Via Jeralyn at TalkLeft. Also at TalkLeft, screenshots from Loughner's YouTube page, which make him look deranged. His favorite books include "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" — for what it's worth.
Giffords has apparently survived, but a federal district judge, who was also shot, has died:
Appointed by President George H.W. Bush in 1991, Federal Judge John McCarthy Roll was shot and killed today when an assailant opened fire in a Safeway parking lot in Ariz., where Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz. was meeting with constituents.
Just two years ago, he was targeted with death threats -- and given a security detail -- after ruling that a group of illegal immigrants could go forward with a multi-million dollar civil rights lawsuit against a state rancher....
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288 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 288 of 288When Congressman Cantor's office was shot up last year, where was little alpha liberal?
Oh, utterly silent.
That's where.
Also the hanging effigy of Palin in West Hollywood.
Shameless
Ritmo thinks LBJ killed Kennedy.
Color me not surprised.
And leftists wishing for Rush Limbaugh's death.
And the Al Gore acolyte shooting up the Discovery Channel.
Gee, it almost seems as if there is a pattern here...
Sweet Jebus. It's really a race to the bottom here, with at least four strong contenders ... and "J" is waiting for them at the finish line. But with the arrival of Montana Urban Legend and the return of Alpha Liberal, the race is tightening up.
I'm starting to wonder whether Alpha Liberal might actually be Andrew Sullivan. (Ever wonder why you never see the two of them together?) The talking points are there, and Sully apparently reads Althouse's blog ... and they both seem deranged, partisan, impervious to facts, and terminally smug.
HDHouse wrote:
Some of you just shut up. A bunch of people are dead. More are injured. A child died.
Past that there is little to say so save your crap for a while and think about something that actually matters.
Pigs are flying, dogs and cats are living together, and I'm in full agreement with HDHouse.
Despite your attempts to emulate its psychological derangement, you seem to have missed the many portions of Kaczynski's manifesto that railed against "leftists". Where was its mention of the right?
Kaczynski didn't kill politicians.
"I'm starting to wonder whether Alpha Liberal might actually be Andrew Sullivan."
AL is Meade ... boosting page views.
Gooses the revenues you see.
Oswald may have been deranged enough to have acted alone, but it's naive to believe he lacked, er, personal coaching and encouragement.
Yeah AL right wingers beat up Kenneth Gladney, no wait that was SEIU a left wing group.
Andrew Joseph Stack chrashed his plane into the IRS building injuring 13 and killing another besides himself
His suicide note ended with:
“ I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.
The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.
Joe Stack (1956-2010)
02/18/2010
” emphasis mine
Doesn't sound very right wing to me.
According tothis report the man who's finger was bitten off was provoked into a fight by some one from MoveON a left wing organization.
And lets not forget James Lee the man who took hostages at the Discovery Channel building.
I know you're going to bring up his anti illegal immigrant stance, but lets look at other parts of his manifesto.
for instance,
"Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution."
Or this
"All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization
and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it."
I don't think Sarah Palin would approve.
Then there's this
"Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the
whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don't build more housing pollution which destroys the
environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping
using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!
I thought right wingers were global warming DENIERS.
"Those fomenting hate and violence have many defenders and apologists."
Yep and one of them is called Alpha Liberal
Name the last right-winger in American politics whose assassination was encouraged and carried out, Jay?
Reagan took a bullet and lived--so did Wallace.
Providence?
Here's a website that gathered some Bush animus: link
I don't wish for Limbaugh's death. I wish for him to eat himself into a state that allows for the rolls of fat to cover his face and mouth.
But not one where it irreparably coats his coronary arteries.
BTW - about that conversation with the sound man:
We were talking about some really talented mutual friends who, embarrassingly, are just "playing a few funk gigs now and then". I suggested they weren't doing better because they don't have any vision, or their fingers on the pulse of the nation, and resistant to the political changes taking place - that the nation's swinging back to the Right and is waiting for someone or something to reflect that - and he agreed. I even mentioned the possibility of a "President Palin" and he said, "Whoa!" but, again, agreed there needs to be someone who really understands the zeitgeist, but plays good music that's reflective enough to snag the middle and the Left, to open up the culture again. (The success of nutjobs like Kanye West and Lady GaGa proves the old saw that there will never be another Beatles, because the scene is too fractured, is dead.) He said he'd never considered such a thing before:
A musical phenomena of the Right.
It's time.
The anti-Bush video was vile, Chicklet. Bush garnered more hatred across the world than any other politician of recent note, but had anyone acted on that you wouldn't see me defending, justifying or rationalizing it as is occurring here.
I don't defend assassination speech against any American politician, no matter what "artistic" merit anyone would have claimed by that video.
you seem to have missed the many portions of Kaczynski's manifesto that railed against "leftists".
Hysterical. He "railed" against them being not far enough to the left
Um, he was:
1. Anti-capitalist
2. Anti-technology
3. Sincere in his belief that "society" as a collective can take care of our needs.
Those are staples of the modern left.
Additionally, Ted Kacyzinski had a well read copy of Al Gore's book.
And you're an idiot.
Conservative 4: "you wouldn't see me defending, justifying or rationalizing it as is occurring here."
Could you reference the comment(s) rationalizing this shooting?
Thanks.
Jay can't read. What else is new?
I don't defend assassination speech against any American politician,
You don't condemn it when it involves Republicans.
you seem to have missed the many portions of Kaczynski's manifesto that railed against "leftists".
The unibomber was a leftist.
There is no denying this.
Michael:
Check out Florida's pleas of "but they started it!"
Also, Dust Bowl Queen spent months prior to November claiming that armed struggle was on the way, because, of course, the left wants it that way.
Do you not see these utterings as a way to rationalize violence?
Those fomenting hate and violence have many defenders and apologists.
Is someone defending your hate? Your utter and complete blind hatred that prevents you from seeing simple truths.
I just did deny it.
And his text itself refutes that.
But looking at the text Kaczynski wrote would involve "reading" and accurately "quoting" and "citing", which are skills that fail Jay completely.
Dark Eden said...
This really is interesting. I learned that not only are astoundingly cold winters caused by global warming, but left wing killers are caused by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck."
Well then the day wasn't a total loss.
I just did deny it.
And you're a not that bright and easily misled moron.
So of course you did.
And his text itself refutes that.
No it doesn't.
And you can't prove otherwise.
Blogger sucks It kept telling me my last post was too large but posted it anyway deleted posts were me trying to edit it down when I didn't have to.
Name the last right-winger in American politics whose assassination was encouraged and carried out, Jay?
An interesting point, one which had me strolling down memory sewer ...
Being of a certain age, I'm old enough to remember the attempt on the life of Alabama Gov. George Wallace in Laurel, MD in 1972. The shooter was a fellow named Arthur Bremer.
There were the two attempts on the life of President Gerald R. Ford, one by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, the other by Sara Jane Moore.
And then there was the shooting of President Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr. in 1981.
And if memory serves, nobody tried to make political hay out of the assailants' motivations; nobody claimed that Bremer/Fromme/Moore/Hinckley acted because of the pundits they listened to or what TV programs they watched or whose philosophy they followed.
No, they were each held individually responsible for their actions.
Word verification: woodo
But I can read, Jay.
What did you "read" that brought you to your brilliant insights and honest conclusions regarding Kaczynski's manifesto? Was it the part that railed specifically against the "left
but not the right, or are you having trouble with the letters L, E, F, and T today?
And I see your Tourettes is starting up again.
For the record, Jay is not that bright and is easily misled.
Oh, and he can't read.
Ritmo hopes no one notices the fact that the more that states restrict the possession and usage of guns, the more they are used for crime, and the less safe are citizens.
Washington, DC, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit.
Democrat controlled.
Restrictive gun laws.
Highest crime and murder rates.
Let's not forget a judge was kiiled today. Lefties have a history of trying to kill judges. Such as bombing did by a left wing group led by a friend of Barack Obama.
We're not talking about gun laws but about gun nuts, Goth Girl.
Loughner was a patsy. The nature of his video (My Final Words: Jared Lee Loughner) suggests that the plan was for him to die (even if it finished with him shooting himself with the last bullet) and appear to be a lone gunman.
Police are now looking at a second suspect (a 50 year old white male, otherwise unidentified) and believe there may be more.
This is not only a conspiracy, but one apparently sophisticated enough to recruit a certifiable nut with bizarre political leanings to pull the trigger.
It is unraveling because 1) it appears that the Congresswoman may survive and 2) Loeffner was tackled before he could finish emptying his gun.
Stay tuned. The real questions as to who is behind it will be revealed over the next few days.
Ritmo, two commenters in one!
"I declare, Gentlemen, that the more we encourage the possession and usage of guns, the less they will be used!
later
We're not talking about gun laws but about gun nuts"
It is starting to sound more and more like this guy was just your standard liberal/leftie, but mostly harmless young man, who overdid drugs (alcohol poisoning?) and ventured off into schizoid cloud cuckoo land.
My first guess as to who did this: I thought it would be a gunman/assasin from a Mexican drug gang, carrying out orders from some drug kingpin to kill a US judge, and the Congresswoman just was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The first statement is completely consistent with the second, Goth Girl. I said nothing about laws in the first one. The Second Amendment is NOT a positive commandment and it does not say "THOU SHALT PURCHASE AND OWN A GUN". Now stop being a retard and go sulk in your room about Obama the fascist socialist atheist Marxist or whatever you do.
Ha. I had the same first guess as djf. Mostly because a guy who runs an international security firm told my husband yesterday that Mexico is the most dangerous place in the world right now.
...Goth Girl..."
Interesting how leftists attempt to insult by calling people 'girl' and 'gay'.
Of course, they don't really believe the crap they lecture us about.
"The first statement is completely consistent with the second"
Probably true after a few tokes.
I didn't call you a "girl" but a "Goth Girl".
Now I don't know what you had to drink tonight, but it's tiresome having to always apologize to everybody for your acting out your "depressed teenager" phase of political and social development.
I don't understand why we even care whether crazy-boy was left or right. What difference does it make? He's crazy.
The only question now is whether he's just far enough crazy to go on a shooting spree or all the way into "the police keep sneaking into my room and turning off my alarm clock!" territory.
As for this:
Police are now looking at a second suspect (a 50 year old white male, otherwise unidentified) and believe there may be more.
If this info comes from the perp, it indicates that we may be headed into the alarm clock crazy version. Making up a vast conspiracy for which he is the agent. That's classic crazy yarn. Treatable with medication.
Liberal that post as Conservative 4BDH, are you upset that the killer was your fellow liberal? If not, why do you share his hate?
"I didn't call you a "girl" but a "Goth Girl"."
How many joints do you have to smoke before that makes sense, I mean, on average?
Someone upthread mentioned the 9 year old girl. When I first heard about it I wondered what awful circumstance faced the parents. Were they standing a foot away too surprised to shield her? Were they walking out of the store completely unaware? Were they among the unidentified dead or wounded, and if the latter how would they react upon discovering they survived while she did not?
It turns out the parents weren't there. Christy Taylor Green (from memory, spelling probably wrong) went with a neighbor to see the congresswoman. She had just joined the student council and the neighbor invited her to go with her.
I can't imagine a parent's thoughts when finding out such an innocent excursion ended in death. Nor can I imagine the guilt the neighbor must feel (if she survived) having to tell the parents their daughter died while in her care.
They'll never find peace.
I dunno. How many do you smoke before it gets confusing?
Stop being a childish dumbass, Pogo. You're supposed to be a professional in your non-fantasy cartoon life.
PaulV says:Somefeller, your bias was exposed when you said he set out to kill liberals. He shot the congresswoman because he lived in her district and the Safeway was close to his home. Your anger at Florida is and another fact that proves your prejudice.
PaulV - I challenge you to come up with a quote in which I said the shooter in this case set out to kill liberals. You can't, because I never said that, and I specifically stated multiple times that we should withhold speculating on motive until the police come up with some more information.
If you are referring to my 5:37pm post, that post was talking about the Unitarian church shooting in Knoxville, in response to another comment on that and in which the shooter said in his confession and his manifesto who he was targeting. The bias here is yours, coupled with an apparent inability to comprehend what you read.
So you just lose count then, Ritmo?
That might explain all your name changes.
Do you honestly think I'm smoking marijuana and that this is the reason for your inability to separate two clauses with a conjunction?
I've lost track of how old you're trying to pretend you are tonight. I know senility mimics early childhood or even infancy at some point, though. Do let me know when they require the feeding tube, as your loss of swallowing function might be part of a process that requires aides to take the keyboard away from you.
Don't you have some constipation studies to write or something?
"That's classic crazy yarn. Treatable with medication."
Therein lay the rub.
"Classic crazy" is normal. Always WAS normal.
CRAZY? Not so much.
Pogo's a keen investigator. A regular Sherlock Holmes.
Just ask all the constipated patients that he ingeniously cures.
He's a regular Jonas Salk.
"Brad is the anti-Christ, and I know because Satan is communicating with him through that plant."
"Really? Well, tell me how you feel about health care reform."
"Why? I need to tell you about the aliens that are shooting rays into the plant and the roots get in my ears."
"If we can determine the political movement with which your insanity is most closely aligned, then the other political movements will score points."
"..."
"..."
"Your purse just said that the President is collecting people's souls in a camp tent."
"Aha! So you're anti-Obama then! Zing!"
Why don't you try that again, Freeman?
"the more we encourage the possession and usage of guns, the less they will be used!"
Now it's clear. You don't even know what you mean when you write it. No pot involved at all, just Cornel West-level erudition.
No, the third time was the charm.
So let me get this straight?
We have ever increasing numbers of the "crazy normal"... medicated.
And STILL there are assassins?
At least he likes his job and doesn't act like a depressed teenager.
Then again, most teenagers are getting to the point where they're starting to understand satire. But poor Pogo's still stuck at the sarcasm stage.
Clearly Pogo is feeling mentally constipated.
Pogo is the Colonel Klink of Althouse. He knows nussing!!
Clearly, we should ALL be on medication.
Sad, really, that only half of us are.
Ritmo, your next name should be Salieri.
I am always heartened though, that so many see the way for their "classically crazy" children.
Thank you, Pogo. I'll consider that your best attempt at saying something nice and almost, you know, mature.
Ritmo proposed a challenge (or what in his little imagination passes for a challenge). Name the last right-winger in American politics whose assassination was encouraged and carried out.
Here are a few: William McKinley, murdered by avowed anarchist Leon Czolgosz (for the benefit of Ritmo's limited vocabulary "anarchist" means left)
Theodore Roosevelt, the notable founder of American imperialism, was shot by avowed anarchist William Schrenk (left, but not a good pistol shot)
Harry S. Truman, the man who ordered two nuclear strikes against the innocent, struggling to surrender, Japanese just to intimate Stalin, was shot at by two Puerto Rican communists (left again).
Gerald R. Ford, the man who preemptively pardoned the arch-war criminal Richard Nixon experienced two attempted assassinations, one by a hippie and another by a wanna-be hippie (left).
I'm with Freeman and Trooper, here, Ritmo.
I very much doubt this mass murder will reflect on the right or the left. It may indeed turn out this was a plot borne of one extreme or the other, but we'll see soon enough.
I just can't countenance counting coup here. It's unseemly. I don't blame the left, and I don't see where blaming the right is fair either.
We won't really know anything useful for a week or so anyway. The rush to judgement is futile and destructive.
oops for "intimate" please read "intimidate." Spellcheck has its pitfalls.
This appears to be a Journolist-type coordinated attack by the left. They've immediately seized on this as a method of exterminating all opposition. This is their Reichstag fire.
"Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...
Thank you, Pogo. I'll consider that your best attempt at saying something nice and almost, you know, mature."
________________________________
The person who rushed to a blog because he thought a national tragedy would make it easier to insult his political opponents is lecturing others on maturity.
Absolutely no decency. Some people are just worthless.
My comment
...Arizona......
I don't understand why we even care whether crazy-boy was left or right. What difference does it make? He's crazy.
Because when a left-wing crazy kills someone, its because he's crazy. When a right-wing crazy kills someone, its because he's right-wing.
No wonder the government pays for psychological hoo ha.
We appear to be overrun with "classical crazies".
Yeah, and when it's a left-wing troll, the righties want to make him the spokesman for the left. And when it's a right-wing troll, the lefties want to make him a spokesman for the right.
The regulars who post here have shown that people from across the political spectrum can respond to this tragedy with decency.
Anyone seen the Democrats' version of Sarah Palin's crosshairs map?
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
The main distinction, as far as I can tell, is that one of the Democrats' maps includes text that explicitly refers to Republican politicians with words like "target" and "enemy."
Happiness Is A Warm Gun - Bang Bang, Shoot Shoot (Lenin Always Got It Right On The Money)
Lordy, lordy!
Never thought I would see the day.
Mr.Crack Emcee is talking about happiness and........... "warm".
I wouldn't read too much into him being a leftist in '07. From everything we know, he's pretty much an anti-government conspiracy kook. Like the massive percentage of Obama voters who didn't know which party controlled congress in '08, there's a fair chance he was just leftist at the time because Bush represented the government to him.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he had turned into a "radical right-winger" in '09 or so... simply because of Obama.
Here's the Democratic Leadership Committee's "Targeting Strategy" graphic from 2004, captioned in part "Behind enemy lines".
If you scroll down here you can see a DCCC "Targeted Republican" map, I think that one is from 2009.
Especially interesting is Kos himself putting Giffords on a "Target List", because Kos was leading the hordes into mindless faux outrage yesterday on twitter. And there are others. I've read that there's a Kos diary or a post from Kos urging readers to "put a bullseye" on Giffords.
And of course there's the recent post on Kos where the diarist said Giffords was "dead to me", which Kos disappeared yesterday.
That sort of rhetoric is hardly new or unusual. Nobody shot anyone over Palin's target map. People saying that are being fundamentally dishonest, especially a guy like Kos who's website is littered with this sort of thing.
"I wouldn't read too much into him being a leftist ... "
It's interesting that you would say that because within moments of the news of the shooting spree liberal commenters on MetaFilter were already discussing how the Tea Party could be framed for it.
The conspiracy to frame conservatives for the shooting starts almost instantly at 10:45am when commenter T.D. Strange suggested Sarah Palin had "targeted" the Congresswoman.
Then another commenter chimed in: "I have no problem rushing to the conclusion that it's most likely someone driven to violence by a right-wing talk piece like Beck or Malkin."
The conspiracy to frame the Tea Party grew quickly - and right out in the open, when commenter "five fresh fish" comes right out with it:
"Can we turn it into "Tea Baggers are horrible people"? 'cause it sure would be nice if the crazyness were to finally start receding. If there can be a positive outcome from this, the end of right-wing extremism is one I'd support."
To the fascists on the left, no crisis of opportunity can be passed to gin up a political hit job on Republicans or Tea Party members.
If they don't get immediate and forceful pushback, then their talking points go unanswered and people start believing their crazed shit.
Read the conspiracy nuts here and remember that the bodies weren't even cold yet when they started plotting how to frame Sarah Palin:
http://www.metafilter.com/99323/Lone-nut-or-something-worse
The comments here are like many on the blogs elsewhere - full of "aha he mus be a liberal or aha he must be a neo-nazi or aha a conservative gun nut". Can't you see that this is precisely the noise this fellow was listening to in a mind that didn't know where it was.
http://www.opusonemedia.blogspot.com/2011/01/sorrowful-songs-representative-giffords.html
I don't really believe in the medical model of mental illness. I believe it's quite possible the man had a psychotic break. But meds are attributed to violence as often as they are credited for preventing it. What I find interesting on this blog is yesterday's entry about Chinese moms. Whether or not it's true, that Chinese parents always get their children to succeed, what I think we can take away is the role of self-discipline in a life. I just read in the NYT that a classmate of this guy's - age 58 the classmate is - said the guy is "emotionally underdeveloped." I paired that with yesterday's Chinese moms entry.
Yeah, it's probably ridiculous to find a political party to blame. But why did the Daily Kos take down his blurb, and why did Sarah Palin take down her cross-hairs image?
Sorry, but the guy was not on a "side". He was a bat shit Alex Jones groupie (no, Jones had no part in this at all) who had insane conspiracy theories for everything. Its sick to blame this on the right and left. This guy was a special kind of crazy. I am deeply saddened that a child died and hope that the Congresswoman will be able to lead a somewhat normal life.
The comments here are like many on the blogs elsewhere - full of "aha he mus be a liberal or aha he must be a neo-nazi or aha a conservative gun nut". Can't you see that this is precisely the noise this fellow was listening to in a mind that didn't know where it was.
Thanks, House. Sincerely.
Somefeller, you lose because you quoted wiki in your attack on conservatives. Wike is written and edited by those with an agenda. Blame those who attacked the House for reading the Constitution, as congresswomen read the 1st Amendment, the part about peaceful assembly. Why do you tolerate the hatred of the left.
PaulV fails the challenge. He couldn't come up with a quote of mine, and can't even properly cite the one I pointed him to - which said to click through to the source material, because "it is Wikipedia, after all, so it's better to use it as an aggregator for better information". Either you're a troll or a moron. Either way, you fail.
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