Althouse: At the Monday Night Café...

December 15, 2025

At the Monday Night Café...

... you can talk about whatever you want.

132 comments:

RCOCEAN II said...: Rod Dreher substack censored in UK. Seems you don't get any credit for being the biggest cuck of all time. Link https://archive.is/iyDkt; 12/15/25, 6:58 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: This is after Dreher publically called for Tucker Carlson to be cancelled because he had Fuentes on his show. Sad how the liberal/left doesn't reward their lackeys and bootlickers.; 12/15/25, 7:01 PM
Clyde said...: Clyde's Top 15 Favorite "New" Songs of 2025 - Honorable Mentions - (Part 5 of 5) - Kayak - "Merlin" - Merlin: Bard of the Unseen (2003)

I called an audible on this one. The original plan for HM #5 was a 2025 song by Lukas Nelson, "Born Running Outta Time," which is a pretty good song. However, I had been listening to this song, as well as the rest of the album, and it has been growing on me, so I changed plans at the last minute. Like the Renaissance song that I mentioned yesterday, this one also was on that progressive rock playlist from a few weeks ago.

Kayak was a Dutch progressive rock band. In 1981, they put out an album titled Merlin, with five songs relating to the King Arthur legend on the first side and five unrelated songs on the other side. They disbanded in 1982 but reunited in 1999 for a television performance and then reformed the band. In 2003, they recorded this rock-opera album, re-recording the five songs from the Merlin album and adding nine more to cover the entire King Arthur story. Their sound reminded me a bit of Styx and a bit of Kansas at times. If you like this song, I encourage you to seek out the entire album.

https://youtu.be/Rw6RnPHnszQ?si=WnjbuUc7XDv4W-0G; 12/15/25, 7:02 PM
narciso said...: Watch: Second Bondi hero helps disarm gunmen, only for police to shoot at him https://share.google/KQZOzw8zCesxoOk3q; 12/15/25, 7:07 PM
Humperdink said...: I have watched that 10 minute of the Muslim terrorist shooting Jews from atop the bridge more than once. 10 full minutes of shooting! First responders *cough* nowhere to be found. He/ she didn’t put the iPhone camera down for nary a moment. I am thinking, go to your closet, grab your 30.06 rifle or your AR-15 and put the guy down!

Who am I kidding, this is Australia where peace and safety reign supreme.; 12/15/25, 7:08 PM
narciso said...: https://youtu.be/PyxAuiBB-lU?si=_wsEdhfdD6yspT4N; 12/15/25, 7:09 PM
john mosby said...: Clyde: Kayak's entire oeuvre seems to be on Amazon Music. I skimmed through their live album and it is pretty cool! Thanks!
CC, JSM; 12/15/25, 7:10 PM
narciso said...: https://youtu.be/bKhmdeaAj5w?si=zS37oNSe7nmPnlA-; 12/15/25, 7:14 PM
Original Mike said...: The Prime Minister of Australia says the true threat is “right-wing extremist groups”

Truly unbelievable. What is wrong with him? Is this dishonesty or stupidity?; 12/15/25, 7:21 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: Trump doubles down on Rob Reiner comments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpl0pH9YOEw; 12/15/25, 7:21 PM
FullMoon said...: "He/ she didn’t put the iPhone camera down for nary a moment. "
If the person takig vid had a gun, things may heve been different. Did cops see the shooter? Have difficult time believing cops would not have tried to shoot the guys if they could see them; 12/15/25, 7:22 PM
Beasts of England said...: ’What is wrong with him?’

I’ll take ‘evil’ for the win.; 12/15/25, 7:23 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: Throughout 2015-2020 Reiner never stopped lying and accusing Trump of being a traitor to the USA and an agent of Putin. So, if Trump isn't broke up about his death, well what goes around comes around.

Too bad the Right and Center-Right are so full of cucks and virtue signallers. They can never get it through their heads that the Left (like reiner) wouldn't have given a good Goddamn if they were murdered. But like I said, they get some weird thrill out of being "Beautiful Losers".; 12/15/25, 7:25 PM
narciso said...: Dhimmi idiot; 12/15/25, 7:28 PM
narciso said...: Im reminded of that long essay that dan simmons wrote about 2006, about circumstances now; 12/15/25, 7:31 PM
Clyde said...: @ narciso at 7:14 PM
Thanks for that Kayak video!; 12/15/25, 7:38 PM
narciso said...: Heres an earlier one

https://youtu.be/Yii6Xi8tkI4?si=9GAvCH1VPhBnVMbS; 12/15/25, 7:44 PM
BG said...: I've been thinking about politicians trying advise soldiers about not obeying unlawful orders, even though none have been given. I don't think they really thought this through. So many of the new recruits joined up once Trump was elected. Quotas were met ahead of time. The Biden administration had a hard time getting anywhere near to meeting quotas. I don't think they will pay very much attention to what those senators have been saying.; 12/15/25, 7:46 PM
narciso said...: That went away like a 'summer breeze' it will be back like a mighty wind soon though; 12/15/25, 7:54 PM
lonejustice said...: RCOCEAN II said...
Throughout 2015-2020 Reiner never stopped lying and accusing Trump of being a traitor to the USA and an agent of Putin. So, if Trump isn't broke up about his death, well what goes around comes around.

-- the difference is that Trump jokes and laughs about the death of his political opponents. He laughs and jokes about it. So when people joke about the death of Charlie Kirk, you are good with that?; 12/15/25, 7:55 PM
Peachy said...: De-fanged corrupt - or - inept -->Police in Australia. Sickening.; 12/15/25, 7:57 PM
Peachy said...: Reiner's Twitter TDS; 12/15/25, 7:58 PM
narciso said...: https://x.com/buitengebieden/status/2000556854058082313?s=20; 12/15/25, 7:58 PM
Maynard said...: Throughout 2015-2020 Reiner never stopped lying and accusing Trump of being a traitor to the USA and an agent of Putin. So, if Trump isn't broke up about his death, well what goes around comes around.

I agree that Reiner was so far out of bounds that almost made Igna seem logical and sane. However, Trump should not be stooping to Reiner's level.; 12/15/25, 8:06 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: He didn't "stoop to Reiner's level". He just said he had TDS and its sad he died.; 12/15/25, 8:10 PM
narciso said...: His was an increasingly 'more selective audience' like thd strigoi who pop up over here; 12/15/25, 8:13 PM
narciso said...: The spinal tap sequel was a sad affair; 12/15/25, 8:15 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: He calls the murder "a very sad thing". And ends with "May Rob and Michele Rest in Peace". He implies Reiner was a Ragaholic and this may have caused "anger in others".

That not much compared to constantly calling someone a facist/nazi and a threat to democracy. Or a foreign spy betraying the USA. Or demanding they be Jailed over their politics.

Good God, Reiner was never civil to anyone he disliked. But Gosh, we should all be civil about his death. Trump thinks that's absurd. And so do I. Amazing how Non-Christians want to "turn the other cheek". I guess they do that after mocking Jesus Christ and talking about "As an athiest...".; 12/15/25, 8:16 PM
Breezy said...: I’ve come to believe that Jewish communities should always have good people with guns in their midst, wherever they gather. Advertise that fact or not, depending on the circumstance. The Aussie police were wholly inadequate, to put it mildly. If I were Jewish, I’d be carrying everywhere.; 12/15/25, 8:34 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: If I were part of the White community in the UK I'd be very nervous. But they can't "Carry".

Or part of the White Community in any big USA city. Seems like every day some average white person is murdered by someone who's been released from jail 20 times, or is an illegal alien.; 12/15/25, 8:45 PM
buwaya said...: I attended quite a few bar and bat mitzvahs in San Francisco, as so many of our kids friends were Jewish. They DID have guards at the temples (well, the two we went to). Not obviously armed but who knows.; 12/15/25, 8:55 PM
Kakistocracy said...: Donald Trump sues BBC for up to $10bn over edit of January 6 speech ~ The Guardian

Would he not be opening himself up to discovery?

The BBC could request documents, emails, messages, anything related to the insurrection. They just might want all the material Jack Smith had.

Arkell v Pressdram

Trump is arguable the most public of public officials. The bar is set very high to prove any malice. There is no defamation, no deception nor disparagment, no 'malicious depiction'. And that is how it should be. Public figures especially political public figures invite publicity and news coverage. This is a frivolous lawsuit--in fact, the BBC should counter Trump personally ...; 12/15/25, 9:11 PM
Michael Fitzgerald said...: I saw armed guards at every Jewish school and Synagogue when I lived in Los Angeles 25 years ago. What a shame and disgrace it was for our country that Jews could not go to school or to worship without the threat of attack and murder.; 12/15/25, 9:25 PM
Achilles said...: Kakistocracy said...

Donald Trump sues BBC for up to $10bn over edit of January 6 speech ~ The Guardian

Would he not be opening himself up to discovery?

The BBC could request documents, emails, messages, anything related to the insurrection. They just might want all the material Jack Smith had.

The democrats have already leaked everything they had to the media. You are a retard if you think Trump has anything to hide there.

| There is no defamation, no deception nor disparagment, no 'malicious depiction'.

They literally chopped up his speech and altered the order of clips to change the meaning of what he said.

It was the definition of deception and malice. You are just a terrible person with a room temperature IQ.; 12/15/25, 9:26 PM
Gospace said...: I read multiple comments today how crazies armed with knives can't wound or kill multiple people in an attack. Voices of ignorance- as reported by- PBS!
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/tag/mass-stabbing

As far as armed guards at religious services, the Latin masses I occasionally attend as I have family that attends them, always have multiple armed parishioners. And I've been led to believe that's true of the vast majority of those service nationwide. Even where prohibited by law.

And armed worshipers is historically accurate. In colonial times men were REQUIRED to bring their muskets to Sunday services. Or any scheduled services. A bunch of families gathered together in one building- an ideal target for unfriendly tribes. If unarmed.; 12/15/25, 9:38 PM
Jupiter said...: "I’ve come to believe that Jewish communities should always have good people with guns in their midst, wherever they gather."
Well. They might just try disassociating themselves from the Zionists, AIPAC and ADL. Hmmmm ... maybe that isn't possible. Maybe the Zionists, AIPAC and ADL intentionally and explicitly advertise that every Jew is an ally, in whatever they do next. Sucks to be Jew.; 12/15/25, 9:49 PM
Jupiter said...: Ever heard of sayanim?; 12/15/25, 9:50 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: "What a shame and disgrace it was for our country that Jews could not go to school or to worship without the threat of attack and murder."

Yeah, well that's what happens when you let in people from all over the world. Most Jewish organizations have always supported immigration. Jews support open borders more than any ethnic group. So, that's one of the results.; 12/15/25, 9:51 PM
Jim at said...: -- the difference is that Trump jokes and laughs about the death of his political opponents. He laughs and jokes about it. So when people joke about the death of Charlie Kirk, you are good with that?

Is Trump openly celebrating Reiner's death?

No.

Can't say the same for your buddies on the left when it came to Charlie Kirk. They not only joked about it. They celebrated it. By the tens of thousands. And now they're shitting on his widow.

Again, the leftists getting the vapors over Trump's comments are the very same people who are still pissed off the assassin missed in Butler, PA.

There is no comparison, so stop trying to make one.; 12/15/25, 10:07 PM
Iman said...: kak’s wack lacks smack
and that’s a fac…………t; 12/15/25, 10:09 PM
Josephbleau said...: I just got new hearing aids with Bluetooth streaming. I now realize how great Blondie was. Respect the talent, not the content. Salute the rank, not the man.; 12/15/25, 10:13 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: Gad Saad made a salient point to a Fox host tonight, who continued to use the term “radical Islam” with regard to the killing of infidels. Muslims that kill infidels are not radicalized, they’re merely adherent to Islam.; 12/15/25, 10:17 PM
Big Mike said...: Australian PM Tony Albanese does not believe in the natural right of self defense.; 12/15/25, 10:37 PM
buwaya said...: Shouldnt Jupiter be investigated for adherence to ISIS or something?
A fellow traveller or agent of influence?
This is exactly what Mitrokhin described as their strategy with their Soviet equivalent patsies.; 12/15/25, 10:37 PM
Jupiter said...: "I now realize how great Blondie was."
When I met you in the restaurant ..; 12/15/25, 10:39 PM
William said...: Miscellaneous thought: I know the photo editors are picking and choosing, but they seem to have a great deal of photos where the Reiner kid looks deranged.......The senior Reiner seems to have had a great of over the top anger directed against Trump. Could it be that all that free form hostility and anger that you get when living with an addict got channeled into Trump hatred. No father wants to hate his kid. Trump was a safe place to direct it at......Yeah, addiction is an illness, but it's indistinguishable from evil.; 12/15/25, 11:28 PM
Jim at said...: Maybe if the left could actually blame Trump for Reiner's death, they wouldn't be so upset about what he said.; 12/16/25, 12:51 AM
Valentine Smith said...: Indistinguishable from evil. Is it? Great question. The addict doesn’t need the substance in his addiction to commit evil. For all we know, the son was sober or rather straight. The addiction certainly facilitates evil in its active form, but what causes the evil act in the addiction’s absence?; 12/16/25, 1:06 AM
Valentine Smith said...: For some reason, this all reminds me of a joke, I heard a long time ago. Alcohol and drug addiction are often lumped under the same umbrella. But there may be a difference with a distinction. The joke is that both an alcoholic and a drug addict will steal your wallet, only the drug addict will help you look for it.; 12/16/25, 1:22 AM
buwaya said...: The Bondi beach murderers seem to have flown to the Philippines shortly before their spree. Why? To meet someone? That seems likely. There are many possibilities. But very likely this was part of some coordinated plan.; 12/16/25, 1:45 AM
Saint Croix said...: They might just try disassociating themselves from the Zionists, AIPAC and ADL.

You think Jews are murdered because they are Zionists?

That's why Hitler killed 6,000,000 Jews, to stop the creation of Israel?

It's putting the cart before the horse. The hatred of Jews, and the Holocaust, preceded the creation of the state of Israel.

I think this whole "I don't hate Jews, just the Zionists" routine is a really obvious lie that "nice" civilized liberal people say to hide their hatred. I think many of these people are self-deluded. (Or Satan is deluding them). And they actually believe that they don't hate the Jews, just the Zionists. And then before you know it, they're bitching about Churchill and saying Hitler was misunderstood. They go through an entire rabbit hole of stupidity, all because they can't see how they are hating on the Jews.; 12/16/25, 2:40 AM
Saint Croix said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/16/25, 2:47 AM
Saint Croix said...: Rusty on another thread says The 13th Warrior is based on the life of Ahmad ibn Fadlan. This was an Islamic guy who traveled around the world and wrote about the Vikings he met. So that's cool. Crichton definitely based his hero on the guy. (The two share the same name). He took the culture clash stuff from Fadlan's writings.

But the spine of the movie is all Beowulf. Some other people tried to make a Beowulf movie and it sucks. Crichton was a genius.

The movie was directed by John McTiernan, who made Die Hard and Predator. I'm not kidding when I say that The 13th Warrior is Crichton's best movie, and McTiernan's best movie. They blew through the original budget and spent something like $160 million. And financially it was a big flop on release, with a bad trailer and no star power. But man, it's a great movie.; 12/16/25, 3:39 AM
john mosby said...: BG: " So many of the new recruits joined up once Trump was elected.... I don't think they will pay very much attention to what those senators have been saying."

The Seditious MCs weren't aiming their talk at the new recruits. They were addressing career officers who have gone thru changes of administration, who have seen people get court-martialed for doing things that used to be legal, who have seen Vindman almost bring down a President, and who survived Obama and Biden by at least parroting leftist doctrine, if not actually believing it. And most importantly, that generation have the sunk cost of years of service and the opportunity cost of having no other profession, so the price of doing the right thing is much higher than for a 20-year-old who can just take his GI Bill and leave. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 3:50 AM
john mosby said...: Jupiter: "They might just try disassociating themselves from the Zionists, AIPAC and ADL. Hmmmm ... maybe that isn't possible."

No, it's not possible. To follow up on St Croix, the generation of Jews Hitler killed was the most assimilated ever. Yet he saw that as even more dangerous than fiddling on the roof. He crafted laws to find and kill partially-ethnic Jews even if they never set foot in a synagogue or lit a menorah candle.

The people that want to kill Jews will kill them no matter what. There's no escape from being Jewish, even if you want to escape. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 3:55 AM
buwaya said...: 13th Warrior - Michael Crichtons novel "Eaters of the Dead", IIRC almost scene by scene. Highly recommended.; 12/16/25, 4:05 AM
john mosby said...: One benefit of a draft is that soldiers will tend to do the right thing because the military's career-oriented penalties have no effect on them. And the political pressure of all those draftee families back home limits the severity of the penalties. We only shot one guy for desertion in all WW2, Lt Calley did a small amount of time and then went back to managing his jewelry shop, etc.

Of course, soldiers' definition of "right" tends to mean "winning the battle and staying alive," which unfortunately is not elites' definition.

Look at all the stuff we did in WW2 that went utterly unremarked-upon and even celebrated in Saving Private Ryan, The Pacific, Band of Brothers, and Ken Burns. At the same time we were watching all that and praising the Greatest Generation, we were crucifying troops for instantaneous misjudgments that killed small numbers of the 'wrong' people.

Maybe now, social media can replicate the same type of pressure the draftee families had, so even President AOC would balk at court-martialing troops for doing Trump's bidding. But that presupposes the Left actually cares about winning elections. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 4:10 AM
john mosby said...: Buwaya: "The Bondi beach murderers seem to have flown to the Philippines shortly before their spree. Why? "

Yes, possible they went to confer with Abu Sayyaf Group or some other terrs. But also possible they went on Jihadi Rumspringa - a little burst of sin to take advantage of their upcoming martyrdom and escalator to paradise. They could have been banging their way through Subic or some such. See, eg, the 9-11 hijackers going to strip joints right before the crime. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 4:16 AM
Eva Marie said...: 13th Warrior - no star power? Antonio Banderas and Omar Sharif! Available to rent on Amazon Prime for $3.79. I just rented it. Thanks for the recommendation.; 12/16/25, 4:23 AM
Big Mike said...: And in other news, Sydney Sweeney took a lie detector test wheee she was asked whether her breasts were real. She answered affirmatively and the test administrator acknowledged that she was being truthful.; 12/16/25, 4:29 AM
Eva Marie said...: I looked up Michael Crichton - He had two children: a daughter, Taylor Anne Crichton, from his fourth marriage, and a son, John Michael Todd Crichton, born shortly after Crichton's death in 2008 to his fifth wife, Sherri Alexander. The birth of John Michael led to a legal battle over his inheritance, as he was not mentioned in the will but was protected by law as an omitted child.
“Crichton’s daughter, Taylor, initially opposed the claim, leading to a probate court battle. The court ultimately ruled in favor of the son, determining he was entitled to a share (estimates vary, often cited as around one-third or a substantial portion of the roughly $175–400 million estate).; 12/16/25, 4:34 AM
john mosby said...: Josephbleau: "I now realize how great Blondie was."

I always did like it when Mr Dithers kicked Dagwood in the butt. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 4:36 AM
Eva Marie said...: Chrichton was 6’9” proving tall guys get all the gals.; 12/16/25, 4:45 AM
Eva Marie said...: Chrichton also wrote and directed The GreatTrain Robbery (a heist movie!) with Donald Southerland available for free with ads on Tubi. I highly recommend Tubi. The ads are minimal, lots of good movies, and it’s free.; 12/16/25, 4:54 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: I was impressed by the volume of civility bullshit expressed on Rob Reiner’s behalf yesterday. Of course any of you Lefties could have advised Rob to stop being a total asshole any time over the past ten years but you didn’t. For an ideology that invented the concept of “hate speech” y’all are exceedingly slow to recognize that Leftists who spend so much energy hating one man are sick and making society sicker.; 12/16/25, 5:10 AM
Eva Marie said...: From The Wall Street Journal via CFP:
Chinese elites and billionaires who are going outside of China, where domestic surrogacy is illegal, to quietly have large numbers of U.S.-born babies.
Since U.S. court proceedings for surrogacies are usually private, often taking place without even a mention on the court’s public docket, oversight is limited.
Some Chinese parents, pay millions in surrogacy fees to hire women in the U.S. to help them build families of jaw-dropping size. Xu calls himself “China’s first father” and is known in China as a vocal critic of feminism. On social media, his company said he has more than 100 children born through surrogacy in the U.S.
The market has grown so sophisticated, experts say, that at times Chinese parents have had U.S.-born children without stepping foot in the country. A thriving mini-industry of American surrogacy agencies, law firms, clinics, delivery agencies and nanny services—even to pick up the newborns from hospitals—has risen to accommodate the demand, permitting parents to ship their genetic material abroad and get a baby delivered back, at a cost of up to $200,000 per child.; 12/16/25, 5:16 AM
rehajm said...: The capital market brief I’m reading this morning points out China accounts for 15 percent of global exports, more than the next two nations the US and Germany combined. No mention of their leadership in splooge export, by volume…; 12/16/25, 5:23 AM
Saint Croix said...: I think the top 3 New Wave acts are

The Police
Talking Heads
Blondie

I apparently overdosed on the Police when I was a kid, and I can't listen to them anymore.

Stop Making Sense remains the best concert movie I've ever seen.

And Blondie is fantastic. Did you know she sung a version of Ring of Fire? Dude! I love Johnny Cash but her cover is right up there.; 12/16/25, 5:38 AM
Saint Croix said...: Eva, I hope you like it! Not a girlie movie. I'll send you a check for $3.79 if it disappoints.; 12/16/25, 5:39 AM
rehajm said...: I’m just now watching Rachel Maddow talk about the ‘remarkably decentralized protests’. That ‘remarkably’ modifier is the tell it’s a lie. Exaggerated, extreme language is the tell…; 12/16/25, 5:59 AM
Eva Marie said...: Your $3.79 is safe. I’ll like any movie with Antonio Banderas; 12/16/25, 6:02 AM
buwaya said...: Conspiracy

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-16/bondi-gunmen-went-to-philippines-for-military-style-training/106148662

"Investigators are now examining the Akrams' ties to an international jihadist network, after discovering the pair travelled to Manila in early November, according to officials briefed on the investigation."; 12/16/25, 6:30 AM
Humperdink said...: lonejustice said: “ the difference is that Trump jokes and laughs about the death of his political opponents. He laughs and jokes about it”

An absolute lie. Trump never joked about the death of political opponents. I would be embarrassed to post this if I was you.; 12/16/25, 6:37 AM
Leland said...: Second Bondi hero helps disarm gunmen, only for police to shoot at him

Aussie police saw him going for the gun and they can’t have that in Australia. The locals might decide to protect themselves.; 12/16/25, 6:49 AM
Beasts of England said...: Although short-lived, I thought Missing Persons was one of the best new wave groups.; 12/16/25, 6:49 AM
Humperdink said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/16/25, 7:00 AM
Humperdink said...: Taking a cue from former President Jefferson Street Joe Biden, the Aussie Prime Minister pointed to right wing extremists for future terrorists attacks down under. Subsequently, it was reported MS-NOW offered him the coveted Joy Reid seat on the network upon his retirement.; 12/16/25, 7:18 AM
Humperdink said...: Now I’ve seen everything. I went to Walmart yesterday. At the entrance was the Red Kettle campaign with Salvation Army volunteer ringing the bell. Five feet away was a blue kettle, staffed by a purple haired volunteer smoking a joint, begging for donations for the Biden Presidential Bookmobile. Traffic was light.; 12/16/25, 7:41 AM
bagoh20 said...: "She answered affirmatively and the test administrator acknowledged that she was being truthful."

"...and they're spectacular."; 12/16/25, 7:41 AM
boatbuilder said...: The BBC could request documents, emails, messages, anything related to the insurrection. They just might want all the material Jack Smith had.
"There's a pony in here somewhere!"; 12/16/25, 7:57 AM
Breezy said...: Trying to understand… if Australia is so against gun ownership that they confiscated everyone’s guns, how did they miss this jihadi guy and his son? They had at least six weapons. Were the authorities afraid of being called racist, too?; 12/16/25, 7:57 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: Mike, @ 5:10 — I think this is exactly where people are talking past each other.

Civility at someone’s death isn’t an endorsement of everything they said or did while alive. It’s a long-standing norm that says death is not the moment to pathologize political disagreement or celebrate animosity. You can think Rob Reiner was wrong, obsessive, or even unpleasant — and still acknowledge that mocking a death crosses a line most leaders and societies try to maintain.

Criticizing a powerful public figure for their actions or rhetoric isn’t the same thing as “hating one man,” and it certainly isn’t a mental illness. If it were, political opposition itself becomes pathological — which would mean every democracy on earth is “sick.”

As for “hate speech,” that concept wasn’t invented to shield people from criticism. It was meant to address speech that targets groups for harm or exclusion — not speech that challenges a president’s behavior or policies. Collapsing those two things together shuts down discussion rather than clarifying it.

What made yesterday’s comparisons involving Charlie Kirk particularly troubling was the selective logic. It’s fair to acknowledge that many people viewed Kirk’s rhetoric as deliberately provocative and divisive — that assessment of his impact existed long before his death. But recognizing the effects of rhetoric is not the same as blaming someone for being murdered.

Reiner was a comedian, actor, and director who was outspoken politically.

Kirk was a political activist whose style was confrontational by design.

Neither deserved to die. Neither deserved mockery.

You can disagree completely with Reiner — many people did — without turning his death into a political insult. That restraint isn’t hypocrisy; it’s what separates disagreement from degradation.; 12/16/25, 8:03 AM
Leland said...: Civility Bullshit; 12/16/25, 8:13 AM
Leland said...: Trump is getting a new daughter-in-law. Junior asked the question, and she said "yes". Congratulations to the happy couple.; 12/16/25, 8:15 AM
boatbuilder said...: In fairness to Reiner, the insane "Russian Collusion" nonsense that he spouted was promulgated by a conspiracy of Obama Administration officials, CIA officers, FBI officers and press agents. None of whom have been properly held to account.
Did Reiner ever apologize or admit he was wrong? If so, he gets some respect.
I assume that the answer is "No,", but I am curious.; 12/16/25, 8:16 AM
boatbuilder said...: From the video I saw, an Aussie hero, unarmed, tackled an assassin, disarmed him, and then pointed the assassin's rifle at him in a threatening manner.
Have the Aussie authorities charged the hero with criminal possession and use of a gun yet?; 12/16/25, 8:20 AM
john mosby said...: Boatbuilder: "Have the Aussie authorities charged the hero with criminal possession and use of a gun yet?"

Which is why the hero didn't shoot the killer when he had the chance. Because he knew the courts wouldnt' buy the argument "I was stopping an imminent threat of death or GBH because the guy was going to run back to the other shooter, grab another gun, and keep killing."

So what happened? The guy ran back to the other shooter, grabbed another gun, and kept killing. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 8:29 AM
Kakistocracy said...: US unemployment rate hits four-year high of 4.6% ~ WSJ

Jobless level for November indicates weakening labour market

"Tuesday’s figure is likely to be revised, however, after Fed chair Jay Powell said job numbers were probably being overestimated by as much as 60,000 a month." 😳

If Trump can convince Americans that prices have gone down, he can certainly convince the unemployed that they actually have jobs.; 12/16/25, 8:30 AM
john mosby said...: RJW: "As for “hate speech,” that concept wasn’t invented to shield people from criticism."

Yeah it was. CC, JSM; 12/16/25, 8:31 AM
Beasts of England said...: ’As for “hate speech,” that concept wasn’t invented to shield people from criticism.’

It was invented for precisely that reason.; 12/16/25, 8:35 AM
Achilles said...: Ronald J. Ward said...

Reiner was a comedian, actor, and director who was outspoken politically.

Kirk was a political activist whose style was confrontational by design.

Neither deserved to die. Neither deserved mockery.

You can disagree completely with Reiner — many people did — without turning his death into a political insult. That restraint isn’t hypocrisy; it’s what separates disagreement from degradation.

I will happily compare Reiner's words to Kirk's words.

Lets start with:
"Donald Trump is committing Treason against The United States of America. He is aiding and abetting the enemy in The War against Isis and The Cyberwar against Russia. He has turned the world’s oldest Democracy into a wholly owned subsidiary of Vladimir Putin. GOP, WAKE UP!"

This was in response to Trump's decisions on Syria troop withdrawals and relations with Russia.

Find anything Kirk said that was that dishonest and evil.

Anything even fucking close. Rob Reiner was a complete piece of shit and only a douchebag like Chuck would defend him.; 12/16/25, 8:40 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: John M., interesting read today on the Kirk and Reiner hypocrisy at The Hill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5650172-assassination-charlie-kirk-implications/

To steal the last line; “That’s the thing about a race to the bottom: There is no bottom. You can always go lower.”; 12/16/25, 8:40 AM
Leland said...: It seems the blame for Reiner's death belongs to attending Conan's Christmas Party.; 12/16/25, 8:45 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: Achilles, you’re changing the standard mid-argument.

The question isn’t whether Reiner’s rhetoric was excessive, hyperbolic, or wrong. Reasonable people can — and did — criticize his language, including that statement. Political hyperbole exists on all sides, especially on social media.
The question is whether political speech you dislike justifies mocking someone’s death or attributing it to a “mental disease.” That’s a different threshold entirely.

As for your challenge: yes, it’s well documented that Kirk and others have made claims just as sweeping — accusing political opponents of treason, tyranny, destroying the Constitution, enslaving Americans, or orchestrating invasions. That rhetoric is commonplace in modern political activism. You may judge one set as more credible than another, but the form isn’t unique to Reiner.

And none of that means anyone “deserved to die” or deserved post-mortem ridicule.

You can call Reiner reckless, wrong, or inflammatory. You can call Kirk confrontational by design. But once death enters the picture, most societies draw a line. That line isn’t about left vs right — it’s about whether we treat death as a moment for score-settling or restraint.; 12/16/25, 8:47 AM
buwaya said...: It seems to me that rising unemployment is a more likely proximate risk than inflation, which is also Powells take on it. Thats why the Fed has been cutting interest rates.

The 60,000 a month figure is an estimate of the ongoing undercounting of job losses that dont show up in surveys, which has been going on for years. Its an acknowledgement of an inherent flaw in the survey metric.; 12/16/25, 8:50 AM
buwaya said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/16/25, 8:50 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: "Longstanding norms" are the exact vessel for Civility Bullshit. The "norm" now, Ron, is for leftists to cheer on death: they cheered Ashli Babbit, Charlie Kirk, the healthcare Exec. They cheered when Trump was shot and lamented the bullet had not done more. The VP candidate from 2024 openly wished to hear news of Trump's death.

Fuck you specifically, Ronny, for your civility bullshit enhancement here. Let me know when your side has restored "longstanding norms" and respected them for a dozen or so years, and then maybe I will consider caring about your stupid feelings.

No. No I won't. Just fuck off. Take your butt buddy chuck with you.; 12/16/25, 8:51 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Calls for civility in political speech are always bullshit. Even when directed at Trump. The Left has instructed us that everything is political. Hell, Hillary made it into a slogan. Even working out, we were instructed, is right wing.

Now that the left has knocked down all the longstanding norms where will you idiots hide?; 12/16/25, 8:55 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: Mike, you’re free to think civility is dead. I’m free to think cheering death and mocking it accelerates something ugly, not something strong.; 12/16/25, 9:00 AM
buwaya said...: On the other hand initial unemployment claims, which is a "harder" metric, are uncertain. End of year is a bad time to evaluate that. 2025 has been on the whole in the ballpark of 2023 and 2024.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/jobless-claims

The unemployment rate depends on an estimated denominator, workforce. Thats been iffy many times. Ben Bernanke (2009) admitted it was unreliable. Which is why the Fed established EMRATIO.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EMRATIO

EMRATIO has been falling through 2024 from a post -Covid recovery plateau in 2023. Which is why a lot of people were asking for interest rate cuts a year ago.; 12/16/25, 9:06 AM
Josephbleau said...: “ The 60,000 a month figure is an estimate of the ongoing undercounting of job losses that dont show up in surveys, which has been going on for years. It’s an acknowledgement of an inherent flaw in the survey metric.”

Although it is anathema to a statistician, in a perverse way, a flawed metric that is always flawed in the same way can still be informative.; 12/16/25, 9:07 AM
buwaya said...: The problem here is we dont know if it is a consistent error.; 12/16/25, 9:10 AM
Josephbleau said...: The feds “dual mandate” between inflation and unemployment guarantees that inflation and unemployment are never optimized, but just cycle 180 degrees out of phase and are a constant nuisance to the economy.; 12/16/25, 9:11 AM
narciso said...: The shutdown was an aberrant figure; 12/16/25, 9:29 AM
Kakistocracy said...: Although they may not admit it, Trump's base loves him *because* of things like his disgusting comments on Rob Reiner (not despite them).

That's not to say this might turn some swing voter types off. But most people who support him either love that he does this (his real base).... Or just think that the left is worse for whatever reason (Free Press reader types).; 12/16/25, 9:30 AM
Iman said...: Federal government employee headcount reduction. Long time coming and needed.; 12/16/25, 9:31 AM
Iman said...: The Left is worse for every reason, shitbird.; 12/16/25, 9:32 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: Buwaya & Joesph, I could give a long-winded breakdown of your economic assessment but it all boils down to two words — excuses, excuses.; 12/16/25, 9:38 AM
Iman said...: The murder of the Reiners after a Conan Christmas party shines a different light on the “you killed my father” bit Conan had with Will Arnett and Jason Bateman.; 12/16/25, 9:39 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Mike, you’re free to think civility is dead.

Ron assumes meaning and words I did not say, as leftists always do. Civility is a wonderful lubricant that allows society to function. I practice it and I benefit from it. But calls for civility in politics, the subject of my prior posts, are always insincere for all the reasons I already gave. Only an asshole like Ron or Mark or chuck could make the leap from what I actually said to what Ron falsely states as my position. Incivility, I will add, is largely practiced by the Left in word and deed, which is why blue cities freak out over normal law enforcement removing rapists and murderers.

Your side cheers death Ron. Not ours. Even Trump didn't cheer, merely jeered. But at least he said it was sad. That's 1000 times more grace than your side is willing to allow the Kirk widow to enjoy.; 12/16/25, 9:45 AM
Iman said...: Back away from the shovel, Ward the Cleaver!; 12/16/25, 9:52 AM
narciso said...: Theres no pony in their; 12/16/25, 9:53 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: Mike, I said mocking or cheering death is corrosive — regardless of who does it. If you believe I personally cheered death or excused it, quote me. Otherwise, you’re debating a caricature.; 12/16/25, 9:57 AM
Kakistocracy said...: U-6 came in at 8.7%, up from 8%.

That certainly caught my attention.

And the 10Y yield is rising; the curve is steepening on the news. Interesting.

My first reaction on reading the headline: can we believe any figures coming out of the Trump’s administration now?; 12/16/25, 10:10 AM
Sweetie said...: If you believed that Trump was a Russian agent you can believe anything.; 12/16/25, 10:41 AM
Ronald J. Ward said...: I’m reading where ICE is now arresting 18 year olds UACs, or “unaccompanied alien children” when they show up at USCIS or immigration court to continue a petition they filed as a minor. Because of the time window, ICE identifies them as someone without lawful status and away they go.

Yep, worse of the worse.; 12/16/25, 10:52 AM
Kakistocracy said...: Trump: “The economy is doing great under me”

Also Trump: “It’s Biden’s fault for this mess”

The Trump sycophants and spinmasters can twist the jobs numbers all they want to fool people, but here is one simple number they can’t change: the US unemployment rate is now the highest it’s been in 4 years.; 12/16/25, 11:06 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Well, another jobs report unexpectedly higher than predicted, 30% higher than predicted. After the huge increase in 3rd quart that's another data point that the economy continues to expand despite democrat efforts to reverse it. Even the WSJ, long time Trump skeptics, had to admit every doomsday prediction experts made about tariffs were wrong, and Trump's predictions were correct. Sure they hold onto a hope that long-term trends will prove that consumers were hit hard, but they are unable to find evidence of it yet. No, in fact exports picked up so much we achieved a huge reduction in the trade deficit, a 5-year high not seen since...Trump's first term. Turns out other countries lowered their tariffs to comply and like magic we sold more goods and services to them.

I wonder if leftist economists can even tell time correctly.; 12/16/25, 11:08 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: I read Kak:

Trump: “The economy is doing great under me”
Also Trump: “It’s Biden’s fault for this mess”

Brilliant analyses IF the facts are conveniently left out. The economy is doing great under Trump as it did last time and being able to point to a metric here or there that contradicts the overwhelming direction (growth) does not change the truth of Trump's statement.

Because the second statement is where our kakistrophic commenter elides the truth by omitting the word "inflation." Because of course the enormous burden Biden saddled us with by shrinking the dollar's value 20% in such a short time cannot be alleviated overnight. Not even by a good president like Trump. And yes, we are going to carry the bulk of that inflation forward. Except: real wages have gone up, which is the BEST way to fight inflation, and transportation costs are heading down quickly, which is the fastest way to reduce fresh grocery prices, a greater percentage of which are transportation cost-dependent. ALL costs went up during Bidenflation. SOME costs are coming down now, and wages increasing, so the solution is in process. Bet on growth.; 12/16/25, 11:17 AM
narciso said...: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828483401069494272/1450536081085694143/Screenshot_2025-12-16_at_10.11.55_AM.png?ex=6942e47f&is=694192ff&hm=992d17295a6adcca6a456400aea7c821975785d2183283395f74c84ebde236c2&; 12/16/25, 11:17 AM
narciso said...: More of that civility; 12/16/25, 11:20 AM
Kakistocracy said...: The US economy is in a hiring recession. Almost no jobs have been added since April.

Wage gains are slowing.

710,000 more people are unemployed now versus November 2024.; 12/16/25, 11:22 AM
narciso said...: Cant count or read better luck next time rich; 12/16/25, 11:29 AM
buwaya said...: Real wages are up
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q; 12/16/25, 11:29 AM
Kakistocracy said...: Trump has never let facts get in the way of his delusions. I'm sure he will restructure statistical agencies the same way he organized the accounting of his businesses.

Hope US economic statistics outperform Trump's medical checks ...; 12/16/25, 11:42 AM
boatbuilder said...: I wonder if leftist economists can even tell time correctly.
Twice a day.
Although for them it's always time for...more socialism! So no, they cannot.; 12/16/25, 12:24 PM
Kakistocracy said...: “The US unemployment rate is now up by 1.2 percentage points from its trough 30 months ago. We have never seen that kind of increase without the economy already being in a recession.” ~ Schwab; 12/16/25, 1:14 PM
Iman said...: Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act and it’s attendant printing money and injecting it into “play” caused/was the inflation.

And the reduction of federal government employees is long overdue.; 12/16/25, 1:52 PM
Ronald J. Ward said...: Iman said...
Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act and its attendant printing money and injecting it into “play” caused/was the inflation.

I don’t know if facts have any relevance in your world but there are two indisputable realities that spoils your nonsense.

One is that inflation had peaked before the IRA became law. The other is that there is no language in the bill dictating anything about printing money.; 12/16/25, 2:05 PM
Ronald J. Ward said...: To the above Trump boot lickers, what’s happening in this imaginary world is some belief or sales pitch that the economic storm is over when in fact it’s in the early brewing stage.

Tariffs + labor shortages + safety net cuts (OBBB) = compounding effects. All are in the early stages.

Each factor individually raises costs or strains the economy; together, they amplify pressure on households.

Real wages aren’t uniform

Even if some wages rise, the net effect on lower- and middle-income families is still negative when adjusted for rising prices and reduced benefits.

Voters don’t have to see charts and selective data to know what they’re getting paid and how much they’re paying for dolls and groceries.; 12/16/25, 2:23 PM
Saint Croix said...: I thought Missing Persons was one of the best new wave groups.

I'm a big fan of them! Not enough hits, but yeah. She has a really strange/cool voice.; 12/17/25, 1:31 AM
Rusty said...: I like when the usual suspects attempt to wax profound on economics. When they make predictions I make money just doing the opposite. Keep it up guys. You're making my retirement quite pleasant.; 12/17/25, 8:31 AM