Althouse: "I don't want to just say football players, but all young males — we're failing somewhere if they think this is the norm."

March 14, 2013

"I don't want to just say football players, but all young males — we're failing somewhere if they think this is the norm."

"And I'm not just blaming the boys, either. See, I think they have a sense of, nothing's going to happen, or no holds barred, 'We can do what we want.' "

In Steubenville, Ohio.

218 comments:

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Shouting Thomas said...: Name another topic where the facts are currently being determined at trial.

You don't know the evidence.

They're trying to establish that at trial. The young men might be acquitted.; 3/14/13, 9:57 PM
somefeller said...: Are we to assume that you have never commented on a matter undergoing a a trial? For example, did you never express an opinion on the OJ Simpson case until after the verdict was read? I doubt that.; 3/14/13, 10:00 PM
somefeller said...: And I was also discussing the general topic of whether a passed-out drunk girl is somehow complicit in her own rape, separate from this specific case.; 3/14/13, 10:03 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: No, I don't usually claim to know facts that I don't know.

What's the legal definition of "conscious?"

Do you know?

Point me to this conclusive pictorial and video evidence that proves that the girl was unconscious. You've seen it?; 3/14/13, 10:03 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: It has not been determined that a rape occurred.

I hope you're not a lawyer.; 3/14/13, 10:04 PM
Anonymous said...: @nomen:

It's kind of like a drunk driver still being charged with manslaughter even if the victim was drunk as well.

As to how you get drunks to make the decision, when already drunk, to not drive?

No idea. You have to start with drilling it into their head when they are sober. That'll help a little with some people.; 3/14/13, 10:06 PM
somefeller said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/14/13, 10:09 PM
somefeller said...: Thanks for your concern, but I am a lawyer and have done fairly well for myself in that line of work, despite my limitations, thanks. In terms of evidence, obviously what is admitted in court differs from what is discussed or leaked online. But presumption of innocence is a legal fiction that only those in the jury box need to adhere to. The rest of us can make up our own minds.; 3/14/13, 10:12 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: So, somefeller, why would you take sides in this?

Why does the fate of the boys seem any less compelling to you than the fate of the girl?; 3/14/13, 10:14 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: During the course of the OJ trial, I did reach a conclusion about his guilt.

Of course, that trial was covered on TV for some time, and the evidence was shown and discussed at some length.

While I think that it's obvious OJ murdered his wife, I never had a rooting interest.

Don't here either. I can see where one or the other side might be at fault, or, more likely, that fault might be evenly distributed among everybody involved.; 3/14/13, 10:19 PM
somefeller said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/14/13, 10:22 PM
somefeller said...: As I mentioned previously, my main comments were on general points raised by others, not this specific case.

But in this case, from what I've read about the case, this sounds like a rape occurred and that it is not a hoax like the Duke case. And my natural sympathies lie with crime victims, cops and prosecutors (knowing full well that bad actors do occasionally appear in such circles) particularly once it appears to me that a crime has been committed. That's how I roll.

And it's a pain commenting with an iPhone.; 3/14/13, 10:25 PM
kentuckyliz said...: Kids were taking pics and sharing video that night, and when the feces hit the fan, they deleted them from their phones. Guess what? Those still exist...and the thing that pisses me off is the incompetence of the police department that has no clue about technology. My college's IT students could retrieve that data by midterm of their computer forensics class. It doesn't seem like this step has been taken by the PD...and it would be obvious evidence.

The story, from the beginning, sounds like DFSA. The behavior is very roofie/GBH sounding. Amnesiac drugs make the photo/video evidence all that much more important.

It also will show what has been reported by some kids==that they did try to stop it but the top dog alpha male star football players put them in their place and carried on anyway.

The coach make threatening statements in the media that should have resulted in charges of intimidating a witness.

The police were inactive lazy butts until the public pressure shamed them into doing their job. Put down the damn donut, pig.; 3/14/13, 10:28 PM
MayBee said...: I agree with the basic idea that when two drunk people have sex, neither one can be held more responsible for not giving consent than the other.

But anyone who even wants to sexually molest a passed out person has another problem entirely. Getting sexual pleasure from an unresponsive human body is beyond gross.; 3/15/13, 3:16 AM
Nomennovum said...: A smart lawyer, sf, will recognize that a disturbingly large minority of rape accusations are false. These are especially prevalent in circumstances where the alleged victim needs to cover up her misdeeds, such as acting like a loose woman. Believe it or not, this has happened before in circumstances similar to this.; 3/15/13, 5:59 AM
SGT Ted said...: NPRs angle is drunk girls are victims unable to give informed consent and drunk guys are predatory criminals just waiting for a rape opportunity, because Everybody Knows that Men are actually Rapist-Americans.

The reality is that both drunk boy and girls are incredibly stupid when mixed with no adult supervision.

No one EVAR heard of the high school party girl that was easy when liquored up, right? Nooo, not EVAR, nono! That never happens, she is an Innocent Child Victim of Rapist-Americans.

What a bunch of sexist feminist horseshit.

A lot of false rape allegations are made precisely because the girl wants to stay out of trouble with their parents. But, can't point out that ugly statistcal truth, because you might contradict a feminist, which is de-facto sexism.

But, yes there is a problem with people not doing the right thing when girls are too drunk. I held a big hot tub party in High School and there were a few girsl there. One got really drunk really fast on some wine. I and another guy got dressed and took her home once she got done puking. We were raised to be somewhat chivalrous by fairly conservative parents, so we knew what the right thing to do was.

Gee, I wonder which ideology is prevalent in schools these days that eschews protecting women as the weaker sex and asserts they are just guys with tits and a vagina? Then when the "tough grrrrrl" can't handle her liquor and the guys think she likes to get drunk and screw, just like the guys do, there are suddenly "sexism" problems. Uh-huh.; 3/15/13, 8:53 AM
Big Mike said...: @somefeller, if you're still lurking about, I was merely quoting alpha-feminist Camille Paglia.

Just like Murder on the Orient Express, everybody's guilty.; 3/15/13, 10:39 AM
Nomennovum said...: Just like Murder on the Orient Express, everybody's guilty.

Please type "SPOILER ALERT" next time. Yeesh. I was jsut going to read that. It's new, right?; 3/15/13, 12:13 PM