From "Trump says Hegseth denied issuing order to kill boat crew/The president also said he would not have wanted a second strike on a boat allegedly carrying drugs, which occurred after U.S. forces realized the initial attack left two survivors, as The Post reported" (WaPo)(gift link, so you can read the whole thing).
UPDATE: "Hegseth Ordered a Lethal Attack but Not the Killing of Survivors, Officials Say" (NYT): "According to five U.S. officials, who spoke separately and on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter that is under investigation, Mr. Hegseth, ahead of the Sept. 2 attack, ordered a strike that would kill the people on the boat and destroy the vessel and its purported cargo of drugs. But, each official said, Mr. Hegseth’s directive did not specifically address what should happen if a first missile turned out not to fully accomplish all of those things. And, the officials said, his order was not a response to surveillance footage showing that at least two people on the boat survived the first blast. Admiral Bradley ordered the initial missile strike and then several follow-up strikes that killed the initial survivors and sank the disabled boat. As that operation unfolded, they said, Mr. Hegseth did not give any further orders to him."
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The goal of this war is to stop the flow of drugs as described in the WSJ article (gift link) I cited above.
Therefore, each of the targets in this war consist of three things: the boats, the drugs in the boats, and the crews manning the boats. Destroying the targets advances us towards the war's goal.
First of all, I somehow missed the congressional declaration of war.
Secondly, do you (and this is for all of you who think the U.S. should be committing war crimes, or claim it isn't a war crime or outright murder) really believe that we can save civilization through barbarism.
The coast guard has been interdicting drug boats for years. I had a coworker who was former coast guard. He volunteered for ice breaker duty on Lake Superior. He figured summers would not be busy. But as he said, "I then found out the hard that icebreakers do drug interdiction in the Caribbean Sea during the summer."
My sources say their sources are full of shit.
See? Anybody can do it.
If true, this is either a war crime or flat out murder.
Terrorist sympathizer switches his allegiances to drug smugglers. /shocked
"The coast guard has been interdicting drug boats for years."
It clearly hasn't been effective.
Terrorist sympathizer switches his allegiances to drug smugglers. /shocked
Are you saying drug smugglers are not terrorists? You are reinforcing my point.
I’ve actually said for years that Trump could have ordered, and still can, an air strike on Norton’s Children Hospital in downtown Louisville, admit to it, and promise to hit Saint Jude’s next and the Basket of Gulibles would be defending him.
The hold is an amazing phenomenon.
Ronald J. Ward said...
I’ve actually said for years that Trump could have ordered, and still can, an air strike on Norton’s Children Hospital in downtown Louisville, admit to it, and promise to hit Saint Jude’s next and the Basket of Gulibles would be defending him.
The hold is an amazing phenomenon.
Actually it wouldn't be us that defended him.
It would be Barrack Obama that would defend him. Barrack Obama set the precedent and showed that it was perfectly legal for the US President to kill American Citizens.
If you don't like the President ordering the destruction of drug boats full of guns you have one option:
Impeachment.
You fucking traitors aren't going to put any generals or sec defs or soldiers in jail. You are a fucking retard if you think you are.
Impeach Trump for blowing up drug boats in the Caribbean or stfu.
Jim at said...
“My sources say their sources are full of shit. See? Anybody can do it.”
My sources say the same thing that your sources are saying. So now we have multiple sources confirming that their sources are full of shit.
We might need some exlax
Impeach Trump for blowing up drug boats in the Caribbean or stfu.
Easier said than done, considering that indictment in the Senate would require the buy-in of half the Republicans.
The strike on that afgan family after abbey gate was particularly in bad odor
I’ve actually said for years that Trump could have ordered, and still can, an air strike on Norton’s Children Hospital in downtown Louisville, admit to it, and promise to hit Saint Jude’s next and the Basket of Gulibles would be defending him.
That will be in his new healthcare plan. Sick kids are nothing but "useless eaters"
Are you saying drug smugglers are not terrorists? You are reinforcing my point.
No. I'm saying you were a terrorist sympathizer during the Iraq War and I'm saying you're sympathizing with drug-smugglers now.
You've always taken the side opposite of what's best for this nation and that makes you a fifth-column piece of shit.
Clear enough now?
Who came up with death panels in the stimulus panel again
Who mused you could give an elderly person a pill, if they didnt qualify for surgery because age
"Secondly, do you (and this is for all of you who think the U.S. should be committing war crimes, or claim it isn't a war crime or outright murder) really believe that we can save civilization through barbarism."
You still haven't answered my objection, you're just pounding the table with a childish appeal to emotion. My claim is that the crews of narco smuggling boats are the equivalent of pirates. You can kill pirates on the open sea. It's one of the oldest laws of the sea. You can also take them back home and hang them, but the Democratic Party won't let us do that, so, death on the high seas it is.
Civilization is maintaned by repelling barbarians. They're always out there, looking to get in and sack the place. That's why I pay high taxes for the war department to keep them out. By whatever means necessary. It's actually at the root of civilization.
You've always taken the side opposite of what's best for this nation and that makes you a fifth-column piece of shit.
There is apparently a large gulf between what you believe is best for the nation and what I believe.
And please explain how Iraq and Afghanistan turned out to be best for the nation.
https://thehill.com/homenews/5628447-defense-secretary-authorizes-drug-boat-strike/
It's confirmed. He did this against Trump's wishes. "No. I wouldn't have wanted that second strike."
Will Trump prosecute Pete? How can he not?
Planned Piratehood (PP) has a Democratic appeal with empathetic consensus following progressive principles executed with liberal license. Abort. Sequester. #NoJudgment #NoLabels #LustWins
The pirates of Venezuela that export George "Fentanyl" Floyd Syndrome. #BabyLivesMatter (BLM)
“ Will Trump prosecute Pete? How can he not?”
Easily. No case can get into a US court proving that everything wasn’t perfectly legal. No one has legal standing.
My claim is that the crews of narco smuggling boats are the equivalent of pirates. You can kill pirates on the open sea. It's one of the oldest laws of the sea.
Not anymore it isn't.
The pirates of Venezuela that export George "Fentanyl" Floyd Syndrome.
There is zero evidence that any fentanyl is coming from Venezuela. You only think there is because the you heard it from the same TOP MEN that told us about all those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Commenters here are either ignoring or ignorant of how the fleet operational commanders function. I am assuming that the commander who ordered the attack was the Anti-Surface Unit Warfare Commander (call sign Alfa Sierra) for the Fleet Battle Force Commander (call sign Alfa Bravo,) and was operating under the Navy "command by negation" ROE. In this command structure the AS is given specific operational objectives, e.g., "sink every suspected drug running boat" and when he has a target identified he informs AB he is going to fire on the target. AB can then either concur with the attack by not objecting or actively negate it. All of this happens more or less automatically because there is generally little time to have a discussion and seek permission. In particular, it is delusional to expect AB to go up the chain of command to get permission for something that he is expected to do and already has standing authorization to do. I seriously doubt anyone talked to Hegseth before or after the first strike on the target, but most likely AS was informed that the boat capsized but was still floating and ordered a second tap to sink it.
Anyway, when I was AS for the Arabian Gulf Battle Force during Desert Storm that's the way we operated 35 years ago and I doubt it has changed.
Kakistocracy said...
The extraterritorial killing of human beings in international waters in the manner shown here and without any evidence doesn’t get much more illegal than this.
Once again, Kak is ignoring there are laws ON THE BOOKS that allow firing upon smugglers/pirates/stateless vessels, the last of which is presumed to be one of the first two. Taking evasive action also leads to a presumption of guilt. Laws on the high seas aren't identical to laws within the 12 mile limit and ashore.
14 USC 637: Stopping vessels; immunity for firing at or into vessel
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-2000-title14-section637&num=0&edition=2000
14 U.S. Code § 526 - Stopping vessels; indemnity for firing at or into vessel
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/14/526
"Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Same reason here.
Achilles, you’re too easily; Arguing with you is like shooting fish in a barrel because you most always prove me right.
“ Barrack Obama set the precedent and showed that it was perfectly legal for the US President to kill American Citizens.”
There’s your justification should Trump bomb a Children’s hospital or travel the country lobbing hand grenades into maternity wards.
Those dastardly democrats said t was okay so there! You’ve been given permission to kneel at the Cheeto Alter regardless of any crime the Mango God commits.
This is the part where just saying nothing would have served you well. Some folks just can’t stand prosperity. You just have to let that cult light shine.
Gospace: Those statutes justify the first strike if they followed the statute.
14 USC 637: "(a) Whenever any vessel liable to seizure or examination does not stop on being ordered to do so or on being pursued by an authorized vessel or authorized aircraft which has displayed the ensign, pennant, or other identifying insignia prescribed for an authorized vessel or authorized aircraft, the person in command or in charge of the authorized vessel or authorized aircraft may, after a gun has been fired by the authorized vessel or authorized aircraft as a warning signal, fire at or into the vessel which does not stop."
Did they fire a warning shot and give vessel an opportunity to stop and turn around? If so, that's great for first strike. By the time the second strike came around there was no "vessel" to left stop. Please find some other statute to justify what looks like a war crime.
I'll also remind everyone of this:
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5559461-admiral-alvin-holsey-retires-southcom/
the runners have largely been depicted as poorer fish farmers down on their luck.
Yep. By the same people who want them now to be depicted as helpless victims.
When you sign up as a drug runner, you sign up for some very dangerous business.
If the hapless fishermen happen to run into some real hapless fisherman who get in the way, who is the victim?
"Not anymore it isn't."
Just a blanket assertion from someone arguing in bad faith. I see Gospace has cited the US Code saying it is the law. Shrug. Beats me. I'm fine with killing pirates. Get back to me when Trump bombs a maternity ward. Eye roll.
What happens when an abortionist fails to complete his mission with the first attempt?
The mother gave the order, and I don't think they will consult her before completing it. No attempts at moral superiority will be forthcoming, despite the innocence involved.
Yes Boatbuilder, I get that and I’m not saying drug runners aren’t committing a crime.
What I’ve been saying is that they are small potatoes in stopping the larger drug flow problem and utterly useless in gaining intelligence if they are dead or shark meat.
Ultimately, it doesn’t add up. Nothing about this adds up and it gives the appearance of theatrics to go after Venezuela assets.
@ Bruce Hayden: I would add to that — US power in the 20th century was built on oil. China is betting on disrupting this power structure by electrifying the global economy.
Do you have any idea where "electricity" comes from?
The problem with calling this a war crime or murder, even if you are right, is that it happens all the time under every President and in every conflict. So, now what?
I imagine the on site officer was given wide latitude
Not to worry, only people with a conscience or at least a scrap of morality object to murdering people floating in the ocean, cling to wreckage, not MAGAts.
Btw, no fentanyl is on these boats, just Donnie Jr’s favorite breakfast food, cocaine.
I never thought that avenging George Floyd would be so controversial.
The problem with calling this a war crime or murder, even if you are right, is that it happens all the time under every President and in every conflict. So, now what?
We start holding people accountable. That includes Obama, and Trump, and the Cheneys and everyone who has broken the law. This is that deeps. Criminals start going to jail even if they are on "our team."
In this case, it does not look like Trump authorized the actions---unlike Obama---but how will Trump respond to the perps? At a bare minimum, will he fire Pistol Pete?
Do I think Trump will do the right thing? No, I do not. I would love to be surprised but the rule of law no longer interferes with The Cause.
But he is never held accountable for every crime against the body politic
"Do you have any idea where "electricity" comes from?"
The holes. (H/t @Slippery Pete)
In the movie "Breaker Morant," about a trial of soldiers for allegedly unlawful killings committed during the Boer War,
the prosecution brings up the fact that one of the defendants was previously reprimanded for putting Boer prisoners in railway cars ahead of the locomotive, where they were in danger of being blown up when the Boers mined the railway lines.
On cross examination, the defendant's attorney gets the accuser to admit that the practice caused the Boers to stop mining the lines.
This isnt unique to the us, in the uk they have been pursuing paras from 50 years ago while the provos escape accountability
D.D. Driver said...
We start holding people accountable. That includes Obama, and Trump, and the Cheneys and everyone who has broken the law.
What law did they break?
Kegsbreath was a great hire, as are all of DJT’s cabinet choices…… until they late inevitably humiliated and disgraced by their own incompetence and then we open the clown car door and replace them with another sycophant star fucker.
- MAGAt Nation
Ronald J. Ward said...
Achilles, you’re too easily; Arguing with you is like shooting fish in a barrel because you most always prove me right.
“ Barrack Obama set the precedent and showed that it was perfectly legal for the US President to kill American Citizens.”
There’s your justification should Trump bomb a Children’s hospital or travel the country lobbing hand grenades into maternity wards.
Those dastardly democrats said t was okay so there! You’ve been given permission to kneel at the Cheeto Alter regardless of any crime the Mango God commits.
This is the part where just saying nothing would have served you well. Some folks just can’t stand prosperity. You just have to let that cult light shine.
Um. did you read your own post before you posted it?
How fucking stupid are you?
What law did Barrack Obama break?
What Law did Donald Trump break?
Bonus question for retards: Do the Geneva Conventions cover people not in military uniforms and not flying country flags and not responding to standard radio frequencies with guns and drugs in their boats?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgk1l4lrrdo
Did bin laden win in the end
Correlation is not causation, but people who insist on repeatedly using not-very-big words that they can't even spell, like 'gullible', also tend to misuse not-very-complex arguments that they don't understand and that do not convince. No surprise there.
Keystone Kash was another great hire.
Pedo Cheeto is infallible, all hail.
They tend to believe things like 'you can keep your doctor and your plan'
*Snort
They tend to believe stuff like Donnie is in perfect health without a hint of dementia.
I aCeD My CogNitiIvE TeSt!!!!
I aM VerY StaBLE gaeNiUS!!!!!
Airbases were overrun, kiev was invaded hamas planned their death stroke
Why would they waste one of those ridiculously expensive rockets to finish the job when the sea would do it for free? Anonymous sources can say anything. It used to be that reporters had to find proof of the tips provided by anonymous sources. Many applecarts in the Pentagon have been turned over but all the asses pulling them have not yet been cashiered.
They believe they can abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester the "burden" of evidence, and have her, too, is a fetus... feature of progressive sects.
"Anonymous sources can say anything. It used to be that reporters had to find proof of the tips provided by anonymous sources."
Anonymous source reports "X" through MSM outlet A. MSM outlets B, C and D report that MSM outlet A reported "X". The rest of the MSM idiots report that MSM outlet A's report of "X" has been confirmed to have been reported by multiple MSM outlets.
And it's all lies. But they're confirmed.
It is interesting about the people calling this a "war crime" mention "survivors" and nothing about "surrender". Only Tim Maguire asks about "surrender", and no one else mentions the word.
In the movie "Breaker Morant," about a trial of soldiers for allegedly unlawful killings committed during the Boer War,
the prosecution brings up the fact that one of the defendants was previously reprimanded for putting Boer prisoners in railway cars ahead of the locomotive, where they were in danger of being blown up when the Boers mined the railway lines.
On cross examination, the defendant's attorney gets the accuser to admit that the practice caused the Boers to stop mining the lines.
To think that anyone would cite Breaker Morant to advocate the commission of unlawful acts by our military, just stuns me! What happens at the end of the movie?
I think you were just counting on it to be obscure enough that no one would call you on it. Unfortunately for you, it is one of my all time favorites, I have probably seen it ten times. I'm sure Bruce Beresford would be dumbfounded by your take-away from the film.
"What happens at the end of the movie?" I don't know. I've never seen it. If you think it's pertinent, why don't you tell us?
#babydriversmatter
teh teabaggin’ hag can go chortle canine plums.
“What I’ve been saying is that they are small potatoes in stopping the larger drug flow problem and utterly useless in gaining intelligence if they are dead or shark meat.”
When a drug smuggler dies, a flower blooms. I say acres and acres of flowers would be a beautiful sight. Let law enforcement work their way up the food chain. That would be a beautiful thing… a righteous thing.
It’s about time we had a president who did what’s required to protect the homeland from criminal enemies.
Kill ALL these sons of bitches!!!
What happens at the end of the movie?" I don't know. I've never seen it. If you think it's pertinent, why don't you tell us?
Because 45 years after I first saw it, it is still one of my favorite films and maybe someone else will discover it.
Maybe someone else will discover it, but I'm less likely to watch it now that I know someone who loves it dearly can't be bothered to explain how it's pertinent to his argument, but expects me to take it on faith that it proves he's right and 'boatbuilder' is wrong.
"What I’ve been saying is that they are small potatoes in stopping the larger drug flow problem and utterly useless in gaining intelligence if they are dead or shark meat." More horseshite similar to "the crime in D.C. is not bad enough to send in the Guard". Each dead drug runner is one less drug runner. And the amount of gaslighting the ignorant, lying Left here spouts: Donald Jr cocaine? Hunter Biden weeps.
Spare me the fucking crocodile tears, lefties.
Barack Obama droned hundreds of civilians without trial, including American citizens and their children.
You all don’t give a damn for the lives of these worthless scum poisoning our children by the hundreds of thousands. You’re just cackling, aha, this time we’ve got Trump!!
Geneva rules apply only to uniformed combatants in the service of sovereign states who are signatories to the convention. We’re within our rights in the high seas to blow these obvious drug-runner boats to smithereens, and machine-gun the survivors in the water, and I hope we continue to do so.
Desperate for an issue to scream about for their base, they've chosen to attack the President through the military on the basis of eliminating drug smugglers on the high seas, as if that's something bad. Shaking my head, thousands of screeching harpies and purple-faced blowhards all pointing at a pinprick of floating wreckage, trying to inflate it into the Maginot Line, as if it counts for a single thing. This is already last week's story, as far as I can see, even though the Legacy Media was wheeled in the crash cart and dialed up the paddles to Maximum.
Hey ! What happened to Epstein ? I was reliably told by actual named sources that we could expect load after load of incriminating, damaging, potentially regime-ending stuff on Trump. What about Epstein? I wanna see Epstein !
we can save civilization through barbarism.
You bet your ass we can.
Kindness to the cruel is cruelty to the kind.
I am in favor of mandatory public execution for every second conviction for a violent felony, or every third conviction for ANY felony, providing that felonies are dialed back and reserved for real crimes with real victims, not the obsessions of grandstanding politicians who’d make it a felony to own a gun magazine one cartridge larger than they think is appropriate.
We don’t have to tolerate these vicious, violent thugs among us. We ought to be putting down 25,000 of these rabid dogs per year.
Video is out. The "Double Tap" never happened.
I don't expect the traitors on here crying crocodile tears for drug runners to admit everything they have been going on about today was a big fat lie.
You are just complete pieces of shit.
The leftists on this board crack me up. As if they know more about what's going on than Trump, Hegseth and all the president's advisors combined.
Next week, they'll be experts on something else. And they'll be just as wrong.
Yeah. The video is out. And everything they were pushing today turned out to be wrong. Again.
Who knew stepping on rakes was addictive behavior?
You mean those anonymous sources with direct knowledge of the operation were wrong?
This is my shocked face. (☉_ ☉)
If it's true that there was never any 'double tap' to begin with, then this fact would have been known by the Trump team at the outset - yet wasn't disclosed. If true, then this administration has become pretty adept at setting their traps. Shutting down the constant leaking has gained them the safe space to develop and execute their plans, and it's working.
..and yes, Breaker Morant is an excellent movie.
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