"It is, simply, un-American. It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose. If it were ever to be built, future generations would dream of its demolition. Its injury to the democratic spirit is too large to contemplate, and would be too hard to look past, even from a distance."
Look at the Holocaust museum in DC. The Washington momument. Or the Empire State building. The USA has always been about small, tasteful, even twee buildings.
We're a modest people. Used to hiding our light under a basket. That's why Trump lost 3 times.
"Is gigantism un-American?" The NYC libtard writer's opinion is completely wrong and absolutely unAmerican. The USA is one of the 5 largest countries in the world, the richest, and the most powerful and has been for generations, and even when there were nations that rivaled the USA in power, our American zeitgeist drove us to be bigger and better, to discover new wonders, to attempt the improbable and achieve the impossible.
When Gutzon Borglum was lobbying the USA Congress for funding to create the sculpture of Mount Rushmore, he argued that the USA needed it because the country lacked any monuments large enough to represent such a grand and awesome nation.
Gopnik's attitude is the braindead knee-jerk anti-American loserism of contemporary Western leftists.
When I saw Mount Rushmore, my first thought was "Would Someone named Gopnick approve?" and my 2nd "Wow, this is so ungraceful. I hope someone demolishes it. And restore our Democratic Values".
Personally, I want my public momuments and buildings to be graceful and lithe, like a ballerina. They should shimmer and dance as they prance and leap accross my field of vision. While speaking French.
Back in the 90’s, I was planning a trip to Paris and I read Gopnik’s book. What brain dead, meandering claptrap. I would not believe anything this hack writes. His brain is like Swiss Cheese.
If a President Harris had proposed a gigantic monument of any kind, even the same arch Trump is proposing, for the 250th July 4th, I guarantee you that Gropnik would be slobbering with praise for the project.
There's an arch in St. Louis that's 630 ft high and goes across the Mississippi River. Completed over a half century ago, before this pathetic whiner sprouted his first chin hair,
Whatever place you move DC to will become DC. People who like being government workers will move there. Think of state capitals: even in red states, they tend to be blue cities.
The distributed-capital concept might help: move the Pentagon to some big air force base, the Ag Dept to Topeka, Energy to the Alaskan oil fields, Congress to St Louis, etc. But you'd still wind up with a bunch of mini-DCs as all the would-be regulatory captors swarm their relocated prey. CC, JSM
You mean like permitting millions of invaders who hate the country to stream across the border and proceed to strip away whatever wealth they can grab for themselves?
There is nothing more American than giantism married to questionable taste. Take the Obama library in Chicago, for instance. The Arc d'Trump is far prettier than that.
Aggie said... ..."It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose.....", allowing a space for the conquering German armies to march triumphantly through after the French surrender.
It is, simply, un-American. It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose
This is obviously untrue, if you compared the Arc de Triomphe with any of its antecedents. It's 50 meters tall, more than twice the height of the Arch of Constantine, making it something like ten times the size of the largest traditional triumphal arch. It's comically oversized, and the only reason you could say it is "right-sized" for its place and purpose is that its place and purpose is to proclaim the overblown sense of self-importance and gaudy grandeur first of the Bonaparte, undrr whom the arch was first conceived, and then of the French state. It's a beloved monument today (I like it myself), but it's hardly a compelling example of something "right-sized."
First: I can't believe it took a while hour for the Gateway Arch to come up! I wonder if this Gopnik dude even knows it exists. And then:
the only reason you could say it [the Arc de Triomphe] is "right-sized" for its place and purpose is that its place and purpose is to proclaim the overblown sense of self-importance and gaudy grandeur first of the Bonaparte, undrr whom the arch was first conceived, and then of the French state. It's a beloved monument today (I like it myself), but it's hardly a compelling example of something "right-sized."
I think it has just as much to do with the fact that there is no one today who is familiar with it AND remembers a time when it didn't exist. The done deal, so to speak, carries a lot of weight in how people perceive the things around them.
Ironically (in my opinion) it works the same way in reverse: leap forward in time by even twenty years, to when state events are regularly occurring in the ballroom, and literally no one will still be revisiting this stupid kerfuffle about it - its size will be an irrelevancy. But right now, because there's no ballroom and the chattering classes are accustomed to dignitaries' traipsing across dewy grass to a tent for affairs of state, and of course because it's Trump building it, it's an abomination.
To demolish point #1, the Chrysler Building in New York and the Empire State Building in their day, the Sears Tower (whatever It’s called these days), the Mall of the Americas, our giant football stadiums, the Twin Towers in their day — America does “gigantic” and we tend to do it well, thank you.
But Trump’s arch bothers me, and I think I have a new realization of why that is. Memorial Bridge leads from DC into Arlington Cemetery. These days too many of the people who will sleep there forever served in wars without a victory — Vietnam, Afghanistan, even Korea. A triumphal arch just feels wrong, like giving those soldiers and fliers and sailors a one finger salute. That’s my two cents.
Trump - the Art of Ruffling Feathers. Remember when Obama held his victory party in Colorado with the Gigantic Columns? Podnik? Pudnik? didn't say squat about that. Piss off.
The Arc De Triomphe was the largest arch in the world at the time of its completion. It was built to celebrate the victories of Napoleon's Grand Army. Waterloo is not one of the battles it celebrates. From what I read on AI, some of the intellectuals were opposed to it because of its massive structure. Their opposition was not, however, directed against the Grand Army....You would think that celebration of a megalomaniac general and his conquering army is inherently fascistic, but that wasn't the ethos of the time. After it was finally completed the French and even the French left learned to love it.
Baron Haussmann gets credit for the beauty of Paris, but the credit properly belongs to Napoleon III. He was the one who kept the program going despite widespread popular opposition. Hundreds of thousands of Parisian residents were forcibly relocated during the construction of those wide, scenic boulevards. Opposition was particularly vocal among the French left. Zola did not approve......Well, Paris turned out to be Napoleon III's most enduring achievement. His imperial goals not so much. More like an enduring disaster. It is instructive to note that the French left, although they sometimes criticized his tactics, were generally supportive of his imperial ambitions. That, they felt, was how civilization got spread.....We'll see how it goes with Trump's monuments. It's fair to say that leftist intellectuals are no great judges of aesthetics or the dynamics of history.
Big Mike, I think your point it interesting and valid about the view from Arlington cemetery, but I do want to provide a counter argument. Though the war they fought in didn't achieve the objectives, the country they fought and died for is still strong and the new arch represents it. Those soldiers gave us a powerful country, and the value of it has never meant more to me than it does today.
It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose.
Does Gopnik really not know what was said about Eiffel Tower when it was built?
Here’s a hint: exactly what he says about Trump’s arch.
As usual, Trump’s critic just makes up whatever he wants, confident that his fellow travellers will cheer anything he says so long as he hates what they hate.
Here in Austin, TX, Walmart wanted permits for four stores near neighborhoods that would protest the heck out of increased traffic and so on. Because Walmart and lefty Austin, that's why. So Walmart asked for permits for FIVE stores, one of which they wanted to build in the environmentally sensitive Edwards Aquifer recharge zone. Screams of environutjob outrage ensued! So Walmart backed down, grudgingly, and accepted that the fifth store would be removed from their request, leaving (ta-daa!) the four stores they actually wanted to build, and a lot of great community praise for their environmental sensibility.
Trump can do the same thing, de-embiggening the arch to please these mongrels nipping at his heals. Or not, either way works for me.
And William, the streets of Paris are so wide and straight for the use of the military against the citizens, using grapeshot from cannons and lines of musketry against rioters.
Yes, the French gave the world the Louvre, Versailles, and Napoleon's tomb in Les Invalides. There's a trend towards giganticism there that can't be overlooked or denied.
It's also noteworthy how structures that were despised and ridiculed when they first were proposed and built came to be beloved local landmarks, the Eiffel Tower and the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center being the prime examples.
I thought the arch's height of 250 ft was meant to commemorate the Bisesquicentennial, the Quarter-Millenium. And I thought I heard Trump say that its location was to honor the dead in Arlington. But I haven't seen this recently mentioned, and since they would give the concept a positive symbolic meaning, I don't expect to.
I still think calling it the Arc de Trumpf has a special, nicely sarcastic double-meaning harmony to it.
The US is full of big monuments befitting big important figures in a great country. Rushmore, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial. The difference is, Washington didn’t build the monument to himself (and would have been uncomfortable with its existence). Building gold plated monuments to yourself is the kind of thing that in the past would’ve been the way of Putin, or the guy in Belarus, or Napoleon. Why are we cheering this expensive trolling exercise? This, and the Obama library, are just gross.
I see it’s funded by private donations. Why does that make it OK? If we can build anything on public land as long as it’s private money, I would prefer they build a Buc-ees.
Its injury to the democratic spirit is too large to contemplate
Oh good Lord. Is Gopnik always a drama queen?
In an era when politicians are happy take what they can get while riding the decline of America, and our bedrock institutions are disappointing, Trump wants to build a big things.
I don't know what topics interest Adam Gopnik, but perhaps he can find something productive to write about.
I refuse to be lectured to on the subject of American values by people who don't believe in freedom of speech, Equal Protection, the Second Amendment, free enterprise, the concept of federalism, etc.
Living near Valley Forge National Park, I can tell you we have a triumphal arch. Looks just like the one Trump wants for the 250th anniversary. We also have multiple arches entering the National Parks out West.
By a large margin — Americans do not want this in their capital. Does that matter at all to Republicans or does it only matter what Trump wants? This attitude is why they are going to get cooked in the midterms.
I have an idea — try healthcare, see how that polls with the American public.
Sure but carving the Faces of Presidents into a mountain is totally American. I don't really care about the size of the thing and this guy would be happy if it have Obama's name carved into the top of it.
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76 comments:
Big is un-American? Since when? CC, JSM
..."It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose....."
You can almost hear him sniff, imperiously, nose in the air.
Checked his picture, yeah he's got just the face and schnozzer for it.
Is gigantism un-American?
Look at the Holocaust museum in DC. The Washington momument. Or the Empire State building. The USA has always been about small, tasteful, even twee buildings.
We're a modest people. Used to hiding our light under a basket. That's why Trump lost 3 times.
Gigantism is unAmerican? Nobody tell Texas!
"Is gigantism un-American?"
The NYC libtard writer's opinion is completely wrong and absolutely unAmerican. The USA is one of the 5 largest countries in the world, the richest, and the most powerful and has been for generations, and even when there were nations that rivaled the USA in power, our American zeitgeist drove us to be bigger and better, to discover new wonders, to attempt the improbable and achieve the impossible.
When Gutzon Borglum was lobbying the USA Congress for funding to create the sculpture of Mount Rushmore, he argued that the USA needed it because the country lacked any monuments large enough to represent such a grand and awesome nation.
Gopnik's attitude is the braindead knee-jerk anti-American loserism of contemporary Western leftists.
When I saw Mount Rushmore, my first thought was "Would Someone named Gopnick approve?" and my 2nd "Wow, this is so ungraceful. I hope someone demolishes it. And restore our Democratic Values".
Personally, I want my public momuments and buildings to be graceful and lithe, like a ballerina. They should shimmer and dance as they prance and leap accross my field of vision. While speaking French.
It's in our nature: Grand Canyon, Great Lakes, Rocky Mountains, Mississippi River, Great Plains, Gulf of America, Giant Redwoods...
They're still working on Crazy Horse as Gigantor.
Back in the 90’s, I was planning a trip to Paris and I read Gopnik’s book. What brain dead, meandering claptrap. I would not believe anything this hack writes. His brain is like Swiss Cheese.
If a President Harris had proposed a gigantic monument of any kind, even the same arch Trump is proposing, for the 250th July 4th, I guarantee you that Gropnik would be slobbering with praise for the project.
Gopnik, now that's funny
However, for anniversary, I think a far more salubrious commemoration would be to move D.C. to South Dakota.
Trump puts his imprimatur on something, it has to be ridiculed. Bad by nature.
Injury to the democratic spirit? lolwut
De gustibus non disputandum est.
No one has demolished the Washington Monument and obelisks diminish our capitol.
Trump’s arch would fit in. But obelisks & pyramids don’t.
Yancey Ward said...
However, for anniversary, I think a far more salubrious commemoration would be to move D.C. to South Dakota.
Nome.
"When asked by a reporter whom the arch would be for, Trump said 'Me'"
Trollmaster in Chief.
A perspective that celebrates American exceotionalism, once, and now, again. Progress.
All opinion by a Trump hater. Discount this opinion to zero.
America has always been about being exceptional, big, first and great. Why did we go to the Moon?
If I was allowed to say that gopnik is a retard, I would say that he was.
Gutzon Borglum is an alum of Omaha Creighton Prep! My alma mater.
There's an arch in St. Louis that's 630 ft high and goes across the Mississippi River. Completed over a half century ago, before this pathetic whiner sprouted his first chin hair,
The Washington momument: the tallest obelisk in the world. 2x taller than what Trump is proposing.
Gateway Arch: the tallest arch in the world, 2.5x taller than what Trump is proposing.
Whatever place you move DC to will become DC. People who like being government workers will move there. Think of state capitals: even in red states, they tend to be blue cities.
The distributed-capital concept might help: move the Pentagon to some big air force base, the Ag Dept to Topeka, Energy to the Alaskan oil fields, Congress to St Louis, etc. But you'd still wind up with a bunch of mini-DCs as all the would-be regulatory captors swarm their relocated prey. CC, JSM
Trump slightly gave the game away when asked who it was for. “Me” came the slightly too-fast answer. A monument, perhaps, to winning too much.
It takes the most generic features of a *insert next Trump ridiculous farce* and adds some gold paint.
Shelley's poem about Ozymandias springs to mind at a moment like this.
FWIW: The Monument to the Revolution in Mexico City is the world’s tallest memorial arch.
Aggie, the St Louis Arch does not cross the river.
"Why did we go to the moon?" To drink Tang and play golf.
South Dakota
Nome
Lagrange point 3
What did Topeka due to deserve that
Its like planting face hugger hives in the midwest
Alaska is already too dominated by seattle interests
"It is, simply, un-American.."
You mean like permitting millions of invaders who hate the country to stream across the border and proceed to strip away whatever wealth they can grab for themselves?
That kind of "un-American?"
Lol @ Gopnik. The point is not worth rebutting but lol, what a Gopnik.
@Narr, yeah I don't know why I remembered it that way, either. I've driven past the damn thing twice.
I've been up to the top of the Arch. The short trip in the egg was bad enough; if it had been across the river I wouldn't have got on.
It's Un-European, which to the Adam Gopniks of the world, is Unamerican.
Tarrou said...
"It's Un-European, which to the Adam Gopniks of the world, is Unamerican."
C'est vrai!
There is nothing more American than giantism married to questionable taste. Take the Obama library in Chicago, for instance. The Arc d'Trump is far prettier than that.
Aggie said...
..."It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose.....", allowing a space for the conquering German armies to march triumphantly through after the French surrender.
Sometimes a man just has to validate himself.
It is, simply, un-American. It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose
This is obviously untrue, if you compared the Arc de Triomphe with any of its antecedents. It's 50 meters tall, more than twice the height of the Arch of Constantine, making it something like ten times the size of the largest traditional triumphal arch. It's comically oversized, and the only reason you could say it is "right-sized" for its place and purpose is that its place and purpose is to proclaim the overblown sense of self-importance and gaudy grandeur first of the Bonaparte, undrr whom the arch was first conceived, and then of the French state. It's a beloved monument today (I like it myself), but it's hardly a compelling example of something "right-sized."
I'm all for naming it "The Trump Arch" after he leaves office. Heads exploding all over the place.
First: I can't believe it took a while hour for the Gateway Arch to come up! I wonder if this Gopnik dude even knows it exists. And then:
the only reason you could say it [the Arc de Triomphe] is "right-sized" for its place and purpose is that its place and purpose is to proclaim the overblown sense of self-importance and gaudy grandeur first of the Bonaparte, undrr whom the arch was first conceived, and then of the French state. It's a beloved monument today (I like it myself), but it's hardly a compelling example of something "right-sized."
I think it has just as much to do with the fact that there is no one today who is familiar with it AND remembers a time when it didn't exist. The done deal, so to speak, carries a lot of weight in how people perceive the things around them.
Ironically (in my opinion) it works the same way in reverse: leap forward in time by even twenty years, to when state events are regularly occurring in the ballroom, and literally no one will still be revisiting this stupid kerfuffle about it - its size will be an irrelevancy. But right now, because there's no ballroom and the chattering classes are accustomed to dignitaries' traipsing across dewy grass to a tent for affairs of state, and of course because it's Trump building it, it's an abomination.
To demolish point #1, the Chrysler Building in New York and the Empire State Building in their day, the Sears Tower (whatever It’s called these days), the Mall of the Americas, our giant football stadiums, the Twin Towers in their day — America does “gigantic” and we tend to do it well, thank you.
But Trump’s arch bothers me, and I think I have a new realization of why that is. Memorial Bridge leads from DC into Arlington Cemetery. These days too many of the people who will sleep there forever served in wars without a victory — Vietnam, Afghanistan, even Korea. A triumphal arch just feels wrong, like giving those soldiers and fliers and sailors a one finger salute. That’s my two cents.
Adam Gopnik is violating his own aesthetic here. Unsurprising.
We honor people who serve faithfully. Is probably derivative of honor thy father and mother.
Trump - the Art of Ruffling Feathers.
Remember when Obama held his victory party in Colorado with the Gigantic Columns? Podnik? Pudnik? didn't say squat about that. Piss off.
The arch may be "unamerican," but it's very New York. What is Manhattan but excess and grandiosity?
I would also give Trump credit for tearing down Stanford White's East Wing. He was the Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein of his day.
The Arc De Triomphe was the largest arch in the world at the time of its completion. It was built to celebrate the victories of Napoleon's Grand Army. Waterloo is not one of the battles it celebrates. From what I read on AI, some of the intellectuals were opposed to it because of its massive structure. Their opposition was not, however, directed against the Grand Army....You would think that celebration of a megalomaniac general and his conquering army is inherently fascistic, but that wasn't the ethos of the time. After it was finally completed the French and even the French left learned to love it.
Baron Haussmann gets credit for the beauty of Paris, but the credit properly belongs to Napoleon III. He was the one who kept the program going despite widespread popular opposition. Hundreds of thousands of Parisian residents were forcibly relocated during the construction of those wide, scenic boulevards. Opposition was particularly vocal among the French left. Zola did not approve......Well, Paris turned out to be Napoleon III's most enduring achievement. His imperial goals not so much. More like an enduring disaster. It is instructive to note that the French left, although they sometimes criticized his tactics, were generally supportive of his imperial ambitions. That, they felt, was how civilization got spread.....We'll see how it goes with Trump's monuments. It's fair to say that leftist intellectuals are no great judges of aesthetics or the dynamics of history.
Big Mike, I think your point it interesting and valid about the view from Arlington cemetery, but I do want to provide a counter argument. Though the war they fought in didn't achieve the objectives, the country they fought and died for is still strong and the new arch represents it. Those soldiers gave us a powerful country, and the value of it has never meant more to me than it does today.
It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose.
Does Gopnik really not know what was said about Eiffel Tower when it was built?
Here’s a hint: exactly what he says about Trump’s arch.
As usual, Trump’s critic just makes up whatever he wants, confident that his fellow travellers will cheer anything he says so long as he hates what they hate.
Here in Austin, TX, Walmart wanted permits for four stores near neighborhoods that would protest the heck out of increased traffic and so on. Because Walmart and lefty Austin, that's why. So Walmart asked for permits for FIVE stores, one of which they wanted to build in the environmentally sensitive Edwards Aquifer recharge zone. Screams of environutjob outrage ensued! So Walmart backed down, grudgingly, and accepted that the fifth store would be removed from their request, leaving (ta-daa!) the four stores they actually wanted to build, and a lot of great community praise for their environmental sensibility.
Trump can do the same thing, de-embiggening the arch to please these mongrels nipping at his heals. Or not, either way works for me.
And William, the streets of Paris are so wide and straight for the use of the military against the citizens, using grapeshot from cannons and lines of musketry against rioters.
..."It is even, in its derivative way, un-French, since the Parisian instances are, at least, right-sized for their place and their purpose....."
Not when they were built.
Yes, the French gave the world the Louvre, Versailles, and Napoleon's tomb in Les Invalides. There's a trend towards giganticism there that can't be overlooked or denied.
It's also noteworthy how structures that were despised and ridiculed when they first were proposed and built came to be beloved local landmarks, the Eiffel Tower and the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center being the prime examples.
Reminds me of that eyesore in Boston, the Citgo sign, that is now considered some piece of historical art that must be preserved at all costs.
Gopnik the Canadian is un-American.
Dude hasn't even considered the1973 Chrysler Imperial.
If Trump does it it must be bad. Predictable and boring.
The Citgo sign, hah ! For a Venezuelan company.
I thought the arch's height of 250 ft was meant to commemorate the Bisesquicentennial, the Quarter-Millenium. And I thought I heard Trump say that its location was to honor the dead in Arlington. But I haven't seen this recently mentioned, and since they would give the concept a positive symbolic meaning, I don't expect to.
I still think calling it the Arc de Trumpf has a special, nicely sarcastic double-meaning harmony to it.
The US is full of big monuments befitting big important figures in a great country. Rushmore, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial. The difference is, Washington didn’t build the monument to himself (and would have been uncomfortable with its existence). Building gold plated monuments to yourself is the kind of thing that in the past would’ve been the way of Putin, or the guy in Belarus, or Napoleon. Why are we cheering this expensive trolling exercise? This, and the Obama library, are just gross.
I see it’s funded by private donations. Why does that make it OK? If we can build anything on public land as long as it’s private money, I would prefer they build a Buc-ees.
Its injury to the democratic spirit is too large to contemplate
Oh good Lord. Is Gopnik always a drama queen?
In an era when politicians are happy take what they can get while riding the decline of America, and our bedrock institutions are disappointing, Trump wants to build a big things.
I don't know what topics interest Adam Gopnik, but perhaps he can find something productive to write about.
I refuse to be lectured to on the subject of American values by people who don't believe in freedom of speech, Equal Protection, the Second Amendment, free enterprise, the concept of federalism, etc.
Living near Valley Forge National Park, I can tell you we have a triumphal arch. Looks just like the one Trump wants for the 250th anniversary. We also have multiple arches entering the National Parks out West.
https://www.nps.gov/vafo/learn/historyculture/arch.htm
By a large margin — Americans do not want this in their capital. Does that matter at all to Republicans or does it only matter what Trump wants? This attitude is why they are going to get cooked in the midterms.
I have an idea — try healthcare, see how that polls with the American public.
Trump should just admit it was supposed to be 250 inches, but he put the wrong tick marks on the napkin sketch. CC, JSM
Sure but carving the Faces of Presidents into a mountain is totally American. I don't really care about the size of the thing and this guy would be happy if it have Obama's name carved into the top of it.
@Leland, thank you for your response. Your point seems valid.
These guys apply their current politics and assume future people will share it.
Look back at history. Abe Lincoln was hated so much an assassin killed him. Does anyone hate him now?
"I have an idea — try healthcare, see how that polls with the American public."
How about a free pony instead?
Medicaid, <Medicare, SCHIP, ACA subsidies, VA system./
I think we already do "healthcare"
Lefties have basically created a near single payer abomination but keep crying about healthcare.
Dude, read that list again. How many programs is that?
"Abe Lincoln was hated so much an assassin killed him. Does anyone hate him now?"
Stick around.
The ballroom is smaller than my grocery store.
Were it Obama, it'd be faboo.
A great number of those on the left know un-American through personal experience.
> I'm all for naming it "The Trump Arch" after he leaves office. Heads exploding all over the place.
Surely that would be the *Arc de Trump*.
> Is gigantism un-American?
Bigger is better. The 6000 SUX, an American tradition.
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