BESSENT: It might not be next year. Might not be in 4 years. But down the road this fight for the Arctic is real. We would keep our NATO guarantees. And if there were an attack on Greenland from Russia, from some other area, we would get dragged in. So better now, peace through strength, make it part of the United States.... The Europeans project weakness. The U.S. projects strength.... What we know is that Greenland can only be defended if it is part of the U.S.... We have seen the Europeans are unable to push back against Russia.... And what President Trump is trying to do is prevent a taking or the Russian/Chinese action in Greenland in the future. So why not be strategic? Why always live in the moment?
WELKER: Okay. Let's talk about being strategic. The United States has a base in Greenland.... Denmark has given the United States a green light to beef up its security as much as is needed in Greenland. Why not take that route? Why is it necessary to take over and annex all of Greenland, something that 85% of people living in Greenland oppose?
BESSENT: Well, again — and let's look back. Denmark has a terrible history with Greenlanders. There was forced sterilizations up until the '80s or the '90s. So all of a sudden now that the U.S. has expressed an interest there is this new interest. And again, the United States needs to be in control to prevent a war. And we do not want to get dragged into someone else's war.... The European leaders will come around, and they will understand that they need to be under the U.S. security umbrella. What would happen in Ukraine if the U.S. pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse. The U.S. — Kristen, to be clear, since 1980 the U.S. has spent — U.S. military spending versus NATO military spending. We have spent 22 trillion more dollars than the Europeans have. We are peace through strength. And the Europeans now are only trying to play catch-up. And that is only through President Trump. President Trump believes in NATO but he does not believe in the American people being dragged in.... Of course, we are going to remain a part of NATO. But what President Trump does not want is for a war to start and the U.S. get dragged in. Again, we are not going to outsource our Western Hemispheric security to others.
WELKER: ... The President, as you well know, has justified his authority to impose previous tariffs without going to Congress by declaring national emergencies. It's an issue before the Supreme Court right now. We're all awaiting the high court's decision. What is the national emergency that justifies these new slate of tariffs?
BESSENT: The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency. It is a strategic decision by the President. This is a geopolitical decision. And he's able to use the economic might of the U.S. to avoid a hot war. So why wouldn't — why wouldn't we do that? Same thing, that what if we had a national emergency coming with these gigantic trade balances that we had with the rest of the world? I've been in financial markets for 30, 45 years. Much better to be strategic, avoid the emergency.... You are avoiding creating the emergency, Kristen. What if during the Great Financial Crisis someone had raised their hand in 2005, 2006 and said stop with subprime mortgages? But no one did. President Trump is raising his hand. And that is preventing the emergency.
WELKER: Do you think the Supreme Court will agree with that rationale, Mr. Secretary?
BESSENT: I believe that it's very unlikely that the Supreme Court will overrule a President's signature economic policy. They did not overrule Obamacare. I believe that the Supreme Court does not want to create chaos. We have set, as you said earlier, we have set these trade deals and it is very good for the United States. We are balancing the — our trade deficit.....
Posts
149 comments:
"The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency." Update your Newspeak dictionaries accordingly.
If you want to know what a dog is thinking about, just observe what he's looking at. That is what he is thinking about.
Trump doesn't work that way. But these "journalists" aren't smart enough to figure that out.
I’m just glad the Trump administration is finally focused on the real threats — Minnesota and Denmark.
Gives the press and chance to stop looking at Minnesota.
Isn’t Bessent supposed to be the adult in the room? Imagine having so little self respect that you are willing to do another person's bidding against all rational common sense.
he's the good cop, lutnick is the bad cop
I don’t believe the reports that Greenlanders do not want to join America. What has Denmark given them besides money (and sterilizations)? America can give them more money, security and the fast track to becoming American citizens.
The Europeans are getting the message. Conducting military exercises in Greenland as we speak. Strategically, this move makes sense. Especially since the Arctic northern passage is opening up. That's right, kids. Trump believes in Global Warming.
No one cares what Greenlanders think.
The line about preventing a national emergency might be the first inapt thing I've ever heard Bessent say. It seems to me to be true, but if in fact "national emergency" and not Article II powers is the administration's argument in support of the tariffs, then he just handed the Keep America Weak Forever side a rhetorical gift.
the national emergency is avoiding a national emergency?
Hmm….I don’t think that’s how emergencies work.
"Hmm….I don’t think that’s how emergencies work."
It does sound a lot like having to pass the bill to find out what's in it.
I have many contacts in Europe. both professional and personal, and am fluent or comfortable enough in most European languages. Western Europe, including England, are dhimmitude pussies. Poland, Hungary, Austria, and (at least) northern Italy refuse to go along.
The immigrants always intended to conquer, not assimilate. The entire population of Denmark is about the same as Alabama or South Carolina, and US military from either of those two states alone could defend Greenland better than could Denmark.
In 2016, China was talking about development of a submarine base and airfield in Greenland. If Denmark won't sell it, then the US should simply seize it. Too bad. Too essential to our national security. Deal with the fallout, since the Euros all hate Trump in any case.
Straight-up geopolitics. Too Bad, So Sad.
you know right, stephen miller pointed out that nato has kept up its obligations, there is also the matter of simple distance calculations in geography,
Yes, peace through strength. I like this part. Donald Trump has started No Wars. Imagine that.
“You are avoiding creating the emergency, Kristen. What if during the Great Financial Crisis someone had raised their hand in 2005, 2006 and said stop with subprime mortgages? But no one did. President Trump is raising his hand. And that is preventing the emergency.”
I love Bessent, even though he has Soros History.
Bart Hall at 1222. Strong post, brother. Gold Star for you, amigo.
“The Europeans are getting the message. Conducting military exercises in Greenland as we speak.”
What? Like jumping jacks? Trying to gather enough Europeans to field a softball side for the Thule league?
JFK - Russian/Cuban Missiles - DJT -Greenland/Venezuela/China - Discuss/contrast
Not sure that we can know what Trump is really thinking. Time will tell, but Europe needs to grow a pair, nonetheless.
Supposedly Colin Powell said years ago that European leadership was going to go down the toilet as the people who had actually experienced war in Europe aged out of leadership, and he was right about that.
Europe went all in, burned their ships, pushed all the chips on the table, choose your metaphor, based on the word of Joe Biden, and they are well and truly fucked, and they have no friends.
I will be curious if the Democrats nominate somebody who wants to recommit American resources to Europe and support fresh wars in the Middle East, but I have seen over the years, that the Democrats can get their voters to swallow anything. The most pro-war party in Germany was the Green Party, what does that tell you about how liberal parties control their followers?
which budded from the stasi influence op
Europe is like the Jew getting on the train to Auschwitz in 1942. They simply hope what they have heard is not true, and that somehow things will work out OK. I mean there are so many of us here together, and we did nothing to harm them. How could they do anything terrible to us? It's unthinkable. Yes, it is, but ...
Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...
In 2016, China was talking about development of a submarine base and airfield in Greenland. If Denmark won't sell it, then the US should simply seize it. Too bad. Too essential to our national security. Deal with the fallout, since the Euros all hate Trump in any case.
I have read that the previous Prime Minister of Greenland attempted to cut a deal with the CCP for an airport. The Danes were apparently horrified at the thought but don't have the will or ability to bring Greenland to heel.
Meanwhile, China has its eye on the Canadian arctic, where Justin Trudeau allowed the PLA to do winter training in 2020.
Expect for so-called conservatives and Gullibles who scoffed or said Trump was joking to continue to fall in line.
“President Trump believes in NATO but he does not believe in the American people being dragged in.... Of course, we are going to remain a part of NATO. But what President Trump does not want is for a war to start and the U.S. get dragged in.”
That is literally what NATO is for, to reassure Europe that they can drag us in to bail them out if the Russkies or ChiComs start something. That does nothing for us. Take Greenland, dump NATO.
Okay, so the folks who can't describe what a woman is, and think guys dressing up as women are good for our military. The people who routinely simp for our enemies ,are the "good guys". And the guy who recognizes a serious defense flaw wants to proactively correct that flaw. In line with his muscular revamp and improvement of our military capabilities and personnel is somehow the "problem ". Right, got it. It's always helpful when the simping bootlickers self identify.Trump isn't the problem, you are.
"Europe is like the Jew getting on the train to Auschwitz in 1942. They simply hope what they have heard is not true, and that somehow things will work out OK."
Except that the Jews did not get on the trains voluntarily. Western Europe is preemptively surrendering.
We need the ice:
Cubes, buckets of them,
Ice sculptures, the new ballroom needs them daily.
Hockey - nuff said.
I.C.E.
MORE!
I thought the Europeans were afraid of Russia. Trump responds to that and then it’s like, Trump is the problem, not Russia? Makes you wonder if their fight with Russia over Ukraine is just an excuse to continue to pick our pockets.
Now I understand why Trump wants Greenland. The Europeans are not much of a buffer against nobody, let alone the second most nuclear weapons power in the world.
Which European nation will come to our aid if we are attacked by Russia or China or both? Which one will defend Greenland from anyone but Trump? None of them would risk pissing off their next overlords. It's that simple. NATO is useless to us, even dangerous, and they currently oppose us.
They need us for their security and when we say what about this to you know beef up our security, they say, no you’re just a bully. Next thing you know, they are comparing Trump to Putin. I’m not following this thing closely. So I don’t know who the Europeans dislike more Trump or Putin. It’s wouldn’t surprise me if in a secret vote Putin comes out ahead in a popularity contest over there. Trump is Making America see who our Friends are Again. MAFA.
We can see Peace through strength European style.
They are, they claim, sending troops to stop a us invasion of Greenland.
They sent 34,total. Not 3400 or even 340, 34.
Even more entertaining, they could not even find a plane. They had to hire a civilian plane from Poland who is not sending any troops.
It is to laugh.
John Henry
I think it is great that Europe is beefing up their military spending and shouldering more of the expenses for defending themselves, mostly because of the Russia/Ukraine War. It's about time. I just never thought they would be doing it because they also thought the US, under Trump, would militarily invade another NATO country, and they would need to defend themselves against the US.
Listening to Bessent I’m hearing someone who is not completely sold on owning Greenland.
they dislike their own people the most,
EU has been subsumed by neo-leftism, the censorship state and Islam.
…having completed learning what dhimmitude pussies means I think Bessent’s point about sterilization was off key, something lefties would try, but I like the analogy with the Great Financial Crisis. He should have mentioned how Barney Frank nearly single-handedly got that catastrophe going…
It just hit me now. What’s the Difference between the Somalians in Minnesota and the Europeans in Brussels?
Bessent for POTUS! He's got the same killer instinct as Trump. Make America Gay Already! CC, JSM
Lem: "What’s the Difference between the Somalians in Minnesota and the Europeans in Brussels?"
At least the Europeans in Brussels have the common decency to steal from their own people? CC, JSM
It’s like Putin is a foe, Trump says Putin is a foe. We. the US and the so called Allies don’t have the clear thinking Reagan brought to the table, the clear thinking repeatedly declared over and over that ultimately brought the Cold War to an end. Putin’s annexation aspirations is a wake up call.
*Until Trump says… 👆🏽 (making comments via the phone is for the birds)
I'm just recalling back when Merkel won an election at the celebration somebody was waving a German flag, Merkel took it from the flag waiver and put it way in obvious disgust.
And now that Trump want to plant the US flag in Greenland, (and pay for the privilege) they, so called Allies, are having a similar reaction?
Something is way off here.
switched to my computer, much better now.
I am unclear as to how blowing up NATO makes us more secure.
The problem is that Trump’s entire outlook is based on the 18th and 19th centuries.
He likes tariffs because he does not like trade. He views territorial expansion as a good in and of itself. This is why he has a McKinley fetish.
"The U.S. projects strength" right now, with Trump running the show. Should a Democrat be elected in 2028, we'd be back to projecting weakness like the Europeans.
I am unclear as to how blowing up NATO makes us more secure.
NATO is not showing strategic leadership. Trump just wants to put a Property sign on Greenland, "Thou Shall Not Pass", pick your metaphor, and our so called Allies can't see it through? They were shortsighted after WW1 and WW2.
Prepare now, while we have relative peace and we may avoid future hot wars.
To add to the points Bart Hall made ...
One thing I noticed about all the anti-acquisition comments is they assume the status quo is some sort of permanent condition. As Besset alluded in the quote above, that may not be the case.
I made a comment a day or so ago under the assumption that we were leasing the base in Greenland. I've since done some reading that indicates we do not have a lease agreement but our base in Greenland is covered under a 1951 agreement with the Danish government to defend Greenland within the NATO framework. In 2009 the Danes passed an act that allows for self-determination for Greenland. So far the move towards independence is slow but an agreement with the Danish government is likely to be void if Greenland becomes independent. While an independent Greenland might apply for membership in NATO it is not assured they will, and it is almost certain the Greenlanders would (rightly) demand payment for our base. China has already tried to fund an airport in Greenland which was apparently stopped. They've also tried to get into port operations there as they have in many ports in northern Europe. It is a valid concern that we might find ourselves squeezed out of the base in Greenland, and there is no assurance that the Danes are in a position to keep control of Greenland. We will also be paying one way or the other if Greenland becomes independent.
The Euros obstinance about this is somewhat mystifying to me. I get them being shamed by being unable to secure their own backyard from Chinese operations but making silly gestures like dispatching a short bus of troops to Greenland seems to be self-defeating.
Here's another hint about how unserious the Euros are ... we have about 5 times as many troops in Greenland as the force they just dispatched.
Jamie beat me to it. I understand what Bessent said and promote the idea, but that means it isn't an emergency now.
"I am unclear as to how blowing up NATO makes us more secure."
I'll try to help.
Imagine you are out with a group of women. Some of them get drunk and start generally being overly friendly to a bunch of bikers. Some of these guys get out of hand with your "friends", so they point at you and say: "our friend over there will kick your asses."
Lem Vibe Bandit said...
I am unclear as to how blowing up NATO makes us more secure.
NATO is not showing strategic leadership. Trump just wants to put a Property sign on Greenland, "Thou Shall Not Pass", pick your metaphor, and our so called Allies can't see it through? They were shortsighted after WW1 and WW2.
Prepare now, while we have relative peace and we may avoid future hot wars.
1/18/26, 2:31 PM
—— ———————$
You didn’t answer the question. Does blowing up NATO makes us it easier or harder to deal with the Russians and the Chinese?
My view is that the Trump’s security concerns are pre textual. Trump just likes the idea of acquiring more real estate. This is best exemplified by his Canada idiocy which left us worse off.
The Euros obstinance about this is somewhat mystifying to me.
TDS…
NATO nations are not going to protect us. They can't even protect themselves. They are however using us as a reason to stay weak while they court our enemies, and resist us pursuing our mutual interests at every turn . How does that make it easer to contain our enemies?
“ What if during the Great Financial Crisis someone had raised their hand in 2005, 2006 and said stop with subprime mortgages? But no one did.”
I remember many respected people opposed subprime (equity) mortgages back then. They were either ignored or shouted down.
"Trump just likes the idea of acquiring more real estate."
You know it's not his to keep, right? He won't even have a say in it in 3 years. So assuming he really does, why do you think he wants more real estate that he will neither own nor control?
the conclusion is they are being bribed by Xi, by Russian officials or some other party,
This belatedly accepts the end of the Cold War alliances, and returns to classic Great Powers politics. See England vs. France vs. Spain vs. Germany vs. Italy (and Austria-Hungary, etc.) prior to WW1.
Trump Part A:
1. Russia took the economically useful parts of Ukraine and isn't giving them back any time soon.
2. China sponsored Belt and Road all around the world. They are fully prepared to take Taiwan, and likely would have done it already except for the broadly hostile reaction to the Ukraine invasion.
3. Following Jimmy Carter giving back the Panama Canal, the US functioned as a passive doormat superpower. With Trump, the message with demanding Greenland is: "Russia, China -- KEEP OUT!"
Trump Part B:
Trump has been upset by the EU/NATO 'freeloading' on the US military since his first term. He wants the ever-penitent WW2 perpetrators to finally get off their knees, abandon their unrealistic pacifism, and pay their own way. He also believes the US economy has been harmed by some (i.e., Germany) outsourcing military functions even as they harm the US through an export-oriented economy.
He demands that the EU be the major power they could and should be, as they'll also compete with Russia and China.
"You didn’t answer the question. Does blowing up NATO makes us it easier or harder to deal with the Russians and the Chinese?"
NATO is a drain on American resources, and as its utter helplessness in Ukraine has demonstrated, it does not make us safer.
The other thing is that the king of France said an interesting thing after surrendering Quebec to the British in 1763, I think it was, he said that the English king would miss having an enemy to the north to keep the colonies unified and on side, and you now what? Within ten years the American Revolution was underway.
Use of bogeymen is as old as time to solidify power, and suppress dissent. If Europe didn't have Putin, they would need to invent him, in fact they did. Putin wanted Russia to join NATO. Imagine if we had chosen the path of peace at the fall of the USSR? But we didn't, we chose the path of war and manipulation of our populations.
"You didn’t answer the question."
They aren't interested in losing that US gravy train, anymore than Somalia losing theirs in Minnesota.
the belt and road project anyone
The reason why Trump wants to buy Greenland is clear: we can install anti-Russian military installations, including early-warning radar and nuclear bomber bases. Whatever minerals are there, they're covered by a mile of ice. The reason why Denmark wants to keep Greenland is NOT CLEAR. Greenland costs the Danish a fortune and has no apparent advantage. And, on top of all that, the Inuits hate Europeans.
The Danish are acting like irrational AWFuls. Let's hope Denmark offers Trump a 99-year lease for $100 million (or whatever) and this nonsense goes away.
100% Agree with Trump. If we can get Greenland... get it.
"o take Taiwan, and likely would have done it already except for the broadly hostile reaction to the Ukraine invasion."
Maybe at first, but I think that China sees it a lot more from Russia's point of view than they did at the start of the conflict. I think now that any attempt by the West to militarize the island create MacArthur's "unsinkable aircraft carrier" poised at China's underbelly will trigger an invasion. Short of that, they are quite happy to keep things as they are. That is my take.
I think that the assassination attempt by the CIA on Putin and the Venezuela adventure were huge strategic mistakes, from the Ukraine POV, and China and Brazil and India are no longer pressuring Putin to go easy and negotiate, and guess what? The gloves have come off, and Odessa is now in play, and the Ukrainian army is not going to get the breather "time out" that they are begging for.
"the belt and road project anyone"
Imagine a country so evil that they would plan against a naval blockade by the largest naval power that the world has ever seen?
the revolution was provoked by the stamp act, which had to do with financing the cost of the previous war, which had toppled the grafton cabinet, in part because of the missives of Janus, a future figure in the Burke impeachment,
but if in fact "national emergency" and not Article II powers is the administration's argument
FDR started the use of "national emergency" to impose a wool tariff well before WW2 for making military uniforms. Nixon imposed a temporary 10% tariff on all imports when he floated the currency in '71. Post Watergate, Congress wanted to curtail presidential powers and discovered the wool tariff was still in effect, so they passed a law requiring annual declarations.
People who lost their jobs and towns to outsourcing may disagree it isn't an emergency now.
BESSENT: The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency.
Bessent is saying a situation does not have to be in crisis before it is prudent to declare a national emergency due to the substantial risk posed, especially in international and national security affairs, because those risks and crises can delayed and abruptly precipitated by adversarial nation states at moments of their choosing.
Jamie said...
The line about preventing a national emergency might be the first inapt thing I've ever heard Bessent say. It seems to me to be true, but if in fact "national emergency" and not Article II powers is the administration's argument in support of the tariffs, then he just handed the Keep America Weak Forever side a rhetorical gift.
For the reasons above, I see Trump's move as the perfect blending of Article II foreign policy prerogatives of the president, with the emergency powers conferred by congress, which in the tariff argument before the Supreme Court should be given yuge deference by the Court.
Howard said...
...Especially since the Arctic northern passage is opening up. That's right, kids. Trump believes in Global Warming.
A changing ice pack does not require belief in anthropogenic climate change or global warming.
Eventually lefties blame everything on global warming. More proof it's a religion. Just like people say it's God's will, no matter what it is.
"the revolution was provoked by the stamp act, which had to do with financing the cost of the previous war"
So what you are claiming is that the colonies would not have been more manageable if they were threatened from the north by French armies and Indian raids?
I like Bessent's use of language -- the government is taking preemptive actions to prevent a potential crisis from occurring. But he said it in a more approachable way.
Would the colonials have risked starting a war with their king with the threat of a French army sweeping down in a moment of weakness?
My theory: Trump wants NATO to do more to defend Greenland from possible Russian of Chinese adventures. He knows it would be useless to tell them so. So he makes a move to take it over, and they can scurry to defend it. Mission accomplished.
Nordic Aryan Treaty Organization
Fify
And becoming Nazis
would the revolution have happened a generation later, possibly, but i'm referring to a catalytic event,
tcrosse, that's my view too. It matches what we have seen before and how he is more aware of others and takes advantage of their perceing they are smarter. A lot like Hideyoshi's combinations of feigned foolishness and real cunning. Though Trump is also not without the same sorts of weaknesses and missteps.
the French Revolution was also related to the costs of financing the support for the Colonists, along with the bad harvest (in the mini cooling period)
"The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency. It is a strategic decision by the President." LOL. So, anytime is a good time to claim an emergency. The tariffs have no legal basis and this Greenland bullying is stupid and counterproductive.
bagoh20 said...
"Trump just likes the idea of acquiring more real estate."
You know it's not his to keep, right? He won't even have a say in it in 3 years. So assuming he really does, why do you think he wants more real estate that he will neither own nor control?
1/18/26, 2:53 PM
——————————-
I cannot explain the working of Trump’s brain.
"along with the bad harvest (in the mini cooling period)"
If only they had SUVs and more farting cows back then...
"I cannot explain the working of Trump’s brain."
Yet you claim to in your comments. What you can't explain is your own thinking.
AMDG said...
I cannot explain the working of Trump’s brain.
Of course you can't. You are stupid.
He is at least 40 IQ to your right and you can only really understand people who are within 20 IQ points of you.
"I cannot explain the working of Trump’s brain."
Dunning-Kruger is everywhere.
Jaq said...
"o take Taiwan, and likely would have done it already except for the broadly hostile reaction to the Ukraine invasion."
Maybe at first, but I think that China sees it a lot more from Russia's point of view than they did at the start of the conflict. I think now that any attempt by the West to militarize the island create MacArthur's "unsinkable aircraft carrier" poised at China's underbelly will trigger an invasion. Short of that, they are quite happy to keep things as they are. That is my take.
I think that the assassination attempt by the CIA on Putin and the Venezuela adventure were huge strategic mistakes, from the Ukraine POV, and China and Brazil and India are no longer pressuring Putin to go easy and negotiate, and guess what? The gloves have come off, and Odessa is now in play, and the Ukrainian army is not going to get the breather "time out" that they are begging for.
I see no downside here.
We should have traded Ukraine to Russia for the Americas long ago.
"The tariffs have no legal basis"
Isn't that up to the Supreme Court to decide?
A lot of us thought that executive orders that gutted our duly passed immigration laws and flooded our housing market, overloading it, and flooded our labor market, undermining American worker bargaining power on both counts had no legal basis either. But somehow you just looked the other way on those.
It's just astonishing to me how butt hurt Democrats are about moves that protect US labor. It just goes to show again that group dynamics leads to irrational thinking.
Jaq said...
"The tariffs have no legal basis"
Isn't that up to the Supreme Court to decide?
A lot of us thought that executive orders that gutted our duly passed immigration laws and flooded our housing market, overloading it, and flooded our labor market, undermining American worker bargaining power on both counts had no legal basis either. But somehow you just looked the other way on those.
As you so aptly point out, our constitution and supreme court is only there to keep Trump from turning back the globalist agenda.
Also congress is only there to take AIPAC money and keep Trump from actually passing any laws.
The difference between Biden's lawless executive orders, and those of Trump is that Biden's orders hurt American workers, and Trump's help them.
Our military already has the run of Greenland, but it’s not enough until our flag flies over the entire island?
If Trump wanted to be a neocon he should have mentioned it before the last election.
The people of Greenland do not look at all Danish, but they could pass for Americans. It's a beautiful thing.
Achilles said: We should have traded Ukraine to Russia for the Americas long ago.
===========
This is exactly why American voters support Ukraine in the War against Russia, and why Achilles and MAGA support Russia, and still believe that Ukraine started the war against Russia. I know it is insane, and nobody but Achilles and MAGA still believe that Ukraine started the war with Russia by invading Russia, but that is the world we now live in. God help us.
Cheney era wars - we never even got a flag mounted. Just dead bodies.
Prole.
As far as global warming opening up the arctic, here are the facts:
"Satellite records show the passage was open to ordinary ships (without icebreaker escort) in late summer in 2007 and again in 2008 — the first such clearings since systematic records began in the early 1970s."
The 1970s was probably the coldest decade of the century, BTW.
" I know it is insane,"
You should open a history book, because a lot of people who have written history books have no problem with this interpretation of the facts. We backed a coup in Ukraine in 2014, which then cost Ukraine Crimea, and started the civil war which rages to this day. We armed one side in this civil war, and Russia armed the other side, then given that the civil war that we provoked was within a couple of hundred miles of Moscow, and given that our Secretary of State, Blinken, told Russia's foreign minister, Lavrov, that we were going to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine after we brought Ukraine into NATO, well, Russia did exactly what we wanted them to do. The problem is that it didn't work out for the neocons the way they had hoped.
I understand that it is taboo for you to honestly consider this argument because if you found yourself persuaded, you might feel expelled from your social group, and for deeply human reasons, this is intolerable, you will reject the workings of your reason.
There is a whole science about it.
lonejustice said...
Achilles said: We should have traded Ukraine to Russia for the Americas long ago.
===========
This is exactly why American voters support Ukraine in the War against Russia, and why Achilles and MAGA support Russia, and still believe that Ukraine started the war against Russia. I know it is insane, and nobody but Achilles and MAGA still believe that Ukraine started the war with Russia by invading Russia, but that is the world we now live in. God help us.
All Ukraine had to do was sign the Minsk accords like Zelensky promised when he was running for president.
Shipping is using the arctic because Russia has built nuclear powered icebreakers.
Earnest Prole said...
Our military already has the run of Greenland, but it’s not enough until our flag flies over the entire island?
If Trump wanted to be a neocon he should have mentioned it before the last election.
Should we wait for Denmark to be majority muslim before we deal with this?
Ha, looks like google is deleting comments because, you know, freedom of speech is not for the likes of us.
’This is exactly why American voters support Ukraine in the War against Russia, and why Achilles and MAGA support Russia…’
I know at least one American voter who doesn’t care at all about Ukraine. And I don’t support Russia, but recognize it as a significant and lethal power. It’s not binary.
Denmark was sterilizing Greenlanders for decades.
I am curious why anyone thinks Denmark has any right to Greenland at all.
Re: Global warming. It's snowing in Florida again today.
It's always helpful when the simping bootlickers self identify. Trump isn't the problem, you are.
Bears repeating.
Expect for so-called conservatives and Gullibles who scoffed or said Trump was joking to continue to fall in line.
In my own case, this is a fair cop. I did think Trump was just trolling the left when he first mentioned Greenland.
Since then, I have learned more about its strategic importance in a world in which the Arctic route is important in ways it's never been before, in which rare earth minerals are absolutely vital (and the US is infested with NIMBYs), and in which China has turned expansionist and is proving to be very good at it.
The Navajo reservation was supposed to be just a place to park the Navajo, wasn't it? Our record with native Americans being what it is? Too bad about the natural resources that turned out to be there: they rendered more or less useless land valuable... to the wrong people (I mean, when oil was discovered on Indian land in Oklahoma, non-Indians poured in, defrauded Indian families or married Indian women to get land, apparently killed some of them to remove rivals to their claims - because that too was worthless land that had suddenly become valuable). Greenland - nobody (almost nobody) thought much of it for centuries, it seems. But now it's valuable, and underpopulated, and very dependent on the outside. Why not make a play for it?
Achilles said...
Denmark was sterilizing Greenlanders for decades.
==============
The United States has a long and well-documented history of forced and coerced sterilization of its citizens, with hundreds of thousands of people sterilized in the 20th century. This practice disproportionately targeted marginalized populations, including racial minorities, people with disabilities, and the poor. But Achilles and MAGA are good with that. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!! STERILIZE MORE AMERICANS!!!
It was democrats who pushed the sterilization/eugenics in the 20th C.
democrats who pushed the sterilization/eugenics
Planned parenthood through secular subterfuge, then religious refuge, now transition.
Bessent is one of the best communicators in the Trump Administration.
lonejustice said...
Achilles said...
Denmark was sterilizing Greenlanders for decades.
==============
The United States has a long and well-documented history of forced and coerced sterilization of its citizens, with hundreds of thousands of people sterilized in the 20th century. This practice disproportionately targeted marginalized populations, including racial minorities, people with disabilities, and the poor. But Achilles and MAGA are good with that. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!! STERILIZE MORE AMERICANS!!!
Well.
That was stupid.
Greenland is part of NATO. So is the U.S. Therefore the U.S. is already obliged to defend NATO. Bessent is a fool.
Trump doing more to unite Europe than any EU law or directive, you have to give him some credit.
The Prime Minister of Quebec just resigned. He went from 70+% approval 5 years ago to ~10% approval today.
Canada is falling apart both economically and politically.
Selling out to China wont solve this problem. It makes it clear that we cannot depend on the political stability of any of the ailing NATO regimes.
"Trump doing more to unite Europe than any EU law or directive, you have to give him some credit."
Bingo! I suspect that was his intention. He knows they will only do the opposite of what he tells them.
Kakistocracy said...
Greenland is part of NATO. So is the U.S. Therefore the U.S. is already obliged to defend NATO. Bessent is a fool.
Trump doing more to unite Europe than any EU law or directive, you have to give him some credit.
It doesn't matter what Trump does. Europe has decided to become a muslim majority continent.
At least the regimes ruling Europe did.
The people of Europe are trying and failing to resist.
Europe and Minnesota have a lot of similarities.
Both are run by globalists that import foreign soldiers and hate the citizens they are supposed to serve.
Cheney era wars - we never even got a flag mounted. Just dead bodies
No shit. That’s why first-term Donald Trump thinks second-term Donald Trump is an idiot, with his wet dreams of running Gaza and Venezuela.
Hmm….I don’t think that’s how emergencies work.
Really? See: Warming, Global. Also: Running for President, Trump.
This should concentrate some minds.
Will it?
"Europe owns Greenland, it also owns a lot of Treasuries. We spent most of last year arguing that for all its military and economic strength, the US has one key weakness: it relies on others to pay its bills via large external deficits. Europe, on the other hand, is America's largest lender: European countries own $8 trillion of US bonds and equities, almost twice as much as the rest of the world combined. In an environment where the geoeconomic stability of the western alliance is being disrupted existentially, it is not clear why Europeans would be as willing to play this part." ~ Deutsche Bank
Americans are about to find out that mortgage rates are a lot more strongly correlated with 10 year treasuries than they are with the Fed overnight rate.
…buyers of Treasuries are just as addicted to buying them as the US is to selling them…
Who in the world would rather be protected by Denmark than the U.S.A.? Not even the Danish are that dumb.
Amazing! For the first time ever, Jaq (3:11pm) has broken with the Putinite party line and disagreed with Putin. Hope they don’t dock his pay. Too bad he did it by being more Putinite than Putin. Putin says Ukraine tried to kill him with drones, which was an obvious lie, but Jaq calls the thing that never happened an “assassination attempt by the CIA on Putin”! The CIA? Liar, fool, maniac, or some unstable combination of two of those things, or all three? Who can tell? As usual, everything else he writes is also false. The idea that Odesa (only Putinites call it ‘Odessa’) is “in play” is particularly asinine.
Dr Weevil said...
Amazing! For the first time ever, Jaq (3:11pm) has broken with the Putinite party line and disagreed with Putin. Hope they don’t dock his pay. Too bad he did it by being more Putinite than Putin.
That is a good way to tell everyone you are a retard and you don't have any good arguments and you refuse to look at history.
I agree the best way to stop Trump on Greenland is a strong, united front. Polling in the U.S. suggests 80%+ are against the U.S. invading or purchasing Greenland, so it’s an overwhelmingly losing issue for him domestically which should spur more action in Congress. Trump’s overall approval rate is hovering around all-time lows, so Republicans in Congress feel less need to toe his line.
Our military already has the run of Greenland, but it’s not enough until our flag flies over the entire island? If Trump wanted to be a neocon he should have mentioned it before the last election.
Trump did mention it. He expressed his intention to acquire Greenland for America during his first term—then 7 years ago explained why ownership in his view is essential: Because no person or nation defends a lease the way they do their own property.
Ernest Prole: "That’s why first-term Donald Trump thinks second-term Donald Trump is an idiot, with his wet dreams of running Gaza and Venezuela."
Trump wants to prevent long wars. Part of how you do that is by showing what a formidable enemy the US can be. Part of how you do ***that*** is by defeating some people once in a while.
I am reminded of the Happy Days episode where Richie wants Fonzie to teach him how to be a tough guy so he won't be bullied. They go through several lessons on how to act tough, and then Richie is challenged by a ruffian. Fonzie then says "oh, one more thing: to be a tough guy, you have to win at least one fight." CC, JSM
Kakistocracy said...
This should concentrate some minds.
Will it?
It will catch the attention of stupid people.
"Europe owns Greenland, it also owns a lot of Treasuries. We spent most of last year arguing that for all its military and economic strength, the US has one key weakness: it relies on others to pay its bills via large external deficits. Europe, on the other hand, is America's largest lender: European countries own $8 trillion of US bonds and equities, almost twice as much as the rest of the world combined. In an environment where the geoeconomic stability of the western alliance is being disrupted existentially, it is not clear why Europeans would be as willing to play this part." ~ Deutsche Bank
If I owe you $100 that is my problem.
If I owe you 8 Trillion dollars and occupy you with an army that is your problem.
Americans are about to find out that mortgage rates are a lot more strongly correlated with 10 year treasuries than they are with the Fed overnight rate.
You have no idea how mortgage rates are set or how the Fed system works.
All the US has to do is shut down the money going to student loans and Learing Centers and redirect that to home ownership.
Hey, Achilles said something intelligent for a change! What Jaq wrote was indeed the kind of thing you write if you’re looking for “a good way to tell everyone you are a retard and don’t have any good arguments”.
Only the most hardcore of Dementia Donnie’s pedographic support this delusional greed of swallowing up a sovereign territory; only 17% of Americans.want this to happen.
These hardcore MAGATs include uneducated rednecks, delusional neocons, pedophiles and their supporters, corrupted public workers, fascists, powerdrunk small dicks and the rich and powerful who profit from war.
Oh yeah, and Putin. Exploding the NATO alliance would please him immensely.
Whatever minerals are there, they're covered by a mile of ice.
Nonsense. While the bulk of subcontinental-sized Greenland is engulfed in an up to 2 mile (3.3 km) thick ice sheet, that still leaves huge areas not so encased. Indeed, the permanently ice-free parts of the world's greatest island add up to more than 410,000 square km (158,000 sq. mi.), or larger than the states of California (land area), Montana, and Germany.
If Greenland were a U.S. state, overall it would by far be the largest (a quarter-again greater than even Alaska—which itself is 1/5 the size of the entire contiguous U.S.). Thus, Greenland would demote Texas to 3rd largest, and California and (my own home state of) Montana to 4th and 5th (sigh).
But even discounting all of Greenland's stupendous ice cap, that would still leave Greenland 3rd largest state in the nation—behind Alaska and Texas—by land (as opposed to ice) area.
And here comes TBF, who thinks there’s such a thing as a “sovereign territory”! That’s a blatant contradiction in terms: a territory is distinguished from a state by the very fact that it is non-sovereign, and belongs to some sovereign state! It’s clowns all around tonight, like most nights.
If global warming is the threat everyone says it is than the shipping lanes between Greenland and Europe will be wide open. What that means is Russian ships and subs will easily navigate those waters. What that does is allow them open access to the nuclear port in northern Scotland.
We need to have a true base there to stop Russia from easy access to the northern Atlantic.
And they way the Europeans are being invaded by Muslims there is no reason to think these countries will become more reasonable as time passes. Look how crazy the UK has become.
Trump wants to prevent long wars. Part of how you do that is by showing what a formidable enemy the US can be. Part of how you do ***that*** is by defeating some people once in a while.
Dude, I’m going to let you in on a little secret: The commenters here weren’t born yesterday. They’re old enough to have heard the Democrat-Republican monoparty make exactly your case at least fifty times in the last fifty years.
Dr Weevil said...
Hey, Achilles said something intelligent for a change! What Jaq wrote was indeed the kind of thing you write if you’re looking for “a good way to tell everyone you are a retard and don’t have any good arguments”.
Let me help you.
If you think people being opposed to taking money from Americans and giving it to a corrupt dictator in Ukraine so his friends can install golden toilets and flee to Israel with the money makes that person a Putin Puppet you are a retard.
"I don’t believe the reports that Greenlanders do not want to join America. What has Denmark given them besides money (and sterilizations)? America can give them more money, security and the fast track to becoming American citizens."
Why in the world would you assume the Greenlanders want that?!
Cook: "the fast track to becoming American citizens.....Why in the world would you assume the Greenlanders want that?!"
Maybe because we have about 30 million illegals in our country with similar desires? CC, JSM
Russia isn't going to change; the US is now strategically useless. The alliances are now tawdry protection rackets. European leaders need to keep reality front and center. Trump is a fool; Putin is not.
"Who in the world would rather be protected by Denmark than the U.S.A.? Not even the Danish are that dumb."
Why would anyone want to be "protected" by the U.S.A. It's the kind of "protection" the Mafia "offer" to store owners and small businesses in areas where the Mafia operates. Those being "protected" are paying the people they want protection from.
ICE is purported to be a police force of some sort, one alleged to be for our good and protection from all the havoc and violence wreaked by illegal immigrants...when the only havoc and violence we can see is that initiated by ICE itself, a secret "police" agency that is staffed by violent thugs probably made up of cashiered and disgraced former police officers from other law agencies, or just louts and bar brawlers with no police experience but who see a good way to make money and kick ass!
Despicable shits.
Did the CIA try to assassinate Putin or not, Achilles? Jaq says yes, but Putin says it was Ukraine. That does in fact make Jaq a hyperPutinite, ‘plus royaliste que le roi’, as the French say.
"Why in the world would you assume the Greenlanders want that?!
'Maybe because we have about 30 million illegals in our country with similar desires?''
A more realistic number is half of that, or fewer. That aside, residents of Greenland are living in their own land, presumably happily and not seeking to find other nations to flee to. Anyone around the world can clearly see the chaos, corruption, violence and appalling behavior wrought by the Trump US Govt. to our own people. Sane people everywhere want nothing to do with the US.
@John Henry, I'm surprised you haven't commented more on this issue, or maybe I've missed it. But as with Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, American Samoa - what's to stop making a territory of Greenland, a protectorate? And what would be the downsides to both sides? I'm not seeing them, to be honest.
“ Whatever minerals are there, they're covered by a mile of ice”
Greenland has no roads or rail of mining significance. If you find a deposit on the coast and can make a port, and bring in power plants you have a chance. The place almost certainly has a wealth of minerals but is not explored or developed even to the degree of 1870 Nevada.
You don’t fly raw ore out on airplanes that can land on frozen lakes, and you can’t produce concentrate without electricity in industrial quantity. Arctic mining is possible, but it takes much capital even before you buy the Mining equipment. It will happen someday but not soon. And you need labor concentrated in one place, not a Greenland thing. In Canada they have ice lake truckers and people who live in the mines for 2 months and fly home, so that’s what you are looking at for Greenland.
There is a small gold mine and an anorthite mine but the Chinese iron mine was abandoned in Greenland. So perhaps in 20 years there will be something. Better to go to Nevada, Utah, Arizona and Australia.
More evidence of Trump's megalomania and senilty. He makes pronouncement without basis, and his minions have to bow and scrape to try to cover for him.
It is so telling that one of trumps top cabinet members is gay and compare his performance and persona to Buttigieg. The Dei of Buttigieg couldn’t be more glaring.
AMDG @ 2:18
Stop thinking. You're no good at it.
NATO refuses to pay it's own way. In fact they are heavily in debt to China. They are overwhelmed by muslims. They are, therefore, unreliable partners. Hence Greenland.
Comrade Cook enters the fray and beclowns himself. Protection? Puerto Rico, Guam, The Virgin Islands.
Greenland would become a territory of the US. All of the privileges and none of the downside,(taxes).
Plus there are only 57,000 of them. We should start a campaign. "Adopt a Greenlander". You know. Send em stuff.
Sweeten the pot. Every Greenlander getsva coupe of mil. and a percentage of anything taken from the ground.
We bribed the Alaskans to get the oil, and we still pay them, and I think they like it.
"More evidence of Trump's megalomania and senilty"
It's really getting old. No new ideas for the last decade?
If the same unthinking insults are all you got, maybe the subject matter is above your pay grade.
If you say that after Trump latest to Nowegian leader, hah.
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