So reads the "Statement by President Obama and Mrs. Obama," posted on X by Barack Obama.
For weeks now, people across the country have been rightly outraged by the spectacle of masked ICE recruits and other federal agents acting with impunity and engaging in tactics that seem designed to intimidate, harass, provoke and endanger the residents of a major American city. These unprecedented tactics—which even the former top lawyer of the Department of Homeland Security in the first Trump administration has characterized as embarrassing, lawless and cruel—have now resulted in the fatal shootings of two U.S. citizens. And yet rather than trying to impose some semblance of discipline and accountability over the agents they've deployed, the President and current administration officials seem eager to escalate the situation, while offering public explanations for the shootings of Mr. Pretti and Renee Good that aren't informed by any serious investigation—and that appear to be directly contradicted by video evidence.
This has to stop. I would hope that after this most recent tragedy, administration officials will reconsider their approach, and start finding ways to work constructively with Governor Walz and Mayor Frey as well as state and local police to avert more chaos and achieve legitimate law enforcement goals.
In the meantime, every American should support and draw inspiration from the wave of peaceful protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the country. They are a timely reminder that ultimately it's up to each of us as citizens to speak out against injustice, protect our basic freedoms, and hold our government accountable.
I think that's well composed, as far as it goes. But it offers nothing to the people who voted for a presidential candidate who won the election while offering to enforce immigration law, that is, the people voted for Trump in 2016 and 2024 and the people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.
There is order and chaos on both sides of the discord in Minnesota. Obama criticizes the Trump side for its chaos but gives no credit for the order it is working to achieve. The Trump opponents are praised for their "peaceful protests," with no mention of their less-than-peaceful protests and nothing about solving the problem of illegal immigration or even acknowledging that it has been a problem.
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219 comments:
1 – 200 of 219 Newer› Newest»He has it backwards.
It's MN corrupt one party mob-rule dems who are refusing to work with ICE.
MN Dems are thwarting Federal agents with bodies, whistles, and antifa thugs instead.
You can't hate The Most Racist President Ever™ enough.
Obama Lies. so very MSNBC.
Local state officials all over the nation are working with and cooperating with ICE. Because that is what real Democracy looks like.
MN dems are thugs.
MN are obstructing justice and using their broken rage fueled base to do it for them.
So much Dem-desperation to keep the fraud-chain going - and the illegals are integral to it all.
Obama speaks above his paygrade in contribution to the Walz 'n Karma-la cover-up of redistributive change schemes and illegal alien replacement of "burdens" Planned and sequestered in sanctuary states, and other wicked solutions and dysfunctional choices. That said, send the illegal aliens to Martha's Vineyard and similar Diverse, Equivocal, and Indifferent jurisdictions. The insurrection is organized and paid.
I'm trying to remember which state had a lieutenant governor leading an insurgency while Obama was president. There must have been one if the Lightbringer is convinced he knows better.
They should juxtapose these current statements with the 0bama and Pantsuited Pantload Clinton’s statements on the same subjects made in the not too distant past, which were diametrically opposed to this stance.
"...But Americans expect them to .... work with, rather than against, state and local officials to ensure public safety. That's not what we're seeing in Minnesota. In fact, we're seeing the opposite."...."
Yes, we are seeing the opposite, but not in the way he implies. I think he loved having the easy authority of high office, but has always had a deep contempt for those who are in authority at the civil level and tasked with the dirty work of implementation.
"and to work with, rather than against, state and local officials to ensure public safety."
I think that if ensuring public safety is the goal, the kind of work that will need to be done with local and state officials in Minnesota will be legal work. If that is what these two are suggesting, then this is the first sensible thing I've ever heard from either of them.
Illegals help dems stay in power.
So - bullshit flows.
President Drone Strike says what? Dear gosh, what a pathetic little man he is. Well, both of them actually…
File this under "How can we miss you if you don't go away"?
"This has to stop. I would hope that after this most recent tragedy, administration officials will reconsider their approach, and start finding ways to work constructively with Governor Walz and Mayor Frey as well as state and local police . . . ."
Tell that to Walz and Frey, you POS. Last I knew, they were in charge of the state and local police. As usual, though, Obama just fans the flames with all his pejorative language that begs the question.
Always was the Divider in Chief.
Did he send that message on Office of the Former President Elect engraved stationery? That would be cool.
These aren't protests. They are
well organized obstruction of law enforcement. The people organizing this don't give a rat's ass about "immigrants". They are anarchists.
Recall the HATE the collective hivemind Democratic-left had towards The National Guard who were brought in and tasked with cleaning up DC's ridiculously high crime? (and they were successful, too)
I do.
The obedient hivemind left seethed with RAGE over our National Guard doing that. That is who they are.
No zaphod no, next question
Quick observation on the incident.
There is talk that the gun Pretti carried went off when the agent removed it from him. This lead the other officer to believe that Pretti had the gun and was shooting.
In either case, it means that Pretti was carrying a gun with a chambered round.
Check with your concealed carry advocates and you will find that this is really stupid and against all unwritten rules of concealed carry. Accidents happen and they happen more often when a round is chambered. And even more with the Sig P320 AXG “Combat” which has a light trigger.
You will notice something about criticism from the left. It's never specific, never offers a workable solution, and always relies on emotional appeals over logic.
What would people suggest to prevent what happened so far in Minnesota while also permitting the Federal government do its lawful job? You know, like most of the rest of country has managed.
If Walz and Frey were working constructively with the federal government that holds proper jurisdiction then none of this would be happening. Obama, the original recipe DEI dullard, can’t even buy a clue.
Hes working with neville singham mentioned in the other thread he fanned the flames in 2020 in 2016 in 2014 and 2012
"Federal law enforcement and immigration agents have a tough job."
Made tougher by the Democrat, including MN governor and Minneapolis mayor, organized effort to follow and impede federal law enforcement officers engaged in their official duties. Made tougher still by the governor and mayor specifically prohibiting state and local law enforcement from acting to impede the Democrat organized effort to follow and impede the ICE officers performing their official duties.
Good and Pretti both followed ICE officers and then actively sought to interfere and impede the officers from doing their duties as directed by federal statutes. Both were violated federal law with simple assault punishable by 1 year in prison and Pretti then escalated to his interaction to an 8 year sentence felony when he put his hands on the ICE officer. He did this will armed.
Any physical altercation while carrying a firearm, except in innocent self defense is highly ill-advised since carrying the firearm, even if never unholstered raises the stakes to violent assault while armed with a deadly weapon.
Pretti then grappled with officers who trying to arrest him thus increasing his violent assault. Unfortunately, though his firearm was removed by one of the officers, there appears to have been an unintentional discharge which prompted the officers in the fight to discharge their firearms at the violently resisting suspect. Sadly, Prizzi's choice of firearm brand has a long history of unintentional discharges from being bumped.
Federal law enforcement and immigration agents have a tough job. Made tougher by the Democrat orchestrated, with malice of forethought, to cause emotionally compromised people to follow and impede federal law enforcement.
Cooperating with the stack of one-party Dems in MN means knuckling under to their anti-democratic demands.
Obama - a white evil radical leftist at his core.
’In the meantime, every American should support and draw inspiration from the wave of peaceful protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the country.’
As we strive for a fundamental transformation… lol
Big Zer0 doesn’t have to buy it. It will be bought for him.
We constantly hear from Democrats "we are a nation of laws" - "no one is above the law." But when it comes to enforcing federal immigration laws, all that bullshit goes right out the window. We all know blue state sanctuary cities need the illegal immigrant population to inflate there congressional seats and electoral votes. That in addition to sneaking them into the voting booths and bribing them with ridiculous welfare / handout incentives. Elon Musk is 100% correct in describing their motivation. None of this would be happening is Minneapolis would just follow the law and cooperate with the feds.
PDJT just sent Obama's main man on deportations to Minneapolis. Hopefully he will be accepted by both sides.
It will be interesting to hear what Obie has to say about this.
John Henry
I am surprised he chimed in. I thought as a Nobel Peace Prize recipient, Obama who be on the front lines calling for …. peace? You know calling for calm.
“would be”
The left told their broken base to fight ICE.
Obama - tell us how that is appropriate. Oh right - Mr. Fancy talk can only bullshit around it.
Obama is a community organizer. The Black community largely won't join in these protests. That's a problem for the Dems. They desperately need a Black person to be killed by ICE. Obama's job is to make that happen.
The invasion of illegals is against Black interests and Blacks understand that. It undermines their value in the labor force and it undermines their value as a constituency group in the Dem Party. The white working class isn't the only group being replaced.
Black Americans aren't going to the barricades for a bunch of foreigners who are basically their enemies. Look what immigration has done to Black communities in LA, for example. Blacks were completely pushed out of neighborhoods they'd lived in for decades and it was done violently by Hispanic gangs.
This shows where Obama's interests and loyalties lie and it's not with Black Americans
This is the same playbook as 2020. Exhaust Americans with protests that become violent. ONLY if Dems return to power and win the mid-terms will the violence stop, and they will try and tie up Trump with and another impeachment. If they could release another virus they would.
It works. I see people on FB buying all this bullshit, just like they did COVID. Nothing has really changed. Half of America is still populated by outraged, moral high ground sheep.
Obama (the divider in chief) and his wife (who was never proud of her country until Barack became president) should go back to Martha's Vineyard, or Hawaii, and leave the rest of us alone. I do not care one wit about what they have to say.
Like this crap:
"For weeks now, people across the country have been rightly outraged by the spectacle of masked ICE recruits and other federal agents acting with impunity and engaging in tactics that seem designed to intimidate, harass, provoke and endanger the residents of a major American city."
Spectacle? Recruits? Impunity? Intimidate, harass, provoke and endanger? Sure, now do the Activists....
"These unprecedented tactics — have now resulted in the fatal shootings of two U.S. citizens."
Not the result of the "tactics" but definitely the result of the tactics of the activists...
"the President and current administration officials seem eager to escalate the situation."
because they wont back down and cow to the mob rule of the activists? No do Walz and Frey on "escalation"
"I would hope ... administration officials will reconsider their approach, and start finding ways to work constructively with Governor Walz and Mayor Frey ... to avert more chaos and achieve legitimate law enforcement goals."
Again, always taking the side of the Libs. How can you "work with" Walz and Frey when they won't work with you, when they call you Nazi's and the Gestapo, and when they refuse to protect their own citizens (by letting ICE do its job at the prisons and jails rather than forcing them to do it in the neighborhoods). No tell us about all the cooperation Walz and Frey are giving....
"hold our government accountable."
Again, now do the government of Minnesota and the government of Minneapolis. Who's holding them accountable?
This is just like his Bloviating on the Harvard professor who claimed racism because the cops stopped him trying to break into his house. Obama's view (before we had any other information or facts) "the police acted stupidly".
Go F yourself Obama...
If it's so important to stop ICE in MN - where is Obama on the front lines? He should be there with his bullhorn.
If President Trump were the problem here, the same things would be happening across the country, not just in Minneapolis.
Gusty 11:34
You got it. 100%.
Obama is overtly supporting a coordinated state and local rebellion against a legal and proper function of the federal government; a federal government of which he once led its executive branch.
Sedition, per se.
Screw him. He detained an American citizen for 3 years. He has NO RIGHT to condemn what is happening now, when his administration killed 67 illegals. He belongs behind bars for spying on Trump before and after he got elected.
YouTube: The Minneapolis Protests and Democrats’ Nonprofit Problem
Results...
Video: It's déjà vu all over again.
"This is the same playbook as 2020. Exhaust Americans with protests that become violent."
Yep.
A couple weeks ago I suggested that PDJT just let Minneapolis cook until they got tired of their bullshit. I was roundly derided by people who thought the president should do something.
Tampon Timmy surrendered this weekend. He sent in the MN NG and State Police. Also sheriff and some other cops. The mission, that they seem to be carrying out, is to "Maintain peace" mostly by keeping the agitators and thugs away from ICE as ICE goes about their business.
If the thugs can't attack ICE, there is no drama for the news to report. If there is no coverage, the thugs will leave. If there is no invoking of the insurrection act, there is nothing to fight against.
As the children's nursery rhyme says "Leave them alone and theyll go home wagging their tails behind them."
I am pretty sure all are known now to law enforcement. They can be rounded up and charged, a few at a time on the QT.
Well played Mr President, well played.
and THAT is why I am such a fan of Mr and President Trump. Among many other things.
John Henry
Nicely fisked, Albert!!
"Work with"? That seems to be problem...
Jodate barry
Watching the Milwaukee local news, liberal white Milwaukee now has an inferiority complex. Wealthy white owned boutique businesses on the Upper East Side by UWM are handing out free whistles. Rich white Shorewood HS organized a walkout last week to protest ICE. I watched local PBS for about 20 minutes yesterday and almost puked. White libs in Milwaukee are stupid enough to want in on the Minneapolis action.
"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."
Barrack Hussein Obama
I wonder how many Signal Chats he is in?
PERFECT OBAMA.
He opens his hands. He starts off humane.
Then he sticks the knife into the backs and fronts of his political adversaries.
"Work constructively" with Walz and Frey. The only way that happens is by accepting whatever terms they are trying to dictate. They are fighting for their political and grifting lives.
Classic OBAMA triangulation. I am VERY GOOD. You are VERY GOOD TOO. So you should give up and accept our terms on this issue (ANY and EVERY ISSUE). And now thank you and good night.
56 deaths...not 67 as I first typed.
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
B. Obama
A true piece of shit human being.
He does know how to act cool whole fanning the flames for his side. Do not interfere with law enforcement should babe been the message. I suppose they know their party is over without the illegals so desperate times…
…I guess this is the better messaging they were talking about..
"I want you to argue with them and get in their faces."
B. Obama trying to get people shot by law enforcement
’The Trump opponents are praised for their "peaceful protests," with no mention of their less-than-peaceful protests and nothing about solving the problem of illegal immigration or even acknowledging that it has been a problem.’
That’s a fine observation, but you couldn’t have expected Obama to be decent or honest, could you?
Looks like knucklehead Walz called Trump.
Spitfire
@RealSpitfire
·
1h
What changed Walz’s mind?
Why would he cooperate NOW?
https://x.com/RealSpitfire/status/2015828081005441041?s=20
He had me at "Americans expect them to carry out their duties in a lawful, accountable way, and to work with, rather than against, state and local officials to ensure public safety."
But lost me completely with his big stupid "but" right afterward.
Kingsman had obamas number, he was depicted as collaborator with samuel jacksons genocidal magnate
I said Walz has surrendered?
Tampon Tim called president Trump. Not vice versa.
“It was a very good call, and we, actually, seemed to be on a similar wavelength,” Trump said. “I told Governor Walz that I would have Tom Homan call him, and that what we are looking for are any and all Criminals that they have in their possession.”
Trump continued, “He was happy that Tom Homan was going to Minnesota, and so am I!”
John Henry
What a filthy despicable traitor of a man. A disgrace in every way.
I don't think it's correct to say that it offers nothing to supporters of immigration enforcement. It expressly refers to "legitimate law enforcement goals" and to the "tough job" of those tasked with immigration enforcement. To be sure, it is not an express endorsement of deportation for criminals--probably Barack and Michelle don't wholly agree on that, and they wrote together.
But also, the text is not about whether deportation is right. It's about unprecedented and destructive federal tactics, lack of accountability, and failure to cooperate with state officials. Glad to know that Althouse thinks that on those issues it is well composed, whatever that means. How about "right," Professor Althouse.
All Quiet on the North Somalia Front
Obama and Autopen gave asylum to Central and South Americans migrants eeking to escape gangs which were in some way co-ordinated with states. For example, the Cartel of the Sun co-ordinated with Maduro. But then Autopen's border policy, which let in everyone who got to the border, admitted thousands and thousands of gang members who have resumed efforts to terrorize and steal from the Hispanics or from the other ethnic groups which gangs are accustomed to terrorize in their homeland.
So, millions and millions of migrants very recently specifically asked for asylum from these gangs and were granted it. And now, these Hispanics and Somalis and so on who, (let me repeat this for emphasis) who have asked the US for protection against gangs are in US cities and the gangs have followed them there and are abusing them again. The only difference is that the gangs are now paying off American lefty entities rather than foreign lefty entities. In this situation, the Federal government is still opposing the gangs. President Trump, through the work of Tom Homan and ICE and the Border Patrol, is deporting these gang members. They are protecting the people who asked for asylum from those gangs Support for Homan, ICE and the others should be automatic and come from both the right and the left.
Yet we see people like Alex Pretti, influenced by the American left and led into risking and losing his life to keep the Somali gangs in place in Minneapolis. He died to keep the 9 billion dollar steal going. He died for Sharia. He died for forcing women to veil. Those are social policies he opposed. What a bitter irony. But he knew no better because he believed the governor of his state and he believed the chief newspapers of his state and he believed in lefty news sources in general. He's like the hero of "All Quiet on the Western Front" and like that hero, those who led him into danger, are gathering to praise him, hoping his example will lead other gullibles into other deaths on behalf of those who really understand present-day Minnesota and really are collecting those suitcases of cash.( And they aren't all Somalians who come waltzing in to collect.)
The day of his death was a dark cold day and the day of his burial will be the same. Quiet snow will fall on the bland, cruel faces of the leftys who are thinking of cash and talking of courage and on their collection of gullibles and thugs and migrants still looking for asylum. Asylum? Well, the inmates ARE running the asylum in Minnesota. So there's that.
As an aside, I went on the sites at Fox News, Instapundit and Gateway Pundit yesterday. None of them had posted any videos of the Pretti shooting, or commentary on them. Only talking heads. Talk about putting your head in the sand!
work constructively with Governor Walz and Mayor Frey
How about they, like the other states in the union, honor federal detainers and hold criminals until federal officials arrive? Why do these clowns need special carve outs?
John henry, that would be great if it happened or happens. However I've been watching the Powerline guys and they haven't noticed Walz or Frey backing up ICE even to the extent of keeping the insurrectionists at a distance yet. The only thing I've seen in that vein is either Hennepin (Minneapolis) or Nicollet (St Paul) County Sheriff (I don't remember which) asked for NG or mutual assistance for his officers to maintain order but no word on whether it was granted. Where are you seeing reports of NG deployment or assistance to ICE in Minneapolis?
Posting this again because it's on point:
Clinton and Obama urge Americans to 'speak out' and take action after Minneapolis shootings
"Two Democratic former presidents on Sunday condemned the scenes in Minnesota after Alex Pretti was killed this weekend, framing the tragedy as a pivotal moment that calls Americans to "speak up" and take action.
Former President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama called Pretti’s death a “heartbreaking tragedy” in a statement.
“It should also be a wake-up call to every American, regardless of party, that many of our core values as a nation are increasingly under assault,” the Obamas wrote."
My take: incitement.
He fanned the flames that scorched a 100 cities
My understanding is that Walz has the National Guard distributing coffee and donuts to the anti-ICE protesters. I am not joking.
This is not just a lefty, libtard point. The WSJ has a good editorial saying basically what the Obamas are saying. Like the Obamas, their objection is not to deportation per se, but rather to the heartless way that Trump is proceeding and the dishonesty of his spokespeople. Bottom line: "Fifteen months later in Minneapolis, there isn’t much heart in Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The Saturday shooting of Alex Pretti, as he lay on the ground surrounded by ICE agents, is the worst incident to date in what is becoming a moral and political debacle for the Trump Presidency."
Protip: if you're a concealed carry permit holder..
bring your permit and ID if you bring your gun,
If you interact with police, TELL THEM *with your hands in the air* that you are carrying
EXPECT to have to show permit, ID, etc.
Also, and this is Kinda Important;
Don't interfer with police actions while you are carrying!
If you are Planning on being arrested (for fighting "the good fight")..
LEAVE YOUR GUN AT HOME!
State law enforcement have a tough job. But Americans expect them to carry out their duties in a lawful, accountable way, and to work with, rather than against, federal officials to ensure public safety. That's not what we're seeing in Minnesota. In fact, we're seeing the opposite."
fify!
"Like the Obamas, their objection is not to deportation per se, but rather to the heartless way that Trump is proceeding and the dishonesty of his spokespeople."
Horseshit. The O's object to any removal of the population propping up Dem numbers in the house. The WSJ doesn't want to lose all those lovely wage depressing masses. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump's tactics. They would and will oppose any deportations, the Dems with brown-shirt violence and terrorism, Wall Street with mealy-mouthed do-nothingism.
Thats what they are doing and they are blocking access to places like 2614 nicollet
Remember when he said islamic state was a 'jayvee team'
Stephen said...
This is not just a lefty, libtard point. The WSJ has a good editorial saying basically what the Obamas are saying.
I love it when libtards pretend other people that agree with them aren't libtards too.
Old and slow, The Minnesota National Guard are Minnesotans. When interviewed, a guardsman responded "we're here to help. It's a demonstration of safety and security." No evidence that Walz ordered it---looks like the guardsmen decided to do it on their own. And look! No violence at that site. Maybe Trump and ICE should take note.
OldmanRick: "In either case, it means that Pretti was carrying a gun with a chambered round. Check with your concealed carry advocates and you will find that this is really stupid and against all unwritten rules of concealed carry. "
Sorry to be That Gun Nerd, but no. Law enforcement certainly always have a round in the chamber. The split-second it takes you to chamber a round could be your last.
Leaving the chamber empty was a rule of thumb with the Colt M1911 because its safeties weren't, and with early revolvers because they had no real safeties either, and with single-actions you were going to rotate away the chamber under the hammer anyway.
But in the age of multiple redundant safeties, no one wants to carry a gun that's not ready to fire.
The SIG 320 and the early Glocks have reputations of their passive safeties not working - but so many of the alleged incidents turn out to be user-induced. CC, JSM
https://x.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/2015838517335883865
On Saturday, Noem insisted that the slain Alex Pretti was “brandishing” a gun with the intent of attacking federal officers
Senior Trump officials making claims such as these are committing the act of being an accomplice to the commission of these and future crimes. The statements around the initial Good homicide undoubtedly facilitated the Pretti homicide. The pattern is discernible.
One can see that the entire accountability mechanisms of the
federal government no longer work and are dysfunctional. This has been true since the administration of George W. Bush when Republican majorities in Congress turned oversight hearings into performative politics circuses to generate soundbites for cable TV and right-wing radio shouting heads.
Just when did Washington become the black hole at the center of our governance?
Stephen said...
Like the Obamas, their objection is not to deportation per se, but rather to the heartless way that Trump is proceeding and the dishonesty of his spokespeople.
LOL. The cope is real. When did you realize this wasn't a winning issue for you?
The most popular videos on the internet are libtard insurrectionists getting a mouthful of pepper spray.
Bottom line: "Fifteen months later in Minneapolis, there isn’t much heart in Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The Saturday shooting of Alex Pretti, as he lay on the ground surrounded by ICE agents, is the worst incident to date in what is becoming a moral and political debacle for the Trump Presidency."
Bottom Line: Every other state in the nation is complying and now everyone knows that Somali immigrants and Democrats in Minneapolis have been stealing billions of dollars from taxpayers so they refuse to cooperate with their corruption being ended.
Gilbar, The repeated point that he shouldn't have taken a gun with him (a point with which I agree) appears to have nothing to do with why he was shot. The available evidence does not show him holding or going for his weapon and clearly shows he was disarmed before he was shot. It also clearly shows ICE agents continuing to shoot well after his body was limp.
Walz is the clown who let Democrats steal billions from his treasury. The fall-out from that fiasco was so intense, he withdrew his bid for re-election. It is possibly that Walz himself is criminally to blame for some of this fraud. What makes me suspect him is that immediately after the fraud was publicized and the media scrutiny became intense, people who have had "Ice-Watch" training started getting into confrontations in the streets. Two of them have died. And now people are no longer talking about all the fraud in Minnesota. And Walz is trying to rejuvenate his career by calling the federal government Nazis.
The "Trump is a Nazi" routine had all but disappeared from public discourse. Most people accepted the election of 2024 as a rebuttal to this insane and ridiculous claim. And now Walz is trying to bring it back. He is absolutely appalling and I think federal officials might want to investigate state ties to "Ice Watch" and see how involved the Democrats are with this street violence. I hope I'm wrong, but I have cynical thoughts that the Democrats want this violence to happen in order to foster political change.
Trump has clearly realized that ICE is destroying his credibility and popularity. But it’s too late. The majority of Americans already see ICE for what it is: an unaccountable paramilitary force shooting American citizens with impunity.
The question is why it’s taken so long for Trump to recognize political reality. I think the answer is that people like Noem, Miller and Vance are too far down far-right nationalist rabbit holes (see also some of the comments on this thread). So they actually thought they could gaslight people into thinking ICE’s actions were legitimate.
Kakistocracy said...
Senior Trump officials making claims such as these are committing the act of being an accomplice to the commission of these and future crimes. The statements around the initial Good homicide undoubtedly facilitated the Pretti homicide. The pattern is discernible.
Your claims that these protests are peaceful is hilarious.
I can't wait for Ilhan Omar to be the face of the Democrat party. She is a multi-millionaire now and she is openly calling for armed insurrection.
As the corruption is made clear to the country you will watch these shitheads get more and more desperate.
The latest word on X is that the President and Walz have reached some sort of rapprochement. Tim Homan is going to Minneapolis to work out details. Apparently, MN has agreed to deliver the illegal lawbreakers ICE was looking for.
Lots of talk about MN corruption here. Guess what, it's completely possible to be against MN fraud and against Trumpian dishonesty and failure to cooperate with state officials at the same time. The lead prosecutors on the MN fraud case, who were also going to be the lead prosecutors on the Good shooting investigation, quit because after Renee Good was shot (a) state officials were cut out of the inquiry and (b) fed prosecutors were instructed to investigate Good's wife, rather than the shooting itself. Wake up people!
This doesn't solve the problem of rampant Medicaid fraud in the immigrant community there, and the possible involvement of state officials.
We shall see, but theres still the matter of the fraud factories
Why doesn't Obama care about the other 49 states?
You can say that again
"...against Trumpian dishonesty and failure to cooperate with state officials at the same time...."
Yes, if only those federal agents would 'cooperate with state officials', and get the f*ck out of Minnesota, amirite ?
Kakistocracy said...
On Saturday, Noem insisted that the slain Alex Pretti was “brandishing” a gun with the intent of attacking federal officers
My brother and some of my cousins have concealed carry permits. My brother worked on the NW Side of Milwaukee for a while and always kept a gun in his glove compartment. If you know the NW Side, you understand this is necessary.
All of them will tell you, if you get stopped by a cop for anything, speeding, rolling through a stop sign etc... THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS TELL THE COP YOU HAVE A GUN IN THE CAR AND A PERMIT. The last thing you do is get in a confrontation with a police officer while having a gun in your possession / in the car. You also have your carry permit with you, and your ID.
Mr. Pretti broke all these common sense rules. 1) he did not let the ICE officers know he was armed, 2) he engaged in conflict with law enforcement while armed, 3) he didn't have his carry permit with him, or 4) even his ID (which is encouraged by those funding the unrest).
Does Mr. Pretti deserve to be dead? No. Did Mr. Pretti help cause his own death? Yes. And so did all the Minnesota corrupt Democrats who encouraged him to confront law enforcement. Tim Walz put Mr. Pretti and Ms. Good on the front lines. He knew someone would eventually get killed, and the media outrage would follow. It's what he wanted.
Walz needs to be investigated, indicted and perp walked.
Where's Boelter?
Stephen said...
Gilbar, The repeated point that he shouldn't have taken a gun with him (a point with which I agree) appears to have nothing to do with why he was shot. The available evidence does not show him holding or going for his weapon and clearly shows he was disarmed before he was shot. It also clearly shows ICE agents continuing to shoot well after his body was limp.
These people have no idea what they are talking about.
The supreme court has ruled on this and they clearly said that Officers are held to the standard of reasonable action.
Douchey cunts like Stephen playing things in slow motion from multiple perspectives don't get to determine guilt or innocence.
The agent heard another agent PID a weapon.
The agent saw reload mags on a belt.
The agent saw the man reach for something on his belt.
The agent was surrounded by a hostile mob that was blowing whistles and yelling at him.
The insurrectionist that got shot was assaulting other people and resisting arrest and then reached for something at his belt.
Nobody gives a shit what an arm chair losers like Stephen thinks about his actions except for dishonest insurrectionists who are in open rebellion against the democratically elected administration that is carrying out the immigration enforcement we voted for.
Stephen, you claim to know a lot about guns and their uses, but when LEOs shoot someone to kill them, they usually empty their mags even if the perp is dead and LIMP.
“He died to keep the 9 billion dollar steal going. He died for Sharia. He died for forcing women to veil. Those are social policies he opposed.”
He died because he was a Good Samaritan, you know the story in the Bible? He died because Trump wanted retribution in MN. He died because the Trump administration hired the dregs of society to act as his personal special forces. He died because the DHS goons were untrained unprofessional killers.
Stop calling the dead female insurrectionist's lesbian live-in her "wife". They were not legally married. How about common-law bitch who got her queer friend killed?
Now it turns out that the person who ICE was there to detain in the first place does not have the criminal record that ICE claimed.
So they murdered a civilian all while failing to locate someone whose record they were lying about.
Par for the Trump course.
Have you folks seen this video of Pretti at a dying veteran's bedside? Watch it. Then tell me he deserved to die because he wanted to help a woman who was being pepper sprayed.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/shorts/icu-nurse-alex-pretti-honors-veteran-he-cared-for-256543813838
"Retribution" - Inag ?
- you are always so so so wrong about things.
You are an embarrassment.
this isn't about Trump.
This is about the corrupt democrats who rule MN - and use fraud and illegals to capture more power for themselves.
Do you deny the massive tax payer fraud in MN - Inag?
He didn't "help a woman who was being pepper sprayed". He interfered with LEOs carrying out their lawful duties.
Obama is, as always, despicable.
Obamas indifference to human misery he causes, as well as his crocodile tears at selected outrages is well known
Minnesota Law vs. Federal Claims
1. What Minnesota law actually says
• Minnesota is a shall‑issue state.
• A valid Permit to Carry allows both open and concealed carry.
• The statute governing this is MN Statute 624.714.
• The law does NOT contain any specific prohibition on carrying a firearm at a protest, rally, demonstration, or public gathering.
2. What federal officials have recently claimed
After the Minneapolis shooting of Alex Pretti, DHS and federal officials publicly stated:
• DHS claimed it is unlawful for protesters to carry a gun—even with a legal permit.
• A Border Patrol commander said the man killed was “armed” and that carrying at a protest was illegal.
• FBI Director Kash Patel said:
“You cannot bring a firearm…to any sort of protest…You don’t have that right.”
These statements caused major backlash from gun‑rights groups because they contradict Minnesota state law, which does not ban carry at protests.
3. Gun‑rights groups’ position
Gun‑rights organizations strongly pushed back, saying:
• Lawful gun owners can attend protests with a permitted firearm.
• Federal officials were “mischaracterizing” the law.
A. Legal reality (Minnesota state law)
✔ If you have a Minnesota Permit to Carry, you may legally carry (open or concealed) at a protest.
✔ There is no statute banning it.
✔ Thousands of people likely did carry during the 2020–2024 protests.
B. Enforcement reality (federal agencies)
⚠ Federal officials have recently taken the position that carrying at a protest may be treated as unlawful or as evidence of “malicious intent.”
⚠ This is not written in Minnesota law — it’s an interpretation federal agencies have used in high‑profile cases.
Because the law is clear, but federal enforcement statements are not.
• Minnesota law: Permitted carry is legal at protests.
• DHS/FBI statements: Carrying at a protest is unlawful or suspicious.
• Gun‑rights groups: Federal officials are wrong and overreaching.
The administration as usual gaslighting,making up their own rules, and the once crazed supporters of 2nd amendment now make up their own gun rules that benefit their lies. The victim is not the ICE people its the guy they shot 10 x unarmed with 6 thugs beating him lying all the way about the event you can see with your own eyes unless you are MAGA BLINDED. 1939 GERMANY will trigger the rise again(like the Colonists did) during King Georges REIGN) OF THE MINUTE MEN and the like if this murdering continues, YOU CAN ONLY PUSH AND LIE SO MUCH before the cork pops out of the bottle. Bovino SAYS ICE are the victims WTF..10x in the back unarmed with a 2nd amendment right to carry open or concealed with a lawful ermit,,you know the 2nd amendment the MAGAS constantly put up above all things.. SHOW your kids the video so they can see what America has turned into under MAGA
“My take: incitement.”
You might be right, there has clearly been plenty of incitement by the MN governor and the mayor of Minneapolis.
I prefer to see this as the pile of manure that precedes us finding the proverbial pony. Walz has found himself in checkmate. The game is up—the fraud, the grift, the conspiracy, and the insurrection—and now he’s ready to bargain. The pony has been just around the corner all along and now we’re about to see it in all its glory. This could be the beginning of the end for the Socialist Democratic Socialists of America. Again. Hopefully, for good.
“3) he didn't have his carry permit with him, or 4) even his ID (which is encouraged by those funding the unrest.”
How do we know this is even true? There have been lies from Trump, Gnome and Bovine about Alex Pretti.
Marcus Bressler, I know zero about guns, but I do know that ICE agents are not supposed to use deadly force unless reasonably necessary to prevent grave harm. Once he was clearly incapacitated, those shots were unjustified.
Ashley babbitt a much decorated veteran was murdered and you all cheered (she was unarmed by thd way)
Marcus Bressler, Nothing turns on whether she was Good's wife or girlfriend. My point was the federal prosecutors involved recognized that investigating the girlfriend rather than the shooting was shameful and resigned rather than do so. And these are the VERY SAME federal prosecutors who ran the fraud investigation that all of you are touting. Wake up!
Time is not on the side of Tim Walz and soon enough Tim Walz will have nothing and no one on his side. Obviously, Obama himself already has one foot out the door.
’…Trumpian dishonesty and failure to cooperate with state officials at the same time.’
And speaking of dishonesty, it’s the city and state officials who are not cooperating with the federal government. The latter being instantly supreme to the former.
Why was Pretti even there? oh right - Anti-ice propgandized leftists were obeying orders from on high to be there.
The obedient and broken were asked to "put their bodies on the line" by the white left Leninist Gov. . To aid corrupt dems and their grip on power. All those whistles and anti-ICE losers were obstructing justice. That he had a GUN.. is his own stupidity.
Stephen said...
..This is not just a lefty, libtard point. The WSJ has a good editorial saying basically what the Obamas are saying..
I take it, that you're not a WSJ reader then?
the WSJ hates (HATES!) Trump, more than ANY President.
Why? because Trump in eliminating their cheap labor.
HOW are they going to be able to pick the cotton (to sell to China) without their cheap labor
Ringleader Behind the Somali Fraud Scandal Says There's No Way that Tim Walz and Jihadi AG Keith Ellison Didn't Know She Was Stealing a Quarter Billion Dollars https://share.google/sLlBWwPw0V2WDg4A6
He did not die for being a Good Samaritan. He died because he joined ICE Watch, a domestic terror organization, and attempted to obstruct Federal LEOs in the middle of an operation. He was a traitor and a terrorist. He was literally asking for it with his actions.
All this blah blah blah about gun regulations and who fired when. HE WAS OBSTRUCTING THE LAW. You do that, bad things might happen to you.
You think deporting illegals is bad. Okay. You get a permit. You make a sign. You get your friends to march down Main Street with you. And in 4 years, you try to get your party to nominate someone who isn't a dim witted idiot with noxious policies. That's it. Tough shit. You lost the last round. Shut up and take your medicine. I've been doing it most of my life. That's Democracy.
’He died because the Trump administration hired the dregs of society to act as his personal special forces. He died because the DHS goons were untrained unprofessional killers.’
I’ll save this in case Igna goes on another deletion spree. lol
Shorter Obama: "Ice should be using drones."
’Have you folks seen this video of Pretti at a dying veteran's bedside? Watch it. Then tell me he deserved to die because he wanted to help a woman who was being pepper sprayed.’
Thanks for sharing your special feelings…
How many of you have actually watched the video? Here it is.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/videos-minneapolis-shooting-witnesses/
The point DINKY DAU 45 misses above regurgitating concealed/open carry law, is you don't get in a conflict with law enforcement while carrying a gun; permitted or not. And it doesn't matter if you're at the grocery store, or a protest. It just plain stupid, unless you want to risk death or prison.
Mr. Pretti had every right to carry a gun if he had a permit. But a line was crossed when he got into a conflict with law enforcement while carrying that gun. I feel bad for him. But minus that final action, he's alive.
’Walz has found himself in checkmate. The game is up—the fraud, the grift, the conspiracy, and the insurrection—and now he’s ready to bargain.’
It was inevitable and recognized by all rational people.
Meade, I applaud the federal fraud prosecutions in Minnesota, which began under the Biden administration, and Walz has properly paid a high political price for his inattention. And that is a separate issue from whether ICE tactics are effective and lawful, or whether agents had reason to kill Pretti. What do you think about the latter question?
This has nothing to do with the legality of him carrying a gun.
He fought with cops, after interfering with an arrest.
In the melee, his gun was seen by cops, and one said "GUN!".
As it was being wrestled from him, it discharged.
The cops assumed they were being shot at and returned fire.
Everybody had a right to be there armed.
Pretti fought with cops while armed. Illegal and dangerous.
What should the cops have done differently?
Gusty Winds, yes, carrying a gun may have been a causal factor in his death, just like his decision to help the lady who was pushed and pepper sprayed, but so was his getting shot. The legal and moral question is whether the officers who shot him had reason to fear for their lives, just because he was carrying a gun. Last year, Minneapolis cops took 900 guns off of suspects--with zero shootings. The evidence suggests he was on his knees, pinned to the ground and facing down, and disarmed before he was shot.
How many commentors here, permitted to carry and gun or not, would holster a gun at their side, and get in a physical confrontation with any form of law enforcement? Even though I think there are some really stupid people here, my guess is zero. Why? Because you know you'd end up either dead or in prison. Just like Mr. Pretti.
Would you tell your kid to do it? I'll bet no.
WTF are his defenders actually defending?
bagoh20, Watch the video. You are making up facts. His gun did not go off, either when it was in his waistband or after the officer took it. He was on his knees, facing the ground, surrounded by ice officers, and was shot in the back. How did he pose a threat of death or serious bodily injury?
Gusty Winds, I'm not defending Pretti, although in fact most of what got him in trouble was completely legal. I'm saying the shooting looks to be unjustified. What do you think about that question?
Stephen said...
How many of you have actually watched the video? Here it is.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/videos-minneapolis-shooting-witnesses/
I have watched it from multiple angles.
What is clear is that the ICE Agent heard the PID of a gun being carried by Pretti.
Pretti assaulted another person on the street.
Pretti violently resisted arrest.
Pretti reached for something at his belt.
The Agents were surrounded by a violent mob that was blowing whistles to disrupt communication, verbally assaulting the agents, and spitting on them.
The Supreme court has ruled that the agents actions are adjudicated from the point of view of the agent and that he made reasonable conclusions based on what he saw.
Any reasonable person will agree that if they were in the situation the officer was in he made a reasonable conclusion that Pretti was reaching for the gun that another ICE agent PID'd.
The courts will not care about the 20/20 arm chair bullshit from people like you.
Stephen said...
Gusty Winds, yes, carrying a gun may have been a causal factor in his death, just like his decision to help the lady who was pushed and pepper sprayed, but so was his getting shot.
1) Getting in a physical altercation with ICE while carrying a gun is the #1 reason Mr. Petti got himself shot.
2) Inserting himself, as encouraged my Tim Walz, to "help" someone resisting arrest, is the #2 reason he was shot.
Even if this woman resisting arrest was getting pepper sprayed, ask yourself, what were Mr. Pettis chances of winning the altercation and freeing her from law enforcement? ZERO.
In order of responsibility for Mr. Petti's death:
1) Mr. Petti
2) The woman resisting arrest
3) Tim Walz
4) ICE
If it was quiet and the agents could communicate then someone might have called out that he was disarmed.
But they couldn't hear anything because of a mob of shitweasels blowing whistles and yelling at the agents.
Everyone in that crowd should be arrested for manslaughter.
ttps://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/25/us/alex-pretti-minneapolis-shooting.html
“Within hours of the killing by federal agents on a Minneapolis street, Trump administration officials labeled Mr. Pretti a “would-be assassin” and asserted, with no evidence, that he had committed an act of “domestic terrorism.”
Through their own shock and grief, people who knew him struggled to rise above the lies and insults, they said, to describe who he was.
Rory Shefchek, a friend from high school who now lives in Madison, Wis., said that he hoped that Mr. Pretti would be remembered as the person he knew.
“He was a helpful, kind guy,” Mr. Shefchek said. “He was a confident, diligent and respectful person throughout his life. I hope that Alex’s story can catalyze change, as someone who believed in doing the right thing.”
Dr. Dimitri Drekonja, a colleague of Mr. Pretti’s at the VA hospital, was shaken when he heard that an immigration agent had killed a civilian in Minneapolis. It was awful, he said, even before he learned that the civilian was his friend.
“He was a happy guy,” Dr. Drekonja said. “When you asked him to do something, it would be done and it would be done right.”
Mr. Pretti, who was 37, was on the front lines of the Covid-19 pandemic, and was always eager to help whoever needed an extra hand. He was the kind of nurse patients remembered, colleagues said, and he was a beloved mentor to nurses stepping into the intimidating environment of the intensive care.
Mr. Pretti’s parents, Susan and Michael Pretti, in a statement reported by The Associated Press and CNN, called their son “a kindhearted soul who cared deeply for his family and friends and also the American veterans whom he cared for as an ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA hospital.””
Do any of our lefties recognize that Pretti was participating in a rebellion against the very government that employs him, and, in doing so, against the Constitution and the veterans who swore an oath to defend and uphold it?
The Obamas point, the WSJ's point, and even perhaps Althouse's point, is that people are right to be worried about incidents like the Pretti shooting and what they show about ICE's tactics and the Trump's administration's commitment to following the law in the law enforcement process. Yet all I am hearing is Pretti made a stupid mistake or Walz is corrupt. Yeesh.
Senior adminstration officials are on record slandering Pretti and saying things about the incident that are patently untrue. They are refusing to cooperate with state prosecutors, who also have jurisdiction to protect a Minnesota citizen killed on Minnesota streets, in violation of longstanding tradition. How about it folks--has the Trump administration acted properly here?
Suicidal empathy will kill us all.
Beasts of England, rhetoric does not make truth. Rebellion is rhetoric. He was a monitor and a loud protestor who got in trouble for moving to help a fellow protestor. If you made the argument in a court that he was a lawful combatant in a rebellion who could be shot, you'd be laughed at. The frame here is was the shooting justified by a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. Why do you resist it?
Absolutely typical Obama. Pretending to be the thoughtful peacemaker while pouring gasoline on the fire.
What an asshole.
’They are refusing to cooperate with state prosecutors, who also have jurisdiction to protect a Minnesota citizen killed on Minnesota streets, in violation of longstanding tradition.’
Do you have a cite for your claim that state prosecutors have jurisdiction over a federal officer? ‘Longstanding tradition’ is not law.
Thats not what his signal chat says
’If you made the argument in a court that he was a lawful combatant in a rebellion who could be shot, you'd be laughed at.’
I never made that argument, but nice strawman.
’The frame here is was the shooting justified by a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. Why do you resist it?’
I’m not resisting anything, so quit listening to the voices in your head. The shooting will be investigated and adjudicated, if necessary.
Gusty Winds, you keep avoiding the question of whether, on the video evidence, it was proper for the first officers to shoot to kill when the victim was on the ground on his knees, surrounded by ice officers, had not touched or even gone for his gun, which was in his back waistband, and had been disarmed. Would you at least agree that those apparent facts warrant a federal-state investigation?
Bob Boyd at 11:38--absolutely agree.
Stephen asked, How about it folks--has the Trump administration acted properly here?
Yes they have. They won an election where the majority of Americans wanted the border closed and supported the federal deportation of all the illegal immigrants Democrats let walk in to try and implement one party rule.
Tim Walz and Mr. Petti, did not want to allow federal law, supported and victorious in the last election, to be implemented.
Has the Minnesota State gov't acted properly here? NO. Local Minneapolis officials. NO. Those funding Ice Watch? NO.
Why is everybody pretending to be shocked people got killed? It was inevitable.
Beasts of England, sorry I misunderstood you about rebellion. What exactly was your point, if it was not rhetorical?
Beasts of England, the leading case is In re Neagle, a fascinating case on its facts. The basic principle is that feds have immunity from state prosecution for acts within the scope of their office if what they did was reasonably necessary to carry out those duties. Because there is concurrent jurisdiction, and because the immunity question often overlaps with the substantive liability question under both state and federal law, it has long been the practice to conduct the investigation jointly, because both state and federal officials have an interest in ensuring that the law is followed.
Stephen--Gateway Pundit was among the very first to publish both of the videos on their website. That's where I viewed them. They are still there--you have to go to the right side of the page--item #2.
Stephen. I'm not avoiding anything. I'm just stating and repeating the obvious. Mr. Petti is dead because he got in a physical altercation with law enforcement while carrying a gun. His choice. Tim Walz encouraged him to do so. Those actions took days and hours of contemplation. "Should I take my gun to the protest or not? Is this a good idea or not?" Who was he protecting himself from? If it was ICE, don't you think he would have shot first?
The rest went down in seconds. And as Achilles accurately stated above, "If it was quiet and the agents could communicate then someone might have called out that he was disarmed....But they couldn't hear anything because of a mob of shitweasels blowing whistles and yelling at the agents...Everyone in that crowd should be arrested for manslaughter."
Correction--Item #1 in "This week's top posts."
Boy Gusty Winds, I can grant every point you make and note that you are still not addressing the legality of the shooting or the adminstration's lies about it. Why not?
Gusty Winds, sorry I see you've now addressed the merits, even if only through Achilles, not the most reliable analyst on this blog. Did you yourself watch the video? Do you think an investigation is warranted? And what about all the false statements that the Trump administration has put out about the shooting? OK too?
Sorry I missed those Boatbuilder, my bad.
Statement by President Obama and Mrs. Obama
Barack must have written it, or had it written for him.
If Michelle had had any input, there would be more about her in it.
The officer who shot Ashley Babbit was cleared and promoted, so I assume that's standard procedure.
’…the leading case is In re Neagle, a fascinating case on its facts. The basic principle is that feds have immunity from state prosecution for acts within the scope of their office if what they did was reasonably necessary to carry out those duties.’
‘In re Neagle, 135 U.S. 1 (1890), is a United States Supreme Court decision holding that federal officers are immune from State prosecution when acting within the scope of their federal authority.’
Is it fascinating because it doesn’t support your claim?
"...whether, on the video evidence, it was proper for the first officers to shoot to kill when the victim was on the ground on his knees, surrounded by ice officers, had not touched or even gone for his gun, which was in his back waistband, and had been disarmed."
Quit being deliberately obtuse.
While the "video evidence" may reveal the action as it happened, what is relevant to whether the shooting was justified, or not, is what the OFFICER(S) saw and heard, what threat(s) THEY perceived, that moved them to pull the trigger.
Beasts of England, I am putting a question to you and others here, which is whether the ICE actions in the Pretti shooting and the Adminstration's actions in putting out a lot of falsehoods about it (ICE was apprehending a violent criminal, Pretti brandished a weapon, etc.) are OK, or whether they suggest a serious problem with the training that ICE agents' receive and the Adminstration's commitment to lawful enforcement of the law. You are resisting that question, as is your right. But I am pointing it out.
Beasts of England, the videos alone clearly raise an issue of whether what the ICE agent did was reasonably necessary to carry out his duties within the meaning of In re Neagle. Hence under Neagle there is a factual question for both the state and the feds to investigate. The reason that the Walz fraud prosecutor resigned was because when he was assigned to the Good case, his seniors told him that he could not cooperate with the state, in violation of longstanding tradition. What point of yours am I not answering?
Obama still has his touch. Lofty preachy pronouncements which sound good--but are essentially empty. He's selling cotton candy for the lefties. I have to admit--he's slick. But Slick Willie Clinton can deliver more substance in a minute than Obama can in an hour.
’You are resisting that question, as is your right. But I am pointing it out.’
That’s the first time you’ve asked me such a question, so, again, I’m not resisting anything. I’ll be nice and answer, but stop with the ridiculous ‘resisting’ bullshit.
I’ve already answered your question, re: ICE actions. You can find that upthread.
Whether the administration put out falsehoods or not, does not move the needle for me, e.g., Benghazi video. I have no idea if their training is adequate or not, although it doesn’t appear to be an issue outside of Minnesota. And they are committed to the lawful enforcement of the law, much more so than the various levels of government in Minnesota.
Hope that helps!!
ColoComment, I get that the actual perceptions of the officer matter legally, but only if the reaction is reasonable. If it turns out that the officer who fired the first shots couldn't see that the guy was on his knees looking at the ground, surrounded by ice officers, the case will look different. On the other hand, if he couldn't see what was going on, and fired just because someone said gun, that's different too. But I assume you would agree that there should be an investigation to determine which version of events is true?
Pretti interfered with LE, was wrestled to the ground by multiple LEOs, continued to resist as many as 5 LEOs in a noisy, threatening, and chaotic environment while armed with a gun notorious for unintended discharges, and was in the act of getting up from his knees when he got shot. And people blame LE? Beyond belief.
Stephen--why the sleight of hand re: "...a factual question for both the state and the feds to investigate?" The feds have primary jurisdiction. Keith Ellison does not. And if you know anything about Keith Ellison, you know why the law does not generally subject federal officers to prosecution by state authorities.
Do you have a citation for the reasons for Joe Thomas' resignation? I have seen only hearsay.
’…the videos alone clearly raise an issue of whether what the ICE agent did was reasonably necessary to carry out his duties within the meaning of In re Neagle.’
I’m not seeing the words ‘reasonably necessary’ in Neagle. You seem to have added those. Neagle references the ‘scope of their federal authority’, which includes the officer’s actions, in my opinion.
Nonetheless, a court or two will sort that out.
The video evidence is nowhere near as crystal clear as some are claiming, but it seems to me that Pretti was on the ground, struggling to get up, and did in fact get up immediately before the first shot. It is not clear to me whether he got up on his own or was lifted by other officers. If he got up on his own (a big "if") then there doesn't seem to be much question at all that the officers acted reasonably.
By the way: in a discussion the other night, Stephen accused me of being an ‘advocate’ and chastised me for not being an ‘independent thinker’. We should all give thanks that Stephen is not in any way an advocate, and that his status as an independent thinker is bona fide.
When is George Bush going to pile on? Where's Mitt Romney? You can be sure "The maverick" if he hadn't died in 2018 would all over the Sunday Talk shows talking about what an "Outrage" this ICE enforcement is. And how we needed to get back to the serious stuff, like more $$ and weapons for Ukraine.
Beasts of England, The issue in Neagle was whether a federal marshall had authority to shoot to kill in order to perform his duty to protect Justice Stephen Field, sitting as a Circuit Judge. The Court rested the question of immunity on the question of necessity. It wrote: "And if, in performing this duty, it became necessary for the protection of Judge Field, or of himself, to kill Terry, in a case where, like this, it was evidently a question of the choice of who should be killed, the assailant and violator of the law and disturber of the peace or the unoffending man who was in his power, there can be no question of the authority of the sheriff to have killed Terry." Following this logic, the question of immunity in the Pretti shooting will turn on whether the shooting was necessary to carry out the ICE officer's duties. We disagree on what the initial evidence shows, but I hope we can agree that it should be honestly and thoroughly investigated.
’Following this logic, the question of immunity in the Pretti shooting will turn on whether the shooting was necessary to carry out the ICE officer's duties. We disagree on what the initial evidence shows, but I hope we can agree that it should be honestly and thoroughly investigated.’
As I stated upthread: yes.
Hi Beasts, I also apologized for giving you offense with that remark, an apology that you seem to have forgotten. Of course I am an advocate, and as the posts above show, I am also willing to concede points, such as the legitimacy of immigration enforcement and the value of the Minnesota fraud investigation. I'm also willing to provide chapter and verse on my claims. I assume you hold yourself to the same standard.
Stephen, I've watched dozen of videos of it, slow, stop frame, faked, I've watched a lot.
It's unclear to me where the first shot came from, but there is a noticeable pause between the first shot and the rest. Even if you discard my contention of his gun going off accidentally, the rest is still sufficient. The cops can legally rely on another cop identifying a threat without seeing it themselves. The call of "gun" is enough to signal them to shoot. They are not required to be shot at first, or even to see the gun. Once one shoots, that establishes the deadly threat, which is why so many shots get fired in these encounters.
As someone asked in another thread: Who was he planning on shooting with that gun, extended magazine, and extra mags. Did he think he might have to shoot a fellow rioter or a dozen of them, maybe he might get mugged by a gang with cops everywhere? What threat was he expecting?
Hi Boatbuilder,
I hope that after reading my later post on Neagle you can see what I am getting at. Beasts doubted that there was any state jurisdiction. I pointed out that there was if the shooting was not reasonably necessary. Not sleight of hand, but a correction of the record.
On the question of the resignation of Joe Thompson and six other colleagues, we have nothing directly from any of them, or from the Justice Department. Interestingly, Tim Walz mourned the resignation and praised Thompson's outstanding public service in the fraud prosecutions.
Here's what AI sez:
Joe Thompson, a top federal fraud prosecutor and former Acting U.S. Attorney for Minnesota, resigned in January 2026 alongside five other prosecutors. The resignations stemmed from objections to Department of Justice (DOJ) pressure to investigate the widow of a woman killed by an ICE agent, rather than focusing on the agent, and the exclusion of local state law enforcement from the investigation.
Key details regarding the resignation and the dispute over cooperation with state authorities include:
Reasons for Resignation: Thompson and other prosecutors objected to the DOJ's focus on investigating Becca, the widow of Renee Good, who was fatally shot by an ICE agent in January 2026. They also objected to treating the investigation as an assault on a federal officer rather than a civil rights case.
Non-Cooperation with State: A major point of contention was the DOJ’s decision to exclude the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) from the investigation into the shooting by the ICE agent.
Impact on Investigations: The mass resignation is seen as a significant blow to ongoing investigations, including the massive $250 million Feeding Our Future case, which Thompson was leading.
Protest Against Federal Pressure: The resignations are characterized as a protest against the DOJ forcing a case against the partner of a shooting victim, a move that critics say was politically motivated.
The New York Times reported that Thompson and his colleagues, including Melinda Williams, Harry Jacobs, and Thomas Calhoun-Lopez, resigned on January 13, 2026, to protest the direction of the investigation.
bagoh20, I don't know enough about the law of deadly force to refute your claim, and don't have time to research it. Do you have any authority for it? In any trial or investigation, the views of law enforcement experts would be important as well--and I don't know what they would say. All I want is a dispassionate, thorough investigation that gives proper regard to the facts and the law, and isn't directed solely by people who have already demonstrated their willingness to lie about the matter.
The ICE agents don't have a choice about being there, being armed, or addressing threats and obstructions. They have a job to do, including staying alive. The options available that day that could prevent this were Pretti's.
I got my opinion based on what I read from Andrew Branca a lawyer specializing in self-defense law in the United States and a recognized expert in this field.
He says: "Officers were in a physical struggle with an armed suspect when a gun was perceived and the word “gun” was shouted. Under settled self-defense law, officers are entitled to rely on fellow officers’ reasonable perceptions. They do not have to personally confirm the threat.
Once a firearm appears during active resistance, the legal standard is simple: reasonable perception of imminent deadly force. That standard was met here. Freeze-frame activism doesn’t override real-time dynamics, and the law does not require officers to wait to be shot. This was a tragic—but lawful—use of force."
’Hi Beasts, I also apologized for giving you offense with that remark, an apology that you seem to have forgotten.’
It’s an apology that I did not see, but thank you, Stephen.
’I assume you hold yourself to the same standard.’
Citius, altius, fortius, indeed.
All I want is a dispassionate, thorough investigation that gives proper regard to the facts and the law, and isn't directed solely by people who have already demonstrated their willingness to lie about the matter.
Ha ha ha. Do you know who Keith Ellison is?
I appreciate the update on Joe Thomas. So nothing new except NYT hearsay. I would think that a principled prosecutor who wants to make a protest by resigning would provide a brief statement of his reasons. To someone other than the NYT.
As Beasts has noted, Neagle doesn't support your position. And you have added the word "reasonable" to "necessary" in the Neagle standard, where the court did not.
"Reasonable" is an extremely important word in the law. The fact that it isn't there means a great deal with regard to the required state of mind of the officer.
Stephen said, Boy Gusty Winds, I can grant every point you make and note that you are still not addressing the legality of the shooting or the adminstration's lies about it. Why not?
I've watched the video. It's chaos. The videos are just political Rorschach tests. I see a guy and a crowd who caused the shooting. You want to see an ICE agent doing something illegal. In the Good video, she hit the officer with her car. Liberals don't see that.
Problem is when it comes to getting in a physical altercation with law enforcement while you are carrying a gun, the tie goes to the cops.
We all know that. That's why none of us would put ourselves in the same situation as Mr. Petti. There's no way you win that battle. It's death or prison.
bagoh20, I had a look at the Branca analysis. It was thoughtful and persuasive to me. I did not find the language you quoted, however. In fact, it was clear that in describing the scenario you mention Branca was simply speculating about what "might" have happened. He was stating that the shooting could have been justified, though still "awful," if the shooting officers reasonably perceived that Pretti posed a threat of death or serious bodily harm to someone. Leaving the facts to be investigated. Did I read him wrong?
Boatbuilder, Actually adding the word reasonable helps the officers, because even if it wasn't strictly necessary, they could still escape liability if they reasonable thought it was.
Gusty Winds, I appreciate your analysis, but it completely ignores the applicable law.
Boatbuilder, Keith Ellison is no more biased on these issues that Pam Bondi is. Wouldn't it be good to let them cancel each other out, or better still, let career professionals like Thompson carry the case in both departments, as one would normally expect to happen?
As for Thompson not giving a reason for retiring, there is a perfectly good argument that he was ethically required not to disclose the privileged communications he received about the conduct of the investigation.
I assume you would agree that given the importance of, and his belief in, the fraud investigation and prosecutions, and his long term work at the Department, it must have been something bad that caused him to retire.
Stephen is apparently determined to dominate the comments thread and is doing a pretty good job of it. Don’t feed the troll.
Whatever happened to, "Elections have consequences?"
Dear Mrs X, I am determined to try to show people on this blog what a one sided, and often erroneous, view of the facts and law they are taking. My method is to argue on the merits, using facts and law, and trying to be honest and respectful and to avoid the kind of epithets that are too common here. If that's trolling, so be it.
The only alternative to the cops reasonably believing they were exposed to a deadly threat is that each man who shot chose to shoot that man on purpose knowing there was no threat. That seams like a very unlikely scenario. If they were that murderous, there would be a lot more dead, and they would mysteriously not be on video. You have to consider the reasonableness of the assumptions required for either conclusion.
I'm fine with Stephen or anybody else who makes a case respectfully, I'm also fine with those who don't.
One of the reasons I'm here, and why I comment too much is that it's an exercise for me. I have to try to write with decent English, make well reasoned arguments, look up facts to verify them, address challenges to them, and learn from others. I get all that from this blog, and I am deeply grateful to Althouse and her excellent commenters for giving me the opportunity to stave of the mental decline I have richly deserved from a life of not-so-clean living.
Bagoh20, You have left out the possibility of an unreasonable belief--an untrained and inexperienced agent panicking and shooting (or exercising very poor judgment) when there was no warrant for doing so. Would you agree that's something that could have happened here? Based on my limited understanding of the facts and law. that seems like the most probable scenario here.
bagoh20, thanks for that defense of thoughtful commenting. I appreciate it.
Stephen said...
Gusty Winds, I appreciate your analysis, but it completely ignores the applicable law.
A quick search and it is easy to find applicable laws you, Tim Walz, Mr. Petti, and Ms. Good choose to ignore. To your credit, I don't believe you would risk breaking them, because its a really stupid thing to do.
1) Federal law covers assaults on federal officers under 18 U.S.C. § 111, which prohibits forcibly assaulting, resisting, opposing, impeding, intimidating, or interfering with a federal officer during their official duties.
2) If the confrontation involves a firearm (even if just carried and not fired), it often qualifies as an aggravated or enhanced offense.
3) Under federal law (18 U.S.C. § 111(b)), if the assault involves a deadly or dangerous weapon (which includes a firearm) or inflicts bodily injury, penalties jump dramatically—up to 20 years in federal prison (compared to 1 year or less for simple assault/resistance without such factors).
Many states have similar enhancements: for example, "assault on an officer with a deadly weapon," "resisting arrest with a deadly weapon," or "aggravated battery on a law enforcement officer while armed." These are typically felonies carrying years (or decades) in prison, plus potential additional weapons-related charges (e.g., felon in possession if applicable, or brandishing/use of firearm in a crime).
Christopher B said...
Where are you seeing reports of NG deployment or assistance to ICE in Minneapolis?
Not assistance, per se in the sense of actively helping to round up illegals. If that came across, apologies. What I am seeing, that seems close to assistance, NG and the various police agencies are forming blockades to keep the demonstrators away from the ICE folks as they go about their job. They seem to be keeping them as much as a block away.
NG, state police and others.
I hang out on BlueSky (it's almost as much fun as I used to have with Ritmo) a lot. A number of people were posting video clips showing how those dastardly police, who are supposed to be on the thug's side are preventing them from harassing ICE. It's an outrage, I tells ya! Interfering with free speech!
BSers, as I call them, are really upset. Walz just got the separation going Sunday afternoon, I think. So let's see what happens.
John Henry
Gusty Winds, I have no quarrel with the law you are stating, but I don't see how it changes the analysis. The officer needs to show his shooting to kill was reasonably necessary to prevent death or serious bodily harm. Of course if Pretti had been using the firearm to assault somebody that would carry the burden. But the evidence suggests he wasn't doing that. Instead, it shows that he never touched the gun and was disarmed before any shots were fired.
if anyone is into Alynskying, I thought of a good prank to play on these fools.
3D print a bunch of black plastic pieces the size of a quarter. Maybe put a penny in for weight. Emboss on one side "If found, return to PO Box 23745A, McLean VA 22101" (The zip is legit, the box is made up. Search returns nonsense)
CIA is in Langley which is part of McLean.
Then go to the demos, find gullible looking people that do not appear to be part of the coordinated crowd and slip the tokens into their pockets of backpacks.
Following day, start a rumor that CIA is planting tracking devices on peaceful protestors.
Pop popcorn and enjoy.
Welcome to the Devil's workshop.
John Henry
"The officer needs to show his shooting to kill was reasonably necessary to prevent death or serious bodily harm."
Although a jury might throw the law out the window, that's not the legal standard. The officer only has to show that he reasonably believed that, regardless of if it's true or not. He's not expected to have god-like knowledge or to sacrifice his life to make sure.
That's why they justifiably shoot someone with a fake gun.
Stephen said...
And look! No violence at that site. Maybe Trump and ICE should take note.
No shit, Stephen.
The NG is keeping the protesters from getting close to ICE. ICE was never going out and attacking the protesters, it's always been the protesters getting in ICEs face, throwing things at them, biting off fingers, ramming cars and so on.
Keep them apart so they can't interfere and of course it will be peaceful.
John Henry
An unreasonable belief or not following his training does get cops convicted for deaths and lots of more minor issues. From what I've seen, not following training is especially dangerous for them in court.
Bagoh20, sorry for the error. I should of course have said that the officer has to reasonably believe the shooting is necessary to prevent...etc. Doesn't change the point that there is substantial evidence pointing to unreasonableness. It also is true that shooting without a reasonable belief (such as negligently or recklessly) is also unlawful, right? To find liability you don't have to show murder; manslaughter will do. I know that the thumb is usually on the scale for the officer, but have I got the law right?
"not following training is especially dangerous for them in court."
As following training can be, at times. (See: Derek Chauvin)
so, just to recap:
according to our lefties:
The Police SHOULD HAVE KNOWN
that Pretti boy WASN'T going to shoot anyone with the gun he had
that Goodie Good WASN'T going to kill anyone with the car she had
(according to our lefties), the Rules of Engagement REQUIRE
Federal Officers to to *DIE*.. *BEFORE* taking ANY ACTION.
IF the Federal Officer is Killed THEN That Officer may take action
BUT!
UNTIL he(or she) HAS been murdered, he MUST ASSUME that the person trying to run him over meant no offense..
that the person with the gun (and 2 mags) was just trying to impress.
Do i have that right? i wouldn't want to be putting words into people's mouths
And Obama is running his mouth, why?
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