Althouse: At the Blue Ice Café...

January 25, 2013

At the Blue Ice Café...

... there's nothing to cry about.

74 comments:

chickelit said...: Not a dog in sight!; 1/25/13, 8:29 PM
Hagar said...: I can't quite get clear as to what happened with Beyonce and the national anthem. I think she sang "over" the recording, such that those nearest to her would hear Beyonce, though possibly not at her full volume, but the recording is what everyone else heard.
However, how could the Marine band not have played? They surely were to be seen? And did the band and Beyonce have a practice session? This does not sound right, since I have also read that Beyonce made the decision just before the event based on the cold weather. I just do not understand how this all worked.

However, this is also perfectly apposite to the occasion, since it seems just about everything with President Obama is this way. Nothing is quite right, but we are told it is not exactly false either.; 1/25/13, 8:37 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Thug life!; 1/25/13, 8:43 PM
Synova said...: I bought my gun.

I put the link up before but I don't know if anyone looked at it. :)

It's a Walther PPQ 9mm.; 1/25/13, 8:43 PM
commoncents said...: At FRIDAY NIGHT VIDEOS there's something for everyone...

http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com/2013/01/friday-night-videos.html; 1/25/13, 8:44 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Synova, sweet!; 1/25/13, 8:49 PM
Hagar said...: I will post here, since Ritmo and Inga showed up below.

I do not think what Akin and Mourdock said was all that terrible, "offensive," etc., and the Republican brass should desist from joining the left's chorus on this.

I think what they said was very injudicious given the current climate of public discourse, but I have certainly heard (or read) of politicians saying more ignorant and erroneous things than these two did without raising much of a ruckus.; 1/25/13, 8:51 PM
Paddy O said...: Dissertation officially submitted yesterday. Six weeks of waiting to hear back commences.

Rainy day.

I have a cold.

Dark chocolate ice cream with brownie chunks and dark chocolate shavings being made right now.; 1/25/13, 8:54 PM
Hagar said...: Erika,
Someone should point out to Mayor Emanuel that these companies are the major manufacturers making the arms and ammunition his police force uses.; 1/25/13, 8:57 PM
edutcher said...: Stunning image, Madame.

Any filters or was it really that BLUE?

Hagar said...

I will post here, since Ritmo and Inga showed up below.

I do not think what Akin and Mourdock said was all that terrible, "offensive," etc., and the Republican brass should desist from joining the left's chorus on this.

I think what they said was very injudicious given the current climate of public discourse, but I have certainly heard (or read) of politicians saying more ignorant and erroneous things than these two did without raising much of a ruckus.

Right on the money.

As I said at the time, what Mourdock said was perfectly acceptable, a thoughtful response to the question, but he was Alinskyed.

And, as I said in the previous post, if the media had given the benefit of all of Willie's wisdom, his rep as an astute politician would be the stuff of one-liners; 1/25/13, 9:04 PM
edutcher said...: PS Congrats, Paddy, get well.

I know what you're going through.; 1/25/13, 9:04 PM
Wince said...: New info on that Italian tourist.

Italian tourist busted for trying to stiff steakhouse 'simply did not want to pay:' Police Commissioner Kelly

Graziano Graziussi, who spend the night in jail after a dispute at Smith & Wollensky, was carrying $118 in his wallet on the night when he challenged the $208 check, said NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

FRIDAY, JANUARY 25, 2013, 9:06 PM; 1/25/13, 9:06 PM
Unknown said...: Paddy O
I hope you get well soon. I've had whatever this is for 2 weeks and it's still going strong. Hope what you have is of shorter duration. Best of luck with the dissertation.; 1/25/13, 9:11 PM
Synova said...: What's your dissertation subject, Paddy?

Also, hope you feel better soonest.; 1/25/13, 9:12 PM
Henry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/25/13, 9:21 PM
Henry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/25/13, 9:21 PM
Henry said...: Synova's link reminds me of a passage from Karl Marlantes What it is Like to Go to War that I was going to add to Althouse's Second Amendment post until that post got buried.

Anyway, here it is:

When the Jesse James gang rode into Northfield, Minnesota, to rob the bank, they thought that the town would fall prey to terror just as did all the other small towns they'd raided earlier. They were met by the men, all Civil War veterans, and the gang was destroyed. If drug dealers had shown up at the school in my 1950s logging town, the men would have been down there with rifles. I am not advocating vigilante justice. I'm talking about a basic attitude about a traditional male role: protecting the community. I'm worried that somewhere between the women's movement and the nations reaction to the Vietnam War, this traditional role came to be viewed as obsolete, even déclassé. Too many men abandoned it. Today we expect the police to do everything. We've hired out community protection just as we've hired out military service. Unfortunately, there are never enough police, nor will there ever be.; 1/25/13, 9:22 PM
Cedarford said...: Interesting!
In the Obama is like Nixon category, I had no idea Nixon's January 20th, 1969 official theme was :

Forward Together!

They even made up gift 10K GF jewelry bracelets for the ladies going to the Inaugural Ball with that theme:

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/53692-presidential-memorabilia

Pity someone couldn't have thought ahead and given Michelle one as a "back to the future" present.

Forward!!; 1/25/13, 9:28 PM
Cedarford said...: The men going to the 1969 Nixon Inuaguration Ball did not go "Forward Together" like the ladies did.
They got 10K GF cufflinks with the Capital Dome and "Inauguration of the President and Vice President" on them.

http://www.justcufflinks.com/945.html

However, they did get the cufflinks in gift boxes with the theme "Forward Together" printed on it along with the seals of the President and VP.; 1/25/13, 9:35 PM
sakredkow said...: Frozen tears. Cryogenics. "They're freezing Mr. Foster Freeze today."; 1/25/13, 9:36 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Henry--During the London riots, I was really struck by what incredible p*****s the male Brits came across as, while the Turkish, etc shop owners had every MAN between 16 and 66 lined up in front of their shops with cricket bats in hand.

It made me ashamed for what British males have devolved into. Especially given what British men accomplished a mere sixty years ago.

And it made me proud to be a Texan; I don't think I have to explain what our attitude is about protecting home, family, and property.; 1/25/13, 9:37 PM
Hagar said...: Someone commented that Romney and the Republicans lost the 2012 elections due to "consultant malpractice," and I think there is a lot to that.

The consultants told them they were winning in a walk and should just hunker down and keep a low profile and everything would go well.

It didn't.; 1/25/13, 9:47 PM
somefeller said...: Erika says:And it made me proud to be a Texan; I don't think I have to explain what our attitude is about protecting home, family, and property.

Did you grow up in Texas or have you lived here for more than a few years? I seem to recall you saying you moved to Texas a few years ago. While Texas is a welcoming place and the behavior of the Turkish shopkeepers is commendable, the "our attitude" stuff is a little forced if you haven't been here very long and may be gone with the next job transfer.; 1/25/13, 9:53 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Somefeller, you really don't have to hassle me every time we post in the same thread. It's boring.; 1/25/13, 9:58 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: The not paying for a restaurant tab happened to me once.

It's a long dragged out desultory story of pain and suffering, it has no point to it and no plot development at all and the characters are not worth knowing, here, let's start at the beginning.

I was volunteering. Far from home. Starving. Went to nearby restaurant for lunch. Ate at a splendid buffet. Ordered extra stuff. Man, could I ever EAT. Went to pay. No wallet. Worse, I still would have to drive without id.

I turned white.

But I'm already white so that's not so bad as it sounds. I pleaded with the cashier/hostess/whatever to see my predicament as an honest mistake, a series of honest mistakes, I suppose, but come 'on give a guy a break. I asked, "Can we work something out? Can I leave some type of assurance?" Right then a worker from the back showed up, a black guy, the cook or something.

Me, head sunken, hands in pockets. "Hey money!"

Psych! I have a $20.00 bill in my pocket! Saved!

I felt light as air. I asked, "What would you have done? Made me wash dishes?"

That serious question caused the guy who showed up to crack up laughing his so hard his ass fell right off. For some reason the idea of me being forced to wash dishes struck him as so hilarious he split his sides laughing as he disappeared back to the kitchen.; 1/25/13, 9:58 PM
madAsHell said...: Wow!! I thought blue ice was an Old Spice deodorant....or something that fell out of an airplane with a leaky septic system.; 1/25/13, 10:00 PM
somefeller said...: I don't do so, Erika. I just respond to your comments when you say things that are particularly dumb or worthy of ridicule, even by your standards. So don't flatter yourself.; 1/25/13, 10:02 PM
Hagar said...: The first steps to stop being the stupid party should be to cease attacking your own candidates and to stop taking advice from the Democrats.

(The Democrats do not have your welfare at heart.); 1/25/13, 10:08 PM
edutcher said...: Erika, some phony folksy likes to think he's the master of gay repartee and anyone who doesn't see things his way is hopelessly declasse.

Clearly, he's insecure.; 1/25/13, 10:17 PM
Patrick said...: Good job Paddy! Feel better soon.; 1/25/13, 10:18 PM
somefeller said...: Hey, edutcher has shown up! Can you tell us some stories about how Obama stole the election from Romney or about your longtime unemployment? Those are always funny stories.; 1/25/13, 10:22 PM
Revenant said...: Congrats on the handgun, Synova.; 1/25/13, 10:23 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Are you enjoying being an unpleasant, aggressive asshole, somefeller? Is this your idea of a good time on a Friday night?

I really don't understand the motivations of you hooting primates who show up with your gratuitous insults and valueless comments. Why do you do it?; 1/25/13, 10:24 PM
Revenant said...: the "our attitude" stuff is a little forced if you haven't been here very long and may be gone with the next job transfer.

What an amusingly pretentious thing for you to say.; 1/25/13, 10:27 PM
KCFleming said...: "gratuitous insults and valueless comments"

The lead band at the Inauguration party.; 1/25/13, 10:27 PM
edutcher said...: somefeller said...

Hey, edutcher has shown up! Can you tell us some stories about how Obama stole the election from Romney or about your longtime unemployment? Those are always funny stories.

Maybe you can tell us how you keep showing up here on "work" days. Unless, of course, management thinks it's cool you spend all your time lurking.

PS At last report, longtime unemployed constituted 9.4% of the workforce, so, yeah, that's real funny.

More of that Lefty empathy on display.

And, if I were a Lefty thrall like some phony folksy, I'd be trying to show a brave front at the idea a quarter of the American people think the election was stolen.

Revolutions have started with less.; 1/25/13, 10:31 PM
edutcher said...: Erika said...

Are you enjoying being an unpleasant, aggressive asshole, somefeller? Is this your idea of a good time on a Friday night?

Actually, it is.

Remember, he's stuck in Mom's basement all week.; 1/25/13, 10:32 PM
somefeller said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/25/13, 10:40 PM
kentuckyliz said...: Icy-road day today. We were sent home at 11 a.m. But we shouldn't have gone in at all this morning.

I've lived in Kentucky for 18 1/2 years...and I'm a Kentuckian, but I know it will never be in my bones. I am a transplant. A lucky transplant. I wasn't fortunate enough to be born and raised here, but I had the sense to make my way here just as soon as I could.

Don't mess with Texas.; 1/25/13, 10:40 PM
kentuckyliz said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/25/13, 10:40 PM
somefeller said...: Revolutions have started with less.

Cool, a new story! Edutcher as Walter Mitty, brave leader of The Revolution! After he gets his trusty pair of Depends on, of course.; 1/25/13, 10:41 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Liz-Kentucky is one of the places I want to visit someday. Got some hardscrabble Scots-Irish in the woodpile and I'd like to see the place they settled a couple hundred years ago. What's left around the Taco Bells and car dealerships, anyway.; 1/25/13, 10:47 PM
kentuckyliz said...: Spending a significant amount of time in the mountains enabled me to perceive and appreciate such a culture.

I'm a different kind of Brit, myself--Irish Catholic, Welsh, Midlands Brit...not Ulster Scots-Irish Protestant. I would have been one of the resistance attacking the Ulster Plantation invaders and their property. I'm sympathetic to the Irish re The Troubles.; 1/25/13, 11:05 PM
Henry said...: Well I've lived in Massachusetts for three months.

Before that I lived in Rhode Island for twelve years.

Don't mess with Rhode Island, either.; 1/25/13, 11:08 PM
Almost Ali said...: I may have mentioned that ages ago I managed a popular local steak house. And not once did a customer attempt to skate on their check.

But some did try to steal virtually anything that wasn't nailed down. Everything from salt shakers to the faux artwork that we had literally screwed into the walls.

But not to worry, we had Lynn, a very savvy waiter with a dry sense of humor. So he simply noted whatever the customer slipped into their doggy bag, adding the price to their check without comment of fanfare. For example, this exchange between Lynn and a one-time customer had me nearly rolling on the floor:

"Waiter, what's this $99 charge on my check for!"
"The Van Gogh print," Lynn replied matter-of-factly.
"What 'Van Gogh' print?"
"The one under your jacket."; 1/25/13, 11:09 PM
Henry said...: One thing I liked about Rhode Island was that it was so broken it couldn't be broken anymore. It just was. You didn't have to worry about beautiful farmland being turned into subdivisions or your hometown being cut in half by a freeway because all that stuff had already happened. It was done and nobody had any plan to fix it. Rhode Island is a broken, beautiful, basket-case of a state. My sister-in-law called it Rhode-Island-the-soap-opera. I'm proud of it this week.

But here's the thing about moving to Massachusetts. Sooner or later you do want to live in a place that can run a functioning school system.; 1/25/13, 11:17 PM
ampersand said...: @kentuckyliz I wasn't fortunate enough to be born and raised here, but I had the sense to make my way here just as soon as I could.

Anton Cermak (mayor of Chicago,born in Czechoslovakia)
"I didn't come over on the Mayflower,but I got here as fast as I could"; 1/25/13, 11:22 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Doofus up above was trying to belittle me for my enthusiasm as a first-generation Texan, but I am proud of it. I was born elsewhere, and I have lived in five states and three countries (not to mention visited a couple dozen more), and this is the only place that has made me say, yes, I have come home to my people. Texas is a state of mind. I will never leave, because after almost thirty-five years wandering this earth I have found my home. Why should I be ashamed of having the good sense to suss out the best place on earth?; 1/25/13, 11:32 PM
William said...: The good thing about NY is that if you feel out of place, you have that in common with your neighbors....Over the years life here has gotten better. A lot less crime and a few less panhandlers. Central Park is much nicer, and the subways, while still crowded, are clean and run on time.....Not quite paradise, but a much better place than the city of my youth. That's not how most people thought things would turn out. People always think tomorrow will be like today except more so, but then there's a sea change. Maybe our world is not headed towards doom and extinction.; 1/25/13, 11:56 PM
Paddy O said...: Synova, it's a bit of a blend of practical and systematic theology. I used the writings of a German theologian, Moltmann, to help give substance to and better explanation of some contemporary church models (for instance). I sought to show how what they were doing in practice was in a lot of ways very much what he has been pointing towards for the last fifty years.

They were coming from two very different directions which provides some very nice mutual support if I can prove they're on the same page. The degree is in systematic theology, so it definitely has more of an academic than practical focus, but it was nice not to be so disconnected from real experiences.

And thanks all!; 1/26/13, 12:11 AM
Paddy O said...: "as a first-generation Texan"

So how long does it take for Texan to go away? That's not mocking, that's me wondering. My great grandfather rode the rails from Texas to California in the early 20th century. Came from West Texas.Was a farmer and helped build some of the piers on the SoCal coast (owned land in Venice back in the day... oh to have that land now).

After he had been here a while, he brought his mom in from Texas. Apparently a very hard sort of women, a very West Texas sort of woman who had lived a hard life.

I've California in me going back over a hundred years on both sides of the family, but these days now that California really has gotten rid of itself, I get to wondering what living in Texas would feel like. Would it feel like home, because of the roots (the O part of my family gets to Texas and nothing is known earlier).

I spent a few weeks in Ireland a decade ago, mostly out of the tourist places. Felt more at home among the Irish there than I have most anywhere else in my life -- lots of Scots-Irish blood in me from the other side.

Which gets me to thinking if not Ireland, what about Texas. More sun in Texas. I suspect it might a good fit. Though, maybe there's a reason my great grandfather hitched a ride on a train when he was young. Though, maybe it's the same sort of reason why people are trying to get to Texas now--to go where the economy is better and where one can offer more hope for a family.; 1/26/13, 12:22 AM
cf said...: It makes me sad to see a Texan be so ungenerous to others who have breathed in the Good of the place. Are your pants on too tight there in the crotch, Somefellar?

I was born and raised under that great big sky, and in that gasping heat that makes ever-y-one slowwww dowwwn. Lotsa prickly stickers, don't walk barefoot, but you can count on an effortless kindness from those you meet, an exceptional quality I have pondered all my years away (closest match to it I found was in Tennessee). I am renewed and restored in that amity every time I am back.

And though I have been away a while, my brother the Judge would I think agree with me that no Texan can veto another's claim to their personal Texanhood. And why would you want to? Relax. (change into looser pants, SF).

And a toast, clink!, to all the tender places we can love and call home, even if we are not there now.; 1/26/13, 1:44 AM
cf said...: That is to say, Erika and Paddy O, if you have Texas in your heart then you have Texas in your heart! It's already and maybe ever has been yours.; 1/26/13, 1:51 AM
cf said...: OK, one more thing, anyone still awake?

Paddy O, wow! I have not heard of these church models, but it sure sounds like they are framed rightly. Very exciting, and the thinking connects with what is working for me now. Thank you for the link for exploring more, and Godspeed.

(And thank you, Synova, for asking him his subject!); 1/26/13, 2:19 AM
Unknown said...: thank you m\n
ابراج يوم السبت; 1/26/13, 2:24 AM
Clyde said...: I was born in Abilene, so I'm a Texan by birth but a Floridian by choice (for 27 years now, so I'm almost a Cracker native!). My family moved north when I was 8, and I haven't been back to Texas since my grandmother's funeral in '77. I suppose that if I hadn't ended up here, I could very well have gone back to Texas eventually, but here I am and here I shall stay.

And if somefeller is from Texas, I'm guessing Austin.; 1/26/13, 6:08 AM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "I really don't understand the motivations of you hooting primates who show up with your gratuitous insults and valueless comments. Why do you do it?"

I do because it helps me with my development of a healthy perspective regarding my ego. To remind myself of how much I don't know and never did is important.

In short, Eastwood summed it up with "a man's got to know his limitations" and Althouse helps me realize this in real time.

Great question btw.; 1/26/13, 6:53 AM
Deb said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/26/13, 6:56 AM
Deb said...: Late to the game, as usual, but in the movie "Bernie", there's a very funny scene where one of the locals explains the way Texas is divided up. It's particularly funny how he describes the Austin area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JREkqCvLzSo; 1/26/13, 7:15 AM
Hagar said...: Poor New Mexico!
So far from Heaven, so close to Texas!; 1/26/13, 7:16 AM
Hagar said...: As true today as in 1846!; 1/26/13, 7:18 AM
edutcher said...: somefeller said...

Revolutions have started with less.

Cool, a new story! Edutcher as Walter Mitty, brave leader of The Revolution! After he gets his trusty pair of Depends on, of course.

Actually, my continence is just fine and probably a lot better than some phony folksy's - probably the reason he still lives with Mom.

And the lack of reading comprehension he and all his little alter egos love to invoke in their is once again on display in his writing.

If he actually read comments around here, he'd know more than I have been predicting some kind of break and I never said I'd be the one to lead it.

Clyde said...

And if somefeller is from Texas, I'm guessing Austin.

"If" is the right word. As I've said before, I'm guessing 90% of the trolls are one or two people running a ton of sockpuppets.; 1/26/13, 7:53 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Deb, hilarious, thanks!; 1/26/13, 8:09 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Cf, lovely comment; it reminds me of the tone of the Texanist in the back pages of Texas Monthly.; 1/26/13, 8:10 AM
Big Mike said...: @Paddy, I want to add my congratulations. It's a huge milestone in your life.

Take it easy. There is a bug running around that is awfully debilitating.; 1/26/13, 8:47 AM
purplepenquin said...: I'd be trying to show a brave front at the idea a quarter of the American people think the election was stolen.

And if I was someone with actual proof that an election was stolen, I'd come forth with it.

Seriously...quite a few folks, including a couple WI politicians, keep repeating the claim there were over 200,000 illegal votes cast in Wisconsin alone, but nobody can point to even one of 'em.

What makes it really interesting is that the GOP totally controls Wisconsin. If there was voter fraud of this magnitude, why aren't we hearing about any investigations/arrests?

Either nothing of the sort actually happened....or the WI-GOP was working with the Dems to make it happen.; 1/26/13, 9:13 AM
edutcher said...: People bused in from Chicago don't count?

Clearly, there was vote fraud on a massive scale in the last election, but the Lefties like purple long since threw their integrity to the four winds.; 1/26/13, 10:05 AM
purplepenquin said...: Clearly, there was vote fraud on a massive scale in the last election,

Then clearly, there should be some proof of these fraudulent votes....especially when you are claiming there are over 200,000 of 'em cast in Wisconsin alone.

And yet instead of showing any sort of proof at all to back up your claim, you resort to silly name-calling and false labels.

*shrug*

(Point of clarification: Were you bragging in another thread how you usually provide links to back your statements up, or am I thinking of someone else?); 1/26/13, 10:24 AM
edutcher said...: I've linked more here than probably anybody but Ann. Which, if you know I've said that before, you know I've already linked to those facts, moron.

Why not go back and look?

PS We're only now getting around to prosecuting vote fraud from '08 and '10, so, yeah, it's a cute little Lefty out somebody gave you.; 1/26/13, 10:42 AM
purplepenquin said...: I've linked more here than probably anybody but Ann

Really? You link even more more than me? 'cause I don't recall ever seeing you provide a link. (Ain't saying you haven't, 'cause I don't read everything on here.)

But I'll play your game. (since it obvious you want to play rather than discuss) My earlier post in this thread has a link. The score is now 1-0, my favor. Show me a post where you provided a link to tie it up, show two posts from you to take the lead.

We're only now getting around to prosecuting vote fraud from '08 and '10

Are they just now getting around to starting the investigations into those, or getting around to the prosecutions? Please clarify.

To clear it up: I ain't asking you to point to any actual convictions, rather I'm just asking for some actual links that backs up your claim that over 200,000 fraudulent votes were cast in Wisconsin. With that many be alleged, surely you should be able to provide something...; 1/26/13, 11:22 AM
edutcher said...: Just because your memory stinks is not my fault.

Some of your alter egos went around copying everything everybody said about the election.

Why don't you change sockpuppets and ask them?; 1/26/13, 11:49 AM
purplepenquin said...: Wow. You're really jumping all over the place, ain't ya? Let me try and address all your points, one-by-one.

1) I have no sockpuppets or "alter egos". Not only have I been posting under this name since last century, I've been called it in the "real world" for even longer than that.

2)I'm also not a "lefty" (nttawwt, of course) unless you happen to be Sally's dad.

3) You brag about how you provide links more than anyone else here, but you can't even provide a link to you providing a link. (The score is now 2-0, and you're losing.)

4) I've said nothing insulting nor rude towards you, only asking to see the basis for your claim, yet you insist on calling names and hurling insults. Do you behave as such when off-line, talking to people, as well?

5) I asked if you could clarify your earlier comment, 'cause it isn't clear what you are trying to say: Are they just now getting around to starting the investigations into those cases from '08 and '10 or are they getting around to the actual prosecutions?

6) Despite the constant claims that there were over 200,000 illegal votes cast in Wisconsin, nobody can point to any actual examples of it happening. Clearly this statement is an emotional reaction to losing the election, rather than anything fact-based.; 1/26/13, 12:26 PM
ken in tx said...: My wife and I are planning to move to Texas when she retires. I know we will never be considered Texans no matter how long we live there. I have been there often enough and love the place, but I have been called a Yankee there even though I was born in Alabama and live in South Carolina. I have relatives that helped settle Texas but it wasn't me so I know I will never be considered a Texan.

BTW, look up Manse Jolly for an interesting South Carolina-Texas story.; 1/26/13, 1:51 PM
Nichevo said...: Funny, this Jolly sounds like a murderer to me. But I only read one link; however, it sounded laudatory, so author presumably advocated murder. Ok then. I guess it's like that Quantrill guy, they spoke of in True Grit; pick a side.; 1/26/13, 10:23 PM