contributions to the history of music.; 5/11/14, 3:06 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Ironclad,

"Auto tune allows marginal vocalists the ability to perform, where without they would pretty well be ignored. I said that because most pop music when I was growing up was pretty trite, but at least the performers had some talent."

Auto tune is a device, used for all kinds of things, but currently fashionable for the distinctive sound it makes when turned up to 11. According to you, Bob Dylan or Johnny Rotten - or countless others - wouldn't be able to perform without what is essentially a tool for recording artists. Sheer nonsense.

And what you call "talent," I'm pretty sure, went away with discrimination so you keep that dream alive, too.

"Maybe I am out of touch about hip hop. But I also realize that centuries of Western Musical harmony and counterpoint are butchered by that travesty. And don't start on the misogyny, aggressiveness and vulgarity it made 'acceptable'."

Wait - are we discussing music, here, or your desire to cling to certain forms of it? Sorry, Bub, but if the palate is now broader than you can handle,...well, that's YOUR problem. Just as your ignorance of the many forms of Rap that have nothing to do with your obvious fetish for "misogyny, aggressiveness and vulgarity".

How did Rap's misogyny produce the feminist lesbian Queen Latifah?

You don't know - your willed ignorance of Hip-Hop culture is just another racist attempt to marginalize blacks.

How did Rap's aggressiveness produce the ultra-peaceful P.M. Dawn?

You don't know - your willed ignorance of Hip-Hop culture is just another racist attempt to marginalize blacks.

How did Rap's vulgarity produce the lyrical dragon's like Blackalicious?

You don't know - your willed ignorance of Hip-Hop culture is just another racist attempt to marginalize blacks.

You know nothing of blacks, culture, or music.

"I gave credit to the blues performers of the Delta - I enjoy and respect their music and what they created. I also am well aware that rock and roll had it's origins in black church music - the open, uninhibited performances."

You're also willing to be a patronizing prick - niiice.

"I am so happy that 'you invented it'. But even though that music has power, it has never touched me as deeply as a fugue by Bach or a great symphony by one of those dead white guys. Different strokes."

Yeah, racists. I spent last weekend listening to Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, and Duke Ellington - including the work he did with my father. And you're right:

They knew nothing about music or feeling.

And you know nothing of blacks, culture, or music.

You're a museum piece now,….; 5/11/14, 3:15 PM
Ironclad said...: Sigh. I won't even answer that screed.

I am happy you are comfortable in your place. As I am happy in mine. That's what makes us different.

Having a different opinion doesn't make you a racist. But trying to imply that one is a racist for not thinking as you do is patronizing.

Go to the NPR website today - they are on a guilt trip about the music ice cream trucks used to play. You will be in good company there.; 5/11/14, 4:48 PM
southcentralpa said...: Mischevious scroll-wheel on the mouse. Initially thought that was a picture of Hill to accompany the item above! Now that's comedy ...; 5/11/14, 6:35 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: The Crack Emcee said...

How did Rap's misogyny produce the feminist lesbian Queen Latifah?

I hope you don't think that statement presents a challenge to reconcile.
The little word "and", is all it takes. You see, you have presented what is
called a 'false choice' - a favorite of Obama and Progressives in general.

Rap 'music' is both 'aggressive' AND tolerant of the P. M. Dawn's.

How did Rap's aggressiveness produce the ultra-peaceful P.M. Dawn?

I hope you don't think that statement presents a challenge to reconcile. The little word "and",
is all it takes. You see, you have again presented what is called a 'false choice' -
a favorite of Obama and Progressives in general.

Rap 'music' is both replete with 'misogyny ' AND tolerant of Latifah.

How did Rap's vulgarity produce the lyrical dragon's like Blackalicious?

I hope you don't think that statement presents a challenge to reconcile. The little word "and", i
s all it takes. You see, you have presented, for the 3rd time, what is called a 'false choice' -
a favorite of Obama and Progressives in general.

Rap 'music' is both vulgar and very occasionally clever-in-word-invention.

Yeah, racists. I spent last weekend listening to Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, and Duke Ellington - including the work he did with my father. And you're right:

They knew nothing about music or feeling.

I hope you don't think that statement presents a challenge to reconcile. You see, you have presented what is called a 'straw man' - another favorite of Obama and Progressives in general.
You tried to imply that criticism of Rap is criticism if any Black musician whatsoever, including the
jazz/swing greats. That's not allowed by the rules of logic and debate, which you are either unaware of,
or are willfully breaking in order to 'win' by cheating.; 5/11/14, 6:37 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Ironclad,

"Sigh. I won't even answer that screed."

Wow - From ironclad statements like "centuries of Western Musical harmony and counterpoint are butchered by that travesty" (like Jazz hadn't already been there) to now you got nothin'?

What a cop-out.

"I am happy you are comfortable in your place. As I am happy in mine. That's what makes us different."

You're delusional now. Another cop-out.

"Having a different opinion doesn't make you a racist. But trying to imply that one is a racist for not thinking as you do is patronizing."

You didn't state an opinion - you made a definitive statement - and then followed it by explaining "rock and roll had it's origins in black church music - the open, uninhibited performances" as though it was I who needs an education in the form. Patronizing? Racist? You don't know the half of it.

"Go to the NPR website today - they are on a guilt trip about the music ice cream trucks used to play. You will be in good company there."

Let me guess, it "was pretty trite, but at least the performers had some talent."

Like you've ever shown any,...; 5/11/14, 7:13 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: SomeoneHasToSayIt,

"I hope you don't think that statement presents a challenge to reconcile.
The little word "and", is all it takes. You see, you have presented what is
called a 'false choice' - a favorite of Obama and Progressives in general."

OH bullshit. There is nothing in Rap that isn't in Rock, but the Ironclad's of the world isolate Rap to marginalize blacks, like whites are somehow the arbiters of our creations. HIS is the false choice - Rap has to be awful to justify, both, his avoidance and any moral claims or racial resentments he has. If it isn't, he's another typical racist liar. Rap's been around for what? 40 years now? And now dominates the world - which hasn't fallen apart as predicted.

I think he loses that argument.

"You tried to imply that criticism of Rap is criticism if any Black musician whatsoever, including the
jazz/swing greats. That's not allowed by the rules of logic and debate, which you are either unaware of,
or are willfully breaking in order to 'win' by cheating."

And you're trying to act like I'm not my father's son. Or that blacks aren't Americans with a history - that Jazz bred Be-Bop which bred Hip-Hop - without white input or any desire for it.

Who do you think you are?

I'm breaking the rules?

You're not even on the playing field,...; 5/11/14, 7:24 PM
jr565 said...: Crack Emcee wrote:

That's why Page rocked with P. Diddy is it? Why Aerosmith rocked with Run DMC? Or why Kanye West's last hit sampled Gary Glitter's "Rock N Roll"?

Why don't you admit you're out of touch and let it go at that?

We invented this music - I think we know how it goes,...

I'll give full props to those the originators. But the modern crop of R&B stars S U C K! Not one of them can sing even remotely as well as, say Sam Cooke, or Otis Redding, even though they try. And all that sampling is sampling of already great songs?
Whoulda thought that Kashmir would work great as a rap song? Well it worked great as a non rap song because that guitar rff is monstrous. So why wouldn't it be great if you just played the same riff?
Not to say that modern rockers are all that much better.; 5/11/14, 7:47 PM
Dr Weevil said...: Disliking a particular genre of music is racist? No, it's not. Here's how to tell a musical racist:

If someone:

- loves all country music, except for Charlie Pride,
- hates rap, except for Vanilla Ice,
- loves all classical music of all eras (I mean Renaissance, Baroque, Romantic, and twelve-tone, too), except for the works of William Grant Still and Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges,
- hates most jazz, but loves Benny Goodman, Art Pepper, and all the other white jazzmen,
and so on - you can all provide your own examples - he's a white racist.

If his opinions are exactly the opposite, he's a black racist.

If there are whole genres he likes, and others he dislikes, so what? There are dozens of genres and hundreds of subgenres to choose from. I've never met anyone whose taste in genres, subgenres, and individual artists mapped onto race precisely, as in the hypothetical case given above. Have you?; 5/11/14, 8:11 PM
chickelit said...: The one thing Jimmy Page never did (and he did a lot) was tell the world (especially in words) what we should like. His music spoke for itself.; 5/11/14, 8:47 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Look, Ironclad, you're not the first to run this it's-not-music line, but your dislike invalidates nothing. All it does is expose you.

I can't think of a kind of music I don't like. The very idea is a foreign (and rather disgusting) concept because - knock on the head - music is made by human beings. And especially in Hip-Hop culture, as I tried to show with my earlier examples, we come in waaay more flavors than you're giving us credit for.

Instead of telling me what your limited view thinks my culture provides, why don't you ask if I know something with the elements you'd like? People ARE out there creating. You talk about a "fugue by Bach or a great symphony by one of those dead white guys" like they're the epitome of Western culture when - and this may come as a shock to you, so hold on - IT HASN'T STOPPED YET.

Here's what's playing at my house right now. It's very Hip-Hop. What do you know about it, man?

Sincerely, you fool yourself.; 5/11/14, 9:01 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: jr565,

"And all that sampling is sampling of already great songs?"

White guys are great,...; 5/11/14, 9:07 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: The Crack Emcee said...

And you're trying to act like I'm not my father's son.

Let me clue you in, cousin.

Whatever your father achieved, that's HIS achievement, not yours. You had nothing to do with it.

You don't even get to name drop.; 5/11/14, 9:58 PM
chickelit said...: The Crack Emcee said...
Uncle Ray and I just watched Celebration Day.

re: Led Zeppelin III, you might like Gallows Pole which is about a lynching.; 5/12/14, 12:01 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: SomeoneHasToSayIt,

"Whatever your father achieved, that's HIS achievement, not yours. You had nothing to do with it."

Yeah, like you guys ever give me credit for my achievements,...; 5/12/14, 8:56 AM
Jason said...: Holy Crap. I just went through an entire thread agreeing with Crack!; 5/12/14, 9:36 AM
Strelnikov said...: I thought that was Page's grandmother.; 5/12/14, 9:43 AM
jr565 said...: Crack wrote:
"And all that sampling is sampling of already great songs?"

Well you mentioned Diddy. Was he at all artful with his sample, or was it just the sample outright of another song which was beloved because it had a great riff.
He did it again with EveryBreath You Take.
Not all rappers are this inarftul with their sampling by the way.; 5/12/14, 12:00 PM
jr565 said...: Crack Emcee wrote:
Instead of telling me what your limited view thinks my culture provides, why don't you ask if I know something with the elements you'd like? People ARE out there creating. You talk about a "fugue by Bach or a great symphony by one of those dead white guys" like they're the epitome of Western culture when - and this may come as a shock to you, so hold on - IT HASN'T STOPPED YET.

All music preference is subjective. There may be nuamce and variety in the punk movement as well and it may not all sound like Sid Vicious doing my Way, but if you don't like the music you don't like the music.; 5/12/14, 12:02 PM