Althouse: "It is really good to be here in the land of 10,000 lakes with patriots who love their county... some of you are proudly clinging to your guns and religion."

April 8, 2010

"It is really good to be here in the land of 10,000 lakes with patriots who love their county... some of you are proudly clinging to your guns and religion."

Sarah Palin pumps up Minnesota: "Minnesota, you are awesome. You just rock."

346 comments:

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Anonymous said...: Garage said: "It was a complete farce. Wouldn't meet the publishing standards of collegehumor.com..."

OK. Now explain to me *why* it was a complete farce. I'm not willing to accept that is is just because you say it anymore than I'm willing to accept that it isn't just because Glenn Beck says it.

What was it about the publishing standards that made the conclusions drawn unsound?; 4/8/10, 1:45 PM
damikesc said...: Garage, can you lefties be a little consistent? FL was labeled as trying to deny franchisement to blacks for having a single roadblock within a mile of a voting booth in 2000.; 4/8/10, 1:45 PM
Joe said...: I didn't see the comment, just quoted parts of it, but assumed it was a very badly handled riff on Palin's facebook quote about targeting Senators for re-election.

No and even from the quoted portions you could tell that's not what was being implied.....

Opus called for someone to kill Palin, not a call for violence, just mercy.....

Sorry no, it wasn't a "riff" on Palin's Facebook Page, but thanks for trying.

But you keep this up and I'll start demanding that you apologize, RIGHT NOW, for Opus' violent rhetoric...

Opus since you’ve seen fit to rear your head once again…APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW FOR YOUR VIOLENT ELIMINATIONIST RHETORIC! If you do not I will tar your entire class of confederates as violent extremists!; 4/8/10, 1:45 PM
GMay said...: Synova "Alas, the problem with "neo-liberal" is that it is a global and widely recognized (outside of the US) pro-capitalist pro-market economic movement."

Color me ignorant of something I probably should have known. Oh well, I use "neo-lib" with the same pejorative meaning as the ubiquitous and often ill-defined "neo-con" we were subjected to for the past 9 years.; 4/8/10, 1:47 PM
garage mahal said...: Prove it.

It already has. The fact that a bunch of spineless Democrats went along with it because they are perpetually afraid of what Rush Limbaugh says about them means nothing. It is amazing how Breitfart and his two moronic pranksters actually pulled this off, I will give you that.; 4/8/10, 1:49 PM
Trooper York said...: hdhouse meant what he said. He would be happy to see his political opponents murdered. Especially Sarah Palin. She is not a “real” person to him. She does not exist except as someone who needs to be destroyed. That’s what Stalinists do.

He is truly an evil and contemptible person; 4/8/10, 1:52 PM
garage mahal said...: OK. Now explain to me *why* it was a complete farce.

If you were truly interested, you look it up yourself? The first clue is they never wore any of the pimp/hoe costumes into any of the ACORN locations. Yet they showed them in pimp costumes on the tapes outside the offices, and wore them on Fox news. Why would they do that you suppose?; 4/8/10, 1:55 PM
MadisonMan said...: But you keep this up and I'll start demanding that you apologize, RIGHT NOW, for Opus' violent rhetoric.

Oh yeah, that'll work.

Joe, I've got teens. You've got nothing on them as far as relentless (yet futile) persuasive powers go.; 4/8/10, 1:57 PM
GMay said...: "It already has."

What on Earth was this sentence in response to?

"The fact that a bunch of spineless Democrats went along with it because they are perpetually afraid of what Rush Limbaugh says about them means nothing."

Look Chuckles, I know you're clearly not making a serious point here, but I'll indulge you anyway because you're a funny guy and I want to see what other funny things you have to offer. First, I'll say again: Prove that too - that Democrats are trembling in fear Ruuuuuush Limmmmmbaaaugh *cue scary music*.

Second, let's imagine that the political party in power is so deathly afraid of a radio talkshow host that they vote to appease his insatiable hunger for their very souls. Don't you think that cockanbull idea is disproven by their vote on healthcare? (I eagerly await your comedic response)

"It is amazing how Breitfart and his two moronic pranksters actually pulled this off, I will give you that."

Yes, Breitfart (gosh you're clever!) and Limbaugh exercising the power of their shadow government over the consent of the little guys' right to set up child prostitution rings and voter registration fraud. Quick, say something about Dick Cheney before the black helicopters come get you!; 4/8/10, 2:00 PM
Joe said...: Joe, I've got teens. You've got nothing on them as far as relentless (yet futile) persuasive powers go.

Well I'm constantly brow-beaten aobut violent rightwing nutz and their racist/homophobic diatribes, even when they didn't occur...

I'm just askin' for a level play'n field....

I say until Garage and Alpha apologize for Opus' violent eliminationist rhetoric we shun them...and castigate them as violent extremists!

WV: "dayju" a temporary Jew??? Someone Cedarford would only distrust a little....; 4/8/10, 2:01 PM
KCFleming said...: Every few weeks, Titus becomes hdhouse, and hdhouse becomes Pol Pot.

It'a all My Little Pony and NPR until they run out of intellectual ammo, then off go the masks and out come the long knives.; 4/8/10, 2:01 PM
Roger J. said...: Mad Man--a personal note--a while back I had to put my canine companion down--and you were kind enough to tell me that at another time I would look into the eyes of a new canine companion and see that which I had lost. you were absolutely right and you will forever be a hero to me for that observation--thanks; 4/8/10, 2:01 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: But why are returns up this year? More tax credits this year under Obama? Oh my. Doesn't make me want to protest on tax day.

Let me help you out garage cause I know numbers aren't you bag.

We're running a national debt of over $10 trillion.

We have a current budget deficit of $1.5 trillion dollars.

Unlike you, those idiot teabaggers know that 1) the debt has to be paid and 2) you can't run a trillion dollar deficit indefinitely and 3) they are going to have to be taxed more to pay for 1) and 2) which means a)Obama, like you doesn't understand numbers or b)will be instituting a massive tax increase (or imposition of a VAT) next year or c) all of the above.

Or do you just think Obama is waiting for the next rainbow and will ride his unicorn to get the pot of gold?

Seriously garage, are you even remotely aware of how far down the rabbit hole we are in terms of national debt? Do you even give a shit?; 4/8/10, 2:02 PM
Trooper York said...: Don't worry Roger. The Giants will win the division now that that AJ's Iggles dumped McNabb.

Right now the Giants are too busy laughing at Tiki Barber to concerntrate on the draft. But we will be ready when the time comes.; 4/8/10, 2:04 PM
TosaGuy said...: Scott,

Agree with you 100 percent -- thousands of Burke's little platoons are infinitely better than an army of gov't bureaucrats.

Such platoons made communities closer and more self-reliant.

Liberalism has destroyed or co-opted these institutions in its quest for power -- turning community cooperation for the common good into a crass exchange of money for votes and condemning recipients to a lifetime in their caste.

Please don't confuse my description of an earlier era as an endorsement of the warped, tyrannical practices of today's social welfare policy.

With regard to my kick at libertarians. I'm sorry, I have met too many who proclaim the position of getting gov't out of everything, but don't lift a finger in their communities. They are not involved with a church, civic group or other institution whose good works can and should replace the gov't programs their ideology believes should not exist. That is as bad for society as a whole as liberals whose sole activity in promoting their concept of social justice is to vote for politicians who will redistribute it.; 4/8/10, 2:05 PM
mtrobertsattorney said...: Obama has now laid claim to the power and authority to order the assassination of an Ameican citizen on sight, without benefit of any indictment or trial. See the case of Anwaral-Awlaki.

Does this mean that the issue of armed citizens now takes on a new meaning?

And by the way, does Alpha think that this new power claimed by Obama is a necessary part of liberal/progressive doctrine?; 4/8/10, 2:05 PM
Roger J. said...: Troop: I do wish the giants well--they preserved the dolphins unbeaten season--all power and glory to them--and best wishes; 4/8/10, 2:05 PM
MadisonMan said...: RogerJ -- thanks. I'm happy to read it happened to you too!; 4/8/10, 2:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Garage said: "If you were truly interested, you look it up yourself? The first clue is they never wore any of the pimp/hoe costumes into any of the ACORN locations."

Seriously, that's your first and best evidence? Alpha said that they were taken out of context and dishonestly edited. I want to see the context that makes it morally OK for an organization purportedly devoted to helping people to express agreement to assist prostitution, evade taxes, and set up child brothels.

Obviously they didn't wear the costumes inside the offices- I watched the video where they were inside the offices. That was clearly a humerous flourish in the intro-type segments. I was aware of that on the first viewing, long before I heard any opposition to it. That hardly changes the facts that they discussed turning "tricks" and bringing in kids.

I clicked on Alpha's links to try to look it up and they told me nothing other than the conclusory statements that you and he gave me. If I google "Acorn tapes" or similar, I'm going to get thousands of hits. If you are so certain that the dishonesty is evident, that this was a horrible frame job and the Acorn people are blameless, what is your evidence?

- Lyssa; 4/8/10, 2:10 PM
TosaGuy said...: But with regard to all of this, there is one thing that unites all Minnesotans and puts Obama clearly in the enemy camp.

The Chicago White Sox are evil and must be destroyed.; 4/8/10, 2:11 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Hey Meade....

would you really feel safe with some of these numnuts on here walking the streets carrying guns because it is their right? honest?

Wait....this is coming from the same Opus (hdhouse) who was hoping for the assasination of a public figure?

Honestly his has to be a joke because not even hdhouse can be this stupid. Well I don't think so anyway.

Never mind, its hdhouse so yeah he actually is that stupid.; 4/8/10, 2:11 PM
GMay said...: "And by the way, does Alpha think that this new power claimed by Obama is a necessary part of liberal/progressive doctrine?"

Oh heavens no. I'm sure he'll be screaming about Obama shredding the Constitution and running roughshod over our civil liberties in 3...2...1...; 4/8/10, 2:12 PM
Scott said...: Shameless Plug:

If you would like to find a local charity that has the same effective approach as The Union Gospel Mission of St Paul, check out the web site of The Association of Gospel Rescue Missions.; 4/8/10, 2:17 PM
Scott said...: @TosaGuy 2:05 p.m.: We're on the same page, for sure.; 4/8/10, 2:21 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Oh and garage, I'm not getting a tax refund this year just like I didn't get one last year and the year before that and the one before that and then there was the one year we had to pay extra.

So I will bask in the glow of my super duper ultra fabulous patriotism while the rest of the un-American tax refund recipients enjoy themselves.

/sarc off; 4/8/10, 2:21 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: OT.. a little maybe,

Tea Party Express to rally against Michigan's Stupak; 4/8/10, 2:26 PM
Brian said...: Yeah, that's the only objection I heard about O'Keefe and Hannah Giles, that they didn't actually wear the pimp-ho costume into the ACORN offices. So, they did that bit of acting to set up the videos, where they talked to ACORN people about bringing in underage Honduran girls as prostitutes, and needed advice on how to get funding to do it.

Is this the whole outrage, AL and Garage? That the ACORN people were duped into treating Hanah and O'Keefe as serious pimp-n-ho because they wore normal business clothes?; 4/8/10, 2:27 PM
Scott said...: @TosaGuy 2:11: Feh. I usually only follow Minnesota sports teams when they're winning.

The only exception was during the 1988-92 season of the Minnesota Vikings, when I had the hots for #99, defensive end Al Noga. But then I found out that he was straight, and that burst my bubble. Damn!

Junior Seau is a hot one too. For some reason the big Samoan muscle guys turn my head. :); 4/8/10, 2:29 PM
Michael said...: Garage: They wore the crazy costumes in what is known as a "trailer," the part that goes before the main part. You might have drawn the conclusion that they wore the costumes into the ACORN offices but they never said they did, you just assumed they did because you think the employees of ACORN are so stupid they would have fallen for the obviously clownish outfits. The tricksters dressed like normal people when they pulled off their scam with ACORN. Your presumptions regarding the whole scam illustrates your low opinion of the people on the ACORN side.; 4/8/10, 2:41 PM
KCFleming said...: One huge downside to Minnesota is the presence of the soporific Prairie Home Companion.

It's like eating an entire loaf of white bread in one hour.; 4/8/10, 2:45 PM
garage mahal said...: I want to see the context that makes it morally OK for an organization purportedly devoted to helping people to express agreement to assist prostitution, evade taxes, and set up child brothels.

This did all this, and no charges filed i? All a vast multi state left wing conspiracy to cover all these crimes? It's all on tape!; 4/8/10, 2:49 PM
Methadras said...: AlphaLiberal said...

Principle: Guns have no place in settling policy disputes. Can we agree on this?

Does your idiocy know no bounds. It was the gun that helped set up the Constitutional Representative Republic we have now and it is enumerated in our 2nd amendment, right below the 1st, just in case that one fails. It's amazing that you dare show your face considering the aberrant lies you spew out here on a daily basis. You live a lie, little man, and then you try to dole our your Marxist tripe as truth.; 4/8/10, 2:52 PM
Opus One Media said...: lyssalovelyredhead said...
I came too late to catch Opus's actual comment, but the other comments show me what it was going for.

Seriously, what the hell? Opus, you're a regular. I think that you owe an explanation or apology at the very least. We commenters have memories, you know. I'd love to debate with serious, thoughtful liberals, but we can hardly take anything you say seriously if you're going to call for the shooting of a person for exercising her freedom of speech."

1. no apologies offered or given.
2. It was snarky and funny but best deleted as Ann did as it seems there is a faction that can't tell irony from a pot or a kettle. ooops did it again.; 4/8/10, 3:01 PM
Scott said...: @Pogo: Garrison Keillor is not a nice man. If you look "smug" up in the dictionary, you'll find his face right there.

In spite of my admonition to another of the comment groundlings not to shun people with different views, it does creep me out that these days he has been attending the church of my youth. If I go back there and I see him, I anticipate sitting on the opposite side so I don't have to pass the peace to him.; 4/8/10, 3:01 PM
Opus One Media said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 3:01 PM
Michael Haz said...: I see where Harold House, that very brave man, has changed his company's web page. Can't view it now, without authorization of some sort.

Used to be that he listed his clients by name. I guess he doesn't want any of them find out that he called for the assassination of Sarah Palin. Might hurt business.

He's just an angry, old, bitter socialist who lives among others of his type on Long Island, in an area where, God forbid, the proles can't afford to live.

As of this writing, AlphaLiberal has posted 21 comments, none of which directly responded to Althouse's original post.

If I may offer a suggestion to the other commenters, simply do not respond to Alpha, Jeremy, or any of the other trolls who simply post up crap for the purpose of irritating thoughtful commenters.

There is nothing to be gained by responding to those who are purposefully engaged in the business of flaming a blog.; 4/8/10, 3:04 PM
Alex said...: Opus One Media - but I'm sure if I went on Huffington post and jokingly talked about assassination Obama, they would *totally* get my humor, right?; 4/8/10, 3:05 PM
Joe said...: 2. It was snarky and funny but best deleted as Ann did as it seems there is a faction that can't tell irony from a pot or a kettle. ooops did it again.

Just applying your own rules to you...."targeting" Democrats is violent rhetoric...well then asking someone to shoot someone, well that must go too.

Just applying Alinsky's Rules here, please lie up to your own standards.; 4/8/10, 3:07 PM
Titus said...: Meadsy Poo is such a republican and therefore I love him to death.; 4/8/10, 3:07 PM
Opus One Media said...: Methadras said...
"Does your idiocy know no bounds. It was the gun that helped set up the Constitutional Representative Republic we have now and it is enumerated in our 2nd amendment, right below the 1st,.."

Well I for one am very glad we got that straightened out.; 4/8/10, 3:09 PM
Opus One Media said...: Well it was funny in a rightish sort of way.; 4/8/10, 3:10 PM
Trooper York said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 3:11 PM
Titus said...: Meadsy Poo is sucking off his state/government employee wife.

That is totally gross.; 4/8/10, 3:12 PM
Trooper York said...: hdhouse is not stupid. Just evil and contemptuous of his fellow citizens. Always was and always will be.

He was not joking. He meant it even though he is backpedaling like the bitch that he has so often showed himself to be.

If you want to see the face of the enemy....it is the wrinkled drool covered visage of hdhouse; 4/8/10, 3:13 PM
Michael Haz said...: Meadsy Poo is 50 something and doesn't work and that is fabulous. He gets his insurance from his wife who works for the state.

Individual freedom and liberty and all that shit

Titus, your jealousy is so unbecoming.; 4/8/10, 3:13 PM
Joe said...: Well it was funny in a rightish sort of way.

REALLY, sounds more like Michael Moore, to me, but mayhap he's a closet rightie.; 4/8/10, 3:13 PM
Scott said...: It's amazing how the trolls can steer a comment thread right into the toilet.

Gotta love free speech.; 4/8/10, 3:23 PM
Matt said...: ACORN has not broken any laws in the last five years, according to a Congressional Research Service...
The report found no evidence that voters attempting to cast ballots at the polls had been improperly registered by Acorn....The report also said that a sting-style effort to publicize the group’s allegedly illegal activities, may have broken state laws.
Rachel Maddow has a good report.; 4/8/10, 3:26 PM
GMay said...: "It was the gun that helped set up the Constitutional Representative Republic we have now and it is enumerated in our 2nd amendment, right below the 1st, just in case that one fails."

I think the first half of the 1860s saw a lot of guns settling internal policy disputes as well. Though, in all fairness with the state of our education system, BetaLib was probably never aware of either conflict.

His education certainly didn't sharpen his critical thinking skills.; 4/8/10, 3:27 PM
Joe said...: It's amazing how the trolls can steer a comment thread right into the toilet.

Gotta love free speech.

I really didn't expect anything else, and I doubt Althouse did either...it's a thread that has "Sarah Palin" and a connection to the "Tea Party". I'm just surprised Jeremy isn't here.

WV: "bulatio"...fallatio from a bulemic?; 4/8/10, 3:29 PM
KCFleming said...: Even Satan isn't cruel enough to turn on Prairie Home Companion.

P.S. I am glad you believe in ACORN again, Matt. I am glad you believe Maddow.

They gotta have some people stupid enough to side with them. Might as well be you.; 4/8/10, 3:31 PM
Scott said...: "ACORN has not broken any laws in the last five years..."

It would be more accurate to state that ACORN has not been CAUGHT breaking any laws in the last five years.

That says less about ACORN than it does about the willingness of Lawn Forcement to investigate them. And there are a whole host of political reasons why they don't; along the lines of why they rarely investigate acts of union violence.

Man, give it up.; 4/8/10, 3:32 PM
GMay said...: "Rachel Maddow has a good report."

If you're talking about the quality of her work as a journalist, well...permit me to ae you as sriously as the rest of the thinking world takes her.

If you mean that she farts well, I'll take your word for it.; 4/8/10, 3:34 PM
Scott said...: @Joe: Yeah, it's our benefactor sticking her finger in the canary cage again, trying to make us chirp.; 4/8/10, 3:35 PM
Scott said...: @GMay: When you pass gass, it's that loud, huh. I bet you're a walking OSHA violation at work. :); 4/8/10, 3:39 PM
damikesc said...: So, Matt, Dems spend a lot of effort to kill any attempts to require a photo ID to vote...and then use lack of proof of voters identities to defend groups like ACORN?

Heck, we know one office was open without a permit. But I guess that's actually legal.; 4/8/10, 3:40 PM
Joan said...: Too busy to say anything substantive here, but I did want to congratulate AlphaLib for finally posting live links: Yay!

Lyssa, your links were perfect except you used the square brackets ([]) instead of the angle brackets (these will probably not show up, but here: <>), the ones you get when you type shift-period and shift-comma.

Keep up the good fight, guys.; 4/8/10, 3:41 PM
garage mahal said...: It would be more accurate to state that ACORN has not been CAUGHT breaking any laws in the last five years.

Ah HA! Caught redhanded not getting caught! You guys are too fucking funny. But what now, no more ACORN boogeyman? Sadz.; 4/8/10, 3:43 PM
Scott said...: @garage: Not quite coherent yet are you. Take more Xanax.; 4/8/10, 3:47 PM
Fred4Pres said...: What is Sarah's take on "A Man In Full" compared to "Fargo"?; 4/8/10, 3:50 PM
Opus One Media said...: Meade said...
"Has anyone on here, besides you, even in jest, suggested using violence or targeting a political figure for assassination?"

I used a figure of speech Meade. I didn't suggest violence nor and specifically did I even go near assassination. You know that.

Your attempts at hyperbole may best be left those who dabble in irony.; 4/8/10, 3:51 PM
GMay said...: "Ah HA! Caught redhanded not getting caught! You guys are too fucking funny. But what now, no more ACORN boogeyman? Sadz."

Hey look, it's someone who defends ACORN.

Are you just a standard tax-evading Democrat or do you prefer child prostitutes?; 4/8/10, 3:52 PM
Titus said...: Michael Hastenstob I wouldnt do you. No fag would ever do you. You should be rest assured that you would never be hit on by a fag.; 4/8/10, 3:54 PM
GMay said...: Hey OOM, take the suggestion offered upthread - insert Obama's name and go try the same thing over at DKos, DU, or HuffPo.

Seriously. If not, why?; 4/8/10, 3:55 PM
Sofa King said...: I used a figure of speech Meade. I didn't suggest violence nor and specifically did I even go near assassination. You know that.

Eh? You do realize that a "mercy assassination" is still an assassination, right? That it's not nonviolent even if it's done with love?; 4/8/10, 3:55 PM
Opus One Media said...: Trooper York said...
"hdhouse is not stupid. Just evil and contemptuous of his fellow citizens. Always was and always will be.

He was not joking. He meant it even though he is backpedaling like the bitch that he has so often showed himself to be."

Oh please. I don't run from any fight and you know it. I'm not backpeddling either. It was a funny and ironic remark and due to the age and times, not appropriate but funny nevertheless. I called for no one's assassination. I suppose "lord smite us" would have been better but it lacked a certain flair.

and Trooper, as you are constantly beaten on here like a low hanging pinata, on aspect of growing up that evidently escaped you is not to pick fights when you are terribly overmatched.; 4/8/10, 3:57 PM
Opus One Media said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 3:58 PM
Scott said...: "I used a figure of speech Meade. I didn't suggest violence nor and specifically did I even go near assassination. You know that.

Your attempts at hyperbole may best be left those who dabble in irony."

Your figures of speech would be best left to those who dabble in literacy.; 4/8/10, 4:00 PM
KCFleming said...: Opus One hdhouse Media's assassination post was as funny as Garrison Keillor's commercials for Powdermilk Biscuits.

What a hoot!
It makes my hair bleed.; 4/8/10, 4:02 PM
Scott said...: "It makes my hair bleed."

I want to see that. Can you put it up on YouTube? :); 4/8/10, 4:04 PM
Trooper York said...: hd you consistently show youself to be a pompous moron who can not put together a complete sentance or post a comment without duplicating it with the fat finger you use to push the mucous off of your drooping fish lips. You couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag.

I would only worry if you were trying to argue you way out of a colostomy bag. There you have the benefit of experiance.; 4/8/10, 4:07 PM
garage mahal said...: Hey look, it's someone who defends ACORN.

Are you just a standard tax-evading Democrat or do you prefer child prostitutes?

Even when it's been so thoroughly debunked, you still think ACORN "got away with" it. You have to be willing to believe ACORN was actively setting up child prostitution rings, tax evasion schemes, and child brothels. And they got away with it only because there is a multi state left wing conspiracy apparatus that suppressed all of it. Remember, these are the same clowns that dressed up like telephone repairmen that wanted to get access to Landrieu's phone system. Honestly, how stupid must you be to believe all this? What wouldn't you believe? I'd love to have you as a customer.; 4/8/10, 4:08 PM
Trooper York said...: I do regret that the professor protected you by deleting the post. I suggest that she post the comment in it’s entirety in a new thread so everyone can see what you are about. Let the “Althouse comments community” as a whole post their opinions about what you said and who you are and what you are all about.; 4/8/10, 4:11 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Garage:

So ACORN was cleared of any illicit behavior just like Karl Rove was?; 4/8/10, 4:16 PM
Roger J. said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 4:26 PM
Brian said...: Yeah, garage, that's right. Karl Rove, Bush, Cheney, none of them were convicted of anything. Only Scooter Libby was convicted of anything, and that was for an obstruction of justice charge, which meant he broke a law AFTER the whole Plame affair went down.

By your standards then, the liberal meme that the Bush administration was a criminal enterprise has been debunked.; 4/8/10, 4:29 PM
Roger J. said...: House--you are genuinely pathetic piece of shit--I was going to post something more egregious, but thought better of it.; 4/8/10, 4:30 PM
KCFleming said...: ""It makes my hair bleed."
I want to see that. Can you put it up on YouTube? :)"

Just a picture.; 4/8/10, 4:38 PM
GMay said...: garage "Polanski" mahal fancies:

"Even when it's been so thoroughly debunked..."

By whom? You? Rachel freakin' Maddow? Commondreams.org?

I take it your answer to my previous question was a "yes" then.

Honestly, how stupid do you have to be to defend ACORN? Even congressional Democrats aren't that stupid and one of them thinks Guam might capsize.; 4/8/10, 4:38 PM
garage mahal said...: By whom? You? Rachel freakin' Maddow? Commondreams.org?

Mmm, in each state that these "crimes" were committed? C'mon man. It really has nothing to do with ACORN, [and they are far from a perfect organization], but if you're happy that a complete charade like this could dismantle an entire organization, don't be mad when it happens to one that you like.; 4/8/10, 4:47 PM
Matt said...: Synova

Beck & Maddow hacks

Actually, I would not say Maddow is as 'bad' as Beck. If you said Olbermann or Randi Rhodes then you may be closer to correct. But it is not true that all partisan voices are alike. I mean, I would say Beck is a hack but I would not say Althouse is - even though both are partisan. At least Althouse was smart enough to not vote for McCain / Palin.; 4/8/10, 4:48 PM
KCFleming said...: For the left, "thoroughly debunked" simply means that the MSM has thoroughly ignored it.

It's like Pravda, where people disappeared from photographs from one day to the next.

Except with the internet and new media not playing along, now they're only lying to themselves, so it's sort of embarrassing and pathetic to watch them deny what is right in front of them.; 4/8/10, 4:48 PM
GMay said...: "[and they are far from a perfect organization]"

Mr. Polanski, I applaud your ability to understate the situation.; 4/8/10, 4:54 PM
damikesc said...: OOM, the sixth post in this thread still has your direct quote in it. Asking someone to shoot her "for mercy" would get you a check out by the Secret Service if it was targeted at your man crush.

Not only did you call for it, you have the audacity to be indignant about it. While condemning the Right for its violent rhetoric.; 4/8/10, 4:55 PM
Opus One Media said...: Trooper York said...
"I would only worry if you were trying to argue you way out of a colostomy bag. There you have the benefit of experiance."

Well put there Trooper. Certainly well argued. Succint. Clear. Concise. Little spelling slip but hey. You can only go so far with what ya' got. Huh? Ya'betcha!; 4/8/10, 5:01 PM
garage mahal said...: Mr. Polanski, I applaud your ability to understate the situation.

Look, if you were so concerned about allegations child prostitution, why aren't you out raising hell against these state AG's that covered it all up? This would be a massive scoop for you or Breitbart.

Not long ago, there was a story about some perv that called into a McDonald's, and got one of their female employees to go into a storage room, while on the phone, and undress and do some weird shit. Is McDonald's culpable for this? Should we shut down every McDonald's in America?; 4/8/10, 5:20 PM
Unknown said...: Word of warning for all - left, right, and center. If you think the Secret Service and the FBI just let this stuff slide, I know of a couple of cases on talk radio where careless comments rated a visit from the Feds. I have no doubt comment boards aren't immune, either.

Speak your mind, but leave the threats to the administration.; 4/8/10, 5:29 PM
GMay said...: "Look, if you were so concerned about allegations child prostitution, why aren't you out raising hell against these state AG's that covered it all up?"

I won't bother asking you for links about "all these state AGs", I'll just answer your question with this: Congress voted to defund them, the CB sent them packing, and they're pretty much done as a reputable organization.

I guess I could go piss on their boarded up offices, but that would be a waste of perfectly good piss.

"Not long ago, there was a story about some perv that called into a McDonald's..."

So was it an ACORN office that was giving tax and business advice to a pimp and underage prostitute?

Got another analogy Sport?; 4/8/10, 5:45 PM
Joe said...: Opus, you DID NOT use a "figure of speech"...I read it and I quoted you accurately...

You said, "shoot her"..."No rid me of this troublesome priest"...shoot her.

It wasn't funny and it wasn't a figure of speech.consymb; 4/8/10, 6:05 PM
Pastafarian said...: AlphaLiberal at 9:31: “…bullshit flows…”

AlphaLiberal at 11:22: “I'd look at other polls but coffee break is over.”

With about 12 other comments by AlphaLiberal between these two.

That’s one hell of a coffee break you have there, dude. You work at Starbucks?

I’m forced to conclude that the probability that you have “coffee breaks” at your “job” is roughly equal to the probability that all of these liberal “small business owners” in these comments sections, who all employ about 25 people, and who all favor policies that put a great big target on the back of every employer, actually own a business.

That is, somewhere between slim and none.

This is your job, Alpha Liberal. And if they’re paying you based on quantity rather than quality, they got their money’s worth today. If they’re not paying you, then I’m forced to conclude that you’re among the 47% of the population that I’m helping to support with my taxes.

You’re welcome.

Now go out and get a job, you goddamned lazy hippy.; 4/8/10, 6:18 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: The suggestion that Acorn is absolved of blame unless charges are filed is bogus. I don't know if providing suggestions on how one might engage in prostitution is illegal or not. I guess that's for AGs to decide. It is certainly sleazy and despicable.

I would advise everyone to view the unedited videos. They are readily available. It's ridiculous to claim they make Acorn employees look like an innocent victims. Only a true ideologue would go to bat for those scumbags.; 4/8/10, 6:23 PM
Scott said...: @Pastafarian: He's a sock puppet. Althouse is a very popular blog. Someone is paying him to puke their talking points -- probably a union or some DNC surrogate.

Which is a lame way to make a living. Then again. Washington D.C. is populated by soulless whores for causes of all sorts.; 4/8/10, 6:26 PM
Scott said...: @Pogo: Thank you. Now I'm sorry I asked. |:^P==; 4/8/10, 6:28 PM
Scott said...: Lyssa: Nice blog; 4/8/10, 6:29 PM
Scott said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/8/10, 6:29 PM
Scott said...: Can you see why AlphaLiberal is obviously a sock puppet, but Garage Mahal is not?

wv: nommo, a Swedish resort that used to be popular.; 4/8/10, 6:33 PM
garage mahal said...: I would advise everyone to view the unedited videos. They are readily available.

The unedited videos are NOT readily available. Not available anywhere, because Breitbart refuses to release them.; 4/8/10, 6:42 PM
Floridan said...: She is the walking and talking embodiment of a traditional American attitude toward freedom and self government thru leaders elected to preserve America and to benefit the people rather than to destroy America and enslave the people.

Yes, I can just imagine her discussing political philosophy with Jefferson, Madison and Hamilton.; 4/8/10, 7:59 PM
Peter Hoh said...: Sorry I was working and unable to report directly from the Palin/Bachmann rally, but I'm sure it would have been fun. Especially watching the audience reaction to Pawlenty.

Man, he's got to be so pissed about being eclipsed by Palin.; 4/8/10, 8:08 PM
traditionalguy said...: Florida...Palin would not philosophise with Jimmy Madison, Tommy Jefferson and Alex Hamilton, but she will act as Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln acted. You Betcha.; 4/8/10, 8:16 PM
GMay said...: Floridan dreamed: "Yes, I can just imagine her discussing political philosophy with Jefferson, Madison and Hamilton."

I shudder to think of it!

Just like I shudder to think of those same people listening to our President stumbling and uh-ing his way on the fringes of the conversation without a teleprompter.

Maybe he could give a few shout-outs to make them feel more comfortable.; 4/8/10, 8:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Funnily enough, Obama's original context of that whole 'clinging' phrase was basically the way that Ms. Palin is framing it, but there's no percentage in being honest about the original context not being negative or dismissive.

It is quite telling how white people cling to the phrase itself because a black guy said it when white liberals say far more genuinely dismissive stuff and aren't endlessly referenced. There is a very interesting level of visceral 'how dare one of them feel sympathy for us!'

The original context was quite sympathetic and yet that very sympathy was thrown right back in Obama's face and is continually used to illustrate that he's uppity and arrogant and out of touch. Racialised, definitely, and in a very particular way.; 4/8/10, 9:16 PM
Anonymous said...: PS: It's also quite fascinating how white conservative mouthpieces keep referencing it in a highly manipulative way that is actually far more insulting, and yet their trick is greeted with open arms by supplicant masses.; 4/8/10, 9:19 PM
Unknown said...: i expect that by tomorrow there will be an Althouse post on Obama saying he doesnt take advice from Sarah Palin .....; 4/8/10, 9:33 PM
Dr Weevil said...: Alpha Liberal wrote near the beginning of this threat (10:03am):
"So this Saturday wingnuts around the country plan to rally with their guns. They chose the anniversary o[f] Timothy McVeigh's bombing of the federal building in OK City."
This Saturday is April 10th. Next Saturday is April 17th. The 15th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing is the following Monday, April 19th. Alpha Liberal is neither an Alpha nor a Liberal, but an evil-minded moron.; 4/8/10, 9:44 PM
KCFleming said...: "white conservative mouthpieces keep referencing it in a highly manipulative way"

Bullshit.
Obama was arrogant and condescending.
It was an op ed by a Sioux City Iowa community college sociology professor.
Why say it?
Moron.; 4/8/10, 9:46 PM
Meade said...: "i expect that by tomorrow there will be an Althouse post on Obama saying he doesnt take advice from Sarah Palin ..."

...but from Secular Apostate... he's all ears.; 4/8/10, 9:55 PM
GMay said...: Secular Apostate fantasizes: "Funnily enough, Obama's original context of that whole 'clinging' phrase was basically the way that Ms. Palin is framing it, but there's no percentage in being honest about the original context not being negative or dismissive."

Funnily enough, you either never listened to Obama utter those words framed in all their gushingly symatheitc context, or your understanding of the English language is hopelessly flawed.

"It is quite telling how white people cling to the phrase itself because a black guy said it when white liberals say far more genuinely dismissive stuff and aren't endlessly referenced. There is a very interesting level of visceral 'how dare one of them feel sympathy for us!'"

It's quite telling how some people project their racism onto others with such ease. There needs to be a term similar to Godwin's Law about this sort of racist assclownery.

The fact that people still "endlessly reference" Harry Reid's "negro dialect" comment and Joe Biden's "clean and articulate" comment just to whip out a couple of examples right off the top of my tiny racist white head, sorta torpedos your shitty assertion now doesn't it?; 4/8/10, 9:59 PM
mtrobertsattorney said...: Secular Apostate tells us that Obama's "clinging" speech should be understood a expressing sympathy for those poor white folks out there.

But what exactly what was he sympathetic about? He was sympathetic about their stupidity and ignorance. And he was just trying to be helpful in explaining why these folks are so stupid and ignorant.

Oh! Now don't we all feel better?; 4/8/10, 10:03 PM
Scott said...: It is quite telling how white people cling to the phrase itself because a black guy said it when white liberals say far more genuinely dismissive stuff and aren't endlessly referenced.

It is quite telling how leftists cling to race as a metaphor for class.

It is quite telling how leftists cling to racial memes even when there is no evidence that race is a factor.

It is quite telling how leftists cling to the tactic of smearing their opponents with lies.

It is quite telling how leftists cling to narcissistic notions of intellectual superiority when their words reveal something that is considerably less.

It is quite telling how leftists cling to the validity of their self image, wrought in a funhouse mirror.

It is quite telling how leftists cling.; 4/8/10, 10:08 PM
Anonymous said...: I think Althouse probably deleted the post because she doesn't want people who google "Palin death threats" to end up here.

That seems to be the concession that she has made concerning free speech. The principle seems to be: say what you want but don't say something that will impugn Althouse simply because she hosts the site.

And that seems fair.

So, anyway, Opus/HD: you are a cunt.; 4/8/10, 10:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Also, the name Secular Apostate reeks of some kind of undergraduate fulmination. Trying way too hard to be cool. And failing.; 4/8/10, 10:17 PM
Unknown said...: Meade, if you're still around, I posted some questions for you at 4/8/10 1:05 PM. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on the questions ...

... and actually from anyone who cares to answer them. they were questions prompted by your response to the youtube video i posted.

cheers; 4/8/10, 10:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Well, Danielle, seeing as how Meade has posted twice since then, I think it's fair to say has been around.

I don't pretend to speak for Meade, but I will speculate that he didn't respond because your long-winded twaddle signified absolutely nothing.

Try less boilerplate.; 4/8/10, 10:46 PM
Scott said...: A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and all that, huh.; 4/8/10, 10:51 PM
Anonymous said...: That's our Danielle.; 4/8/10, 10:53 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: So you want the government to cut taxes, then you complain some people don't pay enough taxes. Which is it?

Let me help you out garage and lets take the second point first. Its not that some people don't pay enough taxes; its that A LOT of people, 47% of income earners in fact pay ZERO federal income tax. That means 53% of income earners pay MORE in taxes to make up for the 47%. Maybe is more the 47% paid into the system the 53% can get a tax cut to make up the difference.

That make sense to you?; 4/9/10, 7:51 AM
Mark said...: The original context was quite sympathetic and yet that very sympathy was thrown right back in Obama's face...

The biggest problem with the audience that Obama addressed when he let his hair down and said what he really meant is that they truly do NOT recognize the difference between sympathetic and condescending.

Of course he was being sympathetic. Anyone too unintelligent to embrace religion, to believe in the self-reliance which is at the core of gun culture, has to be shown compassion and given the opportunity to overcome the twin burdens of stupidity and false-consciousness.

There's a certain brand of educated intelligence which loops all the way back to stupid.; 4/9/10, 7:57 AM
Roger J. said...: Mark--in my experience there is only a weak positive correlation between education and intelligence.; 4/9/10, 8:15 AM
Scott said...: "Of course he was being sympathetic. Anyone too unintelligent to embrace religion, to believe in the self-reliance which is at the core of gun culture, has to be shown compassion and given the opportunity to overcome the twin burdens of stupidity and false-consciousness.

There's a certain brand of educated intelligence which loops all the way back to stupid."

It's condescending; and that isn't merely stupid. It's the product of a narcissistic viewpoint, developed, no doubt, from years of community activism where he learned to judge people solely by their utility to the larger cause.

Barry O. is educated and anointed. Therefore, you are wrong if you don't agree. The little people who can't be convinced are to be pushed aside.; 4/9/10, 8:25 AM
GMay said...: "...its that A LOT of people, 47% of income earners in fact pay ZERO federal income tax."

This year, many of them actually had a net gain. So we've gone from a progressive taxation system which could be argued is wealth redistribution, to an undeniable wealth redistribution scheme.

But don't you dare call it socialist!; 4/9/10, 9:06 AM
GMay said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/9/10, 9:06 AM
Meade said...: Danielle,

First, you need to go back and carefully read what I wrote. You misquoted me.

Then, let me suggest you watch the entire 2004 Obama/Charlie Rose interview, not just the YouTube clip. If you watch with an open mind, I think you'll catch some revealing moments at 9:10, 15:00, 16:00, 16:15, 17:20 18:00, 19:00, 26:25, 28:15, and then, at 28:30 you'll notice that Obama agrees with Rose as Rose characterizes the fear this "new set of voter" has of the courts changing American culture and American social life. Rose declares that "that [the changing of culture and social life] is the responsibility of the Legislature." Obama quietly agrees.

I'm guessing that you agree as well.

But the "new set of voter," the Tea Party movement does not.

Do you remember the famous John F. Kennedy quote written by Theodore Sorensen? I think most people in the Tea Party movement would agree with that sentiment but would rewrite it slightly to give it and even deeper level of meaning:

Ask not what government can do for you - ask what you can do for yourself and for our country.

Like Jimmy Carter, Obama believes that government is the solution to the problem of our collective salvation. Like Ronald Reagan and the participants in the original Boston Tea Party, today's Tea Party movement believes government is the problem.; 4/9/10, 1:13 PM
Meade said...: An hour with Illinois Senator Barack Obama
Tuesday, November 23, 2004; 4/9/10, 1:19 PM
Alex said...: Meade - the new interpretation of JFK's "ask what you can do for your country" is how much more taxes can you pay to support holy entitlement programs.; 4/9/10, 1:50 PM
Unknown said...: thanks for the response Meade, I'll check it out the CR interview.

much appreciated.

cheers.; 4/9/10, 2:02 PM
Methadras said...: Titus said...

Michael Hastenstob I wouldnt do you. No fag would ever do you. You should be rest assured that you would never be hit on by a fag.

Well, you've just legitimized a homosexual man, Titus. Good on you.; 4/9/10, 9:09 PM
Methadras said...: Garage, what is really a farce is watching you defend ACORN of all things. Your ideology has brought you to a new low, fatso.; 4/9/10, 9:13 PM
josil said...: Sarah Palin is a living, walking litmus test of your very own self esteem. It seems to turn color most accurately for those who claim intellectual status.; 4/9/10, 9:47 PM
Unknown said...: Meade -- i watched the CR interview and noted the the times you flagged in your post.

you said "the fear this "new set of voter" has of the courts changing American culture and American social life. Rose declares that "that [the changing of culture and social life] is the responsibility of the Legislature." Obama quietly agrees." (that is a direct quote. and in my last post, that was a direct quote from you as well so you were *not* misquoted).

It seems patently obvious to me that when they are talking about these cultural and social changes, they are alluding to the civil rights movement.

I cant imagine that you believe that the civil rights act was somehow ill conceived or unnecessary, or not the proper role of the legislature. Was the government the problem in this case ?

... when Obama talks about collective salvation, he's talking about social justice which is a theological concept inherent to the Gospels. he's talking about providing opportunities where there are very few. he's talking about freedom. he's talking about equity. he's talking about justice. Not handouts, but the same sorts of opportunities that people who were not systematically denied rights and opportunities have.

I dont know how people who grew up during/before civil rights can misconstrue this necessity.

i'm pretty sure you viewed these quotes differently.

and please, don't confuse having an open mind with seeing thing the way you see them. that is *very* insulting. what you meant when you said watch with an open mind was that I should try to somehow see what he was *really* saying, which you judge to be what you believe he was saying, what you heard.; 4/10/10, 11:43 AM
Meade said...: "It seems patently obvious to me that when they are talking about these cultural and social changes, they are alluding to the civil rights movement."

It seems to me it's time for us to agree to disagree.

I don't think they were alluding to the civil rights movement. They directly address the civil rights movement in other parts of the interview. Why would they only allude to it in that section? It does not make sense.

The point I want to make is that Obama, as presidential candidate, had a specific "Rovian" plan to capture what he identified as "a new set of voter." He clearly talks about that in his interviews with Rose both in 2004 and 2006.

But Obama (falsely) presented himself as being sympathetic to a set of voters whose primary political commitment was to limited constitutional government, fiscal responsibility, and free markets.

If it wasn't clear to everyone before the election, it should be patently obvious now (to borrow your phrase) that Obama's primary commitment was to "collective salvation" by way of expanded government spending, higher taxation (wait, it's coming), and nationalized control of the economy.

And think about it: his use of the word "clinging" reveals the point of view of someone who is, in fact, patently not sympathetic to something many Americans view as being primary rights as expressed in the first and second amendments to the Constitution.; 4/11/10, 11:20 AM
Unknown said...: The proof that the legislature has to make the changes an not the courts was proven in the civil rights movement. that is the proof case. i'm very confident that this is the main reason why Obama believes this. Its not clear to me why you were so exercised about 'changing of cultural and social life' via the legislature. the only major change I know of has been civil rights, so i'm not quite sure what you are afraid might happen.

It seems to me that you're reading the terms 'collective salvation' and 'cling' in ways that were not intended.

the term 'collective salvation' is taken from a theology that deals mainly with social justice, and which is grounded in the life and work of Jesus and the notion that his death provided for the redemption of believers. it has to do with how intertwined all of our lives really are .... empathy, equity, fairness, justice, dignity, being your brother's keeper ... its the sense that if you're doing well, but your brother is not being treated fairly, then you need to do something about that. That's what obama met when he mentioned the inner city kid not getting a fair shake ...

and 'cling' you seem to read as having negative connotation ... cling just means remaining close. there is nothing negative about clinging. people should cling to what they believe in.

and on the 'new voter' ... in the CR interview, he said that the problem was that republicans were able to falsely define the dems to this new voter. of course any 2008 presidential candidate was going to have to define themselves on their own if they had a chance of winning.

you say Obama fooled them. and you say that he wants to nationalize the banks, increase spending, and raise taxes. well, Obama chose to not nationalize the banks. on spending increases, that's probably going to happen; but Bush did the same. And on taxes, the Bush tax cuts are going to expire. Its not unlikely that tax levels will be back to what they were under reagan, but that will effect top earners. (>250K). how else do you propose paying for these wars ?; 4/11/10, 9:23 PM
Meade said...: "That's what obama met when he mentioned the inner city kid not getting a fair shake ..."

Hmmm. Hey Danielle, what's your informed opinion -- don't you think Obama is an atheist?; 4/11/10, 11:02 PM
Unknown said...: Hey Meade,

no, I dont think Obama is an athiest.

i do think he's more concerned with living out his faith by way of social justice than the more abstract, unknowable theological questions.

I dont know how (Obama's lack of) atheism relates to the inner city kid not getting a fair shake.

I seems to me that you think he is a total huckster.

Why is that ?

I worry that people who think this are doing so because they find him so 'other'.; 4/12/10, 7:23 PM
Meade said...: no, I dont think Obama is an athiest.
i do think he's more concerned with living out his faith by way of social justice than the more abstract, unknowable theological questions. I dont know how (Obama's lack of) atheism relates to the inner city kid not getting a fair shake.

Then, you think he is of which faith? Christian?

It seems to me that you think he is a total huckster. Why is that ?

In fact, I don't think he's a total huckster. I think he's a masterful partial huckster politician who reached high office mainly by being a blank screen onto which voters were able to project many unrealistic hopes. Contrast Obama with candidate Bill Clinton where what voters got was pretty much what voters saw.

I worry that people who think this are doing so because they find him so 'other'.

Other what?; 4/13/10, 3:12 PM
Unknown said...: Obama is a Christian. Why do you doubt that?

Obama presented himself to the right of most liberals. he said he would do universal health care. he called Afghanistan the good war, and he has made decisions to keep it winnable. He said he would close gitmo. He issued the orders, but congress wasnt having it. He told people he wasnt pro-gay marriage. He said he was for repealing dont ask dont tell.

when I say other, i mean that they see him as fundamentally different from them. Since they find him so different, they have trouble trusting his him on anything and end up reading everything he says in the most cynical way possible; or taking random facts and leaving out other facts and constructing the most ridiculous narrative possible. I'm not saying that any politician is worthy of one's full trust, but I find some narratives that are constructed about Obama to be particularly ridiculous.

Nearly no one could predict how awful the financial crisis would be. he did what he thought was necessary to stabilize it. and he did not nationalize the banks as some liberal economists called for.; 4/13/10, 3:37 PM
Meade said...: I agree with the second comment here.

Obama presented himself to the right of most liberals. And yet, did anyone in the Senate have a more liberal voting record during his years there? I don't think so.

He is "fundamentally different," I agree. While I believe Obama is a "natural born Citizen," I think he was born to and reared by parents who lacked a fundamental love for and attachment to America. For some reason, many voters chose not to look closely at Obama's patriotism and gave too much weight to McCain's.; 4/13/10, 8:35 PM
Unknown said...: hm.

highly questionable thesis. i thought that being a Christian required you to confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord.

but, let's think this through.

so first, church going is a litmus test for faith. hmm? sounds like something said by either (1) some sort of religious fundamentalist, or (2) a person who knows nothing about faith, and has some vested interest in declaring that obama is an athiest (someone like, say, christopher hitchens).

secondly, if there was some charade, dont you think obama is smart enough to try to maintain it by going to church to appease all the people who think that going to church makes your christian.

third, obama has stated that taking his motorcade to church is highly disruptive to a congregation and he said he prefers the chapel at camp david.

i think its much more likely that obama in his life post birth of children, and during a career that had him communting far to work (springfield or DC), hasnt spent much time at church on sundays.

and there is nothing wrong with that.

and as a side note, i think that's why the pres didnt consistently hear any of rev wright's more firey sermons.; 4/13/10, 8:50 PM
Unknown said...: you also said this: "he was born to and reared by parents who lacked a fundamental love for and attachment to America."

that's also quite a stunning (and offensive) judgment.

what do you know about his mother's patriotism ? or his grandmother's patriotism ? or his grandfather's patriotism ? obama's grandfather fought in WWII. you think his father didnt love america because he didnt, what, stay here ? move here ?

is there something inconsistent with loving one's country and choosing to live abroad with the man you love, or intense academic work focusing on a population of people that lives outside of the US.

And quite apart from this, do grown adults believe everything and feel everything exactly the way their parents do ??

I am so puzzled by these things you are saying.

When the pres had said he loves this country and God Bless this country, you think he's lying ? you think he's involved in some Machiavellian plot to undo the US ?

At the most generous that I can be, it sounds to me like you think he doesnt love America in the way that you believe that you do -- partly because you think that what he wants to do to America is different than what you want. I find it very very disturbing that you are translating this feeling into an accusation that he doesnt love America. you really cant find any element of what he has said or done that you agree with ?

Sadly, I'm afraid that in this conversation you are coming off like a person who has woven together these facts in a way that seems both ridiculous and offensive to me.

very very sad.; 4/13/10, 9:07 PM
Unknown said...: and what is your litmus test of patriotism ?

what, for you, defines being a patriot ?

gosh. it pains me to even to have to ask you this question. so unbelievable !! a person who chooses to go into public service, into government ... i cant believe you !; 4/13/10, 9:16 PM
Unknown said...: and, please verify that checked out answers to this ridiculous question for the other people you have voted for for president (in previous years).; 4/13/10, 9:17 PM
Unknown said...: gosh, and Meade, let me tell you this -- the most frustrating part of this (why i'm so frustrated and disappointed in this conversation), is because we in the ethnic and cultural minority are always asked to explain ourselves. always. obviously there are cultural difference, the subtleties is the way people express and relate; what is ascribed meaning, and why ... expectations, responsibilities, the relationship and responsibility to the community. clearly there are cultural aspects to religion as well though, even with in the christian umbrella. Meade, I know all about american culture ... many of the different strands of white America (though i do no less about smaller groups). and i have to in order to get along in this country. And I try to understand.

but to me it seems like you are not affording the same effort to president obama. you make the most cynical assumptions. you dont listen and hear and percieve long enough to consider the possibility that there is a consistency and an earnestness there that isnt somehow subversive. and yes, its true, you don't have to. but he's just as american as you are. and i would have hoped that in this country where we are all equally american, that you could give an american-brother the benefit of the doubt. I realize the stakes are somewhat higher because he is now the most powerful man in the world; but, really, that's all the more reason to give the guy enough of your attention and good will to see what he's about before making cynical assumptions and judgments.; 4/13/10, 9:37 PM
Meade said...: Again, Danielle, I think you and I need to agree to disagree.

You believe Obama's political opponents are making cynical assumptions and judgments about him now. I believe many of Obama's supporters made woefully wrong assumptions and judgments about him when he was a candidate. Of course, history will be the judge.

Meanwhile, I want him to continue to be happy and well, a good father and husband, and a successful Chief Executive and Commander in Chief. It is his political agenda I would like to see defeated. Personally, I wish him well.

I also wish you well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.; 4/14/10, 8:09 AM
Unknown said...: "You believe Obama's political opponents are making cynical assumptions and judgments about him now."

Actually, I think the more pathetic and ruthless politicians are the ones making the cynical assumptions and judgments, and whipping up the angst of the general population (some of whom already thought the same thing).

I'd be very surprised if self-respecting people who know and work with him would say and insinuate the sorts of offensive personal attacks on his faith and patriotism (like the ones you have made) that people like Palin and Beck and Rush. (there are plenty of others, but I dont know the names of all the folks I've seen doing this).

You are right in saying that for a lot of people, Obama was like a blank screen that people projected their hopes onto. But its also the case that most of those people who were projecting have a general slant towards the center left ideas he presented (which made voting for McCain./Palin impossible).

But you are right, history will be the judge.

And on the sociological level, on great side effect in my view is that people who view him as other will have no choice but to see him. and see michelle. and see the rest of their beautiful family. and see that what is other to them is just as valid and patriotic and christian.

History will indeed be the judge ....; 4/14/10, 9:37 AM
Doug Smith said...: Actually, I think the more pathetic and ruthless politicians are the ones making the cynical assumptions and judgments, and whipping up the angst of the general population (some of whom already thought the same thing).

You like to use the word "pathetic" to describe your opponents alot. In fact you're a big fan of name calling.; 4/14/10, 11:14 AM
Alex said...: You know I think the tea parties are finished. Tomorrow you're gonna see loads of racist signs and N-word chants. The media will cover it like "an epidemic of racism in tea parties" and moderate America will tune out. This is how I see it coming down. It's over.; 4/14/10, 11:42 AM