ADDED: Well, my commenters are giving me a hard time. How dare I criticize Sarah Palin for a non-error! My point -- as the second link showed -- was that since she had the format "Barack the [blank]," she should have had the reference to what Obama said to Joe the Plumber, that he wanted to "spread the wealth around." It's valid to peg him as a big spender -- though "wealth spender" is an awkward expression -- but it's more damaging and resonant to scare us about wealth redistribution.
October 21, 2008
Did Sarah Palin really call Obama "Barack the Wealth Spender"?
Is CNN reporting it wrong or is it the case that Palin cannot be trusted with phrase-turning? It should be "Barack the Wealth Spreader."
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221 comments:
1 – 200 of 221 Newer› Newest»I don't see either terms being wrong.
Agree with methadras, he'll spend it spreading it. Simply economics based on governmental bureaucracy.
Ooooooooo, spender vs. spreader. What shall we make of this? Ooooooooooo.
Yup, either works for me.
And even if there was a slip of the tongue, I would've thought that that kind of cheap "Daily Kos" criticim was below you, Ann.
Sarah the Tax-cunter. I mean, cutter.
A distinction without a difference.
I am convinced that so many highly educated women across America are lining up to play Vivian to Sarah Palin's Elle Woods.
Come on, Ann.
Did you just think that Sara Palin confused Spending with Spreading?
Golly.
-XC
...Palin cannot be trusted with phrase-turning?
Really? Really? Compared to the human Gaff-o-matic that is Joe Biden (he's lovable!) are we really making the a trust issue out of the difference between two fairly closely related adjectives?
Wow.
Manure you spread.
Wealth you spend.
It was Barack that got the phrasing wrong. Palin is correcting him.
Spending?
Spreading?
Ashley Dupré would never confuse the two.
Let's see the video. CNN is, I had understood, a video news outfit; they didn't have a camera there?
And even if it was a slip of the tongue, this is thin gruel; shall we open the lengthy tome of slips of the tongue and malapropisms in speeches by Obama and Biden?
A much more important distinction is that it's income not wealth that is being taxed and spent/spread.
Wealthy people have a much easier time avoiding taxable "income events" than those trying to accumlate wealth for the first time.
Thus, Obama's plan is much more punitive against the non-wealthy than even McCain/Palin suggests.
Obama talks like a guy who made his nut in one year, from one book, with no downside risk of capital under the Bush tax rates. Up goes the ladder for anyone else behind that has to grind it out over decades with capital at risk under Obama's tax regime.
It's sad, really.
Let's hope we survive international crises that Biden and Albright predict, so that Barney "there should be tax increases" Frank may help us find the answer to this linguistic puzzler.
Palin is correct in either context.
Why the parsing of Palin's remarks and disinterest in Biden's remarks made yesterday?
Don't go all Kos on us. At least feign some level of objectivity, please.
I don't see the problem, unless you are distinguishing between wealth and income here. What must be remembered, and is routinely ignored or forgotten by those advocating government spending, is that spreading the wealth invariably results in reduction of overall wealth.
So, we really don't know if she said the right thing for the right reasons, or for the wrong reasons.
Did George Soros buy althouse and make Ann sign a nondisclosure agreement? Is Ann vacationing in some warm place while an Obama campaign operative runs this site?
What other explanation can there be for the sharp left turn?
"Wealth spender" is much more accurate.
i.e. Obama will help your two sons spend your estate Ann. Just saying.
God forbid a Republican should be criticized or questioned.
The Horror!
seriously? the two terms are quite distinct to me. if the "spender" comment is in reference to tax credits, then it makes more sense to say that Obama's spreading--distributing--the wealth rather than to say that he's "spending" the wealth--what's he buying with it? he's spending it on tax credits? i don't buy the conflation of the two terms.
that said, i also don't think it's a huge deal for her to have conflated them--her meaning is pretty clear--but it's pretty obvious to me that the terms do not have the same meaning and "spender" doesn't make the same kind of sense that "spreader" does, nor does it call attention to Obama's own language in talking about his own plans
Obama's big spending plan is irresponsible, and it would be irresponsible even if he was following John McCain's tax plan. The problem is out of control spending.
The spreading is just one form of spending.
Barack's going to do things that are unpopular, you know? He's going to do things that conservatives will hate. And that moderates won't like. And that liberals will be queasy about. He's going to need your support, Althouse. To do unpopular things.
Michael H:
Why the parsing of Palin's remarks and disinterest in Biden's remarks made yesterday?
Yeah, it seems weird Ann is so concerned with Palin's words, when Joe had this to say yesterday.
There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision'," Biden continued. "Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound.
What does the government spread that they do not spend? Money wise of course. It may have been a Freudian slip, but either works perfectly well for me.
Trey
Rich B, Michael_H -- Didn't you see the pumpkin post? That racks up a lot of neutrality credits.
AJ Lynch wrote: 'Wealth spender' is much more accurate.
Obama's plan will end up spreading dearth.
Obama: a stealth Dearth Vader
Michael, Rich, Donn - don't you think your comments are getting dangerously close to AlphaLiberal's tactic of complaining that "Althouse didn't address this topic that I want to talk about!"? Why is it different?
But seriously (sort of), assume for a minute that spreading the wealth around is, as Obama claimed, good for everyone.
Wouldn't it be more fair and efficient if we just skipped the middleman by leaving government out of it?
Once a year, everyone in the 40% who do not now pay any taxes simply ring the doorbells of the 60% who do and say, "Give us each $5,000 to spend or we'll tell Uncle Barack and he'll put you in jail where you won't be able to create any more of your stupid selfish wealth to spread to us so we can spend it on things like donations to Uncle Barack's reelection campaign TV commercials and creepy jack-o-lanterns."
What! No Althouse critique of Palin's shoes? I am outraged, outraged I tell you.
I too am far more concerned with Biden's remarks, and I do not believe they were a gaffe, but an inoculation.
Biden is the campaign's human equivalent to the Friday afternoon document dump. Clinton repeatedly used the same tactic to defuse a situation by claiming it was old news.
If so, it would be brilliant use of Biden's lack of a common sense filter and garrulous stump style.
You (in the 60%): How is that fair?
Me (in the 40%): It's not fair. But it's Democratic!
Some times this place feels like the girls bathroom in high school.
And not in a good way where they are showing each other their cootchs and stuff.
From the article:
'Tito is not pleased with how the Barack Obama campaign and some of the media friends there have been roughing up Joe the Plumber,' Palin said, after accusing the Obama campaign of 'investigating' Wurzelbacher’s background.
Excellent!
lol - I don't know that I would get worked up about that either way.
Oh well, some folks think cucumbers taste better pickled.
"Some times this place feels like the girls bathroom in high school."
I don't want to sound like I'm opposed to spreading the well being or anything but should you really be feeling high school girls bathrooms?
"Spender" is more accurate than "spreader" because when the government takes money to give to others, less than 50% of the money actually makes it to those others. Government is so inefficient that there's always more spending than spreading going on.
On Saturday you stated that it was disconcerting that Sarah Palin could pass for an actor and now she can't be "trusted" to turn a phrase?
If your a taxpayer you're going to be grabbing your ankles and spreading them while Barney Frank and Chris Dodd 'fix' the banking system. It will be BO doing the spending.
Apparently it's more important that Sarah (perhaps) misspoke than that Obama is a committed marxist.
It should be "spreader" to chime with the Obama statement made to Joe the Plumber and to resonate with the idea of redistribution of wealth. It's fine to say he'll be a big spender. It's not an error, but I would assume that she'd said "spreader" to keep the Joe the Plumber thing going.
Jeez, I'm not even bashing her. I'm questioning CNN.
"
Jeez, I'm not even bashing her. I'm questioning CNN."
I call bullshit.
It's not an error, but I would assume that she'd said "spreader" to keep the Joe the Plumber thing going.
I think she doing that just fine thank you. Isn't the complaint a bit pedantic, if the idea is spread and widen the meme?
And we're not bashing you. Just questioning your comment.
In feminist girls' bathrooms they have urinals just to show they can too. But the floors are very messy
" I'm questioning CNN."
Ohhh. For a minute there we were afraid you didn't love us anymore!
obama is a liar, conniver and a magician. he even smiles like a joker. Palin has more experience than that chihuahua.
I'm really disappointed. She used to be my hero.
I'm not talking about Palin. I'm talking about Althouse.
*sigh* The ugliness continues to spread. Is it November 5th yet?
Jeez, I'm not even bashing her. I'm questioning CNN.
Anything but sycophantic praise will be regarded by the Repubs as bias, attacks, "in the tank."
I don't know what Palin actually said but wealth spender is a better tag for Obama than wealth spreader.
Most Americans are not wealthy and want as much wealth spread their way with as little effort as possible.
But most Americans get a little nervous when they hear about spending by the government because they know it's just lawyers with power spending other people's money.
Obama can call himself the wealth spreader. McCain/Palin need to call him the wealth spender.
Along with unqualified, arrogant, Muslim, communist, Afrocentric, big eared, purple lipped, wimpy, arugula eating Euro-weasel.
AlphaLiberal said...
God forbid a Republican should be criticized or questioned.
The Horror!
You've become a farcical putz. Really, this isn't about criticism. This is about leftists and liberals always getting wrong. Always. Besides, we already know what happens when your little anointed one gets questioned by the average citizenry.
"Wouldn't it be more fair and efficient if we just skipped the middleman by leaving government out of it?"
Can't have that, it is what Christians do.
Trey
How about obama the wealth grabber?
He should show a little more gratitude to the press for all the hard work they've done on his campaign.
this campaign and the associated blogging about it cannot end soon enough. The cancer appears to be metasticizing
Steph said...
seriously? the two terms are quite distinct to me. if the "spender" comment is in reference to tax credits, then it makes more sense to say that Obama's spreading--distributing--the wealth rather than to say that he's "spending" the wealth--what's he buying with it? he's spending it on tax credits? i don't buy the conflation of the two terms.
that said, i also don't think it's a huge deal for her to have conflated them--her meaning is pretty clear--but it's pretty obvious to me that the terms do not have the same meaning and "spender" doesn't make the same kind of sense that "spreader" does, nor does it call attention to Obama's own language in talking about his own plans
You really need to go back to nuance school. Yeesh!!!
I think we get her message either way...
What's sad is to see the people here in Bambi's corner and how unhinged they are at the slightest hint that a Republican might have a redeeming value or valid argument.
Palin's slammed while Biden gets a pass on his Kinsleyism: Bambi is not ready for the presidency, and he (Bambi) will be tested immediately by foreign powers anxious to test his fake smile and education.
Not good for America to have a weak, shallow president, but that's the beauty of elections: we get to live with the choices we make.
How interesting it will be to live in a world where America is a second-rate power.
"I don't want to sound like I'm opposed to spreading the well being or anything but should you really be feeling high school girls bathrooms?"
Well once I got caught feeling up a girl in the stall in the girls bathroom when she started giggling and we got in a lot of trouble.
But we heard a lot of good gossip before we got busted.
Ann,
I confess to possible projection of my experiences onto your post. Many people I know don't like Sarah Palin (I live and work in a wealthy liberal Jewish community), but most of the women whom I've talked politics with *HATE* Sarah Palin with a passion usually reserved for men who leave their wives for much younger women. So my apologies for the unfair assumption on my part.
So how should we refer to the last 8 years? Wealth spending? Wealth wasting? Debt spending?
C'mon people, help me out.
I got it: Debt spreading.
There is a lot of hate for Palin, isn't there? Somehow she doesn't scare up America's foreign enemies, but she sure unhinges the left.
Love all the images of people beating Palin up and socking her in the jaw. How fun! How American! How harmless!
I mean, we don't like her, so we can virtually lynch her and it's all good clean fun!
(btw, I'm using virtually accurately here.)
Buford Gooch said...
"I call bullshit."
Based on what? Her original post, read literally, asked only whether Palin misspoke or was misquoted.
Hasn't Palin's hair been mentioned yet?
Because someone really needs to criticize her hair. Can you believe her hair?
And after that, we can talk about the way her kids are dressed. Clearly not leadership material.
miller said...
"Not good for America to have a weak, shallow president, but that's the beauty of elections: we get to live with the choices we make."
The flip side of that coin is that we have to live with the choices other people make, too. Only for a while, to be sure, but we shouldn't underestimate the permanence of the damage that can be done in the next two years if the Democrats are halfway awake and the Senate GOP are spineless.
C'mon people, help me out.
I don't know about you, but I'm personally better off than 8 years ago.
And it's hard to think of other's welfare in my neighborhood.
Just sayin'
I got it: Debt spreading.
Let's talk about whether heat flows or cold spreads.
Can someone explain something? Numerous Republican types have now taken to castigating those who are voting early in record numbers around the country. (I posted this in a different thread below but no-one has explained it).
What is there to protest? People can vote absentee and, to my knowledge, no-one has yet protested absentee voting. This is just another form of absentee voting. Are Republicans also opposed to absentee voting? What's the problem?
Here's a funny video of one Republican who says he just voted a few days before but these people (minorities) voting, is just terrible.
Video of Republicans heckling voters. (People who don't get the concept. You want voters on your side).
But Biden, well, that's gravitas with a capital G. He could say some shit like
"Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound."
you know, sensless BS. But it still sounds like honey, like the loving arms of Mother State comin' to rock me to sleep.
Roger J. said...
"What has Governor Palin to elicit such hatred among a bunch of jewish princesses?"
She's prettier and more successful than they are. What more do you need? ;)
I know what he meant, I know what she meant.
There's really no need to make it complicated.
Andrew Berman: I am really curious about what they HATE Sarah Palin. Hate seems such a repugnant emotion. What has Governor Palin done to elicit such hatred among a bunch of jewish princesses? Says far more about their value systems than it does about Governor Palin. Hatred--and I thought that was strictly a republican issue.
Honestly, I thought Ann had brought Alpha Liberal in as guest blogger without announcing it.
Well, my commenters are giving me a hard time.
That's because your commenters are for the most part crazed, dittohead shut-ins.
Last 8 years?
Well the country's balance sheet seems to have been quietly destroyed by our own Congress. Though I'd say my own has done well.
For the record, I did not jump on Althouse over this post.
I only jump on Althouse when she is in the mood.
AJ:
I only jump on Althouse when she is in the mood.
And how often might that be? Inquiring minds want to know.
Freeman Hunt said...
"Spender" is more accurate than "spreader" because when the government takes money to give to others, less than 50% of the money actually makes it to those others. Government is so inefficient that there's always more spending than spreading going on.
Look, in order to spread the wealth you must spend the wealth. What no one seems to be asking is, is why is the instinctive reaction of someone like Mr. Barely to have the need to spend the wealth or spread it. This is what leftists and liberals do. They spend. Does the intake and outlay of Mr. Barely's campaign money any indication of how he is managing the money from his campaign. He is spending gobs and gobs of it, more than ever before him, to become the president. If people can't see how he manages money in this regard, then they won't really see what he is going to do when he grabs ahold of the federal budget. If any of you think that 55% of the federal budget going to entitlements is bad, then see what Mr. Barely does with it if he ever becomes your savior.
Did I miss Ann's post on Joe Biden's comments about Obama being tested after he becomes president? I know it's not quite in the same league as the Wealth Spender. Was it sandwiched in between the third or fourth Sara Palin post?
I'm just wondering what income level the majority of you are in, because obviously your not in the middle/lower income tax bracket. If you were then it would mean something to you in either way the words were addressed in reference to the economy. I don't hear anyone crying about the state of the current economy, which will effect WHOMEVER gets elected and the campaign "PROMISES" that were made by both candidates. Neither candidate can afford to put into motion what they are promising in their first term, the current administration made sure of that. So how dare you turn your back on the true issue at hand, that in comparison to Pres. Bush and VP Cheney we all are suffering in the "lack of department". They will ride off into the sunset on all of the money they made off of the 2 wars that we as tax payers are footing the bill for, the contracts for the "rebuilding" of Iraq, and the oil gauging that both are heavily invested in. So instead of focusing on the misspoken words from the campaign trail, mull over the truth about what's going to actually happen when the next President steps foot in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Based on what? Her original post, read literally, asked only whether Palin misspoke or was misquoted.
Are you retarded or are you just ingorant as to why false dilemma is a logical fallacy?
Alpha wrote: "Video of Republicans heckling voters."
I watched it, every second of it. I was angry when I pulled it up because as an American I find any attempt to inhibit lawful voting repugnant.
There was none of that in the video.
There was no heckling in the video. There was an Obama supporter in the middle of the McCain folks, he was treated well and kindly he said.
Alpha, you are a liar.
You have no honor.
You will no longer have my respect or attention.
Please everyone, watch the the video that Alphaliberal calls heckling. Then pay him no mind.
Trey
The visceral hatred of Palin is clear to me. But I'm in a Northeast city which is no Jewish stronghold. The women who I have witnessed become unhinged (that is the only way I can describe some of reactions to her) are middle age, middle class, engineers, white Catholic or Presbyterians. They were all pretty level headed until we discussed her. HER! And it is Palin, not a policy thing.
I dispise Obama's politics but I can't hate any politician (except Kerry for his Winter Soldier activities) on that visceral a level.
AlphaLiberal said...
"Can someone explain something? Numerous Republican types have now taken to castigating those who are voting early in record numbers around the country ... What is there to protest?"
I haven't seen anything like that, but if it's as you describe, I don't understand it either. I can understand criticizing a hasty or premature vote, but there are many people whose minds are already made up - it would not matter what happened between now and election day, their vote would be the same. Of course I can understand that - I'm one of those people. If Jesus Christ Himself appeared to personally bless and endorse Senator Obama, I would still be voting for McCain, so why wait when I can vote today?
That said, I suppose my question must be, are you sure that they're protesting and heckling the timing of the vote or its content?
Trinity said...
"I'm just wondering what income level the majority of you are in, because obviously your not in the middle/lower income tax bracket. If you were then it would mean something to you in either way the words were addressed in reference to the economy."
Presumptuous, much?
Bob: then my question to Alan Berman is also to you--why the visceral hatred? That's absolutely sick--honest to god sick. This is a political campaign for god's sake.
“There are really only two ways to interpret Sarah Palin -- try to discern as best we can what she intended or make it up."
Says Ann Althouse. Of course, I don't believe that. Do you? Really?
(Obviously inspired by most recent Althouse post on Justice Thomas)
Phrase check:
"Spreading the wealth" is an old cliché with positive connotations; to all but Obamaoids it is obvious Palin has made a neat turn of phrase here & meant what she said:
Caveat Opulentus Homo. In Obama's dictionary "Opulentus" means over $50,000 per annum.
Bissage
Spending conflates to spreading. You're a genius re, um, connections. You’re Eliot, T. S. not Spitzer.
And BTW: as a viet nam vet I do confess to viscerally hating John Kerry.
Actually Trinity's got a point. Obama promises to cut taxes for 95% of us. We should all vote for Obamna and get our handout.
The only thing more fun than voting ourselves funds out of the public treasury is voting ourselves funds out of the public treasury and blaming the resulting fiasco on Bush.
Simon just stating an observation, because unlike most, actions and facts not promises mean the most to me. I pretty sure that those on here that CRY the loudest are the ones who want to remain the EXCEPTION to the benefits of wealth and splendor!!!!!
Is it time to metion Palin's lipliner?
My taxes will go up 30% under Obama/Biden and the GDP will move from 33% state spending to 46%, but Palin has tattooed lipliner!!1
Plus, she was in a beauty pageant and went to a community college. What a dolt.
Sofa King said...
Are you retarded.....
I Am We Todd Did. I Am Sofa King We Todd Did.
I'm not saying give out handouts, what I'm saying is that we need to build a better country for ALL, not just for 2/3 of it. If you consider helping people out as a bad thing, then HENRY you are a very sad, sad person. I don't care who gets elected as long as Whomever it is thinks about all of us who make up the ACTUAL working/taxpaying part of the country!!!!!
OT.
Will an Obama presidency create more conservatives than even Reagan could have dreamed?
"Simon
Roger J. said...
"What has Governor Palin to elicit such hatred among a bunch of jewish princesses?"
She's prettier and more successful than they are. What more do you need? ;)"
Egad Cedarford & his sock puppets re Jooz.
Newsflash: Peggy Noonan & MoDo, somewhat beyond the princess stage in life, are Irish American faux elites & have severe case of Palin Envy. As, judging from this Blog, do some non Irish or non Jews.
I repeat myself but one would think from Peggy's Locust Valley Lockjaw & sesquipedalian vocabulary that she is to the manor born. Gee, she went to Fairleigh Dickenson? Not that there's anything wrong about that! It just doesn't give one the right to look down on Sarah Palin, my dears. Peggy is MoDo's clone without the playfulness.
@AJ Lynch
That's not really OT.
Trinity:
I must have been born unlucky. All my life, I have lived in the working / taxpaying part of the country.
Pogo, under Obama my direct tax burden will go down and I'm pissed about it. I object to being taxed indirectly, which is how Obama will make up the cost of his cuts and credits.
I also prefer not to live in a bankrupt country.
Chicken Little:
I may have already created one when I asked Althouse if it was OK with her if Obama helps her sons spend her estate.
Trinity said...
I'm not saying give out handouts
Actually, yes, yes that is what you are saying. Why are you too ashamed to admit it?
I love how the board picks and chooses a topic out of a comment to focus on....AJ did you by chance attend the University of Political Spin? I love it!!!!!!
Well Sofa King why don't you give the government the money to run itself on out of your VAST bank account and then if the money that is made is given back to the nation then there isn't a problem about spending nor spreading the wealth, is it?
Henry said:
"I also prefer not to live in a bankrupt country."
That is a huge point. Fannie- Freddie & Bailout I (am I the first to use the term Bailout I?) have shown us we have enormous hidden liabilities. Are there more being hidden from us til after election day?
Trinity asked:
"I love how the board picks and chooses a topic out of a comment to focus on....AJ did you by chance attend the University of Political Spin? I love it!!!!!!"
Of course I did. It gets boring being stuck on "the board" so I signed up for some correspondence courses.
Inwood: you probably should adjust sarcasm meter: I mentioned jewish princesses because that was what Alan Berman had cited; So the question remains: why the visceral hatred? And please note I also asked the same question of another poster who had cited examples of Palin hatred among non-jews.
Perhaps you can answer it: why such visceral hatred? That again is supposed to be a republican thing.
Trinity said...
"Simon just stating an observation"
You stated "I'm just wondering what income level the majority of you are in, because obviously your [sic.] not in the middle/lower income tax bracket." That is an assertion masquerading as a question, not an observation.
"actions and facts not promises mean the most to me."
Then you cannot possibly vote for Obama, who offers nothing but promises - and promises made at the head of a long train of broken promises and flip flops, at that.
"I'm not saying give out handouts, what I'm saying is that we need to build a better country for ALL, not just for 2/3 of it."
Then you cannot possibliy vote for Obama, who will produce a worse country for all of us, despite his claim to only be trying to make a worse country for the top 5%.
"I don't care who gets elected"
Oh, come now... You've commented here three times and already made plain that I have more chance of getting a threesome with Tina Fey and Governor Palin than Senator McCain has of getting your vote.
There seems to be quite a bit of hostility and anger directed at our hostess with the mostess the Divine Miss A.
I am here to bring some civility to the proceedings.
Relaxation is such an important component of life. Tension and stress is unhealthy.
Let's all take a deep breath, hold it, and release it slowly. Now let's stretch out arms above our head, reach for the ceiling, and now just let your arms fall.
How is everyone feeling now?
I am getting so tired of the republican lies and fact twisting poop that comes out of their mouths.
Fact: Obamas tax plan calls for a taxbreak for 95% of TAXPAYING americans who make less than $250.000,00 per year. That does not mean that the 40% of NON TAX PAYING americans will get a government check.
What's wrong with that, I ask? I strongly believe that someone making $250.000,00 or more can do well with 3% or 4% less, compaired to someone making $50.000,00 per year. That person would surely appreciate to keep $250,00 or $300,00 per month to put food on the table or pay bills.
All of you republicans should listen closely to what is said and maybe sometimes get your information from other sources than Limbaugh, Hannity and the likes.
BTW, I thought Moose Palin to be the dumbest of all dumb republicans. I was so wrong. Michele Bachmann trumped her the other day.
I call for the media to do a "penetrating expose" into republicans IQ. Half of have will have a number that's less than they have real teeths in their mouth
Trinity let me extend my answer to you.
Obama promises to "cut" taxes by combining tiny income tax cuts with lots of new credits.
One new credit, that I more or less agree with, is an extension of EIC.
Other credits are nonsense. I'm going to do great. I'll get to deduct more for the interest I pay on my mortgage. I'll get a credit for "saving". I'll get a credit for child care. I'll even get a credit for paying taxes.
I suspect that I'll end up paying no income taxes at all or possibly getting money back from the feds, which is insane. I should be paying income taxes. I make enough and the country is broke enough.
Like many of Obama's 95% I will still be paying payroll, property and sales taxes -- flat taxes that are not progressive at all.
In addition, since Obama will pay for his taxes by hitting up business, the government will still get a chunk of my money, but indirectly.
The end result is a system where most citizens pay no income tax -- our most progressive tax -- but end up with no more buying power because they pay more for products and services.
It doesn't help poor people to put money in their pocket that's worth less.
It doesn't help our system to hide and disguise the cost of our government.
JMW2006:
Could you kindly ask your question about IQ again?
But this time, would you fix the misspellings and other typos?
Jmw2006-
From Barack Obama's website-
"Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples."
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strength.
gotta tell you jmw2006, based on your post, you are clearly two standard deviations to the left on the IQ scale (which, if you had read the Bell Curve, would know was a racist conservative construct).
My tax burden will go up under Obama.
I make a decent living, not rich by NYC standards. Rich, if I lived in ND,- but middle class in NYC.
My total comp with base and bonus is over 250k. My stock options bring me another 30-50k annually.
What is important to me is that I am still able to have the weekly Tibetan maid, monthly back/crack/sack wax, the rare clumber attend doggy day care weekly for stimulation, I purchase one Prada item monthly, dindin out at fabulous restaurants 3-4x weekly, drinkies out 1x weekly, my timeshare in Ptown/FireIsland/Oqunguit, my fabulous BMW, my fabulous loft at it's fabulous address, my kiehls facial products, memberships to two fabulous gyms, yoga weekly, acupuncture monthly, facials, manny/peddys monthly, hair cut at exclusive salon, spa treatments, massages, expensive raw meat diet for the rare clumbers, trips to the Hamptons, the Berkshires, Vermont, home to Wisconsin 3-4x a year, monthly new clothes purchases, and some more shit.
Under Obama's plan which will impact me I can still do all that. So I am ok.
But who am I? Not Joe the plumber. I am Titus the Mo.
Titus:
The yoga tip is nice of you but most of us here don't want to calm down.
WOW.....I must be hitting a nerve somewhere because all of a sudden I am the center of the attention. I love it though, I have been on this board for about an hour now and besides Ms. Althouse, I think I've been called out the most. I never have been one to back down from a challenge though so here goes.........
My delusional Simon... there was never an ASSERTION made when I asked my original question, check the meaning and then "RE-READ" my question....Second your not even close to having a threesome with Palin/Fey......Third it's my opinion!!!!!
I am a realistic about the facts that center around the debate on the country as a whole, but a real leader will rally the troops and not destroy them, so take that and spin it the way you like!!!!!!
Oh and shoes. The ability to purchase 1-2 pair of new shoes monthly.
And music, and books, and magazine subscriptions. Lots and lots of music purchased through Itunes.
And having take out every day of the week for every meal.
Half of have will have a number that's less than they have real teeths in their mouth
Well, you have to admit that for a lefty, he does sound more cogent than Biden.
By the way for the professional spell checkers on the board, what I meant was realistic and I forgot to drop the a.......oops
And fabulous monthly spa treatments for two dogs.
They need to be bathed, hair buzzed, teeth brushed, nails clipped, massaged and all done with special fabulous products that are supposedly all natural and really good for them.
And cover charges to get into clubs.
And monthly Amazon purchases.
And it is critical that my rare clumbers attend the best schools in the city and socialize with the right kind of dog. There is no amount of money that I wouldn't pay for them to have that life.
Bob said...
The visceral hatred of Palin is clear to me. But I'm in a Northeast city which is no Jewish stronghold. The women who I have witnessed become unhinged (that is the only way I can describe some of reactions to her) are middle age, middle class, engineers, white Catholic or Presbyterians. They were all pretty level headed until we discussed her. HER! And it is Palin, not a policy thing.
I dispise Obama's politics but I can't hate any politician (except Kerry for his Winter Soldier activities) on that visceral a level.
I discussed my point of view about this using my own personal experiences and the reactions that women I know have to Palin. I was trashed and criticized for using my personal experience as a jumping off point and accused of projection by DBQ and others here. So once more I will tell you the truth about female reaction to Palin.
Palin is the woman in the church, bowling alley, supermarket or any other locale that flirts with a woman's husband(boyfriend, whatever) and makes the woman want to go over and rip her eyes out.
Bring it on people, because it is the truth. And she is not tempered by intelligence, which would mitigate the female reaction to her.
She is seen as a flirty, manipulative bimbo.
The truth, deal with it.
And any fancy new technologies that are hot and now and wow.
You can't be without them.
And Prada wrap around sunglasses.
And cute new jackets for the winter season.
And an assortment of new seasonal scarves, gloves and hats. Different types for different activities. Going out, walking the dog, going to the gym, going to dindin, going on a road trip. They all require a variety of choices.
And fabulous waxing of the car.
And cute gym outfits.
I discussed my point of view about this using my own personal experiences and the reactions that women I know have to Palin.... So once more I will tell you the truth...
I AM SOLIPSISM! HEAR ME ROAR!
What is a clumber?????
Lastly accessories.
You can never have enough belts and watches.
According to an article in the New York Post last week Obama's wife ordered room service at the Waldorf Astoria. She had lobster hors d'oeuvres, two lobsters, IRANIAN caviar (wanting to spread some wealth to Iran!), as well as champagne. That was through room service.
Waldorff Astoria doesn't have an online menu for room service with prices. Brunch is 95 dollars per person in one of their restaurants downstairs.
But, if you figure that a bowl of Muesli with milk at a Chicago hotel (called Swissotel) a year ago cost me 20 dollars through room service, how much did Michelle Obama's snack cost? Perhaps the menu is online but I was unable to find it.
Whatever, it was, this was definitely spending, and maybe it was spreading wealth, too. Are they really so different?
Any how, what do you figure got spent? In excess of five hundred? A thousand? Two thousand? The bill would require an 8% tax, plus a 15% gratuity.
I don't know if Sarah and Todd are eating anything but free mooseburgers costing only a spent shell or two, so maybe Obama and his wife seem like big spenders to Mrs. Palin. To me they do seem like big spenders, if this snack is any indication of how they normally eat.
integrity wrote: Palin is the woman in the church, bowling alley, supermarket or any other locale that flirts with a woman's husband(boyfriend, whatever) and makes the woman want to go over and rip her eyes out.
mere jealousy? Surely you can do better.
Can someone explain something? Numerous Republican types have now taken to castigating those who are voting early in record numbers around the country
I actually listened to Rush today (never do that, but my boss was out of town so I turned it on in the office) and he went off about early voting being a response to 2000. I think it’s convenient so unless you think we should all vote together for some sort of nostalgic reasons I don’t get that either.
The funny thing is that people say they are going to avoid “lines” but the lines are now almost nonexistent on election day because so many people early vote. My friend voted yesterday adn she said it took her HOURS! I started voting on election day for just that reason. My precinct is quick on election day.
Kirby, the Post recanted that bullshit story today. Michelle Obama wasn't in New York the day she was supposedly overdosing on the fruits of the sea; of course the whole steaming pile of crap came from an unnamed source. You gotta read Page Six everyday if you want to keep up with their now it's true, now it ain't gossip.
jmw2006 said...
"I am getting so tired of the republican lies and fact twisting poop that comes out of their mouths. Fact: Obamas tax plan calls for a taxbreak for 95% of TAXPAYING americans who make less than $250.000,00 per year."
And I'm getting pretty tired of the liberal legerdemain with this claim. Yes, Obama says that he will give a tax break. That's cute; he used to say he was staying in the public funding system, too. He lied then and he's lying now (or possibly just innumerate). Think: He also calls for an astonishing increase in not only discretionary but mandatory spending; when you combine the increased outlays from Obama's spending plans with the reduced tax revenues that the contracting economy will bring after he implements his various plans, he will seek to meet the shortfall by seeking tax increases. I just don't know how you people don't see this coming.
Trinity said...
"[T]here was never an ASSERTION made when I asked my original question"
Whether it was an assertion or a question (I say it was the former disguised as the latter, but if you want to quibble that, I'm happy to stipulate it), the fact remains that it was not, as you later soughto to characterize it, an "observation."
I never have been one to back down from a challenge though so here goes.........
You're going to fit in just fine here. Don't get discouraged if you get pushback. :)
Beth said...
"of course the whole steaming pile of crap came from an unnamed source."
After this election season, I would have thought that right and left alike should be able to agree that any and all points in stories that rest on "unnamed sources" have zero credibility.
The only thing worse the journalists are lawyers.
Errata: Apologies, the penultimate paragraph of my 2:58 PM was a quote from Trinity's post, I forgot to enquote it.
Beth:
To be fair, perhaps the Post got the dates mixed up.
Maybe the Post meant to report that is what the Ayers served to the invited guests when the Ayers kicked off Obama's political career?
Oh sorry, I am on the wrong thread. Carry on.
Trooper - I like a journalist who became a lawyer who became a judge. So there's some good apples!
Other credits are nonsense. I'm going to do great. I'll get to deduct more for the interest I pay on my mortgage. I'll get a credit for "saving". I'll get a credit for child care. I'll even get a credit for paying taxes.
Also, alot of tax credits and cuts are made on the backs of single people. He's not cutting rates.
And there is no way you can cut 95% of the country's taxes and fund all that stuff he wants to do. So he's basically lying. If he taxes business's, well sh*t rolls downhill, doesn't it? Obama has not clue how economics works and no desire to understand it.
The man said flat out that even if it resulted in less revenue he would increase certain taxes because it was only 'fair'. That is not a man who has any economic sense, frankly.
and fabulous presents to my mom from Dean and Deluca, Saks and Niemies-delivered in fabulous wrappings.
And flowers sent to her from expensive flower stores.
And special purchases for my girlfriends from Vallie Vallaise Va Va Va Voom.
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Merrill Lynch & Co's (MER.N) head of strategy will likely leave the bank with as much as $25 million in compensation, while three other top executives are set to stay at the firm once it combines with Bank of America Corp (BAC.N), according to media reports.
Peter Kraus will receive an exit payment because the takeover by Bank of America altered the terms of his contract, The Wall Street Journal reported. He will not be affected by a provision in the government's bank rescue plan that curbs executive compensation, sources told the paper.
Merrill accepted a takeover offer from Bank of America last month. The banks originally aimed to complete the takeover in the 2008 first quarter, but they are now targeting the end of this year.
Merrill Chief Executive John Thain said on Monday that the bank needs to cut thousands of jobs because he expects a global recession next year.
-----------------------------------
This is exactly why we are in the shambled state of affairs that we are in, but I guess all of you "righteous do-gooder's" are crying about the taxes that are going to the nation for this BIG Spender/Spreader too!!!!!!
But Simon you like blood pudding and being spanked on the bum.
English people are weirdo’s.
Just sayn'
The hatred of Palin boils down to one word: Trig. The women who viscerally hate Palin know that they would have killed Trig, Palin is a constant reminder of that moral failure.
Trinity, I realize you are operating on a 3rd grade level of logic and understanding here, but what you don't realize in your faux disdain for corporate compensations is that these people negotiated their contracts and their boards and stockholders approved it. You do know what a contract is right?
Trinity:
I don't know where you get your info. But Peter Krause is an actor who played Rudy Jordache in the TV miniseries "Rich Man Poor Man".
@Wildwest:
Ouch!
Hate to correct you AJ but Peter Strauss was the guy from Rich Man, Poor Man. Peter Krause is the guy from Sports Night and Six Feet Under.
But Trinity is still a tool. He was much better when he didn't say anything in those spaghetti westerns.
Let’s go Phillies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AJ Lynch said...
Trinity:
I don't know where you get your info. But Peter Krause is an actor who played Rudy Jordache in the TV miniseries "Rich Man Poor Man".
Peter Strauss, not Krause played Rudy Jordache. RMPM was the best miniseries ever.
BTW, people have been asking, so here's the data:
1824 -- Future president Martin Van Buren was one of several losing Democratic VP candidates.
1836 -- Future president John Tyler was one of several losing Whig VP candidates.
1840 -- Future president James Polk was one of several losing Democratic VP candidates.
1920 -- Future president Franklin Roosevelt (!) was Democrat James Cox's VP candidate.
In addition to the eventual winners above, losing VP candidates Bob Dole in 1976 and Walter Mondale in 1980 both eventually ran for president and lost -- Mondale in 1984, Dole in 1996.
I will expect you to call me out immediately when I say something that is incorrect. It's only right.
I mean we are not journalists. We want to get it right.
Doyle said...Well, my commenters are giving me a hard time.
That's because your commenters are for the most part crazed, dittohead shut-ins.
F U, I'm not a dittohead!
Althouse - it's more damaging and resonant to scare us about wealth redistribution.
Wrong. The swing voters don't have any wealth to redistribute. So that kind of talk doesn't threaten them. If anything it simply plays to their vindictiveness and desire to punish people who are more successful than they are.
The swing voters are mostly White women with not much savings who want some older rich guy to pay their bills for them.
And they will pick a black man who looks like Barack Obama over a White man who looks like Joe the Plumber or John McCain 100% of the time. And they hate Sarah Palin with a passion.
White women have selected Barack Obama to be the next President of the United States. The election is over.
TY:
Let’s go Phillies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's go Rays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A buddy of mine claims he banged the shit out of the girl in Rich Man Poor Man when they were acting students in New York in the early seventies.
Said she had a Mariah Carey thing going on if you know what I mean.
Everybody hates the Devil Rays.
They killed the Crocodile Hunter guy. The bastards.
Trooper York said...
A buddy of mine claims he banged the shit out of the girl in Rich Man Poor Man when they were acting students in New York in the early seventies.
Said she had a Mariah Carey thing going on if you know what I mean.
Susan Blakely? I loved her when I was a little kid. Or maybe you mean Kay Lens, who played the wife of Tom(Nolte). Or maybe Penny Peyser, who was in Book 2.
I don't really want to say, because it wouldn't be fair. Or nice. But it was the blonde one. Since you are fan you know what I mean.
(She wasn't a natural blonde)
Integrity:
Krause Strauss - give me credit for being in the ballpark?
Best miniseries ?. Yes I do agree with you.
Who was the actress in RMPM Trooper ? I remember what's her name Rachel Ward was a delicious babe in the Tornbirds.
Rachel Ward was a hot steaming piece of ass in Against All Odds.
She was banging some drug addict Kennedy douche at the time. What a waste of prime cootch.
Wildwest said...
The hatred of Palin boils down to one word: Trig. The women who viscerally hate Palin know that they would have killed Trig, Palin is a constant reminder of that moral failure.
......................
When was she pregnant? I've searched and searched for photos of her pregnancy and haven't found a single one! Trim and pregnant don't go in the same sentence!!!!
I'm happy to be a tool!!!! Thanks for the compliment!!!!
Trooper York said...
Rachel Ward was a hot steaming piece of ass in Against All Odds.
She was banging some drug addict Kennedy douche at the time. What a waste of prime cootch.
I thought she was already doing Bryan Brown by the time she began filming "Against All Odds".
No problem dude. Luckily you are not sharp so no one will get hurt.
Welcome to the festivities.
I think the Kennedy dude croaked or something and she hopped on the next meal ticket but I could be wrong.
Oh, lord, a Trig Truther.
Count me in as a Rachel Ward fan, though. She's the only reason I'd consider watching Sharkey's Machine again.
She was also in a horror movie prior to that called Night School. Rather preposterous movie but, hey, Rachel Ward.
And, of course, in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid, her boobs kept getting out of whack (requiring extensive manual adjustment by Steve Martin).
I sorta soured on her after that Aussie flick The Good Wife. Ick.
I personally lust for brunettes and Rachel Ward is in the Hall of Fame with Adrienne Barbeau, Sophia Loren, Tamara Dobson and Pam Grier.
I also love how we can turn a conversation over to what is really important: large breasted actresses of the seventies mini-series.
Is CNN reporting it wrong or is it the case that Palin cannot be trusted with phrase-turning? It should be "Barack the Wealth Spreader."
---
Well. That settles it. We just can't have anyone that stupid serving as vice president. I'm voting for Obama.
Oh ... wait. Then Biden would be vice president.
Tmink / Trey attacks my honor:
There was no heckling in the video. There was an Obama supporter in the middle of the McCain folks, he was treated well and kindly he said.
Alpha, you are a liar.
You have no honor.
OK. Let me see if I have this straight.
In your world, yelling something like "Here come more cheater Obama voters" is not heckling.
See, this is why I refer to the Republican fantasy world as "Bizarro," because it's the opposite of the real world, where most people would see that as heckling.
Harwood said...
"Oh ... wait. Then Biden would be vice president."
Yeah, but I bet he's never made any verbal goofs in a speech before.
Yeah Susan Blakely now I remember her really cute blonde right?
Unlike the person in question, my lips are sealed.
Simon, every person alive has made verbal gaffes.
Palin is prolific in making gaffes we should call her the Gaffe-o-matic. Most of her comments are incomprehensible, incoherent, dumb gaffes, gross misstatements of fact, etc. That's the majority of her unscripted statements!
She's in a league of her own. To wit:
PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.
From Inwood said... Peggy is MoDo's clone without the playfulness.
I would have chosen brittleness, or perhaps archness on a good day; but MoDo is as playful as a scorpion.
Simon said...
Roger J. said...
"What has Governor Palin to elicit such hatred among a bunch of jewish princesses?"
She's prettier and more successful than they are. What more do you need? ;)
Makes sense given the Sandra Bernhard sexual and religious sliming of Palin to roaring laughs of approval at the DC Jewish Center last month.
Palin is counter-feminist, has a happy life despite not having much money to start with, lacks a professional degree yet she has power, and is a Christian Zionist - all things liberal Jews loathe.
Even more centrist, even conservative Jews see Christian Zionists as useful dupes.
Liberal Jews love their victims, as long as they are the "right kind" of victims.
One thing socialist and even communist Jews did when they were in charge of the NAACP - was work hard to demonize and marginalize Booker T. Washington and his supporters. Education and self-help were destructive to advancing the Black Race, those Jews thought. They preferred the socialist solutions of WEB Dubois and propagandized relentlessly that "all good blacks", certainly those they allowed in the NAACP should look to government and courts to do the "advancing".
Bitterness still lingers about blacks tossing the Leftist Jews out of "mentoring" executive positions in the NAACP and other black organizations Jews set up - that happened in the 60s as blacks went with self-determination.
And Booker T's ideas are making a comeback.
Similar bitterness is afoot in feminist circles these days as women have moved past the NYC progressive "starters" to a post-feminist era that rejects PC and Stalinist-like demands of solidarity.
******************
Trooper York said...
I personally lust for brunettes and Rachel Ward is in the Hall of Fame with Adrienne Barbeau, Sophia Loren, Tamara Dobson and Pam Grier.
The Trooper is apparantly more motivated by hooter size than hair color..
I don't get the "in a Mariah Carey way"...though..
I read what Alpha just posted to sway me that Palin's in league of her own and then reading post on Biden's latest gaffe. And I guess I'm forced to say I'll take Palin's gaffes. They appear rambling and incoherent. Biden's, on the other hand, appears absolutely scary. Of course I suppose that I've actually heard Palin ask for clarification to a question while Biden always plows ahead answering does influence me.
Smell Ced, smell.
Think a fish taco that qoute "smells like the Gowanus Canal on a hot summer day."
Allegedlly.
Althouse asks:
How dare I criticize Sarah Palin for a non-error!
Except it was an error.
The phrase McCain and the rest of the campaign were criticizing is "spread the wealth." Not "spend the wealth."
Again, Repubs pine for the day, decades ago, when their candidate enjoyed a teflon coating and could not be scrutinized or criticized.
Those days are gone.
OMG! Is she serious? She has a lot of nerve! Did anyone read the AP news article on the investigation going on about Palin? She has charged the state of Alaska way OVER $21,000 in unauthorized flights for her children and expensive hotel stays for events that her children were NOT even invited to!!!!! This is what she will do if she becomes VP. She will spend OUR money on HER kids, when we can barely afford to feed ours!!!!!
Elaine: What do you mean you can't remember her name? You had sex with her and forgot her name?
Jerry: All I remember is that it sounded like a female body part.
Elaine: Dolores?
(Seinfeld)
Spread the Wealth!
trooper York, Are you seroius? Is that all you could come up with. Get a life. you must be one of the idiots that's voting for that "Stepford Wife", Palin.
"What is a clumber?????"
A clumber is a ugly dog. Titus owns two of them. Supposedly they are rare, but I saw one last weekend. Anyway, ugly dogs probably are rare, because who wants them?
"you must be one of the idiots that's voting for that "Stepford Wife", Palin."
How much do you want a bet that "dolores" looks like an ass pimple?
There's a simple reason that some women hate Palin: jealousy. Women hate other women if the are more successful and prettier than they are.
Well I don't think we can assume that Dolores is ugly.
However from her comments we can safely assume that she is stupid.
Palladian...another dumb ass Repub or "PUBE". Palin is an UGLY 'B**CH" Believe me, there is nothing to be jealous of. Stick to the subject, dumb ass! I guess you're not intelligent enough to do that either. F***king REDNECKS!
Walter Neff...Like I said, none of you 12 year olds are smart enough to stick to the subject and defend yourselves, so you have to talk BS about ME instead. Typical REPUBLICANS!
For those Palin supporters that know how to read:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel
Hmmmm....Dolores has a new profile. Michael in drag???
Donn....Arent any of any of you inteligent enough to give a good response ON THE SUBJECT? Geez, this is starting to sound like the interview with Palin and Katie Couric. you guys are WAY OFF. Don't understand English perhaps? Can't read? Dislexia? ADD? Or all of the above and just a supid Palin supporter?
Ugh. The ass pimple has popped.
Dolores:
Dislexia?
Do you mean Dyslexia?
Palladian....
Yeah, and apparently, you still haven't grown a brain!
Since Dolores can't post a link and argues like a ten year old we can safely assume that Michael/Luckyoldson has made his triumphant return. All those who took the under will please bring their tickets to the cashier. Thank you.
Dolores: a name filled with the pain and sorrow.
TY:
All those who took the under will please bring their tickets to the cashier
Wooo hooo! Pay day.
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