I thought we didn't have the right to judge somebody else's morality, and I thought we didn't have a right to comment.... Why does this upset these "progressive" women?...Speaking of questions... what's this Not a cat/It's gotta be a dog?
Feminists. Women who proudly think of themselves as independent, don't need a man for any reason whatsoever, don't need a relationship for any reason whatsoever -- a sperm bank is all you need and a dog -- are the ones who are upset about it. (Not a cat. It's gotta be a dog.) Miley Cyrus, do I think she's being...? (interruption) Oh, do the upset feminazis think she's being subservient to men by doing this? It's [an] interesting question....
Because they're the ones who told us, "Little girls are gonna have sex. You can't stop it. So introduce them to Planned Parenthood, introduce them to condoms, introduce them to cigarettes afterwards on the nightstand, introduce 'em to rooms in your house instead of the backseat of the car." Yeah. Why are they upset about it? It's an interesting question.
But back to the main question: Obviously, our culture is deeply confused about young people and sexuality. It's not just feminists.
UPDATE: Miley toys with the confusion.
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57 comments:
Isn't what they are doing to Cyrus "slut-shaming"? And for that matter how is the media treatment of Mayor Filner different from slut-shaming?
This is why it's gotta be a dog (see item 2.):
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/26/conservative-prof-has-awesome-response-to-guy-who-called-him-the-biggest-embarrassment-to-higher-education-in-america/
But when it's a dog, it's some foo-foo, yippy, little dog. Sheesh. That's not a REAL dog.
Real dogs are big enough to bark, not yip. In fact, the only good thing that you can say about a yippy, little dog is . . . at least it's not a cat.
(That ought to get something started.)
The dog cat thing probably refers to a story yesterday about a conservative professor at one of the North Carolina schools who someone accused of being the biggest embarrassment to eduction in the United States because he supported traditional marriage.
He responded by saying that the accuser apparently hadn't heard about, among others, a feminist professor at another North Carolina school who essentially said that woman could do just fine by developing a relationship with a dog rather than with a man.
If Obama Is America's Putin Then it Makes Sense That Miley is America's 'Pussy Riot'.
Okay here we go again with the assumptions: ARE feminists making a fuss over this? It seems like everyone else is...who are the big time feminists complaining? Not saying they aren't, but female TV talking heads don't really county.
But as a feminist and a woman, I feel bad that Cyrus thinks she has to go that route. To me it shows a bankruptcy of ideas, a desperation. Sure it's her right. I guess. But why would you do that with your freedom?
Please find a single "through line" in feminism in the last 30 years. Zero consistency. Always changing with the liberal political winds and exigencies. Oh! there's a through line!
You didn't expect feminist ideals to be pursued without virtue, did you?
Welcome to the new moralism: Relativistic, vague, chatty and when not using force of law, nagging its way into your life.
In the early 1970s, my Dad told me that in our culture it had come to pass that young women matured sexually much earlier than they had in even the recent past. In addition, they were putting off marriage until later than they had in the past. Consequences would follow. Dad was right.
Naked Bob Dylan Robot Says:
The Ghost of Electricity Howls in the Bones of Her Twerk.
The explanation of dogs, not cats is in the same transcript. He is referring to the post by Prof. Mike Adams about some loony feminist academics. Instapundit linked it, too
Actually I thought she was being was delightfully ironic.
And she didn't grab her crotch any more than the rapper in the red jersey who sang after her. Who's slamming him?
Cyrus isn't being slut shamed. It's her handlers and MTV that are. There is obviously something amiss with his young woman and she seems to be traveling the route of several child stars before her. I hope she survives.
Limbaugh calls a well adjusted law student, Sandra Fluke a slut, and yet takes issue with women's concern for this young woman? What a damn jerk. He seems to be the type to be fine with what her handlers are doing to her.
It's dogs and not cats because there is a negative association with women and cats a la "cat lady".
It's not in our best interest to reduce a human being to the sum of its parts. It's not in our best interest to normalize behaviors which emphasize a primitive nature lacking dignity. We know the common physical and behavioral features between humans and animals, but what is the purpose of emphasizing a correlation?
Was Cyrus's performance part of a PETA campaign? They routinely degrade female activists in the course of their activism.
I figure that feminists don't like Miley Cyrus because she's connected to the world of Country Music.
Does that work as an explanation? Or is there something more subtle going on?
Paglia has weighed in, with the skinny on what's really appalling here (at least in Paglia-world):
the real scandal was how atrocious Cyrus’ performance was in artistic terms. She was clumsy, flat-footed and cringingly unsexy, an effect heightened by her manic grin.
and
The Cyrus fiasco, however, is symptomatic of the still heavy influence of Madonna, who sprang to world fame in the 1980s with sophisticated videos that were suffused with a daring European art-film eroticism and that were arguably among the best art works of the decade. Madonna’s provocations were smolderingly sexy because she had a good Catholic girl’s keen sense of transgression. Subversion requires limits to violate.
People that don't understand the statement, "Have you no shame?" just don't get it...
What's interesting about Miley's performance, I think, is that it's not actually sexy at all. I'm used to seeing flamboyantly sexual women in art. I like that sort of thing.
But I did not enjoy what she did. What made her performance so note-worthy is how she's degrading herself, without actually being sexy. She's not even trying to be sexy. The sexiness is removed, and it's pure degradation.
That tongue thing, for instance. What the hell? It's bizarre because it's not sexually attractive at all.
The vibe I got was that she was mocking human sexuality. What she was doing was degrading herself, but intentionally so. Like she was expressing self-hatred.
It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out this performance is actually feminist commentary about our sexualized society. There was an element of anger there, and mockery, and unhappiness. She's being intentionally ugly, to shock us (or shock somebody).
Angry at daddy, maybe.
Didn't feminist and the religious right agree on the issue of porn?
And worst of all Bobby Riggs threw his match with Billy Jean King....
It's interesting to see how young female stars repackage themselves for adulthood. If they develop into natural beauties, the transition is virtually seamless - but not without its own problems.
Miley Cyrus did not become a beauty, so her behavior above and beyond the norm is to be expected. To hold onto to fame, she's got her work cut out for her.
Now compare Cyrus to someone like Kristen Stewart - who didn't have to move a muscle. Just stand in front of a camera, untalented, flat-affected, but devastatingly beautiful.
Then there's Salina Gomez, teeny-cute, but not quite beautiful, and nearly asexual regarding genuine adult appeal. So if the PR doesn't work - like hooking her up with the totally disinterested Justin Bieber - she may by tempted to go the Miley Cyrus route. But won't because of her innate cultural morals.
It's gotta be a dog because cat ladies are . . . well . . . not New York Times Women Are So Fabulous material.
So is Lady Gaga degrading herself? Where are the feminists on that? How is she that much different than Miley? Maybe it's ok if you have a mask? Or if you were not recently a well known adolescent girl.
We should stop expecting any sort of coherence and consistency from present day feminism. It's adrift.
As for youth sexual confusion, just look at our elite universities, where
1. Girls can fuck who they want when they want because they have a right to fuck if they feel like it. So there.
2. Women should control their own bodies and would if there were a pill or an operation that could cure peer pressure.
3. Thou shall not say anything offensive to anyone especially to girls who want to fuck someone but not you.
4. Girls don't need men but have a right to enjoy men on their own terms when they feel like it but stop and stop quickly when girl changes her mind and says whoa big boy.
5. Sexual assault is a terrible problem just terrible and men are terrible sexual aggressors silly men whoa men I say whoa now stop and do not put this on Facebook, you hear?
I am not a member of the demographic that Ms. Cyrus must appeal to in order to succeed. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I doubt that any of the other commenters here are members of that demographic. I am sure Rush Limbaugh isn't. So she doesn't need to care what we think about her performance.
Does anyone know how her post-Hannah-Montana image is going over with her target audience? Is she selling songs, performances, tickets to shows, etc.? Because if she is selling, then we shouldn't complain about her, we should complain about her audience. Or just close our eyes (which is what I think I will do).
I'm thinking Miley didn't want to be outdone by that other Disney chick who's now playing some deeper, meatier parts.
No no, not Selena Gomez. I'm talking about Cassie Nelson.
Why doesn't everyone leave the young lady alone? If people don't like her performance, fine, but why pretend that a less than ideal performance makes her psychologically defective?
In response to Inga's statement that Sandra Flux was a well adjusted law student but Miley Cyrus needs help, how do you know that? In my world, a woman who acknowledges sex outside of marriage and then asks other people to pay for her birth control is just as immoral, or more so, than someone who dresses and acts provocatively.
"That tongue thing, for instance. What the hell? It's bizarre because it's not sexually attractive at all."
Not only that but it looked like her tongue was coated white as if she had a candida/yeast infection in her mouth. Bitch needs to take some diflucan.
I think Cyrus just did an interpretive dance of Sandra Fluke's Congressional testimony.
What is it with Disney that so many of their girl stars grow up to be skanks?
I will know what to think when the genius comments!
Because Miley's performance last night, and the subsequent ignoring of the racial implications of what she did is just the latest incident in the long line of things that shows me as a black woman, that white feminism does not want me, or care to have me.
How dare the Miley Cyrus conversation not include race?
Saint Croix hit the nail on the head. Miley's performance was to sexuality what minstrel shows were to blacks, what drag queen galas are to women, and what Team America: World Police is to...Matt Daaaaamon.
Sandra Fluke wants to fuck whoever she wants and have others pay for the consequences. There is absolutely nothing well adjusted about being a whore.
I agree with Paglia, Cyrus's performance was mechanical, completely programmed like a robot. Same thing you see with Beyonce and Britney. There is nothing sexy or sensual about any of them.
And by the way, if fluke wants to be a whore, that's cool, just don't make me pay for it.
Laying aside for a moment all the associated cultural excreta so clearly portrayed in such a pornoid performance, the real issue in teen sex comes down to this:
Girls pretend at sex, for which they're not ready, in a pathetic attempt to get what they really want, which is love.
Boys pretend at love, for which they're not ready, in a somewhat comical attempt to get what they really want ...
That's why it's almost always the girl who gets burned, and the entire "girls are sexy and powerful" schtick merely perpetuates the problem.
As the parent of a 15-yo boy, you only have to worry about one dick.
If you have a daughter (as do I) please don't let them access very much of this vomit, and only then to set it out as a really bad example of really sick young women.
I figured it was that it is one thing to be sexual in the privacy of one's own home, and another to do it on stage.
But, wasn't it MTV? Who is, honestly, surprised by this (either the initial act or the follow-ups?)
"And for that matter how is the media treatment of Mayor Filner different from slut-shaming?"
-- That's easy. Sluts don't assault people from a position of power where their target is victimized. Sluts, by definition, are consensual. What happened to Filner is just plain old shaming, and he deserved every bit of it it.
...straw men...so easy to argue with....
"What is it with Disney that so many of their girl stars grow up to be skanks?"
In order to advance their careers beyond the pre-teen demographic, they must clearly and permanently break their attachment to their previous roles (because otherwise they'll be Mouseketeers for life)?
The question, perhaps, is whether a performance like this has become all but obligatory for any young female who wishes to persue a career in pop music. If it is then that, perhaps, would be the feminist complaint.
(And then RIAA doesn't understand why so few are willing to pay for recorded music anymore.)
Who's Miley Cyrus? Any relation to famous one-hit-wonder Billy Ray?
"In order to advance their careers beyond the pre-teen demographic, they must clearly and permanently break their attachment to their previous roles (because otherwise they'll be Mouseketeers for life)?"
Why is that, though? Not picking on you, just asking. Can society not bear to have a female pop star who isn't over-the-top sexy? Adults do other things besides have sex, so why do these girls think there's no other way to show maturity? Maybe the pop genre is so narrow that it doesn't work that way - which is kinda sad.
What I also find interesting is not just the skanky repulsiveness of her performance, but the utter lack of talent. I don't like pop, but I can still appreciate when someone's good at it. Bruno Mars, Beyoncé, Christina Aguilera (serious voice, that girl) - they all have something worth paying attention to. Miley Cyrus? Ack.
All I know today is that Miley is a bigger than Syria. Imagine, Obama is about to launch us into the explosive Mid-East wind, yet the big story is Miley... and her tongue.
???
@Lem, here's another link which explains how Miley Cyrus is racist. For example, she is guilty of "gross cultural appropriation." The black women in her music video are "accessories with low autonomy in terms of imaging," giving "authenticity" to people who want to enjoy the song without feeling uncomfortable.
http://www.vice.com/read/miley-cyrus-needs-to-take-an-african-american-studies-class
My cat recently stuck he butt in the air when I was petting her. Was she twerking me?
Inga mentions Ms. Fluke. My question to Inga is why a reasonably attractive woman can't find a lover that is willing to sport her contraception?
What confusion? Miley Cyrus is the poster child for young women today. She exemplifies what our culture now thinks a young girl should be. The feminists let this happen with their all or nothing view on abortion and their unwillingness to support "family values" at all as long as gays did not have the right to marry. Since sex and sexiness is now expected of women, I can imagine a time when sex is so trivialized that sexual harassment will cease to be a valid concern in the work force. Whether or not Miley Cyrus wants sex is irrelevant, she knows that she is expected to put out if she wants to get ahead. I am glad to hear that at the current march in Washington some black leaders are complaining about the decline in family values--although that probably won't lead to anything anyway since the democratic party does not seem to be able to hear it when a black leader says something like that.
Carol asked: Okay here we go again with the assumptions: ARE feminists making a fuss over this?
Yes. Not all of them, of course - because the term is so vague it applies to contradictory multitudes.
But I've seen lots of self-identified feminists (of the Jezebel or Gender Studies sort) complaining about her.
"Cultural appropriation" is the meaningless, incoherent cant abuse of the day on this topic.
(They started complaining over a month ago, about her related video, on the same grounds.
For a useful summary and counter-attack, see <a href="http://runningthevoodoodown.blogspot.com/2013/07/powers-of-perception.html>here</a>.
I have since added "cultural appropriation" to the list of cant terms that make me automatically assume someone doesn't have a god-damn clue about a topic, despite perhaps being not-a-complete-idiot in other areas.
The heuristic has been remarkably accurate.)
"Limbaugh calls a well adjusted law student, Sandra Fluke a slut..."
Sandra fluke wants the federal government to for Americans to pay for her condoms. If anything, does this really sound like she is well adjusted? On the contrary, she is a pathetic parasite with a huge daddy issues.
Who's Miley Cyrus? Any relation to famous one-hit-wonder Billy Ray?
That was part of the hook in her Disney series "Hannah Montana" - Billy Ray played her father there, as he does in real life. She played a teenaged rock star at night, and a normal middle/high schooler during the day, and her father was her producer. She would put a wig on for the Hannah Montana character, and take it off for when she was in real life There were some references to his one hit, and his connections got some interesting cameos, esp. "Aunt" Dolly (Parton) (Billy Ray had opened for her early in his career).
For awhile, it seemed like they were managing to keep Miley out of trouble by concentrating on family values on their farm down south some where, where Cyrus and his wife were trying to raise their kids outside the glare of publicity. But, that seems to have ended when Miley legally became an adult.
"@Lem, here's another link which explains how Miley Cyrus is racist. For example, she is guilty of "gross cultural appropriation." The black women in her music video are "accessories with low autonomy in terms of imaging," giving "authenticity" to people who want to enjoy the song without feeling uncomfortable."
Brother. What a bunch of jargon signifying absolutely nothing. What is Miley appropriating, the twerk? Blacks want to take credit for that as their cultural contribution?
So, what is wrong with "slut shaming"?
It is easy to see why a lot of feminists were opposed to it - it essentially limited their sexual license. They couldn't have sex with anyone they wanted without repercussions.
But, how many of us would want our daughters looking and acting likely Miley (Lindsay Lohan, et al.) in public? And, how many of us would want our daughters to take a completely liberated view towards sex, and, ultimately, reproduction?
The problem is that "slut shaming" is a form of societal peer pressure, placed on esp. younger women, essentially for the good of society. Much of it came from other women who used it to prevent a race to the bottom, and other women bedding, and maybe ultimately taking, them men (and, esp. their husbands). Younger women, in the prime of their sexuality, have a significant advantage in attracting men, esp. as bed partners. And, sleeping around, esp. when children are conceived as a result, struck at the heart of the traditional marriage, which was, in great part, developed through long experience to provide support for raising children.
Now, we see with Obama's Julia, Sandra Flake, and the mothers of all the illegitimate children we see these days, the natural progression of this - that if sex is going to be without much cost to women, that society is going to have to find a way to pay for those children, which means child support (even when the person paying for such wasn't even the biological father or had any intention of fathering children with the mothers of such) or public support. But, we are seeing the cost of that - with children being raised without fathers taking a big part in their lives, with boys running wild, ending up either dead or in prison, and girls having the next generation of fatherless children. And, yes, this has devastated the Black community the worst, with a 3/4 illegitimacy rate, and a murder rate by its young males many times that of the rest of the country.
So, slut shaming may arguably be seen as providing a societal benefit, of increasing the cost of irresponsible behavior on the part of young women.
Leit Bart,
When is Hootie going to answer for appropriating white culture and putting out boring college rock/pop?
Yah, they're upset because they can't get over the fact that she's not a child anymore. Her antics weren't any worse than what Lady Gaga and countless others have done (talking about transgressive performance), but "omg, is that Hannah Montana?"
What's strange to me is the very unnatural expectation that girls must be desexualized before a certain age, but on a certain birthday, "Hey, feel free to walk around in bra and panties with a sign proclaiming that you like to fuck." Talk about messing with girls' minds.
Just realized that Miley Cyrus' alter ego is now named Hanna…
Idaho.
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