I'm opening a new post, because there are already almost 200 comments on the last Sarah Palin post.
I'm watching CNN, where Wolf Blitzer is chuckling about Palin's high-school nickname, Sarah Barracuda.
August 29, 2008
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277 comments:
1 – 200 of 277 Newer› Newest»I was a little skeptical, but after seeing her speak, I am comfortable having this woman a heartbeat away from the presidency.
McCain just nuked Obama. All this positive energy comes from political fusion.
Slam-dunk. Game changer.
Eyeglass sales are going through the roof !
"I'm watching CNN, where Wolf Blitzer is chuckling about Palin's high-school nickname, Sarah Barracuda."
Laugh it up, fuzzball.
Also, I thought she made the case for John McCain better than I have ever seen him do.
Clever move in her speech to send kudos to Hillary.
This was a good pick. She will be underestimated by the Democrats, and she will more than hold her own against Biden.
VPILF!
Mwaaa haaa haaa haaa!
It's an earth-shattering moment in American history.
A black man and a woman running in a Presidential campaign, at the same time, on separate tickets.
I feel for Hillary today. I really do. Sorry Hill. 2008 was your annus horribilis.
A repost of the thread thread.
Here is the McCain-Palin contribution link.
For the sake of fairness, Obama-Biden.
From McCain's announcement email (I encourage you all to subscribe to both candidate's email lists. The messages are sometimes more telling than other coverage):
"As a father with three daughters, I can't express how proud I am to choose the first female Republican Vice-Presidential nominee."
It strikes me as odd that McCain is proud of himself for this pick. I get a sense of the connection the campaign is trying to make between having daughters and the choice of Palin, but, really, what's there to be "proud" of yet?
I've been watching CNN as well. Their skepticism is palpable. Apparently they are very interested in experience all of the sudden.
By the way, I love that if you go to Memeorandum right now, almost the entire page is about Palin. There's one nest of items about Obama's speech, swamped in all the real news. If the Democratic candidate gives a speech in a stadium, and the next morning everyone's talking about his opponent's campaign, what does that say?
Someone's already created the website http://www.vpilf.com/
(I mistyped this link earlier).
what's there to be "proud" of yet?
That unlike Gerry Ferraro, Sarah Palin stands a much better chance of actually becoming the first lady VP of the USA.
I'm not much for identity politics. But I'm reminded that I wanted to be an astronaut, when I first saw Dr. Sally Ride.
Cheers,
Victoria
I think I'm in love.
Simon wrote:
what does that say?
That you never can count out a wily old guy who survived 5 1/2 years in Vietnam and 26 in Washington.
He schooled that young lad, today.
Everyone is mixing it up - is it PAH-lin or PAY-lin? Even the McCain people aren't consistent. Anybody know for sure?
I'm going to be looking around on campus to see if any of the young women are wearing their hair in the Palin style.
I doubt it. That's a middle-aged-hottie hairdo.
Here is what the Obama camp said, in their press release about Gov. Palin, via Bill Burton.
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."
Yeah, insult small town America, Boy Genius.
See you in November, loser.
This is an historic moment, but I'm sticking with my hail mary pass analysis of the Palin pick. It was clear in her speech that her target is disaffected Hillary voters. They might go with McCain because of her, or they might believe that McCain putting a lightweight like Palin on the ticket is an insult to women, especially when compared to people like Kay Bailey Hutchison. And make no mistake, being part-time mayor of a village in Alaska and Governor of Alaska (a state whose existence is basically the result of transfer payments from the oil companies) for a little more than a year isn't much in the way of experience or gravitas. Plus, the microscope will now be pointed at her, and already there are reports about her being a creationist, former big Pat Buchanan supporter (most Republicans know what that meant back in the day), etc.
A bold move, but like all bold moves, one that may easily backfire.
Pay-lin. Not Pah-lin.
Like Michael Palin.
However, isn't "Palin" Swedish originally? It would make sense if some Minnesottans etc. were pronouncing it, albeit wrongly in her case.
P.S.: Can't wait for "Around the World With Sarah Palin" about her first official visit abroad.
I'm crazy on that Barracuda!
If she becomes President, will PILF replace POTUS as the preferred presidential code-name?
It is interesting, the Obama/Palin comparison.
Obama won more votes than any primary candidate in history and ran a successful campaign that defeated the Clintons.
Palin was selected for strategic reasons to appeal to women.
Obama = merit.
Palin = affirmative action.
Who knew conservatives were in favor of affirmative action?
OK, I finally have a reason to vote. I've admired Palin from afar (no, no, not that way) for some time; no politician is perfect, but she's as close to the Real Deal as we're going to find anywhere.
Up until this announcement, my feelings were pretty much summed up by a church marquee I saw a few weeks ago that said, "If God had wanted us to vote, He would have given us candidates."
Well, now I have a candidate to vote for; as far as I'm concerned, McCain is just a placeholder. :-) ..bruce..
Note, by the way, that the "Sarah Barracuda" nickname has been in active use since she became Governor, mostly because of the various special interests and corrupt politicians (primarily Republicans) that she's taken on and defeated. ..bruce..
Did Obama get all those votes because of his credentials and experience, Mort?
vbspurs said...
"Here is what the Obama camp said, in their press release about Gov. Palin, via Bill Burton. [¶] 'Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency.'"
See - even Obama's conceding that this pick defeats him!
Mortimer,
Although your criticism of Sarah Palin is misplaced (arguably better qualified than The One), I join you in your implied condemnation of affirmative action.
Regards.
Obama couldn't have gotten anywhere without being a part of affirmative action.
Clearly, he is no Ralph Bunche.
Of course, Palin is no Victoria Woodhull either.
But Palin would agree totally with this sentiment:
"Women are the equals of men before the law, and are equal in all their rights."
As do I.
Palin used to get high, and likes to fish and hunt. Since I like to do all those in the same day, she definitely gets bonus points. Heartbeat away from the presidency, is a different story.
Mortimer, are you trying to seriously argue that Obama's race wasn't a significant factor in his attractiveness to Democrats? To suggest his primary win is entirely on merit is frankly balderdash.
I'm fully willing to admit that the Palin pick was in part designed to exploit that very "victim-loving" tendency. The only thing is, we've got a much better victim :)
Obama won more votes than any primary candidate in history and ran a successful campaign that defeated the Clintons.
Good point Mort. I voted for Obama in the primary solely to help defeat Clinton. I think Hillary would have easily have whipped McCain. I'll vote for McCain in the general election.
Obama = merit.
Palin = affirmative action.
But Palin has accomplished more than Obama has with all his speeches.
Did Obama get all those votes because of his credentials and experience, Mort?
Doesn't matter. Winning votes means winning votes. Oh, and he now has the experience of having won all those votes.
Although your criticism of Sarah Palin is misplaced
I am criticzing the hypocrisy of conservatives. The Palin pick is like when H. W. Bush said Clarence Thomas was the most qualified jurist he could find. Please.
She's an affirmative action pick.
Is it sexist to note the extreme and blatant use of identity politics? Essentially: "Vote for me, I'm a woman."
How about the McCain campaign response claiming that the BHO campaign is disparaging women by referring to the size of the town where Sara was the mayor? Is this playing the gender card? Are we to believe that the BHO folks wouldn't have noted this if Sara was Sam?
And, of course, Sara used the POW POW POW angle.
Why are they pulling out all the stops on day one?
What happened to conservatives? Y'all will excitedly and enthusiastically abandon the practice of consistency and honor in the pursuit of the win? That's the problem, the principles are meaningless. Why are so many of you so excited about an opportunity to show you're total hypocrites?
At least show some discomfort with the identity politics or the lack of CIC knowledge? Otherwise, you look like clowns.
Simon, if that's what you interpret or spin as a concession, you really need to work on that. Pointing out that being the mayor of a village doesn't really help much with regard to becoming prepared for the Presidency (which all VPs must be prepared for) isn't a mistake on the part of Obama. Most people would, for example, question whether someone who was a successful owner of a small store should then become second-in-command of a major corporation. Similar concept here.
somefeller said:
...they might believe that McCain putting a lightweight like Palin on the ticket is an insult to women...
What makes you think she's a lightweight? My first impression is that she is clearly not a dullard. She seemed quite bright and articulate.
I'm amused by all the folks on Kos rabbiting on about her lack of experience.
I think McCain hit this one out of the park. She's attractive, likeable, and a maverick in her own right.
But Palin has accomplished more than Obama has with all his speeches.
That isn't even true. As a state legislator he represented more people for 8 years than she did as mayor of 9,000 people. And his experience in the Senate and as a candidate beats her 2 years as Governor of AK during record oil profits. The comparison isn't even close. He WON a nomination. McCain merely picked her. Your criticism of Obamam would have barely made sense 15 months ago, but makes absolutely no sense now that he's the nominee.
Obama couldn't have gotten anywhere without being a part of affirmative action.
At what points in Obama's career did AA help him? When he graduated in the top ten percent of his Harvard Law School class? Law schools use blind exam grading to prevent accusations of favoritism.
Does this sound like an AA child? "I thought of him much more as a colleague" than a student, said Laurence Tribe, a law professor at Harvard for whom Obama worked.
We're getting a lot of this "isn't it terrible McCain didn't pick an older, experienced woman?"
Democrats giving advice to Republicans. How sweet and bipartisan.
I'll see your Kay Bailey Hutchison and raise you a Diane Feinstein.
She's attractive, likeable, and a maverick in her own right.
Oh, I like her. The Kossacks are idiots. But she's an affirmative action pick.
Wow. What a lightning strike of a day. I'm just glad there's finally someone with executive experience on one of the tickets, someone who has actually governed. This seems very positive for McCain's chances.
Well here is the difference-
At least Obama was elected by the voters-
Sarah Palin was "placed" on the ticket.
She never would have won that spot...
And-
I don't think -we are insulting small towns that's an unfair argument.
It's simply that smaller populations have a lot less complications.
What's the crime rate in that town?
How about Alaska for that matter?
But Palin has accomplished more than Obama has with all his speeches.
Ding-ding! We have the dumbass comment of the day! Lord knows, if someone was reading Obama's resume vs. Palin's, they'd surely think, she has accomplished so much more in life. Please, until McCain gave her the dedazo today, she was an obscure politician from a sparsely populated state.
Bob Barr must be gnashing his teeth in frustration today.
1jpb said...
Is she going to try and beat BHO at b-ball?
I don't think Palin could beat Obama at b-ball. After all, she's given birth to five children. It takes a physical toll. Whereas Obama's efforts to end the lives of millions of children has hardly made him break a sweat.
Lawgiver said...
Mrs Smith Goes to Washington.
Brilliant!
We can smell the fear Mort.
At least show some discomfort with the identity politics or the lack of CIC knowledge? Otherwise, you look like clowns.
If this is what clowns look like, send in the clowns.
If Democrats are all about championing women and identity politics, you should've gone with Obama-Hillary '08.
Don't cry because you left that door wide open, and a canny military commander walked right in.
Well here is the difference-
At least Obama was elected by the voters-
Sarah Palin was "placed" on the ticket.
She never would have won that spot...
And-
I don't think -we are insulting small towns that's an unfair argument.
It's simply that smaller populations have a lot less complications.
Eaxctly. I would call that affirmative action.
On the experience thing, were I inclined to vote Democratic, I think Obama would be a superb Vice President. He's young, vibrant, definitely someone you'd like to see rise to the highest office in the land (assuming you agree with his politics). That's the way I feel about Palin. She's who I want for President in 2012, so let's get her some job-training pronto.
She's also got the benefit, of, for the most part, not having to dissemble her actual beliefs.
Lawgiver said...Good point Mort. I voted for Obama in the primary solely to help defeat Clinton. I think Hillary would have easily have whipped McCain. I'll vote for McCain in the general election.
So you were one of the commandos in Operation Chaos?
Good job soldier!
Mortimer Brezny said...Oh, I like her. The Kossacks are idiots. But she's an affirmative action pick.
Great. Now let's hope she attracts the liberal pro affirmative action voters.
Palin was selected for strategic reasons to appeal to women.
This shallow and blatant appeal to women voters as a reason to sway to this ticket is quite offensive. I'd like to see Hillary come off the bench for that.
She seems to have capable potential, on her own merits, if you like the issues she delivers (and McCain stays alive long enough).
Regardless, it's a real game changer. Hat's off...
We can smell the fear Mort.
I'll bet you $1,000 McCain drops in the polls because of this pick.
Note to Dems:
It's not the small towns. It's the dismissive tone of "small American town".
It smells like "bitter people to cling to guns and religion".
God, you never learn, do you?
I bet Geraldine Ferraro votes for McCain-Palin!
Now let's hope she attracts the liberal pro affirmative action voters.
You mean like Sanda Day O'Connor?
Take him up on it! It's a sure pick.
Heads up, the Gallup Poll just out was taken in Wed: 49% Obama, 41% McCain.
Agree to get the right post-McCain-Palin announcement poll, else it would be skewed.
Give it up Mort. the woman has accomplished more in government than BO ever has. She ran a state for heavens sake. All BO ever did was community organizing (huh?) and run for president.
She is gonna eat Biden's lunch in a debate.
somefeller said...
"Most people would, for example, question whether someone who was a successful owner of a small store should then become second-in-command of a major corporation. Similar concept here."
If it was the shareholders' meeting to decide the new CEO for that major corporation, and for some reason the choice was between a successful owner of a small store and a former legislator, I think the former legislator would be lucky to get a single vote.
Palin used to get high, and likes to fish and hunt.
Like "I inhaled frequently" Obama? But he doesn't fish and hunt does he?
I love that she takes credit for stopping the bridge to nowhere. Like it was a tough stand after the drubbing the GOP took in the '06 election.
It's not the small towns. It's the dismissive tone of "small American town".
The idea that the mayor of Guam is qualified to be President is rather silly. Let's put it that way.
Did she really used to get high?
Okay, that's it. Now I'm going to make a donation.
Like I said in the other thread, I welcome and even relish the Democrats arguments about inexperience here. I am certain the McCain message team is going to parry that argument effectively through the simple technique of reflection. That is: if it is a liability that we have an inexperienced person as VP, how much more of a liability is it to have an inexperienced person as president?
Furthermore, I think that we'll see arguments made that this pick represents a shift away from a Cheney-style vice presidency. I say that's a good thing.
Heh. It's like Mary McDonnell on Battlestar. Awesome.
Mortimer Brezny said...
"I'll bet you $1,000 McCain drops in the polls because of this pick. 12:38 PM"
I just wanted to quote this so that you can't delete it when Obama's numbers continue to stagnate next week while McCain's soar.
I'll bet you $1,000 McCain drops in the polls because of this pick.
How will you distinguish between a drop from the pick vs. a drop from the Democratic Convention?
She's more believable in a flight suit as CIC of the Alaska National Guard than dukakis was in his tank.
Poor Keith and Chris Olbermatt. I'd love to see her interviewed by them.
For the record it wasn't small American town, but:
former mayor of a town of 9,000
Same diff, but just to make it right.
But she's an affirmative action pick.
Isn't every VP? .
It's really inane to even use the term "affirmative action" about a political campaign or candidate -- that goes for you too, VB.
Obama is no more an "affirmative action" candidate because of his race than McCain is an "affirmative action" candidate because of his age.
Or his veteran's status, an "identity politics" characteristic that is commonly included in discrimination codes.
Creationist -- good. One maverick neocon heartbeat away from the Presidency -- good. Relatively inexperienced former mayor of small town -- good.
But this Troopergate thing, if true, would be a dealbreaker for me . . . or it would be if I was planning to vote for anyone anyway.
She ran a state for heavens sake.
Love the past tense. 2 years. Both during record oil profits. It's Alaska. (All you do is manage oil profits.) Sparsely populated. Under investigation for ethics charges. Yes, already. That's not equivalent to Pawlenty or Romney; not even close. "Ran a state" is just about the weakest argument in favor of her.
It's her personality and family background and gender, etc. I'm not saying a strategic, affirmative action pick is BAD. I'm just saying THAT'S WHAT IT IS. McCain didn't choose her because she "ran a state". Please.
"I think that we'll see arguments made that this pick represents a shift away from a Cheney-style vice presidency"
I dunno... I can already see the SNL skit where she's pushing him around the Oval Office in a wheelchair...
Creationist -- good
Show me the link. I keep asking for the link. So spare me the money, just show me the link.
Obama = merit.
Palin = affirmative action.
Obama won the nomination because he's black. I'm not sure if that counts as merit.
In any case, while Palin was certainly in part because of her gender, she's still better qualified to be President than Obama is. :)
Mortimer Brezny said...
"I'll bet you $1,000 McCain drops in the polls because of this pick. 12:38 PM"
I just wanted to quote this so that you can't delete it when Obama's numbers continue to stagnate next week while McCain's soar.
Are you taking me up on the bet?
There's something on her wikipedia page about creationism in schools under her. maybe there's a reference cited there.
I would like to know more about that too.
Mortimer Brezny said...
But she's an affirmative action pick.
Or maybe she's what they used to describe, when it was bald white guys picking bald white guys:
a Ticket balancing Pick?
- Man - Woman
- Old - Young
- non-conservative - Conservative
- Old - high energy
- Old - attractive
- etc
sure she's a woman and it factored in, but at some level, the VP pick has always been about demographics and which groups the VP can help with and how they strengthen the ticket
Quayle? He was not an AA pick :)
Obama won the nomination because he's black.
No, he won the nomination because more people voted for him.
sure she's a woman and it factored in,
Sure. Affirmative action.
Salute to McCain for thinking out of the box and throwing the dice.
I'm stunned how good his campaign machine has become....must have lots of young high tech hotshots behind the scene.
Mortimer Brezny said...
"'But Palin has accomplished more than Obama has with all his speeches.' That isn't even true. As a state legislator he represented more people for 8 years than she did as mayor of 9,000 people. And his experience in the Senate and as a candidate beats her 2 years as Governor of AK during record oil profits."
Sorry, Mort, but you must be pretty desperate to try that bit of MoDo Ninjitsu - state a case that shows one thing and claim it shows the opposite. Her experience as Governor beats any experience in any legislature, period. Experience is not parcelled out in bulk, and she's on a Presidential ticket, not running for Senate. If she was running for Senate, sure, Obama would have more experience than her. But she's not, although I note with considerable satisfaction that she's going to be the President of the Senate while he serves out his last two years in the Senate before vanishing back into the obscurity he so richly deserves.
Mort, Republicans do not go for one issue -- like she's a woman, he's black, he's Catholic, etc.
We go for the full package.
And we had 3 real good choices to pick from: Romney, Pawlenty, Palin.
Romney -- Good man, but super rich man.
Pawlenty -- Good man, but unknown man.
Palin -- Good woman, but unknown woman.
What was the clincher? Her blue-collar background and family, her plus-80% approval ratings as Governor, and the fact that she's an electrifying choice.
A maverick choice.
The kind of choice Democrats should've made for VP and didn't.
No, he won the nomination because more people voted for him.
Sure. And the reason he got more votes than Hillary Clinton -- the more qualified candidate, sad as that may be -- was purely a combination of white guilt and black racism. Affirmative action all the way. :)
I've been to Alaska, or at least Anchorage, several times, even in winter. The karaoke is amazing and everyone drives Saabs.
She's an affirmative action pick.
She should definitely appeal to Democrats then.
Or is Affirmative Action something which harms those it intends to help by calling everything they do into question? We'll have to ponder that one.
vbspurs,
"Don't cry because you left that door wide open, and a canny military commander walked right in."
What does this mean?
I seriously want some of you to explain why in a nano-second you will abandon the supposedly heartfelt concerns about BHO using the race card and supposedly being inexperienced as a CIC? You cannot do this.
You were so quick to dig the hole that you didn't bring a ladder.
There were probably ways that you could have arrived at your elation and had some lame justification, instead you went running down the sycophant path so that there is no longer a way to reverse, without exposing the emptiness of your beliefs.
As a state legislator he represented more people for 8 years than she did as mayor of 9,000 people.
I'm sure they're thankful he was there to vote "Present" on their behalf.
Re: experience -- OK, Obama was elected to Illinois State Senate. What did he do? What significant legislation did he sponsor? How many times did he vote "present"? It wasn't even a full-time job! He was a part-time law school lecturer at the same time.
In the Senate, he has been too busy running for President to even hold meetings of the one committee he chairs. Every election prior to his nomination he won through thug tactics. His "representation" of his constituents is a joke.
Here's her acceptance and breaking the cracked ceiling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5J98Rnft9s
Her experience as Governor beats any experience in any legislature, period.
I guess you'll be voting for Bloomberg for President. Oh, and, by that lgoic, Palin should be at the top of the ticket.
Sure. Affirmative action.
Poor Democrats. It's like they want to use their own ideological stances as negatives.
I saw that when they attacked Condi Rice and Colin Powell, and Hillary saw it first hand from Chris Matthews and Co on MSNBC.
Pathetic.
To put it another way: the core argument against affirmative action is that more qualified people are passed over for less qualified.
This is not the case here. All that qualfies a politician for the job is electibility. You may not like it, but that's democracy.
The job of the VP is to help get the ticket. By definition, the VP who draws the most votes -- from whichever demographic -- is the most qualified candidate.
She's NOT qualified. 19 months as Governor of Alaska, 6 years as Mayor of Wasilla, pop 8600, 4 years on the Wasilla City Council. You might think Obama isn't qualified (3+ years in the US Senate, 7 years in the Illinois State Senate, a district with 20x the population of Wasilla), but how does this possibly pass the laugh test?
Sure. Affirmative action.
Well that, and finally found someone shorter than him.
"I keep asking for the link."
I can't find it, Victoria, but I saw it earlier today. Basically, there was something proposed to ban debate or discussion of creationism in the classroom, and she took the side that if it came up, but was not part of the curriculum, that discussion should be allowed rather than banned.
How problematic that is to people will depend on the person-- and if history is any guide then a person's partisan inclinations will decide exactly how they will respond to that, or any other, issue.
What significant legislation did he sponsor?
Contrast:
Palin: former Ethics Commissioner under investigation for ethics violations in Alaska.
Obama: sponsored ethics reform legislation in Illinois and in the Senate. Passed the toughest federal ethics reform bill since Watergate.
I noticed Palin has a bachelors degree in journalism!
How ironic that the MSM must still try to tear her apart when that training actually means she is over-qualified :)
OMG at the Clinton forum!!
149,000+ posts on Palin as VP
10,000+ threads
3,000+ people reading at once
you think the Hillary folks aren't energized by this?
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html
wikipedia reference about creationism in AK.
Excellent choice! She's already involved in her own abuse of power scandal in Alaska. Tried to get her sister's estranged husband fired from the state patrol (the video at the link is worth a watch).
Those petty personal abuse of power scandals really have legs. Great!
Her hubby works for BP in producing oil from the North Slope of Alaska. (Note: 3 other Republicans are involved in scandals involving oil companies in Alaska, not saying she's involved, though, because I don't know that).
Allright!
I guess you'll be voting for Bloomberg for President.
I'm thankful Bloomberg has experience, because if it wasn't for his actual record of doing an atrocious job running New York City I'd have been genuinely tempted to vote for the man.
Oh, and, by that lgoic, Palin should be at the top of the ticket.
Yeah, she should. Sadly, she isn't, but being next in line is that next-best option.
Obama won the nomination because he's black.
No, he won the nomination because more people voted for him.
Come on mort, you can admit the truth now. Being black has always been catnip for the Democrats. They just can't resist a black candidate.
Look how many black Senators have been elected since Reconstruction, a hundred and thirty years ago: Edward Brooke, Carol Moseley-Braun, Barack Obama. Look how many black Presidential candidates the Dems have picked in that time: Barack Obama. Look at how many big city mayors have been black: Tom Bradley, Harold Washington.
You just can't fool the keen-eyed, clear-thinking Althouse commentariat.
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html
Here's the link about Palin and the teaching of Creationism. Got it from the references in Wikipedia.
From the article "she would not use "religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism" as criteria for selection to the school board."
It's really amazing to me that leftists want to keep talking about credentials and experience. Not just garden-variety spouters here, but even the Obama campaign.
It's beautiful. You are talking about the very thing that is Obama's weakness and the very thing that is going to make Americans in the middle vote for McCain.
Also, you are all really, really smart. That's what you keep telling us.
To put it another way: the core argument against affirmative action is that more qualified people are passed over for less qualified.
This is not the case here. All that qualfies a politician for the job is electibility. You may not like it, but that's democracy.
Nope.
Romeny. More qualified governor. passed over.
Pawlenty. More qualified governor. passed over.
Kailey Bay Hucthinson. More qualified legislator with executive experience in Texas. Passed over.
Bobby Jindal. Governor. Rhodes scholar. Passed over.
Sarah Palin: affirmative action pick.
That former mayor of small town jibe reminds me of the former actor complaint against Reagan.
Oh yeah there was that Governor thing too. In both cases.
Chuck B, thanks!
Here is the pertinent quote from the article:
In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:
"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."
She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.
She suggested it like someone might suggest an energy alternative to gas. No where does it say she is a Creationist.
Unless someone can produce a direct quote where she advocates the theory, it's a non-starter.
I think you just saw the first woman president of the United States. Star quality!
Excellent speech. Enthusiastic, confident, relaxed, intelligent (I bet her IQ's higher than Biden's), comfortable. None of the strident tone you hear from Hillary. A conservative's dream and a lefties nightmare. That's why lefties, like madawaskan, are already starting their smear campaigns.
Flip around the blogosphere, the liberals are going mad dog slobbering insane, accusing her of murdering polar bears for recreation.
That is not good for Obama, the undecided could gravitate toward the ticket that looks sane.
From the article
Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
And a little further down...
In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:
"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."
She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.
I posted a link to the creationist story in the previous thread. Anyway, here's one.
Why is it when the GOP puts forward a pro-life candidate he or she seems to always carry additional kook baggage?
I see alphaliberal is already spreading the lies. No connection between Palin and efforts to fire the state trooper except in your perverted mind.
Oh yeah there was that Governor thing too. In both cases.
Can't have it both ways. If Reagan is youth and inexperience triumphs against the establishment, you just immunized Obama from attack.
Palin: former Ethics Commissioner under investigation for ethics violations in Alaska.
Not only is she presumptively innocent, the buzz is that she really IS innocent. Democrats are going to look like a bunch of idiots if that report exonerates her. Meanwhile, she's successfully gone after members of her OWN party for political corruption. That's something the Republican Party could really use on a national ticket.
Obama: sponsored ethics reform legislation in Illinois and in the Senate. Passed the toughest federal ethics reform bill since Watergate.
Took bribes and got his early jobs through Chicago machine politics. He's a classic example of old politics: vote for empty "reform" legislation while depositing dirty money in your bank account.
Did Obama really say she has no foreign policy experience?
What does he have, a recent campaign vacation to Europe?
Brezny, I will take you up on your bet. I will put up $1000 that McCain's position in the polls will improve after this pick. Let's compare the average of national polls today with the average of national polls a week from now. Email me at bmorris at stanford dot edu to make escrow arrangements.
"Oh, and, by that lgoic, Palin should be at the top of the ticket."
So which is it?
Does experience matter, in which case the Democrats have at best an inverted ticket? Or does it not, in which case these attacks on Palin are grasping at straws?
I understand that a few are arguing that Obama has more experience than Palin. That is very debatable. I look at both of their records, and hers has more meat and less fluff. I can see someone taking the other side, but what I can't see as a credible argument is that Obama has so much more experience than her that it makes it not a problem for him but remains one for her.
Took bribes and got his early jobs through Chicago machine politics.
Can you cite to these remarkable accusations?
He's a classic example of old politics: vote for empty "reform" legislation while depositing dirty money in your bank account.
This is a classic example of pulling accusations out of one's ass.
Palin: former Ethics Commissioner under investigation for ethics violations in Alaska.
Not only is she presumptively innocent
Osama bin Laden is presumptive innocent. OJ Simpson was presumptively innocent. Everyone is presumptively innocent. But many are guilty. Oh, and her mentor Ted Stevens is presumptive innocent, too.
Way to go Benjamin! Please keep us updated.
Come on mort, you can admit the truth now. Being black has always been catnip for the Democrats. They just can't resist a black candidate.
Your sarcasm has convinced me. I'm sure ninety percent of black Democrats would have voted for an inexperienced young white dude from Chicago over Hillary "wife of the First Black President" Clinton, too. It was purely coincidental that Obama just happened to be black.
Just looking ahead (and it may have been noted elsewhere): say McCain wins; then in 2012 we have Palin vs Clinton.
"Osama bin Laden is presumptive innocent."
No, he isn't.
I understand that a few are arguing that Obama has more experience than Palin. That is very debatable. I look at both of their records, and hers has more meat and less fluff.
Obama earned his nomination. Palin is an affirmative action pick. All she has is a resume. He has millions of votes and the executive experience of running a campaign. Affirmative action does not beat merit.
Flip around the blogosphere, the liberals are going mad dog slobbering insane, accusing her of murdering polar bears for recreation.
This is precisely what I mean about being schooled by McCain.
Palin is a red-meat candidate. It drives the other side crazy.
They think it's Affirmative Action, but actually it's a F*CK YOU choice by Senator John McCain.
A woman whose one person reunites everthing they detest -- NRA member, non-elite background, rural small town heartland-born hockey mom, who didn't abort her Down Syndrome baby, and who probably has even less money than Joe Biden ($350,000 per year).
And worse? She's a Republican who ran on her own merits, and WON.
That's not affirmative action. That's action in the affirmative.
(Hey I can Obama-speak too)
I'm a Lefty?
Look-I've voted Republican ever since I can remember.
I worked for Goldwater at the Air Force Academy.
My husband is an active duty commander at Nellis AFB.
I've commented here at Althouse for years as a Republican voter
National Security has always been my top priority.
AlphaLiberal,
Grasping at straws are we? Did 'lil Sarah Palin interrupt your masturbation time over Barack?
No question that a person with a different skin color with Obama's absurd lack of credentials and experience would have been picked.
"Osama bin Laden is presumptive innocent."
No, he isn't.
Yes, he is. Everyone is. That's why it means nothing.
From the creation thing the only conclusion I draw is that Palin is in favor of free speech in schools, at least to some limited extent. Because stifling debate about non-scientific theories is the way to educate 10th graders! Sure.
I was hoping it would be "Phil Gramm in a skirt" (the derisive term used by certain so-called feminists to describe Sen. Hutchison) for what should be self-evident state chauvinistic reasons, but Gov. Palin will do just dandy.
Calling Gov. Palin a "lightweight" isn't much of an insult coming from the camp of the "community organizer" (or was it "activist") and not quite 1/3 through his first term U.S. Senator.
She is good for two reasons
1. Solidifies the Religious and Pro life Vote - Big time support just came in, far more than Bush got. Eliminates their concerns with McCain
2. Hammers on the disaffected Democratic Womens vote. If G.Ferraro has all ready come out and said she is a great choice, just how many democratic women are also going to switch.
The dems have already rolled out the guns on her - unqualified, crook, not ready, hail mary. Why? Because she is a great pick.
Benjamin, CLAP!!!
I had a heroine today in Sarah Palin. But you are my hero today too.
And worse? She's a Republican who ran on her own merits, and WON.
No. McCain picked her over more qualified white men. Pawlenty and Romney.
Civil rights are not provided in military situations. This is common knowledge.
Oh, and AlphaLiberal,
She and her husband bought their house the legitimate way, unlike Obama. They didn't have a criminal help them.
Victoria said: "No where does it say she is a Creationist.
Unless someone can produce a direct quote where she advocates the theory, it's a non-starter."
Of course it's a non-starter, even if she is a Creationist. In fact, I'd think more highly of her intelligence if it turns out she believes God created the world, though I'd think less highly of her intelligence if it turns out she believes God did it in 7 days and exactly as described in Genesis. Whether she is or isn't a Creationist, I admire her for saying students and teachers should be free to discuss it in science class.
But man, IF she abused her power as governor by trying to get her sister's estranged husband fired from his job, all bets are off. Few things would be more unforgivable.
Your sarcasm has convinced me. I'm sure ninety percent of black Democrats would have voted for an inexperienced young white dude from Chicago
If his name were Bill Clinton, sure....
This affirmative action insult is ludicrous and is probably being bandied about by the Democratic lie machine. The Dems have no one like her. She can identify with hard working people, especially women. She actually worked at hard labor- commercial fishing. Who did the Dems have? All they had was a pathetic sob sister who never toiled a day in her life. Woman will vote for McCain because of her. I would bet a lot of Hillary campaign memorabilia is being thrown in the trash right now.
Simon says: Her experience as Governor beats any experience in any legislature, period.
So, in other words, Palin is more qualified to be President than John McCain?
Come on, the idea that just being a Governor for any small period of time is in and of itself better than being a Senator as preparation for the Presidency is ridiculous. I'll agree that executive experience is a good thing, but this isn't a managerial position, and the ability to think about, deal with and address issues of national importance counts for a lot when you're picking a President. All Palin has done is be the part-time mayor of a small town and serve as the person who doles out the revenue from the oil companies to the populace of Alaska for a little over a year.
Please. While I'll agree she's politically a bold move for McCain and a great way to change the conversation, thus far there isn't any reason to believe she's anything other than a mediocrity who got picked to join the ticket for PR and PC reasons.
OK, I was wrong about the thread count, very wrong, but the buzz over there from what I read ran 99% pro Palin and 98% pro MCacin voting
The media hasn't yet spotted the soap opera potentials, is all.
I don't think the media is ideological so much as profit driven.
The Down's syndrome seems to be the only hook for them.
But she needs to be more conflicted to get a narrative going.
Can the interests of soap opera women be held with somebody who is not a soap opera character. There's the question.
The first network to figure it out wins.
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?p=319761#post319761
Yeah, I never thought Madawaskan was a Democrat (that doesn't matter anyway).
I always read her comments with pleasure, FWIW.
Was she a mayor of a town of 5,000 or 9,000? I get conflicting reports.
And, she wants to teach creationism is science classrooms. Just the approach to science we need for a 21st century economy!
Yup: "The campaign has just given up the experience argument."
Sounds like all the criticism from the left is on the question of experience. Every time I hear the question "Do we really want someone with so little experience a heartbeat away from the presidency?" it seems the rejoinder is rather obvious and devastating. It seems to me the balance of experience on one ticket is spot on and completely inverted on the other.
She's the only candidate, on either ticket, who's lovable. And that's a big plus.
Osama bin Laden is presumptive innocent. OJ Simpson was presumptively innocent. Everyone is presumptively innocent. But many are guilty. Oh, and her mentor Ted Stevens is presumptive innocent, too.
Yes, Morty, that's an excellent tactic -- compare the circumstantial case against Palin to the cases against Osama bin Laden and OJ Simpson. That'll definitely win votes for the magic black man.
Like I said, it looks likely that she'll be found innocent of wrongdoing. If she isn't then, yes, that'll be a problem for the McCain ticket. Until then? Not so much.
This affirmative action insult is ludicrous and is probably being bandied about by the Democratic lie machine.
Based on your reaction, it seems to be working.
Yup: "The campaign has just given up the experience argument."
On the contrary: they've just lured the Democrats into making that argument for themselves.
Was she a mayor of a town of 5,000 or 9,000? I get conflicting reports.
9,000.
5,000 is the number of people currently posting Democratic Party talking points in this thread.
Osama bin Laden is presumptive innocent. OJ Simpson was presumptively innocent. Everyone is presumptively innocent. But many are guilty. Oh, and her mentor Ted Stevens is presumptive innocent, too.
Yes, Morty, that's an excellent tactic -- compare the circumstantial case against Palin to the cases against Osama bin Laden and OJ Simpson.
Ok. Compare her to Ted Stevens. Her mentor. Under indictment. Under investigation. Just like Palin.
From the Drill SGT's link, Mike Huckabee's official reaction (!):
Former Republican presidential candidate and Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee: “Sarah Palin is a pleasant surprise for those of us who had hoped that Senator McCain would pick a principled and authentic conservative pro-life leader. Sarah Palin is both principled and authentic. As a Governor, she also brings an important balance of understanding of the critical domestic issues that is needed and that the Democrats have ignored with their ticket. Governor Palin is smart, authentic, tough, and a dynamic choice that will remind women that they may not be welcome on the Democrats ticket, but they have a place with Republicans.”
Anything from Senator Clinton yet?
What is she gonna she say?
"I knew myself. I worked with myself. I am a friend to myself. And Sarah Palin is no myself"
Free speech is not science. Basing "theories" on Bible stories is not science. Palin's assertion puts to question her ability grasp the difference between what's real and what's make-believe. But then I shouldn't single her out. This is a problem that pervades the whole of the GOP.
Oh, the other thing the Democrats will hate is that Palin is a liberated woman who actually likes men and admires her husband, not just tolerates them.
I'm sure ninety percent of black Democrats would have voted for an inexperienced young white dude from Chicago
So you're backing me up, by implying that black Democrats form the majority of the party.
No question that a person with a different skin color with Obama's absurd lack of credentials and experience would have been picked.
True; John Edwards did come in second in 2004.
They didn't have a criminal help them.
Repeating a lie will not make it true. This is why I cannot associate with conservatives.
Do record oil company profits really make a state easier to govern? I thought record oil company profits were supposed to be Bad.
Dac,
don't forget the gun clingy middle America white guys
plain speaking NRA beauty queen hunter union member
So, in other words, Palin is more qualified to be President than John McCain?
Well, McCain has military experience, so he's got an edge over her on the CiC side (although not much of one since he was never that high-ranking).
But other than that? Yes. We're in the ironic position of having both tickets consist of a less-qualified Presidential candidate backed by a more-qualified VP.
She got picked because she's a woman. Plain and simple. Other governor's with more credentials, um, more experience, got passed over. This is sooo AA.
And, hopefully it sticks.
Mortimer, why do you quote me if you don't read what you quote?
All that qualifies a politician for the job is electibility. You may not like it, but that's democracy.
It's insipid to talk about affirmative action in a popularity contest. The same goes for Obama as Palin. The democratic primary system was designed to find the nominee who was most likely to win in November. Obama played by those rules and won.
You may suspect the motives of the people that voted for Obama, but even if every voter who backed him did so because of his race, they did so thinking he would win the presidency in the end.
It's easy to spew the words affirmative action about the African-american man and the woman.
But consider this. McCain is a veteran, a protected status. Certainly some people voted for him because of it. Is it affirmative action that he beat Romney in the primaries?
Biden is an old guy, retirement ready. Is it affirmative action that he beat out younger candidates as Obama's VP pick?
Politics is the triumph of identity over every other consideration. Affirmative action is meaningless in this context.
Carl Cameron cannot get over the fact that this was, and I quote, "the most closely guarded secret in Presidential history".
Yeah, if you didn't read Ruth Anne's blog, Simon's blog for all these months, and my blog for the FlightAware tracker on that Gulfstream jet from Anchorage to Ohio.
BLOGS RULE!
Seven Machos said...
“It's really amazing to me that leftists want to keep talking about credentials and experience.”
Seeing as their two main contenders are neophytes, the hypocrisy machine has to kick in. They are mad because McCain pissed on their parade with a grand slam home run. They are mad because he knocked Obama off the front page. They are mad because, well, because, they are always mad.
After watching her speak I'm not very impressed. Totally lackluster and not ready to lead, as they say.
Until someone shows me how hosting dog sled races in the middle of nowhere translates into being able to negotiate with Iran, I'm going to stick with my first reaction: McCain made a horrible decision that will ultimately backfire. He should have picked Hillary. That would have been the maverick choice, and it would've won him the election.
So you're backing me up, by implying that black Democrats form the majority of the party.
They don't have to form that majority of the party, little brain. It isn't like Obama won the nomination in a popular vote landslide.
Do the math. If blacks hadn't voted along racial lines, Clinton would have clinched the nomination -- without having to rely on superdelegates, even.
I have two daughters that I am extremely proud of (and two sons), and I would like for my girls to be able to do whatever their hearts lead them to be.
McCain has gone from the lesser of two evils to brilliant.
God bless America and John and Sarah!
unbelievable!
Until someone shows me how hosting dog sled races in the middle of nowhere translates into being able to negotiate with Iran
We've already slipped from "tough diplomacy" to "negotiation"? That was fast.
I wonder what concessions Obama is planning to offer. That's how negotiations work, after all.
Madawaskan:
I too saw that "lefty" aspersion thrown your way and figured they mixed you up with some other commenter.
PEOPLE - how soon before Biden sees the undercarriage of the bus?
Mort I would make that bet too - I have $1,000 says McCain sees a bump in a real poll- let's say a Rassmussen poll of lilely voters.
The television is on mute but there's a bird on Fox news with a sign above her head and behind her that reads:
NUTTER
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Now you'd think they'd have seen that and possibly moved over a bit so a different sign shows
Anyway. Your comments have cheered me greatly this morining.
I saw Palin too, turned on the sound for that, I kept waiting for her to put on one of those nun hats with flaps and be taken up by a gust of wind, then fly around the place taking in a bird's eye view.
These waskawee Wepuwicans! huhuhuhuhuhuhuh.
Zachary, you may be a Democrat who is used to its party imploding by picking the wrong people as candidates, but we are not that Party.
Picking Hillary is not a maverick choice. It's a Democrat choice. And today, McCain has finally proved to me and others that he is a REPUBLICAN.
You may not understand the necessity of that, but we do.
The Obama campaign is stepping in it on the experience issue. Someone should ask them if they are proposing a national unity ticket of McCain and Biden.
Free speech is not science. Basing "theories" on Bible stories is not science. Palin's assertion puts to question her ability grasp the difference between what's real and what's make-believe. But then I shouldn't single her out. This is a problem that pervades the whole of the GOP.
That's not how it works. See I should know. I'm a chemist, a scientist, who was raised by creationist parents. Learning to see the truth of the science without feeling as though I was completely rejecting the faith I was raised with was hard. Really, really hard. And for every single religious kid in a science classroom, it's going to be downright impossible to accept scientific truths if you feel that science is the antithesis of your most important beliefs, if you're not even allowed to ask about that. This isn't about getting creationism into schools, it's about being strategic in how you teach science to religious people. Because there's a lot of religious kids who get turned off of science in high school for this very reason. And then we wonder why America is so far behind other countries in math and science.
So this combined thread is the longest I recall here at althouse -- even beating out Let's Take a Closer Look at...
I'll be curious to see how much positive commentary the actual speeches at the Convention engender.
See you Tuesday!
Victoria:
Were you really one of the first with that flight info? If so, good catch.
McCain is a veteran, a protected status. Certainly some people voted for him because of it. Is it affirmative action that he beat Romney in the primaries?
It is asinine to call something "affirmative action" when it involves preferred treatment of a group people can choose to join.
The reason Palin's a woman and Obama's (half) black is that they were born that way. The reason McCain's a veteran and Romney isn't is that McCain wanted to serve in the military and Romney did not. You might as well say that it was "affirmative action" that some people voted for Clinton because he was pro-choice.
Mortimer Brezny said...
…and the executive experience of running a campaign.
Hold on. Let me stop laughing.
You really did not write that in all seriousness did you? I mean, it was tongue in cheek right? You should issue a spew alert when you put out such things.
Twin Peaks had a larger population than the city she governed. :)
Hugs, George! And greetings to your daughters. :)
I'm off...I don't know if I'll keep to my word this time, but I gotta work out this raw energy on the elliptical.
Ciao guys!
McCain/Palin '08!
dadvocate:
"I see alphaliberal is already spreading the lies. No connection between Palin and efforts to fire the state trooper except in your perverted mind."
Hey, I posted a link to an Alaskan news report with interviews. You posted a denial and an ad hominem insult.
That tells me you got nothin. I've got backup to what I'm saying.
Republicans just have a massive blind spot when it comes to ethics.
Sarah Palin is under investigation.
"However, Mrs Palin is not entirely free of scandal. She is currently under investigation by the state legislature for possible abuse of power surrounding the dismissal of the commissioner for public safety, Walter Moneghan. Mr Moneghan alleges that he was fired because he was reluctant to sack a state trooper who was involved in a bitter divorce and custody battle with her sister, Molly McCann."
In office, what, two years? And she already has her own abuse of power scandal. Hey, she gets things done!
AJ, no I'm sorry. I got it from Carlos Echavarria (who I H/T'ed).
However, since I got 7000 hits about that blogpost last night, with Althouse and LGF readers having read it, whereas he has a more modest blog, I think I dessimated the info a little more on Althouse at least. :)
I noticed that Fox were the only ones who interviewed the manager of the airport, though.
I'm sure they read LGF. ;)
Ciao!
All I care to add to this is that McCain's choice of Palin encouraged me to contribute more to his campaign.
Can you say the same about Obama's choice of Biden?
Mortimer still hasn't responded to Benjamin's serious offer to take him up on the 1000 dollar bet. I wonder why?
FLS said,
"Repeating a lie will not make it true. This is why I cannot associate with conservatives."
Well that rules out pretty much every political party. Do you vote at all?
"What is it exactly that a VP does every day?"
Rah rah! McCain thinks you're stupid.
To be sure, it's an identity politics pick; I think her speech clearly justifies that charge.
But so what? That is a large part of the VP pick.
We'll see her debate.
We'll debate her qualifications.
We'll decide if she could step into the presidency.
Being a inexperienced women does not disqualify her, and the fact so many liberals are charging that immediately speaks volumes of their true viewpoints.
No, he won the nomination because more people voted for him.
oh really? this explains why he got more delegates in places like texas and nevada while hillary got more votes? oh..and equalled her delegate count in n.h. while she got mroe votes? so much for that 'more votes' argument. try again.
here's a line which i think mccain/palin will likely be using: while others talk of change, some of us have been making change.
i'm sorry, but her record as an executive trumps all of those "present" votes by barry.
Chip:
"Nutter" is the mayor in Philly. Maybe his plane from Denver got detoured thru Dayton and that was an airport chaffeur's sign.
The Althouse Obamabots are scared shitless. It's highly amusing.
For those Dems who question Palin's experience, remember Jimmy Carter who ran for president with only slightly more, if any, experience.
chip ahoy - you'll help Obama win votes in Ohio, Nutter Center at Wright State University.
Until someone shows me how hosting dog sled races in the middle of nowhere translates into being able to negotiate with Iran…
Please tell us all here where negotiating with I ran has ever accomplished anything over the past thirty some years. Negotiating with Iran is insanity; doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results.
They don't have to form that majority of the party, little brain. It isn't like Obama won the nomination in a popular vote landslide.
Ah, you're saying that Obama won more delegates not because he did so well in the popular vote, but because of the CAUCUSES, in majority-black states like
Iowa
Alaska
American Samoa (territory)
Colorado
Idaho
Kansas
Minnesota
North Dakota
Nebraska
Washington state
Maine
Hawaii
Texas
Wyoming
Guam (territory)
Thanks for clearing that up. Next time I go to North Dakota, I'll look for all the soul brothers there.
ZPS said: McCain made a horrible decision that will ultimately backfire. He should have picked Hillary.
But then he would have to hire an official food taster.
I think McCain made a brilliant choice.
vbspurs said
Anything from Senator Clinton yet?
What is she gonna she say?
"I knew myself. I worked with myself. I am a friend to myself. And Sarah Palin is no myself"
LOL!
It's the Media that's mainly scared shitless.
Hooray!!!!!!
And today, McCain has finally proved to me and others that he is a REPUBLICAN.
Victoria, you are as delusional about Palin as the Obamatards are about Obama. He didn't pick her because of her politics. But keep flying high, you deserve it.
As I said here earlier: as long as politicians do exactly the opposite of what people like ZPS want them to do, they can win elections.
FLS: Demanding a recount? Already?
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