Althouse: "It is really good to be here in the land of 10,000 lakes with patriots who love their county... some of you are proudly clinging to your guns and religion."

April 8, 2010

"It is really good to be here in the land of 10,000 lakes with patriots who love their county... some of you are proudly clinging to your guns and religion."

Sarah Palin pumps up Minnesota: "Minnesota, you are awesome. You just rock."

346 comments:

1 – 200 of 346 Newer› Newest»

AllenS said...: She has a good sense of humor. This will make the you know who commenters heads explode.; 4/8/10, 9:02 AM
Opus One Media said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 4/8/10, 9:04 AM
TosaGuy said...: As a former Minnesotan, I have really watched with shame to see my once proud state descend into nanny-state liberalism.

MN has always had a great welfare system, which was affordable to the state because only the truly destitute used it because all others were ashamed enough to not use it if they truly didn't need it.

The folks who attended the rally are the remnants of old Minnesota who understand that they need to help their fellow man when in true need. They are now tired of working their ass off to be someone else's ATM.

Also, traditional Minnesotans don't steal elections -- well maybe they did in the Iron Range.; 4/8/10, 9:09 AM
Kirby Olson said...: I assume the suffragette movement was predominantly a Republican ideal back in the daze of early 1900s?

Anybody got the numbers?; 4/8/10, 9:09 AM
SteveR said...: We like that Minnesota

Opus: cure thyself; 4/8/10, 9:10 AM
Joe said...: someone shoot her. i'm NOT calling for violence. just mercy.

Violent, extremist eliminationist rhetoric! I demand you apologize...

I demand Garage apologize, that Jeremy apologize, that Alpha apologize...

I further demand that any liberal on this board disavow these words, and spend at least 20% of any posting abasing themselves in regards to the violent rheotric espoused by some of their confreres!; 4/8/10, 9:11 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: I further demand that any liberal on this board disavow these words

Don't hold your breath.; 4/8/10, 9:13 AM
AllenS said...: someone shoot her.

Somebody needs to alert the authorities. Then we'll see how funny the comment was.; 4/8/10, 9:14 AM
garage mahal said...: Minnesota, you are awesome. You just rock.

Oh I bet you say that to all the rubes.; 4/8/10, 9:20 AM
Original Mike said...: Big day today.; 4/8/10, 9:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Opus, you're disgusting to even type those words and press "publish."

If Opus can't do the right thing and delete that comment, can we get you do do it, Ann?; 4/8/10, 9:27 AM
traditionalguy said...: She looked a the palm of her hand and it still said,"lift the spirits of the people". This woman does not mess with a good message to us. She has learned to ignore the vortex of negativity from other candidates' news media planted stories designed to cause chaos and confusion. Very good job.; 4/8/10, 9:31 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- Gregory Giusti's 83-year-old mother had not heard that her son had been arrested, but she told ABC7 he has a history of mental problems. She does not think he would be capable of carrying out the threat; he has never owned a gun, and she blames Fox News for getting her son worked up. .

Accused man's mom blames Fox News for behavior

Referring to the fellow arrested for threats on the life of the Speaker of the House.

The new conservative patriotism.

Adding: When the inevitable "liberals are just the same"" bullshit flows, please provide links to stories on liberals arrested for death threats and plans.; 4/8/10, 9:31 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Comment deleted. I have it saved for future reference.; 4/8/10, 9:32 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Hey, Sarah Palin! You know what's patriotic? Abiding by the results of elections!

It's also patriotic to include ALL Americans as part of the American family, not just the wingnuts and foaming conservative base.

Conservatives actually dislike or hate MOST Americans today, but they claim they are the only patriots!

Starter list of Americans hated/scorned by conservatives:
* liberals
* labor unionists
* environmentalists
* feminists
* gays and lesbians,
* poor people,
* peace activists,
* Democrats
* people in big cities
* etc, etc.

Add it all up and conservatives hate/scorn most Americans. Therefore they have ZERO claim to be patriotic Americans!; 4/8/10, 9:35 AM
traditionalguy said...: I thought Opus One's comment was funny. I hear that the RNC is selling CDs of Palin speeches to CIA interrogators if they need to break liberals like Opus One and waterboarding hasn't worked. He did say "just shoot me", right ?; 4/8/10, 9:37 AM
Paddy O said...: Minnesota, you are awesome. You just rock.

She didn't say "Minnesota, you that are awesome. You that rock."

She must see people who rock as something close, something near. By using the vernacular immediacy of 'just' Palin must be expressing her affinity and desire for those who rock. This is something she values.

It is a statement seeking inclusion rather than distance. I would like, she is saying, to be among and with those who rock, and valued by those who are awesome. In this case, she expands her limiting 'just' to include all the state of Minnesota, a grandiose statement that overplays the reality, but in doing this strokes the egos of said Minnesotans. Surely, not all Minnesotans rock and I suspect only a small percentage are actually awesome. Palin's sweeping rhetoric, then, and her use of 'just' as a statement of established, simple fact is crass and pandering.

Everyone in her eyes wins the blue ribbon, gets the trophy. They all rock and are awesome without any bearing on how much they rock or if they are dweebs.

Clearly, Palin has a social leveling agenda behind her populist speech.; 4/8/10, 9:38 AM
Joe said...: Hey, Sarah Palin! You know what's patriotic? Abiding by the results of elections!

We ARE you dunce….but I’ll remember your phrase for future reference, after 2 November 2010…….; 4/8/10, 9:38 AM
Scott said...: Everybody going to your local Tea Party rally on April 15?; 4/8/10, 9:43 AM
Anonymous said...: I came too late to catch Opus's actual comment, but the other comments show me what it was going for.

Seriously, what the hell? Opus, you're a regular. I think that you owe an explanation or apology at the very least. We commenters have memories, you know. I'd love to debate with serious, thoughtful liberals, but we can hardly take anything you say seriously if you're going to call for the shooting of a person for exercising her freedom of speech.

After all of the uproar about Conservatives so much as mentioning the second amendment or saying that Obama's policies are socialistic being read as a call for violence, are you really so self-unaware as to think that this sort of thing is OK (even when calling it "mercy," as if that somehow makes it better)? Are you a conservative moby who just got confused? I mean, come on! What are you thinking?

Given all of that, I find Alpha's off-subject comments quite ironic. (And yes, I hate that what he pointed to happened and hope that he gets help if his mental problems are to blame. Unless Fox News specifically said "You should threaten someone, and here's how to do it," it's idiotic to blame them.)

- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 9:46 AM
Paddy O said...: Palin is like the popular girl inviting all the awesome people, and those who rock, to eat with her and the other awesome people at lunch.

"Join us at this table," Palin says to everyone in Minnesota. "Eat with us."

And if sitcoms are any indication, Minnesota will be filled with how much it rocks and how awesome it is, and it will sit with Palin and other states who rock. Minnesota might give a momentary sad look as Wisconsin realizes it isn't awesome and doesn't rock, so has to eat alone.; 4/8/10, 9:48 AM
garage mahal said...: Tax refunds up 10% this year. Still looking for that on taxdayteaparty.com....; 4/8/10, 9:51 AM
Fred4Pres said...: The Inspector will never stop his pursuit of her. Never.; 4/8/10, 9:53 AM
Anonymous said...: Scott said: "Everybody going to your local Tea Party rally on April 15?"

I am! (in Chattanooga, TN) I've never been to any sort of protest or rally, and never saw it as the sort of thing I would do. I'm planning to go like Althouse, though, and make myself more of a reporter, taking pictures (I have a publication that I can write it up for).

I also plan on deliberately seeking out bad behavior (i.e., "just shoot ___") and documenting it. I'd like to think that, if I find anything that could remotely indicate racism, violence, etc, I'll get a statement from the person, but I'm not the most outgoing person, so we'll see about that. I expect what I find to be interesting.

Not, of course, that anyone would believe me if I look and find nothing.

- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 9:54 AM
The Dude said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 9:54 AM
Scott said...: @TosaGuy:

"As a former Minnesotan, I have really watched with shame to see my once proud state descend into nanny-state liberalism."

...but then in the next graf...

"MN has always had a great welfare system..."

...which is sort of contradictory.

I understand where you're coming from. Minnesota is populated with the sons and daughters of the late 19th century Scandanavian diaspora, who, along with the Irish drunks, the French, and the Ojibwa, make up the colorful cultural pastiche that is the butt of several Coen Brothers movies.

And of course, none of these noble people ever gamed the system. Then came all the Greyhound buses full of Chicago welfare mothers and Somali refugees and Mexicans (not the nice ones that picked corn for Green Giant and wintered in South St. Paul, but those OTHER ones who deal weed), and everything went to hell in a handbasket.

Sure. :); 4/8/10, 9:54 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Glenn Beck is anything BUT a patriot!

With a deadpan, Beck insists that he is not political: “I could give a flying crap about the political process.” Making money, on the other hand, is to be taken very seriously, and controversy is its own coinage. “We’re an entertainment company,” Beck says..

So he is corrupting the political process with his deceit and hyperbole - just to make a buck.

Source = Forbes Magazine.

But this "rodeo clown" has followers in the TP movement who take his baloney seriously. Nothing patriotic about obstructing our nation's progress in solving problems just to grift a few bucks.; 4/8/10, 9:56 AM
traditionalguy said...: The panic combined with anger elicted by Sarah Palin goes on and surprises the liberals that feel it. She will not go away. She is the walking and talking embodiment of a traditional American attitude toward freedom and self government thru leaders elected to preserve America and to benefit the people rather than to destroy America and enslave the people.; 4/8/10, 9:56 AM
Scott said...: Floyd B. Olson and Hubert H. Humphrey -- two Minnesota icons whose lives prove that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.; 4/8/10, 9:58 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Joe waxes idiotic:

We ARE you dunce….but I’ll remember your phrase for future reference, after 2 November 2010……. .

Not so much. The 2008 election decisively rejected Republican policies, which you guys demand we all cling to.

And, you also selectively use polls to say what the American people want. Even though your man Bush said we shouldn't govern by polls and you all aped that rhetoric.

Now, you have a whole different approach.

That shows a lack of integrity.; 4/8/10, 9:59 AM
Joe said...: So he is corrupting the political process with his deceit and hyperbole - just to make a buck.

So what's Rep. Lewis' excuse for corrupting the system, then?; 4/8/10, 10:00 AM
Adam said...: @AlphaLib,

Not all of us take such a scattershot approach to distributing our scorn. For example, I myself prefer to focus on poor, tree-hugging lesbian members of Code Pink who live in big cities and vote for liberal Democrats. There just aren't enough members of labor unions for me to get too worked up about them.

Alas, I may have to add "internet commenters who don't understand intersecting sets" to my list of the scorn-worthy.; 4/8/10, 10:02 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: So this Saturday wingnuts around the country plan to rally with their guns. They chose the anniversary or Timothy McVeigh's bombing of the federal building in OK City.

The same McVeigh who wore a t-shirt on that day with the quote so popular in TP circles, that the tree of liberty must be fertilized with the blood of tyrants and patriots (and, I guess, innocent children).

That is another example of right wingers hating on America.

Principle: Guns have no place in settling policy disputes. Can we agree on this?; 4/8/10, 10:03 AM
Joe said...: Not so much. The 2008 election decisively rejected Republican policies, which you guys demand we all cling to.

Sorry we're respecting the election results...do you see civil disobedience or violent opposition? NO.

What you mean by respecting the election results is doing what YOU want...that's where you twist the language.

So why didn't YOU GUYZ "respect elections" from 2000 to 2006? Why'd you oppose Boooosh?

And finally, Obama won 52% of the vote, not 100% of the districts...like my stae, we didn't vote for him...so we had an election here, Obama LOST. People opposing Obama WON, so I guess they are respecting the election results...just not in a manner in which you approve.; 4/8/10, 10:04 AM
AllenS said...: Meanwhile, there is patriotic veteran AllenS

Adjusted Gross Income $19,257
Taxable Income $9,407
Total Tax $869
Credits $35
Payment Due $834
Tax Rate 4.51%

I paid taxes in WI to the amount of $131. I got all of it back.; 4/8/10, 10:04 AM
Sofa King said...: In what way has Sarah Palin failed to abide by the election results?

Has she attempted to occupy the office of the Vice President? Failed to follow laws enacted following those elections? Disputed the accuracy of the vote tabulation? What?; 4/8/10, 10:05 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Adam:

Alas, I may have to add "internet commenters who don't understand intersecting sets" to my list of the scorn-worthy.

Ha ha. Good one. Doesn't include me, given I just yesterday raised the question of how much these two sets intersect: militia movement and Tea Party crowd.

Care to address that question?

At any rate, I think when you add up all the groups scorned, ripped upon and hated by the right wing, it's a majority of the American people.; 4/8/10, 10:06 AM
Joe said...: So this Saturday wingnuts around the country plan to rally with their guns. They chose the anniversary or Timothy McVeigh's bombing of the federal building in OK City.

It's also the anniversay of the first flight of the AV-8B....does this also mean we support V/STOL a/c?

It's also the anniversay of the first Roman massacre of Celts in the Gallic War, does that also mean that we support Roman Brutality?

It's also the anniversay of...welll you get the message.

I can hardly wait to search this day in history for a day of Coffe Party meetings or a Code Pink Rally, it should prove interesting....; 4/8/10, 10:07 AM
Joe said...: Ha ha. Good one. Doesn't include me, given I just yesterday raised the question of how much these two sets intersect: militia movement and Tea Party crowd.

I'd say in a very small way....I'd say the overlap between Code Pink and those support Jihad was larger?

Your comments welcome....; 4/8/10, 10:09 AM
Sofa King said...: Principle: Guns have no place in settling policy disputes. Can we agree on this?

If you think policy disputes are being "settled" at tea party rallies then I think you may need to re-watch that episode of Schoolhouse Rock on the legislative process.; 4/8/10, 10:09 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Sofa King:

In what way has Sarah Palin failed to abide by the election results? .

I refer to her practice, and that of the larger conservative movement, of supporting the unprecedented obstructionism in the Senate that has stopped the will of the people, as demonstrated in the only poll that matters of November 2008, from being implemented.

There has been nothing like it and she and others support it, selectively pointing to certain opinion polls (ignoring others) as justification for said unprecedented obstructionism.

Watch also the debate on the next Supreme Court appointment and their demands that it be a conservative or it will be filibustered by the minority.

Conservatives are flipping off the American voter.; 4/8/10, 10:09 AM
Pastafarian said...: garage mahal said: "Tax refunds up 10% this year. Still looking for that on taxdayteaparty.com...."

Yes, I had a pretty substantial refund this year.

Because my small business posted s 6-figure loss last year, and it's an S-corp, and that loss flows down to me; so the estimates I made last year far exceeded taxes due.

Gosh, I wonder if any other small businesses posted losses last year. I wonder if that had anything to do with these larger-than-usual refunds.

No, can't be that. Last year was just great for small business. It must just be how awesome President Obama is. It's his awesomeness that resulted in our being able to keep a little more of our money this year.

Jesus, garage, pull your head out of your ass.; 4/8/10, 10:10 AM
paul a'barge said...: Proudly clinging in Texas ... to both.; 4/8/10, 10:13 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Sofa King:

If you think policy disputes are being "settled" at tea party rallies then I think you may need to re-watch that episode of Schoolhouse Rock on the legislative process. .

Dude, I was pretty clearly referring to stories like this:
Michigan Militia plans ‘open carry’ gun tea party to ‘take the stigma out of the word militia.’ .

There are other events planned around the country where people are marching with their guns.

"What could go wrong?"; 4/8/10, 10:13 AM
Anonymous said...: Alpha said: "So he is corrupting the political process with his deceit and hyperbole - just to make a buck."

I doubt many of us have a problem with making a buck. I'm sure that you voluntarily accept a paycheck in exchange for use of your talents as well.

If you're going to make a statement like that, you're going to have to prove deceit and hyperbole, as well as corrupting. While his style is somewhat unique in it's emotionalism, I've not seen any proof that he is deceitful. Without deceit, I'm not sure how you can say that he is corrupting the process by simply speaking about it, regardless of his motivations.
- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 10:14 AM
ObamaNation said...: Adam said: "For example, I myself prefer to focus on poor, tree-hugging lesbian members of Code Pink who live in big cities and vote for liberal Democrats."

You bastard.; 4/8/10, 10:14 AM
Fred4Pres said...: Boy that Beck, in it for a buck. I guess that makes him a....a....capitalist!; 4/8/10, 10:15 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: I'd say in a very small way....I'd say the overlap between Code Pink and those support Jihad was larger?.

Really. I eagerly anticipate your evidence for such a wild assertion.; 4/8/10, 10:15 AM
AllenS said...: garage,

Do you use TurboTax? If so, you could easily do what I did and post what it says for 2009 Federal Tax Return Summary. It's right on the front page. I'm really interested in how much you're supporting the Government.; 4/8/10, 10:15 AM
AllenS said...: You too, AL.; 4/8/10, 10:17 AM
Anonymous said...: "County" is a typo, yes?; 4/8/10, 10:17 AM
paul a'barge said...: Wow. This is priceless.

AlphaLiberal's head is imploding.

Dude. Put it on Youtube. Seriously.

Just priceless.; 4/8/10, 10:18 AM
jesse cornish is an impotent weirdo said...: why would you censor harold's comment, which was clearly satirical, but not venomous comments about a better known, more successful blogger's hiv staus?; 4/8/10, 10:18 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Let's, also, test this idea:
"private armies are anti-American."

Assertion:
* Private armies supplant the peaceful and civil decision-making and enforcement process with one based upon might and threat of brute force.

* In American society, and by the US Constitution, decisions are made by the ballot, not the bullet.

* Guns have not place at public rallies related to policy issues and serve no productive purpose in policy debates.

This should be a concept we all support as Americans, right?; 4/8/10, 10:18 AM
bagoh20 said...: "garage mahal said: "Tax refunds up 10% this year. Still looking for that on taxdayteaparty.com...."

Thank you for giving me my money back that you borrowed all year interest free and used to buy votes so that I will simply pay it all back in the future plus much more. Which will still not be enough to buy all the votes you need. Did I say thanks?; 4/8/10, 10:20 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Fred4Pres:

First, can't believe you still use that handle, but....

Boy that Beck, in it for a buck. I guess that makes him a....a....capitalist! .

Of the lowest order, yes. Profiting from polluting our political discourse. I'd put him just a step above Don Blankenship.; 4/8/10, 10:20 AM
damikesc said...: I'm betting those blogs whining about how mean Althouse's conservative commenters are will loudly condemn a progressive commenter calling for the assassination of Palin.

Heck, I bet Chaz Johnson of LGF will leave the Left over this...; 4/8/10, 10:21 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: paul a'barge said...

Really, nothing, when you think about it. A complete inability to offer any comments of value on the discussion of patriotism.; 4/8/10, 10:21 AM
Joe said...: Really. I eagerly anticipate your evidence for such a wild assertion.

None, just like YOUR wild assertion...

So respect ofr elections, to recap, means doing what Obama wants, even though your party/philosophic persuasion did not adhere tot he same principe from 2000-2006....interesting.

Further "flipping off the voter" really even though the Health Care Bill has been underwater, opinion poll-wise since August 2009...and it STILL is unpopular...who flipped who off, with this Act?; 4/8/10, 10:21 AM
Rialby said...: Why delete that comment? Why not leave it on display for everyone to see? No reason to hide the hate.; 4/8/10, 10:22 AM
Anonymous said...: AL said: "There are other events planned around the country where people are marching with their guns. "What could go wrong?""

Tell you what, if a Tea Partier illegally shoots someone on Sat, we'll apologize directly to you and I'll buy you a beer or something.

Would that make you happy?; 4/8/10, 10:23 AM
ObamaNation said...: AlphaLiberal said: "There are other events planned around the country where people are marching with their guns."

Chilling, isn't it? Guns. GUNS.

It sounds like seditious conspiracy to me.

I heard through the grapevine that a massive number of heavily armed teabaggers are planning on meeting this July, in Camp Perry, Ohio. Something about "National Matches". Gaia knows what these troglodytes will be up to.; 4/8/10, 10:24 AM
Rialby said...: Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it counter-demonstrators who are biting the fingers of Tea Partiers off?; 4/8/10, 10:24 AM
garage mahal said...: bagoh20
But why are returns up this year? More tax credits this year under Obama? Oh my. Doesn't make me want to protest on tax day.; 4/8/10, 10:24 AM
Sofa King said...: I refer to her practice, and that of the larger conservative movement, of supporting the unprecedented obstructionism in the Senate that has stopped the will of the people, as demonstrated in the only poll that matters of November 2008, from being implemented.

It is, and always has been, the pregogative of the minority to make use of any legal methods to frustrate the will of the majority. This is a pretty well-established principle a necessary component of a free society. If you have a problem with what methods are legal, then by all means change the law, but don't feign offense that the minority fails to abandon its positions because it is inconvenient for the majority.

"There are other events planned around the country where people are marching with their guns."

And? You shouldn't feel threatened by this. They are trying to *help* you overcome your fear. The whole reason they are doing this is to prove to you that your irrational fear of lawful activity is needless, and ultimately silly.

The fact is you have it all backwards. This is a show of *non-violence,* the very point of which is to challenge the automatic assumption that armed=dangerous. When they start threatening to use those guns to get the policies you want, then I'll start sharing your concerns. But until then, I say let them exercise their civil rights in peace, and will defend their rights to do so.; 4/8/10, 10:24 AM
Fen said...: I see Alpha's projecting again.

And working up his justification for violence with anti-republican propaganda.; 4/8/10, 10:25 AM
Joe said...: Principle: Guns have no place in settling policy disputes. Can we agree on this?

Interesting...Ceasar might be amused....

Napolean, too....

George Washington might disagree...

Jefferson Davis, might agree, but Lincoln might quibble....

Hitler after 1940, would accept this, but Churchill and DeGualle, not so much...

Ben Gurion, 1948, disagrees, post-1948 agrees....

Mao, says "no."

This is a stupid principle, even in US History...more major disputes have been settled with guns(violence) than you might think. And I forgot Martin Luther and the Pope....or various Caliphs.; 4/8/10, 10:26 AM
Pastafarian said...: garage said: "But why are returns up this year? More tax credits this year under Obama? Oh my. Doesn't make me want to protest on tax day."

Please see my explanation above, garage.; 4/8/10, 10:27 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Lyssa, in response to this statement, I provide the following proof of Glenn Beck's deceit and pollution of our political discourse. I hope you will actually review them.

"If you're going to make a statement like that, you're going to have to prove deceit and hyperbole, as well as corrupting. While his style is somewhat unique in it's emotionalism, I've not seen any proof that he is deceitful. "

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/29/glenn-beck/glenn-beck-claims-science-czar-john-holdren-propos/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/02/glenn-beck/beck-says-less-10-percent-obama-cabinet-members-ha/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/07/glenn-beck/beck-says-labor-leader-most-frequent-white-house-v/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/03/glenn-beck-cash-clunkers-web-site/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/czar-search/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/cash-for-clunkers/

http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m1d23-Factcheck-on-Glenn-Becks-documentary-was-Hitler-more-liberal-or-conservative

But, somehow, I think you will stick your fingers in your ears and say "la la la!" Or some such.; 4/8/10, 10:29 AM
bagoh20 said...: "There are other events planned around the country where people are marching with their guns.

"What could go wrong?"

Maybe nothing. I've never seen a single act of violence at a peaceful convening of people carrying guns, which happens quite a bit if you don't spend all your time at Starbucks.

Lack of armed citizens is a necessity for riotous behavior. Having lived through the LA riots, I saw it first hand. The only safe areas were where citizens had guns. The police (government) were no help to anyone.

Lefties, on the other hand, become dangerous and highly destructive with a bic lighter.; 4/8/10, 10:29 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: Exactly. Conservatives think that domestic US policy disputes can be settled with weaponry.

Groups of people marching with weapons are a threat and an intimidation. It is wrong. Is it "illegal?" I'm not sure and not pushing that argument.

Bad it's bad news.

Very much unpatriotic.; 4/8/10, 10:31 AM
Unknown said...: isnt that quote getting a little old ?

if he had had more time, this is what he was trying to say again.; 4/8/10, 10:32 AM
Titus said...: I did a guy in Minneapolis once. He was hot. His name was Oscar. He actually came out to visit me for a weekend when I lived in NYC. We also met for a weekend in Madison when I was home and went to some gay dance at the student union.

I really liked him. He was very cool and dressed cool. But he lived too far away. I remember him being a good dancer too.

We met at a club called Gay 90's in Minneapolis.

I wonder where Oscar is today?; 4/8/10, 10:32 AM
Titus said...: I did another guy that lived in Hudson, Wisconsin just over the river from Minnesota.

Along those same geographic lines I did a guy from River Falls, Eau Claire, Chippewa Falls and Menomonie as well.

I did not do a guy from Ladysmith, St. Croix Falls or Bloomer though, not that I wouldn't just never met one.; 4/8/10, 10:37 AM
AllenS said...: garage,

Did you get a refund? How much?; 4/8/10, 10:37 AM
Adam said...: I just yesterday raised the question of how much these two sets intersect: militia movement and Tea Party crowd.

Care to address that question?

Sure:

1. I don't know. I doubt that you do, either, though I'm sure you have an unshakable belief about it based on your apparent inability to distinguish between the proposition that "most militiamen approve of the Tea Party" and "most members of the Tea Party approve of militiamen."

2. I do know that the Tea Party is essentially a stratified sample of the general population, thanks to the Gallup organization.

3. As for what a majority of Americans think, it turns out that a supermajority is "angry at government's current policies."; 4/8/10, 10:40 AM
Joe said...: Very much unpatriotic.

DON'T YOU QUESTION MY PATRIOTISM!?!?!?!

Funny how one Constitutional Right, Speech is NOT "unpatriotic" even when it's purveyors are calling for the defeat of the US, but the exercise of another, "The right to keep and BEAR arms" IS....; 4/8/10, 10:40 AM
MadisonMan said...: Did the organizers play any Helen Reddy?; 4/8/10, 10:40 AM
garage mahal said...: Haven't done my taxes yet.; 4/8/10, 10:41 AM
AllenS said...: You have one week, garage. I'll wait for your answer.; 4/8/10, 10:42 AM
Titus said...: Oh I did a guy in Duluth too once.

He was totally weird and I thought he was going to chop me up and fry my liver on the stove.

His house was totally creepy and I was scared but I was horny so I did him.

He had like 10 cats and they were all hanging around purring and brushing their big tails in our face while we were doing it. He told me to watch wear I step because sometimes the cats lay "presents" around the house.

He also, and I am horrified to mention this, had a huge hummel collection that he was very proud of and showed me. Hummels singing, sleading, music box, in the rain with an umbrello, delivering mail. It was painful...but I was horny.

He also had some snow babys Those faces on those snow babys are psychotic.; 4/8/10, 10:43 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Jeez;

Obama, Reid and other Dems can say things like ....the Iraq war is lost, the Surge won't work, the Surge Failed, Bush is a Liar, Bush has betrayed this country....

but liberals get all worked up about almost anything Palin says.

wv= ketsonic [sounds kinda cool]; 4/8/10, 10:43 AM
Michael said...: Tax refunds are up because people are making a lot less money and are being over-withheld. It is not some govt. largess.; 4/8/10, 10:44 AM
Titus said...: I got a refund of over 13k.

They stop taking social security out of my checks in September.

How fab is that?; 4/8/10, 10:46 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: isnt that quote getting a little old ?

No. It is timeless. Obama said what he meant. He was speaking to a group of people that he felt shared his same disdain for the rubes in fly over country and was quite clear. He didn't disguise his dislike and his snobbishness of "the people" as he did in the clip you reference.

He also meant what he said about "spreading the wealth". Taking from those who work and produce and giving to those who don't.

This is why we are proud of clinging to our guns and religion. We are probably going to need both rather soon.

And....to make AL's head explode. I am using every single tax strategy to pay as little income tax as I possibly can. I am also advising my clients on the same. I feel it is my patriotic duty to starve the beast.; 4/8/10, 10:47 AM
Jane said...: I refer to her practice, and that of the larger conservative movement, of supporting the unprecedented obstructionism in the Senate that has stopped the will of the people, as demonstrated in the only poll that matters of November 2008, from being implemented.

We live in a Republic. You whine and moan about guns, but to take away the FACT that we live in a Republic means that YOU, mister, will have to put up or shut up.

Now I know you're a traitor to the constitution by these horrible words of yours.

Read Federalist 10.; 4/8/10, 10:48 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: I went home with this chick once. She had about six cats and her house had nothing but cat hair all over it. It was disgusting but I stayed the night anyway. In the morning, I went to put on my shirt. It was on her bedroom bureau and one of the cats had peed all over it. I hate cats.; 4/8/10, 10:48 AM
Titus said...: I did another guy from Maine once who collected Precious Moments.

I was like "just shoot me now".; 4/8/10, 10:49 AM
garage mahal said...: AllenS
I haven't done my taxes yet because I changed my withholding last year, and I'm certain I will owe. I paid in a total of 15k in state and federal taxes though, if that's what you wanted to know.; 4/8/10, 10:50 AM
bagoh20 said...: "But why are returns up this year? More tax credits this year under Obama? Oh my. Doesn't make me want to protest on tax day."

Me either, lets cut taxes since we agree this is a great thing for the people to have their hard earned money in their own pocket.

Problem is the government takes it from me and gives it in credits to others who have worked less, and contributed less. That why in 2009 47% paid no federal tax. That's using my money to buy votes against my interest. 6 figures worth every year.

That takes money from my charity choices and gives it to the government's pets on the plantation. I earned it, I should decide who to share it with. I know my choices would be more compassionate and help more people in need. But who really cares about that?

And where in the Constitution does it say that all excess money will be collected by the government and redistributed for political purposes?; 4/8/10, 10:52 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: I went to put on my shirt. It was on her bedroom bureau and one of the cats had peed all over it. I hate cats

And the cats know it. That's why they pee on you.

:-D; 4/8/10, 10:52 AM
garage mahal said...: bagoh20
So you want the government to cut taxes, then you complain some people don't pay enough taxes. Which is it?; 4/8/10, 10:54 AM
Titus said...: I hate cats too. They creep me out.

They are so sneaky. And they can be fucking mean.

You can hear them in my neighborhood late at night getting in fights and being all horny.

I did another guy that had one entire area of his living room filled with fucking birds. You could actually walk in the cage which went from ceiling to floor. The bird were constantly clucking and talking, it was fucking gross. He told me I needed to be quiet as to not disturb the birds. I went to the bathroom and the entire bird cage erupted. I was like bitch I got to go.

He told me the birds liked Wagner.; 4/8/10, 10:56 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: DBQ:

Ditto on your tax avoidance strategy. I am also reducing my charity donations because those non-profits are run by libs who support our current regime. They They need to learn Economics 101:

"Non-profit groups won't exist unless there are profitable companies to support them"

wv = gatcheat [how do it know?]; 4/8/10, 10:56 AM
AllenS said...: That's why in 2009 47% paid no federal tax.

That's something that is hard to believe. If you look at what I posted, you'll see that I'm in one of the lower income brackets, and have been since 1999, yet every year I pay Federal taxes. I don't get it. That's why I'm so interested in what garage and AL are paying or getting back.; 4/8/10, 10:57 AM
bagoh20 said...: It's amazing how quickly the Constitution went from being under attack before Obama to now where it is clearly an impediment that Democrats admit they don't care about when it gets in their way.; 4/8/10, 10:57 AM
Joe said...: For those who feel dissent is unpatriotic....
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, "We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!"; 4/8/10, 10:58 AM
AllenS said...: Is it because I'm unable to itemize?; 4/8/10, 10:59 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: AllenS:

You need to adopt a few non-existent kids so you can get the EITC. That has done more to lower the marriage rate than the free love of the 60's and 70's.; 4/8/10, 11:00 AM
mRed said...: In reading Alpha Liberal's bombastic statements, I have to really try to understand how a person could actually make such statements and not feel self ridicule. But then the game plan he/she follows doesn't allow for anything other than attack-attack-attack to try to disrail any real conversation and debate. Then they can puff up their chest and say, "See, they've no answers. I won!"

Hey AL, look up "loyal opposition". The right to desent is there to protect the minority and make sure they're heard.

Now be good and go play with your Legos.; 4/8/10, 11:00 AM
damikesc said...: So, AL, a minority party has no right to oppose the policies of the majority?

Man, where was THIS sentiment just 3 yrs ago? I bet you are livid that Social Security isn't privatized and that courageous jurists like Charles Pickering aren't on the bench, huh?; 4/8/10, 11:01 AM
Scott said...: I think AlphaLiberal needs to come clean about who pays him to post comments on the Althouse blog.; 4/8/10, 11:03 AM
bagoh20 said...: I spend most of my free time working for a non-profit that depends on donations. Nearly everyone else there is an Obama voter. It was sad to see their multiple disappointments in him after the election. I love these people and had many discussion where I warned them in advance. In the last 9 months, none of them ever brings up the subject of Obama except in disappointment. The change from pre-election is stunning.; 4/8/10, 11:04 AM
mRed said...: "I think AlphaLiberal needs to come clean about who pays him to post comments on the Althouse blog."

Gasp! You mean Alpha Lib accepts pay? That would lower him to the level of a running dog Capitalists such a Glen Beck. Such slander that Alpha would actually lower themself to work for pay is a slur which cannot stand. People who work, according to AL settle all there differences with guns and things. Because they are morons. Just ask AL.

Sarah and Michelle really spoke to the hearts of the attendees.; 4/8/10, 11:08 AM
Joan said...: Amazing how after all these years, AlphaLiberal still can't include a functioning hyperlink in his replies.

It's like this:

[a href="URL"]Clickable Text[/a]

- replace square brackets with angle brackets

- replace URL with the link, you know that thing that starts with http:// -- it must be enclosed in the quotes

- Clickable Text will appear underlined and clickable

It's really not that hard, and would vastly increase the chances of anyone actually looking at the sources you post.; 4/8/10, 11:09 AM
AllenS said...: There's some heavy duty deleting going on. Who's putting the turd in the punchbowl?; 4/8/10, 11:10 AM
bagoh20 said...: "So you want the government to cut taxes, then you complain some people don't pay enough taxes. Which is it?"

I have no problem with anybody paying less taxes as long as you don't pick some people to pay the expenses for others who are then rewarded for not contributing anything and continue to do so.

We should all pay less, but that's impossible as long as half pay none. That half is encouraged to grow and the payers are encouraged to shrink. As you would say: "What could go wrong?"

We need to cut spending and taxes. You know this is true. I assume you use the same math as the rest of us. At the very least you understand we spend too much, but you fight to get more spending. Is partisanship really that important to you. Your political allies will abandon you when they go broke too. The whole thing will collapse and only those who know how to really create wealth will help you as they always have. Everything we have comes from them, not the government. Use your mind, the heart is shallow and fickle.; 4/8/10, 11:14 AM
dbp said...: Here is an example for AllenS:

But income tax rates were lowered at every income level. The changes made it relatively easy for families of four making $50,000 to eliminate their income tax liability.

Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.

from yahoo finance; 4/8/10, 11:15 AM
Kirby Olson said...: The Republican was the first to stand for women's suffrage, while the Democrats actively blocked the amendment.

Even today the Democrats wouldn't allow Hillary to front the ticket, or even to be on the ticket, while SP was VP for McCain.

http://us-parties.suite101.com/article.cfm/women_and_the_republican_party

Democrats do like minorities and women but only in positions of inferiority where they can feel special by helping them, and defending them.

Republicans want actual equality.

I think this is why the Tea Party people like Palin. She can hunt, read the Bible, and has a work ethic, rather than being a whiner begging for handouts.; 4/8/10, 11:15 AM
Scott said...: The duties that AlphaLiberal performs as part of his employment include posting comments on the Althouse blog. He's an institutional sock puppet. It's so obvious.; 4/8/10, 11:15 AM
Fred4Pres said...: She even speaks Minnesotan.; 4/8/10, 11:17 AM
AllenS said...: Thanks, dbp. I guess the key word is household/family. Single, over 62 years old, no dependents, no mortgage, no bills...

That's gotta be it.; 4/8/10, 11:20 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: mRed posts vacuously:

"In reading Alpha Liberal's bombastic statements, I have to really try to understand how a person could actually make such statements and not feel self ridicule."

Well, unlike you, I make well-reasoned arguments based on facts and data.

In this case, I said that the use of the filibuster in the Senate has been abused by the minority in ways never before seen in our country's history to thwart the will of the people as demonstrated in November 2008.

You have no response to that so you raise a strawman to diddle with: that I want to suppress speech. No, I want to suppress the abuse of the filibuster and other Republican obstructionism.

Adam quotes a poll from a conservative-leaning pollster, Rasmussen:
'3. As for what a majority of Americans think, it turns out that a supermajority is "angry at government's current policies."'

Adam, that doesn't mean all those people support Bush Republican policies. Many liberals and progressives would be included in that count as we are unhappy with the government's policies being so hostage to the obstructionist minority in the Senate.

I'd look at other polls but coffee break is over.; 4/8/10, 11:22 AM
Joe said...: The duties that AlphaLiberal performs as part of his employment include posting comments on the Althouse blog. He's an institutional sock puppet. It's so obvious.

I just want to know how you get the paying “gig” dood….Look I can be as annoying and insulting as Jeremy, from a liberal/progressive slant…I can be as much an illogical partisan hack as AlphaLiberal…so what’s a guy gotta do to get this Althouse Gig-thingie….

Do they get a flat rate or is it piece work, BTW?; 4/8/10, 11:24 AM
Scott said...: "I'd look at other polls but coffee break is over."

I call bullshit. Your entire day is your "coffee break."; 4/8/10, 11:24 AM
Triangle Man said...: Joan, the inability to hyperlink is rampant. It is shameful illiteracy and it is not limited to AlphaLiberal.; 4/8/10, 11:25 AM
Chris Arabia said...: AL,

Obama: "I don't support gay marriage."

Palin vetoed a bill that sought to deny benefits to partners of state government workers.

You need to step up your game.; 4/8/10, 11:27 AM
Scott said...: You get the gig by (a) working for some K Street lobbyist or nonprofit; or (b) working for a labor union.; 4/8/10, 11:27 AM
kjbe said...: I am also reducing my charity donations because those non-profits are run by libs who support our current regime.

So, you’re withholding helping others with your charitable contributions out of spite? How big of you. Why not become more active in some of these organizations and try to do some real good, instead? And maybe even supplant some of these libs at the top? You know, kill two birds with one stone...

And bagoh – yes, many of us are disappointed, but it’s just disappointment, not the end of the .; 4/8/10, 11:28 AM
TosaGuy said...: Scott,

The ATMs in MN are now open to any and all who want it. I know of plenty of white people where I grew up who now have no shame in putting their hand out even though they do quite well. It is the Hmong and Somalies who who have saved a number of small towns from disappearing through their work ethic and business acumen. The town of Walnut Grove of Little House on the Prairie fame is now 1/2 to 3/4 Hmong and the town is stronger economically than it has been for 40 years.

The part I should have emphasized further in earlier MN was that people would look down upon those who took welfare without needing it. No such shaming was demonstrated to those who truly needed it. It was that sense of shame that kept people honest and provided a system of checks and balances between the people providing the benefit and those using it.

Lots of people think that being judgmental is always a bad thing. It can be taken to far just like everything else, but it can be far more effective than any government agency at policing negative behavior. I would rather have a table full of gossiping Minnesota grandmas shaming their neighbor into not feeding at the government trough than some burnt out caseworker check his application against a formula. This goes for all welfare -- poor, middle-class and business.

That sense of checks and balances is gone, swallowed up by a society that has abandoned all sense personal shame, remorse and guilt.

Society does need curbs -- pure social liberalism, libertarianism and free-market capitalism don't work. There needs to be limits and they need to be at the lowest possible level. For a long time in MN, social liberalism at the gov't level was restrained by the conservatism of the individual and community. In my opinion, it was a useful marriage because it balanced itself out.; 4/8/10, 11:29 AM
Joe said...: In this case, I said that the use of the filibuster in the Senate has been abused by the minority in ways never before seen in our country's history to thwart the will of the people as demonstrated in November 2008.

Unlike from 2000-2006 when the filibuster was used by patriotic America-loving Democrats……..

Alpha’s general theory is if Mitch McConnell did/does it, it’s bad, but if Harry Reid does it, well then it’s OK….it’s argument by definition. Any act is judged by who performed it, not the act itself or the act’s outcomes.

Again, Ms. Althouse, I can do that…I mean if you need a Republican to counter-balance Alpha, I’m down with denouncing Democrat’s when they do things Republicans did. If you need a Liberal denouncing things Republicans do, even though Democrats did the same thing(s); I can do that too. I think you should consider me an attorney…I work hard for my paying clients.; 4/8/10, 11:29 AM
Michael said...: Garage: "So you want the government to cut taxes, then you complain some people don't pay enough taxes. Which is it?"
The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. I think we should expect everyone to pay some Federal Income Tax so that the concept can be fathomed. People paying taxes are less likely to vote for raising taxes and are likely to understand that Govt. benefits are not free. Lower tax rates for everybody encourage investment and responsibility because the people are then able to keep more of their own money and deploy it in ways they find useful or profitable.
As President Obama admitted, lower capital gains rates produce more income to the Govt. than higher rates. People sell more frequently in lower tax environments and tend to hold during higher environments.; 4/8/10, 11:30 AM
Anonymous said...: Alpha (in response to your links)

First, there's no need to insult me or assume what I'm going to do. Don't be an ass.

1) This paragraph says it all:

But with regard to Beck's claim that Holdren "has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population," the text of the book clearly does not support that. We think a thorough reading shows that these were ideas presented as approaches that had been discussed. They were not posed as suggestions or proposals. [read the article for the quotes and see for yourself if they are proposals- Lyssa] In fact, the authors make clear that they did not support coercive means of population control. Certainly, nowhere in the book do the authors advocate for forced abortions. !

[a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/propose"]Propose[/a]: to offer or suggest (a matter, subject, case, etc.) for consideration, acceptance, or action: to propose a new method.
2.to offer (a toast).
3.to suggest: He proposed that a messenger be sent.
4.to present or nominate (a person) for some position, office, membership, etc.
5.to put before oneself as something to be done; design; intend.
6.to present to the mind or attention; state.
7.to propound (a question, riddle, etc.).

[a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/advocate"]Advocate[/a]: to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument; recommend publicly

I assume that Glenn Beck knows the difference between these two words. It's a shame that neither you nor your source understand the same.
--------------------------------
You posted a load of links, and I'm at work, but I'll try to check out the rest tonight. Can I respond to the rest on my blog and email it to you or something?

(I'm actually excited to look into this- I've wondered about it for a while, people say Beck's wrong but almost never back it up. Of course, if the first link you gave me is representative, I can see why.)

BTW, I like how your note under the title of your blog says "You can call me Al." That got a chuckle.

- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 11:39 AM
mRed said...: I win! AL called me vacuous.

"mRed posts vacuously"

Too bad he's on his "coffee break", wink-wink, nod-nod, because then I could thank him directly.

I am so embarrassed that Republicans, the loyal opposition, are using accepted Senate practice to block legislation. Such a straw dog.; 4/8/10, 11:41 AM
Meade said...: “Some of you are proudly clinging to your guns and religion.”

In speaking to a fundraiser group in San Francisco in 2008, Obama brought up again his stereotype of working class Americans for whom he feigned to have sympathy during the Charlie Rose interview Danielle links to.

What was and is revealing about Obama in his use of that stereotype, and what continues to be insulting to Americans of faith and to Americans who hunt and fish, is his notion that only when government no longer takes care of the needs of specific classes of people, only then is it that those people turn to their powers of self-reliance and to their faith in God.

Obama clearly belongs to a class of Americans who put their faith in government above self-reliance and above their own religious values.

If there is one thing that unites members of the so-called Tea Party movement, it is resentment toward being governed by politicians of Obama's class who clearly and repeatedly express disdain for values that are timelessly American.; 4/8/10, 11:45 AM
Scott said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 11:45 AM
paul a'barge said...: AllenS said: There's some heavy duty deleting going on. Who's putting the turd in the punchbowl?

Who's punchbowl is it?; 4/8/10, 11:46 AM
Scott said...: @TosaGuy:

Your point is that Minnesota's government-based social welfare network worked because society shamed most people into not using it.

Maybe. But we live in an era where people have no shame. So Minnesota state government has to change to accommodate the changing values of its citizens.

As for liberarianism not working: It's a government philosophy that hasn't been practiced in the past hundred years (although many would argue that our country was founded on a libertarian model -- which was then called liberalism, go figure), so we don't know that it won't work.

We do, however, know that leftist philosophy doesn't work, even after the ground is soaked with the blood of its opponents. So why don't we go back to the libertarianism of our founders? It's really hard to oppress somebody with freedom.; 4/8/10, 11:46 AM
Roger J. said...: Alpha's knowledge of the historical uses of the filibuster in the United States Senate is as vacuous as his postings. As the sainted Jeremy would say: read more and talk less.; 4/8/10, 11:46 AM
AllenS said...: The Althouse comment punchbowl.

WV: mulemo; 4/8/10, 11:49 AM
Scott said...: What Meade said. :); 4/8/10, 11:50 AM
Paddy O said...: Sarah Palin pumps up comment threads to make them rock and keep them awesome.; 4/8/10, 11:50 AM
kathleen said...: there's no "there" there; 4/8/10, 11:51 AM
Unknown said...: Wasn't it Uncle Saul who said ridicule is one of the most effective weapons available? Looks like dumb ol' Miss Sarah read his book.

garage mahal said...

Minnesota, you are awesome. You just rock.

Oh I bet you say that to all the rubes.

As opposed to, "Yes, We Can. Hope. Change. I can assure you your taxes will not go up by one dime if you make under $250,000"?

AlphaLiberal said...

Hey, Sarah Palin! You know what's patriotic? Abiding by the results of elections!

It's also patriotic to include ALL Americans as part of the American family, not just the wingnuts and foaming conservative base.

Conservatives actually dislike or hate MOST Americans today, but they claim they are the only patriots!

Considering a lot of Conservatives live in big cities, are poor (or are about to be made so), are members of the Democrat Party but hate what it's become over the last forty years, are homosexual, love the Great Outdoors, embrace the idea of feminism without being hypocrites, work as members of unions (whether they wish to be or not), and pray fervently for peace, you may want to revisit that last line.; 4/8/10, 11:53 AM
Scott said...: @lyssalovelyredhead:

It's not all that. AlphaLiberal needed to puke his tired DNC talking points into an Althouse comment thread before he went to lunch, so he could check that off of his "To Do" list. That tends to inflate the number quite a bit.; 4/8/10, 11:53 AM
Scott said...: Hmmm ... that would be a great post topic:

"A day in the life of a sock puppet: What is on AlphaLiberal's to-do list today?"

Then again, this isn't fark.com :); 4/8/10, 11:56 AM
TosaGuy said...: Scott,

I think you and I are debating largely the same thing.

I know that the days I talked of may never return and I was lamenting that loss because it means that one has to pick a side. I pick the conservative path because I see absolutely no sense of restraint on the cost leviathan and it's inherent erosion of a person's sense of self worth on the social liberal side.

My problem with libertarians is that too many disguise as liberty their inner sense of not giving a fuck about their fellow man and having an unrestrained society. I get the intellectual underpinnings of libertarianism and I subscribe to many of them but, not all adherents to libertarianism fully calculate the full spectrum of human nature into the equation.; 4/8/10, 12:03 PM
Alex said...: I notice none of our liberals have denouncing Opus One Media's call for assassinating Sarah Palin. They should be ashamed of themselves.; 4/8/10, 12:11 PM
Anonymous said...: garage mahal: Principle: Guns have no place in settling policy disputes. Can we agree on this?

No, cf. the American Revolution and the 2nd amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. But I don't actually expect you to be that familiar with history.; 4/8/10, 12:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Sorry, I attributed an AlphaLiberal quote to garage mahal. My error!; 4/8/10, 12:13 PM
Alex said...: TosaGuy - so because you hate libertarians, we need to have socialism. Okay....; 4/8/10, 12:14 PM
garage mahal said...: If counter protesters arrive en masse to tea party rallies, packing weapons, is that ok too? Michelle Bachmann said she wanted Minnesotans armed, and dangerous. But she didn't specify who.; 4/8/10, 12:17 PM
pst314 said...: "Hey, Sarah Palin! You know what's patriotic? Abiding by the results of elections!"

In other words, shut up and do as you're told, you damn kulaks.; 4/8/10, 12:24 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Rachel Maddow does great work showing how the James O'Keefe ACORN tapes were highly edited lies and smears, promoted by Glenn Beck, Fox News and other polluters of our public discourse.

What liars!

It's time that O'Keefe and Breitbart release the FULL and UNEDITED tapes!; 4/8/10, 12:24 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: By the way, ACORN was cleared of criminal wrongdoing by prosecutors in matters in these videotapes.

Fucking liars.; 4/8/10, 12:27 PM
jeff said...: "If counter protesters arrive en masse to tea party rallies, packing weapons, is that ok too?"
Depends. Are they there to affirm a constitutional right? Then of course its OK. Why wouldn't it? Are you claiming they have no self control and/or are there to attack someone? Shouldn't you have a better opinion of those on your own side?; 4/8/10, 12:30 PM
damikesc said...: Who cleared them? The Brooklyn DA who is a member of their political party or Jerry Brown, who is a huge supporter?; 4/8/10, 12:30 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: And, to clarify, the video tape from the California interviews have been released by the California AG. There are other tapes from other interviews.

And there are other questions. Who funded this fraudulent hit job on ACORN? Who will they go after next?

What news organizations will post corrections and investigate the tactics used here?

And, O'Keefe. Is he now a felon?; 4/8/10, 12:30 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: damikesc, you withhunter, watch the video. you are continuing to support attack lies and disinformation that have been shown to be false.

The tape that was endlessly broadcast was edited to misrepresent what happened.

For example, one ACORN staff person gathered information from them and, as soon as they left his office, he called the police.

In the right wing, McCarthyite and un-American witch hunt that followed that man lost his job.

What scummy, low life liars.; 4/8/10, 12:33 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: While Minnesota GOP Gov. Tim Pawlenty and Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.) opened for Palin and Bachmann, both quickly faded into the background, unable to compete with their wattage.

I had a boobs flashback when I read that.

Reporting from Fla - this is Lem.. We are on our way back to GA today and then we should be back in NJ by Sat.. thats the plan.; 4/8/10, 12:35 PM
jeff said...: "California Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown said in a report Thursday that the community organizing group ACORN engaged in "highly inappropriate behavior" in the state but violated no criminal law."

AL always leaves that part out. Fucking Liars.; 4/8/10, 12:35 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: I've been wondering about this, too:

"If counter protesters arrive en masse to tea party rallies, packing weapons, is that ok too?"

Jeff says the 2nd amendment only applies to people who agree with him:
"Depends. Are they there to affirm a constitutional right? Then of course its OK."

Given that conservatives are refusing to take part in the constitutionally-mandated census, you guys have no clue what is in the Constitution. But then you are a bunch of ACORN-hating, propaganda-swilling dupes.

It is no right-wing manifesto.; 4/8/10, 12:35 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: The right wing is morally bankrupt. they will not hesitate to lie and smear if it suits their ends.

No where will you find a conservative criticizing the smear job on ACORN. They have no integrity.; 4/8/10, 12:38 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Oops. Wrong link on that Joe Conason story. Here is the link documenting yet more conservative mendacity.; 4/8/10, 12:39 PM
Synova said...: An armed society is a polite society.

I googled that to check it and found a very interesting essay as to why that was so that rejected Heinlein's explanation that it was because of the greater consequences of rude behavior when people were armed.

And that was that a person who chooses to arm his or herself for self-defense also chooses responsibility for the safety of those around him or her.

http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/leaflets/armed.html

I won't insist that this fellow is right on with every detail of what he says, but I think that he makes several good points, including that a person who has a mindset of intervention and has expressed that by going armed, is also more likely to call the police than someone who thinks that guns are bad and cell-phones should be our first and last line of defense.

I think that the difference exists also in those who have studied martial arts. If one is "working out" one is putting one's mind in that place to consider the need for violence in defense of ones self or others. On the rare chance that something really does happen that mental preparation makes action more likely, even if the action is to use a phone to call for help.

That so many people make a virtue of helplessness is troubling. It's made a virtue to be certain that one is not in a position to put ones own self in danger for others. I can't see how this is good for us as a society.

I think that it snowballs, too, when the "good" people avoid responsibility and avoid any situation where they may be called on to intervene and defend others with violence. Because the pool of "armed and dangerous" begins to overlap too closely with "stupid and untrained."

I can only approve of demystifying gun ownership and open-carry and anything else that strengthens the assumption of responsibility that comes with choosing to be armed and the training and discipline of proudly and openly practicing what is, fundamentally, a martial art.; 4/8/10, 12:40 PM
Kirby Olson said...: The Republicans are principled. They will support the rights of babies when they can't even vote. They will support the rights of slaves even though they couldn't vote.

Once the slaves could vote, the Democrats were all for them.

But babies?

Dumpster! They can't vote, so they have no power, so kill them, says the Democratic party.

Republicans are for the babies out of principle. This is because the Republican party is principled first.

Democrats just pander to voting constituencies. Always have, always will.; 4/8/10, 12:45 PM
Trooper York said...: hdhouse who also posts under his business email as Opus One Media is truly an evil man.; 4/8/10, 12:47 PM
Synova said...: You know... when any of the liberals here start to stick up for free speech in a way that implies they have a clue I might listen to other arguments on other matters.

Alpha is a one trick monkey and it's getting boring. There are no principles of freedom or even human dignity... nothing particularly liberal at all in any of it. Nor is there conversation or argument... no listening or considering and offering an alternative view. There is no need to actually *engage* when pulling out yet another canned attack. Therefore no one with integrity need respond to any of it.

Rachel Maddow is Glen Beck in drag... one simply can NOT cite Maddow as legitimate while attempting to prove that Beck is illegitimate. They are either both hacks or neither are hacks.; 4/8/10, 12:50 PM
Opus One Media said...: Michele
I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain.
I'd unravel every riddle for any individ'le,
In trouble or in pain.
Sarah
With the thoughts you'll be thinkin' you could be another Lincoln
If you only had a brain.
Michele
Oh, I could tell you why The ocean's near the shore.
I could think of things I never thunk before.
And then I'd sit, and think some more.
I would not be just a nothin' my head all full of stuffin'
My heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be a ding-a-derry,
If I only had a brain.
Sarah
Ohh! Wonderful!
Why, if our Michele back in Kansas could do that, the crows'd be scared to pieces!
Michele
They would?
Sarah
Yes
Michele
Where's Kansas?
Sarah
That's where I live. And I want to get back there so badly, I'm going all the way to the
Emeralk City to get the Wizard of Oz to help me.
Michele
Do you think if I went wtih you this Wizard would give me some brains?
Sarah
I couldn't say. But even if he didn't you'd be no worse off than you are now.
Michele
Yes, that's true.
Michele
Look - I won't be any trouble, because I don't eat a thing, and I won't try to manage things,
because I can't think. Won't you take me with you?
Sarah
Of course, I will.
Michele
Hooray! We're off to see a Wizard!
Sarah
Oh - well, you're not starting out very well.
Michele
Oh, I'll try! Really, I will.
Sarah
To Oz?
Sarah
To Oz!; 4/8/10, 12:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Alpha, can you please explain what the context was that O'Keefe took out of the Acorn tapes that made everything they were agreeing to help with A-OK?

I understand that they couldn't (in one state) charge them with anything, which doesn't surprise me due to the procedural issues involved, but that doesn't make expressing a willingness to help set up a prostitute, launder money, and help with bringing foreign kids in to turn tricks anything less than morally outrageous, and I'm having a really hard time imagining what context could excuse this. The outrage was moral, not necessarily legal.

I clicked on both your links, and nothing explained what the context was to me. (I can't watch the video, so maybe it did?) I would really like to know. No charges is not good enough for me.

- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 12:53 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Rachel Maddow is Glen Beck in drag...

As a tea party movement enthusiast, I welcome the challenge to convert Maddow ;); 4/8/10, 12:55 PM
bagoh20 said...: ""If counter protesters arrive en masse to tea party rallies, packing weapons, is that ok too?"

Did you mind the New Black Panthers with nightsticks guarding the FREAKING VOTING BOOTHS ON ELECTION DAY?

This actually happened, unlike your fantasy which would be legal but will still never happen.; 4/8/10, 12:55 PM
garage mahal said...: Rachel Maddow is Glen Beck in drag... one simply can NOT cite Maddow as legitimate while attempting to prove that Beck is illegitimate. They are either both hacks or neither are hacks.

One is a mentally unstable paranoid schizophrenic who cries tears in front of Nazi imagery, calling for revolution nightly, and one isn't.; 4/8/10, 12:59 PM
Michael said...: Synova: Alpha is no liberal, he/she is a progressive and there lies the problem. Liberalism foundered about thirty years ago when it abandoned its fierce defense of free speech and open dialog.; 4/8/10, 1:01 PM
Sofa King said...: The fact that AlphaLiberal is threatened and intimidated by citizens lawfully and peacefully exercising their civil rights tells you everything you need to know about him.

And yes, if the counter-protestors wish to peacefully and lawfully carry arms, then they should. They have that right.; 4/8/10, 1:02 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Why delete that comment? Why not leave it on display for everyone to see? No reason to hide the hate."

I considered that, but I don't want an incitement to violence here.

It was, however, an example of that sort of thing coming from the (presumably) liberal side. If anyone needs to know what it was, I have preserved it.; 4/8/10, 1:03 PM
Ann Althouse said...: I do think the commenter only intended to be funny, but nevertheless...; 4/8/10, 1:04 PM
Unknown said...: Meade writes .. " only when government no longer takes care of the needs of specific classes of people, only then is it that those people turn to their powers of self-reliance and to their faith in God."

excepting that first clause, i can see why you read obama's statements in that way. the context isnt provided in the SF audio, but in the CR video, obama is discussing why in hardship cases, [working class people] are voting on faith issues and morality issues rather than on economic issues.

If I get what you are saying on this particular question, its that regardless of the economic situation, the people they are discussing are voting on both the econ policies AND the faith and morality issues, yes ? ... and they see the econ policies of the dems as contrary to the basic values of this country, irrespective of their own economic situation, is this what you believe to be the case ?

i would love to see some voting data to back this up. many people lauded karl rove for his strategy of playing up religious issues in 00 and 04, and citing that as a key factor in Bush's victories. are you claiming that before '00 and '04 that the people obama is discussing were already voting against the dems because of econ policies and morality issues ?

I dont think that is the case.

when you write that obama "puts his faith in government above self-reliance and above their own religious values" are you claiming that because he disagrees with you on some religious interpretations that he is wrong ? are you claiming that he expects the government to save him ? are you claiming that its inconsistent to want a country that provides some semblance of a safety net for people who fall on hard times (health, family hardship) -- and in particular, in a time when many people are having a rough time -- is inconsistent with christian principles ?; 4/8/10, 1:05 PM
garage mahal said...: Did you mind the New Black Panthers with nightsticks guarding the FREAKING VOTING BOOTHS ON ELECTION DAY?

Exercising their free speech and freedom to travel. Did they prevent anyone from entering a voting booth? If carrying a gun to a voting booth is a constitutional right, surely a carrying a nightstick is too.; 4/8/10, 1:08 PM
Synova said...: Lyssa, he's not going to condemn any of that no matter how obviously wrong it was. There is no context that makes what they did morally acceptable. There is no context that makes the tapes anything but glaring evidence that ACORN was promoting dangerous communities on some principle or other. Well meaning people can do destructive things. No context takes away the destructive nature of ACORN that was revealed by the tapes.

If there were Alpha wouldn't have to fall back on the "no criminal charges" claim and pretend that "no criminal charges" means that no one did anything morally outrageous, that no advice was given on how to handle underage prostitutes or game the tax system or anything else.

And Alpha would also not have to fall back, again, on the claim that a single ACORN employee, too fearful of the scary white kids to ask them to leave, called the police after they left the office. If even a single office failed to throw them out it would still be a scandal, but multiple offices did not throw them out. Multiple offices.

But don't expect any give. Those ladies were victims and progressives need victims.

I think it's sad to think of people that way instead of thinking of them as capable and strong, but it is what it is.; 4/8/10, 1:10 PM
JAL said...: I don't think AL knows any conservatives.

He certainly isn't paying attention to the ones on this list who post regularly.; 4/8/10, 1:11 PM
X said...: "If counter protesters arrive en masse to tea party rallies, packing weapons, is that ok too?"

gun control freaks have weapons? who knew!; 4/8/10, 1:14 PM
Unknown said...: Agree with the Professor--while HD House is a genuine idiot, I dont think he meant his "just shoot her" in any ominous sense. That degree of argumentation would stretch HD's limited brain capacity to the max.

Dont say I didnt stick up for you HD! have a great day.; 4/8/10, 1:15 PM
Synova said...: "Synova: Alpha is no liberal, he/she is a progressive and there lies the problem. Liberalism foundered about thirty years ago when it abandoned its fierce defense of free speech and open dialog."

I realize that, and it truly is sad. Free speech, open dialog... it's dangerous now. It's unpatriotic to have opinions and somehow wrong to defend those principles. If liberalism has principles those are foundational. Without them it can't be liberalism, can it.

So I'll try to remember to use the term progressive instead.; 4/8/10, 1:16 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Exercising their free speech and freedom to travel. Did they prevent anyone from entering a voting booth? If carrying a gun to a voting booth is a constitutional right, surely a carrying a nightstick is too."

You clearly have no principles other than partisanship.; 4/8/10, 1:18 PM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 1:18 PM
GMay said...: Dear God, so much partisan hackery, so little time. I got banned over at VC, so maybe I can have fun troll bashing over here since the standards over there are a bit...ahhh, flexible.

Since ACORN is the latest subject, I'll start there (really, the comedy gold upthread is too much to resist, but there are only so many hours in the day).

So Alphaliberal (which means Beta male or Beta female), you're actually defending ACORN? You're citing Salon, as if they're known for their neutrality, who's citing the Brooklyn DA. Yeah, the Democrat who needs to re-establish his street cred. It's not like he's viewed as the most ethical guy, but hey, he's a DEMOCRAT, so he can do no wrong, right? He's got no political motivation at all does he? Naw!

Of course, there was bipartisan support in congress for tossing ACORN off the public teat now wasn't there? You saying it was Andy Brietbart who managed to do that all by his little lonesome? Like it couldn't have anything to do with multiple Democratic AGs in different states filing charges against ACORN for voter registration fraud now could it?

Betas like you are a real hoot. I'm gonna love this site.; 4/8/10, 1:18 PM
AllenS said...: Jews in Germany pre-1940's, unarmed.

Jews in Israel presently, armed.

There is a difference!; 4/8/10, 1:19 PM
damikesc said...: Watched the videos. So who absolved them outside of their fervent supporters? Its not a complex question.

And, AL, if ACORN didn't buy that guys story...why are you? I know Brown does, but he has a drug habit and being a moron as excuses.

And can you spare us your wingnut "sources"?Nobody sane takes Conason seriously as a reporter.; 4/8/10, 1:19 PM
Opus One Media said...: Hey Meade....

would you really feel safe with some of these numnuts on here walking the streets carrying guns because it is their right? honest?; 4/8/10, 1:19 PM
Anonymous said...: Synova,
You know, you're probably right. Maybe I just have low self esteem or something, but I really feel like I should understand the other side's arguments before I can dismiss them rather than just trusting my initial gut reaction. I hate the idea of living in an echo chamber, so I'm always trying to look to make sure that I am getting the whole story.

For the Acorn thing, they (not just Alpha) make it sound as if I'm being lied to and not being given the whole story. I doubt they're right, but I'd like to at least understand their argument so I can say for sure. I cannot. How is it possible that someone can say that something is out of context, but not be able to give the context, and not see anything wrong with that? I simply cannot wrap my head around it. Yet, it will be the dominant memo, and many if not most will shallowly believe it.

I'm at a loss. There simply does not seem to be any thoughtful opposition. I don't like to believe it, but it appears to be true.

- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 1:22 PM
AllenS said...: From what I understand about the ACORN sting is this: had the police conducted the interviews with the ACORN workers there would have been indictments. The fact that two citizens did the sting there were no laws broken. Right?; 4/8/10, 1:26 PM
Scott said...: @TosaGuy:

"My problem with libertarians is that too many disguise as liberty their inner sense of not giving a fuck about their fellow man and having an unrestrained society. I get the intellectual underpinnings of libertarianism and I subscribe to many of them but, not all adherents to libertarianism fully calculate the full spectrum of human nature into the equation."

I don't believe for one second that people are like that, but let's for the sake of argument assume that it's true. Why is it automatically assumed, without question, that government largesse is the best, most appropriate way to deliver social services? In earlier eras when government didn't take on this role, there were many, many private aid societies that shouldered this social responsibility. It's reasonable to assume that they were more flexible and more efficient than a government program could ever be. No waiting six or more months for a determination on Social Security disability benefits -- if you needed help, you got help.

In St Paul, there is a great old charity called The Union Gospel Mission, down at the end of University Ave. Homeless people who want a leg up into self-sufficiency go there. They almost never turn anyone away. I doubt that any government agency could deliver so much good to so many needy people for as little as their budget is. And in fact, no government agency does the kind of work they do.

In a libertarian society, there would be many more institutions like The Union Gospel Mission. More people, as volunteers, would have to become more involved on a personal level with people in need. This would be a good thing! It would change society in wonderful ways; and would be entirely in keeping with the foundational values of community and charity that our country was built on.; 4/8/10, 1:27 PM
KCFleming said...: A nice comment by Palin, but Minnesota hasn't rocked or been awesome for years.

It's a liberal nanny state that sees no problem with going broke trying to look like they are doing good by spending other people's money.

There is a core of folks who reject this, but not enough.

I mean, Al Franken is a Senator fer chrissakes. Sure, he needed a trunkload of found ballots (and the Democrat vote counter Sec. of State in their back pocket) to get over the top, but c'mon.
Al. Franken.
???
Shit.; 4/8/10, 1:28 PM
AllenS said...: Scott,

The Union Gospel Mission is the only charity that I give to.; 4/8/10, 1:29 PM
bagoh20 said...: The armed mob does not exist except in your imagination. But, it's telling that such fantasy is required to argue against conservatives petitioning the Government for a redress of grievances.

You need to fabricate an enemy to attack, because the real one is law abiding and peaceful, even if they were armed, which they are not.; 4/8/10, 1:29 PM
GMay said...: Synova "So I'll try to remember to use the term progressive instead."

I personally like to use the term "Neo-lib" because there's nothing "progressive" about them. Unless you want to talk about progressive debt, progressive income tax, or progressively destroying the education system.

As was briefly mentioned, "Liberal" is a term hijacked by leftists after their philosophies failed. I think "libertarian" is closer these days to what a classical liberal used to be. The sad thing is, leftists have sullied the good name of classical liberals so that even now some real liberals recoil from the term.

Even "progressive" is starting to see the same stain. Within 10 years, the failed leftist movement will invent a new term, equally as arrogant as the term "progressive" to rebrand themselves.

It's like socialists - they don't like to be called socialists because most thinking/educated people know that socialism is a failure. Nevermind that they think, act, talk like ducks, and propose duck-like policies, don't you DARE call 'em a duck.; 4/8/10, 1:30 PM
MadisonMan said...: I do think the commenter only intended to be funny, but nevertheless.

I didn't see the comment, just quoted parts of it, but assumed it was a very badly handled riff on Palin's facebook quote about targeting Senators for re-election.; 4/8/10, 1:32 PM
Roger J. said...: Yo HD--

Can't speak for Meade, but I gotta tell you son, i'd feel safer with them walking around with me that I would with you by my side. What is it about guns that scares you? Anyone been shot at a tea party rally yet? How about that Amy Bishop? Now she did some real damage.; 4/8/10, 1:32 PM
damikesc said...: OOM, given that I never saw them advocate violence...but have seen you do it.

Who should people fear: peaceful protestors or posters advocating assassination?; 4/8/10, 1:33 PM
Synova said...: "Exercising their free speech and freedom to travel. Did they prevent anyone from entering a voting booth? If carrying a gun to a voting booth is a constitutional right, surely a carrying a nightstick is too."

Garage... you know and I know that the Panthers did not carry the night sticks into the voting booths, they stood outside the polling place where people had to walk past and through them to cast their votes while one fellow brandished his nightstick. If someone wearing either a night stick or a firearm or some other weapon went into a voting place, voted, and left again, I'd likely think it was unnecessary and odd, but not a problem. We don't walk through metal detectors... yet. If someone wearing a firearm stood outside the polling place wearing a sort of uniform (or not) and brandishing the weapon it would clearly be voter intimidation. Period. I'm not inconsistent on this at all.

You know and I know that in Ohio the claim of voter intimidation was made on account of poll watchers who intimidated voters by wearing suits. Not guys carrying guns or night sticks, but guys wearing suits.

Now, maybe in the minds of those men with the night sticks, they were helping people to feel more relaxed, safe and secure. Maybe. Maybe they had some notion that there could be trouble on account of Obama... there certainly were a whole lot of people saying rash and intemperate things. Usually it was Dems or progressives recounting some fantasy about what was going to happen when the black man got elected. They were all full of gas, though, proven by the fact that nothing did happen. Really nothing at all. Which I can't help but think was disappointing to a lot of them, particularly Erica Jong. She's my favorite fantasist, bless her heart.

And you know and I know that the carrying of guns in question, here, now, isn't about voting booths at all but about reports of plans by some to attend Tea Parties armed open-carry in order to assert 2nd Amendment rights and demystify fire arms.; 4/8/10, 1:33 PM
garage mahal said...: For the Acorn thing, they (not just Alpha) make it sound as if I'm being lied to and not being given the whole story.

It was a complete farce. Wouldn't meet the publishing standards of collegehumor.com, that's why nobody on the right is even bringing up anymore, or the media, who all went apeshit and got duped by who we all know now, are complete and utter bozos.; 4/8/10, 1:34 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: FYI Garage- Maddow is just a buffed-up, unwrinkled, just slightly less hideous version of Amy Goodman, the commie who does the nightly propaganda for "Democracy Now!".; 4/8/10, 1:35 PM
Meade said...: Hey Meade....

would you really feel safe with some of these numnuts on here walking the streets carrying guns because it is their right? honest?

Hey Oopsus One Media (aka H. D. House)...

Has anyone on here, besides you, even in jest, suggested using violence or targeting a political figure for assassination?; 4/8/10, 1:37 PM
Synova said...: "I personally like to use the term "Neo-lib" because there's nothing "progressive" about them."

Alas, the problem with "neo-liberal" is that it is a global and widely recognized (outside of the US) pro-capitalist pro-market economic movement.

;-); 4/8/10, 1:37 PM
Scott said...: AllenS: God bless you Brother.; 4/8/10, 1:38 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Althouse:

Why don't you start a new thread and ask the commentariat to finish this sentence "When a liberal defends Acorn, it is as bad as if a conservative defended ___________".

wv = wingene; 4/8/10, 1:39 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: ..many people lauded karl rove for his strategy of playing up religious issues in 00 and 04,

Many people lauded candidate Obama playing up race in his race speech also, (where he spoke of his racist white grandma). Somehow Obama's strategery is bold and courageous while Karl's is disingenuous and devious.

Why is that?; 4/8/10, 1:41 PM
GMay said...: "It was a complete farce."

Prove it.

"Wouldn't meet the publishing standards of collegehumor.com..."

It's clear where you get your political knowledge from now.

"...that's why nobody on the right is even bringing up anymore, or the media..."

Don't need to bring it up. Congress had an ovhelmingly bipartisan vote to defund their sorry asses and the Census Bureau told them to get lost. Case closed until they're reincarnated.

"...who all went apeshit and got duped by who we all know now, are complete and utter bozos."

Can I channel Obi Wan Kenobi on this blog? Who's the more bozo-ish, the bozo, or the bozos who vote to defund them and charge them with voter registration fraud in multiple states? (Bonus points if you can name the party affiliation of those involved in all that bozoness.)

Keep defending ACORN. That's rich!; 4/8/10, 1:42 PM
Roger J. said...: Damikesc: you dont understand--HD's has the strenth of ten because his heart is pure--rather like Galahad; 4/8/10, 1:42 PM