Rush Limbaugh, just now. "Biden did exactly what was desired, and in the process hurt himself and Obama.... His job was to excite the base.... They came out of their shell: none of this compassion and understanding... The base wants blood. The base wants rude.... Biden gave them exactly what they wanted."
UPDATE: How it looked, per Rush: "Paul Ryan was a son who was a little embarrassed for his father... trying to tell his dad that the world has passed him by" without subjecting him to public humiliation.
October 12, 2012
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Rude and self righteous. Sounds about right.
Joe was the fighting nutroots in action. So they loved it.
The rest of us? Not so much.
He probably said Democrat, not Democratic.
Rush may be on to something. We did have many months in Madison where the Democrat base got to be who they want to be.
The voters did not approve.
without subjecting him to public humiliation
I thought the same thing. I wouldn't have subjected him to public humiliation either. I don't think most people would have. It's cultural. A younger person publicly humiliating an older person is disrespectful and comes off very badly.
The Biden you saw last night is the left in general.
There is no such thing as disagreement. All disagreement is "lying" or "bigotry."
The person you disagree with is just an evil, lying, greedy bastard in the back pocket of the evil corporations.
It's an ideology in a death spiral. No ideas.
I think that appealing to independents is more important than exciting the base at this point in the campaign. But I'm not a Dem strategy genius.
Bazinga.
There is truth to that as far as the congressional party goes: old, false teeth, and out of ideas; can't really remember the ones they used to have either.
The Obama administration is approaching dangerous territory now.
They have convinced themselves that the fiery, denunciatory, wild language of the Democratic Underground will carry them to victory.
This is actually a sign of desperation.
They're appealing to the choir. That leftist choir really believes that these tactics work.
They are in for a rude awakening.
The party that feels the need to energize the base in October - rather than reach for the middle - is in serious trouble.
Several people who favor Biden have remarked positively on the fact that Biden was older than Ryan, suggesting that he treated Ryan like a "little boy" and deservedly so.
It usually says more about the speaker that they would consider it reasonable to act this way with a young, inexperienced, possibly foolish person -- if one is able to see Ryan in those terms. Are the young to be laughed at? At they to be mocked, dismissed and insulted?
If Biden had played the role of a patient, elder mentor, then it might have been understandable for people to suggest that he was debating a young, hot-headed radical with grandiose plans. But as Biden played the role of the hot-head, Ryan came across as Rush suggests -- a younger man put into a socially awkward position.
Occupy the Debates
Loud, rude, and ignorant.
I do think that Biden clearly demonstrated what is most ugly about politics on all sides. He perfectly personified what we all hate. The refusal to listen, the use of talking points, the refusal to give on any point, the ridicule instead of respect, the appeals to the base at the expense of everyone else, the abandonment of trying to change minds with reason and truth. What he was last night is exactly what's wrong.
Tick tick tick...time's almost up, Joe.
Isn't Ryan almost 50? How is that "young?" Middle-aged, right?
Two wars on a credit card demonstrate how ignorant Biden is. Every war we have fought has been with borrowed money. Wars are expensive. Even during WW2 despite 90% marginal rates, the Federal govt borrow money, ie, use a credit card or war bonds to fund the war.
Well Iraq is over and we are putting an additional one trillion per year on the credit card with no appreciable result.
If Biden invigorated the base then it should be noted the Democrat base prefers rude, lying buffoons as its political leaders.
If Biden's performance was just to excite the base -- doing damage control on Obama's performance -- then at least Obama and Biden are working as a team. So that's good.
The Smerkin' Merkin, Herr Biden, represented the Dem's Hail Mary play. Obama was who he is in his debate. He won't be able to get more knowledgeable because he can't change who he is. But he can get angrier. But will that work or will it backfire?
Therefore, Joe was also their Judas Goat; sent out to test if his behavior would play well enough for Obama to try it.
The result can't make them happy.
Isn't Ryan almost 50? How is that "young?" Middle-aged, right?
I think Ryan is only 42.
Matthew--Ryan is 42, a glowing-with-health-and-vitality 42, at that.
I run into people like Biden all the time in my job. Older generation lawyers, mostly male, who think they can roll over younger opposing counsel with a big shit-eating grin, gladhand the judge, and smarm all over a jury. This simply does not work anymore, not with juries anyway (judges are another matter). Clearly it didn't play too well in front of the Ultimate Jury either. 48-44.
The longer I watched last night, the more it became clear that Biden, like Obama, is utterly out of touch with ordinary America. He didn't see his own unforced error. He never toned it down; I think he just got a little tired toward the end. A lifetime cocooned safely away in a series of well paid government jobs, nestled deep in the progressive tank, pampered, privileged, and protected from reality. Times have changed out in the world.
What a joke that everyone keeps saying he's a nice man. He's so obviously not. Just a spoiled, petulant old clown who will say anything to keep his cushy job.
Oh, and don't forget: ...
Ugly
Yeah, ugly, right Althouse?
Joe Biden giving the Get Off My Lawn vibe.
"His job was to excite the base.... They came out of their shell: none of this compassion and understanding... The base wants blood. The base wants rude.... Biden gave them exactly what they wanted."
All of which is true. But what does it say about the Democratic base? It says that they're basically thugs, bullies, the sort of people who rely on being obnoxious to get their way. (All of which traits were on display in Madison recently, by the way)
Ah, but the strawberries! That's, that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, and with, with geometric logic, that, that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox did exist.
Joe Biden
But, the messboys ate the strawberries.
Paul Ryan
I think that appealing to independents is more important than exciting the base at this point in the campaign. But I'm not a Dem strategy genius.
If you're less than a month out and still have to fire up the base --- you have problems.
Remember, Republicans "hate" Romney, yet he doesn't have to fire them up. They are on board.
Democrats who "love" Obama, however, need firing up.
Nice narrative.
All of which is true. But what does it say about the Democratic base? It says that they're basically thugs, bullies, the sort of people who rely on being obnoxious to get their way. (All of which traits were on display in Madison recently, by the way)
It also says they don't really think Obama is worth voting for.
A younger person publicly humiliating an older person is disrespectful and comes off very badly.
I agree. Furthermore, excepting this debate and certain other times, Joe Biden can be a very likeable guy. He's got that sweet grandpa thing going, even when he's saying dumb stuff you're just like oh grandpa. There he goes again. So I think it was wise of Ryan not to go for the throat too much. It also created a greater contrast.
Dems: If you can't be excited, you can at least be principled: Vote Green Party.
Although come to think of it, my grandfather could be kind of a jerk so maybe that's why I find Biden grandfatherly :)
It reminded me of the Paul Wellstone Funerally.
Nah, nah. Joe Biden is just a faithful old Tammany brave.
But I think the commenter who said his wife's friends reaction was that they did not want to see this old brave around their children, nailed it.
Obama & Biden are starting to act like cornered rats.
Not a flattering image.
Once again, Eastwood's speech at the Republican Convention is proving to be relevant and prescient. Remember that he called Biden "the intellect of the Democratic party," and "kind of a grin with a body behind it." As Rush's comments make clear, we saw both of those elements in the debate last night.
As Ryan said, the choice is clear.
Paul Ryan was a son
Biden meets Ryan before the debate
To the person who said Ryan is almost 50. Nowhere near. He's just 42.
But Biden will be 70 in a couple of weeks.
Andy R. links...
Biden meets Ryan before the debate
POTUS looks stoned. Biden is in character. Who's the kid?
He's got that sweet grandpa thing going, even when he's saying dumb stuff you're just like oh grandpa. There he goes again.
I think people should stop and think about this description of Biden. Is this the person you want leading the country?
Is Putin or Dinnerjacket going to treat him with grandpa gloves? He's the Vice President not the village Oracle.
Who's the kid?
President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden talk with Zachary Atala, son of Dr. Anthony Atala, M.D., Director, Wake Forest Institute for Regenerative Medicine. Official White House Photo by Pete Souza
creepy
Yes, that picture does reflect your attitude, Andy.
Why do you think that that attitude reflects well on you?
Rush pretty much hit the nail on the head. Just look the libs that post here.
Laughing and smiling are much easier than remembering, especially when your short term memory ain't what it used to be. Ryan was too kind to the old man. But, when I talk with my 87 year old mom, I don't give her a hard time about asking me the same question 3 times in 5 minutes. If Ryan had made a cutting joke about old Joe, I wonder if he would have got it. Joe certainly didn't know the difference between a joke (him) and the serious issues last night.
Biden meets Ryan before the debate
I'm pretty confident that kid is smarter than Biden. Then again there are sheep that could outwit Biden.
Andy's asking the question, "Is Obama as smart as a 5th grader?"
The answer is "No."
One of the yahoo articles this morning was something like 'love him or hate him, Biden ruled the night'. Hilarious spin.
Obama picked Joe Biden for his his years in the Senate and to give the ticket "gravatas". But what we say last night was the real Joe Biden, the small man with a chip on his shoulder. The dishonest plagiarist of law school and campaign, the lying brager of number of degrees, law school standing and obviously IQ. Joe Biden is the over compensating buffoon, most likely due to his being cheated by his father squandering and drinking away his family's inheritance. He deserves our pity.
What I heard in my mind while watching Joe Biden last night:
“See this pen, Martha? Do you see this pen? My dear friend Tip O’Neill gave this very pen to my dear friend Ronald Reagan, who gave it to me just so that I could lean across this table tonight and wave it in your face. That’s bipartisanship!”
DADvocate: Biden got the joke about not always saying the right thing. So did the audience.
One of the yahoo articles this morning was something like 'love him or hate him, Biden ruled the night'.
It's weird the way conservatives are all making fun of Biden. It was at best a tie for Ryan, and lots of people think Ryan lost. I saw two polls after, one was a Biden victory, one was a Ryan victory, with I think the Biden victory poll coming from undecided voters.
Biden is obviously a smart guy, so it's weird for conservatives to pretend he's not when lots of people think Biden won the debate.
If Biden is dumb, Ryan is dumber for losing a debate to him.
Biden is obviously a smart guy
That's funny.
Really. I mean, who posts something so stupid?
Hair-Plug Smug, Tooth-Veneer Sneers
Sphincter-Shrug Mug, Liesure-Suit Leers
It's the Joe Biden Way
Hip Hip Hooray
You're Paper-Mache, There's No Way Jose.
Biden is obviously a smart guy, so it's weird for conservatives to pretend he's not when lots of people think Biden won the debate.
Biden is a plargarist, which is documented.
Biden lied about his rank in his law school class, which is documented.
Biden lied about his war votes, both of which are documented.
Biden has made at least 20 idiotic gaffe's in the last 4 years.
You are silly for even brining up these statements.
Ann Althouse 10/11/12 - "The day Ryan won me over to Romney"
Of course she won't admit it.
" It was at best a tie for Ryan, and lots of people think Ryan lost. I saw two polls after, one was a Biden victory, one was a Ryan victory, with I think the Biden victory poll coming from undecided voters."
-- The only poll that I've seen Biden winning is the CBS poll. Every other poll has Ryan ahead several points, and they've all been of undedcideds. Well, I saw another that Biden eked out a victory, but it was solely of Californian voters.
You're right it was, at best, a tie. But you're wrong about who should be arguing for the tie.
"Biden is obviously a smart guy, so it's weird for conservatives to pretend he's not when lots of people think Biden won the debate.
If Biden is dumb, Ryan is dumber for losing a debate to him."
That's an interesting progression of logic.
From "it's at best a tie" to close with "Ryan is dumber" for losing, each step seemingly presupposing the earlier, but not actually justifying the conclusion at all.
In effect you said, "Some people think Biden won the debate and thus it must be true that Ryan is dumber"
What is this media consensus that Biden won? Am I living in Orwell's 1984?
Andy's idea of a debate:
You're a bigot if you disagree with me!
Yes, Andy is quite an expert on debate.
Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say
Fifty percent of uncommitted voters who tuned into Thursday night's vice presidential debate in Danville, Ky., said they see Vice President Joe Biden as the winner over Mitt Romney's GOP running mate Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., according to an instant poll taken by CBS News.
Of the 431 polled immediately following the debate, 31 percent deemed Ryan the winner, and 19 percent said they felt it was a tie. Party-wise it's a switch from last week's presidential debate, which uncommitted voters handed easily to Romney over President Obama.
Andy R
Do we really want four more years of a Vice President that acts like the obnoxious drunk car salesman sitting at the bar.
Right. CBS. CNN, AP, Fox and another I can't remember, all gave it to Ryan.
"Paul Ryan was a son who was a little embarrassed for his father... trying to tell his dad that the world has passed him by" without subjecting him to public humiliation."
Amen. Mr. Biden is still the Vice President, with a biography that includes 36 years in the Senate. He's due some deference for that. Independents and older votes would have reacted badly to Mr. Ryan disrespecting him.
Besides, one loudmouth thumping his chest and talking over everyone last night was plenty.
(Also: The CBS and... I think it was CNBC? ... are the only polls that have outlandish margins (I think CNBC is the one giving Ryan a whopping 58%.) The others are much more what we should be seeing, with Ryan ahead, but within the MOE, because that's more indicative of the trends/responses I saw in real time in forums, Twitter, C-SPAN, etc. My sample isn't scientific, but either Biden or Ryan getting a blow out doesn't grok.
It's weird the way conservatives are all making fun of Biden.
I'm not sure if that's directed at me or yahoo.
Is it making fun of biden to point out his interruptions and weird laughing? I think that's more a statement of fact.
What a bunch of whiners! Notice how Limbaugh or Althouse don't try to defend the many lies and deep bullshit of Paul Ryan that led to the laughs of exasperation from Joe Biden.
Defend that Medicare voucher plan, Rush! Why do you think seniors can negotiate with health insurance companies and not get screwed? How will that voucher keep pace with medical inflation?
Defend the war mongering! Ryan did a terrible job of saying what, besides a military attack, they wold do differently against Iran.
Defend the empty promise of closed loopholes that neither Romney nor Ryan can point out.
Defend the ban on abortion even in cases of rape and incest.
They can't defend that stuff, they don't want to talk to it while they are wearing their moderate masks, so they whine about Biden's laughs.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
"Do we really want four more years of a Vice President that acts like the obnoxious drunk car salesman sitting at the bar. "
Palin was defeated with McCain in 2008.
ha ha ha ha!
Alpha resorts to a repetition of Biden's tactics.
He also doesn't know that these tactics signal the death spiral of his ideology.
Andy R. said...
Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say
Want to guess why you're ignoring the 3 polls (AP, CNBC, and CNN) showing Ryan won?
or is this the part you pretend you didn't see them?
AndyR: Of the 431 polled immediately following the debate, 31 percent deemed Ryan the winner, and 19 percent said they felt it
Well, yes, that's just CBS, then there are the other polls:
The instant polls:
CNBC: Ryan 56%-36%...
CBS: Biden 50%-31%...
CNN: Ryan 48%-44%
AP: Ryan 51%-43%.
...then there are the internals on the CNN poll, which break even more strongly for Ryan on likeability, etc.:
28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.
55% said that the vice president did better than expected, with 51% saying that the congressman from Wisconsin performed better than expected.
By a 50%-41% margin, debate watchers say that Ryan rather than Biden better expressed himself.
Seven in ten said Biden was seen as spending more time attacking his opponent, and that may be a contributing factor in Ryan's 53%-43% advantage on being more likable. Ryan also had a slight advantage on being more in touch with the problems of average Americans.
So are these the same Democrats who have worshipped at the altar of the youth vote for years? Now the strategy is to mock someone younger?
Whatever. Typical liberals - we love women, unless they are Republicans. We love young people, unless they are Republicans. We love gay people, unless we can use that as a slur on a Republican.
Huh. Didn't realize AP was as big of a swing as it was. Maybe the CBS poll is an even bigger outlier than I thought.
If Biden "won", then one would expect him to be put in front of the press so as to capitalize on this "victory" instead of being kept away from the press as he has been for the past 5 months.
Anyone bet we'll see Joe agrinnin' and aspinnin' on MTP or similar venue this Sunday?
Anyone?
Alpha lib
Ask those 50 something Dem legislatures that sucked gas in 2010, if Palin is a loser.
Watch the Biden / Palin debate, Palin had facts, Biden just made shit up.
Barring any very odd event, the cascade voting for Romney Ryan will start in 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ........
CBS interviewed Pauline Kael and her coterie of friends.
First and foremost, VPs are the 1st manifestations of the judgment of the President candidate in their 1st major decision.
Does their VP pick show good judgment to mainstream Americans that don't happen to belong to the Far Left or Far Right?
Is the VP pick knowledgable?
Are they temperate and reasoned under duress?
Could they do the job if something happened to the President?
Are they leaders in their own right?
In 2008, Sarah Palin didn't pass the threshold in the eyes of many independents and moderate women.
In 2012, I think Paul Ryan impressed many not even thinking of voting Republican until recently - as a fine selection by Romney. A younger guy with character, brains, and an A-class temperment.
And Biden?
I'm afraid that he made many people think that he reflects poor judgment on Obama's part - a fact glossed over by Obama's media lapdogs in 2008.
My sister emailed me this morning. She is a fiscal conservative but a guilty white liberal on social issues who voted Obama before and will likely vote Obama this time.
I can't begin to imagine that grinning asshole with his finger on the button if something happens to Barack. I wish Ryan had smacked him.
Ann, if you're quoting/paraphrasing Rush, it's Democrat Party.
He often says there's nothing democratic about them.
Speaking of clownish buffoons, is there any chance that Alpha or Jay could refrain from boilerplating every post they make with inclusion of:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
????
Personally, I thought the debate was a draw, mostly because I could never hear Ryan's points over Biden's buffoonery. But, Ryan came in to the debate with better likability numbers than Biden. My guess is that subsequent polling will show Biden did himself no favor in that respect.
For Republicants, the biggest offense from Joe Biden was to win the debate against Paul Ryan.
That's the real reason for all the teeth gnashing.
Ha ha ha!
For Republicants, the biggest offense from Joe Biden was to win the debate against Paul Ryan.
According to the majority of polls, Biden lost.
Alex said...
What is this media consensus that Biden won? Am I living in Orwell's 1984?
Invoke Rashomon.
I hope that the Obama campaign continues to appeal to people like Alpha, by using the "liar" and "bigot" tactics.
They'll lose.
"So are these the same Democrats who have worshipped at the altar of the youth vote for years? Now the strategy is to mock someone younger?"
Let me help you with that.
Recruiting the youth vote is very different from supporting someone who is too young and inexperienced (and unconnected from reality) to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.
And, this year, Republicans are trying to suppress the youth vote by putting obstacles in the way of voting, such as the Voter ID poll tax, and other restriction on voting.
And stopping people from voting to win office is corrupt and downright un-American. And, not funny.
"Paul Ryan was a son who was a little embarrassed for his father... trying to tell his dad that the world has passed him by" without subjecting him to public humiliation.
So Rush has "Daddy" issues to go along with his other psychological problems.
Biden and Thompson need to join a lawn bowling team and raise tomatoes.
all the teeth gnashing.
Remember, we've all paid for Joe Biden's teeth.
Alpha voter
Please explain where a voter ID poll tax has been imposed?
And stopping people from voting to win office is corrupt and downright un-American. And, not funny.
More and more often, Dems resort to the "Archie Bunker" argument!
I mean, who posts something so stupid?
Jay and edutcher. Reliably.
It's funny how con's react to direct charges that their leader lie and lie often.
A) Whine
B) Say it is unfair to accuse someone of lying.
C) Desperately avoid the substance in question.
Also, too, Ryan lied about trivial stuff, out of habit, such as his false claim to be a top Marathon runner.
AlphaLiberal said...
What a bunch of whiners! Notice how Limbaugh or Althouse don't try to defend the many lies and deep bullshit of Paul Ryan that led to the laughs of exasperation from Joe Biden.
I will try. Ad seriatum
Defend that Medicare voucher plan, Rush! Why do you think seniors can negotiate with health insurance companies and not get screwed? How will that voucher keep pace with medical inflation?
There are only two ways to save the system. Either raise taxes or allow for a pay as you go system. There are simply not enough taxpayers now employed to sustain the program.
Defend the war mongering! Ryan did a terrible job of saying what, besides a military attack, they wold do differently against Iran.
Yes because a nuclear Iran is a big help in the area. Keep in mind it is the Iranian plan to use their nuclear capabilities to control the other Arab states in the middle east. Are you sure you Iran controlling ALL the middle eastern oil?
Defend the empty promise of closed loopholes that neither Romney nor Ryan can point out.
Um he did. He was quite specific that some loopholes would be closed for high earners. You might have missed it.
Defend the ban on abortion even in cases of rape and incest.
I think the idea is to leave that up to the states and get the federal government out of it entirely.
They can't defend that stuff, they don't want to talk to it while they are wearing their moderate masks, so they whine about Biden's laughs.
No he talked about it and I'm talking to you about it now.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
It's not really all that funny. Are you alright?
"Please explain where a voter ID poll tax has been imposed?"
Voter ID imposes a cost on some voters, which they must pay in order to vote. That cost is in the form of paying for the ID, of paying for the travel to the limited offices providing the ID, and in the time it takes to get the ID.
It's not possible to get the ID without paying these costs. Even where the ID given for free, people still have to pay to get it.
We have several Republicans on tape now saying that the Voter ID requirements should help Rmoney and other Republicants get elected.
BTW, you can add the "voter fraud" schtick to the list of Republican lies. Complete bullshit.
As I said last night in Live-Blogging topic:
Biden reminds me much of our liberal trolls: garage, shiloh, Inga et al., who constantly inject one-liners and emotional heat into the debate with little good faith effort to discuss the issues.
Rusty:
a) You are parroting falsehoods about Medicare. The scare in Medicare is that it is in crisis. The real problem is in runaway cost increases in medical care, overall. And for that Republicants have no answers.
b) "Yes because a nuclear Iran is a big help in the area."
Red herring. Did you watch the debate? No-one is saying to let them have the bomb. Biden said Obama-Biden team have the world united in upholding strong sanctions against Iran. He challenged The Whelp to say what they would do differently. The Whelp was stumped.
c) "I think the idea is to leave that up to the states and get the federal government out of it entirely."
Again, Ryan said in response to the debate question of exceptions in cases of rape or incest that life begins at conception. He never said "let the states decide." this is the same Paul Ryan who has stood cheek to jowl with Todd Akin and even sponsored the radical personhood bill.
I know you don't get the joke. You actually buy all this stuff and don't grasp how crazy it all sounds to the rest of us. The GOP has gone off the deep end and, no, not funny.
Clueless Joe lied about his votes on the war in Iraq, the attacks on the Catholic Church in which they are forced to pay for contraception and abortion and the fact that the ambassador who was murdered asked for increased security before he was killed and dragged through the street.
Ryan lied about his running times in a footrace.
That is way worse.
You win.
"So Rush has "Daddy" issues to go along with his other psychological problems."
Such as drug addiction.
The scare in Medicare is that it is in crisis.
Take that up with the actuaries who indicate that, yeah, it is in really bad shape.
Also, too, Ryan lied about trivial stuff, out of habit, such as his false claim to be a top Marathon runner.
While Biden lies about substantive stuff, like that the State Dept didn't know the Benghazi attack was a terrorist attack or that he didn't vote for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It's not possible to get the ID without paying these costs. Even where the ID given for free, people still have to pay to get it.
...yet they manage to get a ride to the polls. Odd.
If the time needed to get an ID is too much to ask, then perhaps one should ask how they get the gumption to, you know, do the same thing and vote?
BTW, you can add the "voter fraud" schtick to the list of Republican lies. Complete bullshit.
Yet Dems fired a staffer --- for engaging in it. Weird.
Biden said Obama-Biden team have the world united in upholding strong sanctions against Iran.
Working GREAT so far.
Again, Ryan said in response to the debate question of exceptions in cases of rape or incest that life begins at conception. He never said "let the states decide." this is the same Paul Ryan who has stood cheek to jowl with Todd Akin and even sponsored the radical personhood bill.
And the President voted to allow doctors to slaughter babies who survive abortion attempts.
Gee, which one is more extreme?
Oh, and one other famous Republicant lie before I reapply my nose to the grindstone:
Lie: The wealthy are "job creators" who will create more jobs (in USA) if they get more tax cuts. This is a lie along with trickle down economic theory and the nonsense that tax cuts create more revenue than they cost.
They don't the rich don't give money away, they hoard it. They get richer by laying people off, cutting wages and cutting benefits. They also invest in places like China or El Salvador where they can get lower wages.
Plus, the USA has run the experiments on this sorry excuse for rational theory. 10 years of very expensive tax cuts for the rich and what did we get?
Unemployment went through the roof under George W. Bush/Duck Cheney.
You can find a similar chart for federal fiscal deficits.
"How's that trickle down working for ya?"
Ha ha ha!
The Joe Biden we saw last night has been the American Left for the past 50 years.
Uncle Saul always counted on his opponents to be nice guys and the Left always did the same. Ryan killed Joe with kindness and let him hang himself.
Andy R. said...
One of the yahoo articles this morning was something like 'love him or hate him, Biden ruled the night'.
It's weird the way conservatives are all making fun of Biden. It was at best a tie for Ryan, and lots of people think Ryan lost. I saw two polls after, one was a Biden victory, one was a Ryan victory, with I think the Biden victory poll coming from undecided voters.
No, Joe blew it, if only on style. Witness the fact they're sending in the trolls in platoons here.
AlphaLiberal said...
What a bunch of whiners! Notice how Limbaugh or Althouse don't try to defend the many lies and deep bullshit of Paul Ryan that led to the laughs of exasperation from Joe Biden.
How do you know the Lefties know they're losing?
When they start talking about whining?
Jake Diamond said...
I mean, who posts something so stupid?
Jay and edutcher. Reliably
No, we just clean up the mess Diamond always makes.
All Diamond can ever do after that is indulge his fetish for excrement.
"While Biden lies about substantive stuff, like that the State Dept didn't know the Benghazi attack was a terrorist attack or that he didn't vote for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."
He didn't say that. You're just dishonest. He said "we" and he said the intel at first called it as a protest gone violent. Ann has addressed that elsewhere here.
You shift around a lot on the question of abortion. I show how you made a false statement and then you change the subject. Shifty!!
Anybody who gets hair plugs is a liar by his very face.
Well by the top of his head anyway!
Oh and we means only Obama and Biden.
They are not responsible for anything that anyone else in the administration does or says because it is not their fault.
It is clear to everyone with a lick of sense.
I blame Bush.
Baron Zemo said...
Anybody who gets hair plugs is a liar by his very face.
The sainted Reagan died his hair. Does this count?
Alpha:
"They don't the rich don't give money away, they hoard it." [sic]
This kind of explains the entire liberal worldview when it comes to economics. It's bizarro. They really think Mitt Romney has a gigantic mattress that he stuffs his millions under.
Rich people invest their money. Money sitting in some static place is useless to them.
It's weird that you think rich people only do two things with money: Give it away or hoard it. Both options do nothing to benefit the economy. Did it occur to you that they invest the money or spend it (both of which drive economic growth)?
AReasonableMan said...
The sainted Reagan died his hair. Does this count?
No, Reagan dyed his hair--as do most women--does that make Reagan vain or most women?
Plugz "died" his hair--killed it--or his genes did.
Excuse my transitive transgression.
It's never mentioned that working class hero Biden attended one of the most expensive elite high schools in Delaware. Archmere Academy, tuition is $21,825 per year.
His political elders may have old school working class politicos, and he learned his act from them, but he's been a rich kid all the way through.
Personally, Ryan might be lean, but he's no lean, mean fighting machine. What's the saying? Nice guys finish last? Too bad Ron Paul wasn't there to smirk right back at Papa Joe.
Alpha's having a panic attack.
Does anyone else like me have the refrain going on in their head, "We gotta get out of this place, if it's the last thing we ever do."?
Alpha lib
You FAIL, you are proof libs don't understand how the economy works. You supply a graph that disproves your point. You assume the rich stash their money in mattresses. Libs are like Islamist, it's always someone else's fault.
Biden got the joke about not always saying the right thing. So did the audience.
Joke? Joke. Biden was the joke. But, not a very funny one.
Biden's theme song:
I started a joke, which started the whole world crying,
But I didn't see that the joke was on me, oh no.
I started to cry, which started the whole world laughing,
Oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was on me.
I looked at the skies, running my hands over my eyes,
And I fell out of bed, hurting my head from things that I'd said.
Til I finally died, which started the whole world living,
Oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was on me.
I looked at the skies, running my hands over my eyes,
And I fell out of bed, hurting my head from things that I'd said.
Til I finally died, which started the whole world living,
Oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was one me.
Ronnie may have dyed his hair but it was still his hair.
Clueless Joe is combing hair that came from somewhere else...maybe a horse's ass.....wait a minute....I take it back.....that is Joe's hair...nevermind.
You know who else dyes their hair?
Are you calling her a liar?
Just sayn'
As I said before the debate, Ryan was in a tough situation. Biden was going to self destruct and because of their age difference, Ryan had to be very careful not to appear disrespectful.
Rush is right. The left got what they wanted but the right got what they wanted too. Sure, I wanted Ryan to fire back at him, but it probably would have backfired. In hindsight, I don't know how Ryan could have done any better.
Mid-Life Lawyer said...
In hindsight, I don't know how Ryan could have done any better.
The tyranny of low expectations.
Ryan was a gentleman. Even Romney while being aggressive and in control was a gentleman. Biden not so much.
The sainted Reagan died his hair. Does this count?
Did he? His barber at the time stated that Reagan had a small percentage of gray hairs, indicating that his hair color was natural. And, I know one 90 year old woman with a similar Irish heritage who is just now showing some slight graying at the temples.
So, do you have evidence to support your assertion? Or, is this just accepted wisdom on the left?
Not that it really matters - most women by my age (a year older than Ann) dye their hair, and few think that they are that vain.
I do think that this is emblematic of the left these days in this country. They somehow think that this sort of antics are acceptable in order to win. And, yes, that winning is everything, regardless of how they get there. Which means that the goal is power, and power alone.
I am not the first here to remark that the left today is looking more and more like their ideological compatriots in Russia before their revolution, Germany in the 1930s, Venezuela in recent days, etc.
Bruce Hayden said...
Not that it really matters - most women by my age (a year older than Ann) dye their hair, and few think that they are that vain.
No it doesn't matter, which was my point. Someone was claiming previously that Biden's hair plugs meant he was a liar, ipso facto. It was such a stupid argument that I couldn't leave it alone, even if that would have been wiser.
I called it, didn't I?
Biden acted the same way as he did in 2008, which no one seems to have remembered.
Somewhat related: The Taranto Principle.
What is the Taranto Principle? It is a principle laid down by the Wall Street Journal's perceptive editorialist, James Taranto. Taranto, in his column "Best of the Web Today," surveys the media and reports daily on their output with special emphasis on their contradictions, hypocrisies and -- most deliciously -- imbecilities. Like all other thoughtful observers of American media, Taranto recognizes that they are heavily biased toward the Democratic Party and the left in general. Yet, while many who hold that this advances the Democratic Party and the left, Taranto believes that that it has a harmful effect on left-wing politics, often causing left-wing candidates to lose at the polls.
According to the Taranto Principle, the media's failure to hold left-wingers accountable for bad behavior merely encourages the left's bad behavior to the point that its candidates are repellent to ordinary Americans...
According to this variation of the Taranto Principle, the media circulate infamies that encourage leftists to confect greater infamies, thus causing the defamed candidate to cop the sympathy vote. That vote will have consequences in this increasingly bizarre election...
Reading the comments from the usual progs and by God! Rush is right. Sure Biden jazzed up the prog base (although as noted by others if they need to do this at this stage they are desperate). However Biden's manifest assholery and obvious lies equally fired up the conservative base and among independents it probably reinforced just how disastrous this Administration is.
First its debatable if Biden won among the sane viewers, a lot of the polls are tied, but what is clear even if he 'won' what he won is a pyrric victory. I only hope that Obama takes off the mask on Tuesday and goes full Biden. Watching that will be a real treat.
I guess those Feminazis reduced more than Rush's penis because he no longer seems to know how often he embarrasses himself as he tosses chum to his listeners.
Voter ID imposes a cost on some voters, which they must pay in order to vote. That cost is in the form of paying for the ID, of paying for the travel to the limited offices providing the ID, and in the time it takes to get the ID.
It's not possible to get the ID without paying these costs. Even where the ID given for free, people still have to pay to get it.
push-lease. By that logic, needing to take a bus to a polling station would be a cost. Because the bus would cost money, and waiting for the bus to arrive would cost time.
When you think of all the things you need an ID for, you'd think that, in the interst of empowering poor people dems would make a civil rights issue to get people access to ID cards. Without them, I guess certain people are unable to do the most basic things like pick up packages at the post office. Are these people without ID's living underground? Are they mole people?
We've been having this conversation for years. What ever time or cost that you say could be imposed could have been paid long before an election. People should have those ID's a yeah simply in the course of living in the US. But if they don't, the idea that its a hardship to get one is ludicrous.
Every time there's an election, MTV gets out the Rock the vote billboards. You'd think that somewhere along the way somebody somewhere might set up a booth that allows you to get your ID along with providing any other info about elections. Or give people the info needed to get the I'd they'll use to vote, and which will incidentally allow them to function at the most basic level in society.
By the way, when you get your license/ID are you can also register to vote. See how that works?
The Ida that there is some undue hardship being imposed is a myth, and frankly the idea that people don't have ID's they'll need to function in society and you aren't fighting for the principle of getting them that ID so they can function in society means you don't really care about poor people.
AlphaLiberal mocks drug addiction. Progressive thought. Empathy.
Re: abortion...Ryan said let the voters decide. Not the courts. Hard to hear him, because he was being interrupted by Martha at the time.
Bishops point out that Joe in fact lied:
Last night, the following statement was made during the Vice Presidential debate regarding the decision of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to force virtually all employers to include sterilization and contraception, including drugs that may cause abortion, in the health insurance coverage they provide their employees:
“With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution—Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital—none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact. That is a fact.”
This is not a fact. The HHS mandate contains a narrow, four-part exemption for certain “religious employers.” That exemption was made final in February and does not extend to “Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital,” or any other religious charity that offers its services to all, regardless of the faith of those served.
HHS has proposed an additional “accommodation” for religious organizations like these, which HHS itself describes as “non-exempt.” That proposal does not even potentially relieve these organizations from the obligation “to pay for contraception” and “to be a vehicle to get contraception.” They will have to serve as a vehicle, because they will still be forced to provide their employees with health coverage, and that coverage will still have to include sterilization, contraception, and abortifacients. They will have to pay for these things, because the premiums that the organizations (and their employees) are required to pay will still be applied, along with other funds, to cover the cost of these drugs and surgeries.
USCCB continues to urge HHS, in the strongest possible terms, actually to eliminate the various infringements on religious freedom imposed by the mandate.
So, Biden lied about the obligations imposed on catholic hospitals. That is not a fact Joe. That is not a fact.
In fact, isn't it apparent that the more emphatic Joe is about something being truthful the morel likely it is that he is lying through his teeth?
Now I,ll give Joe the benefit of the doubt here. Perhaps he doesn't know the policies of which he speaks. Perhaps no one told him specifically about things in the bills the administration passes so its therefore not a lie when he disembles about it. Just like no one told hi, Joe Biden, personally about the calls for more security therefore he didn't know about it.
"I know you don't get the joke."
A lot of us don't get you, Alpha.
"I know you don't get the joke."
A lot of us don't get you, Alpha.
AlpahLiberal wrote:
It's funny how con's react to direct charges that their leader lie and lie often.
A) Whine
B) Say it is unfair to accuse someone of lying.
C) Desperately avoid the substance in question.
Alpha, you really are a doofus. Ad you've been listening to Ed Shultz too much. And you're a little twerp.
This is supposedly the Vice President of the US who's supposed to come off as level headed and respectful. Ad he can't do anything but come across like a smirking jackass. Remember when al Gore lost the debe because he kept sighing, like an elitist prick? Well how does that look to people watching the debate? Like al gore. Was an elitist twerp.
He could easily have said that Ryan was wrong or lying without coming across like a jackass. You'll notice that plenty of times Ryan disagreed with Joe and almost never had to resort to acting like a twerp.
And what substance in question did Joe use in between all the smirking? there was no substance in question when it came to joe because again he acted like a twerp.
You can't see it be ause that's largely how you act. All snark and no substance. So for you, you think that means that Joe Biden did ok.
But you're a moron!
He could have made the exact same arguments and not acted the fool and he would have been viewed by anyone other than extreme partisans as the better for it.
I'm way behind the curve, because I didn't get a chance to see the VP debate until tonight. Sorry to be late to the party.
Yes, Raddatz was pro-Obama, but not more so than you would expect. Conservatives were shocked because she was less fair than Lehrer, but that's because Lehrer wasn't as pro-Obama as we expected.
Yes, Biden was rude, pushy, and (shall we say) not tethered to the truth. But he wasn't a gibbering idiot, as some conservative commentors claimed.
Ryan did very well (and will do better when he runs to succeed Romney in 2020). Of course there were stupid assertions by Biden that he could have attacked and didn't, but Biden on his own showed that having this guy "a heart beat away from the Presidency" is pretty scary.
Check this out,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t4zFqzmP4Y8
A lifetime cocooned safely away in a series of well paid government jobs, nestled deep in the progressive tank, pampered, privileged, and protected from reality. Times have changed out in the world.
Forty years ago ... when we were still the dominant economic power in the world, because the competition was literally rebuilding from the rubble of WWII ... we could afford to indulge in Progressive policies and employ those like Joe Biden, as described above. And our friends in Europe could go even farther in this regard, because we were making sure they could institute their own health care systems instead of being grafted into the Soviet health care system.
But times HAVE changed ... and the free world no longer has the financial, economic, and demographic cushions that would make it possible (let alone prudent) to continue outsourcing our responsibilities and initiative to cocooned leaders like Joe Biden.
AlphaLiberal said...
Rusty:
a) You are parroting falsehoods about Medicare. The scare in Medicare is that it is in crisis. The real problem is in runaway cost increases in medical care, overall. And for that Republicants have no answers.
lets try this again. In order to sustain medicare like it is today there will have to be a massive payroll increase on everybody who has a job. EVERYBODY. "Taxing the rich" will not provide enough money to sustain the system for another ten years. The system is broke. People who can afford it buy suplementary insurance to cover what medicare doesn't.
The system is broken. It needs to be revamped. If that means vouchers for those that can't afford suplimental insurance then let's go that route. Cost increases occur because there are too amny hands between the consumer and the supplier. Let's simplify that.
b) "Yes because a nuclear Iran is a big help in the area."
Red herring. Did you watch the debate? No-one is saying to let them have the bomb. Biden said Obama-Biden team have the world united in upholding strong sanctions against Iran. He challenged The Whelp to say what they would do differently. The Whelp was stumped.
you don't understand sarcasm. Obama had a n excellent opportunity to dehorn Iran if he had supported the Green Revolution. He instead sided with the Ayatollahs(?). He has no plan.
c) "I think the idea is to leave that up to the states and get the federal government out of it entirely."
Again, Ryan said in response to the debate question of exceptions in cases of rape or incest that life begins at conception. He never said "let the states decide." this is the same Paul Ryan who has stood cheek to jowl with Todd Akin and even sponsored the radical personhood bill.
The ship has sailed. Anything having to do with abortion should be up to the states to decide
I know you don't get the joke. You actually buy all this stuff and don't grasp how crazy it all sounds to the rest of us. The GOP has gone off the deep end and, no, not funny.
Oh. I get the joke. It's sitting in the White House.
Many are referring to Proverbs 29:9 to describe this debate.
I would recommend that our Progressive friends pick up a Bible and also read the following:
Matthew 4:1-11, to understand how to win a debate.
Matthew 23, to understand how to properly apply incivility to a debate - pay particular attention to verses 24 through 28. The trolls here need to pay particular attention to verse 24.
Romans 1:22, to see the future of the Progressive worldview and its adherents.
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