Both The Washington Post and The New York Times say that a "person" has been shot. Is there some question whether this was a woman or a man? If not, it's oddly dehumanizing.
From WaPo: "Federal agents shot another person in Minnesota on Saturday morning, Gov. Tim Walz said in a social media post. Police did not immediately respond to requests for comment about the incident, and Walz provided few details. It was not immediately clear which federal agency was involved, and the condition of the apparent victim was unknown."
Checking Walz's X post, I see it doesn't even say "person," just "another horrific shooting" (along with the demand, "The President must end this operation. Pull the thousands of violent, untrained officers out of Minnesota. Now").
Perhaps WaPo wrote "person" so it could use the word "another." It could not say "shot another man."
From the NYT: "Federal law enforcement agents shot and killed a person in Minneapolis on Saturday morning, according to local and federal officials with knowledge of the episode.... The circumstances of the shooting were not immediately clear, but video circulating on social media and verified by The New York Times appears to show it from a distance. In the footage, several people, apparently federal agents, are seen holding a person down on the sidewalk while at least one officer strikes the person with an object." An object. That's vague. There's such a dearth of information that the NYT sees fit to quote a woman who "heard a sudden burst of whistles and yelling" and was told to "back up and stay away." She said "I immediately assumed the worst. I figured someone was shot pretty bad.” Shot? But she heard whistles and yelling. It doesn't say she heard a shot.
Posts
319 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 319 of 319Eva,
OTOH, a lot of citizens probably don't want to allow a violent, untrained government (if that is what they believe is happening) to nullify liberty. Presumably, you would just roll over and give up. Are you French?
"Wouldn’t they tell their supporters to stage quiet peaceful protests only."
Not if they're okay with the occasional death of one of those supporters. It keeps people from talking about all the fraud that's occurred on their watch, you know.
’…wouldn’t they tell their supporters - the people they care about - to use extreme caution when dealing with ICE officers?’
You’re analyzing this as a decent and rationale person, not as a prog. All they hear is Orange Man Bad and then nothing else matters. They had at least a hundred whackos protesting at the airport last night because it’s ‘letting’ ICE agents arrive there. Curiouser and curiouser.
I finally stopped reading when Inga commented. That's usually a good sign that the rest of the thread will be hijacked by it and its supporters and nothing logical or even honest will follow.
"Seems to me that changing the law politically is a lot easier than rioting and getting people killed, but that’s just me"
Changing the law is politically a loser, but getting people killed is easy for the leaders. People actually volunteer for it.
"You must be referring to the government folks in these videos. Right? Hence you want to make the government deportation folks operate more like they did for the deporter in chief when he got rid of more than three million w/o the government looking like it's going to war."
That was because the right accepted the election of Obama, even if they didn't like it. They also accepted the law being upheld even if it was by a President they didn't like.
Logic is easy.
Check out the coats;
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/23/gregory-bovino-coat-german-media
"If the video of this doesn't show the guy brandishing a gun"
If! He said "If"! Now the Great Pumpkin will never come!
"That was because the right accepted the election of Obama, even if they didn't like it. They also accepted the law being upheld even if it was by a President they didn't like.
Logic is easy."
You must be joking. DJT going after the blue parts of America = BHO going after the red parts of America. According to your rational and completely logic based brain.
Got it.
So the address 2614 nicollett is a known hive of fraud
Quite possibly but it happened at 9 am on a Saturday. The building is rarely open and it certainly wasn’t then. It’s not residential. I would lean coincidence.
’…don't want to allow a violent, untrained government (if that is what they believe is happening) to nullify liberty.’
That makes perfect sense if you believe the enforcement of duly enacted laws is the nullification of liberty.
"Check out the coats."
Typical deep thinking.
Inga said...
“Seems like the government would be better off coming up with a reasonable and true justification for this killing instead of telling lies that can be disproven by video.”
Indeed. With so many protestors and just people in the street with phones, there will be ample evidence.
Brilliant. What if the ice guy was wrong? Man still dead. Family suffering, potentially ice guy arrested and his family suffering.
And you guys have nothing to say about antagonizing a bunch of ICE guys who are anticipating trouble every minute.
Mayor and Gov and you guys blame the shooter when it is you encouraging and hoping for violence and death so you can pretend to be the good guys.
WITF was this guy carrying? Doesn't seem like the type that would actually shoot anybody. And 2 clips? Stupid.
You are disgusting.
Beasts: “ Well, dang - I already did a shot”
Was it Jaegermeistersinger? CC, JSM
Democrats support criminals.
Are Democrats asserting Capitol punishment? He wasn't aborted in a prone position. He was attacking the officer(s). He was armed. He was resisting arrest. He was defending redistributive change schemes, abortionists, rape-rapists, pedophiles, and other affirmative acts of American civil liberties unburdened.
At some point the rest of us will have had enough of your shit, and you'll wish you would've headed the warnings.
But by then, it'll be too late and I won't give a damn.
And you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.
" Let’s wait for that evidence to surface"
Noem is on live TV calling him a domestic terrorist and the instigator, as have other federal officials.
Its too late. Maybe ask your party leaders to slow their roll next time.
... he wasn't a "burden" summarily aborted a la Planned Parenthood, Capitol punishment et al. He wasn't causing inconvenience to Democratic elite. So, there's that.
Bag,
Since you brought him up: here is a video where BHO lets all of the R's in the house ask him anything they want. Live, no teleprompter.
If you start at nineteen minutes you will skip BHO bloviating (word of the day?) before he starts taking questions from the Rs.
It is seems certifiably insane to equate BHO and DJT re how each of them treated/treats their opposing party at all levels of the US government. IMHO.
This is the terrible BHO and an example of his oppression of Rs that you seem to recall as being equal to DJT re Ds today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1-jasxb7NY
Always fun to watch this sort of thing at Althouse.
Yes, there was a gun. Looked about the same size as my G43X, but steel, not plastic. Similar red dot sights. Wood grips. Two extra magazines.
open and concealed carry legal in Minnesota with a PCP permit. That's not brandishing, that IS legal carry . 2nd amendment rights concealed behind your back in your waste band LEGAL.
’Was it Jaegermeistersinger?’
I was fresh out! I’ll go to the store after Snowmageddon and restock. lol
Doesn’t matter how many permits he had for the gun, if he reached for it. Or if he made movements consistent with reaching for it. Even flailing towards its general area in spasmodic reaction to being maced and taken to the ground. Or instinctive grasping for it when he felt the agent taking it away. The offender’s actual intent doesn’t matter - just the agent’s reasonable apprehension of what was going to happen.
While his ears are getting blasted out by the mass whistles. CC, JSM
AOC on CNN is demonstrating pure projection. What a good soldier she is…
best president ever said...
Democrats support criminals.
Good one. Trump, a convicted criminal, would never pardon a convicted criminals. And if he did, Republicans and MAGA would jump on him like ugly on an ape.
‘“Noem is on live TV calling him a domestic terrorist and the instigator, as have other federal officials”.
And she lies and says he was brandishing his weapon. Anyone here see him brandishing a gun?
Le D,
That has nothing to do with this.
Both Obama and Trump were going after alien criminals, not red or blue - illegal aliens.
The right approves of that regardless of who is President. The left only cares about who is President, and is willing to get people killed over it because they lost an election. It's that simple. If Harris was doing this, do you really think they would be resisting it? Do you think the right would be. Let go of the TDS. It's voluntary.
You people bitched about wearing masks and now are ones making whistle possession a jailable offense.
Being forced to wear a mask because of a bad flu isn't the same as obstructing federal law enforcement officials, you stupid fuck.
open and concealed carry legal in Minnesota with a PCP permit. That's not brandishing, that IS legal carry . 2nd amendment rights concealed behind your back in your waste band LEGAL.
Definitely legal. Not legal to threaten a federal officer with it if that’s what happened.
The Dems are “doing whatever it takes” to keep the fraud discoveries/investigations on page two
Tim Walz - the illegal mobster bully.
Tim Walz: "I want everyone to get in the faces of ICE agents and resist them."
Leftist: *gets into the faces of ICE agents with a gun... gets shot*
Tim Walz: "This is Donald Trump's fault! Get ICE out of here now."
Monsieur le Douanier (if that is your real name):
I'm sure that you are a superior intellect, and as such would frown on so-called protesters rioting and assaulting federal law enforcement officers. There are innumerable examples of people like today's recently deceased who have never understood the concept of FAFO. They have lived lives where they are free to go out and LARP as revolutionaries, rioting in the streets with no consequences, due to the pusillanimous nature of their local authorities. Then, sadly, they happen upon other authorities who are NOT pusillanimous, and then they "Find Out." Allowing people to break the law with impunity in smaller matters leads to tragic miscalculations about whom they are dealing with when they graduate to larger issues, like assaulting federal officers.
Carry on, Monsieur.
John Mosby wrote: "Doesn’t matter how many permits he had for the gun, if he reached for it."
Videos Show Moments in Which Agents Killed a Man in Minneapolis ~ NYT
"Federal authorities said the slain man, Alex Pretti, had approached agents with a gun. But videos show Mr. Pretti was holding his phone, not a weapon, when they pulled him to the ground."
The official policy of the U.S. government appears to allow for the use of lethal force against individuals it deems necessary, often justified through misleading statements, while disregarding the rights of those who oppose it. Many Trump supporters like John Mosby seem to endorse these actions without question. Treat them accordingly.
As events unfold, pay attention to two key aspects:
(1) how officials may present information that contradicts evident facts, insisting on their narrative, and
(2) how the media might hesitate or fail to challenge these claims effectively, potentially enabling misinformation.
Observe whether the administration declines to investigate this incident, similar to past cases like the death of Renee Good. This approach suggests a stance where official actions are presumed justified by default.
As fellow Americans—neighbors, colleagues, family, and friends—defend or even approve of these events, recognize that such views could extend to similar situations involving you or others. Approach these relationships with caution and discernment.
Tim Walz should be arrested for instigating insurrection.
"The right approves of that regardless of who is President. The left only cares about who is President, and is willing to get people killed over it because they lost an election. It's that simple."
Okay, it's that simple. The Ds are inherently bad and the Rs are inherently good.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
“open and concealed carry legal in Minnesota with a PCP permit. That's not brandishing, that IS legal carry . 2nd amendment rights concealed behind your back in your waste band LEGAL.“
But you don’t try to draw your gun when LEOs are trying to arrest or detain you. Either leave it holstered or in your pocket (and tell them where it is), or carefully and slowly put it down on the ground.
It’s isn’t a question of brandishing, but rather the right of LEOs to make arrests, and the right to use deadly force for self defense and defense of others.
I don't even think he should need a permit, and neither does The Constitution, but don't resist arrest, especialy with a gun on you. The cops could at any time think you are going for it, which is a reasonable assumption when you're fighting them. Your hands go up, you do what they say. In fact, even if the 6 guys are not cops, but are all holding guns, better to do what they say, or you are getting shot, probably a lot.
Saying Bovino was wearing a Nazi coat is an obvious lie. The first real opera I saw in a theater was Verdi's 'Macbeth' at the City Opera in 2001. The costume designers were going for a Wehrmacht general staff aesthetic, so all the men - everyone except Lady Macbeth - were wearing ankle-length light gray trench coats with loose belts, just like the Nazi generals in every World War II movie. Bovino wore a knee-length dark brownish- or greenish-gray trench coat with no belt. Not the same thing at all.
By the way, since the opera house was roughly cubical, with seats on three sides, and I had very little money, I was sitting on the highest level, five levels up, on the left side very near the stage, looking almost straight down. That was downright embarrassing, since Lady Macbeth was quite buxom and wearing a very low-cut red dress. I couldn't look at her without looking right down her cleavage: I almost felt if I stared hard enough I might be able to tell what color panties she was wearing.
"and the right to use deadly force for self defense and defense of others."
I agree. Hence, using deadly force for not-self-defense and not-defense of others seems like a bad idea for the government re killing citizens.
And let's look at what happened in this particular situation instead of saying Walz is responsible for this particular killing. Am I asking too much in this DJT/Meadehouse worshiper thread?
White leftist females are making tik tok and other on-line videos showcasing their bullets and desire to follow Walz-orders - to shoot and kill ICE agents.
Police get to shoot people if it is warranted.
This is not new.
Now all of a sudden leftists are referring to federal agents as "the government" LOL - you are all such frauds.
Yes they are very lame
They want to ban law abiding citizens from defending themselves but give criminals the right of way
Yes they are very lame
They want to ban law abiding citizens from defending themselves but give criminals the right of way
Bagoh 5:11
Exactly.
If federal ICE agents/ or police think they are going to get shot - they are not supposed to let it happen, and are legally within their rights to use deadly force.
3 killings in Minneapolis this year, two of them by ICE.
“OTOH, a lot of citizens probably don't want to allow a violent, untrained government (if that is what they believe is happening) to nullify liberty. Presumably, you would just roll over and give up. Are you French?”
I would never advise or support people I cared about to face violent men with whistles and bullhorns.
If Walz’s goal is to create martyrs then he should be on the front lines.
If his goal is to stop a dictator from nullifying liberty then he should look to George Washington.
If his goal is to impede fraud investigations, then he should keep on keeping on.
Unionized pedo-school marms demand that illegal child sex predators be on the loose.
This looks like just another hands up don’t shoot scenario when truth emerged after testimony. People were willing to believe in St. Renee’s goodness until the bodycam footage showed impact. Let’s wait for the instant reply from all angles here. It doesn’t matter if he brandished a cell phone first if he had a gun tucked away and made even the slightest gesture to touch it. Let’s at least see the decedent’s own cell phone footage if it exists.But go ahead riot, Minneapolis!
Yeah - I too want Walz out there in the cold with a whistle and a sidearm - taking on those evil ICE agents.
3 killings in Minneapolis this year, two of them by ICE.
Yes, Whittier had the most gun violence of any Mpls neighborhood the last two years. It has been very very quiet since Metro Surge. I don’t like it because it’s safe for the wrong reason (because it’s been abandoned).
Ashli Babbitt wasn't carrying a gun.
Ashli Babbitt didn't struggle with the police.
Ashli Babbitt was shot dead.
Democrats? "Ho-hum".
Back on the first page of comments at 2:52pm, Mark paraphrased "All those whistle blowers should be locked up" as "making whistle possession a jailable offense". An obvious and contemptible lie. When dozens or hundreds of people are blowing whistles simultaneously, loud enough to damage the eardrums of their targets, they are committing assault. No one has ever suggested that possessing a whistle, or even blowing one, if it's not right in someone's ear, would be a jailable offense. Why does Mark lie?
Also, I've asked before, without any reply: is this Mark the same Mark who left tens of thousands of comments at the much-missed blog Betsy's Page? They seem to share a modus operandi as well as a name.
john mosby said...
"While [the ICE agent's] ears are getting blasted out by the mass whistles. CC, JSM"
Besides the Minneapolis protestors, you know who else put whistles on their planes while dive bombing..."
It turns out that I was, just now, the third person to look at Alan from W's profile. The profile started this month.
So, we (i.e. folks like me that have been on this blog for nearly two decades) have a new sock puppet (of some sort of flavor), or we have a legit, fresh-freshed new commenter that is in the right (or unfortunate) place at the right time.
I'd like to know what inspired Alan from W to start commenting here? FTR, I started here (almost twenty years ago) because a lot of other blogs banned me, so I ended up here. Of course I've also been banned here dozens of times, but eventually Althouse always unbans me.
Trump is getting exactly what he wants, chaos.
BTW, why focus ICE on Minnesota, with say 200,000 illegals, instead of Texas and Florida with millions?
Oh yea, the big fraud, makes sense except there is no connection between the fraud being investigated and criminals aliens murdering grandma.
Even is the dead guy was unarmed, if you physically assault an officer, especially an armed officer, you are putting him at risk of life, and deadly force can be warranted.
"Inga said...
3 killings in Minneapolis this year, two of them by ICE."
8 more and you'll have to take off a shoe.
I just did a search for ‘gestapo overcoat’ using Bing and the entire first page for news and articles are of Bovino. Totally organic, I’m sure.
It also has a few results for images and none of them are similar to his - at all. Gestapo coats were black leather with oversized lapels, a belt, and black buttons.
"3 killings in Minneapolis this year, two of them by ICE."
Sounds like a Minneapolis problem.
"Sounds like a Minneapolis problem."
On the plus side, it's giving the Somalis time to squirrel their fraud proceeds out of the country while the fake news people are looking the other way.
BTW, why focus ICE on Minnesota, with say 200,000 illegals, instead of Texas and Florida with millions?
Because Texas and Florida are cooperating with ICE.
Are you really that stupid?
“Can't tell if it's a gun, but it fills his hand.”
Well, you can bet it’s not his johnson, the dickless, deballed SOB.
Beasts:
Yes, I should have mentioned. SS and Gestapo wore black coats, Wehrmacht (regular army) light gray ones. Bovino's doesn't even split the difference with dark gray since it has some (admittedly rather dull) color to it - dark greenish or brownish gray.
Monsieur Rousseau le Douanier, I am not a sock. I am a longtime lurker. I joined today because I thought I might be able to answer some questions about what is apparently the most important city in the US. I was born in the neighborhood, grew up in the neighborhood, and after years in other towns and even other continents, returned here a couple of decades ago.
le dou dou stinkin’ up the place.
Deadster had a 9mm semi-auto pistol with a couple of magazines. He was looking for trouble and ready to do some damage. The dumbass.
In other news from Minneapolis, one of the peaceful protesters seems to have bitten off the finger of an ICE member (link). Could be worse: at least he (or she?!) didn't swallow it.
Le Douche concerned about "sock puppets." LOL
Have you notice few if any Somali's are at these protests? I know every one says they have a low IQ, but they are sure smarter than the majority white, leftist idiots rioting and dying for them. Says a lot about how smart the average lib in Minnesota is...
Have you notice few if any Somali's are at these protests?
Somalis, Latinos, Hmong are keeping a low profile in town, not just at the protests.
Jim: per Google AI:
As of January 2026, Operation Tidal Wave—a Florida-led initiative partnering with federal agencies—has resulted in over 10,000 arrests related to immigration enforcement since beginning in April 2025. Data indicates that between May 21 and October 15, 2025, there were 14,306 total ICE-related arrests in Florida.
Key Details on Florida ICE Arrests (Mid-2025 to Early 2026):
Total Arrests: Over 10,000 arrests were reported under the state-federal partnership initiative.
Period Data: For the period between May 21 and October 15, 2025, total arrests in Florida reached 14,306.
Earlier 2025 Figures: From January 20 to May 20, 2025, there were 5,560 arrests in jails and other lock-ups.
Context: These arrests are part of enhanced immigration enforcement, which includes agriculture checkpoints to combat illegal immigration.
ICE arrests in Texas surged to 176 per day in the first six months of the new administration, totaling 36,240 arrests between May 21 and Oct. 15, 2025, according to Prison Policy Initiative and KSAT. This marks a significant increase from previous, lower averages.
Regional Focus: In the Houston area alone, over 1,300 arrests were reported in June 2025, and more than 200 arrests of individuals with criminal records related to minors occurred in a six-month period.
Total Trends: According to UCLA Center for Neighborhood Knowledge and this source, Texas saw a 134% increase in arrests compared to the same period in 2024, representing roughly 1 in 4 of all nationwide ICE arrests.
State Operation: The Texas Tribune reported that Operation Lone Star added thousands more state-level arrests, collaborating with federal authorities.
Note: Data from 2025/2026 based on the search results provided.
"Trump is getting exactly what he wants, chaos."
So your position is that Walz telling people to interfere with ICE is giving Trump exactly what he wants? Maybe you should talk to Walz about that.
None of this stuff is happening in Texas or Florida, you know.
Has anyone watched the video? I’m seeing reports that he was not brandishing his weapon but he did have a license to carry one. Here’s what I just read from a video analysis:
“Video footage shows Mr. Pretti stepping between a woman and an agent who is pepper spraying her. Other agents then pepper spray Mr. Pretti, who is holding a phone in one hand and nothing in the other. His concealed weapon is found only after he is restrained on the sidewalk, the videos show, and taken from him before the agents opened fire.”
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2026/01/another-shooting-in-minneapolis.php
In this video you can see the gun the protestor was carrying somewhere on his person lying on the ground by his feet after he was shot. 32-36 seconds
This what that gun looked like. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2026/01/24/17/105796331-15494665-The_Department_of_Homeland_Security_DHS_told_the_Daily_Mail_that-a-2_1769276060612.jpg
Texas actually was the first place the Trump Administration started. Plenty of ICE deportations in Texas, but it is curbside service here. ICE pulls up to the jailhouse, and Texas law enforcement hands over the foreign criminals. 34,000 were deported through that process from January to October of last year. For awhile, it was 176 a day.
Walz could make that policy in Minnesota today. He chooses not to do it.
”Where’s the gun?!” ICE agent rolling body around looking for a gun. It was already taken by the ICE agent in the gray coat and baseball cap. They shot an unarmed man, it aapears,
"Iman said...
Deadster had a 9mm semi-auto pistol with a couple of magazines. He was looking for trouble and ready to do some damage. The dumbass."
Curious about his backstory. To me, seems like the wannabe type who would never pull the trigger. 2 mags, if true, is concerning, although he may have been showing off for his pals, or trying to impress the women.
Inga said...
”Where’s the gun?!” ICE agent rolling body around looking for a gun. It was already taken by the ICE agent in the gray coat and baseball cap. They shot an unarmed man, it aapears,
1/24/26, 6:39 PM
Yeah, I mentioned that at 1:06.
@ Matt, as thoughtful and fact-filled as your comment was, facts don't appear to move the MAGA commentariat on Althouse. Ostriches with heads buried deep in denial—each and every one.
jim said...
Trump is getting exactly what he wants, chaos.
BTW, why focus ICE on Minnesota, with say 200,000 illegals, instead of Texas and Florida with millions?
Oh yea, the big fraud, makes sense except there is no connection between the fraud being investigated and criminals aliens murdering grandma.
The retard makes the point better than any of us could.
ICE isn't out in the streets in Texas and Florida because the local police detain illegals and hand them over at the county jail.
Walz is releasing murderers and child rapists into society so that ICE has to go hunt them down.
You leftist pieces of shit are traitors defending foreign soldiers that are raping and murdering US citizens. Trump is just letting Walz piss off the rest of the country at this point.
3 killings in Minneapolis this year, two of them by ICE.
Sounds like remarkable restraint to me. We should commend the ICE agents.
Again -
Tim Walz: "I want everyone to get in the faces of ICE agents and resist them."
Leftist: *gets into the faces of ICE agents with a gun... gets shot*
Tim Walz: "This is Donald Trump's fault! Get ICE out of here now."
This was murder. Pretti did not initiate the confrontation. He didn’t strike them. He didn’t brandish his gun. They tackled him, beat him, disarmed him, and shot him.
This video is from Rob Doar President: MN Gun Owners Law Center
https://x.com/robdoar/status/2015150225317388508?s=20
BTW -- Rob Doar: Public Defense, Crim/ConLaw Nerd | Law & Policy Communicator | Volunteer EMT/SAR Cmdr. | Pres.: MN Gun Owners Law Center | General Counsel: https://x.com/mnguncaucus
This is the good and decent man they immediatly labeled as a “domestic terrorist”
“This was murder. Pretti did not initiate the confrontation. He didn’t strike them. He didn’t brandish his gun. They tackled him, beat him, disarmed him, and shot him.”
Unlikely. Murder requires certain scienter. 1st Degree Murder went off the table when the officers drew at the observation of “gun”, because that charge requires the specific intent of premeditation. And 2nd Degree isn’t applicable because of the LEO exceptions.
Maybe it was Manslaughter. It very much depends on how and when his gun left his pocket or holster. If the guy never drew the weapon, and it was still in his pocket or holster, then fine. Or if in his fight with LEOs, it just fell out, again fine maybe. But if hand ever touched the gun, after his being singled out by LEOs, before he started fighting them, the more generous LEO variant of self defense controls, and it was a righteous shoot.
So, please don’t pejoratively call it “murder”, in a blog run by a former Law Professor, without a bit more work.
i guess, here's a Protip:
IF you are a law abiding Concealed Carry Firearm owner..
AND you are carrying your firearm..
do NOT resist arrest
do NOT struggle with the police
DO think about WHY you would get in an altercation with Law Enforcement.
Amazing how Administration lies in face of videos. Looks like murder. Best defense could be first shot accidental but no excuse for so many swarming guy with cell phone camera with guns drawn. Administration made big mistake by refusing investigation of prior shooting when videos made it look like execution. Will have to have investigation here.
“ This was murder. Pretti did not initiate the confrontation. He didn’t strike them. He didn’t brandish his gun. They tackled him, beat him, disarmed him, and shot him.”
The only relevant facts there are whether the LEOs could see that he was disarmed, before shooting him. Initiating the confrontation is irrelevant here. Criminals rarely initiate confrontations with LEOs. They gave him apparently legal orders to submit, and by fighting them, he committed one or more violent crimes. At that point, it’s irrelevant whether the original orders were to submit were legal. He wasn’t submitting peacefully.
I didn't watch the video, but I do know when the high temperature for the day is -6 degrees, you lose feeling in your fingers.
Inga said...
”Where’s the gun?!” ICE agent rolling body around looking for a gun. It was already taken by the ICE agent in the gray coat and baseball cap. They shot an unarmed man, it aapears,
If true that would also be evidence the agents believed he had a gun at the time. If he did have a gun just moments prior, and was physically resisting that sounds like a basis for reasonable belief he had a gun and was trying to use it at the time he was shot.
All law enforcement needs to have functioning body cams. There are actually a lot of videos out there that show that the minute the cops finds out the citizen has a legal gun, the cops will get really weird and start to treat them as an immediate threat when there was absolutely no threat indicated. Like all large groups of people in life, there are good people and bad people. The minute that you actually believe that there are no bad people on "your side," you've crossed over in "brainwashed" territory. I tend to be supportive of most cops, but I know that there some very bad cops out there and they need to be punished as severely as possible when they break the law.
The Dems are VERY happy for these fools to put their bodies between ICE and the criminals they're trying to deport.
The prime utility of those fools is that of a martyr - and they'll try hard to make sure you're the news of the day.
IF you were convinced that ICE was a bunch of murderous thugs, your obvious and sensible action would be to go "I am NOT going to place my unperforated body between the folks they're deporting (who wouldn't spit on me if I were on fire, but would gladly steal my wallet) and ICE, because I WANT to stay in good health.
But they think it's all play-acting, and they're in the role of the good guys and that nothing bad can happen to them because in the movies running in their heads the good guys always win.
They don't question whether or not they're really the good guys.
People in MN have learned ICE are thugs. Now learning may be murderous. Maybe that's the plan.
"ICE isn't out in the streets in Texas and Florida because the local police detain illegals and hand them over at the county jail."
Which is contrary to Minnesota. US is suing Minnesota and other states to compel cooperation, but so far has had a little success. So, they unleash untrained "police" on unfortunate cities, chaos ensues.
Who benefits?
"They gave him apparently legal orders to submit"
Does it matter if they did not give him legal orders to submit? Seems like the government can't just order citizens to submit, presumably they need a legal reason to order a citizen to submit.
IDK.
Better your head buried in the sand than all of you, Bich. :)
"He wasn’t submitting peacefully."
So it is okay for the government to kill a citizen that is not a threat (e.g. they were disarmed, as here) if they don't submit to an illegal order to submit?
If so, maybe we need to think about dialing back the power of the government re killing citizens. Doesn't seem like a good idea to let the government kill, even when they have no legal reason to take away our liberty/order us to submit.
Counselor Hayden: as I understand -- brandishing is a legal term that means to display all or part of a firearm, or otherwise make its presence known to another person to intimidate them, regardless of whether it's directly visible to that person. Given the video, that's not what Alex Pretti was doing when he was shot and killed.
Here is an example of correct usage of "brandishing."
The DHS is brandishing lies.
As shown in multiple videos: Pretti's behavior before being tackled -- he’s not threatening, he’s not brandishing, he’s filming with his phone.
There are different interpretations of what happened here. But I think we all agree that the killed guy was pistol whipped by one of the government guys.
Am I right, is that what it means to be pistol whipped?
Followup question, is pistol whipping citizens a technique that is taught to all government law enforcement folks? Or was this dude improvising here?
"So the address 2614 nicollett is a known hive of fraud".
Addresses on Nicollett have been turning up quite frequently in the news of late. One may surmise that the shit-people operate there.
Washington Post, NYTimes, Walsh and all democrats cannot be trusted. I’ll wait for X to give me the real story.
It all brings to mind Democrat Governor George Wallace bravely standing in front of the doors of the college and telling his folk to fight the unjust federal government as it moved in to make Alabama allow blacks into their schools. Wallace will be played today by MN Governor Timmy Walz.
Helping him, of course, is Democrat Bull Connor, played today by Mpls Mayor Jacob Fry.
Both Fry and Walz have now adopted a view of States' Rights not seen since the 1860's.
Let's watch now as Wallace's forces claim that brutal treatment by the USA forces have kept them from running their own states in their own way.
Alex Pretti was clearly visible holding a phone when agents first approached him, before pulling him to the ground and shooting him.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2026/01/24/video/24vi-minn-shooting/24vi-minn-shooting-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
“Does it matter if they did not give him legal orders to submit? Seems like the government can't just order citizens to submit, presumably they need a legal reason to order a citizen to submit.”
Let me clarify. Orders by LEOs are legal or illegal. It’s a sliding scale, depending on the circumstances. Maybe it’s just to talk. Maybe they expect to arrest you. The time to challenge is not when they are trying to get something done, like when Renee Good et ux appear to have gotten their vehicle stuck in a bad place for ICE. Because they knew that they had been playing this blocking game earlier, they were legally entitled to order her out of her vehicle, and once ordered out, was not legally entitled to just drive away. I suspect they were going to just drive her vehicle to a better (for them) Location. At t.hat point, after these women had been ordered to do something, they can’t legally just drive away.
The time to contest whether or not the orders of LEO’s were legitimate is in court. What I meant by a legal order to submit was that the LEO ordered some civilian to do do something, so they have to do that thing.
“ Counselor Hayden: as I understand -- brandishing is a legal term that means to display all or part of a firearm, or otherwise make its presence known to another person to intimidate them, regardless of whether it's directly visible to that person. Given the video, that's not what Alex Pretti was doing when he was shot and killed.”
“Brandish” may have a technical/legal definition, but whatever that is, was likely not what was being said. For example, back 20 years or so ago, the Denver police used to define Brandish as being able to see the butt of a gun, while if you couldn’t see it, it was Concealed, so you needed a concealed carry permit, that their sheriff only issued to friends of the mayor. Frustration with that ultimately led to state preemption of local gun laws and Shall Issue CCWs.
When I thought about it, I ultimately came to the conclusion that one of the CBP officers had seen a gun, possibly, maybe likely, in the hands of the civilian.
Normally, in most states, Brandishing a gun isn’t that much of a concern for LEOs, esp if what they meant was just an unhidden gun. But it becomes a concern if they use the term to mean that the gun had been drawn. It’s a question of definition and context. And that the use of the term is probably inconsistent between LEOs and civilians.
What seems to have happened was that the LEOs were trying to subdue the descendant physically. He was thus Resisting Arrest, which is a federal crime. He was resisting, and more and more LEOs were jumping in/on him, getting involved. Then I think you hear the word “Gun”, and the situation goes sideways, resulting in his being shot and killed.
The single shouted word “Gun” in a situation like this is cop-talk meaning that the situation has just gone sideways, with a gun suddenly entering a fight, on the side of the person that they are having a confrontation with. And their response is pretty universal, in LEOs around the country - they immediately shift from physically trying to subdue someone, to pulling their own guns, and pointing them at that person. This response is automatic, because it is trained. Because the confrontation has just gone from physical to deadly, justifying the use of deadly force. And maybe the fastest way to get ventilated by police is for one of them to yell Gun. And that means that there is a possibility for officer liability if they are completely wrong, and yelled “Gun”, when not having seen one in the hands of the subject of their attention. You can be sure that every body cam, every camera, in the vicinity will be checked, trying to see what happened to trigger the Gun call.
Which brings us back to the word “Brandish”. Does it mean that the gun was merely holstered, and the officers saw it? Or he had it in his hands, drawn, when the confrontation started? Or maybe the descendent had just drawn the gun? That’s what I suspect, it was being kinda official speak for a drawn weapon under control of the civilian involved. But it doesn’t add much to the conversation, because it means different things to different people.
DINKY DAU 45 said...
"open and concealed carry legal in Minnesota with a PCP permit. That's not brandishing, that IS legal carry . 2nd amendment rights concealed behind your back in your waste band LEGAL."
Not when you're assaulting a police officer or are actively ignoring his orders. Then you become a threat.
Are all of you really this stupid?
They were trying to subdue someone they deliberately gave a face full of tear gas because he had the temerity to film them and to help someone who fell on ice stand up.
That's the 'illegal' action they shot him 10 times for doing.
Resisting arrest is bullshit.
Addresses on Nicollett have been turning up quite frequently in the news of late.
It's "Nicollet." It's a long street running through several distinct neighborhoods including Whittier where it is nicknamed "Eat Street". That's where I live and where Pretti was shot. North of Franklin (which is 20th St) is called Stevens Square, where the famous Quality Learing Center was. I take long walks every day, usually in the morning, regardless of weather. I saw this building every day for years; I never ever saw the QLC (or Albi's Kitchen for that matter) open and I never thought it was a day care either--it's a box on a parking lot, I had assumed it was an private evening adult education place maybe run by a non-profit. Nothing about it felt like it was for kids and there weren't any kids around, ever. Rayito de Sol, a real day care/school, is just down the street and has a fence, playground equipment, bright colors. I can't speak to any other place, but QLC was fishy.
@Alan from Whittier
Thank you for your comments.
What do the noncombatants in your neighborhood think about all this? If you would care to answer. Thanks either way.
It's a really bad idea to intentionally concealed carry around cops. Is it legal? Yes. Is it smart? No. Why bring a gun at all? What was the point? You gonna shoot at cops? Presumably not. You worried about getting mugged with all the cops around? Why bring your damn SIG at all? I understand concealed carry and the right to self defense the courts have carved out. But, be intelligent about it. I'm fairly sure the facts of the case are going to look bad for the cops involved, but that doesn't do the dead guy any good. There are many things people can do that are deeply stupid, and this is one of them. I'll say what I've been saying for years: people who go looking for trouble find it!
What do the noncombatants in your neighborhood think about all this? If you would care to answer. Thanks either way.
I don’t think you’re going to find anyone pro-ICE in public (true even before yesterday). It’s clear much of the economy in S Mpls is dependent on immigrants legal and illegal. Almost all the business are suffering not just due to labor but also because customers aren’t coming either. I mentioned before that POCs are simply not in public as they were before last fall or so, which is one reason crime is significantly down–there just aren’t many public gatherings in Uptown or Powerderhorn or Whittier or Lake St; crime is down for the wrong reasons. That is however an intensification of the trend of the last few years anyway. Downtown has been a disaster for a long time except for the N Loop/Warehouse District area. Uptown just suffered through a year of construction. There are many more examples of this.
I want to be clear: I have little doubt there are paid organizers, but I think the protests ARE organic. It’s just that there are relatively few native Minneapolitans left. There are tons of people here who came here as students, or to leave their smaller towns all over the Midwest, or the suburbs, or as immigrants, etc.
As someone who came to Minnesota over 30 years ago, everything Alan is saying rings true, including the reasons why people come here. I don't live in the neighborhoods where all this is happening, but I do live within a mile of Minneapolis.
Thank you to the both of you.
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