I'm opening a new post, because there are already almost 200 comments on the last Sarah Palin post.
I'm watching CNN, where Wolf Blitzer is chuckling about Palin's high-school nickname, Sarah Barracuda.
August 29, 2008
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277 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 277 of 277Palin's assertion puts to question her ability grasp the difference between what's real and what's make-believe.
Much like Obama's assertion that he'll free us from Middle East oil in ten years. I'm the furthest thing from a Creationist, but at least it can be said that we don't know for certain that God didn't create the world. We do know for certain that we'll still be dependent on Middle Eastern oil in ten years. :)
I have to go look for the story, but I'm sure I've read that the brother in law (the state trooper Palin wanted fired) made threats against her sister, her father, and maybe more.
I would figure that this should result in a police officer beaing fired, but maybe that's just me.
I'm a registered indepedent, voted Clinton twice, Bush twice, and I can smell the Obama camp's flop sweat all the way down here in Houston.
Busted through 200 again. Time for a new thread!
It is asinine to call something "affirmative action" when it involves preferred treatment of a group people can choose to join.
You can choose to become a woman? Maybe you can, Rev. But not me over here. I have family values.
Oh, and Ramesh Ponnuru, at NRO, big bad conservative guy:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWY0YmM3N2JhMTVkYmI0ZjU0OTBiYTY3NmUyMjgxNTc=
"Tokenism. Can anyone say with a straight face that Palin would have gotten picked if she were a man?"
Wow. A token pick. Sound familiar?
Alpha said,
In office, what, two years? And she already has her own abuse of power scandal. Hey, she gets things done!
You don't think the McCain people went over that with a fine toothed comb during the vetting process?
Watching the lefties squirm and wriggle is so satisfying.
Demanding a recount?
Just trying to get to the bottom of the obama-wouldn't-have-won-if-he-weren't-black meme.
Revenant -- how many VPs have been picked because of "regional balance"?
What we have here is a situation where the genetic trait of one politician -- race -- helped him win a primary campaign while the genetic trait of another politician -- gender -- is thought to help an old white guy get more votes.
Votes is all that matters. By definition the person who gets the most votes is the best candidate.
Using the term "affirmative action" in regards to a politician's ability to garner votes is like complaining about height discrimination in basketball.
"Yes, he is. Everyone is."
No, he isn't. This isn't a court of law.
Besides, he's claimed responsibility.
You know, John Wilkes Booth was never convicted. Maybe you should argue that he should be presumed innocent, too.
The bottom line is...
the most talent-barren election of my lifetime just got worthy of going to the polls and casting a vote.
"it's going to be downright impossible to accept scientific truths if you feel that science is the antithesis of your most important beliefs,"
You are falsely assigning this viewpoint to people. a.k.a. "Bearing false witness."
My view:
1) Creationism is a religious belief and has not place in a science classroom.
2) Creation and evolution are not incompatible. (Though the account in Genesis should not be literally interpreted).
3) The USA is lagging in science education with other nations and playing religious politics with our kids' education, as Sarah Palin does here, is grossly irresponsible.
A woman, oh glory. Call the NOW.
mcg: you took the words out my fingers...and more well written, too.
Yes, democrats, continue to discuss inexperience well into the night...
Just thought I would give you some kudos for your post.
Any Battlestar Galactica fans notice something?
Out identity politicking the masters of identity politics!
Maverick!
VP selections are about the kind of judgment a candidate has...what he thinks about the seriousness of being President.
Obama chose someone with a wide swath of experience, foreign and domestic. McCain chose someone with less than two years experience as Governor of Alaska.
McCain showed everyone what he thinks with a completely cynical pick.
He didn't choose the best person he could find to occupy the White House if he should die in office, instead he chose someone who simply helps him politically with the the base of his party that despises and mistrusts him as a faux conservative who doesn't share their ideals.
He didn't even find the best woman...I guess Gov. Palen has more experience in foreign policy that Condi Rice...oh but Condi has that pesky GW Bush problem.
This was a pick for Republicans alone and they are clearly quite happy with it because it now gives them a reason to actually vote, rather than stay home...so in that sense is 'changes the game'.
Yes it means Joe Biden can't win the debate with her because debates are all about 'expectations'.
So congrats GOP, you've energized your base and perhaps blunted an Obama bounce. You'll have a nice convention where we'll hear John McCain was in Hanoi Hilton for 5 years about a thousand times for the 12 people who don't know it. Then we'll hear about the great Sarah Palin and how she's got the toughness to be President because she hunts and fishes.
Sad to see that John McCain sold his soul to the very wing of the GOP of which he used to say we should be wary.
You know, the USA has been lagging behind "other nations" for the past 100 years or so in everything related to education -- math, science, reading, whatever. And look at us, dude. We are totally awesome relative to every other country.
I say, let's keep lagging.
This lady impressed the hell out of me - a great speaker - she does not need the teleprompter.
Excellent, excellent. I'm glad McCain did this and I'm finally going to write out a check for him.
Can we all at least agree her speaking voice is more pleasant then Sen. Clinton's?
lawgiver:
"You don't think the McCain people went over that with a fine toothed comb during the vetting process?"
I don't pretend to know what John McCain, who was abused his office in his own involvement in the Keating 5 scandal that ripped off taxpayers and for which justice was never done, is thinking on that.
I suspect they think they can make it go away, or that Obama-Biden won't raise it. Or, maybe he just doesn't see what the problem is. Maybe the fix is in (a couple legislators up against the Republican juggernaut, this thing should be thrown to the courts)....
Bear in mind, the Bush-Cheney Administration routinely abuses our government, betrays our constitution, and abuses power to help cronies. The Republican mindset is "to the victor goes the spoils."
So, I honestly don't think McCain has a problem with it.
p.s. If you watch that video, she's changed her story. Not looking good.
Sad to see that John McCain sold his soul
Hey, isn't this the same Ron who criticized people here for incivility and lack of decorum for having the temerity to criticize Obama?
What the fuck, Ron? I mean, really. What the fucking fuck?
Oh, please, if Palin is the "cynical" pick, then Obama is the Democrats "cynical" pick...or are you going to say he's really more qualified to be in the OVal Office than Hillary???
Really????
legislative experience doesn't count
I'm going to argue for potential over experience. The batting average of Executive-Presidents is not that strong:
Legislator-Presidents since 1952:
JFK
LBJ
Nixon
Ford
GHW Bush
Executive-Presidents:
Eisenhower
Carter
Reagan
Clinton
GW Bush
And VP is a chair-warming job, not an executive job.
"He didn't pick her because of her politics. "
I think this is obviously untrue, at least to a significant degree.
Making a choice because she is a woman may actually be political in and of itself. But leave that aside for a moment.
If he was going purely for an 'affirmative action'/woman pick, then his obvious choice would have been Kay Bailey Hutchison. That he did not choose her suggests that there were other reasons. Some that come to mind are:
1) Palin fits the maverick, take on the Washington insiders narrative that McCain wants as his campaign's.
2) Palin would, I guess, be more acceptable to the Republican base,
3) She has executive experience, small as it is, and
4) She apparently is a pretty good speaker.
Those would all be political reasons. So even if you want to say she was chosen for being a woman, there are a lot of women and he chose her, and the reason is he felt she helps politically.
Victoria said: The kind of choice Democrats should've made for VP and didn't.
Bambi's inexperience forced their hand. They couldn't make a pick like this. But McCain could.
All these liberals commenting on this blog seem so incensed and "bewildered" at McCain's pick? But why? What do they care?
Because the bottom line is that it hurts BHO's chances big time and they know it. If it wasn't a concern, why even bother posting their "concern"? I'm just saying what I think most people are thinking about the knee jerk reaction we're getting from some of these liberal posters and the media.
Notice, all this affirmative action, lack of experience mumbling...is all coming from the Left, just a smoke screen to hide their fear. And yes, they should be afraid. They've lost the last two already and now it looks like their odds for winning this one have just taken a turn for the worse.
You can choose to become a woman?
No, dumbass. I was responding to the suggestion that a preference for veterans was "affirmative action". Obviously giving somebody because of their gender -- or, like Obama, their race -- counts.
One thing strikes me aabout McCain's pick--its effect on the republican party whether or not McCain wins or loses--if he loses, he has elevated Palin to the front ranks of the party and she is young enough to be a formidable presence for many years--if McCain loses, Gov Palin now has the inside track for the 2012 election.
The experience she doesn't measure up with is Romney, Pawletny, Huckabee, Crist and the like.
If this is her big positive, she comes up way short.
"1) Creationism is a religious belief and has not place in a science classroom. "
My view: creationism is a religious belief and has no place in a science curriculum. However, if the subject is raised in class, it is the perfect opportunity for the teacher to use it to teach why it is that creationism is, by definition, a matter of faith and not science. Including, but not necessarily limited to, pointing out that it is not falsifiable, and as such cannot be in the realm of scientific endeavors.
In fact, I almost thing creationism should be in science class, just to teach the very real and very important criteria for what is and what is not science.
As far as her Foreign experience, here Jindal has to deal with Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi as our neighbors. Palin's are Canada and, oh, Russia. A bit more than Obama's Foreign exparience of choosing between French or Italian Merlot.
david green displays poor reading comprehension skills:
"All these liberals commenting on this blog seem so incensed and "bewildered" at McCain's pick?"
Uh, not so much. We're making fun.
And, it's really telling that McCain the so-called "Maverick" is still kowtowing to the religious right, a small percentage of the population.
John McCain, not his own man.
Good point, David.
Republican response to Biden: meh.
Democratic response to Palin: huge shit storm of invective and criticism.
Why?
Alpha -- You don't really sound like you are making fun.
If Sarah Palin is such a bad choice as so many lefties claim then why aren't you guys thrilled with her selection?
If anti affirmative action conservatives are willing to accept her as McCain's choice why does it bother you pro affirmative action liberals?
Apparently McCain blew it. He blundered. So let's see some joy and happiness and hope from the liberal left.
Why can't you guys give up being pissed off and bitter for once in your lives.
Machos...I think when I was told to "shut the fuck up", civility became passe.
To use the words that were so prevalent last week, this is just good faith criticism.
"I'm going to argue for potential over experience. The batting average of Executive-Presidents is not that strong:
Legislator-Presidents since 1952:
JFK
LBJ
Nixon
Ford
GHW Bush
Executive-Presidents:
Eisenhower
Carter
Reagan
Clinton
GW Bush
And VP is a chair-warming job, not an executive job."
So, what is that-- 2 fails, 1 1/2 mediocrities, and 3/4 success in 4 Presidents (counting Ford as half and JFK as 3/4) from legislatives, as compared to 3 successes (including some monumental ones) and two misses for executives?
Ron -- When I told you to shut the fuck up, I was mocking you. Everyone here was mocking you, as I am mocking you now.
Fucking lighten up, Frances.
I think Holly has the story on "trooper gate." Palin protected her sister from an abusive husband--that is going to resonate among women--Dont think they would have picked her had the story been adverse. Time will tell, and I see the Obamabots have already picked up the talking points.
Democratic response to Palin: huge shit storm of invective and criticism.
I think it's because paradoxically it's progressive and conservative at the same time. It is a masterstroke.
But it helps Obama by taking away the "low experience" stigma. I mean a dozen years ago, Palin was in charge of who was going to bring the cupcakes to the PTA meeting. Then she went from Mayor of a town of 6700 to Governor of a state 100 times as big, defeating the (experienced) incumbent. Ability, promise, potential, outweigh experience.
MAVERICK- x2!
Flip around the blogosphere, the liberals are going mad dog slobbering insane, accusing her of murdering polar bears for recreation.
Probably not. Years ago, when visiting our northernmost town (Barrow), our guide pointed to the polar bear skins and noted that those were Native Alaskans, as it was illegal for anyone else to own one, much less hunt for one.
She has firmed the conservative base.
That is not affirmative action. That is smart politics.
What this pick has to overcome -- mostly likely in the debates -- is the gut assumption by most that this was a crass attempt to appeal to women and disgruntled Hillary supports.
The idea that the "inexperience" hypocrisy in this choice undermines the base is absurd. We'll root for our teams. The pick of Biden undermines Obama's Iraq vote and his message of a broken Washington in need of change, but it won't deter his core from voting for him. Ditto with McCain. Some will forgive Obama his snorts while calling Bush a cokehead, some will forgive Newt his pokes while calling Edwards despicable. It's a team sport nowadays. Will this pick snag undecided voters?
What I find interesting is this:
Where Biden undermines Obama's message of change, Palin tends to reaffirm some of McCain's strongest identity points in the eyes of voters. She also embodies some of the very praise heaped on Obama. She may mollify the "inexperience" criticism, but she may magnify it too. How often will Obama strike at her experience, how will McCain continue to strike while justifying hers?
On the subject of experience we may come to find out that she has it in spades. On one of the signature issues of this election, energy, she's eminently qualified to debate, and while Obama's signature vote (Iraq) has become de-emphazied, her work on energy (and somewhat tough stance with oil) will become highly emphized.
Finally, considering the national presses repeated insistence that Alaska has become the embodiment of establishment politics, of ethics lapses and free spending, it's going to be tough to deride Palin as a just small state leader, especially as she's apparently shaken up the perception of Alaska politicians in her limited time there.
We'll see.
All I care to add to this is that McCain's choice of Palin encouraged me to contribute more to his campaign.
Can you say the same about Obama's choice of Biden?
Uh, no...because I was already supporting Obama. I wasn't deperately hoping for a VP pick to give me a reason to vote for him.
"Obamatards"
What, did they let the elementary school out early today?
Republican response to Biden: meh.
Democratic response to Palin: huge shit storm of invective and criticism. Why?
Because Biden is a serious person whom normal people can easily envision as being a heartbeat away from the Presidency, while Palin is a religious fanatic and a lightweight. And trust me, the bark will be taken off of her soon enough on many scores. Also, there was a lot of GOP response to Biden's choice, including an entire media campaign predicated on the idea of convincing Hillary supporters that they should support McCain because Hillary was supposedly snubbed. A full-court press in the press is definitely something more than "meh".
Ron -- You and the other 30 percent of Americans like you can bask in the warm glow of your strident Obama support. All you need is another 20.1 percent of the voters. Good luck.
I can bring a bit of local knowledge here, having worked on the campaign of one of the other candidates in the race when Palin came close to winning the Lt. Gov. primary in 2002 and having a lot of contacts in Alaska today.
She's smart, bright, photogenic, well-spoken, conservative and consistent--all great qualities. The only question in my mind is how she'll handle the relentless 24/7 pressure from a news media that will attempt to trap her, trick her and make her look bad...she has very little experience handling this kind of pressure.
As for the "Troopergate" matter, she fired a member of her cabinet, which she had a perfect right to do, and I see it as highly unlikely any laws were broken, though her husband may have made some calls on the matter that won't look ideal. I doubt the investigation will turn up any actual ethics violations, just minor "perception" problems. And I think on a national level 99 percent will not see it as a major problem--Ayers and lobbyist sons will loom larger.
I don't remember the eight jillion comments about Biden here at Althouse or anywhere else. Strange.
Last try didn't post because a couple of us were posting at once. Interesting Blogger error (from the point of view of someone who wrote realtime communications code in a previous life).
What is interesting to me is that McCain has again out fought Obama. I noted a day or two ago that he seems to be getting inside of Obama's OODA (decision) loop, which is one of the big things being taught in the military right now, and part of why the mission against al Qaeda in Iraq went so well the last year or so.
So, Obama and Biden were supposed to have a honeymoon for a couple of days, after that great speech last night at Invesco Field. What is everyone talking about today? Obama's speech last night? Or McCain's VP pick?
Joe Carter, from the very influential (in that crowd) blog The Evangelical Outpost, said this today:
One final thought which I have not seen in the blogosphere as of yet. I am energized. I am a young, evangelical, conservative voter and I did not expect to be so energized by McCain's vice-presidential choice. However, Palin is a woman who has a right philosophy of life and family issues. She glows with the kind of youthful authenticity that gave the pre-Rezko Obama his appeal. She fights oil companies where it makes sense to do so but does not bow before the altar of those who forget that nature is ours to steward, not worship.
I am energized. My conservative friends who are politically savvy are energized. People unfamiliar with her who find out about her story and her political philosophy become energized. Wake up Republicans, wake up conservative evangelicals, it is a new day.
This is going to be a huge plus for McCain in the evangelical subset that Obama was trying to poach from.
AK mom rises to governor and in a desperation move is picked by an old man to be VP, suddenly thrust into the Oval Office on his death....
Man, that would be a great book!
roger demonstrates a weak grasp on basic ethics:
"I think Holly has the story on "trooper gate." Palin protected her sister from an abusive husband..."
See, how conservatives can't grasp ethics? For real.
Even if it's true that he was abusive it's not appropriate for her to use the power of her office to have him fired to help her sister. (Amazing that we have to explain this!!)
She should not use her PUBLIC office for PRIVATE benefit. Simple concept, really.
Indicted Republican Senator Ted Stevens endorses Sarah Palin. (Palin campaign commercial, yanked from her web site this morning, but still up on the youTUBES!)
"But it helps Obama by taking away the "low experience" stigma."
I don't know. It almost magnifies it. People are going to look at Palin, because she is new, and they will realize that Obama's not much more experienced, if at all, than she is-- and he's running for President, not VP.
She should not use her PUBLIC office for PRIVATE benefit.
"In 2006, before Palin was governor, Wooten was briefly suspended for ten days for threatening to kill McCann's (and Palin's) father, tasering his 11-year-old stepson (at the stepson's request), and violating game laws."
Yeah, nobody's going to understand the firing of that kind of law enforcement officer.
And I'm not really sure that "the use of public office for personal benefit" is a winner for Obama.
AlphaLiberal said...
"Indicted Republican Senator Ted Stevens endorses Sarah Palin. (Palin campaign commercial, yanked from her web site this morning, but still up on the youTUBES!)"
Doesn't mean anything. The Communist Party endorsed Obama, but that doesn't make Obama a communist. Find a video of her endorsing him and you've got something.
Read up on the alleged Walter Moneghan scandal and you'll wonder why more wasn't done about such a corrupt asshole. Furthermore, that office serves at the pleasure of the governor--she could have fired him because she didn't like his shoes.
This is a "scandal" only because of payback from the political elite.
But it helps Obama by taking away the "low experience" stigma.
Obama talks about how he'll make change, Palin has actually done it. Big difference.
Obama talks about how he'll make change, Palin has actually done it.
She sold a jet, and took away a construction contract from one company and gave it to another. Pretty good for 18 months in office.
Poor Morty. Just can't get past that "Affirmative Action" thingy. And he thinks people care. Just trying to educate the poor schmoe only makes the derangement worse.
Just donated to a political campaign for the first time. McCain/Palin 2008, 2012. Palin 2016?
Only problem for me is I am one of those people who DON'T see abortion as a big deal either way, and see it as a liability in attracting independents like me. However, I understand that republicans will always have that plank. *sigh*...it's a complex world...
Based on most of the comments here, I guess you believe Sarah Palin is the most qualified V.P. candidate McCain could find.
I also have the feeling there are many, many extremely qualified and respected Republicans that have served their country for quite some time, that are seething at the selection.
As for this: Benjamin said..."I was a little skeptical, but after seeing her speak, I am comfortable having this woman a heartbeat away from the presidency."
I would call that a rather low qualification threshold.
Wade said..."Palin 2016?"
Good Lord, 99% of America had never heard of woman until this morning and Wade is already contemplating her possible election in 8 years.
Prozac anyone?
Sarah who? As a staunch Democrat and a woman, I am ecstatic. McCain once again proves, as Obama pointed out last night, that he truly doesn't get it! I don't know too many women who will vote for a person just because she doesn't have testicles. This recent PTA "leader" is way out of her league. You want to talk about lack of experience.
A mentally compromised (PTSD? beginning of Alzheimers?) septegenarian with two bouts of cancer in his history picks a self described "soccer Mom" whose resume includes being mayor of a small small town and two years as Governor of one of the least populated states in the union. Oh yeah, and then there's that all important PTA experience. Again, as Obama pointed out last night, Can we trust McCain's JUDGEMENT? This choice, once again, proves we cannot!
But after reading some of these posts, I have to always remind myself: there are a whole lot of the ignorant (and as Obama said, actually take pride in being so)self absorbed, petty and mean animals called Republican, who see no irony in saying pro life pro gun in the same breath--bottom of the IQ barrel conservatives that this joke of a ticket might stand a chance.
It's official - the religious right is officially on board with McCain - James Dobson just announced he will "pull the lever" for McCain/Palin
EnigmatiCore said...
"Osama bin Laden is presumptive innocent."
No, he isn't.
To expand on that from a military (e.g. GOP position) as opposed to a legal position (e.g. Leftist)
- OBL declared war on the US
- He is the head of the military chain of command of a force at war with the US
- force by any means can be used to neutralize him without resort to a court of law
Two in the chest and one in the head!
Palin Pick Leaves Bruised Feelings
DENVER -- Though it was high in shock value, the Palin pick left bruised feelings among the short-list contenders who were not picked -- and infuriated some Republican officials who privately said McCain had gone out on a limb, unnecessarily, without laying the groundwork for such an unknown.
Two senior Republican officials close to Mitt Romney and Tim
Pawlenty said they had both been rudely strung along and now "feel manipulated."
"They now know that they were used as decoys, well after McCain had decided not to pick them," one Republican involved in the process said.
Henry said...
Revenant -- how many VPs have been picked because of "regional balance"?
It used to be called Ticket balancing. The only test of a VP is:
- are they an embarassement?
- are they a next plus?
- what interest group, state or votes can they bring to the party?
Palin brings
- GOP Base
- Hillary voters
- Blue collar middle America
a clear win for McCain
Roger said...he has elevated Palin to the front ranks of the party and she is young enough to be a formidable presence for many years--if McCain loses, Gov Palin now has the inside track for the 2012 election.
I like her, but your statement assumes she doesn't implode
OODA = Observe, Orient, Decide and Act.
dac said..."It's official - the religious right is officially on board with McCain - James Dobson just announced he will "pull the lever" for McCain/Palin"
You thought he was considering a vote for Obama??
C'mon...
Moonbat: But after reading some of these posts, I have to always remind myself: there are a whole lot of the ignorant (and as Obama said, actually take pride in being so)self absorbed, petty and mean animals called Republican
Oh my. How can you not see the irony and check yourself?
who see no irony in saying pro life pro gun in the same breath--bottom of the IQ barrel conservatives
You want to explain what's ironic about saying "pro life pro gun" in the same breath? The only way it makes sense is if you think guns = death.
And nice fumble on the IQ ad hom. Do it again please.
alpha - You said "Tried to get her sister's estranged husband fired from the state patrol (the video at the link is worth a watch)." There's a big difference between a legislative investigation and what you said. No one has tied Palin to efforts to the attempted firing.
You made a leap in logic. Of course, logic is rare in lefties. What was the ad hominem? Saying you have a perverted mind? That was no more far fetched than your accusation regarding Palin. You perverted the laws of logic.
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