"... but were ordered changed by Congress in the waning days of his first administration.
His move skirts the law mandating the removal of Confederate symbols from the military through the same maneuver used to restore the name
of Fort Bragg, which was briefly renamed Fort Liberty. In a statement, the Army said it would 'take immediate action' to restore the old names of the bases originally honoring Confederates, but the base names would instead honor other American soldiers with similar names and initials."
From
"Trump Says Army Bases Will Revert to Confederate Names/The move would reverse a yearslong effort to remove names and symbols honoring the Confederacy from the military" (NYT).
Maybe you like the traditional names, not because you're wistful about the Confederacy but because the place was named long ago and feels familiar and seems to stand on its own as the name of the place, but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?
Posts
140 comments:
Next roll back "Juneteenth"
Ask the people of King County (Seattle), and the people behind the reattribution of its name, what they think of this.
Well I dunno, let's try this test: Would the other side do it?
Again, it doesn't matter what the POTUS wants. Its want the 700 district court judges want.
In any case, with the D's violating Immigration, election, etc. laws at whim, or "clashing with police" with no consquence while J6er were sent to rot in prison, "skirting the law" sounds pretty minor.
And you can throw in Leftwing judges ignoring the plain meaning of the law and constituion to enforce their will. As a result the whole "We must obey the rule of law" is just for suckers.
Its a clever way to get what you want. No name change. The congress didn't want Bases named after Confederate Generals and they wont be. They'll be named after other heroes with the same last name. If you want to believe Fort Bragg is now named for General Bragg CSA, you'll be wrong.
BTW, the whole Name change bill that, IRC, came up in December 2020, shows why the DC Republicans - especially the Senate - are so worthless and should be voted out. The name change issue is a liberal/left one. Nobody in the Republican base wanted it, or cared about it.
But the R's in the House/Senate actually overrode trump's veto because they wanted to please their Democrat collegues. Did they pick up any black votes? No. Did they pick up any leftist votes? No. They just wanted to please the liberal/left.
Those stupid morons in GA, both voted for the Bill too. Guess it really helped them - i.e. helped them lose! Imagine someone so dumb they'd rather lose their Senate seat then support Trump. but that's Senate Republicans. Stuck on stupid.
At least they're not resorting to "novel legal theories."
"...but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?"
Regarding how law is treated: that cow has left the barn.
That cow then put on a Keffiyeh and went into town and torched a Tesla while waving a Mexican flag.
The cow then visited a district judge, where they ate expensive cheese and engaged in illegal beastiality.
Which the judge then declared legal, on behalf of immigrant gender-fluid cows and the men who love them. To the approval of the North American Man Cow Love Association.
For some, this was a step too far.
As such, a sternly-worded letter was written, expressing displeasure in the cow's actions.
The cow is now safely relocated to Martha's Vineyard, where a committee of wine-drinking liberal white women watch their undocumented servants wash the cow.
I am Laslo.
I like the confederate names because of why they existed in the first place- as symbol of healing after the confederacy had been defeated. Hopefully we’ll see the need to name some stuff after the leftie assholes once they’re defeated. I don’t care if it happens, just that they’re so defeated we see the need…
… but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?
I do. Without reservation. If Congress wanted the name changed to Fort Liberty (or some such pallid nonsense) it should have expressly said so.
These names were, for the most part, Reconstruction legacies, and that should be honored as a piece of our history.
- Krumhorn
Perhaps it's as simple as - only Neo-Marxist censorship-authoritarians want to erase history - and erase even learning about history - and replace everything with an empty pride symbol.
Yeah, okay. What's in a name. Civil War general or Battle of the Bulge infantryman. Most people don't care either way, and those that care can latch onto either man......Slavery was a horror, and silence is consent. For too long, we have been too accepting of those who by their silence condoned this practice. Let's stop honoring Buddha, Confucius, Socrates, Moses, and Jesus. If these moral cowards had taken a stand against slavery, the world would now be a fair and equitable place. And, then there's Mohammed who not only didn't speak out against slavery, but was an active advocate for it.
I missed Laslo and always appreciate his comments. Glad he is still here!
Renaming stuff is ignoble politics at best. What's worse is erasing history -- pure totalitarianism. That's what Orwell's Ministry of Truth was all about, and that was the impetus behind renaming Bragg to Fort Liberty. Whether named for Braxton Bragg or someone else named Bragg, Fort Bragg has a storied history. The men who rowed themselves across the Waal using their rifles as oars against dug-in Waffen-SS troops raining mortar and MG fire upon them trained at Fort Bragg. For that reason alone, the name Fort Bragg is sacred, and the initial name change was vile.
Approve. I never knew who most of these posts were actually named after, and only knew them as Forts Benning, Bragg, etc. There is a lot of historical meaning to these names that have nothing to do with who they were named after.
wine-drinking liberal white women
A herd of old cows of the termagant variety.
- Krumhorn
"...but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?"
This is a very "Nathan for You" solution - I wonder if he's working for the administration? We just watched an episode of that show where, in order to avoid the tariffs on smoke detectors, Nathan rebrands them as "musical instruments" (which have no tariffs), going so far as to have a band record a song featuring a guy on the smoke detector.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvdyQJ29bM4
Fort Liberty is functionally equivalent in extreme lameness as the football team Washington Commanders.
but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy
Now talk to us about line item vetos in Wisconsin?
>but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?<
It is hardly sneaky when the Army has openly announced how they were accomplishing the new name changes. Nor does this action particularly reflect the definition of "snark."
Those facts aside, all's fair in...war. The Democrats have certainly taught us that. And "we" are at war - with them - and it's about time we acted like it. So yeah, I for one approve of the ploy.
"...[D]o you approve of the law being...evaded with such a sneaky...snarky ploy?"
No. Nor do I approve of the law; but there it is. The lesson, and the challenge, is to accept and understand history. Aside, worst part about honoring Braxton Bragg is he was not notably good at his job.
I blame the voters.
I can't say that I'm sentimental about the spring and summer I spent at Fort Polk in 1969 going through Basic and Light Weapons Infantry training. And after all the adjacent small town was "Leesville". But the names were okay. Leonidas Polk was the "Fighting Bishop" from Louisiana, and of course you know about Robert E. Lee. But I am not happy with the Left's attempts to erase history.
In his farewell address, George Washington warned that a president should never deliver a partisan political speech to active-duty troops on a military base. Yet, Trump has done exactly that.
Trump and Hegseth are actively and overtly transforming the U.S. military into a partisan political force, in violation of the Constitution. Meanwhile, Republicans in Congress remain silent as another pillar of the Republic crumbles.
I played ice hockey in Philadelphia in the years immediately following the pugilistic "Broad Street Bullies." Our Catholic High School, Father Judge, would not sanction the team.
So, a dad started a hockey club and named it after some fella named Charles A. Judge, bought uniforms in the school colors, and got us into the league playing other high schools.
A nice story with no real harm done.
But no, I don't like Trump's flouting the law for things that aren't critical. (For securing the border, yes.)
"..Slavery was a horror, and silence is consent."
Thanks for coming out against slavery. Pretty brave, given all the Pro-slavery advocates around in 2025. Here's my take: I dont give a damn about American "Negro" slavery. It ended 160 years ago.
Its relevance to 2025 is.... zero. Oh wait, I forgot I'm posting on the internet where obviously hyperbolic statements are taken literally. I meant "almost zero".
Here's my question: How many more years have to go by, before people stop grandstanding and pretending they are super-upset about Confederate Generals and Slavery from 160 years ago.
Kak-a-phony
The corrupt democratic left attempted to turn the military into a WOKE Joke.
I liked the workaround they did at some installations where they tracked down a Union/US serviceman with the same last name and some notable accomplishments. Officially no longer named after a Confederate, and the name doesn't change, everybody wins.
Fort Bragg was established and named under racist, Dem, Prog Woodrow Wilson in 1918. Probably most of the other facilities named after Confederates were also named by racist, pro slavery Democrats of the time.
Consider for a moment, if you would that conservatives should look to the future. Maybe there are more important things to conserve right now.
I can understand the attachment to tradition and the resentment of having these name changes that disrespect tradition rammed through by politicians cynically pushing the narrative that America is a racist country in order to keep the Black vote, especially when it was their own party that was responsible for the Confederacy and Jim Crow, etc.
I can also understand how Blacks might feel about the nation honoring pro slavery historical figures.
Right now we have the very real chance to win the Black vote away from the Dems on merit. Maybe conservatives should focus on that.
Watch this 2 minute clip.
https://x.com/i/status/1918114438525124735
Money Manger: “Next roll back Juneteenth.”
No, keep Juneteenth, and hammer again and again what it commemorates: a US Army general, after defeating Texas Democrats, promulgating the Emancipation Proclamation written by Republican Abe Lincoln.
Parades everywhere, with lots of white male reenactors in blue coats.
Maybe a movie with Dennis Quaid or Kevin Sorbo as General Granger. And Larry Elder as a freedman, with Dave Chapelle as Frederick Douglass. Maybe Rob Schneider as an inept moustache-twirling Confederate general. Box office boffo.
Hopefully some major MAGA figure has a June 19 birthday, too.
JSM
Trump and Hegseth are actively and overtly transforming the U.S. military into a partisan political force, in violation of the Constitution. Meanwhile, Republicans in Congress remain silent as another pillar of the Republic crumbles.
These must be difficult times for you. I recommend that you squeeze a tennis ball 🎾 for anxiety release and steady your breathing.
- Krumhorn
Many Confederate Generals weren't fighting for slavery. Believe it or not, many people in 1861 actually believed in states rights and the right of their state to leave the union. Some Confederate Generals - like Pemberton - were Northerners. And some Union Generals were the opposite. They had nothing against slavery - they were fighting for the Union. Like George Thomas or Jeff Davis (yes, the union had its own Jeff Davis).
Sherman, for example, didn't like slavery but was OK with living in NOLA and the Deep South having slaves. He was, however, 100 percent against Seccession.
Renaming USNS Harvey Milk is not erasing history. It's putting history in its proper perspective. Milk served in the Navy Reserve during the Korean War. His service was competent, but undistinguished. The Navy usually honors naval heroes when naming vessels. Harvey Milk was named for queer politics that had nothing to do with the United States Navy. If the queer lobby wants a ship, let them find a sailor who sacrificed himself for his shipmates who was gay. There's bound to be one. Do the research.
This reminds me of the case of of the Coast Guard Cutter Roger B. Taney, the last surviving warship of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Today, she's a museum ship in Baltimore Harbor with the ridiculous code WHEC-37 painted on her transom. Ocean-going cutters were named for Secretaries of the Treasury by law and Taney gallantly served under fire under her lawful name. The ship and her crew had nothing to do with Taney the Chief Justice, but their well-earned reputations have been besmirched by racial politics -- nothing but revenge on the innocent if you ask me inflicted by the dispicables.
The original point of naming Bases for Confederates, was simple. During WW 1, the idea was "We're all Americans now. Lets bury the hatchet and come together and beat those Goddamn Krauts". So bases in the South were named for Southern Generals and Heroes.
Of course, during WW II the liberal/leftists loved using Southern Boys as cannon fodder to beat Hitler, so not only were the bases named for Confederates, the Southern marines and GIs were applauded for raising the stars and bars over the Bridge at Remagan or on Okinawa.
But now its 2025, and dummies have to grandstand over how much they hate Slavery. And love black folks. So we cannot have bases named after Confederates, even though no one really cared for decades and decades.
I liked the old names. Not just for the sentimental value they hold because of postings in years past, but because after the name changes it's one of the best ways to sort the untrustworthy (new name users) from the trustworthy in private informal conversation.
Anyone using the new names only ever rises to the level of associate of RideSpaceMountain, never a friend.
The USS harvey Milk reminds me of Churchill's jibe at the Royal Navy - "What are the Royal Navy's traditions? Rum and Sodomy".
Howard said...
“Fort Liberty is functionally equivalent in extreme lameness as the football team Washington Commanders.”
Or the Cleveland Guardians.
Exactly, Rocco. Your example is orders of magnitude more lame than the commanders
I don't care how Trump does it... you don't erase history.. but you do learn from it.
Semantic seance is a privilege of human rites. A fetus... fetish of empathetic myths. Let us indulge therapy in transition from these rising waters at Vineyard's edge to the Isle of Lesbos where we will have a gay old time with climate change and warm weather by the seashore.
My opposition to the renaming is quite simple. Its part of the Leftwing war (Not woke) on America 1.0.
As Trump said, first they cancel R.E. Lee, then its Jefferson, and then its everyone before FDR. Its amazing how Conservatives and Centrists cant see the big picture. Some of them will do anything rather than admit there's an organized anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-white, Left in this country. The Left is determined to destroy "America 1.0" and this is just a minor piece of it.
Silence is consent. Well, if that's the case, notice the silence when Trump was shot. And the Ashli Babbitt was murdered. And when BLM/Antifa rioted looted and burned. And the "silence" when millions of illegals entered the USA and were given SS numbers and voting cards.
Like many things, this was made an issue because Democrat lawmakers wanted a divisive narrative to win votes. The majority never cared and the minority was smaller than legislators pretended otherwise. With that in mind, I really don’t care. I haven’t heard Democrats removing Robert Byrd’s name from anything, but I have seem them claim Lincoln as a Democrat and George Wallace was a Republican.
Also, isn’t this old news? Ft. Bragg was renamed months ago.
While I agree with Kak there's too much politics in the military. Unfortunately, Democrats and Republicans alike have been doing that since I can remember.
"What are the Royal Navy's traditions? Rum and Sodomy".
"Rum, sodomy, and the lash", to be exact.
Lee is not honored for defending slavery, but for defending his home state.
Reconstruction and reconciliation were shunned when racism and sexism intersected in a back... black hole... whore h/t NAACP. A legacy of Critical Diversity Theory and DEIsm where color and class blocs replaced the People and our [unPlanned] Posterity to relieve perceived and leveraged "burdens" of evidence. All's fair in lust and abortion, they brayed. Hee haw haw.
"In his farewell address, George Washington warned that a president should never deliver a partisan political speech to active-duty troops on a military base."
Who cares what a white, slave owning racist said?
Also, he said no such thing.
“As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible; avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it; avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertions in time of peace to discharge the debts which unavoidable wars may have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear.
It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government.
Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?
Promote then as an object of primary importance institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.
As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit.
Overgrown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.”
"...do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?" This name change was done during the Biden admin, the master of sneaky and snarky starting right at the top with the imitation president, so, yeah, I'm jake with it.
We can do things the way we do it here in Minnesota - rename everything after Paul Wellstone.
My name sake was in Co A, 2nd Governor's Guards (South Carolina), Kershaw's Brigade, of McLaws Division Jackson's then Longstreet's Corp in the Army of Northern Virginia under the command of General Robert E. Lee. From Sumter to Appomattox he served. His tombstone is legend enough. Everyone of those named were good Americans. Their place names are an important bell ringing from and for our shared history as a people and nation. Stay the fake names and return true history to us.
No, I don't like it. I am generally pro-Trump but this is very much the sort of thing that unnerves me.
You may call it sneaky and snarky but I appreciate the way President Trump named his social media website after America’s great abolitionist, Sojourner Truth Social.
Changing long-established nomenclature is stupid and time-wasting. It's the kind of thing that mid-wits love doing because they can't discover anything or build anything worthwhile.
Undoing name-changes is intrinsically good, regardless of the reasons for the change.
Contemporary people should show some humility in the face of things done by our ancestors: given how unaccomplished our culture is when compared to theirs, we have a lot to be humble about.
The Confederate memorials were part of reconciliation. Conciliation isn't big today.
Who cares about the names? But Trump needs to avoid the appearance of lawlessness until time to tell District Judges to pound sand.
The Confederate memorials were part of reconciliation.
This is the exact opposite of the truth. Most of the memorials were placed during the early part of the 20th century during the height of the KKK era. They were erected to remind people of their proper place in society.
I don't what I would have become without my time at The Benning School for Boys, now named for a WWI Corporal. Like the other posters above, I understand the original rationale for the Forts names, and agree with it.
As far as stretching, or perverting the law, that ship has long sailed. I don't make the rules.
"They were erected to remind people of their proper place in society."
No. I am a translated Yankee, and even I understand it was about local pride and recognition, not repressing people.
Assistant Village Idiot said..."No, I don't like it. I am generally pro-Trump but this is very much the sort of thing that unnerves me."
Glad to see your TDS ramping up to 11.
"...Former GOP presidential candidate and current Ohio gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy drew a blistering historical comparison between California Governor Gavin Newsom and infamous segregationist George Wallace—and he didn’t mince words. While Ramaswamy admitted a personal fondness for Newsom, he warned that the Democrat’s defiance of federal immigration law is dangerously reminiscent of a shameful chapter in American history.
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“I know Gavin Newsom. I actually happen to like him as a person,” Ramaswamy said. “The reality is, he’s not going to like what I have to say on this, which is that his behavior is starting to resemble that of another Democratic governor from US history by the name of George Wallace, who was the governor of Alabama, who famously stood in the way of federal desegregation.”
That history is well known—Wallace made national headlines in 1963 by literally standing in a schoolhouse door to block black students from entering. It was President John F. Kennedy who had to step in and federalize the Alabama National Guard to enforce desegregation."
Monuments and base/place names are two different animatronics.
Trump is trying his best to give old hippies a heart attack.
"but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?"
Not any worse than the WI governor striking numbers from some dates in a bill in order to extend school funding for decades beyond the duration the Legislature had agreed to and passed.
In fact, I feel much better about the objective achieved by Trump in that the cost is fairly negligible.
Maybe it would be a good bill to introduce that would force all buildings named after former KKK members be renamed as well. How many things have Byrd's name on them?
"Most of the memorials were placed during the early part of the 20th century during the height of the KKK era."
There was no "KKK era" before 1914. Memorials before WW 1 were usually put up by organizations like "The Daughters of the Confederacy" and were used to honor "The greatest Southern Generation ever". Many Confederate vets were 48-65 in 1900.
But a leftwinger lying? Who woulda thunk it!
Actually, I am wistful about the Confederacy.
We were never at war with Oceana
but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?
Isn't that standard fare in society? Find the loopholes, find the gaps, use ridiculous interpretations to exploit the gaps and loopholes. We even have a term for it: following the letter of the law.
Maybe you like the traditional names
Or maybe we hate how the left is constantly using renaming as a weapon to change history and we want our elected leaders to put a stop to it.
It will all be changed back with next King or Queen up. This is all just look over here, maybe with a small donation! Remember your place with a "golden calf" to remind you of how great America was. Silly Goose..
As they say, you can tell a lot about the victor in a war by the way they treat the losing side after the war is over. The thing about military leaders is that they were not the ones making government policy. They were just the ones fighting on the battlefield on the orders of the government.
In any war, there are usually good generals on both sides. I read that during WWII, there was a Japanese general who stopped the Japanese government from carrying out a planned biological warfare attack against United States West Coast civilians. (Apparently, the Japanese had successfully used biological warfare before against China and wanted to use it against us.) After the war was over, the United States put this general on trial and execuited him. (When we probably should have shown some leinency, because of the U.S. civilian deaths he prevented.)
"Maybe you like the traditional names, not because you're wistful about the Confederacy but because the place was named long ago and feels familiar and seems to stand on its own as the name of the place, but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?"
What I don't like is erasing history.
Also, the Civil war was referred to as "brother against brother." To build a strong single nation after the war, there had to be some measure of forgiveness against the former Confederates.
The rank and file were still going to call the bases by the original names, ie “I went to Airborne training at Benning” or “I served with the 82nd at Bragg”. Nothing the left did was ever going to change that or the DD214s with the original names on it. Some of the new names were great…MOH winner CW4 Novosel for Fort Rucker for example. But the spiteful way the Left changed the names as punishment, has backfired.
You know who else changed names of military bases back to their original name? Hitler!!
We even have a term for it: following the letter of the law.
Also known as "working to rule" in the labor-union milieu, or "malicious compliance" in the Deep State swamp.
Not naming your country's military bases for traitors who waged war against your country seems like a good rule.
Sneaky, snarky? Let's go back to Roe v. Wade and the discovery of abortion rights as "privacy." Let's go back to FDR's New Deal and strongarming the Supreme Court into semantic interpretations in his favor.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Still, this means that lawfare (trench warfare) has become fully bipartisan. USA politics stands to mimic the EU as a land of turf wars and thick, thick, thick rulebooks.
Parties feel good playing tricks, but the common benefit declines. Zealots demand to win, or they will die trying.
Hassayamper said...
"What are the Royal Navy's traditions? Rum and Sodomy".
"Rum, sodomy, and the lash", to be exact.
Don't forget, also the occasion execution of Admirals, "pour encourager les autres."
We could rename it Fort Gulf of Mexico. It's available.
Today the Democrat Confederates are attacking citizens and federal agents in multiple cities.
They want you to forget about the confederates who were also democrats last time they started a civil war.
Why yes, I DO approve of getting around Democr4at laws any way we legally can.
loudogblog said...
“In any war, there are usually good generals on both sides. I read that during WWII, there was a Japanese general who stopped the Japanese government from carrying out a planned biological warfare attack against United States West Coast civilians. (Apparently, the Japanese had successfully used biological warfare before against China and wanted to use it against us.)”
It was Yoshijirō Umezu, who became chief of staff in early 1944. His opposition was based on fear of US retaliation, not any moral principle. He was fine with biological (over 300,000 dead) and chemical (unknown, but an absolute minimum of 35,000 dead) weapons being used against the Chinese, who could not respond in kind.
The Wikipedia article on the biological warfare Operation PX states that the attacks were never carried out against the US. But after the Japanese surrendered, at least one of their subs in the mid Pacific surrendered to the US on its way to the West Coast. The US seamen who inspected the sub were mystified as to why they had all those rats in cages on board. (The rats carried fleas who were in turn infected with the various biological agents.)
After surrender, there was talk of using the flea infested rats on US occupation troops, but Umezu said no to that, too.
After the war was over, the United States put this general on trial…
He was convicted of multiple war crimes for other actions unrelated to this specific biological warfare program against the US.
“…and executed him.”
False. He was sentenced to life imprisonment, but died of cancer in 1949.
Umezu was one of the strongest holdouts against Japanese surrender, even after both of the atomic bombs had been dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He believed that by forcing the US to invade - and hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths on both sides - Japan could get more favorable surrender terms.
He was aware of the attempted coup against the Emperor, but neither aided nor reported it.
The Emperor personally ordered him to sign the surrender document, and he was the senior Army member to do so.
“(When we probably should have shown some leniency, because of the U.S. civilian deaths he prevented.)”
Disagree. For one, his decision was tactical. If he had no fear of US retaliation, he would have consented to the attack. For another, that decision does not absolve him of the millions of victims of the other atrocities he consented to.
but do you approve of the law being treated that way, evaded with such a sneaky, snarky ploy?
As opposed to Biden, who simply ignored the law and opened the country up to tens of millions of illegals?
Rum, bum, and baccy!
My given name is the same as my mother's mother's father, who served under Bedford Forrest from 1863 to the end (age 17-19).
In WWII the Second US Army trained and maneuvered at Camp Forrest in the middle of the state.
Around here, the ascendant D's had the statue of Forrest removed, and the fine park renamed, in 2016. It was a dick move, very much like the dick move the ascendant D's pulled in 1901-1905 when they erected it.
It was a very fine equestrian statue by one of the preeminent American sculptors, and I was scheduled to speak (as president of our local historical society) against the removal at a meeting in east Tennessee of the state historical commission. Which I missed because of car trouble the night before--by the time the car had been fixed the meeting was over and I was still almost an hour's drive away.
Of course I knew that it was a lost cause when I started out. There were very credible threats of riot here if the statue and park remained.
There is a Forrest Avenue in Midtown, but so far there hasn't been any great outcry against it.
I think we should preserve all the monuments and use them as denkmalen.
Joe Bar said...
“I don't what I would have become without my time at The Benning School for Boys, now named for a WWI Corporal.”
Good for Fred Benning! Whew, for a moment there I thought that I had slipped into a Man in the High Castle alternate reality.
Howard said...
While I agree with Kak there's too much politics in the military. Unfortunately, Democrats and Republicans alike have been doing that since I can remember.
For any society to function you must have shared values that a critical mass of the people in that society are willing to fight for and there must be a critical mass of people who have shared respect for those who disagree with them.
At the end of the day you are asking these men to go die for those shared values. If you cannot get them to cheer for those values then they will have poor cohesion in battle.
The democrat party today is for open borders, as many wars as we can start, exploiting foreign labor and concurrently destroying the middle and working classes, censorship, and political violence.
Nothing Trump said was controversial. They are shared values held by a huge majority of people in this country. Evangelicals, working class, Hispanic immigrants, jfk democrats have all formed a political coalition based on the rule of law, free speech, ending neocon wars, and rebuilding our nations manufacturing economy.
The only people who find what Trump said “political” are a bunch of international socialist pieces of shit who think importing a foreign army to loot and pillage under the Mexican flag in our country is acceptable. This situation is exactly why we have a military and it is time to crush this invasion and put our southern neighbors in their place. The cartels need to go and the armed forces are the tool for that job.
RIP Brian Wilson
Don't forget, also the occasion execution of Admirals, "pour encourager les autres."
Indeed, although that was from Voltaire, not Churchill.
Trump will never have anything significant named after him. Perhaps a prison, and a road here and there. And a few corrupt hospitality businesses. And a bookless library. No aircraft carriers. No spot on Mt. Rushmore.
Too late, jimmie numbers. Trump has already named the inside of your head after himself.
His renaming the Gulf of Mexico renders his argument incoherent.
‘George Washington warned that a president should never deliver a partisan political speech to active-duty troops on a military base.”
That is not a quote from GW. He did not warn against that. “Military bases” at his time were camps or small forts. He gave speeches to many on politics but was not partisan himself. Washington did war against “the baneful effects of the spirit of party.”
Regarding Ft. Bragg, I always thought naming it after Braxton Bragg was an insult to the Confederacy but agree that the history that occurred under that name deserves continuing it now out of respect to ww1 and 2 and other war vets.
“ His renaming the Gulf of Mexico renders his argument incoherent.”
I was insulted when Mexico renamed the glorious “Spanish Main” the Gulf of Mexico. The racist Mexicans insulted the Spaniards.
I bet you can find a medal of honor winner with the last name of every Confederate General that had a base named after him. You keep the base name - Bragg and Hood are the two most important. And you can honor men who are little more current to 2025. Its a win-win.
"In his farewell address, George Washington warned that a president should never deliver a partisan political speech to active-duty troops on a military base."
The anachronism just slaps you in the face, doesn't it?
Can’t emphasize enough what a disgrace this whole sad episode was.
Army officials asked soldiers to identify themselves if they don't agree with Trump's politics that way he'd get only supportive soldiers in uniform during his political rally on base. Heavier soldiers were also barred from participating. How humiliating would it be to be "too fat for Trump"
Bragg Soldiers Who Cheered Trump's Political Attacks While in Uniform Were Checked for Allegiance, Appearance
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/06/11/bragg-soldiers-who-cheered-trumps-political-attacks-while-uniform-were-checked-allegiance-appearance.html
If there is value at this late date to banning use of names on the losing side of the Civil War, I’d say start by banning use of “Democratic Party.”
"Hopefully we’ll see the need to name some stuff after the leftie assholes once they’re defeated."
My dog just took a dump in the backyard. That'd be as good a place to start naming stuff after leftist assholes as any.
I can see that it's now time to start reviewing a list of MOH winners, just to see if there are any names that we can have some fun with.
The Gulf of Mexico was once part of the Spanish Main. Renaming it to the Gulf of Mexico was insulting. Renaming it to the Gulf of America is equitable and inclusive.
Yes, the Democratic main of Confederate conspiracy was resoundingly defeated by the Blue states of the Union under Republican leadership.
When were the party colors transposed? We should honor the red color of Democrazi's eft-wing temperament and progression.
Somehow it's OK for the left to change whatever the hell they want, but it's an outrage if the right wants to change it back to what it was?
Nope.
Trump and Hegseth are actively and overtly transforming the U.S. military into a partisan political force, in violation of the Constitution. Meanwhile, Republicans in Congress remain silent as another pillar of the Republic crumbles.
These must be difficult times for you. I recommend that you squeeze a tennis ball 🎾 for anxiety release and steady your breathing.
I scroll past his crap, but he actually wrote that?
Good gawd. What an idiot.
No, I don't like it. I am generally pro-Trump but this is very much the sort of thing that unnerves me. - Assistant Village Idiot
You're due for a promotion.
The base names were part of a movement for national reconciliation. We were sending troops abroad and wanted the whole country to be on board with that, in spite of the Civil War. Many new bases were built in the South and local groups were allowed to suggest names for them. I suppose that did give some status to those groups, but nobody needed a base named after Leonidas Polk or Edmund Rucker to tell them that whites were in charge in the South back then.
Naming bases after soldiers with the same names as those Confederate generals? Big deal. It's chicken sh_t like so much else in today's politics. Renaming the bases the first time was chicken sh_t. So was "renaming" Seattle's county originally named after Vice President William R. King after Martin Luther King, Jr.
Given his military leadership atop Missionary Ridge in front of Chattanooga (lack thereof), I think it’s not at all unreasonable for the US Army to treat Braxton Bragg as though he had been a Union general. His position atop the ridge was thought to be impregnable, and so it was until Bragg mis-positioned his troops.
@Skeptical Voter, if anything Leonidas Polk was an even worse Confederate General than Braxton Bragg. He was a direct report to Bragg and if Polk ever overlooked an opportunity to engage in backstabbing his commander or otherwise demonstrate insubordination, that fact is lost to history. Unfortunately for the federal forces, an enterprising Union cannon battery with a well-earned reputation for accuracy used their skills later in the war to turn Polk into a smear of bone fragments and protoplasm.
If AOC had her way, Bragg would be renamed after Chelsea Manning.
Trump will rename downtown L.A. Ft. Sumpter.
“No, I don't like it. I am generally pro-Trump but this is very much the sort of thing that unnerves me.”
—— Assistant Village Idiot
Hold yer mud, soldier!
The Spanish Main was originally the land--the mainland of South America, not the islands or the sea.
But I was reliably told that men sailed the Spanish Main!
"But I was reliably told that men sailed the Spanish Main!"
A lubber's misconception, spread by Hollywood.
Gulf of Mexico is of colonial vintage. The waters have been known by a variety of names given to it by native and invading peoples over time.
If you promise not to tell, I still say Gulf of Mexico.
As far as sailors (and pirates) were concerned, the “Spanish Main” was the north coast of South America (along with Panama).
Amazing. A 5 -time college deferment draft dodger during the Viet Nam War, who only got those deferments because of his billion dollar father with political influence, now gets a full blown military parade on his birthday, complete with hundreds of millions of tax paid dollars, plus tanks, artillery, cannons, and thousands and thousands of armed military troops. As I have said before, the only other leaders who do this trash are the leaders of communist Russia, China, and North Korea. If Trump's military parade ends up with goose stepping storm troopers, then there will be a very real rebellion and insurrection, the likes of which we have never seen before.
Gulf of Mexico? Why? Mexico has a Spanish origin. It is loosely related to the Aztecs that colonized the area, oppressed the indigenous people, and followed progressive principles including performing human rites to exorcist "burdens" for social progress.
Amazing. A true conservative who can't stop spewing leftist bullshit.
I see a couple of people mentioned King County in Washington. I approve of that and think it's a good precedent. I liked that move and I like the move by Trump.
I swam competitively as a dependent at Camp LeJeune and have good memories of our trips to Ft. Bragg.
The Confederates were all losers - see Bull Meechum - the Great Santini ("All right, you sing "Dixie" and I'll sing "Battle Hymn of the Republic." I'll sing the winner's song and you sing the loser's song.")
If one side engages in underside and sneaky tactics, then I believe it is not on proper but mandatory to use those tactics in response. The only way you ever get someone to stop with underhanded shit is to show them that you're willing to not only return the favour, but to do so ten fold.
The art of the deal is to recognize the Gulf of Mexico in exchange for Mexico recognizing the United States of America.
I used to roll my eyes at the waste and expense of changing the names on the local highway signs every time a new state governor was elected.
I guess we're going to start doing the same with military bases, government buildings, and geographic landmarks every time we get a new party in the White House.
"A lubber's misconception, spread by Hollywood."
17th century buccaneers spent more effort to raid and loot the towns and settlements of the Spanish Main than intercepting galleons of the Treasure Fleet. Most of their vessels were far too small and weakly armed to overcome a galleon. By the time Cromwell started issuing Letters of Marque to buccaneer captains, Spanish galleons were starting to resemble the vessels that would evolve into 18th-century ships of the line. At the same time, Dutch East Indiamen were evolving in the same direction -- two gundecks with forty to sixty guns mounted on naval carriages. This is how England's Parliamentary navy manage to barely win a war against the Dutch and why they relied on Caribbean pirates to oppose the Spaniards.
The captains of the latter half of the Great Age of Piracy, men like John Rackham, Bartholomew Roberts, and Edward Teach, were able to raid Spanish ships at sea mainly because Spain became over-stretched fighting Louis XIV in Europe while at the same time experiencing very perplexing inflation that reduced her ability to maintain her fleet or to protect her colonies. It was the gold and silver flowing out of Mexico and Peru combined with very low, basically subsistence-level, productivity at home. Spain's Habsburg monarchs equated gold with wealth. Spain had more gold and silver coins in circulation than any three of the other European kingdoms combined, so why was Spain growing poorer?
jim5301 said...
Trump will never have anything significant named after him. Perhaps a prison, and a road here and there. And a few corrupt hospitality businesses. And a bookless library. No aircraft carriers. No spot on Mt. Rushmore.
**************
Sure as God nade little green apples there's a far better chance of Trump being carved onto Mt. Rushmore than there is ANYTHING beyond an untended headstone awaiting one ...jim5301.
lonejustice said...
Amazing. A 5 -time college deferment draft dodger during the Viet Nam War, who only got those deferments because of his billion dollar father with political influence, now gets a full blown military parade on his birthday, complete with hundreds of millions of tax paid dollars, plus tanks, artillery, cannons, and thousands and thousands of armed military troops. As I have said before, the only other leaders who do this trash are the leaders of communist Russia, China, and North Korea. If Trump's military parade ends up with goose stepping storm troopers, then there will be a very real rebellion and insurrection, the likes of which we have never seen before.
I always find it interesting when people like this show their true disdain for the Armed Forces.
But they are usually chickhawk neocons who have no problem starting wars.
LLR- democratical Li'l Abacus Boy Rich: "Not naming your country's military bases for traitors who waged war against your country seems like a good rule.
LOL
Not calling a Stolen Valor Jazzy Spirit Fingers Blue Falcon coward a literal " war hero" seems like a better rule.
Jim at: "Amazing. A true conservative who can't stop spewing leftist bullshit."
So very true.
Remember, LLR-democraticals Chuck, David Hogg fanboy Rich, the ever increasingly pathetic lonejustice and The Hopeless Gadfly each presented themslves on these boards as True "muh principles" lifelong conservatives.
Every one of them. And lonejustice's little tales of conservativism were some of the the most moronic of all.
They are leftists thru and thru, and clearly always have been.
And now I must return to quiet recuperation before Rusty yells at me again...and deservedly so. Full recovery expected in about 6 more weeks.
Rest up Drago!! We miss you here!!
👍 🤛 Drago!!!
nn @7:04pm… funny how things change and yet stay the same.
Get well soon Drago.
Drago, GET WELL SOON!!
Does it hurt when you laugh?
Robert E. Lee and his men killed over 110,000 US Army soldiers. Here's why that same Army must rename its military bases after him……
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