I paid for TurboTax and TurboTax kept goading me to pay even more to get more help from some additional service, but, of course, I took all my questions to Grok. Somehow it took me hours. What used to feel fast and helpful now feels archaic, abstruse, and ugly. I'm having deja vu. Did I say this last year? No, but looking for that, I found this:
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😡 We still go to a human tax "advisor," not because our taxes now are that complex, but because we have a giant capital loss (stock compensation that went to $0 upon a company bankruptcy) that we are always chipping away at via capital gains (we'll never use it up), and we want continuity and support in the event of an audit. Frustrates us every year.
TurboTax sucks big time. They are refusing to let me print copies of forms to review before I file. They did not import my tax filings from last year because they said the file was corrupted, which is BS since I hadn’t touched it since last year. This is my LAST YEAR for TT because it sucks.
For typical filings, tax software stagnated and commoditized long ago. TurboTax has profited from year-to-year customer inertia for more than a decade. I used TurboTax back in the day, but then TaxAct or FreeTaxUSA.
Other vendors can charge a fraction of the cost with the same forms, same data entry scripts, same error checking, and same filing process. They often have similar upsells for 'audit insurance' and human consultations too.
External AI tools work equally well with any of them.
Hooray, another stealth perma-subscription.
Make sure you pay what you owe.
Dont spend hours trying to keep your money from the gubmint.
These wars don't pay for themselves... you two have plenty. Pay your fair share, boomers.
The upselling is maddening. Turbo Tax, Norton Anti-virus, Grammarly The Great Courses. What used to be a single package is now broken out with constant nudges to Upgrade to Premium. Christ, it's exhausting..
Last year, I rolled an IRA CD into my IRA brokerage acct, both at Wells Fargo. Seemed like a common task to me, but they had to call HQ, and it still took 3 trips and a fax from me. Opening my 1099s last weekend, I discovered WF had reported the full amount as taxable income. Not pleased.
I've wanted to sell some stock that's been on dividend reinvestment for decades. It was such a hassle figuring my cost basis the last time I did it, I keep putting it off. Why can't they automate messy tasks like that?
I think my girl does our taxes by hand. All I have to do is sign the forms.
Ralph L --
Move to a firm that is primarily a brokerage (e.g., Schwab, Fidelity) rather than a bank with brokerage functions meant to squeeze profits from savers (e.g., WF or BofA). Lot sales and cost basis can indeed be calculated for you. I'd stay away from Vanguard (as a brokerage) per their platform limitations and "paper plates and folding chairs" staffing strategy.
All the fraud is so infuriating. Seems it will continue and they will get away with it and it will grow. I don't know what the answer is.
Parasites don't think about how many parasites there are. They don't think about the host. They just think about the blood. The intoxicating blood.
Is there a cure? We look to the parasites for a cure. They only feed and multiply.
I have been using TurboTax for over 30 years and it has gotten progressively harder to use the last several years, since switching from the desktop version to the online version. I can’t always enter things in the order TurboTax wants, and it can be hard to get back to a particular place when I do have the information.
Pay. Just Pay. The rent-seeking that is part of modern society is fraught with man-made obstacles whose sole purpose is to extract toll. We pay a fortune in subscriptions to streaming services that my wife uses. And cable. Remember when you bought cable to escape the commercials from network television, ha ha? Now you pay behemoths like Disney directly, by the month, and presto ! Make your selection and before you even start the movie, you get a minute of commercials. And regular reminders throughout the movie about more commercials I found this out with my grandkids, since I really don't watch TV.
Even John Deere has gotten into the subscription model, trying to shaft farmers that dare to fix their own f*ckin equipment in the middle of harvest, rather than rely & wait on Big Green. They just got handed a $99 million judgment for that piracy. Long may these successes continue. Business should innovate and improve, not turn themselves into cash perma-leeches.
Try h &r block I find it to be no fuss no muss
This is a uncompensated endorsement for freetaxusa dot com. I've been using them for years. The total cost each year is about $15 for filing my state return and $0 for federal. If you ever read anything on Reddit, it's the default recommendation for almost anyone that asks for suggestions instead of TurboTax. Often even alternatives if are not requested. They do a great job without the constant upsell.
I paid Turbotax $50 to ask where the estimated tax paid entry is. Bad design, you pay.
To echo a couple others, FreeTaxUSA is way, way better than Turbo tax.
I used turbo tax in the mid 90's and when they started gathering information regardless on my preferences, I switched to H&R blocks and have used it exclusively since and found it quite easy to use. I Do mine and my kids taxes every year. For simple returns I can use freetaxusa.
As for AI, it cannot handle complex or subtle things in accounting very well, but I did find it helpful for understanding tax implications of using a healthcare exchange.
Bottom line on AI, don't trust it 100%. I took a tax class this winter and problems from that class were answered incorrectly by AI. It's knowledge is robust, but it is not good on the edges.
It's an outrage that a regular person with simple financials--a job and a small retirement account--has taxes so complicated they need to pay for help complying.
Agree that TurboTax has a maddening UI, especially the constant upsell, even though I've used it for years. I usually skipped the "simplified" entry and went straight to DIY mode though I did use the Q&A mode this year (my taxes aren't 1040EZ but are significantly simpler than when I was employed plus had farm rental income via a family S-corp which lead me to pay income taxes to two states). I've never had a problem with information transfer, and I refuse to use a web-based version. I almost quit them a few years back when they moved handling any investment income more complicated than a savings account from one step above basic (which also included itemized deductions) to IIRC what had been the 'Small Business' (Schedule F) version.
The tax laws were written by Congress. Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
First point: Turbo users should try HRB instead. Never get any upselling and you can easily go to your known topics without going through the whole interview rigamarole.
Second point: Don't trust AI and don't trust human advisors unless they're certified. AI answers are not vetted and you could be getting wrong info without knowing it. Further, the AI will not know anything that you don't tell it, and the potential for not getting a full answer to your question is high. There are also some taxes that you'd NEVER think about (consider the health coverage tax and net investment tax) were it not for the full capture that you get with a packaged product.
I stick with HRB because it's easy for me, I know how it works and I can get my (somewhat complicated) taxes done in a couple of hours
It is no coincidence that the tax filing date, and the general election date, are just about as far apart on the calendar year as is possible. Elections should be, say, April 16. Let the tax filing rage be carried into the ballot box.
I used TT for a couple decades.. But the degradation of their "user experience" and the increase in my tax complexity (e.g. various private equity investments) pushed me back to a human again last year. So I pay her ten times as much as TT cost, which is money TT could have received if they had my interests in mind.
I used Turbo Tax for the first time last year. I wasn't particularly happy given the cost but at least I didn't have the return sent back by the IRS for neglecting to include some obscure form that was a requirement due to a particular form of income. I will likely use it again this weekend but not before trying AI to prepare them.
Meh, I've been using TT for probably 20 years. Doesn't bother me all that much. Straying away from the normal stuff can be minorly challenging.
I can remember doing taxes by hand. Then going to the Post office to send it registered mail. Today's its much easier.
I have spreadsheets formatted to look almost exactly like Federal and state tax forms, and prefer to look under the hood to see how all the numbers are handled. Tried TT years ago and decided it was not for me.
Switched over to TT after several years of paying accountant at mid-size CPA firm to do our slightly more complicated tax returns; in last year of relying on this supposed professional, found several typo number-entry errors in our bog-standard completed forms. Accountant response: oh, that's normal, don't worry about it.
As a US citizen living in Norway I have to file returns for both countries (the US and Eritrea are the only two countries that enforce citizenship-based taxation for long term expats).
The Norwegian return is a breeze as you go online to the govt. tax site where they have filled in all the information they have, such as wages, taxes paid, dividends, interest, capital gains) and you then correct and supplement as needed. All calculations are done on the goverment site, so no one needs to use tax software or hire help unless they have a very complicated tax situation.
Doing US taxes for expats is a real pain. I used to do it myself, but it's gotten too complicated and I now pay $400 a year to a company that specializes in it.
I continue to use TT because its error rate is no higher than a CPA, our returns have become simpler as we age and filing with TT offers audit defense (for a set price) plus plausibility with the service. However, ..., I've used AI to kick-start legal research on tax issues the past two years and it streamlines (it ain't flawless) tax research.
@Amexpat --
The US makes tax filing difficult because of aggressive lobbying by Intuit (TurboTax maker) and others. Back in the day, Republicans sought to make filing as simple as filling out a postcard. But donations. But it would destroy a profit center. But no one wants to hand over their personal finances to Elizabeth Warren and her CFPB crew.
My experience has been that H&R Block's "Taxcut" works pretty well and is a huge improvement over Turbotax. Although the last couple of years my wife and I have used a professional accountant due to retirement, moving, selling and buying a home, owning rental property, etc. I used to do my kid's taxes as well with TaxCut.
My understanding is that the Tax prep services are subsidized by the government to provide free (basic) tax return services in order to make sure that everybody files a return. If you are a young wage earner with only w-2 income the return is simple and you get your "refund" (the money they took from you and don't pay interest on) sooner.
I switched from a CPA to TurboTax desktop a few years ago--much faster and cheaper. The main thing I like about TurboTax is its ability to read the composite 1099 from the brokerage house and to put all the information where it needs to go for filling out the tax forms.
I don't need much beyond that, from either AI or additional services that TurboTax wants to sell.
I've used TT for eight years. I'm retired and my tax situation is about as simple as possible. The cost seems higher than the value, OTOH, I'm amazed at the ancillary forms that get produced each year to confirm eligibility for some benefit or alternate tax.
In the 1040s house there are many mansions. Tax software tries to cover all of them, but I only live in one.
It's an outrage that a regular person with simple financials--a job and a small retirement account--has taxes so complicated they need to pay for help complying.
This
It's also an outrage that having a small bank account if a foreign country is enough to be considered a Fat Cat.
I just spent all day with Turbo Tax. Hell holds no terror for me now.
Yes, it seems like being able to import your data directly would have made things easier. Perhaps it has, but the expectation that things will be easier and take less time, just makes the time spent that much more bothersome and frustrating.
The counter in the corner says I should be able to finish in 2 hours or less. I'm at six hours now. Ready to file, but I'm paying the extra money to have questions answered before sending it off. I spent a lot of time when I had to enter everything by hand, but I expected to and wasn't fooling myself.
Don't trust Turbo Tax's sidebar explanations. They never seem to deal with the actual questions one has. A web search will give you better information. A lot of that information comes from Turbo Tax, but isn't included with the program for some reason.
If you buy the "desktop version" (do they still even sell the discs?) you can look at and change forms as you go. You can't do that with the online version.
6 hours on the program's counter doesn't include the time I was off the program but still shuffling through documents and looking for answers.
I have an accountant do my taxes. I've used TurboTax in the past, but never really felt comfortable I was getting it right, what with my retirement accounts, social security, part time work and my tiny internet business. With the tax guy, I just save up all the tax stuff I get in the mail along with my business records and give it to him and he takes care of it all. Sometimes, he has a question for me about something, sometimes not.
YMMV, but it's worth the money it costs me to get this done by someone who actually knows something about preparing and filing taxes.
Canada withholds taxes on dividends, and we only get credit for a tiny fraction. Blame Canada!
It's weird that my great (or great great) aunt's stock in her tiny town's local bank became Planters National Bank, then Centura, then Royal Bank of Canada. At least it didn't collapse like Wachovia in 2008, thanks to Canada's laws.
I've been a TurboTax/MacInTax user since the 90s. For the last few years, I've been using the Home & Business desktop edition. There does seem to have been a major increase in the upselling and in pushing the web version over the desktop version this year. I found it extremely annoying and will be looking at alternatives for next year.
UltraTax CS
https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/en
Turbotax has a "deductions" button that CPAs love, because use of that button by self-filing individuals to lower one's taxes often leads to audits. And after that, to CPAs doing your taxes. Don't ask me how I know.
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