• Generally, I would think, it is the role of the President to take charge, to handle all problems, and to get things done. A "hands-on" President sounds like an effective, active President, so it sounds as though it is an objection to the elected President being President. That reads as anti-democratic to me.
• If these protesters were libertarian, the slogan "hands off" would make more sense. These would be people wanting government to do as little as possible. But even then, much of what Trump is doing is cutting back government, making it smaller, more like the libertarian ideas. The tariffs are an exception to that, but you get my point. His hands are ON many government programs for the purpose of ending them or cutting them back. The protesters want to preserve big government.
• I think the tariffs are a means to an end of eliminating the tariffs against us. If that's what's really going on then the tariffs are not an exception and could be characterized as getting government out of free trade.
• Trump has been making big moves that have won cooperation from his antagonists. I'm thinking of the universities and law firms that backed down when confronted with financial loss.
• He has good reason to think that huge moves are needed or people will just resist and drag it out and wait it out. He needs shock and awe. The response "hands off" seems weak. Who will "hands off" convince? How did that slogan emerge?
• If these protesters were libertarian, the slogan "hands off" would make more sense. These would be people wanting government to do as little as possible. But even then, much of what Trump is doing is cutting back government, making it smaller, more like the libertarian ideas. The tariffs are an exception to that, but you get my point. His hands are ON many government programs for the purpose of ending them or cutting them back. The protesters want to preserve big government.
• I think the tariffs are a means to an end of eliminating the tariffs against us. If that's what's really going on then the tariffs are not an exception and could be characterized as getting government out of free trade.
• Trump has been making big moves that have won cooperation from his antagonists. I'm thinking of the universities and law firms that backed down when confronted with financial loss.
• He has good reason to think that huge moves are needed or people will just resist and drag it out and wait it out. He needs shock and awe. The response "hands off" seems weak. Who will "hands off" convince? How did that slogan emerge?
All of that is for the annals of Things I Asked Grok. If you want to see how Grok answered, here's the link. Those are all prompts, by the way, so don't assume I believe all those assertions. It's a bit like teaching law school: You frame ideas to engage your interlocutor. You don't profess belief. You open things up for a better look.
One thing I saw is that the "Hands Off" slogan came from the abortion-rights discourse. But Hands Off My Body is a libertarian concept.
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92 comments:
The most fun Presidency ever.
I assumed the Hands Off stuff came from the Left's obsession with Trump The Pussy Grabber.
I got stuck in an elevator yesterday with this old crone who was eager to talk to me about the 'the Trump rallies today". I told her I wasn't interested, and she got an astonished look on her face and she started to sputter and shriek at me.
Yes, I live in a Florida blue county.
I wonder how many of these people think that the deficit is no big deal?
Their understanding of the ramifications seems to be quite child like.
I'm also convinced that "belonging" to a movement is essential in their world.
“But Hands Off My Body is a libertarian concept.”
Which applies equally to the bodies of the unborn, too.
It was hands off Social Security and Medicare. Trump hasn’t threatened either and, in fact, with DOGE cutting out the waste in both programs and in overall government spending both will be stronger.
The Omaha protest was a large one and it was at Memorial Park. Memorial Park is in Dundee where all the libs live.
The Omaha paper had a great picture of three old ladies screaming. Dumb and deranged.
I’m betting that “hands off” is a reference to Trump’s deportations — especially of the pro-Hamas “students” like Khalil and the illegal alien gang bangers. Maybe it’s also a reference to all the lefty government jobs and government contracts and programs that Trump has eliminated.
They have no idea what they are protesting. There was a call from INDIVISIBLE for them to show up and get their free protest sign so they can act all enraged because they are programmed to hate Trump and Elon by the Media.
The Trumpist position is that “democracy” means a president, by virtue of his popular election, can do anything he deems necessary to implement the policies he advocated as a candidate. The opposing view is that in a “constitutional democracy” there is a system of institutional checks and balances that always constrains the power of the president. To label aversion to unconstrained presidential power as “anti-democratic” is to expand the definition of “democratic” regimes to include authoritarian ones. Needless to say, this is a distinction Republicans have had no trouble grasping during Democratic presidencies. That partisans on either side of the ideological divide are inconsistent in recognizing the principle doesn’t mean it’s incorrect.
I really can’t believe how stupid 40% of the country is.
You'll get used to it, Dave.
Do the Work, ann.
Never ever ever outsource your thinking.
You're lazy like that. What good did you really do during all your years law professoring? Produce Sen. Tammy Baldwin appears to be your biggest claim to fame...
And feeding the old men here, providing a safe place for hate and bigotry. Find God in your work, ann. You're still dissatisfied, and loving a man like meade hasn't ended that...
Maybe adopt a child who has aged out of the foster system? There is still time to find a positive life's purpose. Accumulating money off your non-work isn't much in the end...
New Yorker
You knocked down a straw man. Trump can’t do anything he wants.
"Hands Off our Social Security!"
You know, what you boomers are currently collecting and enjoying, paid for by me? We just want what we paid in... why is that BigGovernment all of a sudden? You took too much, missy. Look at what your greed has done to the country your parents served coffee to protect?
I saw signs saying Hands Off basically everything from the Constitution to the federal workforce. It’s pretty much a temper tantrum, it’s so unfocused.
Conclusion of the post:
"One thing I saw is that the "Hands Off" slogan came from the abortion-rights discourse. But Hands Off My Body is a libertarian concept. "
Maybe, but that libertarian concept has been used as a cudgel to discourage reproduction - especially among the "deplorables" - and has been expanded to include perpetuation of administrative bloat and dictatorial rule by bureau-kleptocrats in the ongoing quest for power to the 'People," meaning the Almighty State.
Not enough giant puppets.
Hands off my uterus is the traditional slogan. You can buy a Tee Shirt, available in men and women. Available up to 3X large.
“Hands off of my graft! I’m stealing it fair and square!”
NYC let the Seniors out for a stroll yesterday.
https://x.com/immeme0/status/1908605511370760541?s=61
I suppose there are situations where a man would say "Hands off!" but none come readily to mind.
And re: my last post above, where are all the POC’s
Strictly speaking the middle finger fuck you sign doesn't work in the age of pantyhose, as LBJ observed.
Also fuck is not a verb so it not strictly tied to uteruses. Distinction of uterus and mention.
Free trip to NYC and $400.
@ Larry J
Bingo! That’s what the Democrat-aligned groups that organized the protests are saying.
I don’t think “hands off my body” applies to those Seniors at the link I posted above.
(I’m having way too much fun with this)
Our correspondent from New York isn't necessarily wrong. Partisans of both parties fall into the trap of believing there is a 'silent majority' that supports their efforts when they wind up on the losing side of an election. However, in the current moment only one side is claiming to be protecting that majority from the legitimately elected government in power.
My wife and I worked for the government or for lobbying groups for 30 years and found out how hard it was to make even small changes in government programs. I think the only way to make changes, particularly reducing the size of government, is to take the “burn it down” approach. Like with USAID, they ended up eliminating 83% of the programs and have kept the 17% that actually help our country. Burn it down, and start over. I really hope this works for the sake of reducing the burden of government.
Ann, thanks for taking the time to educate Grok (and New Yorker) with those excellent answers-posed-as-cruelly-neutral-questions.
Meade, you Da Man.
Creola Soul, my wife and I worked in government at the minor-minion to director level our entire careers. You are absolutely correct. Burn it down.
I think Breezy was correct. The wish is to hamstring Trump as he was in 2017. It isn't going to work because the Democrats don't control the House, the GOP has been able to orient on a Trumpian agenda, and Trump changed his approach.
"Hands off the unaccountable money that the Democrats have been funneling to us for these grass roots protests!"
“Hands Up!”… stop looting OUR treasury, progressive corksoakers.
“Bring some dynamite and a crane
blow it up, start all over again”
Hands off my money.
I see a lot of people pointing out that the organization of the protests comes from the usual suspects. True, but that doesn't mean the protests shouldn't be taken seriously. I don't believe these people are representative of the citizenry generally, but the intensity of their feeling has not abated. And hell, protesting is fun, as anyone who sported in a tricorner hit circa 2009 knows.
These morons have no idea what they're protesting, but the money and organization behind them do. It's hands off the Deep State.
The Trumpist position is that “democracy” means a president, by virtue of his popular election, can do anything he deems necessary to implement the policies he advocated as a candidate.
Actually that was Obama’s position.
Someone posted a bunch of signs on the Louisville subreddit.
The flyer for it said "A peaceful, nonviolent rally & march", so I assumed that's what they meant by "hands off" - no punching anyone.I believe they only had the rally, not the march, because we have gotten a tremendous amount of rain (6" to just over 7" over the last few days).
Maybe "Hands Off" is a new type of paid leave?
Too Much Time on My Hands
Now I'm a jet fuel genius
I can solve the world's problems
Without even trying
I've got dozens of friends
And the fun never ends
That is, as long as I'm buying
Is it any wonder I'm not the President
Is it any wonder I'm null and void
Is it any wonder I've got too much time on my hands
It's tickin' away with my sanity
I've got too much time on my hands
It's hard to believe such a calamity
I've got too much time on my hands
And it's tickin' away
Tickin' away from me
They (the left, progressives, Democrats, Marxists, antisemites) have put their stamp of approval on the continuation of corruption, fraud, massive waste, and the theft of America. They've given their blessing to it. They apparently not only approve of it, but are willing to fight for more of it.
As for the tariffs, there isn't a person among them who knows what's going to happen next.
I cannot wait to hear the tired old slogans the Democrats pull out- again- to run next year. Nothing is new except the organized funding of protests, parades, and other assorted leftist gatherings from the Pussy Hat Protest, to BLM protests, Antifa anarchy, and Hamas parades. Nothing has changed. Just the words on the signs handed out to people.
Trump's tariffs are not a means of eliminating tariffs against us. He's not raising tariffs just against countries which have high tariffs, he's raising tariffs against countries with which our balance of trade is a "deficit."
A "balance of trade deficit" sound bad, but it isn't. It just means that we buy more from a particular country than they buy from us. I have a huge trade deficit with my grocery store because I Have paid them thousands of dollars over the years and they have never bought anything from me. That doesn't mean they are ripping me off or that I should grow my own veggies. His mistake, which is commonly made by people who don't understand economics is to think that money is more valuable that he things we buy with money. It isn't. In the 16th century, Spain scooped up huge amounts of gold from Central and South America, and South America and melted most of it down and made coins. But they got little or nothing more to buy with it so the result was 400% inflation. Adam Smith explained this stuff in 1776 and most politicians have been ignoring it ever since.
The one good thing about these tariffs is that the economic devastation they are causing may convince some voters that tariffs aren't a good idea after all. Very, very few economists think high tariffs are a good idea except in special cases involving national security or environmental concerns. But many people think they mean American businesses and their employees will be better of. They don't, as we will see very soon.
All I see is old, White people, mostly women. As CDR Salamander says "The ratio remains unbroken."
Tariffs compensate for labor and environmental arbitrage that has been driving profits at the cost of progressive prices. As well as provide incentive for emigration reform, mitigate George 'Fentanyl" Floyd syndrome, hands off scalpels to relieve "burdens", etc.
"Granny" has a hands on vested interest in sustaining the kleptocracy through immigration reform, redistributive change schemes, outsourcing, profits through regulatory arbitrage, climate change credits, education loan refunds, stoking Diversity, Equivocation, and Incompetence, ethnic Springs, etc.
Hands off my hard earned money for you leftist grifting Solyndra.
Hands off my children and grand-children - you f*ing pedos.
"They (the left, progressives, Democrats, Marxists, antisemites) have put their stamp of approval on the continuation of corruption, fraud, massive waste, and the theft of America. They've given their blessing to it. They apparently not only approve of it, but are willing to fight for more of it. "
Also called "Rage builds!" for the boo hoo power obsessed corrupt left and their minions.
Styx is a bridge too far, wince! FFS.
Hands off my scalpel. Human rites are a progressive principle in liberal Democrazis under the aegis of American Civil Liberties Unburdened. A wicked solution to a hard problem: labor and environmental arbitrage, Diversity (EI), redistributive change, etc.
Roe, Roe, Roe your baby... "burden" down the river Styx is a religious rite in sanctuary states past, present, and progressive.
The term “hands off” goes way back. I remember back in the late 70’s the standard slogan from the lefties supporting the communists in El Salvador was “hands off El Salvador”.
An acquaintance, a white widow, early sixties, explained to me why she was taking part in the Hands Off here in Las Vegas. Mind you, I didn't ask. She is convinced that Trump and his oligarchy will ban abortion nationwide, take away our Medicaid and Social Security, and enact all of Project 2025. It seemed pointless to argue with her.
Hands off? Anti-vaxxxers?
Hands off... shared/shifted responsibility?
Alan said "The one good thing about these tariffs is that the economic devastation they are causing may convince some voters that tariffs aren't a good idea after all." Slow down there, buckaroo. The tariffs haven't caused any "economic devastation", yet. They might, they might not, I don't know how this will play out and neither do you.
"Hands Off" has roots going back at least to "Don't Tread On Me" and has simply been altered to fit another use, another need. That it comes off similarly to a little brother screaming in the back seat of a car, "Stop touching me!" has more to do with the users, not the phrase.
Hands off, human rites, wicked solution, Diversity... keep women affordable, available, reusable, and taxable, and the "burden" of evidence sequestered in sanctuary states.
Hands OFF our waste and corruption!!!
what do we WANT?
Waste and Corruption!!
when do we Want It?
ALWAYS!
Cultural appropriation and trans/formation?
"His mistake, which is commonly made by people who don't understand economics..."
Trump doesn't understand economics? Ok then.
I never can get over how stupid "Losertarianism" is. Yes, we want "smaller Government". As if "Government" is one big organization that does one thing. Its even more moronic when you apply it to International trade. Global trade is regulated by Governments. It always has been, and it always will.
The only question is what kind of trade deal is "The Government" going to negotiate? A one-sided one, that where we let their goods in for free, while they slap taxes on our goods? Or an equal one?
I wish all the free-traders would be honest. What they really mean when blather about "Freedom" and "The consumer" is, "I don't care how many other people lose their jobs to foreign imports. It doesn't effect ME. And I think the goods I buy will be cheaper and better"
Emphasis on "Think" - because we have zero idea what the Cost of an item would be if the foreign good had more American competition or was barred from the country.
That's selfish, but at least its honest. As opposed to all this blather about "smaller Government" or x-burts and their 'Theories".
BTW, historically the South has always been the land of "Free Trade" because it sold Cotton and Tobacco overseas and had almost no manufacturing. They didn't care about the effect of "Free Trade" on the whole country, they just thought having European/British Goods would be cheaper to buy.
Fortunately, other people prevailed and we were able to build the USA into the greatest industrial power in the 20th century.
If you're a chess player, think of this as the "Trump's Gambit" opening move. Very much like the "Queen's Gambit" that opens with an apparently stupid move to sacrifice a pawn, but not as likely to be turned into a Netflix mini-series.
My take on this opening move is that the underlying strategy is one very familiar to many of us chess aficionados, namely, when a player has calculated many moves ahead and sees that he is faced with certain defeat (such as when he is 37 trillion dollars in debt and there is absolutely no way to ever pay it off the way the rigged game is being played) so he makes that one unexpected outrageous move to flip over the chessboard and send pieces flying everywhere, with the entire tournament breaking out into fistfights.
Yeah, like that, the Trump's Gambit is a subtle signal that he's not going to play that game any more.
Bureaucrats and their allies really think they are entitled to taxpayers' money, $37T debt be damned. It's a disgusting attitude.
"That reads as anti-democratic to me."
The democracy train got to the Left's destination in 2008.
"To label aversion to unconstrained presidential power as “anti-democratic” is to expand the definition of “democratic” regimes to include authoritarian ones."
If Trump's exercise of presidential power were, indeed, "unconstrained", this critique might be relevant.
I remember sometime during Trump 45, there was an online buzz that Trump had small hands. I would wager someone with small hands can't handle as much as someone with big hands. Unless Trump identifies as a 'big, beautiful hands man'.
Then again, the small hands thing may have been more 'liberal propaganda bullshit'.
The one good thing about these tariffs is that the economic devastation they are causing may convince some voters that tariffs aren't a good idea after all.
Should that type of economic devastation ever materialize that could be an issue, yes but enough with the hyperbole. A modest pullback from the high water mark for equity indices due to the collective universe of inputs is financial catastrophe only to those who choose to ignore history in favor of trying to score political points…
Why the protests? The protestors don't know, just ask them, but the people funding them have their reasons, and they are not in the interests of the rest of us, including the protestors. It's big money being spent, and nobody does that for the reasons on those signs.
I see the feminist connection, but there's also a union connection. Hands off our bonuses. Hands off our pay increase or vacation time or sick days. It's not strictly a libertarian, anti-government slogan.
■
There isn't any one single "will of the people." People choose various representatives who fight it out among themselves. Every so often we reach the point where the fighting is more intense than usual. It has to be to get things done or to clear out the accumulated sludge. That too is part of democracy.
The "small hands" thing came from the 80s/90s satirical magazine Spy. Marco Rubio tried to revive that line in the 2016 debates. Trump was one of Spy's big targets. The other two that I remember were Abe Rosenthal of the NYT and bratpack novelist Bret Easton Ellis. There were plenty of other targets though.
Spy's editors were Graydon Carter and Kurt Anderson. The publisher, Thomas Phillips, Jr., was the son of the Raytheon CEO. Before him, the CEO was Charles Francis Adams IV of the presidential family. I always wondered what John and Abigail, or cranky Henry would have made of that progression.
Spy magazine always referred to Trump as a short-fingered vulgarian.
"Hands off" certainly is ironic, since it doesnt seem to apply to the democrats' allies in the teacher unions and transurrectionist public groomer system.
"Hands off" may also refer to that woman, Jean Carroll, accusations against Trump.
More subtle than "brains off". Less accurate than "bussed here to protest".
steer into the iceberg,
I'm not a believer as far as true Artificial Intelligence ever coming to be -- but the answers to Althouse's well-reasoned and complicated questions were surprisingly strong and, almost, reasoned.
I may have to rethink my position.
For the second time recently I saw a short, two sentence quote on Instapundit after a link and instantly recognized it as Althouse's work before hovering over the link.
It was this:
“The response ‘hands off’ seems weak. Who will ‘hands off’ convince? How did that slogan emerge?”
Such a small clue, but I had no doubt. Kind of strange.
@Rabel
You knew the lion by her claw.
Hands off!!!…our corruption and graft. I can’t get a real job! I just can’t…
Libertarianism emphasizes individual freedom and minimal government intervention, while liberalism generally supports a more active role for the government in promoting social justice and equality. The two ideologies can overlap, but they differ significantly in their views on the extent of government involvement in personal and economic matters.
Observe that The Don's interference in ignoring the law, blowing up the stock market, and firing employees without cause is bringing incredible personal and economic distress to all Americans. Billions of dollars have been lost in current market bailouts and reduction in 401(k) balances are still happening. I predict the trends will continue on Monday.
"Hands Off" the money that used to flow from the taxpayer's pocket to lazy government workers doing nothing productive, or to non-governmental organizations using it for left-wing politicking.
No one here remembers "Hands Off Cuba?"
No one here remembers "Hands Off Cuba?"
I do!
His mistake, which is commonly made by people who don't understand economics....
A guy who's been in business, for what, more than 40 years - and made billions doing so - doesn't understand economics. But you do.
Got it.
"What kind of trade deal is The Government going to negotiate? A one-sided one, that where we let their goods in for free, while they slap taxes on our goods? Or an equal one?"
Think again! Letting "their" goods into the US without a tariff means Americans get to buy those goods cheaper, whereas the foreigners whose countries impose tariffs on US goods have to pay more for those goods. American buyers benefit if tariffs are low or non-existent. American sellers/manufacturers may benefit from high US tariffs, which allow them to charge American buyers more, because the tariffs make competing foreign goods more expensive.
From the consumer's standpoint. the ideal situation is low or no tariffs anywhere. I assume that this is Trump's real objective -- I hope so, anyway.
"What kind of trade deal is The Government going to negotiate? A one-sided one, that where we let their goods in for free, while they slap taxes on our goods? Or an equal one?"
Think again! Letting "their" goods into the US without a tariff means Americans get to buy those goods cheaper, whereas the foreigners whose countries impose tariffs on US goods have to pay more for those goods. American buyers benefit if tariffs are low or non-existent. American sellers/manufacturers may benefit from high US tariffs, which allow them to charge American buyers more, because the tariffs make competing foreign goods more expensive.
From the consumer's standpoint. the ideal situation is low or no tariffs anywhere. I assume that this is Trump's real objective -- I hope so, anyway.
Trump's business was real estate, which is largely about politics, not economics. Owning land, by itself, isn't what makes people rich; it's getting permits to build on it that does. And you get those permits from politicians. Furthermore, Trump inherited a lot of money from his father. Some people have claimed that if he`'d invested that money in a diversified portfolio instead of going into real estate he'd be a lot richer than he is. Trump's main adviser on Tariffs is a lawyer, not an economist.
But you don't have to know much economics to see why tariffs don't work. History will do. We've had two rounds of steel tariffs in the past few administrations, and each time employment in the steel industry increased slightly and employment in the auto industry dropped a lot. The Smoot-Hawley tariffs of 1930 made the depression a lot worse than it had been. This weekend's issue of the Wall Street Journal reports that the heads of Ford and GM expect steep increases in the prices of their cars because of Trump's tariffs. Trump himself has admitted that his tariffs will raise prices.
So yes. I do know a lot more about economics than Trump does.
Alan wrote: " So yes. I do know a lot more about economics than Trump does.
I am in complete awe of your magnificence, as I am sure you are as well.
"Think again! Letting "their" goods into the US without a tariff means Americans get to buy those goods cheaper, whereas the foreigners whose countries impose tariffs on US goods have to pay more for those goods."
Yeah, here's an idea. Lets just let foreigners manufacture all our goods and sell them to us. Why we could all consume and make out like bandits! Of course, pretty soon, the foreigners would have used all their money to buy up all our assets, and we'd have massive unemployment. But hey, cheap consumer goods.
When people use this talking point, i dont even know how to react except with sarcasm. Its like people don't understand its not all about YOU - average consumer guy - buying cheap stuff. Why don't get rid of the sales tax, then you can get it even cheaper. And lets get of the income tax, because then you'll have even more money to buy cheap goods.
In fact, lets get rid of the Government, and think of all the money we'll save!
The reason is obvious to anyone keeping up with the ongoing erasure of service after service, program after program - but facts schmacts, amirite?
Enjoy your "Liberation" ... from relevance, leadership & the grown-ups' table.
The world is both wincing & laughing...
No, Jim. The world is finally paying attention. Our problem is now their problem. Only a fool would worry about what the rest of the world thinks of us. What they should be worrying about is what we think of them.
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