1. The manosphere
2. The patriarchy
3. A young British woman who died in 1848 of tuberculosis at the age of 30, but not before unleashing upon the world the most problematic love story of all time, 'Wuthering Heights.'"
Ha ha. I'm reading "'Wuthering Heights' and the birth of the toxic boyfriend/Heathcliff and Catherine’s trauma-bonded romance is dysfunctional and despicable. But you can’t help but weep" (WaPo).
There's a new movie version of "Wuthering Heights." You've probably noticed. This one stars Margot Robbie — the same actress who played "Barbie" and who is 35 years old, playing a character who, in the book, dies at the age of 18. I've seen some reviews of the new movie, and I was motivated to rewatch the great 1939 version.
What a great movie! I could see rewatching it again just to analyze Laurence Olivier. I'd turn off the sound just to concentrate on the way he walks and swoops about and looms over people. So delightfully melodramatic. Possibly my all-time favorite performance by an actor.Olivier didn't win an Oscar for that. It was 1939, so you might think it must have been Clark Gable for "Gone with the Wind" or James Stewart for "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington," but no. It was Robert Donat for "Goodbye, Mr. Chips."
Back to the Washington Post article:
If you were the random woman sitting behind me a few nights ago in a preview screening of a new “Wuthering Heights” movie, you must not understand the problem, because she spent Catherine’s death scene snorting, sighing and at one point muttering “oh come ON.”
Yeah? Show that random woman the 1939 movie. I think she would be weeping. Even if you know it's over-the-top and absurd, it makes you weep. You get chills in spite of yourself.
ADDED: Publishing this post, I clicked on my "Wuthering Heights" link and was pleased to see a post about the important occasion of Friday the 13th coming in February and pairing up with Valentine's day on a Saturday. You can't tell from the enigmatic post, but that was a very important day in my life.
Posts
80 comments:
My wife's sister is visiting, so the two of them have laid plans to go to one of those primo movie theaters, with big plushy recliners and waitstaff to bring you a fresh bubbly when you crook your pinky. The sister is very image oriented, so she's into seeing the beautiful people be beautiful, with full makeup and computer assists. Ugh.
Falstaff wasn't the best boyfriend, carousing, heading off to war, womanizing, but his common-law, non exclusive wife loved him. So I am calling BS on this being an Emily Brontë invention.
Men have been doing a lot of consciousness raising while women have been laying in bed, with one hand under the covers, watching shows like Bridgerton.
My understanding is its very nc 17, like the rebecca remake
You just reminded me that Valentines Day is in February this year. Usually my wife keeps me up to date but the last several months have been weird.
Went to see "Hamnet" and the trailer for this new WH was playing. It left me with zero desire to see it.
"Hamnet" was pretty good for a tear-jerker.
She dies at the end?
Spoiler alerts, please! :-)
My youngest stepson inherited his mother's good looks, but he was a bad boy. This made him a real chick magnet. He was better at being a bad boy than George Costanza. Unfortunately, he never grew out of it.
If, at any point in your life, you have ever believed that women say they want nice guys but really want bad guys
Then you've paid some attention to the behavior of women.
Your observation about Margot Robbie reminds me of the summary of a Netflix show called Nobody Wants This: 40 year olds playing 30 year olds who act like 20 year olds.
I wasn’t aware John Mellencamp was inspired by “Wuthering Heights”.
Misandrists?
Margot Robbie… the actress that had a cameo in “The Big Short” where she played herself taking a bath and explaining Mortgage Backed Bonds, because being naked in a tub helps make her seem an expert in discussing financial terms to the audience.
She also played the wife in “Wolf of Wallstreet” whom we are told gives great blowjobs while speeding down the road in a Lamborghini. Her breakout role was a psychologist that succumbed to a psychopath and became his “willing to do anything” girlfriend regardless how bad he treated her.
Now she is portraying a role that covers the horrors of the patriarchy? That will require some acting talent.
#HateLovesAbortion
While I would have personally voted for James Stewart, Donat's performance is pretty wonderful, as is the film.
Women want Fabio. Bodice-ripping Fabio. Women want to ride horses: big, strong, and dangerous, but under their control.
Women are embarrassed to say what they really want.
News at 11.
The real kicker here is the lack of ability to delay gratification.
For a woman to be happy in their 30s and beyond they need to act and do certain things in their 20s. These things used to be universal and celebrated.
Instead in their 20s they go to college and have lots of sex with the same top 10% of guys all the other women have sex with and they get a garbage degree and an air conditioned corporate wage slave job instead. They act like harem girls in their 20s and when they turn 30 or so they are mad that men don’t want a 30 something fat used harem girl possibly with a kid or 2 from other men.
If you find out what a woman wants, don't get crazy and try to tell her.
Dude, I think your picture of the norm, the 'status quo', represents maybe about 15-20% of the population. But enjoy your dyspeptic dystopia.
Tried reading WH once, got bored 1/4 of the way through.
Many (most?) women will say publicly that they really just want someone "Who's smart and funny and really cares about me" but in the end it's 6 feet, 6 figures, and hot the majority of the time. Incels, despite their own issues, are keenly aware of this duality.
(I may amend that to restrict to very attractive women)
The androgynous galaxy.
The fetus future.
The goad complex.
I liked her in the tarzan film as jane,
"Olivier didn't win an Oscar for that. It was 1939, so you might think it must have been Clark Gable for "Gone with the Wind" or James Stewart for "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington," but no. It was Robert Donat for "Goodbye, Mr. Chips.""
They made the right choice.
#4: Biochemistry. Lots of young women will be shocked to find that once they reach menopause, they are suddenly more immune to the manipulations of the opposite sex caused by lust. They will wonder why they found bad boys so appealing. The threat is coming from INSIDE the house!
I liked her role as Sharon Tate in "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood."
It's her role in Suicide Squad that is burned into my memory.
Ann, I'm with you! The 1939 version of Wuthering Heights is the best! I don't know why anyone would even attempt a remake.
Whether love has to hurt to be real is an idea or feeling or conclusion. Women's love for bad boys is more like an observable fact. The "patriarchy" and the "manosphere" are just observing how women behave now.
Maybe Emily Bronte was just observing women's behavior -- or maybe she was just expressing what her own feelings and experiences told her. One could make the case that the Romantics sent women's love of heroes a little (or a lot) more down the road to the love for dangerous "bad boys, but the phenomenon has been around for a very long while. There was much comment in the 18th century about women's love for the "good bad boy" Tom Jones.
The root may be the license that heroes like Odysseus were allowed to take with monogamy, while their wives were expected to patiently wait for them. If you're interested, Leslie Fiedler had a lot to say about "good bad boys," "bad good boys," "good bad girls," "bad good girls," etc. in literature.
That bit in "The Big Short" formed my impression of Margot Robbie. I can't share it in words that would be acceptable here.
because they want to make explicit, what was suggestive, certainly in the earlier iterations,
Leland noted John Mellencamp, Thanks for info, I had no idea!
How much I hate WH--not for Heathcliff, but for Cathy--the model for every "willful" woman to come--Scarlett O'Hara would not exist without Cathy. The focus of all the revisionism and scholarship on WH, is all Heathcliff focused, and Cathy's excesses are usually dismissed as her being some downtrodden product of the patriarchy--she's as much a villain as Heathcliff! The '39 version only stands on Olivier's portrayal--he's great as he is in the equally mis-adapted Pride & Prejudice--and the "nice" ending--they are happy ghosts together--is laughable id you've ever slogged through the book.
Freshman year in college as an electrical engineering major took a lit class to meet a graduation requirement. Wuthering Heights was one of the books. I think I was one of two guys in the class. Instructor would read passages out loud for discussion. Don’t think I had any participation points. Another book in that course was Camus’ “The Plague” which was more relatable.
From the Telegraph:
Wuthering Heights is a bosom-heaving, gasp-inducing thrill ride
almost seems interesting enough to check out,
I dislike these sanitized, cosplay bodice rippers. Especially in this case because those books tell a very important story about what’s life was like for women before they got the vote or could own property. It’s really about the damage that a patriarchal, hierarchal society creates and to use that as an excuse to create soft porn, and so celebrating exactly what the problem was, is deeply shabby.
It is pity that the film industry is legally allowed to call their half-baked stories and adaptations the same as the fine books they scrape their efforts from.
Wuthering Heights is a good revenge story. The trailer for the new one malted it’s seem like soft-core porn
From a future study of our culture:
or that romance and stalking are basically the same thing, I think we all know which entities are to blame:
1. The manosphere
2. The patriarchy
"Class, here you see an example of gaslighting in the wild, it was widely used in those dark times to "control the narrative." Thank goodness the aliens watching over our culture finally got sick of it and came down and knocked a few heads together and straightened things out down here." —Future college professor.
"According to Mattel, Barbie is perpetually
19 years old."
And Margo pulls it off quite well.
I got all I needed from WH by reading the book.
If you want to see a great romantic feature in theaters now, see “ Song Sung Blue.” It’s even set in Milwaukee.
Anthony said...Many (most?) women will say publicly that they really just want someone "Who's smart and funny and really cares about me"
That's who they want to marry.
in the end it's 6 feet, 6 figures, and hot the majority of the time.
That's whose children they want their husband to raise.
Really, though, any man who is nice, employed, and showers daily can find a decent woman. Most frustrated men are frustrated because they think they deserve a woman who is out of their league.
Leland said...
“I wasn’t aware John Mellencamp was inspired by “Wuthering Heights”.”
Little ditty, about Heathcliff and Cathriiiiine.
Two British kids growing up in the Midlands (*).
(*) Work with me. If you Don’t Stop Believin’ in South Detroit, you can go with Yorkshire being in the Midlands.
@ALP on female biochemistry.
Yes. Any man with passable appearance can see the whispy twinkles in breeding-age female eyes. It's clear as day and seemingly very hard for some women to control. It's also arbitrary and will collapse with a male's perceived failings or lack of interest or wandering attention given to other females.
Every woman I've observed pass through menopause loses this. They also sometimes have an extremely anti-partnering, anti-male phase. Avoidance and hostility is likely self-protective, as producing children becomes impossible and changes the social dynamic.
And then the whispy hormone motivations are gone. Still, logical rationalizations for behavior continue.
The problem is that the great literature of the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries almost always lost money, and chick lit kept the publishing houses afloat. Now they consider literature that men might consume as dead weight.
1. I have high hopes for Wuthering Heights. It’s directed by Emerald Fennell. She is amazing.
2. I loved the 1970 version with Timothy Dalton and Anna Calder-Marshall. Michel Legrand score was to die for. Reread the book and enjoyed it but liked the movie more.
3. Can Donald Trump please settle this war between men and women?
Can Donald Trump please settle this war between men and women?
Probably a job for Marco Rubio.
"They made the right choice."
Laurence Olivier was always an unappetizingly thick slice of ham, but one often failed to notice it, thanks to directors hip to his tricks.
Watch "Fire Over England". William Howard knew who his stars were, and they didn't include Olivier or Vivian Leigh. (Raymond Massey is truly menacing as the most matter-of-fact monarch ever seen.)
All women need to lead a good life today is to get an education to be able to support themselves and be brave to exit a relationship at the first sign of serious trouble (or at least the third or fourth sign). Once you find out your "love" is unable/unwilling to take responsibility for their actions, communicate with respect, deflects blame, you do the most necessary thing: leave. Happy Valentine's Day.
Having been up close though sadly not personal with Margo Robbie, all I can say is yowza.
I remember I was in a one act once, in college, where my character had to blurt out: “Is it not sufficient for your infernal selfishness, that while you are at peace I shall writhe in the torments of hell?” I forget the name of that play, but I remember that line.
"Can Donald Trump please settle this war between men and women?"
It keeps us out of each other's business long enough to allow the heart to grow fonder and give us some peace.
Feminism failed to see the benefit.
Well, stunned, if men did the same thing, we would have population collapse.
"Can Donald Trump please settle this war between men and women?"
Will men puhleeze stop looking at our behavior and drawing conclusions!
Really Jaq? That’s how you interpreted my comment?
she seems quite hawt, but kind of sleazy from her previous ouvre sans tarzan and once upon a time,
The Bronte sisters in family therapy
Interesting. I've never read Wuthering Heights or seen the movies, but I did see a short bio of Emily Brontë on Facebook yesterday, which piqued my interest a little bit. Now I see that there's a new movie adaptation coming out, which may be why the bio appeared on my Facebook feed in the first place, although there was no mention at all of a movie.
"Why do the good girls always want the bad boys?"
- No Doubt "Bathwater"
(No direct references to Margot Robbie's bathwater)
I just don't think that the war between men and women will be so easily quashed. Men are doing consciousness raising, and women are pretending that it isn't happening or is unjustified, just like men did in the seventies, when women started doing the same thing.
Men and women must do it, Jaq. Don’t waste years on relationships that are toxic and incompatible. Falling in love with the wrong person can happen to anyone, it’s impossible to prevent the risk. But being able to recognize that and exit at the earliest possible opportunity is golden.
Proof that women want bad boys is right in front of your nose:
Kak, Lefty, Gadfly, Howard etc. have each been married at least once.
Kak acknowledging crying with his spouse during "that particular scene" in An Affair to Remember does not detract from his badness.
Heck, I got a little emotional myself when Old Yeller was put down, and when Shane rode off into the sunset with a bullet in his shoulder.
Mildly diff though, I wanted to kill the guy who shot Shane as well as the wolf who bit Old Yeller.
Equal in rights and complementary in Nature. Go forth and reconcile.
"any man who is nice, employed, and showers daily can find a decent woman" yup.
Hear him, you incels
tim maguire said...
Anthony said...Many (most?) women will say publicly that they really just want someone "Who's smart and funny and really cares about me"
That's who they want to marry.
in the end it's 6 feet, 6 figures, and hot the majority of the time.
That's whose children they want their husband to raise.
That makes sense.
Not sure how you follow it up with this.
Really, though, any man who is nice, employed, and showers daily can find a decent woman. Most frustrated men are frustrated because they think they deserve a woman who is out of their league.
You can find a decent woman as long as that includes raising another man's kids and she can no longer form a pair bond with you.
For extra cookies she will compare you to all the other men she has slept with.
Achilles various screeds about women reflects a deeply cynical, resentful perspective on women and relationships, often associated with certain online subcultures like the "red pill" or incel communities.
The pathology here likely revolves around a mix of emotional wounds, defensive coping mechanisms, and ideological entrenchment that sabotages healthy relationships. It's not uncommon in men who've internalized "manosphere" narratives as a way to cope with modern dating frustrations, but it ultimately harms Achilles more than anyone else by perpetuating isolation. I would encourage therapy (like cognitive-behavioral approaches) could help unpack it—though Achilles would need to want change first.
OK, that does it. Achilles is my new favorite person. Recommended by experts in the AI community.
"For extra cookies she will compare you to all the other men she has slept with."
I hope so. I have that new car smell.
The 1939 version of Wuthering Heights is on TCM at 11:30 tonight.
Saturdayosity.
Ann, Did you invent this word?
This is a great episode for both men and women to watch/listen to (I always increase speed to 2X)
Men Today Episode #3 Male Betrayal and the Broken Sexual Market
https://youtu.be/x7PrNUg-2Oo?si=3wDlNEEMamM4Zh__
So I was 6"5" tall, on my way to make 6 figures--although that was a distant dream in the mid 1960s for folks in law school. But as my wife of 60 plus years reminds me, she worked to put me through law school, so now it's payback time baby ! Anyway she kept me--and we hit most of the other marks along the way.
Gaslighting is just one method of enforcing an orthodoxy that individuals question, like the idea that what is going on with young women now is somehow emotionally healthy for either sex. Another technique is name calling, names like "incel."
I can imagine that the little boy who said that the emperor had no clothes faced a lot of gaslighting and name-calling, he might even be told that he needed therapy, if the story were accurate.
I was, as a manager (pre retirement), a "cry on my shoulder" sort. I dont ask, really. Maybe I give off "dad" or parish priest vibes. I think HR discourages that these days. Whatever.
My project teams over the last @15 years had no currently married white/asian men. They were, if not single, divorced or going through a divorce. Indians were something else. I heard every sort of horrible divorce/breakup story that ever was.
Anecdotes arent data, of course, until you have enough anecdotes (a couple of hundred? this wasnt anything near as common in the 1980s-90s). I think I had enough anecdotes to come to conclusions.
If that is a representative sample of California middle class men in technical professions, there is no therapy feasible to "fix" them all. There is just something deeply wrong with US social relations.
Hoemath on YouTube will explain the nice guy / bad boy dilemma. (It's not the patriarchy)
@Sean: Thanks for the recommend. Didn’t find the nice guy/bad boy video so far but found a lot of other really good ones. Very good channel.
Kate Bush's interpretive dance, nearly 50 years ago.
Wuthering Heights was released as Kate's debut single in January 1978. It became a No.1 hit in the UK singles chart and remains Kate's biggest-selling single.
Wuthering Heights
Out on the wily, windy moors
We'd roll and fall in green
You had a temper like my jealousy
Too hot, too greedy
How could you leave me
When I needed to possess you?
I hated you, I loved you, too
Bad dreams in the night
They told me I was going to lose the fight
Leave behind my Wuthering, Wuthering
Wuthering Heights
Heathcliff, it's me, I'm Cathy
I've come home, I'm so cold
Let me in your window
Ooh, it gets dark, it gets lonely
On the other side from you
I pine a lot, I find the lot
Falls through without you
I'm coming back love, cruel Heathcliff
My one dream, my only master
Too long I roam in the night
I'm coming back to his side to put it right
I'm coming home to wuthering, wuthering
Wuthering Heights
Heathcliff, it's me, I'm Cathy
I've come home, I'm so cold
Let me in your window
Ooh, let me have it
Let me grab your soul away
Ooh, let me have it
Let me grab your soul away
You know it's me, Cathy
Heathcliff, it's me, I'm Cathy
I've come home, I'm so cold
Let me in your window
Is RHHardin okay?
Can Donald Trump please settle this war between men and women?
in the end it's 6 feet, 6 figures, and hot the majority of the time.
Answer to the question- No!, because in the end it's 6 feet, 6 figures, and hot the majority of the time.
Donald Trump is 6' 3", more then 6 figures, and, well, I'm not judge on a man's hotness. He has two beautiful ex-wives he remarkably gets along with and one hot looking current 3rd wife. He's the penultimate example of female sexual hypergamy. If our society allowed polygamy he'd likely have 3 wives not two ex-wives... Also likely a big part of the reason AWFLs hate him and will never be satisfied with him politically- a personal hatred since most of them aren't hot enough to snatch him and know it. Many examples abound in the real world that a women's hatred has no bounds. Nothing good can come from a man they hate no matter how objectively good it is. Deport an illegal who abuses and beats or rapes women? Done by Trump!!!??? It's evil and must be stopped!
At age 70 I've seen many a female over the years spurn an average looking but boring all around good guy to go for the exciting bad guy. And regret it later. By the time the regrets hit- the good guys are all taken.
Us good but boring guys if we luck out find an equally boring but good girl and hit it off. As did we in 1978, and been together ever since.
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.