According to several reports in the Arabic media, prominent Muslim clerics have begun to call for the demolition of Egypt's Great Pyramids--or, in the words of Saudi Sheikh Ali bin Said al-Rabi'i, those "symbols of paganism," which Egypt's Salafi party has long planned to cover with wax. Most recently, Bahrain's "Sheikh of Sunni Sheikhs" and President of National Unity, Abd al-Latif al-Mahmoud, called on Egypt's new president, Muhammad Morsi, to "destroy the Pyramids and accomplish what the Sahabi Amr bin al-As could not."The technology now exists, the pyramid-haters observe, framing question to be whether Morsi is "pious" enough "to complete the Islamization process that started under the hands of Egypt's first Islamic conqueror."
This is a reference to the Muslim Prophet Muhammad's companion, Amr bin al-As and his Arabian tribesmen, who invaded and conquered Egypt circa 641. Under al-As and subsequent Muslim rule, many Egyptian antiquities were destroyed as relics of infidelity. While most Western academics argue otherwise, according to early Muslim writers, the great Library of Alexandria itself — deemed a repository of pagan knowledge contradicting the Koran — was destroyed under bin al-As's reign and in compliance with Caliph Omar's command....
UPDATE: Hoax?
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75 comments:
Make it clear that if they destroy them then there is no reason to tolerate them any further. Blockade their ports and let them starve to death.
I've seen enough movies to know what will happen. The rivers will burn. Water will turn to blood. There will be plagues of locusts and flies, and boils will erupt on the skin of thousands.
Islamists are fearful of so much. What a sucky religion to have to pull down the world to prop yourself up.
A certain amount of that is the need to be seen denouncing the proper things.
I would want to know more than that a few stuffy fellows found it useful to try to rile the masses, most of whom must certainly understand the economic value and employment involved.
It's not quite the same thing as the entrance to an old mosque that no one really ever heard of. Pay attention, sure, though I suppose it's one of those "wisdom to know what you can't change" sorts of things and no use getting het up over it, even if the radicals hold that much sway in Egypt.
After all, what's the alternative? Pretty much the whole *point* is to reject outside non-Islamic influence so a scolding from the West is likely to be counter productive, and I don't think a military invasion to save global cultural resources is justified.
...those 'symbols of paganism,' which Egypt's Salafi party has long planned to cover with wax.
??
There must be something missing there.
The Muzzies are in a murdering frenzy again. They NEED to kill some more sacrifices to Black Al the moon god Meteorite in Mecca.
It will pass after the sunnis kill enough shia and the shia kill enough sunnis.
Unfortunately the Arabs in Islam are still set on wiping out the remaining ethnic Egyptians history. Many were taken captive around 600 AD, and called Coptics they have retained Christianity from their conversion in 80 AD, even under severe persecution, where they are periodically attacked and killed as sacrifices to Black Al's latest murder frenzies.
I could use about 400 cu. yds. of ballast. What is my price?
If they are serious about getting rid of the pyramids, maybe they would be willing to sell them rather than simply demolishing them. We could put them back together stone-by-stone in some suitably deserty place, like Las Vegas for instance.
It will be the best MythBusters show ever.
finish the job is right. they took the casement stones already. the Sphinx is doomed.
Dismantling the pyramids will show Egyptian pagans who is in charge, just like blowing up the Buddhas of Bamiyan showed the Afghan Buddhists who was in charge in Afghanistan: Barbarians.
I guess they're unhappy no one is waging war on Islam. Yet.
G Joubert said...
Not all Muslims want to destroy the pyramids.
That's true. Just the ones in power in Egypt where the Pyramids are located.
Is there ANYTHING they do that you won't find a way to downplay?
Couldn't the pyramids and sphinx just be moved to Arizona alongside the London Bridge?
Cross the Great Pyramid off my bucket list.
I can see Choom getting down with this.
Of course, he probably thinks the Pyramids are just outside Glendale.
Islam, the religion of stupid.
That had ought to be really popular with the Egyptians.
They should just draw some boobs on the pyramids and then Ashcroft will come over and throw a big blanket over them. Problem solved!
We should helicopter lift the Mecca completely out from the ground, and tell them they can have it back when they stop asking like assholes.
The radicals have pretty much killed tourism for a generation. When I hear this from the Islamists, I think of Ozymandias.
They may all starve to death before they get around to the pyramids.
We should always remember that the 9/11 attacks were not just the murder of thousands of innocent people. It was also an attempt to attack and destroy symbols that are deemed to compete with Islam. I would say the call to destroy the pyramids is almost exactly analogous to 9/11.
And of course Islam kills innocent people every day. But what really puts them in the papers is when they attack symbols and art. It's an attack on civilization itself, an attack on our world, an attack on our history.
@dbp
I believe several countries tried that with the Buddhas of Bamiyan. Didn't help there with the Taliban, likely wouldn't here either.
Still, I'd imagine economic realities will eventually kick and and Egypt will someone manage to live with those "idolatrous" pyramids once they realize they like being able to buy luxuries like "food".
Andy R. said...
They should just draw some boobs on the pyramids and then Ashcroft will come over and throw a big blanket over them. Problem solved!
This just shows what a square Andy is when it comes to boobs.
"The radicals have pretty much killed tourism for a generation."
Tourism looks like sin to this subgroup of religionists
The pyramids actually do represent something offensive -- exploitation of slaves, making a god out of a despot, etc.
It's just so old that we are not in touch with the horror.
Well the good news is that this idea is being condemned by Muslims around the world in a loud outcry of protest. You can barely hear yourself think.
Hillary and Obama, couldn't get rid of the previous regime that ran Egypt fast enough. They own what you see now. How's Libya doing?
Although looking at my last post, if we can convince them that Autocorrect is somehow a work of Pagan idolatry, I'd support their efforts to destroy it.
Hatman, no one wants to see your face on the side of a pyramid. I'm not sure who the other boob would be.
"The pyramids actually do represent something offensive -- exploitation of slaves"
I think you've seen too many movies.
Also, sometimes Christians destroying culture or art that they don't like.
Andy R. said...
They should just draw some boobs on the pyramids and then Ashcroft will come over and throw a big blanket over them. Problem solved!
Somebody tell Hatman that Ashcroft hasn't been AG for about 8 years.
That, of course, was when we really had an AG.
As for which boobs to draw, should Hatman be wearing his cap?
Aside from the differences in the artistic and historical value of a pyramid v. a peice of transgressive "art". The European vandals are outlaws and the Egyptions are the authorities in that country.
Althouse said: "The pyramids actually do represent something offensive -- exploitation of slaves, making a god out of a despot, etc. "
Of the two things you mentioned, the only one they find offensive today is making a god out of a man. They're still cool with the slave part.
The pyramids actually do represent something offensive -- exploitation of slaves
The current historical consensus is that the pyramid builders were paid professionals, not slaves.
Anyone who mocks those Christians thinking the world is only 6000 years old better pay attention.
They're trying to bring back legit sex slavery, too.
"Of the two things you mentioned, the only one they find offensive today is making a god out of a man. They're still cool with the slave part."
I was talking about us. Why are we so reverent toward monuments to things that we, in fact, do find offensive? Only because we feel totally disconnected from the reality of the past. Why are we so pleased with ourselves about that?
Andy R. said...
Also, sometimes Christians destroying culture or art that they don't like.
You're equating that to destroying the Bamiyan statues or major Egyptian & world history?
I think you tightened your hat too tight.
It's just pathetic now.
Andy R. said...
Also, sometimes Christians destroying culture or art that they don't like.
Even gays* produce offensive expressions of art and parody: link
___________
*not intended as an all-inclusive term.
I was talking about us. Why are we so reverent toward monuments to things that we, in fact, do find offensive? Only because we feel totally disconnected from the reality of the past. Why are we so pleased with ourselves about that?
Why respect many building and monuments built by the Romans, or, closer to home, to the bucolic countryside of the mid-Atlantic seabord states and those further south--land which was surely cleared by slaves?
Why attach past grievances to inanimate objects? What does this attitude foster?
Go ahead Muslims... destroy your own countries. Fine with me!
You can then eat sand as all your oil money runs out. USA will soon be the new OPEC.
That had ought to be really popular with the Egyptians.
Who are the Copts. The Muslims of Egypt are barbarian interlopers.
I was talking about us. Why are we so reverent toward monuments to things that we, in fact, do find offensive? Only because we feel totally disconnected from the reality of the past. Why are we so pleased with ourselves about that?
Simple, Althouse.
Because the brighter of those of us who see the historical context in such structures do not judge them by our present context and mores. To do so is impossible, and frankly, stupid.
The reverence is towards the accomplishment, not the reason for it. The endeavor is what is important. Theses are feats of human ingenuity and engineering, not a treatise on the contemporary morality of the historical age in question to you.
Do you judge the Apollo Program to land men on the moon by the standards of time, or by the fact that it even happened at all?
I marvel at these things because they happened, not because of a tenuous background slavery or war or human sacrifice that might have been the impetus.
Aside from admiration at such feats of engineering, there is historical significance to consider. These pyramids and other artifacts are all that remain of a past civilization. To destroy these things is to effectively say, history is of no consequence. This is in my opinion, barbarism.
Who are the Copts. The Muslims of Egypt are barbarian interlopers.
If you had, instead, written "no white person can be considered a real American", it would actually have been significantly *less* dippy than what you actually wrote. It would still have been a really silly claim to make, of course. Just not nearly AS silly.
Jahiliyyah.
While the hateful bigot is crying about a jar of piss, and calling that "art," you'd think that he would instead be thankful that one of the greatest, if not the greatest, protectors and trustees of Eqyptian antiquities is the Vatican Museums.
You're welcome.
Any criticism I receive from the paradigm case of vacuousness known as Revenant can only be taken as high praise.
Also, Islamists don't like modernity. Western technology. Foreign interference in their country. All the sorts of things symbolized by the Aswan Dam. I think we could help them remedy that. I doubt it would take more than one megaton.
"Not all Muslims want to destroy the pyramids."
We have a winner.
I almost want them to do it. I can't imagine anything else that would wake people up.
They should just draw some boobs on the pyramids and then Ashcroft will come over and throw a big blanket over them. Problem solved!
Ha!
Ashcroft.
Timely!
I read the Turks were grinding the Parthenon statues up to make mortar when Lord Elgin bought them, but that could have been British propaganda.
Ha!
Ashcroft.
Timely!
These are folks who would happily saw his hatted-head off with a serrated steak knife while he watches in the mirror, and instead of being outraged at them, he's busting on Christians and some guy from ten years ago.
And yet, no one here is surprised at how he just does not get it.
"Not all Muslims want to destroy the pyramids."
Yes, but will the ones who don't do anything about it? Their track record is not good.
"And yet, no one here is surprised at how he just does not get it."
By this time, nobody is surprised at the size of the chip on his shoulder.
Returning the whole mideast to 641AD would solve a lot of problems.
And as is always the case, as a country or region collapses, their best and brightest get while the going is good if they can. The US has benefited from that in the past. The worst and the most culpable get out too, but not usually to free countries (exception being Switzerland if they have the wherewithal and are willing to keep a low profile).
The US as the new OPEC comment above brings to mind something said to me by the most brilliant guy I ever met (and I've worked with some smart guys). It was in the way of speculation but gave me pause nonetheless.
His idea was that the US has been paying a very long, multi-administration game since the early 80's concerning oil and the mideast. The US gamed it out and accepted the fact that given the obstinate feudal culture prevailing in the mideast, oil money would eventually poison the politics of the whole region. He believed the US government predicted that fundamentalist regimes would eventually burn the oil fields as a final resistance to the encroachment of western culture. The best the western industrialized nations could do politically and militarily was delay the inevitable while buying as much oil as the region would produce and sell in the interim and preserving their own energy reserves for the future.
Interesting guy and I don't do his idea justice in a blog comment. Wish I'd thought of it actually. Be a great idea for a book if it hasn't been done already.
I was talking about us. Why are we so reverent toward monuments to things that we, in fact, do find offensive? Only because we feel totally disconnected from the reality of the past. Why are we so pleased with ourselves about that?
This is why you are still a liberal in my eyes. Offensive? Really? You're judging something built 4500 years ago by modern ethical standards. Please...
You might as well damn Winston Churchill's accomplishment (saving Western Civ) because he happened to be a drunk and a chauvanist.
People EVOLVE. Cultures and civilizations EVOLVE. Lighten up. Because in 100 years your own legacy will hang in the balance because, despite whatever good you did, you supported the murder of babies in the name of Femanine Liberty.
Interestingly the great Temple Complexes and Pharoah's Tombs( the Pyramids) were not done as slave labor projects at all.
Annually the Nile floods and covers the fertile flood plain areas with mud and moisture to grow one or more abundant irrigated crops per season, which required a huge work force in growing and harvesting season. Fortunately there was surplus food. That became the leverage for Egypt's power in the area (along with up River gold mines). It also gave the well fed work force 4months off each year.
To keep Egypt organizedfor nest saeson, the huge unemployed work force was paid and fed to do shovel ready public works jobs.
That made the workers and their supervisors, the engineers and the artists happy, kept them out of trouble. It also produced a few monuments along the way.
Our own valley of the kings has our monuments near our River, called the Potomac. And in the middle of it all we even erected an Eqyptian Pharoah's Sun God obelisk and called it the City of Washington's Washington Monument.
The cruel Arab Muslims in Egypt are nearly brain dead at anything except Jihad murder and they must rely on the super intelligent ethnic Egyptians to do all the brain work to keep life going. That's why they have let the Copts live this long.
The Goa'uld will not take this lying down.
AHH Islam the religion of piece.
"cubanbob said...
Make it clear that if they destroy them then there is no reason to tolerate them any further. Blockade their ports and let them starve to death."
What requires this repsonse? They're doing something stupid, why don't we quit giving them billions of dollars a year and let it go at that?
"Ann Althouse said...
The pyramids actually do represent something offensive -- exploitation of slaves, making a god out of a despot, etc. "
I've made this point many times about the Great Wall or medieval architecture. Concern about "the poor" always seems to take a back seat to an opportunity to glorify according to the grievance hierachy.
"Original Mike said...
"Not all Muslims want to destroy the pyramids."
Yes, but will the ones who don't do anything about it? Their track record is not good"
This is exactly the right question. Muslim moderates claim the radicals are not acting according to true Islam. So why are there so few moderates fighting the radicals efforts to take over Islam, and why so many "moderates" obstructing others' efforts to do so?
"I was talking about us. Why are we so reverent toward monuments to things that we, in fact, do find offensive?
Why are you speaking of human attitudes towards the pyramids, and antiquity in general, in such simplistic terms? Are the offensive elements the only things the pyramids are monuments to?
The original European Vandals were Arian Christians. They were offended by trinitarian Catholicism, therefore they torn down their churches, thus granting their name to future vandals. They believed that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were three different Gods. That is pretty much what modern day Mormons believe.
And re: The plan itself - what's disturbing is the scope of this manipulation of history. Stalin's gang erased pictures. And sent enemies and dissidents to gulags. Radical Islamicists want to erase entire tracts of physical history. And send people to their graves. How bad is radical Islam when it makes some of the depradations of the Stalinist period in the then USSR look banal in comparison? The only thing the radical islamicists are missing compared to the communists is the large-scale organization and industrialization; they've already got the proselytism down pat.
I don't care. It's their country and their property. Let them tear down the Pyramids and the Sphinx. Just don't give them any financial aid. No more subsidies, no more foreign aid, nothing, nada, zip, zippo, bumpkiss.
Andy R. said...
Also, sometimes Christians destroying culture or art that they don't like.
This is what being a homosexual activist turns you into, a moral relativist who is willing to sacrifice his or her intellectual honesty on the alter of intellectual dishonesty. To point out the wrongs of others to try and satisfy the larger point of the greater wrong while ignoring the greater evil that resides within yourself. Bravo butt-boy, bravo.
How bad is radical Islam when it makes some of the depradations of the Stalinist period in the then USSR look banal in comparison?
Stalin killed tens of millions of his own people.
Let's keep some perspective here. Radical Islam is evil, yes. Dangerous, yes. Remotely as evil or dangerous as Communism, no.
1. Well the unifying thing is the Muslim Brotherhood which is powerful both in Libya and Egypt. Frankly I expect. Libya and Egypt to merge as that is one of the stated desires of the MB. Additionally the Egyptian Army is powerful while Libya doesn't have a credible military force. And Libya has oil money while Egypt is on the verge of starvation.
On top of that the US corn and grain crops are almost literally dying in the fields. Expect food prices here to jump next year. Expect food riots in Egypt by the end of the year unless some significant amount of cash is infused.
A cash starved Egypt can be reined in. An Egypt with money is potentially very dangerous to any number of regimes in the area including the Sauds and Israel.
2. Personally if the Egyptians want to destroy their past, let them. What are you going to do? Have American soldiers bleed to defend a pile of stones?
"Piss Christ" might have been avant garde, say, back in 1986. Today, the act of destroying it was probably the best possible outcome, and created great performance art in the process.
Let me know when one of these "artistes" creates a "Piss Allah." I might almost be impressed.
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