I asked Grok. Answer after the jump. The easiest guess as to who came in first is the correct answer, so see if you know who came in second:
Melania Trump stands out among actual U.S. First Ladies for receiving some of the most explicit, sexualized public disrespect in the modern era—being directly called a “hooker,” “whore,” or accused of having been a prostitute/escort. This came from tabloid stories, a New York Times reporter (who was reprimanded after a model publicly called out the comment), social media, and partisan commentary tied to her pre-White House modeling career and alleged links to escort services. She filed (and later settled or pursued) defamation suits, including a $150 million claim against the Daily Mail over “elite escort” allegations, which the paper retracted. Media and online discourse frequently framed her as ornamental, aloof, or unworthy in ways that veered into slut-shaming, far more personal and vicious than typical policy or style critiques faced by others. Some contemporary observers (across outlets) described her overall press treatment as among the worst for any modern First Lady.
No other serving First Lady matches this level of direct “whore/prostitute” framing in the historical record. Earlier partisan newspapers were often vicious but focused more on politics, spending, loyalty, or personality than outright sexual promiscuity labels for presidential wives once in the White House.
Closest historical parallel (not technically a First Lady) The single most brutal sexual character assassination of a presidential spouse involved Rachel Jackson (wife of Andrew Jackson) during the 1828 campaign. Opponents dredged up her first marriage’s messy divorce and her subsequent union with Jackson, labeling her a bigamist, adulteress, “whore,” “harlot,” and woman of “open and notorious lewdness” in newspapers and pamphlets. She was devastated, withdrew from public life, and died of a heart attack shortly after the election (before inauguration). Andrew Jackson blamed the “slander” for her death and had “A being so gentle and so virtuous, slander might wound, but could never dishonor” inscribed on her tombstone. This was pre-modern “press” in the partisan era, but it was exceptionally cruel and explicitly sexual.
A related but non-First Lady case was Peggy Eaton (wife of Jackson’s Secretary of War), whose rumored sexual history triggered the “Petticoat Affair.” Washington society wives ostracized her over alleged promiscuity, nearly tearing apart Jackson’s cabinet. Jackson defended her fiercely, seeing echoes of the attacks on his own wife....
ADDED: Melania Trump is actually the ONLY First Lady who has been disrespected as, essentially, a whore. Rachel Jackson died before her husband became President, and Peggy Eaton was never a First Lady. Grok went on to list other First Ladies who were treated harshly — Mary Todd Lincoln, Florence Harding, Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama — but none of them were "disrespected as, essentially, whores."
AND: I sharpened my inquiry: "I don't mean to 'whore' as simply rough language aimed at a woman. I mean was the substance of the criticism that they were literally engaged in what amounted to prostitution."
Answer: "Melania Trump is the only U.S. First Lady for whom the substance of widespread press and public criticism explicitly accused her of literally having engaged in prostitution or escorting (i.e., paid sex work) before becoming First Lady.... Extensive historical searches turn up zero comparable cases for any other serving U.S. First Lady (or even most presidential candidates’ wives). Earlier partisan press could be vicious, but accusations focused on: Adultery or 'loose morals' (e.g., Rachel Jackson in 1828 was relentlessly called a 'whore,' 'harlot,' and adulteress because her first marriage’s divorce was incomplete when she began living with Andrew Jackson....)...."
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115 comments:
The same pairing that I thought of.
I don't think Nancy Reagan was particularly well treated by the press. That may be more of an impression than the facts of the time would bear out, but I do seem to recall a lot of harping about redecorating the White House. It's indulgent overspending when Republicans do and tasteful necessity when the democrats do.
Another non-First Lady case is Kamala Harris.
Melania has a very sketchy past. She almost certainly violated her visa when she first arrived in the U.S. Her green card was fraudulently obtained. She was admitted on a so called Einstein Visa which is supposed to be reserved for highly skilled technical experts.
Perhaps she deserves the extra scrutiny.
This was pre-modern “press” in the partisan era, but it was exceptionally cruel and explicitly sexual.
So, in other words, a tacit admission that the modern and post-modern "press" suffers the very same infirmities?
It’s terrible. X is full of this “whore” shit. Totally vicious.
As I said in another post, her modeling career, including the nude shoots would be proof that she is “daring and courageous” and “breaking barriers” if she were a leftist.
And, by the way, I have a lifelong preference for “loose” women. They’re great. Means they love sex and men.
Don't know of another First Lady that had the FBI comb through their panty drawer, but the lefties got thrilled by it.
And quite likely she's the most beautiful First Lady ever, yet she was never pictured on a fashion magazine cover.
"Perhaps she deserves the extra scrutiny."
The issue isn't whether a person deserves extra scrutiny. It's specifically about characterizing a woman as a prostitute as your form of attack.
That's a feminist issue, and if you think feminism doesn't cover women who are or seem to be on the political right, if you put political partisanship above the interests of women, you're simply not a feminist. I tend to think left-wingers are NOT feminists, though they pretend that they are. So step up and add confirmation to my hypothesis.
Kamala Harris? You mean the Vice President? As compared to other, non-elected women that were there, because their husbands had been elected to high office? What disingenuity, treating Harris as if she were in the same 'unfair collateral damage' category. Let's talk about the hubby, instead - and the nanny, too, shall we?
"...Some contemporary observers (across outlets) described her overall press treatment as among the worst for any modern First Lady. ...."
'Among the worst', huh? So, who are the others in that group that she's 'among'? Not named, I see. Maybe the members of the press are worried about any closer examinations, lest a picture or pattern comes into focus.
I'm glad to see the First Lady take all this on with a sense of confrontation, good for her. DC Social Politics is a sewer, but I guess they all know what they're in for before signing up for it.
Being overall pretty ignorant of history, it was just last week or so I learned that Louis XIV had not only a wife and official mistresses, but unofficial mistresses as well (whatever that means) and lots of kids out of them all.
The issue isn't whether a person deserves extra scrutiny. It's specifically about characterizing a woman as a prostitute as your form of attack.
I intentionally stuck to her visa status, which has nothing to do with the sexism you are accusing me of. My point is that very few, if any, first ladies arrived in the White House with the baggage she carried. She is the first foreign born first lady of the modern era. She is a dual citizen, etc.
It is amusing that you accuse me of sexism, when you never have a word to say to Shouting Thomas, RHHardin or others on the right side of this blog, some of whom have openly advocated repealing the 19th Amendment and frequently publish extremely sexist comments.
Go back and look at some of the vicious comments about Kamela Harris. Apparently, by your silence, you think that sexist attacks by the right are just fine.
“It is amusing that you accuse me of sexism, when you never have a word to say to Shouting Thomas, RHHardin or others on the right side of this blog…”
Althouse and I have had thousands of words to say to one another, most of them quite stimulating. I’ve been here since her first post.
I'm of two minds as to whether to bring this up, but I have a distinct memory of reading that Nancy Reagan was allegedly "well known" for "giving the best blow-jobs in Hollywood" before she married RR. The writer didn't claim that she was paid for them, so that's not quite the same as calling her a whore, but it's in the same general category of filthy abuse.
Nancy Reagan was widely described by people in Los Angeles who claimed to be "in the know" about Reagan-era Hollywood as someone who advanced her acting career and social standing through her reputation for expert fellatio. Unlike Melania, this was a whisper campaign, and this campaign was conducted decades before people would feel obligated to append the Seinfeldian "not that there's anything wrong with that".
Weevil, great dirty minds think alike.
Why did you delete my comment? It was obviously up for a couple of minutes. Long enough for Shouting Thomas to respond.
Freder, your 922 post is there, in all its glory.
Leftists are shitty shitty people.
The Nancy Reagan innuendo was at a time before social media, with a biased but not overtly partisan press, but I certainly heard the charge, though I can't remember how. I remember dirty jokes about Pat Nixon as well. There was always a vicious undertone for Republican first ladies.
Comments often disappear shortly after posting, and it has nothing to do with Ann: the software does it, and the process seems quite random. It's happened to me 10-20 times over the last year, and none of the missing comments were the least bit offensive - at least to Ann. Commenters have often discussed the phenomenon, but somehow FF never go the word, and assumes it's personal.
Grok also seems to forget how Michelle Obama was treated by the right. Heck, some even claimed she wasn't a woman at all.
Re: Nancy Reagan. I recall the principal source of those stories was the contemptible Peter Lawford, who was married to...
The Kennedys strike again! The New Frontier dies hard.
"Left Bank of the Charles said...
Another non-First Lady case is Kamala Harris."
No. She is a whore.
Once the collective left get their lie and half truths ready - they all spew like synced robot cultists.
I despise democrats and their press poodles.
Freder, your 922 post is there, in all its glory.
Sorry. I see it. And sorry to Althouse, too.
Michelle Obama suffered the tortures of being overpraised.
I don't think Nancy Reagan was particularly well treated by the press. That may be more of an impression than the facts of the time would bear out, but I do seem to recall a lot of harping about redecorating the White House
Oh, the political reporters hated Nancy Reagan, but this was a time when softball coverage was still available to the GOP in venues like People Magazine, where you can find her featured on the cover (and with the President).
but somehow FF never go the word, and assumes it's personal.
That is because it is personal between me and her. She has called me an asshole at least twice. Once got on my case because I used the word "hysterical" because she claimed it was sexist because of its etymology and several other incidents. I call her out because she does have a double standard.
I can't recall any time when she harshly criticized any of the far right commentor for their outrageously sexist comments. Apparently, only left-wing commenters "put political partisanship above the interests of women".
“She has called me an asshole at least twice.”
She’s called me an asshole many more times than that and I still love her.
Amadeus - LOL.
And she still whines about it, too.
Poor Freder. The Professor wrote that leftists who use feminist tropes to promote their ideology are not actually feminist. Which right-leaning commenters here hide behind feminist lingo to make a partisan claim?
Freder Frederson said...
Melania has a very sketchy past. She almost certainly violated her visa when she first arrived in the U.S. Her green card was fraudulently obtained. She was admitted on a so called Einstein Visa which is supposed to be reserved for highly skilled technical experts.
Perhaps she deserves the extra scrutiny.
Freder is just demonstrating to everyone that 1930's Germany was not the exception.
It is the rule. Most countries and governments have been tribes of shitheads whose primary drive is to maintain power by any means necessary.
Freder supported kicking Trump off social media and censoring his MAGA political opponents. Freder is no different than the Fascists in Italy or the Maoists in China or the Soviets in Russia. He just calls himself different names.
He is an evil piece of shit and belongs in Europe.
Official mistresses - got something out of the deal
Unofficial mistresses - got nothing out of the deal except the feeling of having been used and perhaps a child
The fact is that comments do often disappear randomly. It must suck to be such a known asshole that you can't tell whether a particular comment disappeared because you're an asshole and she deleted it, or just at random, or whether you stupidly thought it disappeared when it didn't. It's certainly a comfort to know that mine only disappear at random and will likely turn up again at some random time - sooner if I ask Ann to get it out of the spam filter.
Upcoming news cycle ,stay tuned more of the worst of the worst Melania=Brazilian Model Amanda Ungaro. Get your tickets now. Whose the worst?
“Sorry. I see it. And sorry to Althouse, too.“
Freder, “sorry” doesn’t cut it when you publicly, without evidence, accuse someone of a wrong they never committed. You owe her a complete and genuine apology.
Eleanor Roosevelt wasnt badly treated while she was 1st Lady. She broke all the norms and was an activist Democrat/Liberal attacking Republicans and Conservatives. But except for one columnist - Westbrook Pegler - she was treated with Kid Gloves by everyone else.
Publically, she acted like Pegler was a silly annoying pest. Privately, she got the FBI to investigate him, and the Treasury Department audit his taxes. She thought she could link Pegler to a Neo-Nazi in 1943, and kept pestering Hoover to investigate and re-investigate. But it turned up empty.
The treatment Melanie has received is inexcusable. Since “but Trump” is used to justify the seditious, unethical, even criminal behavior directed at Trump and family by Democrats, their consorts and their pet mediaswine, the converse should also be expected by them. For example, maybe Bondi wasn’t diligent enough in prosecuting his enemies.
Freder Frederson said...
but somehow FF never go the word, and assumes it's personal.
That is because it is personal between me and her. She has called me an asshole at least twice. Once got on my case because I used the word "hysterical" because she claimed it was sexist because of its etymology and several other incidents. I call her out because she does have a double standard.
I can't recall any time when she harshly criticized any of the far right commentor for their outrageously sexist comments. Apparently, only left-wing commenters "put political partisanship above the interests of women".
Your core problem is you are fundamentally dishonest.
You pretend to support freedom and liberty but only as a ruse to take that freedom away from your political opponents. At every opportunity you support censorship and prosecution. You do not discuss issues as matters of policy or political disagreement. Your tools are censorship and jail.
When someone like Melania gets out of line you resort to attacking her citizenship. You can't have a discussion with Melania. You cannot deal with someone who is a threat to your power.
You can't disagree with Trump supporters or with Trump. You have to throw them in jail and censor them. Nobody wants the things you want.
You have to have mail in voting and no voter ID even though 80% of americans want that.
You have to have open borders even though 80% of americans oppose that.
You openly demand that government takes our stuff and gives it to democrats.
You do not belong in a free country.
Meade said...
“Sorry. I see it. And sorry to Althouse, too.“
Freder, “sorry” doesn’t cut it when you publicly, without evidence, accuse someone of a wrong they never committed. You owe her a complete and genuine apology.
The problem is the fundamental level of dishonesty.
Freder is a Nazi/Soviet. This is how they act. They can't be honest about anything because they literally support censorship, voter fraud, open borders and political persecution and you can't win an election supporting those things.
You pretend to support freedom and liberty but only as a ruse to take that freedom away from your political opponents.
That is rich coming from a person who, on this very forum, has declared that 30% of the population of the U.S. should be imprisoned, exiled of executed for not agreeing with your dystopian plans for the country.
All the normals want Biden's illegal entrants - gone.
The left want their slave class/ new illegal voters.
We know this - Freder.
“I tend to think left-wingers are NOT feminists, though they pretend that they are.” Thank you. Despite their silence in the face of sex trafficking at the open border, men destroying women’s’ sports, Islamist sicko rapists, child groomers, etc., lefties continues to masquerade as feminists.
Freder, you should know by now that Althouse strongly disapproves of comments that don’t address her original points.
This was very specifically about First Ladies and unfair harsh treatment they may have received on the basis of alleged promiscuity.
You switched it right over to questions about legal immigration. So unless the allegation is that Melania came to the US on a special Whore Visa, no—she doesn’t deserve a deeper look.
Freder supported kicking Trump off social media and censoring his MAGA political opponents.
You are just making shit up again. There is a huge difference between what you think I advocate and what I have actually said.
Add to 10:58: It’s important to know that someone with legitimate feminist credentials acknowledges the hypocrisy.
You really can't despise the modern press enough.
Freder, “sorry” doesn’t cut it when you publicly, without evidence, accuse someone of a wrong they never committed. You owe her a complete and genuine apology.
I admitted my mistake and apologized. What else do require. If she doesn't like my apology, she can ask for a more sincere one. If she is the feminist she claims to be, maybe she shouldn't have her husband fighting her battles for her. She accused me, with no evidence, of not being a feminist, because I pointed out that there are sketchy things in Melania's past that deserve scrutiny that have nothing to do with her sexual exploits.
This was very specifically about First Ladies and unfair harsh treatment they may have received on the basis of alleged promiscuity.
And my point is and was that she limited her query, knowing what the answer would be, just to make some kind of point, which I really can't fathom.
So unless the allegation is that Melania came to the US on a special Whore Visa, no—she doesn’t deserve a deeper look.
And yet her husband is advocating stripping people of their citizenship and immigration for exactly the kind of shenanigans she has been accused of. Whether she worked here illegally and how she got a green card under a program she was nowhere near qualified for, does indeed deserve a deeper look.
I asked Grok, “ Give me a list of articles in the New York Times in 2026 that were complimentary of Melania Trump,”
Grok answered, “ There appear to be no New York Times articles from 2026 that are clearly complimentary of Melania Trump.” Huh.
I see. You are clearly not sorry, even though you say you are. A hypocrite calling others “hypocrites.” No shame, no honor, no fixed moral code. Sort of like a whore.
An honest man would have added two more words, which I've added in square brackets: "there are [allegedly] sketchy things in Melania's past that deserve scrutiny that have nothing to do with her [alleged] sexual exploits".
I, for one, am amazed Grok did not not find Hillary Clinton or Jackie Kennedy to be among the most disrespected of First Ladies. Well, perhaps Grok was looking at public opinion, not the misbehavior of the husbands, in terms of disrespect.
"The fact is that comments do often disappear randomly. It must suck to be such a known asshole that you can't tell whether a particular comment disappeared because you're an asshole and she deleted it, or just at random, or whether you stupidly thought it disappeared when it didn't. It's certainly a comfort to know that mine only disappear at random and will likely turn up again at some random time - sooner if I ask Ann to get it out of the spam filter."
True. It even happens to my own comments sometimes. I check the filter from time to time and release things that it shouldn't have caught.
In this case I saw a response to something that wasn't there, so I suspected the spam filter, checked it, and released the comment.
I realize that it is human nature to think there's special meaning to something random that happens to you, but I'm not patrolling the comments looking for things to delete.
If I decide you are someone who is in bad faith, though, I may put you in the small group of commenters I ALWAYS delete. That's a concept that has to do with my belief that you are here to ruin the forum.
Freder,
Has anyone, left or right anywhere in the world ever denied that Big Mike identifies as a woman?
What more do you want?
John Henry
Not our Big Mike.
Big Mike Obama
John Henry
But then he wouldnt work fof the Times
Luck be the lady or something nefarious, political, Diverse, perhaps.
I’ve been called a cunt several times in these comments sections over the years and had comments directed at me by one particular commenter repeatedly regarding electronic sexual devices. I didn’t hear a peep about sexism or sexual harassment comments allowed to remain and not deleted.
This would reinforce those who draw a parallel between Jackson/Eastern Establishment relations in the early 1800s and those of Trump/WokeMedia&Govt&Academy today.
They are both pretty ugly to folks they see as beneath them, aren't they? Too bad for the toffs that the proles are not too stupid to notice this, like they think we are.
Maybe not by the press but certainly Clinton was treated much more harshly by Republicans than melania has been by Democrats. I think most people think baby eating is worse than sex for pay.
The clintons who enabled epstein weinstein madoff in out of office who brokered uranium who helped loot nigeria (their assiciates) who provided china with missile technology, shall i go on
LOL. Inga comes to Freder's rescue. Made my day.
“When someone like Melania gets out of line you resort to attacking her citizenship.”
“You do not belong in a free country.”
Not only is Achilles an extremist nut case, he’s a huge hypocrite.
It was on the front page of the NYT, and it was written by Maureen Dowd. Dowd was reporting on a book written by Kitty Kelley. The book stated that Nancy used to give her favors to Frank Sinatra in the White House while the President was napping. As I remember, Dowd did nothing to discredit those reports.
Thats how she got her column (that and other favors)
On the plus side for Melania, she's a very good looking woman and salacious rumors increase in direct proportion to a woman's desirability.....Eleanor Roosevelt, like Mother Teresa, was immune to nasty rumors. Her sex history was not impeccable though. She wasn't whorish, but she was caddish. She discarded her lesbian lover in an uncaring way. There were never any reports in the press about this or whatever was going on with Joseph Lash until decades later.
"a special Whore Visa"
That's an immigration policy I could get behind! CC, JSM
Very hot in the kitchen. Too bad the Trump family doesn't like dogs. Although I'm sure JD Vance and Pete Jegseth do well as a reasonable facsimile in a pinch.
Here's a variation on the theme. Lady Hamilton was an actual, honest to God whore. She was at one time an actual street walker. She went on to become the model in Romney's portraits and best selling prints and then to become Lord Nelson's lover. I think people think of her as the kind of Marilyn Monroe of her age, but she was a lot more than that. She was, in effect the ambassador to the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies at a pivotal moment in the Napoleonic wars. She did a good job. She was closer to a Pamela Harriman than a Marilyn Monroe, but she never got credit for anything but good looks and the ability to strike a pose.......Nelson truly loved her. His dying request was that his country should take care of her and their daughter. No such luck. She died in poverty and on an overdose, probably intentional.
steve uhr said...
Maybe not by the press but certainly Clinton was treated much more harshly by Republicans than melania has been by Democrats. I think most people think baby eating is worse than sex for pay.
Bill Clinton beat and raped Paula Jones.
Saying that out loud isn't harsh treatment. It is saying the truth.
The difference is you and your media filth are making shit up about Melania because you are pieces of shit.
Inga said...
“When someone like Melania gets out of line you resort to attacking her citizenship.”
“You do not belong in a free country.”
Not only is Achilles an extremist nut case, he’s a huge hypocrite.
Explain how I was wrong about anything I said.
You act like a fascist.
You don't belong in a free country.
Where is the hypocrisy? Do you even know what the word hypocrite means? How stupid are you?
You are clearly not sorry, even though you say you are.
Well, I am sorry. You assume things about me based purely on animus.
Vivien Leigh as Lady H and Olivier's portrayal of Nelson in the 1941 movie That Hamilton Woman deserve recognition for the near-amusing depiction of such a scandalous affair. We are supposed to feel pity for Nelson and for the Lady, but keeping straight faces through the end of the film must have been hard for the costars.
And having not yet seen the Malenia movie, all I can say is Hillary Clinton will never be President and thank my lucky stars nobody has made that beast's biopic.
You act like a fascist.
You really need to study fascism and come back and tell us why you are not a fascist. Anyone who thinks anyone who disagrees with them or does not fit their very narrow definition of "freedom" deserves to be exiled, imprisoned or executed sounds like a fascist to me.
I have never, even though I think you are a disgusting, fascist freak, wished you dead, told you to move out of the country, or thought you should be imprisoned. Maybe committed, as you may be a danger to others, but that is not my call to make.
Not to be a grammar Nazi, but saying someone is "acting like a Fascist" is not in fact calling him a Fascist. On the other hand, if someone accuses you of "acting as a Fascist", then he's calling you a Fascist.
And writing "I think you are a disgusting, fascist freak" is also calling someone a Fascist, even if you don't capitalize it.
Freder Frederson said...
You act like a fascist.
You really need to study fascism and come back and tell us why you are not a fascist. Anyone who thinks anyone who disagrees with them or does not fit their very narrow definition of "freedom" deserves to be exiled, imprisoned or executed sounds like a fascist to me.
I have never, even though I think you are a disgusting, fascist freak, wished you dead, told you to move out of the country, or thought you should be imprisoned. Maybe committed, as you may be a danger to others, but that is not my call to make.
This is the fundamental dishonesty on display.
This person supported trying to throw Trump in jail.
This person supports vote by mail no id voter fraud.
this person supported removing everyone who disagreed with him from social media for years.
This person supports open borders.
This person claims they never did any of these things.
He has to be dishonest because he knows what he actually supports is fascism, and he tries to conflate my point about his actual fascism in order to obfuscate.
I disagree with RFK and Gabbards and other liberals on many things. I can live with them and discuss differences. We can live together in a free country.
Freder cannot. He must throw his opponents in jail and support censorship because the things he supports are fundamentally anti-freedom. He must attack Melania's citizenship because she is a threat to his power. He is fundamentally incompatible with a free country.
Point out that you are a fascist trying to take my freedom is not fascist you retard.
Big Mike?
Well more of a commie
Melania grew up in Communist slovenia in the last days of the cold war
“Lady Hamilton was an actual, honest to God whore.”
I can’t stop laughing at this line.
Empress Theodora was allegedly a prepubescent whore and an actress. Likely she saved Justinian's glorious reign during the Blue and Green Riots.
Aren't we beyond purity tests?
Eric the Fruit Bat said...
Being overall pretty ignorant of history, it was just last week or so I learned that Louis XIV had not only a wife and official mistresses, but unofficial mistresses as well (whatever that means) and lots of kids out of them all.
It's good to be the King. At least, it is unless the peasants show up with a guillotine.
Thats according to procopius a disgruntled office seeker on his second run
"She has called me an asshole at least twice."
Yes, she has shown remarkable restraint.
"Anyone who thinks anyone who disagrees with them or does not fit their very narrow definition of "freedom" deserves to be exiled, imprisoned or executed sounds like a fascist to me."
Said without a hint of irony.
Melania has a very sketchy past. She almost certainly violated her visa when she first arrived in the U.S. Her green card was fraudulently obtained. She was admitted on a so called Einstein Visa which is supposed to be reserved for highly skilled technical experts.
I see. So now Freder gives a shit about illegal immigration.
Eleanor Roosevelt was widely hated in the white South, for obvious reasons, while her husband kept getting their votes. I found a small paperback decrying her in my great aunt's junk 25 years after her death. Should have saved it.
Said without a hint of irony.
When have I said anything like this?
And of course, Achilles can not provide any evidence of the bullshit laundry list he provided. Granted, I do think Trump should stand trial for some of the shit he has pulled, and if found guilty, then yes, he should go to jail.
I disagree with RFK and Gabbards and other liberals on many things. I can live with them and discuss differences. We can live together in a free country.
Well, that is quite a change of heart for you.
I see. So now Freder gives a shit about illegal immigration.
Again, like Achilles you are putting thoughts and beliefs in my head. But I am more concerned with the hypocrisy of Trump, who managed to get Melania a green card for which she was not qualified.
I'm trying to remember who, besides my old and now departed friend Gahrie, was a "repeal the 19th" advocate. I haven't heard anyone say it here in quite a while - but for a while, it did come up pretty frequently.
The thing about that position is that one could go back further in time (farther? I don't think it's "farther" - time isn't a place - but I will accept correction) and hear people making similar arguments against universal male franchise and universal white male franchise. Saying it's "sexist" doesn't address the person's argument at all - it might be purely sexist, or purely pragmatic based on observed results of the policy, or somewhere in between. (I should note that there have been times when, based on the behavior of too many women in the electorate, I've wondered if that "repeal the 19th" cohort might have a point.)
Similarly, name-calling: our host drew a distinction between name-calling and actual accusations of behavior, so name-calling isn't an issue in this post, it seems to me. Whether it's "sexist" to call a woman a "cunt" again just begs the question: it's an insulting word that, in the US, is typically only applied to women, but in Britain is applied generally. So unless it's sexist to call a man a "dick," I tend to think that the intent of the name-caller was specifically to be insulting in a way that doesn't actually say anything about the woman in question but uses a very high-load word to do it, rather than to denigrate her as a woman out of sexism against women. I, for instance, haven't been called a "cunt" here even when I've gotten on the wrong side of some of our male commenters. It does provoke a reaction in a way that, say, "idiot" doesn't.
[shrug] YMMV.
"Eleanor Roosevelt was widely hated in the white South, for obvious reasons, while her husband kept getting their votes."
Yeah, that's what liberals want to believe. Everyone loved her except a few racists in the South upset over her "Love of the Negro". No, she was disliked by a lot of average people because she was a partisan hack and pro-communist. Eisenhower disliked her for spreading rumors that Mame was a drunk. Others disliked her for her pushing the Morgenthau plan and sneers at Catholics.
"That is because it is personal between me and her."
It is personal between you and everyone else here. Because you make it so. From the beginning, you have aggressively called anyone who disagrees with you stupid and worse.
Again, like Achilles you are putting thoughts and beliefs in my head.
They're not thoughts and beliefs in your head when you write them down, jackass.
You've never said a damn word about millions of illegal aliens before, but the very second the subject is Melania Trump? Now it's a concern.
@Freder Frederson: "... But I am more concerned with the hypocrisy of Trump, who managed to get Melania a green card for which she was not qualified. ..."
How so, and how are you certain of this?
Any First Lady who takes an active role in politics comes up for abuse. Eleanor Roosevelt and Hillary Clinton, for example. Melania hasn't taken an active part in politics or substantive government policy, has she? Chalk it up first to the Democrat's abuse of Republican First Ladies (Mamie Eisenhower, Pat Nixon, Nancy Reagan), and second to the increasing malice, barbarism and vulgarity of today's politics.
Gullibility is also involved. Somebody makes a joke about Michelle Obama being a man, in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Not correcting it becomes one of the requirements for belonging to the team. Eventually, people start believing it. It's similar with this "whore" talk. Similar with Kamala Harris as well. She did get appointed to government boards through her lover's influence though.
The trolley has achieved the objective of derailing the thread and making it about the troll.
Narciso, yeah, but the story is too good not to enjoy. And she was an actress and for most of human history they were all prostitutes.
Speaking of foul names to call women... I've been watching the 2nd season of Deadlock on Prime.It's funny but totally vulgar, full of disgusting boy humor but transposed to nasty girl humor by being a mostly lesbian police procedural. Australian and I needed closed captioning to have a clue as to what's happening. Do you figure nastiness impinges more on the brain when read rather than heard? I learned and promptly forgot all kinds of awful terms to call women.
All the time Freder. You pontificate routinely about about shit you know nothing about.
Which makes me suspect you're an academic.
Most presidential wives--hell, most political wives--strike me as good subjects for doggy-style sex. In the dark.
Howard said...
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Too bad the Trump family doesn't like dogs.
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TBH, there is no evidence that the Trump family doesn't like dogs. Or cats for that matter. More likely is, they are fully aware doesn't allow them the time to properly deal with pet ownership. It's a favor to dogs to not be owned by people who don't have time for them or a need for their companionship. And dogs need and/or crave companionship, close companionship, with their humans.
Our dogs, all of them over the year, have plopped down on our bed and slept next to us. And all but one of our cats. We currently have 3 of them. And I wake up daily with all 3 on the bed. During the night they wander on and off and roam the house doing mysterious cat things.
I have known many people over the years that have expressed a desire to have a canine or feline companion. But their job or allergies or something else - sometimes significant other - prevent them from having one.
There is something unique and atavistic about having a dog or cat (or both) snuggle up to your torso or legs at night and give out a deep sigh of contentment as they do it. It's a unique bond. Our cats come and go, too.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
"Another non-First Lady case is Kamala Harris."
That doesn't count. The reason that First Ladies are not supposed to be treated badly is that they didn't run for office and they don't wield any legal authority. They're family and need to be treated as such.
Presidents and Presidential candidates get treated badly all the time. That's part of the job. That shouldn't be a part of the job for a First Lady.
Democrats are quick to admonish us to "believe ALL women" - then they go soft on crime which directly impacts women the hardest. They DEI women into positions of importance which ALWAYS backfires when they predictably fail to meet the actual qualifications of said position, further diminishing the reputation of ALL women, then as the coup de grace, they force mentally ill biological men into biological female athletics and private spaces. The rest of us are not supposed to notice but if we do, we're part of the patriarchy and anti- feminist. LOLGFYS
Feminists or not, the same people who call Melania a whore don’t believe it. How do I know? Because they celebrate real whores, constantly take overt and covert actions to celebrate “sex work” even expose children to it as an option. They love whores! Hollywood is almost 100% whores yet those skanks are the most vocal on X slagging the First Lady.
Maybe Freder does believe it. Commies are stupid enough to believe anything. Hell, they believe in the the commie fairy that will someday make it all work.
Remember the call me daddy podcast and how they thought it was great for kamala to go on it
Inga: you dealt it; you smelled it. And that's all you're worth.
Melania Trump is one of our more independent and accomplished First Ladies and rose above real oppression. Get back to me when you can speak five languages and was an entrepeneur in a communist-oppressed country as a child. She's self-made, to fine effect. And she doesn't give a crap what you think.
That's a natural, accomplished feminist.
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