"She felt that could have been me lying down there in the street. She just felt for the poor guy. No man should have to die like that in the street with no-one around him. She came home afterwards and she just sat down and had a cup of coffee. But she doesn't want to talk about it. She did what she did and wants to get on with her life again. Of course she is upset, it was a gory thing for anyone to see. But she just wants to get on with things."
ADDED: We are admiring these women, but implicit in our admiration is the question — let's speak it out loud — Where are the men?
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95 comments:
That is courage. Walking up, unarmed, to a jihadi with a butcher knife who just hacked a man to death, just to ask him "WTF?"
That was a Brit thing. She could not act any better than she was trained to act. But she will courageously take flowers to the funeral.
An American mother would have grabbed a gun and shot the attacker with a high capacity magazine until it was empty.
bleh
Too bad the world of extremist Islamists won't see the women as "angels" but as exemplars of a western world gone soft. The entire event was scripted and the women, though unknowing, effectively played their role. To perfection. One can only hope they'll tell David Cameron to bugger-off if they're invited to tea at 10 Downing Street.
God bless them. But man, that is some purple prose.
"Although other bystanders watched in horror and police waited helplessly for armed officers to arrive, Gemini modestly insisted her and her mother were not heroes and had done what anyone else would do."
My solution would be to run the a$$holes down with my car. Good for the goose, good for the gander...
Now imagine one person with a gun that could have ended this before the butchering had completed. But now, the UK bans all guns. It's a modern utopia.
Oh, I dunno...maybe this is what happens in western society when you emasculate males long enough?
The discussion of why the women acted while the men stood idly by is one that the U.K. needs to have. Such passivity ought to be scorned publicly and selected against naturally.
"Where are the men."
Like their guns and knives, banned.
You women think there are no consequences to the society you've created.
In the UK the men are dhimmi'ed into cowardice. Shocking, I know. Misandry is practically an institutionalized thing in the UK.
In the old days, a gentleman would have appeared and calmly drawn a saber blade from his bumbershoot and skewered the miscreants.
Hell, in the old days, they wouldn't have let such scum in the country.
But everybody in Blighty these days is a PC metrosexual.
You women think there are no consequences to the society you've created.
Another reason these women and the whole of British society are so eager to just "get on with things."
Like a fish needs a bicycle.
If the terrorist was a woman, this lady would be dead, that's why we need men; they make more civilized terrorists.
You realize that UK laws on laws on defense and such lead to absurd results like a home invasion perp is let go with probation but the man who resists is jailed for attempted murder? Stand your ground and castle doctrine for all intents don't exist. In today's Britain, Jack Ryan in Patriot Games would be jailed for murder and various gun offense for defending the Prince from a terrorist attack.
Where are the men? Hiding from the police and the barristers.
Where were the men?
Squashed by the nanny state.
It is more likely that Amanda Donnelly-Martin was too nearsighted to see that the victim had no head. The men, being a bit more observant, noted correctly that the victim lacked a head and therefore no longer needed any comforting.
The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
Women are suckers, and men like to shirk responsibility. So it has always been.
"The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Just like Eve to never take responsibility for her own actions. Always blame the bad boy and call him a snake.
The man just blamed God for giving him that woman.
Like I said before - we are turning into a matriarchal society in a patriarchal world.
This is what happens when we become petite delicate flowers.
The man just blamed God for giving him that woman.
Rightfully so. The consequences were pretty dire, no?
That machete was awfully long, I thought England had a rule on knife lengths?
Let's see if machetes will be banned.
Let's see if machetes will be banned.
Five quid says they already are.
"We are admiring these women, but implicit in our admiration is the question — let's speak it out loud — Where are the men?"
Socialism makes people weak, stupid and dependent.
Especially men.
Oso Negro said...
The discussion of why the women acted while the men stood idly by is one that the U.K. needs to have. Such passivity ought to be scorned publicly and selected against naturally.
Maybe the men realized what was happening and that the soldier was already dead, while the women did not (we know this is true for the first woman).
From this we can conclude she's the smart one.
Richard Fernandez sums it up well here:
"From a certain point of view, the British crowd behaved perfectly and this is the way “they” all want us to behave.
The populace sheltered in place, didn’t do anything rash, talked to the perpetrators as people. They waited for the police to come and the hospital helicopter to take the corpse away.
Some will doubtless get counseling to overcome their shattering experience.
And then they will congratulate themselves on how tough British society is; resilience and all that. The more caring will leave some flowers by a railing and hold a few candle vigils for healing and peace, until these wither and blow away and the news cycle washes up a new object of attention.
The attackers knew they were actors in a drama — as keenly watched in their communities as on the BBC.
And in that other audience they were asking: “How will the locals behave?” We know now. And that other audience may derive an entirely different lesson from this tableau: “See? Only their women act like men. They follow orders.
They are nothing anymore — these Westerners. They are a civilization whose core has been destroyed.”
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/
The man ate the fruit even though he wasn't deceived. Maybe he just wanted to see what happened to her first.
So women have created these awful problems in the West because of their gullibility. What is the men's excuse? Did all parliamentary seats go to women?
I would like to see men quit complaining about feminism, and DO something about it. But that takes hard work. So much easier to say, "See, it was that woman you gave me. She didn't even have the vote 90 years ago, but now she's ruined everything". What were the men doing while guns were outlawed in Britain and self-defense was made criminal? Going right along with it.
Yeah, I'll take Maggie over David Cameron.
100 years ago, the Brits would have either lynched or beaten to death the "two black wogs" on the spot or delivered the "dusky animals" to the gaol for trial and a proper hanging that happened a few weeks after the trial had finished.
Part of "Rule of Law" is to effeminate men...so they watch butchery happening before their eyes helpless, afraid to even throw a stone at the hacking Islamoids for fear of being called racist and bigoted - for "assuming" the dark skinned Muslims must have been in the wrong and "acting like a vigilante" in the absence of police....
Because only cops and lawyers can do what is best in such situations..the rest of the public best watch idly and serve as witnesses.
And of course, part of this narrative the Left has orchestrated is to Celebrate the Empowerment of Women, who are the real heroes who "guarded the body", the Hero who thought as a woman, no knife-wielding African mesomorph would attack a courageous female cub scout leader..like they would any man who challenged them...
The Female empowerment Narrative then followed the bogus Jessica Lynch, fighting off the enemy, worthy of the MOH! narrative. The Hero female cop who shot down Maj Nidal at Ft Hood has she gallantly fell herself. And this incident had several news articles done by Lefties working for the UK rags on how a Hero female cop had saved the day by shooting both Evil Men while her penised inferiors had not acted as quickly and decisively.
1. Lynch was a passenger in a vehicle driven by a panicked fellow femal driver that smacked into another vehicle, knocking the slightly built Army clerk unconscious. She woke up in an Iraqi hospital. Never touched a weapon. The narrative was built by the Pentagon PR Dept with an internal booster faction for "women in combat!!" advocacy. Then jumped on by the female empowerment boosters in the regular media. Rightwing pols then took to the speech podium claiming she was likely raped after running out of bullets while mowing Iraqis down right and left in a heroic death fight that merited the medal of honor.
The farce actually was made into a movie. Replete with "Hero Rescuers" saving her from the docs and nurses at the hospital where she was patched up...though there were some dangerous militia around and PVT Jessica was not 100% safe from them.
2. Ft Hood's Hero Cop...lionized for many weeks..turned out to have been downed by Maj Nidal Hasan before she got a shot off. It was her male parner that put Hasan down, something the media knew within a day but kept quashed so the Hero Female Cop Who Saved the Day narrative could play out.
3. The London Islamoid butcher tale soon had all the media praising the cool-headed female cop that took the shots that downed both Islamoids. That then hit the blogs as gospel truth.
Turns out the female in question was the uniform in the shotgun seat the Islamoid was charging at from ambush. She only had a Taser and could not unholster it. She was saved by a male cop in the back seat that had his submachine gun at the ready and fired a burst to the attackers legs that crumpled him and saved his helpless female colleague.
(the other Islamoid was taken down by a sniper who saw the guy had a pistol in hand)
PS - memo to valiant female cub scout leaders sure that Muslim chivalry would allow a woman to safely confront such animals...the 1st Muzzie targeted a female in uniform as perhaps the easiest ti attack with his knife and butcher's cleaver. Chivalry is situational with Jihadis. They have no problem blowing up women and children and non-combatant males in many circumstances.
Flight 93 etc.
The chickens are starting to come home to roost.
50 years of the boomer ideology.
"Where are the men? Hiding from the police and the barristers."
Just wanted to repeat the answer.
What is an unarmed police officer?
A sitting duck with a big red target painted on its back.
If a mob of men had attacked the murderers, they'd expect be punished far more than the murderers would be. From what I've read about Brit "justice" in the past some years.
"What was the man's excuse?"
Eve was naked.
Nomennovum said..."Eve was naked".
...and said every man who has ever done what a feminist told him to.
Either that, Ethelfled, or she's got a lawsuit or other legal complaint filed against him.
So that's how civilization ends, with a grand cry of: "But I might get sued!"
We prayed about this at Friday rosary this morning.
I am concerned that traditional C-of-E masculine British culture has been so utterly hollowed out that they may start to turn to a Islam because it makes them feel like men again. I've read that the conversion rate is increasing.
As others said above, the men who might have intervened are already in prison for using excessive force against a burglar or mugger.
Regis 1959 said...
Flight 93 etc.
==================
Despite the Bush Narrative, there was nothing particularly heroic about the passengers of Flight 93 or a cancer victim who "fights back" or a rape victim who "fights back".
Its the cornered rat syndrome. Half may fight back maniacally before the fox, cat, or so on takes them down...half will passively await death.
Cancer victims, rapes - same.
Flight 93, nothing to lose - so half the passengers acted like half of cornered rats do. Passengers and crew on the other flights did not fight because they thought the risk of harm to themseves or anyone on the flight they cared about - was greater if they acted vs. remained seated and passive.
The men were writing stories that the victim had been decapitated. Incorrectly, it seems.
That's an uplifting viewpoint, Cedarford.
The men are under arrest for being racist!
Man charged with making 'racist or anti-religious' Facebook comments about British soldier’s death
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330180/Woolwich-attacks-Man-charged-making-racist-anti-religious-Facebook-comments-British-soldier-s-death.html#ixzz2UExobl9H
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
"The impact dislocated his shoulder, but the Navy veteran just popped it back in and dragged his unresponsive wife to safety."
Man charged with making 'racist or anti-religious' Facebook comments about British soldier’s death>
Glad to see the Brits have the stones to arrest someone as a result of this brutal crime, the motivation for which can only be guessed, but never known.
Did anybody stop and think that, given that this was the middle of the afternoon, that most of "the men" (at least those predisposed to intervene) may simply have been at work?
Kristian Holvoet said...
"You realize that UK laws on laws on defense and such lead to absurd results like a home invasion perp is let go with probation but the man who resists is jailed for attempted murder? Stand your ground and castle doctrine for all intents don't exist. In today's Britain, Jack Ryan in Patriot Games would be jailed for murder and various gun offense for defending the Prince from a terrorist attack.
Where are the men? Hiding from the police and the barristers."
Has been true for years that there is no longer a right to defend yourself in the UK but that might be news to Althouse.
The lady scout leader's approach of talking to an insane jihadist murderer was an approach with an extremely low probability of succeeding. In the USA, most likely no one would talk to the murderer but it would not be surprising to see a citizen (most likely a male) shoot, bludgeon, beat, or run over the perp with a car.
I don't know where the men are. Are they at work? Is this an area where men congregate? I haven't seen the video and can't play it right now. Are there men standing around? Are they holding back while the women distract and detain the terrorists? If the terrorists had tried to leave or tried to kill again would they have followed and directed the cops to the terrorists?
The obvious and easy response is that Western Man has been disarmed and defanged by oppressive Western guilt-tripping nanny state and the dumb Western Women are wandering around in a naïve gullible state comforting terrorists and the cops, as usual, are late to the scene, OMG apocalypse now please if it's not too much trouble.
But how would you re-write the script if you actually liked Western Society, recognized it's benefits even as you can clearly see it's many problems? If the concern is how we are viewed by the Islamic population, at home and abroad, spin it that the bystanders approached the terrorists and distracted them until the cops showed up and shot the terrorists. Cattle prod the cops for being late but turning on each other is no good answer.
Ever watch the BBC police drama ’Luther'? There's an episode where the murderer, an evil-hipster type, holds a gas station full of customers hostage, destroys their cars, and murders the one man who confronted him. All while "armed" with a baseball bat and a plastic squirt pistol filled with mild acid.
It was supposed to be suspenseful, but at the time I thought it was laughably stupid. Able bodied men cringing in terror from a scrawny dude with an arsenal from a toy store? Little did I know.
" Where are the men?"
Are you asking "....why did no (un armed) man disarm 2 large ,crazy homicidal, armed to the teeth Muslims, and make a citizens arrest?"
Gee, that is a tough question.
That's a scene that brings chills to me.
If it is illegal to defend yourself from a burglar in your own home in England, it must surely be illegal to attack a stranger on the street, just because he is hacking someone's head off with a machete.
What men in Britain need to do is show up, do what needs to be done, and disappear. As we say in rural America, shoot, shovel, and shut up.
Don't wait around for the police. Make them find you just like the crooks do.
A lot of ignorance on here. Men didn't go to the body because the gun and knife wielding attackers wouldn't let them
'Joe Tallant, 20, a local resident who witnessed the attack described how a friend's mother comforted the dying victim. He claimed that the attackers told her 'no man is coming near this body' as they asked onlookers to take photographs of them.'
As Colonel Jeff Cooper said, years ago, "To such depths have the sons of Alfred fallen."
"A lot of ignorance on here. Men didn't go to the body because the gun and knife wielding attackers wouldn't let them."
Real men, and I say that would include the vast majority of American men, would have attacked those murderous bastards in mass. Gun or not. Hell, many American women would have done it, too. British men, it seems leave it to their women do what they are not willing to do.
Perhaps the men given the circumstances and the context of Brittain today figured its not a good idea to bring a fist to a machete fight. An on the spot lynching would have sent a powerful message to the jihadi audience. All else being the same Brittain would have been better off importing Mexicans instead of Muslims.
See, this is what happens to countries that don't play baseball. My rotator cuff is a mess, but I'd still have been able to bean them with 50MPH ball-sized rocks at a safe distance. Machetes? Bah. In 'Merica we throw brushback pitches all the time to guys much bigger who have 34" aluminum clubs in their hands.
Why didn't the crowd, male or female, do something like this? That's the real question to answer. If the men have all been gelded, then where were the Valkyries? I thought modern women were supposed to be tough and hard-charging.
What we are seeing here is the reason for the American Revolt some 250 years ago. It is a matter of perspective, Americans see themselves as Citizens, while the British see themselves as Subjects. Being a Subjects means you have only those "RIGHTS," the Government is willing to honor.
John C said... "As Colonel Jeff Cooper said, years ago, "To such depths have the sons of Alfred fallen.""
Indeed.
"A lot of ignorance on here. Men didn't go to the body because the gun and knife wielding attackers wouldn't let them."
Wouldn't let them? Since when do we simply let the bad guys make that decision for us?
Out in the open, on a street? If nothing else, you run the cowardly curs down with your car. And then leave.
And any British man or woman who does not carry a knife with them from this day forward is a fool.
"Yesterday Gemini was back searching for work at a local job fair"
OK someone hire this woman. She shows potential.
Let's see... Brit cops standing by helplessly, waiting for a cop WITH A GUN to show up... But when two guys make non-PC comments about muslims on Facebook, they by DEITY!! show up to haul them away.
That country is screwed.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/05/the-inevitable-decline-of-great-britain-cont.php
Arrested for TWEETING.
Imagine if they'd actually tried to stop the guy. I shudder to think of the consequences.
This is England, a country with a core of strength. American woman fights off London street rapists with a Swiss Army knife. SHE gets arrested for using the knife in self-defense. Any knife carried on your person is covered by the vague and ambiguous "Offensive Knife Act (an "assault weapon"?) so she is charged and brought to Court. Lucky bargain: charges dropped but she is deported ans banned for life from the UK.
Remember Farmer Martin? Anyone who shows any spine and takes on the job of a ABSENT Bobbie is guaranteed harassment if not jail time.
The Elite of E
england are so afraid of their own that they've made self-defense a myth and have the public "cowed" just as they like.
A nation is what it wants to be. In the case of England, Londonistan. Violent Entremism is accepted but only so long as it is done by those scary Muslims.
Everyone else must be a good child.
So instead of arming its soldiers when on the street (as the British Army does in Muslim nations), the MOD orders them to remove their uniforms and slink about in civies. I hope their haircuts aren't a dead giveaway.
TYPO IN LAST MESSAGE>
This is England a country WITHOUT a core of strength.
"Where are the men?"
For decade after decade, Britain's ruling elites have been indoctrinating and punishing men into passivity. They have internalized the lesson: Using violence to resist evil will be punished. Safer to cower.
Why has this happened? Because Britain's ruling elites--intellectual, educational, cultural, political--are corrupt and depraved.
This is the future if the left stays in charge.
Britons should treat jihad-loving, sharia-loving Muslims as existential enemies. But they should also treat their slavery-loving elites that way.
“In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man
@ The Drill SGT My solution would be to run the a$$holes down with my car. Good for the goose, good for the gander...
and Bryuan C.
In other cultures (think Palestine) rock throwing /stoning is good. But with no rocks? And a crowd afrais to "crowdsource" ...?
Putting these guys on the run and making them sweat would have been a start? And running them down with a car would have been a start. If it got you arrested, so what?
Does anyone in Britain seriously think this response from the Londoners -- watching from a distance -- is going to defuse any thing?
As for C4's dismissal of the Flight 93 people. The girlfriend of one of my older friends was on that flight, as well as the brother of a guy I went to high school with -- so go do what the other more earthy members of this list periodically tell you to do.
Yes, they knew they were going to die -- but they were going to keep others from dying and maybe -- just maybe -- make it out alive themselves.
Wonder how many other people will dies either by these murderers hands, or because of their example?
Cubanbob noted in part, "All else being the same Brittain would have been better off importing Mexicans instead of Muslims."
Cubanbob, have you not seen the headless body count in Mexico? Like Gosnell's body count, it also went virtually unreported here. The sheer terror Mexicans endure under the druglords' reign is amazing.
This cartoon sums it up pretty well:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1783/wimpodites0ph.jpg
"You people will never be safe."
“The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers.
“And this British soldier is one. It is an eye for eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah, we will never stop fighting until you leave us alone.
“So what if we want to live by Sharia in Muslim lands? Why does that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and kill us?"
"Now, about my British welfare check that's owed me...."
@ Dave
Link doesn't work.
What government encourages, it gets more of. The converse is true, too.
What government encourages, it gets more of. The converse is true, too.
I love you. Please don't decapitate me.
The "spirit of London" is one of tender submissiveness. Perhaps it's evidence for the progress of a masochistic trait in their population.
The "men" are either confused or avoiding the PC (progressive corruption) police. It is, after all, incorrect to be overly-judgmental, or judgmental at all. Not even the principles of evolution are capable of prevailing over the indoctrination.
Anyway, the Brits invited the horde into their home. So did the Norwegians, which, among other things, includes a high rate of rape-rape (e.g. of unworthy white women), and the creation of a judge, jury, and executioner (e.g. Anders Behring Breivik).
I was sitting on the lower deck and the bus stopped. I could clearly see a body in the road and a crashed car. I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help.
Then a black guy with a black hat and a revolver in one hand and a cleaver in the other came over. He was very excited and he told me not to get close to the body. I didn't really feel anything. I was not scared because he was not drunk, he was not on drugs. He was normal. I could speak to him and he wanted to speak and that's what we did."
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""There was blood on the pavement by the car where the man on the ground had been hit by it. At first there was no blood by the body but as I talked to the man it began to flow which worried me because blood needs a beating heart to flow. But I didn't want to annoy the man by going back to the body."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first-person-account
The do-nothing idea is growing here too. At the Boston bombing, a bystander saw a Middle-Eastern appearing man run away from the bomb scene. Thinking he might be involved, he tackled him and several people held him captive. It turned out the guy was not involved, tho he was a student who had overstayed his visa, thus technically an illegal.
When this news appeared, an editorial in a college paper there opined that this was the kind of prejudice and hate that America must overcome, etc. Don't dare to have even a suspicion of anyone near a crime scene if it could be construed as racism.
The do-nothing idea is growing here too. At the Boston bombing, a bystander saw a Middle-Eastern appearing man run away from the bomb scene. Thinking he might be involved, he tackled him and several people held him captive. It turned out the guy was not involved, tho he was a student who had overstayed his visa, thus technically an illegal.
When this news appeared, an editorial in a college paper there opined that this was the kind of prejudice and hate that America must overcome, etc. Don't dare to have even a suspicion of anyone near a crime scene if it could be construed as racism.
From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10074833/Woolwich-attack-terror-returns-to-Britains-streets.html
"She asked the black guys ‘can I help him?’ And one of them said he was already dead but she could go.
"Then one of them said 'No man is coming near this body, only women'.
"She was so brave, she didn't care what happened to her - she knelt down by his side and comforted him.
It's somewhat less brave when you've actually been given PERMISSION! In effect they had a pre-feminist woman's privilege.
annk said...
Richard Fernandez sums it up well here:
He also cites a very relevant quote (already partially posted by Akaky):
"And all the time — such is the tragi-comedy of our situation — we continue to clamor for those very qualities we are rendering impossible. You can hardly open a periodical without coming across the statement that what our civilization needs is more “drive”, or dynamism, or self-sacrifice, or “creativity”. In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful."
It's from C.S. Lewis's "The Abolition of Man". Its application here is this: abolish manliness, manhood, and masculinity, and you will abolish modern Western society.
Prof. A. asks "Where are the men?"
You women are trying to create the society you think will be better, and you're getting it, in H.L. Mencken's words, good and hard. You are doing to ALL men what welfare has done to BLACK men. "Tragi-comedy" indeed. DO NOT BLAME THE MEN, DAMN IT!
The women did not do anything but submit. This was classic primate behavior, the females going over and submitting to the new alien Male who had killed one of their own.
What did the women NOT do?
They did not try and run over the head-choppers with a car.
They did not grab a weapon and attack them.
They did not curse them out later and call for their families and people who look like them (Nigerians) and pray like them (Muslims) to be deported.
Indeed, the admiration they had for the head-choppers drips off the page and even more in the video.
They did nothing of any use whatsoever except to feed their own desire to submit.
You ask where the men were? At work mostly. Those who were not were non-White, posting Twitter feeds reproduced on the Daily Mail laughing at the victim and praising their fellow Blacks for killing a White guy.
Given that people critical of Blacks and Muslims on Twitter and Facebook were jailed, the soft-pink police state got exactly what it desired. Submission. For now. Later it will all end in blood.
Pretty much every White guy save the Etonians like Cameron have figured out their heads will be next. Its fine for women, they can submit and bear the conquerors children, care for them, and at least be washerwomen and the like. Women like submission to violent non-Western men like say, the Bombing Borat Brothers from Chechnya (and pal) wives who supported the layabouts. But Joe Average White guy gets thrown in jail for even posting stuff on Twitter. Any White guy aiming to help a victim of Black attackers would have spent more time in jail than these two.
So there will be blood. A lot of it. That's already decided.
I'm English and from south London.You people are ignorant: the English males would be at work and the males present were from "vibrant" communities. Althouse should consider that the one English male there was a soldier who had bravely done his duty in war. To those of you who use this incident to trash my people- I've met Americans face to face and I've never found you to be quite so opinionated . You people are brave in your movies and on the net but in reality you're just a bunch of windy Septics. Where is your uprising against the illegals or the dusky gentlemen who slaughter you in the hundreds every year?
And I forgot to mention Columbine. If you recall the American police were armed and did nothing to stop the slaughter so I don't see how you can insult us.
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