From "'We've never seen this before': Trump's drug war looks like a real war" (Axios).
The attack marked the first time a suspected "go-fast" drug-running boat was destroyed by a military missile, according to officials and drug-war experts. "There's more where that came from," Trump said in announcing the strike. All other details of the shocking, caught-on-video missile attack are classified, officials said....
What happened Tuesday was "a murder anywhere in the world," Colombia's president, Gustavo Petro, wrote on X. "We have been capturing civilians who transport drugs for decades without killing them. Those who transport drugs are not the big narcos, but the very poor, young people from the Caribbean and the Pacific."...
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199 comments:
Clear and Present Danger.
George "Fentanyl" Floyd syndrome... [Black] Lives Matter
The enemy of all mankind.
And the delivered drugs have been killing the young and poor of this country for an equivalent number of decades.
With no end in sight.
Honestly I'm the absence of cooperation - real and effective cooperation - of the governments of the countries where the drugs originate*, I'm at a loss as to how to combat the drug traffickers. But I'll admit that this development makes me uneasy because of the possibility of imperfect foreknowledge, and I wish we knew more.
* I know that it's the price of your life to act against the cartels in some countries. And I know that many government officials in those countries are given the horrible choice of "you and your family die horribly" versus "you're on the take and forever compromised."
Maybe now the very poor, young people from the Caribbean and the Pacific will think twice about running drugs to the US.
Leftists do not care about Fentanyl flowing in and killing US citizens and children.
How can any drug cartel be eliminated without some form of physical coercion?
The destroyed drug boat was warned to stop several times.
About time!
US Dems hardest hit. Coke prices going up!
We have been capturing civilians who transport drugs for decades without killing them
Decades, you say? What lesson should we draw from that?
Biden protected the drug dealers and certainly got paid for it.
The police force in John Carpenter's "Escape from New York" is the United States Police Force (USPF)... The USPF is depicted as a tyrannical force, serving the dictator president and responsible for both patrolling the prison's borders and subduing any escape attempts by its dangerous inmates.
Just to underscore how bad-ass Trump is...
The USPF would fire a warning shot first!
Please pee in a cup Mr. Petro. Every city that tests its sewer water for residual drugs knows that many locals are using. The drug users/voters don't want the price of their habit to rise.
Those who transport drugs are not the big narcos, but the very poor, young people from the Caribbean and the Pacific."
Once again, we'll see their wages go up because of Trump. And again, that pisses-off the globalists.
"We could've got any space cadet to do that... $50 bucks!"
I am totally unmoved by the poverty-motivated criminal defense. It's unmitigated bullshit and has been even when Victor Hugo made a fortune using it. Jean Valjean wasn't at the wheel of that drug boat, dreaming of the baguette he'd receive for the delivery, just another greedy career criminal.
Those who transport drugs are not the big narcos, but the very poor, young people from the Caribbean and the Pacific."...
1)The smugglers know what they're doing and it's results. They don't care.
2) I don't believe the critics of this attack would be any less vocal if Trump had targeted a "big narco" in his mansion or on his yacht or whatever.
What was it they called Soleimani after Trump killed him in a similar way? Some kind of scholar or something?
This is a modern version of the US Marines and the Navy going after pirates. Weren't they sent by Jefferson?
Obama droned a US citizen. Crickets from the left.
This is a burden on the supply chain, and a tax on illicit drug suppliers and consumers.
As the tax increases, the Fentanyl etc manufacturers will have to provide a livable wage and affordable care to attract labor that does not relish abortive ideation.
They were asked to stop. Multiple times.
Now the next time we ask about to stop, maybe it will stop.
United Nations Charter, particularly Articles 2(4) and 51:
Article 2(4):
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."
Simply put: Nations can’t go around using military force against each other whenever they want. The only exceptions are self-defense if they’re attacked, or if the UN Security Council approves it. This applies everywhere, including international waters.
The International Court of Justice clarified in Nicaragua v. U.S. (1986) that arming or attacking groups in another region is a breach of Article 2(4), even if the action isn’t aimed directly at a government.
Labeling a group a “terrorist organization” doesn’t grant wartime authority; otherwise, any state could declare a gang or cartel “terrorists” and start using military strikes instead of law enforcement.
This is why legal experts are saying the strike could qualify as an extrajudicial killing and potentially a war crime under international law.
So in reality, Trump can now add “war criminal” to his resume.
Bob Boyd said...
"Obama droned a US citizen. Crickets from the left."
In one of the very few positive things I've ever said about Obama, that US citizen was actively engaged in combat against the US. Arresting and trying him wasn't a viable option. I have no problem with active combatants being killed. In WWII, there were Americans of German descent who "answered the call" and fought for Nazi Germany. Many of those were killed. Boo hoo. The same applies for narco traffickers.
"Quaestor said...
I am totally unmoved by the poverty-motivated criminal defense."
Same. The overwhelming majority of people would not steal or commit a serious crime like that even if in poverty or dire situations. It is the people who don't view things like that as inherently morally objective decisions between right and wrong but instead subjective calculations between risk and reward who try to justify crimes using this logic. They then try to give it the patina of morality by using some social-utilitarian bullshit so they can try to avoid punishment when caught. I assume those that parrot those same arguments but they themselves have not committed the crime are the same immoral types who would justify their own criminal actions if they thought they could get away with it.
So in reality, Trump can now add “war criminal” to his resume.
I encourage you to leave the United States and join the United Nations. Then you can join the army of the United Nations and go try to arrest Trump.
Nobody wants you here. If you don’t like this country, get the fuck out.
RJW: “ This is why legal experts are saying the strike could qualify as an extrajudicial killing and potentially a war crime under international law.”
Trump is reading that and saying “prosecute me, baby!” He has learned how to turn a show trial back on itself. He would love having Ted Cruz represent us in the ICJ against polished Europeans in gowns standing up for narcos. Either verdict, Trump wins. RR, JSM
As much as I detest the statement, the position is largely accurate:
Drugs flow into the U.S. because people use them.
Now, I certainly hope POTUS will *target* illegal drug users. No b.s., either: they use long before they become one of the Left’s pet victim, I.e., addicts.
Shun those people, punish them harshly, make it unAmerican to use drugs that only enter your veins thru death and bloodshed. No more city alleys with living zombies dying by inches. And no more narcan. You use, you lose.
Seems like a very good move from a policy standpoint. I have some questions about the legality of it, but I assume the State Dept identified some kind of legal predicate for it and it wasn't totally ad hoc.
Worst comes to worst, Trump declares himself a woman and gets incarcerated for life with a bunch of Yugoslav she-wolves. Win-win. RR, JSM
“So in reality, Trump can now add “war criminal” to his resume.”
But first, in reality, the entity that used to comment here as “Chuck” should register now as “Liar.”
It's the novelty. It's less of a murder each time it happens.
As "black lives matter" more than political posturing and personal profiteering, the people will abandon Fentanyl etc supply and consumption, and "learn to code" or some other viable, productive outlet. Whatever happened to the Somali pirates aborted, sequestered off the coast of Africa by Russian forces?
"Ronald J. Ward said...
-UN charter
-ICC
-War Criminal"
There is no such thing as international law. Nations have laws that they enact through their own legislative process. The US is only bound by the laws of the United States. The Supreme law of the land is the US Constitution. If the US Constitution grants the US President the power to use the US military to deal with foreign threats, no US law which is beneath the US Constitution can bind him. However while there is no such thing as International Law there are international political concerns which can and should affect a President's judgment on these matters.
Like terrorists, they'll just add women and children to the crew.
"United Nations Charter, particularly Articles 2(4) and 51:
Article 2(4):
'All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.'
"Simply put: Nations can’t go around using military force against each other whenever they want. The only exceptions are self-defense if they’re attacked, or if the UN Security Council approves it. This applies everywhere, including international waters."
Not sure how attacking a boat that presumably wasn't flying the flag of any country, in international waters, could be regarded as in violation of another country's territorial integrity.
Shared responsibility is a tariff on the illicit drug manufacturers that forces them to address labor arbitrage schemes that made their business profitable with progressive consumption.
“Donya, is Thursday. Is my turn for fucking. Lie down.”
“Alright, Nadia, alright. Let me get my Viagra out of the loose cinder block. Come back in an hour and a half, okay?”
“Da, da. I need my little mushroom, Donya!” RR, JSM
It's the weakest link in the cycle, President Petro. When they realize the risks of drug-running are too great, they will be asking why there is no place for them in Colombian industries and service. And they will look at you. And then.....
No wonder you oppose this decisive action.
Planned Piratehood (PP) is a human rite and socially progressive. Just do it?
---- the entity that used to comment here as “Chuck” should register now as “Liar.” [Meade]
The best part is when he signs in again to compliment himself. A most entertaining troll. Too bad so many commenters still think he wants to debate.
Achilles said...
They were asked to stop. Multiple times.
Now the next time we ask about to stop, maybe it will stop.
9/4/25, 10:07 AM
As of 10:23AM, I’m not finding anything to verify they were asked to stop or of any communication.
As far as your second rant, this isn’t about wanting to leave the country or arrest anyone. It’s about understanding the international legal framework that governs military actions, even by the U.S., and discussing whether those rules were followed. Apparently, they were not.
Vault Dweller @ 10:16AM
Well, not quite, international law does exist. It’s made up of treaties, conventions, and customary norms that countries agree to follow. While the U.S. Constitution governs domestic law, that doesn’t mean the U.S. can—and does—accept binding obligations under international law, like the UN Charter and laws of war. These rules don’t disappear just because enforcement is more political or complex than domestic courts. They set legal standards for how nations conduct military operations, even in international waters.
Mr Wood is a joke. And clear evidence of why the global Elites are both ignored today and crying in their souvlaki.
The logic of attacking a drug-producing country is fundamentally flawed. At best, such measures may disrupt production and exports in the short term, but supply chains adapt quickly, and as long as demand persists, drugs will continue to flow. Trump overlooks a crucial truth: the root of America’s drug crisis lies less abroad than at home, in the persistent domestic demand for narcotics…
Oh, bullshit! Drugs and their purveyors have been terrorizing this nation for decades. The only difference between any other nation dealing with drug smugglers and this event is that there was no demand for surrender. Dark money paves the way for drug trafficking. Trump doesn’t need it. Too bad!
A good start. The next stage is to have Congress issue letters of marque and reprisal that allow private citizens to go hunting drug-smugglers. Good jobs for retired military and restless outdoor-types and would massively increase the costs of the cartels via unpredictability.
"add women and children"
Human shields or equitable inclusion didn't save the Germans, Japanese et al. It didn't save Americans when the government hunted them in farmhouses, cabins, etc.
“Those who transport drugs are not the big narcos, but the very poor, young people from the Caribbean and the Pacific.”
I’m sure that a lot of the rank and file German soldiers that my German-American uncles were killing in WWII were “very poor, young people” too.
My son was killed by fentanyl while self medicating for a noninsured back injury. If they kill all the drug runners trying to enter the US it will not be soon enough.
Bob Boyd said...
“What was it they called Soleimani after Trump killed him in a similar way? Some kind of scholar or something?”
We should call the drug runners “austere unlicensed pharmacists”.
“Dark money paves the way for drug trafficking.“
The BBC telling me on my ride home that Ecuador ships 70% of the world's cocaine.
We are bombing open boats because the VZ traffickers are small enough to harass without disturbing the banks handling all that money laundering.
Petro can invite the US military in to take out the cartels in his country. We will be willing to pay him to offset the loss of money he’s getting from the cartels. A win for both sides
Too bad district court judges shut off reasonable avenues of dealing with illegal immigrants and their illegal imports. If you keep insisting only a tyrant can govern this way what do you THINK will happen, Leftists!
Also, given how quickly Hegseth declassified the video you KNOW they have the intercepts ("tapes" as Trump called them) ready as soon as lefties get too far out on that limb.
Then it'll be transcript time and another 99:1 issue on which Democrats will have declared themselves on the wrong side. (See Van Hollen, D-whocares).
Sounds like a 's**t or get of the pot' moment. Do you want to put a stop to deadly drugs or not?
As of 10:23AM, I’m not finding anything to verify they were asked to stop or of any communication.
Nobody cares what you were unable to find.
As far as your second rant, this isn’t about wanting to leave the country or arrest anyone. It’s about understanding the international legal framework that governs military actions, even by the U.S., and discussing whether those rules were followed. Apparently, they were not
Nobody cares about rules of the UN or any of your other stupid globalist bullshit.
This is the United States. If you are on a boat full of drugs you are shipping to the US from Venezuela in international waters you are volunteering to fight the US navy as far as we are concerned.
If you want to live under international law go live in another country. We don’t need or want you here.
Just an old country lawyer: Me, also. And I agree with you.
Anyway, if we started bombing the factories in Mexico and Venezuela in which fentanyl is made, what exactly are those countries going to do about it? Send human waves of released criminals into our country? Scam huge quantities of taxpayer money and send it to the home countries? Smuggle more drugs? I guess we should be careful, though, or Venezuela might declare war on us. No one wants to fight the mighty Venezuelan military, not to mention the terrifying war-machine that is the Mexican army.
Fentanyl has killed more young Americans than the Vietnam War. The countries facilitating its manufacture and smuggling are already at war with us. It's time we recognized that and acted accordingly.
The war on drugs: failing for 50 years and counting. I'm sure more guns and killing will fix it though.
Kakistocracy said...
The logic of attacking a drug-producing country is fundamentally flawed. At best, such measures may disrupt production and exports in the short term, but supply chains adapt quickly, and as long as demand persists, drugs will continue to flow. Trump overlooks a crucial truth: the root of America’s drug crisis lies less abroad than at home, in the persistent domestic demand for narcotics…
The best way to solve any problem is always by using multiple methods.
Trump is doing the most to solve this crisis through bringing manufacturing back to the country by reducing regulations and raising taxes on imports.
If we overlook your stupidity we see that your problem is that you oppose everything we are trying to do which leads to the obvious conclusion you want the drug crisis to continue.
This action against the narco-terrorism speed boat would have been perfectly fine if there was a wedding party aboard
Achilles, your repeated use of ‘nobody’ and ‘we’ is a classic rhetorical tactic meant to claim broad consensus and moral authority—consensus and authority that, frankly, you haven’t demonstrated.
Beyond that, your main strategy seems to be insulting me. But for an insult to land, I’d have to respect your opinion—and I don’t.
I'm not comfortable with the military blasting a boat in international waters. There are a lot of ways that could go wrong, but, that's where we are. Globalists and international law seem to work against Western civilization, or at least against it's citizens.
As long as President Trump is protecting America, he gets a lot of latitude. That's only because for decades, our leadership has been working against us.
remember back when President O'Bama used to order Hellfire Missile strikes on American citizens that he wanted dead?
That was ALL OKAY though.. right? i mean, Right?
Howard said...
"This action against the narco-terrorism speed boat would have been perfectly fine if there was a wedding party aboard"
i'm sorry, but it Still irks me, when i find myself agreeing with Howard.. but, there you go; here we are
Very poor young people with fast boats.
Achilles wrote: “Trump is doing the most to solve this crisis through bringing manufacturing back to the country by reducing regulations and raising taxes on imports.”
🚨The Venezuelan cartel Tren de Aragua has struck a deal with the Trump administration where the president and his family will receive 10% of the cartel’s stock of cocaine and other illegal drugs.
Warren Buffett: "Only invest in industries you understand."
Don Jr: "I know what my next business will be"
Rocco said...
"I’m sure that a lot of the rank and file German soldiers that my German-American uncles were killing in WWII were “very poor, young people” too."
my dad spend about a year back in the early '50s, firing 105mm howitzer shells at "very poor, young people" in Korea.
WHY? because the President TOLD him to.
important thing to remember:
you're just as dead if you're killed in a police action as in a real war
Ask the typical Chinese Citizen how he or she feels about the British supplying Opium to China during the 19th Century.
RJW, read the room. No one who is not already inclined to agree with you on this issue will be persuaded by your appeals to international institutions. To the contrary, using them as authorities undermines their legitimacy in the eyes of many.
Regarding those institutions. They were founded as civilizing institutions designed to hold barbarians to more civilized standards by the civilized world. Then progressives like you captured those institutions and turned them 180 degrees into institutions designed to be used by progressives and barbarians to destroy the order found in the civilized world.(the Israel-Gaza war, for example). Because progressives hate the west in general and the USA specifically.
The rues/"laws" of those international institutions are subordinate the US constitution and laws whether the USA is a signatory or not. IOW, nor enforceable on us unless we chose to allow it.
Evict the UN from NYC, kick out all of the UN delegates and staff. Withdraw from the ICJ.
If you're interested in a productive exchange, make a sincere moral argument that you can prove you've applied consistently. Or explain why the action harms the interests of the US and its citizens,
Very poor young people with fast boats.
That kind of boat goes for six figures minimum. The one that got blown up looked like maybe half a million new.
I saw the video. I heard the statement that there were innocent people on the boat. I told my wife that there might have been, if one of the drug traffickers had brought along his 8 year old daughter on a "bring your kid to work" day. Otherwise, not so much.
The war on drugs: failing for 50 years and counting. I'm sure more guns and killing will fix it though.
Singapore uses guns and killing quite enthusiastically against drug smugglers, and has a minuscule fraction of the problem we have.
It’s about understanding the international legal framework that governs military actions
To hell with the "international legal framework" fiction.
What was it they called Soleimani after Trump killed him in a similar way? Some kind of scholar or something?
"Austere Koranic scholar", I believe.
You can't hate the media enough.
Does anyone have a link showing there was a warning prior to engagement?
I doubt they were warned. What I do know is that if it comes to light that they were not warned all of the people that told us that they were worn we'll say it doesn't matter but they weren't worn.
Trump wants dearly to designate everything as a violent crime in action, an assault on the US, a war/i> against us in process so he can justify loosing our military forces upon all and sundry...with the ultimate "enemies" here--withing our borders, across the American landscape. Donny, who dearly wants a Nobel Peace Prize, thinks he can get it by producing the "peace" of a nation subjugated under the boots of our own forces.
It is rather concerning, to consider that tens of thousands of people are cruising around in boats all the time. How exactly does the military know which ones it's OK to obliterate with munitions that cost more than the boats do?
I'm annoyed by the format glitch up top. I can't figure how to delete and repost the comment.
No warning shot was fired, which is a big and huge "So what?" The boat was in international waters. A warship gave it an order "Heave to!" or it's equivalent. When a warship- or coast guard vessel- of any nation gives an order to a civilian vessel to "Heave to!" it does so. If it doesn't- it's either a pirate vessel or enemy vessel. In either case- it's a legitimate target and can be fired upon and sunk. Don't even need to determine which it is either.
Pics available indicate it wasn't flying a flag, and with 4 outboard motors- wasn't displaying name and homeport on the stern. In international waters- that makes it a stateless vessel. Meaning any warship or coast guard vessel of any nation can stop it. Or order it to stop and destroy it if it doesn't.
Now if they had stopped- and the crew taken into custody- and drugs recovered- are the crewmembers criminals or pirates? Pirates have far fewer rights. Summary court martial and hanging at sea.
This is the inevitable consequence of the long term erosion around the definition of terrorism. Drug running is criminal activity and now it’s being responded to with extrajudicial murder. How long now until such ‘terrorism’ is being found in US cities and responded to the same way? My guess is not too long.
Testes One two three
"We have been capturing civilians who transport drugs for decades without killing them."
Yeah, how's that working out...?
To paraphrase Petro - "We have been doing this thing for decades and it hasn't worked. Let's keep doing just that."
Ronald J. Ward said...
Achilles, your repeated use of ‘nobody’ and ‘we’ is a classic rhetorical tactic meant to claim broad consensus and moral authority—consensus and authority that, frankly, you haven’t demonstrated.
Beyond that, your main strategy seems to be insulting me. But for an insult to land, I’d have to respect your opinion—and I don’t.
The only point you tried to make was that Trump didn’t win the election.
That is a rather stupid argument.
We who are part of the coalition that won the election doesn’t want the US subordinate to “International Law.”
Since you are the party of drone strikes on wedding parties we are very happy to have you continue to argue that we should follow international law and to keep letting drug dealers ship drugs here.
Please make many ads about that. Please.
I wonder how much money from the drug cartels ends up in DNC coffers. After all, they have extensive expertise when it comes to laundering cash and no party has done more to enable and enrich the cartels than Biden did the last four years. If I was a drug kingpin I know what party I would be supporting.
“But for an insult to land, I’d have to respect your opinion—and I don’t.”
Yup, consider the source.
Howard said...
Does anyone have a link showing there was a warning prior to engagement?
I doubt they were warned. What I do know is that if it comes to light that they were not warned all of the people that told us that they were worn we'll say it doesn't matter but they weren't worn.
The drones that fire those missiles are not subtle. You can see them. They are big and i not as far away as you think.
Also boats on open sea in international waters have requirements for radios and beacons for emergency response. There are channels that you are supposed to monitor. The boat they were in was a solid 6 figure boat. They should have had a radio and gps beacon.
If you are speeding between Venezuela and the US in a boat without a radio or gps beacons it might be tough to hear the warnings.
That doesn’t mean they weren’t warned.
Inga said...
“But for an insult to land, I’d have to respect your opinion—and I don’t.”
Yup, consider the source.
2 idiots in a loving embrace circling the bowl together.
Inga had a brief burst of enthusiasm when Gemini helped her write some posts and put some big words together and is sad it didn’t actually make her smarter.
RJW can’t seem to understand how to read and comprehend arguments much less rebut them so he whines when people point out his obvious limitations.
I will say it again. Please take the side of gang members in speed boats running drugs into the country. Please keep citing international law.
Gaddamn those Barbary Pirates! So Thomas Jefferson was wrong to create the United States navy?
Asking for a friend.
Thanks Rusty for reminding us all why it was old TJ founded the Navy. Who would think there would still be Muslim pirates 250 years later? That's what "soft power" got us.
Like terrorists, they'll just add women and children to the crew.
I didn't think of that possibility... here
@bushman - narco money maybe not found in DNC coffers, yet. But definitely in the coffers of the AZ Dems, and in the pockets of the AZ Governor and AG, both Dems, and both installed through significant election fraud.
I wonder how much those "very poor, young" people or their bosses have to hand over to Maduro for the privilege of departing Venezuela to smuggle drugs into the US.
I also wonder why eleven guys were in that boat. Wouldn't it make more sense to have two-three guys in it, with more waiting on our shores to unload it ?
Unless, of course, those extra guys were drug gang members being smuggled into the country as well.
Most Americans will reject limp-wristed assertions about internationlal law forbidding what Trump ordered. If there's no other way to stop drug smuggling than to destroy the vehicles, with their crew and passengers being collateral damage, sobeit.
In war, we target ships, tanks, airplanes....those in them are
just casualties.
gilbar said...
“remember back when President O'Bama used to order Hellfire Missile strikes on American citizens that he wanted dead?
That was ALL OKAY though.. right? i mean, Right?”
Well, remember that Americans (of any hue) fall below foreign brown migrants (in speedboats) in the left’s hierarchy.
Hassayamper said...
“That kind of boat goes for six figures minimum. The one that got blown up looked like maybe half a million new.”
New ad on Facebook Marketplace: Speedboat for sale. Cheap. No shipping - bring your own trailer. Some assembly required.
Young people aren’t fools and those boats are expensive. Blow up a few and there won’t be any more.
"we've never seen this before..."
The "war on drugs" goes back to 1971.
I inhabit a strange world now, because I’ve experienced fentanyl. I was rushed to the ER in extreme pain by ambulance a couple of months ago and the paramedic administered fentanyl by IV. Instant relief and ecstacy. You’ll excuse me for saying that it’s one hell of a drug. When I was admitted to the hospital, they switched me to morphine, and it was nowhere near as effective. I asked several doctors why the switch. They said fentanyl is administered in such tiny doses in comparison to morphine that it’s considered dangerous to use. Even for medical personnel. While I’m a Trump supporter, I’m dubious that a War on Drugs against fentanyl can succeed. It can be smuggled in very small packages worth millions. Maybe the fight against precursor chemical can be effective, but I doubt it. Maybe Trump knows better. I hope so.
Wasn’t the boat flagged “Tren de Aragua?”
“ United Nations Charter, particularly Articles 2(4) and 51:
Article 2(4):
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."”
Do you even read what you post? The destruction of that boat was done in International Waters, which means that it did NOT violate the territorial integrity nor the political independence of Venezuela. Were the drug runners flying their flag? Of course not.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"Thanks Rusty for reminding us all why it was old TJ founded the Navy. Who would think there would still be Muslim pirates 250 years later? That's what "soft power" got us."
Well, drug runners but the concept is the same. Protecting Americans.
"Wasn’t the boat flagged “Tren de Aragua?”"
It was written on the bow. In very small letters. And only on one side.
What happened Tuesday was "a murder anywhere in the world," Colombia's president, Gustavo Petro, wrote on X.
Yes, it is
Just like the drug dealers who this hack supports.
"We have been capturing civilians who transport drugs for decades without killing them.
Which means that approach is completely ineffective, since the drug dealing keeps on going on.
OTOH, I bet if we get an 80% kill rate on the people bringing drugs into the US, most of the other 20% will find a different one of work
Bruce Hayden said...
Do you even read what you post? The destruction of that boat was done in International Waters, which means that it did NOT violate the territorial integrity nor the political independence of Venezuela
Thank you Bruce, you beat me to it.
If your'e in international waters, your'e fair game for any government. That's the way it works, children
"The law of the Sea" (UNCLOS) while not a sighner the US generally subscribes to its tenants.
"Navigation Rights:
.
It protects the right of innocent passage for foreign ships through a coastal state's territorial waters, ensuring they can pass without causing harm to the coastal state's peace, good order, or security"
In case RJW had any questions.
Like terrorists, they'll just add women and children to the crew.
So?
US Gov't doesn't have to share the video.
Blow up the boats carrying women and children. Then backtrack them, and blow up the place that launched them (that will be a violation of "international law", oh well, do it any way). Then figure out someone who was higher up in the chain, and bomb his home, making sure to kill his entire family.
The tactic will quickly end
“I inhabit a strange world now, because I’ve experienced fentanyl.”
So has my partner. She has had a large number of back surgeries, over the last two decades. Afterwards, she is put first on Dilaudid (hydromorphone), and morphine. But one time her spine surgeon went in through her skull to get to her cervical vertebrae. And she got a small number of fentanyl patches, followed by some pills. Much more potent than the Dilaudid and morphine. He trusted her, after all those decades of surgeries, not to abuse the fentanyl. And, indeed, he gets on her for undermedicating with the narcotics he prescribes after surgery.
What is interesting is that a couple days ago a leftist judge just ruled that Trump was wrong to declare Venezuela a terrorist state. This won’t stand, of course, because that determination is purely the prerogative of the Executive. But the obliteration of this boat isn’t going to hurt Trump’s case. Just like a lot of illegals from El Salvador were tied to their gangs, a lot of the illegals from Venezuela are tied to drug running.
Two grieving fathers who lost their sons to fentanyl weigh in and the hysterics cannot even pause out of decency without vomiting their "war on drugs"/hate Trump bile.
Talking points going out to the puppets here point to Democrats courting the drug trade vote…
…that would seem a strong incentive to stop trafficking drugs. People respond to incentives…
My son was killed by fentanyl while self medicating for a noninsured back injury.
Seems like you should be just as pissed off at the insurance company and the medical care in this country than the fentanyl manufacturers.
I bet you can't wait til Trump orders a military strike on the entire Sackler family.
Those who carried the Mausers, drove the Panzers and manned the 88mm's were not the big Nazis, but the very poor, young people from Bavaria, Brandenburg and Saxony.
…the whole Trump’s fault thing is amusing. Earlier he was dead this weekend. No no no, now he was out killing people on drug boats…
"...the very poor, young people..." = "Oh, that bastard Trump."
Bummer for the poor young guys on the drug boats. A very small violin is playing in my head.
My brother in law passed away last year from complications of cancer. He was using fentanyl patches as they were the only things that could deal with his pain. Fentanyl is a hell of a drug.
One would think that because of the low cost and ease of smuggling fentanyl would be more widespread globally, but it does not seem so. The US seems to be the global hot spot. US opioid related deaths seem to be running at 15-16 times the rate of Europe.
Remember “we came, we saw, he died”
“ Talking points going out to the puppets here point to Democrats courting the drug trade vote…”
Or maybe the drug user vote.
If you're interested in a productive exchange...
False antecedent alert.
Freder Frederson said...
My son was killed by fentanyl while self medicating for a noninsured back injury.
Seems like you should be just as pissed off at the insurance company and the medical care in this country than the fentanyl manufacturers.
I bet you can't wait til Trump orders a military strike on the entire Sackler family.
I find your terms acceptable.
Though I think arrest and conviction are better options in general. If all efforts to handle things peacefully fail because all of the congress people are owned by insurance companies and courts hate election results then options must be considered.
We can also add all insurance mandates in general including the Obamacare mandates that were written by the insurance companies.
And Are you still arguing against removing “vaccine” mandates the drug companies installed or are you just saying things you don’t really believe again?
Seems like you should be just as pissed off at the insurance company and the medical care in this country than the fentanyl manufacturers.
Just when I think we've reached Peak Asshole on this board, Freder jumps back in and claims his crown.
James said…
If you're interested in a productive exchange, make a sincere moral argument that you can prove you've applied consistently. Or explain why the action harms the interests of the US and its citizens,
I like the rest of your post and most of this paragraph. But the “sincere moral argument” part needs to be addressed.
This situation is much like the war or regime change issue. You cannot have a sincere moral argument when the other parties have no sincerity or morals. There can only be Why is this happening and What Next.
Anyone who has been in the They die or you die situation understands this. Even then there is a distinction between the people who you could either accept surrender from/surrender to and the animals that must be eliminated completely one way or another.
There can be no sincere moral argument while animals are present. You cannot have a free high trust society until the criminals are in jail and the people who use government to steal and maintain power are suppressed.
"I find your terms acceptable."
Bet Freder wasn't expecting that.
"While I’m a Trump supporter, I’m dubious that a War on Drugs against fentanyl can succeed."
Well, Trump's trying, it would appear. What's that rule the left insists on in so many cases... "If it saves even one life, it's worth it."
It's a bold move, taking lives with no due process. More information is needed, as these are not declared hostiles and apparently no US vessel was acting defensively, nobody was under fire.
I don't think it's unreasonable to demand to know what the criteria are for engagement by the US Navy, when 'elimination with extreme prejudice' is on the menu, as it was here. If it's just a fast-moving boat that doesn't stop when hailed, well that's probably not acceptable, is it? I would guess that there is a chain of intelligence evidence that has surveilled the cargo from its origin. But that's still not enough in my book.
Thank you for your warm words of condolence, Freder.
Pour encourager les autres. If all you have to worry about is getting arrested and fined, maybe a little time in the pokey, it's worth taking the risk for the grande dinero. But if they're going to mercilessly snuff you from the sky? No, Senor Cartelista, I think I'd pick a less risky line of work.
“ "While I’m a Trump supporter, I’m dubious that a War on Drugs against fentanyl can succeed."
Remember how dubious some were about how the flow of illegals across our borders could be stopped?
KILL THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT THEM OUT... We really do need to get a handle on the drug problem.. and it's time to go to the sources.. but foreign and domestic.
Foreigners that make and try to smuggle in drugs are terrorist and thus free fire zones. Domestic sellers needs to be considered mass murderers fit only for a bag of nitrogen over their heads.
Freder, don't let the fleas bite. Or perhaps we should warn the fleas.
Buwaya: "US opioid related deaths seem to be running at 15-16 times the rate of Europe."
Do you think that's because we make prescribed opioids more available than the socialized-medicine countries do? I.e. if you have pain here, you can get to a doctor, get your RX, get hooked, switch to illegal opiods, and die, all while the European is still waiting for his first appointment?
Or are the Euros better at weaning people off opioids under a doc's supervision, rather than just cutting off patients for fear of being big-data'd as a suspicious prescriber? RR, JSM
I'm talking to you Inga. And I'm done not talking to you. You are incapable of human decency.
"and it's time to go to the sources.."
Or, in other words, "root causes". Another Democrat favorite, funny they're opposed to it here.
You're a disgusting, heartless person.
"All other details of the shocking, caught-on-video missile attack are classified, officials said."
Shocking? I think you meant "enjoyable."
If they were caught unloading the drugs in Florida I assume killing them would not be okay? Ok only if they are in international waters? What’s the rule and why?
john mosby said...
"Do you think that's because we make prescribed opioids more available than the socialized-medicine countries do?"
I must disagree strongly with this suggestion. Opioids now (and for the last several years) are extremely difficult if not impossible to get from a doctor.
"I would guess that there is a chain of intelligence evidence that has surveilled the cargo from its origin. But that's still not enough in my book. "
They claimed to have a positive ID.
jim5301 said...
If they were caught unloading the drugs in Florida I assume killing them would not be okay? Ok only if they are in international waters? What’s the rule and why?
If a group of armed men who are shipping in weapons and drugs and they intend to do harm to your citizens killing them is 100% the right answer.
The only better answer might be capturing them then having a public execution. Maybe televise putting them on a high altitude flight and dropping them back into Venezuela at 40,000 feet without a parachute. Give them gas masks go pros so they live to hit the ground and everyone gets to watch.
Our goal is of course to have fewer armed invaders shipping drugs and guns into our country.
Every single week for the past 3 years there has been at least one new member in the local support group for mothers who have lost children to addiction, and in 100% of the cases it was fentanyl that killed the child. This is just in Massachusetts.
Fentanyl precursors are not something you whip up in your basement out of cold medicine. They require a large-scale chemical industry. Blowing up boats carrying the drugs is the moderate, dovish approach. We had better hope it works, because if it doesn't, it's not that many steps to concluding that certain semi-hostile countries don't get to have large-scale chemical industries.
I'll say it again: more young people killed than in the Vietnam War, and each death converts more and more "normal," moderate, middle-class people closer to the point at which they force some kind of drastic action.
Please, Pres. Trump, next time ask the boat to stop before blasting it. We'll feel more virtuous, and you'll still get to blast the boat.
john mosby said...
Buwaya: "US opioid related deaths seem to be running at 15-16 times the rate of Europe."
Do you think that's because we make prescribed opioids more available than the socialized-medicine countries do? I.e. if you have pain here, you can get to a doctor, get your RX, get hooked, switch to illegal opiods, and die, all while the European is still waiting for his first appointment?
I am going to jump in here and point fingers at the drug company doctor kickback relationship.
I am also going to point fingers at the "Standard of Care" system where doctors have to follow a set of guidelines that protect them from lawyers and these guidelines are written by insurance and drug companies.
"Fentanyl precursors are not something you whip up in your basement out of cold medicine."
I wouldn't describe the precursors as hard to come by- all of them are easily sythesized in any college laboratory via ridiculously easy transformations and via multiple routes. I wouldn't attempt it in a basement, however, and I wouldn't be willing to finish the synthesis at all for fear of killing myself accidentally. However, I could easily synthesize it on kilo scale in less than a week those considerations aside.
“I'm talking to you Inga. And I'm done not talking to you. You are incapable of human decency.”
WHY are you talking to me? I haven’t commented on the subject matter of this blog post. What is wrong with you? How dare you speak to me of human decency, it seems pretty hateful to attack me here for no reason. Beyond bizarre
Prof. M. Drout said...
I'll say it again: more young people killed than in the Vietnam War, and each death converts more and more "normal," moderate, middle-class people closer to the point at which they force some kind of drastic action.
I never understood why the "conservatives" were so enraged by Mangione.
He was out of line. But he wasn't wrong.
He is entirely predictable. Our health care system is so corrupt and does such inhumane shit every day.
There is no real difference between the man Mangione killed and the people on that boat other than the CEO gave a bunch of money to politicians to make his bullshit legal and to buy protection from the police and courts.
Tina Trent…
Below is the only comment I’ve made on this thread. I haven’t even read most of the thread beyond lightly skimming it. Was my comment something that warranted your attack? I really don’t understand your anger directed at me for my comment.i was agreeing with a commenter after he was insulted rudely by Achilles.
Inga said...
“But for an insult to land, I’d have to respect your opinion—and I don’t.”
Yup, consider the source.
9/4/25, 11:57 AM
Maybe if progressives hadn’t weakened what the term “illegal” means. I just read another Obama appointed federal judge ruled it illegal for the Trump not to spend money.
Was Mangione justified to target the insurer, the hospital, the clinic, the doctors? Government employees? AARP, perhaps.
"Was Mangione justified to target the insurer, the hospital, the clinic, the doctors? Government employees?"
How about politicians? The police and courts?
I never understood why the "conservatives" were so enraged by Mangione.
I dunno. Maybe because being the CEO of a health insurance company isn't a capital offense?
Axios advises to skip the soldiers, the officers, and go straight to the top. Who is responsible in a "democracy"?
“I never understood why the "conservatives" were so enraged by Mangione.
He was out of line. But he wasn't wrong.”
Tina Trent, you attack me and say I’m incapable of “human decency” after agreeing with someone who was rudely attacked by Achilles. Just now Achilles says he doesn’t understand why “conservatives were enraged by Mangione”. Very “decent” man that Achilles, eh Tina? A man who thinks murder is ok when he warrants it? Achilles has said numerous times how he and his friends wanted to perform “wet works” on fellow Americans. Very decent guy you attacked me over Tina Trent.
"Tina Trent, you attack me and say I’m incapable of “human decency” after agreeing with someone who was rudely attacked by Achilles."
How does Inga's attack on Tina Trent evidence Inga's human decency?
"How does Inga's attack on Tina Trent evidence Inga's human decency?"
I don't know. Have you checked to see what Gemini says about that?
“How does Inga's attack on Tina Trent evidence Inga's human decency?”
I haven’t attacked Tina, I’ve pointed out that she behaved bizarrely and in an unwarranted fashion by what she said to me. But you being an indecent person, wouldn’t understand that. I’m pointing out to Tina that she might want to rethink telling someone they are incapable of human decency after behaving indecently themselves.
Gee, what would Jack Ryan do?!
“There is no real difference between the man Mangione killed and the people on that boat other than the CEO gave a bunch of money to politicians to make his bullshit legal and to buy protection from the police and courts.”
I sure hope that people here are capable of seeing the way Achilles views the human life of those he disagrees with.
All's fair in lust and abortion? The controversy seems to revolve around the question of the interdiction being Planned. Were these traffickers a major or minor "burden"?
Are they still there, Howard @11:53AM? Maybe they never dropped.
Buwaya said "One would think that because of the low cost and ease of smuggling fentanyl would be more widespread globally"
Fentanyl is a growing problem in Europe and the UK, but still very small compared to the USA. Cocaine used to be mainly a USA problem until the cartels expanded their operations to Europe. Now cocaine is more prevalent there than it is here (meth has largely supplanted it in the US). Give it a couple of years and it will be a huge issue. There is no shortage of heroin users in Europe, and they will quickly move to fent.
At least it wasn't President Autopen that signed off on sinking El Tren De Aragua Enterprise. It was a real live Presidente Trump.
No one knows exactly what was on the Venezuelan boat that was struck by the US military, but the fact that the strike was okayed by the president’s son suggests that there was no cocaine aboard.
They're swimming with Osama bin Laden's toast.
the clue is in the Name: War on Drugs. Might actually be a serious effort here to address the supply issue. How about the demand side?
I will believe we are serious when "recreational" use is no longer tolerated, the "entertainment" and "news" media cease snickering an glorifying drug use.
Inga writes, "But you being an indecent person, wouldn’t understand that."
Q. E. D.
Inga, you're such a tool. I should be ashamed of so easily manipulating such a frazzled dunce, but I'm not. Unlike most frazzled dunces, you deserve every bit of it.
Terminal tariffs on the supplier-side economics, and MAHA on the demand-side economics, to save lives and make medical care safe, rare, and affordable, again.
Achilles, I wasn't trying to imply (or support) Mangione-type lone-wolf action. What I'm seeing is more and more ordinary, moderate, middle-class families becoming "radicalized" into supporting draconian punishments and exceptionally aggressive actions against countries that support the drug trade. That's where we are now. But if the Powers that Be continue to refuse to do anything beyond mouthing platitudes and interfere with whatever Trump does, that will change.
Also, there probably hasn't been a Mangione-like attack because there really isn't a prominent national spokesperson for the fentanyl smuggling industry for anyone to go after. For example, the execs of Snapchat are probably as culpable as anybody, but they aren't even fractionally as prominent as the CEO of a health insurance oligopoly.
I do wonder that no relative of the myriad victims has started going around murdering drug dealers--at least as far as we know--but it is probably only a matter of time.
It would be better for our country if the violence could be limited to vaporizing smugglers on the high seas and perhaps droning convoys before they rush the southern border rather than what is likely to happen if the do-nothing approach of the previous 4 years continues.
“I should be ashamed of so easily manipulating such a frazzled dunce, but I'm not.”
Quackster, you really think too highly of yourself.
Planned Perphood (PP)
Mao also waged a fairly successful War on Drugs in the 1950s, emphasizing forced rehabilitation for users (re-education in the countryside away from the temptation, and supply, of opioids, on a farm where work meant eating when the rice ripened, and failure to work meant, well, not eating). Very lenient that rehab was, compared to the punishment of drug dealers, with a reported 2% of dealers executed publicly (and hence likely 1/10 to 1/1000 of actual executions per standard whitewashing by the CCP of deaths under its regime). Oddly, no report seems readily available about where the rest of the convicted drug dealers ended up. So precedent exists, I guess, for harsh dealings with drug suppliers. And the phrase "narco-terrorism" has been around a long, long time, so don't get yourself upset over the assignment of terrorist status to narco traffickers.
Alas Babylon.
Kakistocracy said...
No one knows exactly what was on the Venezuelan boat that was struck by the US military, but the fact that the strike was okayed by the president’s son suggests that there was no cocaine aboard.
************
But if it were Biden's son, he would damn sure NOT let that boat be struck!
“Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act (MDLEA), 46 U.S.C. §70501 et seq.: The U.S. asserts jurisdiction over drug trafficking on the high seas, even for foreign vessels, if they fall under U.S. authority (e.g., stateless vessels or flag state consent) “
1. Pursuit and police action on vessels moving in defiance of lawful orders is permitted.
2. If Venezuela claims that the drug boat was a state flagged vessel they will be sued in maritime courts as an operator of contraband trade.
3. The claim that the criminals were only poor starving people is not an excuse established in law, except in The District of Columbia.
4. It was on the high seas so there is no jurisdiction is an archaic concept
First an occasional boat. Next, an occasional factory.
Maybe this goes with renaming defense to the dept of war. Being proactive.
The last declaration of war was in 1942. The military has been routinely used for law enforcement tasks at home and abroad.
Jim at said...
I never understood why the "conservatives" were so enraged by Mangione.
I dunno. Maybe because being the CEO of a health insurance company isn't a capital offense?
Can you give me one honest difference between the CEO of a Health Insurance or Pharmaceutical Company that pays doctors kickbacks for prescribing their drugs?
The only difference I see is they are rich and paid the right senators to write them some laws to protect them from their customers.
Prof. M. Drout said...
Achilles, I wasn't trying to imply (or support) Mangione-type lone-wolf action. What I'm seeing is more and more ordinary, moderate, middle-class families becoming "radicalized" into supporting draconian punishments and exceptionally aggressive actions against countries that support the drug trade.
I am not implying support for it either. We as a country used to have a social contract that gave the monopoly on force to the government because we agreed that it would be better to have a system of laws that protects everyone equally.
But our health care system is obviously corrupt and the COVID epidemic put the soul crushing evil of it on display for all to see.
My father fell from a ladder and had a severe head injury. He was taken to the emergency room but there were no head specialists on duty for the weekend so they flew him in a helicopter 2.5 hour drive away to Harborview Hospital in Seattle. They would not let my mother or my sister in to see him all weekend. When they finally got in to see him he was shut into a dark room with the lights off and he was strapped to the stretcher for 2 days. My brother finally got there and made a scene. Their justification was COVID rules.
He has not recovered and there is no doubt in anyone's mind that the staff at Harborview is to some extent responsible for how he ended up.
Our health care system is diseased and lacks humanity. If our government does not exercise it's monopoly on force things will get ugly. The insurance companies and the bureaucracy have to go.
Can you give me one honest difference between the CEO of a Health Insurance or Pharmaceutical Company that pays doctors kickbacks for prescribing their drugs?
I'm not going to get into this with you.
You think people can simply go out and kill someone if they believe their reason is right and just. The law be damned.
You're smart enough to know where that leads.
But if you want to go there? Fine. Just be careful what you're endorsing because some Mangione-type may have a bullet with your name on it.
For the record, I have no idea why fentanyl is so much more of a problem in the US than Europe or apparently anywhere else (so far), or why the Euro death rate from opioids is so much lower (though no doubt the lack of fentanyl plays a part), even seeing that heroin is also a widespread problem.
These seem to be interesting points and probably indicate some significant cultural, circumstantial or policy factors.
Sa
Say it with me alleged ex law prof emeritus (don't be afraid!):
This is wrong!
This is illegal.
This is not justice, just killing...
You're a coward who should have married your Jewish love and done something good for the world with your art degree. Shame on you. Shame on the man whose job you took who would be speaking out intelligently today, not being led intellectually by a failed groundskeeper...
Fisherman.
Get your crowd to clap for the killing of fishermen, "caught on camera!" Big boom! Tune in, we'll tell ya what you're seeing... don't you TRUST US???
Stupid fools going to get yourselves, hopefully not the rest of us, killed one day... No trial.
Fisherman.
Get your crowd to clap for the killing of fishermen, "caught on camera!" Big boom! Tune in, we'll tell ya what you're seeing... don't you TRUST US???
Stupid fools going to get yourselves, hopefully not the rest of us, killed one day... No trial.
“One would think that because of the low cost and ease of smuggling fentanyl would be more widespread globally, but it does not seem so. The US seems to be the global hot spot. US opioid related deaths seem to be running at 15-16 times the rate of Europe.”
What is important to note is that the precursors for fentanyl are manufactured in China, and China maintains their monopoly by selling them below cost. They are then shipped to countries like Venezuela for manufacture, then smuggled into, primarily, the US. That is to say that China controls the fentanyl trade fairly tightly.
Which means that its purpose there is to weaken and destabilize the US. We are their main geopolitical opponent, because we control most of the high seas around the world. Europe really is irrelevant to them, because even the countries with legitimate navies (e.g. UK, France) don’t have large enough ones anymore to project power anywhere near their shores.
I sure hope that people here are capable of seeing the way Achilles views the human life of those he disagrees with.
Read the comments.
Somebody is going to accuse me of something, but here goes.
What is the difference between ThomasJ sending ships against the Barbary Pirates and the US Navy intercepting and sinking drug smuggling boats?
Kakistocracy said...
"No one knows exactly what was on the Venezuelan boat that was struck by the US military,"
They knew exactly what was on that boat. You think all this happens on a whim? There are intelligence agencies and informers that tell us what's moving and when. Believe it or not there are partnering agencies in other countries.
The last declaration of war was in 1942.
Self-proclaimed Constitutional law expert Joe Biden, then Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (and then still able to speak coherently), denied that. As Biden observed in the aftermath of a speech presented on October 22, 2001 [!], in response to a question from the floor: {quoting…}
Question: “Senator, thank you for this broad gauged approach to the problems we face. My question is this, do you foresee the need or the expectation of a Congressional declaration of war, which the Constitution calls for, and if so, against whom?” [Scattered Laughter]
Biden: “The answer is yes, and we did it. I happen to be a professor of Constitutional law. I'm the guy that drafted the Use of Force proposal that we passed. It was in conflict between the President and the House. I was the guy who finally drafted what we did pass. Under the Constitution, there is simply no distinction… Louis Fisher(?) and others can tell you, there is no distinction between a formal declaration of war, and an authorization of use of force. There is none for Constitutional purposes. None whatsoever. And we defined in that Use of Force Act that we passed, what… against whom we were moving, and what authority was granted to the President.”
{/unQuote}
(Ellipsis in the original. Quoted from Joe Biden's own [now defunct] senatorial website.)
But, of course, Biden as President made no attempt to obtain any Congressional approval (e.g., by at least seeking an authorization for the use of military force) of any his actions in the Middle East and elsewhere.
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