A senior administration official said today that after a surge in sign-ups on enrollment deadline day, Obamacare is on track to hit the White House's original target of 7 million people signing up, CNN's Jim Acosta reports.So... an unnamed spokesperson says there was "a surge" and that sign-ups are "on track," and that there was a large number of visits to the website and calls to the center. CNN takes dictation and conveys a message that's intended to be read — if readers don't look too hard — as a claim that the original 7 million target was hit. But there are no "final numbers" yet.
More than 4.8 million visits were made to HealthCare.gov and 2 million calls were made to the call center Monday, raising optimism that the goal would be met, the official said.
The administration is awaiting final numbers from the federal and state exchanges, the official said.
No final numbers?! There are no numbers on the sign-ups, only numbers on the traffic to the website and the call center. Do we even have a rough guess of the relationship between the number of visits and calls to the number of sign-ups? Is it 99%? 50%? 10%? We're given no idea! And the target of 7 million... 7 million what? Wasn't it coverage for 7 million of the previously uninsured, who were the point of all this health-insurance upheaval? Many people lost insurance they had, and if these previously insured folk had to go to the website/call center to replace their insurance, they shouldn't count toward meeting the 7 million.
I'm trying to find out exactly what the original 7 million goal was, so I don't have to rely on my memory, but when I try to Google, I'm hit with a barrage of articles like "Obamacare Set To Reach 7 Million Sign-Ups On Deadline Day: Sources" (HuffPo) and — for faux balance — "ObamaCare sign-ups reportedly on track to hit 7 million – but will they pay?" (Fox).
Everyone can remember "7 million," but 7 million what? No one remembers, and all the news sites report the White House PR that goes as far as it can to create the impression that the target is hit.
If you do a Google image search on "7 Million," this is the first image that shows up, and it's about as useful as the unnamed-official-source-quoting news outlets:
(Image explained here.) Just one lady, running for shelter... the nearest shelter... it's a bowling alley, but it's shelter... get inside...
Oh, no!!! He's everywhere! He's trying to make it look good, but it's not working out very well.
Posts
132 comments:
This might help, though the table doesn't include specifications. http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45159
Most major news networks read copy handed to them by this White House. No questions asked.
The White House would never lie or stretch the truth, so why should reputable new agencies question any of it? Why bother with investigation or journalistic curiosity? Please, come worship the glory of the democrat party and their pure intentions.
It's O'Care. Whatever they tell you won't be the truth. End of story.
Con man continues.
It's hardly a secret that if you're a White House reporter and you want continued access then you don't challenge the administration.
In any case, no matter how good or bad the reporting, doesn't most of the public just hear "7 million signups, blah-blah, Obamacare on target, blah blah blah, ?
To TV, numbers are numbers, and analysis of what the numbers mean is difficult to pull off.
But blogs are a very different medium, one where analysis of the numbers is expected.
ACA was sold to us with the number 46 Million. 7 million is a goal post with wheels, which will soon need to be moved again.
Red staters starting to warm up to ObamaCare?
At 49 Percent Support, Obamacare Hits a High.
Among groups, this poll, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates, finds that support for Obamacare compared with last November has gained among young adults, nonwhites, lower-income adults, those who lack a college degree – and, in a surprising result, political conservatives. While just 36 percent of conservatives back the law, that’s up from a mere 17 percent in the fall.
I think the original was that they needed a mnimum of 7 million signed up by the end of March in order to break even, and I think it was supposed to be new customers [previously uninsured].
Remember "jobs saved and created?"
The math is going to be similarly transparent and honest with O'Care.
I visited the website several times to point and laugh at its being down yesterday.
Helping Obama reach his enrollment numbers may explaiin the urgency with which his buddy Deval Patrick has ordered free healthcare for everybody!
Howie Carr, Health care, no need to ‘pay any money’!
How Deval Patrick is it?
Tens of thousands of people were paying for their own health insurance, but it’s suddenly canceled. They try to sign up for new Obamacare policies, but Deval’s website is a Third World nightmare that doesn’t work.
The solution? Send out 84,000 letters telling the former policyholders that they will now have free health insurance until Deval finds somebody competent (that is, outside his administration) who can set up a functioning website.
“You do not need to take any action or pay any money to get this temporary coverage.”
Free coverage!
Well, OK, not exactly free. You and I will now be picking up the tab for people who used to pay their own way.
Deval has performed yet another miracle. He’s transformed 84,000 people from responsible citizens into freeloaders, although of course it’s not their fault that Deval presides over the most incompetent administration in state history...
I got this Health Connector letter from a woman I know who works in a health clinic in western Mass.
“I’ve had about a dozen patients come into my clients’ offices this last week with this letter. They all had REGULAR health insurance last year. But they had to reapply and, thanks to Deval, the website doesn’t work. MASS HEALTH. They aren’t paying anything for this. OMG save me please.”
I wish I could, but I think this was the plan all along. It doesn’t seem like a plot — after all, is anyone surprised when Deval and his buddy Barack prove incapable of performing even the simplest tasks, like setting up a website? “We cannot determine eligibility without this technology working,” the letter says.
Of course, the new website doesn’t work because Deval et al. never bothered to test it out before it went online. That would have required … a work ethic, not to mention a sense of responsibility, both of which are in very short supply these days in the Corner Office.
“We are working hard to process your application,” the letter says. “You will be covered through these temporary health insurance benefits until that process is complete.”
In other words, forever, or at least until Deval and his clown posse are finally kicked down the State House steps next January.
Yep, the plans are SO popular that lots of people waited until the last day that they legally could wait before buying.
In a couple of weeks when there are lines at the post office to send in returns, Garage will point to those lines as a sign of the increasing popularity of income taxes.
of COURSE they are lying! Everyone knows that the books are cooked. A Senator said it, so it must be true!
And that's all that has to be said - "THE BOOKS ARE COOKED!" Just keep repeating that phrase over and over and nothing else is needed to be said. (Well, except for "Benghazi!" We still have to keep repeating that too, gone too far with it to stop now.)
Just keep chanting "the books are cooked, the books are cooked, the books are cooked" and nothing will stop Scott Walker from becoming our next President.
CNN: Credulous News Network.
Wasn't the 7 million by 12/31?
Fun with numbers!
Great, Professor. Now I have the Rolling Stones "Gimme Shelter" running in my head, while picturing b&w images of the President bowling. Thanks a lot!
You have to ask yourself, also — why is CNN so invested in the number?
The WH and Dems will do anything to confuse maleducated voters. Successfully.
"garage mahal said...
Red staters starting to warm up to ObamaCare?"
You need to tell the Dems up for election, because they are running from Obama and ObamaCare like it has the clap.
They can't run fast enough however. In November voters will be the hunter, ObamaCare the spiked club, and the Democrats the baby seals.
What the ACA needs is a nice slow-bleed strategy. Where is dead John Murtha when we need him? Oh that's right that dead bastard is rotting with Lucifer.
If 46 million were uninsured and the high cost of healthcare was a key reason, then the sole measures of success for this program would be if it reduced the number of uninsured to a negligible amount and reduced the cost of health care by the advertised $2500 for a family of for (2008) dollars.
It seems to have failed on these.
The supporters also added the keep your doctor and keep your plan.
It failed on these, too.
It seems pretty clear that this is not a good direction to be heading and a very different course needs to be taken. Staying stuck on stupid isn't a good idea.
It's sad that the Weblog community is so saturated with useless commentary and so devoid of actual information.
A person facing the choice of whether or not to buy into Obamacare, besides having an idea of his own level of risk tolerance, needs to have information regarding what's called the "actuarially fair value" or the "expected value" of his Obamacare premium dollar.
You will have a hard time googling to find this information, and in the end you might need some advanced math skills to understand the results.
What's needed, then, is for someone to show by means of simple graphs and tables the kind of screw-job the young single male will get from Obamacare, for example.
The gummint and the insurance companies are doing their level best to hide this information, of course, because to release it would be to launch the Death Spiral.
Just more pro-ACA spin. But even if there were 7 million bona fide signups--that is, paying customers--the figures that matter won't be apparent for a few years. That's when we'll know whether enough low-cost customers are on the exchanges to make up for the high-cost customers, and whether the insurers (a) remain profitable; (b) go out of business; or (c) have to raise premiums a great deal. In the event of (b) or (c), the next question is whether the government will try and bail them out to prevent customers dropping off the exchanges.
I don't see how this scheme can work in the long run, but we'll see just how exactly it falls apart.
In November voters will be the hunter, ObamaCare the spiked club, and the Democrats the baby seals.
More like heckling from the sideline. Impressive. As they say in Vegas, good luck with that Ace.
Let us assume 7 million is accurate. Notice the news media omit any mention of the people who lost their health insurance. (That number is in the millions.)
They also omit where the numbers reside.
Behind the Math.
"...Assume all the numbers are correct, or at least close to correct. By far the largest part of Obamacare's health coverage expansion has come from a) expanding Medicaid, and b) allowing young people to stay on their parents' coverage. The part where Democrats essentially blew up the health care markets, imposed the individual mandate, and caused premiums to rise and deductibles to skyrocket? That hasn't been such a success. If the Times number are correct, all of that -- placing new burdens of higher costs and narrower choices on millions of Americans, in addition to setting the stage for coming changes in employer-based coverage -- has resulted in two million of the previously uninsured gaining coverage."
Why would Mark Udall(D-CO) lie?
If democrats are sitting pretty, why bully the truth?
What's needed, then, is for someone to show by means of simple graphs and tables the kind of screw-job the young single male will get from Obamacare, for example.
You presume that the young single male "knuckleheads" are thinking with the big head!
Final Four!
The principle of legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice--that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can't treat one group differently from another. (from Gladwell's David and Goliath)
ACA, or Obamacare violates all of those daily and does it with an "in your face" bravado that boggles the mind. If having our freedom usurped in this way doesn't wake up the electorate from their stupor, nothing will and heaven help us all.
Dems need to raise money this election cycle. The White House puts out some useless guesstimates and CNN puts it out with high dudgeon.
Get back to us when you know 1. The number of people with active policies in the individual market (both those getting policies through the exchanges and those getting through the non-exchange individual markets). 2. The number of new people enrolled in Medicaid.
Remember when the White House said the first day Obamacare was so popular it was making the web servers crash? And then a few days later Obama invited people to the Rose Garden for a speech, and he said those people had been helped by Obamacare (and they hadn't...yet)?
So why would news outlets be skeptical of this claim?
Studies indicate only 1/3 of the Obhamacare signups were previously uninsured, so roughly 2 million of the 46 million uninsured. So we forced people to change doctors, limited their choices, greatly increased the costs, greatly increased the deductibles, and put taxpayers on the hook for massive budget overruns all to alleviate roughly 5% of the problem as defined by Obamacare supporters.
This is what you get with the left. They don't care how much it costs, they don't care how disruptive it is. They don't even care how little their plan accomplishes. They only care that they won.
Daily, blatant effort to brainwash us by the new and improved America's Pravda aka the mainstream media.
Wasn't it coverage for 7 million of the previously uninsured, who were the point of all this health-insurance upheaval?
Democrats retconned the justification for the ACA, remember? (Which only makes sense: we had to pass the bill to find out what's in it.) Turns out the real problem was millions of people who had affordable insurance, and needed to be kicked off their plans so they would stop free riding on the system.
Really.
Marshal mentioned it. What about the original number of 42 million or so that were uninsured before all this mess started. That was what it was supposed to be about, but all you hear now is 6 or 7 million is the success point. Talk about goal post moving.
Mazel Tov! The number of sign-ups beat the number of cancellations by one! It's Harvey Finklestein Eden Gardens Nevada who now has free maternity care! The slogan of this adminstration should be, "you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs!"
Obamacare is just another word for the things we do together.
The commissars of the collective farms reported bounteous harvests that exceeded quotas by over 200%. Who are you going to believe? Someone who has committed his life to social justice or some greedy kulak who's hiding the bounteous harvest............Just as a matter of curiousity, can anyone recall a liberal looking upon a social welfare program and saying that this isn't working. I remember them blowing up large housing projects, but the concept of government sponsored urban renewal remains intact.
I thought there was 46 million uninsured?
This administration has proven itself untrustworthy over and over and over again. They can say whatever they want, claim whatever they want, and I will just assume they're lying until proven otherwise. What's mystifying to me is why so many people apparently still take them at their word.
Simply require Obama to abide by the law completely and it's numbers crash thru the floor.
Note to Bill Harshaw: Some readers actually do follow the link you posted and appreciate the info.
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45159#table
Shows CBO projections (not "administration" targets).
Differentiates clearly between increase in insurance coverage through exchanges and increase in Medicaid enrollment.
The May 2013 projection was 7 million non-elderly through exchanges. The Feb 14 projection was 6 million non-elderly through exchanges.
The latest projection estimates that 13 million will get health insurance in 2014 who didn't have it (out of 40-45 million we heard about in the campaign). By 2024, it is projected that 25 million fewer people will be uninsured. Net annual costs to government run about $160 billion, or about $6400 per person insured.
garage mahal: "Red staters starting to warm up to ObamaCare?"
LOL!!
Here is the actual question asked by ABC News in it's fake poll designed to create the talking points that robots like garage will simply parrot:
"Overall, do you support or oppose the federal law making changes to the health care system?"
"..the federal law making changes to the health care system?"
Which changes?
Obamacare?
The question sure the hell didn't ask that, did it garage?
Too funny.
And this is the question they used to get the numbers to 49/48!!
That's what it takes.
But the garages know that their job is not to think, it's just to repeat.
Keep squawking garage.
Obamacare is soooo popular they dare not mention it in their polling questions!
AA: "Wasn't it coverage for 7 million of the previously uninsured, who were the point of all this health-insurance upheaval?"
No.
Do not be obtuse.d
The point of the health-insurance upheaval were the following:
1) Increase the power of the Fed over individuals and in so doing, fundamentally alter the relationship between individuals and their gov't
2) Create new classes of dependents on the Federal gov't
3) Payoffs to leftist interest groups and organizations
3a) Including more "free stuff" to their intended 30 million newly minted "citizens" who will arrived here illegally.
4) Provide the gov't and leftwing activists access to ALL (not some, ALL) of your most private information (see the CA enrollees who received pre-marked Democrat voter registration cards, including some life-long republicans)
There are other reasons, but this is the real point of obamacare, the legislation that dare not say it's name in polling questions.
Regardless of the actual number, which we may never know, whatever "number" is reached it will be declared a major victory for Obama and the Dems.
Not a good name for a band, buy the way.
Is anyone else tired of being lied to? (Please raise your hands)
The lies themselves are meaningless because they are part of the long-term strategy of control: Create apathy among the opposition by exhausting them with a sea of lies. No one opposing them ever gets a fair hearing, no competing plan is ever really available for consideration because of the 'white noise' put out by the administration and the media (I know, I repeat myself) that consumes every available second of the public news cycle.
Its clever, and effective.
IF we had an opposition party in this country there would be a chance to turn some of this around. The current GOP just wants to be in charge of Leviathan, even if that means squatting on the coals being king of the ruins.
Strelnikov said...
Regardless of the actual number, which we may never know, whatever "number" is reached it will be declared a major victory for Obama and the Dems
That was the intent of this specific poll.
The major media working hand-in-glove with the White House (and in this particular case ABC News) created this hilarious poll in order to obtain precisely the answer they wanted on this milestone date.
They needed a positive story, there isn't one, so they essentially made one up.
I do believe it will have the effect they desire. How many people will actually open up the polling report and identify the questions asked and notice what is glaringly and hilariously absent?
Few, or none.
Stupidity moves forward, powered by the garages of the world acting at the direction of their betters.
If you are a foreign leader who pines for American decline you have got to be loving what the dems are doing.
Maybe Drago can unskew the ABC poll like his great work unskewing the polls from last fall. "B b but if you take out the +5 for Dems Romney is winning!!!"
Drago is correct!
"Overall, do you support or oppose the federal law making changes to the health care system?"
Not to mention the fact that the "law" that was sooooo sacred that it had to go forward, is not much of a law now!
What the Hell is the "federal law" mentioned in the question?
garage, once again, anyone can simply open up the poll and see the question for themselves.
There is no "obamacare" or "ACA" or "Affordable Care Act" included in the question.
In fact, the question is purposed fudged to imply these changes to health care law are intended fixes to obamacare.
That's the point.
All you have to do is read it for yourself.
But then, if you are the kind of person who reads it for yourself, you're probably not a dem.
That's the kind of stuff the remedial math in a backwoods high school doesn't prepare you for, as you have found out.
jacksonjay: "What the Hell is the "federal law" mentioned in the question?"
They don't say and you are not supposed to know.
That's the point.
And even with that level of deception, it's still 49/48 for/against!
Think about that for a minute.
Megan McArdle answers some of Prof. Althouse's questions, and expands on others, here. Her commentary relies on reporting from Phil Klein, Avik Roy, and Bob Laszewski.
+5! 0Bummer isn't included in the question! Nobody knows the new federal health care law is ObamaCare!! +7!!
garage: " Nobody knows the new federal health care law is ObamaCare!!"
I know you only had remedial english in high school, but read the question again (which is asking alot since you weren't even aware of the Hitler-Stalin (Molotov-Ribbentrop) Pact yesterday).
"Overall, do you support or oppose the federal law making changes to the health care system?"
"..making changes.."
Obamacare passed years ago.
The question is speaking in the present tense, implying changes to the Law today.
Which changes, specifically, is the poll question referring to garage?
LOL
Of course I don't expect you to be able to answer.
Come November two questions will determine how many elections go:
Are you paying less or paying more for health care after ACA?
Is you coverage better or worse now after ACA?
Garage better hope every under-26er who stayed on mommy and daddy's health plan to the bitter end bothers to vote, because most mommies and daddies are feeling it in their wallets after ACA, and they are going to vote.
garage: "Nobody knows the new federal health care law is ObamaCare!!"
What are you talking about garage?
There is no such thing as "obamacare"!!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/03/30/sen_angus_king_there_is_no_such_thing_as_obamacare.html
When lunatic dem talking points COLLIDE!!!
And remember garage, that's Senator King talking.
Senator.
Unlike you, some guy in a hovel waiting for more free gov't cheese.
@Drago I mean the advertised point (not the secret agenda, which I am not attempting to discuss). I'm referring to that point (which resembles the WMD point for the war in Iraq, the chosen basis for arguing for the measure) because I'm trying to pin down what the 7 million number means.
Is it true that 7 million meant 7 million sign-ups from previously uninsured people? Or can the 7 million include sign-ups from people who had insurance and lost it?
That's all I'm trying to focus on when I say "the point."
I grant you that there are plenty of real reasons for Obamacare that are not about that point, but I am not trying to explore that in this post.
Mark said...
Come November two questions will determine how many elections go:
Are you paying less or paying more for health care after ACA?
Is you coverage better or worse now after ACA?
Mark, those are the salient questions.
What we see now on the dem/lefty/media side is a recognition that the questions you listed are real, relevant and will have impact.
So the dems are attempting to construct a narrative that implies that yes, some may be harmed financially and medically, but the "weight" of the narrative that everyone else has been helped overwhelmingly will almost seem like it's "worth it".
It's a tough sell, but there are not other weapons in the arsenal at this time.
This is reminiscent (in reverse) of the narrative the dems/media constructed when Republicans controlled gov't that hey, you might be doing well but you and everyone like you is just 1 step away from living on the street!!
This was borne out in polling where majorities reported they as individuals were doing fine but that they were worried about their neighbors not doing well.
That was an easier sell.
The latest projection estimates that 13 million will get health insurance in 2014 who didn't have it (out of 40-45 million we heard about in the campaign). By 2024, it is projected that 25 million fewer people will be uninsured. Net annual costs to government run about $160 billion, or about $6400 per person insured."
@Molly
Assuming this to be true thats a lot of money for the taxpayers and the full freight insurance payers to be sporting. Those subsidized people should be subject to a 200% on the subsidy as a penalty to encourage them to not be freeloaders.
I have to say I think they are just making it up, After all, what about this so-called law hasn't been made up on the fly just so the Democratic party can claim they did something about health care?
I have to say I think they are just making it up, After all, what about this so-called law hasn't been made up on the fly just so the Democratic party can claim they did something about health care?
Scott Pelley told the CBS Evening News audience last night that the fine I would pay if I didn't sign up was $95.
He lied. The fine is $95 OR up to 1% of your income, whichever is higher.
AA: "(not the secret agenda, which I am not attempting to discuss)
What is so secret about it?
It's right there and in front of you.
Now, back to what you believe the real question is.
AA: "Is it true that 7 million meant 7 million sign-ups from previously uninsured people? Or can the 7 million include sign-ups from people who had insurance and lost it?"
The latest estimates are that 75% or even much less of the "signups" referenced are from individuals/families that were thrown off their insurance due to obamacare:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/31/rand-only-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-were-from-the-previously-uninsured/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/08/mckinsey-only-14-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-are-previously-uninsured-enrollees/
Byron York had an interesting breakdown earlier today of how people are operating outside the obamacare framework:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/modest-obamacare-reforms-insured-more-people-than-massive-system-overhaul/article/2546551
Those are Rand and McKinsey studies BTW.
It sure would be nice if we had some kind of organization that would ask tough questions of those in power and hold them to account for their actions. And then they could report back to us what they've found. . . hey, we could call them 'reporters' or something like that. They could even be all skeptical and stuff and not just read whatever the powers that be hand to them!
Wow. Wish we had something like that.
Well, I mean, besides for people who don't support gay marriage.
Is it true that 7 million meant 7 million sign-ups from previously uninsured people? Or can the 7 million include sign-ups from people who had insurance and lost it?
The first question is hard to answer. The White House talking points claim the 7 million sign ups are new. However, this figure includes sign ups for Medicaid and private health insurance. The White House has no talking points that specify how many of the 7 million are going into Medicaid.
The White House knows how many people that had individual health insurance that had it cancelled by the issuers. The issuers had to report these numbers to HHS. Failure to report is against the law, but like most of the "laws" surrounding PPACA they are apparently mere words the Secretary can reinterpret to mean whatever political defintion is necessary.
Now, we have to depend on outside studies because the obama-ites dare not even TRACK on the number of previously uninsured who received insurance under specific obamacare provisions (as opposed to the natural flow of enrollees to Medicare, for instance).
http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/06/obama-administration-not-keeping-track-of-how-many-uninsured-people-are-signing-up-for-obamacare/
snip: "That’s not a data point we are really collecting in any sort of systematic way,” Cohen said when asked how many uninsured people are signing up on the Obamacare exchanges, according to a tweet from National Journal’s Sam Baker"
Correction to my 10:43 comment.
Original: "The latest estimates are that 75% or even much less of the "signups" referenced are from individuals/families that were thrown off their insurance due to obamacare.
Should have read: The latest estimates are that 75% or even much MORE of the "signups" referenced are from individuals/families that were thrown off their insurance due to obamacare
Should have read: The latest estimates are that 75% or even much MORE of the "signups" referenced are from individuals/families that were thrown off their insurance due to obamacare
This seems most plausible to me. Those that had insurance that was unexpectedly or expectedly cancelled would be most interested in obtaining new insurance regardless of the 6 months of massive failures with the Federal and State exchange websites.
If you didn't have insurance before, did you ever really care?
There is no such thing as "obamacare"!!
ObamaCare is our health care system now.
Precisely, Congressman, what do you plan to repeal and/or replace? Preexisting conditions? Lifetime limits? Preventive services?
"But website!" "The signup numbers aren't real!"
ObamaCare is our health care system now.
Obamacare is whatever Zeke and Val say it is, today! Might be different tomorrow! Wait and See!
" so roughly 2 million of the 46 million uninsured."
This is higher than estimates I have seen. First, the previously uninsured will be mostly Medicaid. In other words, free. Taxpayer paid.
Of those previously uninsured who are now paying for Obamacare, I have read less than 1 million. A lot less.
The McKinsey numbers are 14% of enrollees but this still doesn't tell us how many of these went to Medicaid.
Of the 3.3 million people that the White House has touted as Obamacare exchange “sign-ups,” less than 500,000 are actual uninsured people who have actually gained health coverage.
The big question is how many uninsured got "insurance" and not Medicaid ? My estimate is "not many."
The new, mediocre polling figures for The Federal Law Making Changes To The Health Care System are proof that the law is great, even though the old, dismal polling figures weren't proof that the law was bad.
garage: " "The signup numbers aren't real!"
Which signups?
Medicare?
If yes, due to obamacare expansion or not?
Of previously insured?
Of previously uninsured?
correction: Medicaid, not medicare.
Paul Zrimsek said...
The new, mediocre polling figures for The Federal Law Making Changes To The Health Care System are proof that the law is great, even though the old, dismal polling figures weren't proof that the law was bad.
You will be charged under the soon to be enacted "Unapproved use of logic 101" criminal statutes.
Know your place citizen, lest you lose your head.
I think the jump in ObamaCare support from conservatives was because of the way the poll question was worded. "Federal health care law". Conservatives love them federal laws.
"Is it true that 7 million meant 7 million sign-ups from previously uninsured people? Or can the 7 million include sign-ups from people who had insurance and lost it?"
I have no numbers, but if logic were to hold, the 7MM number should have applied only to previously uninsured people. After all, they were the stated reason for the ACA in the first place. Also, if you liked your plan/doctor, then you could keep your plan/doctor.
We now know the above turned out to be false, but at the time goals were being set the administration was still wedded to the lie.
To include those who lost their coverage in the goal would to admit the lie.
That's all I'm trying to focus on when I say "the point.""
With the bullshit pilling up so high and so fast that you need wings to fly over it there is no point. There are no honest numbers so it's all a con. Does anyone think if the government had the data to show ObamaCare was indeed doing what it was sold as the government wouldn't be out front showing the data?
garage: "I think the jump in ObamaCare support from conservatives was because of the way the poll question was worded. "Federal health care law"."
The poll question did not use "Federal health care law".
Perhaps you simply cannot read.
Is that the exact phrase used in talking points that you are copying, or did you, once again, attempt to strike out on your own again without the benefit of supervision?
Always a mistake for you garage.
Actual wording of the poll question: "Overall, do you support or oppose the federal law making changes to the health care system?"
Conservatives and many others (including many dem senators) certainly support "federal law making changes to the health care system".
The Dem senators have even floated a couple of ideas about "..changes to the health care system."
(see garage, that's an actual accurate quote from the poll question).
Ouch.
That's quite a few rakes to the face for you "secret routers"/"sycophant" boy.
Conservatives and many others (including many dem senators) certainly support "federal law making changes to the health care system".
LOL. Keep fucking that chicken Drago.
CWJ: "I have no numbers, but if logic were to hold, the 7MM number should have applied only to previously uninsured people."
Of course it should have applied only to previously uninsured people.
But just as we saw with the dems redefining employment impacts, they need to change the terms of this debate as well.
Remember when obama was going to create millions of new jobs?
Then it became "saved or created" where saved was defined as pretty much whatever you wanted?
Then it became "saved, created or "funded"" with whatever that meant.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/01/farewell-saved-or-created-obama-administration-changes-the-counting-of-stimulus-jobs/
snip: "The memo, first noted by ProPublica, says that those receiving stimulus funds no longer have to say whether a job has been saved or created.
“Instead, recipients will more easily and objectively report on jobs funded with Recovery Act dollars,” Orszag wrote.
In other words, if the project is being funded with stimulus dollars – even if the person worked at that company or organization before and will work the same place afterwards – that’s a stimulus job."
One defining characteristic of the crazy fascistic left is their destruction of language and the clear meaning of words.
More garage-level quality commentary (without the benefit of talking points): "LOL. Keep fucking that chicken Drago."
And here's your link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/03/27/can-obamacare-be-fixed-six-senators-offer-a-plan-with-an-eye-to-the-fall/
Stick with the talking points fatboy.
You get in trouble quickly when you stray.
And what the hell is going on in backwoods Wisconsin that would lead garage to reference copulation with chickens?
That is not a good sign.
One of the main points of Obamacare is to get it as much of it as possible to stick.
Yes, it's a ruined soufflé of bad incentives and slapped together law. Yes, it strengthens the worst of the old delivery system with a new pile of bureaucracy on top. Yes it won't 'bend the cost curve downwards.' Yes it takes the time and labor of the more responsible and hard working and shifts it to what will likely become a more permanent dependent class and their self-nominated protectors.
Yes yes yes to the failed campaign promises, the disastrous rollout, the transparent stream of bs and CYA bureaucratic incompetence steadily rolling out of the White House.
Just get it to stick, by hook or by crook. Blame your political opponents and keep talking up the vague notion of fairness and equality when the details are a mess.
The President's loyalty to poor, black folks built upon a set of community organizing, Left of Center principles is pretty obvious.
Some of it's already sticking.
Many people lost insurance they had, and if these previously insured folk had to go to the website/call center to replace their insurance, they shouldn't count toward meeting the 7 million.
They're counting people who do not pay for policies as the 7 million, so why wouldn't they count them in the manner you suggest they should not?
Hahaha
Althouse, last December.
"Obamacare Is Falling Apart Before Our Eyes."
Writes James C. Capretta in The Weekly Standard.
I said it back in October 2012: "It's a slow-motion topple. We just haven't seen it go down yet."
Precisely, Congressman, what do you plan to repeal and/or replace? Preexisting conditions? Lifetime limits? Preventive services?
The Dems want to "mend" it, not "end" it.
Yet they've produced no plans to fix anything.
Odd.
Breitbart today:
Obamacare Real Enrollment: Just 1.7% of Uninsured Covered
Obamacare, the plan purportedly created to provide health coverage for the uninsured, has enrolled just 1.7% of America’s 48.6 million uninsured.
News of the disastrous numbers comes as nervous Democrats and President Barack Obama, ahead of the November midterm elections, did their best on Monday’s enrollment deadline to put a positive spin on the deeply unpopular Obamacare program. The latest Associated Press poll finds that Obamacare has now hit an all-time low approval rating of just 26 percent.
The White House now claims an Obamacare enrollment figure of six million people. However, according to The New York Times, at least 20% of those never paid their premiums to activate coverage, leaving them uninsured. That drops the number down to 4.8 million.
I don't believe there were really 48 million uninsured (who we needed to help), but ... Alinsky ... let them live up to their sales pitch.
Tank: "I don't believe there were really 48 million uninsured (who we needed to help), but ... Alinsky ... let them live up to their sales pitch."
You can't "Alinsky" the left.
As garage demonstrates daily, they have no shame, are willing to lie moment by moment, and they don't actually have the slightest intention to live up to a single thing they lecture the rest of us about.
Therefore, they are not "Alinsky-able".
Anthony said...
It sure would be nice if we had some kind of organization that would ask tough questions of those in power and hold them to account for their actions. And then they could report back to us what they've found. . . hey, we could call them 'reporters' or something like that. They could even be all skeptical and stuff and not just read whatever the powers that be hand to them!
Wow. Wish we had something like that.
4/1/14, 10:46 AM
You will be able to see something like that as soon as we have a President with an "R" after his name. Once that happens you will see all kinds of hard hitting questions come aflying. They may be crap questions but they will be thrown with vigor and anger.
Remember when Drago famously predicted 100-150 million would lose their policies due to ObamaCare? Good times.
Correction:
"...will be easily over a 100 million people."
My favorite part "There is no hiding from that."
garage: "Remember when Drago famously predicted 100-150 million would lose their policies due to ObamaCare?"
That's the estimate once obama stops delaying all the mandates.
Which you probably don't understand, given you screwed up accurately quoting a 16 word poll question.
I mean, it was only 16 words.
How do you screw that up?
garage: "My favorite part "There is no hiding from that."
That's my favorite part too.
Unless the dems get such cold feet that they change the law again.
Which would be advisable, politically.
garage has clearly run out of talking points.
This should be fun as he continues to venture out on his own without the aide of rhetorical direction.
Hilarity is sure to ensue.
It's amazing to me that Jay Carney can find the time to regurgitate DNC talking points here under the moniker "garage." Always knew Althouse was more important that the MSM let on.
100 million.
garage mahal said...
100 million.
Yes, when obama stops delaying all the mandates.
You are having trouble with this, aren't you?
obama: "I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage — they like their plan and, most importantly, they value their relationship with their doctor. They trust you. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what."
He lied. The fine is $95 OR up to 1% of your income, whichever is higher.
Not to exceed the maximum cost of a bronze plan in your state exchange.
Just FEI.
Yes, when obama stops delaying all the mandates.
When this doesn't prove true you'll be back with another laughable howler like nothing ever happened.
"When this doesn't prove true you'll be back with another laughable howler like nothing ever happened."
It's a Heritage Foundation plot!
@ Garage
My polls better than your poll:
1. Obamacare remains unpopular: Just about every national poll indicates that more Americans disapprove of the law than support the measure. According to the most recent survey, conducted just over a week ago by CBS News, 53% of Americans gave the law a thumbs down, compared to 41% saying they approve of the Affordable Care Act.
Other polls conducted earlier this month had similar results. By a 53% to 43% margin, voters in a George Washington University/Battleground survey oppose the law. By a 46% to 38% margin, Americans questioned in a Kaiser Family Foundation poll said they had an unfavorable view of Obamacare. Fifty-three percent of adults nationwide surveyed in a Pew Research Center poll said they disapproved of the law, with 41% saying they supported it.
And according to a CNN/ORC International survey, 57% of adults nationwide oppose the measure, compared to 39% supporting it.
This lack of support for the law is nothing new. While the numbers have rebounded a bit since last fall's disastrous roll out of healthcare.gov, overall the measure has been unpopular with many Americans dating back to the first debates over the legislation in 2009.
Monday afternoon, a new ABC News/Washington Post poll indicated that 49% of Americans supported the law, with 48% opposed. The uptick in support for the measure since January came from a double digit increase in backing from Democrats.
No matter what is said today about hitting targets for whatever, the reality is that this mess was supposed to provide health insurance for the 40 plus million who were/are uninsured.
Ann's BS meter should be on overload for this announcement.
Drago is absolutely correct in saying that researchers who look at the "enrollment" figures are going to find: many were previously insured; many were previously eligible for Medicaid; many will not pay their premiums; finally many are going to be older and sicker than the current rates allow for.
It continues to astound me that anyone bothers to respond to Garage. To me it seems like masochism of the highest order.
No matter what is said today about hitting targets for whatever, the reality is that this mess was supposed to provide health insurance for the 40 plus million who were/are uninsured
The new concern for the uninsured from conservatives is a major development. Give it some time, the CBO projects by 2017 36 million Americans will be covered through the exchanges or through Medicaid.
It continues to astound me that anyone bothers to respond to Garage
Like you just did?
Anecdotal but on point: A friend of mine was trying to sign up last night. I said "How did it go?"
She doesn't know. She didn't even get the option of paying her premium. Went through the whole process, picked a plan, tried to pay, and then got a notice that the insurance company will notify her with the final premium.
What's the story? They have her age and smoking status. There's not supposed to be any additional medical underwriting. But she didn't even get the option to pay her premium. She wasn't sure if she was covered at all yet. (She's not. Turns out it starts next month, if she pays the premium, but she doesn't even know what that premium is.
So Obamacare won't even LET people pay their premiums to #getcovered yet. THAT"S how they got to 7 million! These numbers are rotten to the core.
garage: "When this doesn't prove true you'll be back with another laughable howler like nothing ever happened."
An obamacare supporter has the nerve to actually post that!
garage is pretending that obama hasn't delayed the mandates that will affect tens of millions of plans!
Even though obama and sebelius have said it!!
Too funny.
LOL
Thanks garage. That was hilarious.
Jason: "She doesn't know. She didn't even get the option of paying her premium. Went through the whole process, picked a plan, tried to pay, and then got a notice that the insurance company will notify her with the final premium."
Garage will be along shortly to explain why he thinks your friend is a liar.
@ Garage
I made an exception today because I wanted to see how you responded to factual information that contradicted you. As I had hypothesized you ignored it, making my experiment a success and not in need of repeating.
garage: "The new concern for the uninsured from conservatives is a major development."
The left loves the uninsured.
That's why they just made MORE of them.
Kind of the like the poor: the left loves them so much they want to make sure there are lots more of them.
In that, the left always succeeds.
We should not discount the possibility that all the successful obamacare enrollees utilized secret routers, and thus, their numbers are not included in the totals.
I made an exception today because I wanted to see how you responded to factual information that contradicted you.
I'm so blessed.
garage: "I'm so blessed."
Objection.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Unless the blessedness relates to girth.
Then, well, yeah.
I believe conservatives have been saying for quite a long time that people who don't want to buy insurance shouldn't have to.
www.unskewobamacare.com
machine said...
www.unskewobamacare.com
How can you unskew something that doesn't exist?
There's no such thing as obamacare, so say the dems:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/03/30/sen_angus_king_there_is_no_such_thing_as_obamacare-comments.html
Thanks for playing.
last I knew, Sebelius was denying that 7 million was ever a target.
RecChief said...
last I knew, Sebelius was denying that 7 million was ever a target
That was LAST week RecChief.
Get with the program.
Things are what they are when the left says they are...until they aren't.
"Thems the rules"
sabotage fail.
garage mahal said...
The new concern for the uninsured from conservatives is a major development. Give it some time, the CBO projects by 2017 36 million Americans will be covered through the exchanges or through Medicaid.
Only a complete moron such as yourself would think that more people enrolled in Medicaid is a good idea.
Anyway, the CBO also projects that in 2024, 31 million people will be uninsured.
Keep clapping.
Idiot.
machine said...
sabotage fail
LOL
Sabotage remains, and will continue to remain, undescribed by the lefties.
It's almost like the left is making it up.
"sabotage".
That's so Soviet-circa-1933 harvest-fail-excuse like.
So machine is in good company, from his/her perspective.
Oh, we can include Venezuela in that too.
Gee, all these leftist-paradise "solutions" being sabotaged!
By "The Man" no doubt.
Funny how garage can accuse someone else of a 'laughable howler.
Let's have some fun with #laughablehowlers:
If you like your plan you can keep your plan
If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor
No one is going to take it away from you
Period.
35 JOBZ!!!! LOL!
#laughablehowlers
#laughablehowlers
"Shovel ready jobs"
#laughablehowlersDEPLOYED
- I guess we could have had "shovel ready jobs"...if it hadn't been for the sabotage!!!
- obama was going to say "German", but instead the teleprompter read "Austrian"...Sabotage!!
- Joe Biden....Sabotage!
- Machine: I had a substantive comment to make but....Sabotage!!
- Crack: I could have been born white but....Sabotage!!
- Garage: I was going to say something but there were no new talking points...Sabotage!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP4keCkYHYU
What is seen, on devices made of plastic and metal and whatnot, isn't the same as what is not seen.
This takes some gettingnused too.
I've been traveling, so I missed out on most of this one. Just a thought:
ACA was passed in 2010. In reality it has never become the law.
Instead, we have Obamacare - which is a version of the ACA with the changes that BO made to it.
I wish we had ACA in effect. It would be interesting to see the result.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+2
Sorry to have taken up your time, which, as I was spinning stopped rhyming naught.
You know my name is Rock.
You know my name is Rock.
You know my name is Rock.
K.
I.
D.
Is the name.
I don't dance.
'sit round.
I read "garage mahal" to intend 36 million Americans "insured" by Medicaid was a good thing.
For me, on this day, that takes the absolute cake. That's Leftism boiled down to its essence. "garage mahal" actually believes there is a magical money tree that will solve all the fiscal issues this country may encounter.
I'm sure Greece's version of the Left believed -- and continue to believe -- the same. As did -- and do -- Iceland's. I'll bet the people of Argentina expect that this time -- and the next time -- will really be different.
To rephrase General Honore, garage mahal "is stuck on stupid".
He's the Terminator of Stupid. He cannot be stopped. He cannot be reasoned with. He will never stop.
This Denver Post article indicates 250k of Colorado's 5.2 million residents lost insurance due to Obama-Insurance.
And the insurance commissioner was "pressured" to change the real numbers to something lower, which to her credit she refused. How many others have bowed to the pressures from DC?
If Colorado is representative of the United States and the population of the US is 60 times that of Colorado, we'd be looking at 15 million cancellations right now.
Isn't that something?
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