Writes Jeremy Clarkson, in "I know how to fill churches. Deconsecrate them/My idea to fill the pews would mean hiring out churches for parties — but a new report focuses instead on calming down neurodivergent vicars" (London Times).
Clarkson goes on to crack some jokes at the expense of the neurodivergent, but I didn't think the jokes were much good, so let's just read that article he linked to: "Church urged to embrace neurodivergent parishioners (and priests)/A report says the assumptions that preachers should be extroverts and worshippers must sit still were contributing to 'cultures of ableism.'"
Dozens of neurodivergent priests were asked about their experiences of working in the church for the report. It found that many measured themselves against an “ideal clergyman” — described as “a busy, extroverted, often male archetype reinforced by church culture” — but preferred to follow a “slow church model” that was “quieter [and] more contemplative.”
The report... said: “Transforming ableist and unsafe institutions requires repentance and change to allow neurodivergent clergy to truly flourish.... Many neurodivergent people have been unwilling or unable to be open in their work, ministry or community, fearing prejudice, discrimination and judgement.”...
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53 comments:
Certain jobs require certain personalties. I'm not sure what type of person is needed to be a Vicar in the Church of England, but it seems absurd to change what's needed to do that job to meet the needs of someone that is "neurodivergent".
There have always been people that tend to be introverts or extroverts. But this is malleable. I'm an introvert by nature by have done quite well in jobs that required me to be an extrovert - I've actually grown to enjoy being an extrovert at times. Labelling someone who is an introvert as "neurodivergent" rubs me the wrong way. It applies that person is not normal, needs special consideration and can't change.
Anglicanism does tend to attract nerds to the cloth. Remember, Oxford and Cambridge were CofE seminaries until well into the 19th century. Even/especially in the postmodern age, you impress your professors and superiors by mastering the intricacies of theology, which is essentially math, i.e., Asperger chow.
Then you find yourself dealing with real people in a real building in a real place. Like Vicar of Dibley, or Tom Hollander in Rev.
Or like a law student getting A's and clerkships for elegant flights of appellate reasoning, then having to deal with real clients who are risking their money and freedom.
Lots of professions have developed to the point where their preparation and selection have little to do with the actual job. CC, JSM
This is true. Charles V is the head of the church of England, “defender of the faith” yet has allowed Islam a foothold and is turning a blind eye to no-go zones where the new arrivals have asserted Sharia law. It’s one thing for politicians to lie but for the Head of Church to fail so spectacularly is causing unrest.
Charles III.
Clarkson bought a pub to sell the food he raised and grew on his farm. He created a beer to sell in the pub based on locally sourced barley. He needed to advertise the beer, so he brought various farmers together to create a choir and build fellowship in a community that nominally is lonely and solitary. The choir sang about the beer and the hardship of farming, to include the high suicide rate among farmers in the UK. They went on Britian Has Talent, and won the entire contest.
Clarkson has likely done more to help those in need than anyone the Church of England chooses as Vicar.
"theology, which is essentially math,"
How so? Answer in relation to the dogma of the Trinity.
Anglicanism has always had a fair number Monty Python moments. There was that period during the Victorian era, where they were scandalized by too much linen and too many flowers on the altar. Creeping papistry. The clergy in Trollope's Barchester Towers novels could move effortlessly into a P.G. Wodehouse novel.......I didn't; read the article and I'm not sure what neurodivergent means. I hope it all works out and Anglican clergy continue to be , above all, respectable......During their breakfast, the vicar asked the curate what he thought of his soft boiled egg. Parts of it are quite good the curate replied.
Expecting people to be good at their job is ableism. Expecting people to pursue careers that fit their personality is ableism. If a vicar isn’t good at their job, it’s the congregation’s fault.
…Illustrates one more problem of destroying the order of civilization so a small dysfunctional group is accommodated. We can all write a job description for a vicar, priest, minister. Not everyone possesses the skills…
I SO wanted to be an astronaut when I was a kid. Unfortunately I had myopia and astigmatism, some fear of heights, some claustrophobia.
And no right whatsoever to have any particular job for which I was unqualified or inapt.
Another good reason for our War for Independence.
Jesus was an extrovert
Might be more accurate to say math is a branch of theology. Symbolic logic developed to solve theological problems. Wrt the Trinity: Father-not-Son-not-Spirit, but Father, Son, and Spirit-are-God. This statement was crafted to reconcile the scattered bits in the NT about the three Persons and their relationship, as well as the various OT descriptions of God.
Later logicians and mathematicians took the monks' tools and used them to solve non-religious problems. Lawyers used them to reason through the common law. Etc. CC, JSM
Begley: "Another good reason for our War for Independence."
Ah, but at least two colonies had established churches: Mass had Congregationalism, and Virginia had the CofE. They all soon realized such arrangements were quite silly, though. CC, JSM
Quiz - Who is more left wing, Unitarian Church or Church of England?
The US branch of the CoE, the Episcopal Church, has long made extensive adjustments including fundamental beliefs to suit the multiply divergent. According to the Pension Board, the denomiation will be effectively dead except for a tiny number of churches with large endowments in a generation. It does not necessarily mean that the approach is wrong, but it does mean it is not a single magic bullet.
Its pining fot the fjords
rehajm is right. It’s a case of weirdos and misfits destroying something just because they can
The English have traditionally tolerated, even celebrated, harmless eccentrics, with the keyword being “harmless”. This particular destruction will be tolerated, even encouraged, because the C of E is past its expiration date
Muddled leftism is like water. It finds cracks in anything it approaches, gets inside, and rots it from the inside out.
The scene at a "neurodivergent" church in Old Blighty:
https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/2073462612759621761
Everyone just needs their own church.
What did they do with all those phones booths that used to be everywhere? I picture them standing in endless rows out in a desert somewhere, going to waste. We could repurpose them as individual, private little churches. People could use magic markers to make the windows look like stained glass. There's not enough of the old booths to go around if this thing really took off, but it's a start. Tiny homes are a thing. Why not tiny churches? Cathedralettes. People with tiny organs would adapt quickly. And harmonica players.
The UK is a Soviet leftist hot pile of garbage.
Homos? Sims? Another mode and time of trans? What a drag show. London bridge has fallen downtown Abby is a sign of the Times. Let us bray for boring. A pox on Chinese curses.
Amazing that what was once the church of the old-line establishment now sees its sacred space as the setting for a Fellini movie. Perhaps not surprising considering that the head of the Anglican Communion cannot understand how anyone could believe such balderdash. So, might as well turn it into a circus and have a party.
I'm not sure what neurodivergent means
It was originally used to describe people with serious to severe autism. But as the diagnosis of autism expanded to include more and more of the population (including all Somalis, apparently), it now means anyone with behavioral problems.
The problem with how we deal with neurodivergence is treating it like an illness rather than figure out ways to leverage the positive aspects and special superpowers contained within the unusual human. I mean come on, we couldn't have highly impactful people like Elon Musk or Donald Trump without neurodivergence.
What the hell is an "ableist"? Why does Anglo-America always go along with this weird jargon and commie talk. everything is an "ist" or an "ism".
As for what the man is talking about, its confusing to me. What is neodivergent (More jargon)? Oh, its people who don't think like everyone else and have ADHD, autism, etc.
Anyway, I'm glad someone from the Church of England is talking about something other then Gay rights, fighting racism, welcoming other religions, and how you don't really need to believe in Christianity to be a leader of the Church.
King Charles has decided hes now a "Multi-faith" leader and not the head of the C-of-E. Probably because the C-of-E is such a joke.
If I were a churchgoer, the first thing I would do next Sunday is pray that the typically stupid woke term "neurodivergent" soon leaves the lexicon.
Sometimes I think this is really a war on individualism: Taking the worst examples of unbalanced people with mental problems, and elevating them to the full glorious splendor of their delusions, vesting them with empowerment at the expense everyone else's peace of mind, and leaving institutions in a shambles all along the way.
Neurodivergence is just a simple way of describing the Tails on a gaussian distribution.
Aggie perfectly describes how most Democrats perceive Trump and Musk.
Howard, that doesn't even begin to make sense. Did you read the story? It's 'Sit Still and Shut Up' to the normies, while being subjected to forced crazy time - in chruch.
Being shy or an introvert is something a person has to work on. Being neurodivergent is a condition the world must accommodate. Same issue, but shift the responsibility.
Find a way to be a good vicar, or get used to being a shit vicar.
Is it a lateral move to become a monk? Take a vow of silence and spend your days making bread or brewing beer.
I believe that screen time on movies and television shows should make (mandatory) room for engineers ( I am a retired PE). Sure most of us have little to no sense of humor. Most of us have a dry, monotone delivery when making the most uninspiring speeches of all time. Many are scared crapless of being in the public eye.
But there MUST be inclusiveness!
I'd be willing to star in a (hard) R rated film co-starring Halle Berry.... (Lots of rehearsal and multiple takes anticipated).
And, if it helps bring about this new career, I'd be willing to lay on the floor after work every single day.
The prescription for the Church of England and its offspring is for its clergy and parishioners to familiarize themselves with, and follow, the teaching of the Bible, particularly that of Jesus Christ and the New Testament.
The Anglican clergy has always been a refuge for eccentrics, from "reluctant deacon" Lewis Carroll, through clerical families like the Brontes and Tennysons to the syllable swapping Reverend Spooner. The problem was how to fit the neurodivergent eccentrics, neurotics, and melancholics in with the more normal parishioners. Now that the clergy is a less attractive and less remunerative career the emphasis is on on not losing the dottier priests. Or is it? There must be plenty of healthy-minded African or Asian ministers willing to take over in England. The church bureaucracy needs to justify its existence by embracing one cause after another.
Every time I hear the word neurodivergent I think of the song from the Fantasticks "Don't let me be normal." The idea there there are a majority of normal people who are perfectly comfortable in their extroverted lives is pernicious.
The pastor in the Protestant church I attended as a child was an introvert. And, in my opinion, an asshole.
“ Even/especially in the postmodern age, you impress your professors and superiors by mastering the intricacies of theology, which is essentially math, i.e., Asperger chow.”
Have they resolved that question of the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, or is that still a topic of active research?
I can't imagine that the Church of England clergy are that different from the Roman Catholic clergy. And the Catholic clergy is, overwhelmingly, non-binary men. (Also, "neurodivergent" is not a medical term and is so vague that it's hard to define.)
a world of how many billions? - and with the left it all comes down to their non stop obsessions with Trump and Musk.
main stream churchs have less and less membership, and
FAR less attendance.
MEANWHILE; the evangelic churches have higher and higher numbers,
at the same time, More and MORE africans and asians are going to church.. WEEKLY. Even mainstream churches like the Methodists
So WHAT has the United Methodist Church done about this?
They have passed new rules, that allow American Methodist Churchs ignore Church doctrine on things like LGBTQIA2S+.
American Methodist Churches are nearly empty, with the only people going are eldery white boomer women that want to appear "tolerant" of things like LGBTQIA2S+..
More people went to a Methodist Church this Sunday in central africa than did it the ENTIRE USA..
There's a lesson there.. I WONDER what it is?
what i'm trying to say is: Christianity is on an INCREASE..
It's just NOT increasing among the west woke folk
Neurodivergent includes people who like cats and hate dogs. Woof!
“ I can't imagine that the Church of England clergy are that different from the Roman Catholic clergy.”
I believe the doctrines are essentially identical, except that if you happen to be King of England the Anglican Church allows you to behead your wives. There may be more subtle distinctions I’m unaware of.
I believe the doctrines are essentially identical
Anglicans are allowed to marry, have sex and reproduce! I know, I know. That's minor. We also have female priests. And birth control is not a sin. And we are free to listen to the Pope or ignore the Pope. He is not the head of our church.
We're the number three Christian denomination in the world (I think).
1. Roman Catholic
2. Greek Orthodox
3. Anglican (Episcopalian in most of the US)
Bishop Tutu was an Anglican, if you've heard of him.
Last year the Global Anglican Future Conference (representing the vast majority of Anglicans around the world) announced that they would no longer be following the Archbishop of Canterbury.
"Good Heavens, William" as Archdeacon Grantley might say.
One of the best things ever done on Masterpiece Theater was Barchester Chronicles (Mashup of The Warden and Barchester Towers) about the English clergy of the 1850s. I have the DVD and have been trying to figure out how to rip or at least play it. All star cast with Donald Pleasance, Nigel Hawthorne as the Archdeacon and Allan Richman as the odious villain Slope.
I've watched the DVD many times, read the books several and am currently listening, again, to the excellent free Librivox audio book of The Warden and Barchester Towers.
I also have "The Way We Live Now" on DVD, have read it and listened to the Librivox Audio. All excellent. Will listen again when I finish Barchester Towers.
I love me some Trollope. Never thought of him as Wodehouse but he is in a similar vein, isn't he?
John Henry
I knew growing up as a kid I could never do certain jobs. Being a cop was out. I don’t like telling people no. Being in a job that required speaking in public was out. No teaching job for me.
I ended up a construction surveyor. I did become a supervisor so I ended up telling others what to do but I never liked that part of it.
Point is you should find something you can do that you’re suited for.
I don't sit still in church. I pace in the back, singing harmony. No one seems to mind.
"I believe the doctrines are essentially identical,"
Anglicans do not have to believe in the divinity of Christ to be a priest or bishop. Catholics do. So that's a basic difference.
“Anglicans are allowed to marry, have sex and reproduce!”
And the wives know what happens if they don’t.
Speaking of Charles III, what kind of royal parents would name their first child -- i.e. the heir apparent -- after England's only regicide???
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