Said Alan Dershowitz, grading Trump on his first 100 days.
I'll bring up my question from yesterday: Does Trump know what he is doing? What if you had to argue that Trump knew what he was doing, that the seeming fiasco of the Canadian election was, in fact, exactly what Trump had in mind, a step in his genius plan?
ADDED: For the Annals of Things I Asked Grok (after quoting Alan Dershowitz):
Tell me the best justification. Maybe Trump is a genius and this is a multi-step process that he is seeing from a higher angle. Give him an A and explain why.
Grok's answer here.
FROM THE COMMENTS: New Yorker takes the assignment seriously:
Trump’s premise is that international relations should be transactional. Countries should treat one another as business partners or competitors. The sooner everyone recognizes that that’s the appropriate basis on which to negotiate deals, the better for the US—because, as the wealthiest and most powerful player, we’ll always have an advantage. Trump’s provocations were designed to get Canada to focus on that necessity. Going forward, Canadians will understand that they are obligated to placate the US: after initial resistance, and fruitless attempts to tie their economy more closely to Europe or China, they’ll accept their role as a US dependency. Getting Canada to that realization will take time and involve some recriminations, but in the long run it’s for the best to have both countries understand the truth of their relationship.
Posts
134 comments:
I hope DJT and his team know what they are doing.
I am more surprised to see Alan D say the "conservative" candidate was way better than the "liberal" candidate.
Canada is a hot mess. Both candidates sucked. Poilievre was a little better, but he turned into a little bitch after trump's trolling on 51st state stuff and that cost him I'm sure. China basically owns Canada now anyway.
Trump has been and remains a flawed vessel. Most of the things he's doing are good and necessary, but not everything. The world, including Canada, has been taking advantage of us economically for decades, with high tariffs on American imports. Trump is trying to level the playing field so that American companies and workers can compete.
I don't think that the verbal sparring with Canadian leaders and threats to make them our 51st state did us any favors. Canadians are the most similar people to Americans of any country in the world, culturally at least, but they aren't Americans and don't want to be. And since their political center of gravity is to the left of ours, most of us probably wouldn't want to add them to our electorate.
Since Canada and the U.S. are major trading partners, some kind of trade union with a sovereign Canada makes sense. But nothing beyond that really does.
It's like the girl with the fat, ugly friend - she looks that much better by comparison. So too, with the US. Trump knows that he's going to plunge us into the shitter but after the elections in Canada, he knows they will go in faster and deeper. Thus, we will look good by comparison.
Chris, good point about China owning Canada. And with a lefty PM, Trump will be free to point out every single instance of ChiCom influence. Kind of like he did with Panama.
Someone's gotta keep discipline in the Anglosphere.
JSM
Ignoring the double standards for conservatives for the moment (bother to ask if Biden knows what he’s doing?) there’s two winning game theory strategies in play with Trump- tit for tat and be hawkish when others are dovish. Trump mixing things up with Canada while he’s working towards trade equivalencies, they complement each other…
Well, the Canadians really taught us a lesson! They got so mad they fucked themselves in spite. It used to be a great country, a long long time ago. However will the United States get by without their friendship, their maple syrup, the fentanyl and illegals crossing our northern border?
The Conservatives got the vote share they were always predicted to get. In early modeling that made a Conservative PM. But Canada is a Parliamentary system and there's a sizable far left party. That party support evaporated to give the Liberals a win. There was never going to be a Conservative win. So many people are getting this wrong.
I also find it borderline offensive that so many people are pretending to care about Canadian elections. Canada means nothing to us.
Dershowitz‘s list of particulars against Trump were (1) inviting 51st statehood and (2) tariffs. Statehood is like an equity offer, rare and should hardly been taken as an insult. Moe Green was insulted by a buy-out offer, not partnership with the Corleone family. Either way, Trump’s offer was a free trade zone, the opposite of tariffs. So what’s the complaint about Trump on tariffs? This election exemplifies why Canadian statehood would be fraught in the first place.
I don’t buy the premise- Canadians had a complete reversal of their politics because of something Trump said? The benefit of exposing how fickle Canadians are, how lacking in political conviction they are would far outweigh some perceived deficit now that the liberal won…
…also, how absurd his foes look when they try to ding him by affirming Canada electing a liberal is catastrophic…
Canada is in the process of going to hell in a handbasket -- like great britain. we need canada to be outstanding, or at least not failing, and especially not an enemy. trump is firing a shot across their bow saying wake up! pay attn! you need to fix this, that and the other and time is short.
Cry me a river.
He has no clue what he is doing. The way he *honestly* didn't understand how the "tattoo" photos had the letters MS-13 added above the depicted tattoos reveals a Joe Biden level of incompetence, senility, and unsophistication. Holy shit, does this emperor lack clothes. He is as retarded as Joe Biden 100%.
I really don’t care. Do you?
If Canadian boomers want to sell their grandchildren's future because Orange Man shitposts at them a little, then that seems more like a damning indictment of them as being fundamentally unserious people, if not traitors to their descendants.
Or are Canadians too immature to be held morally accountable for their decisions and actions?
Four years ago at this time Trump appeared disposed into the dustbin of history. But here he is back in the Oval Office. That alone gives me pause anytime I think of Donald as stupid or reckless. We'll never really be able to judge the guy until January 20, 2029.
What was more cringy? The Belichick video or the Trump video? These old pants shitters belong in the nursing home with Sleepy Joe!
One simple story would be that Canadians voted for Justin T, then found him increasingly embarrassing. There was an attempt to charge capital gains tax on boomer cottages. Voters could go back to the Liberals when this idea was dropped.
What is Trump thinking? If Greens help to weaken the Canadian oil and gas industry, this helps the US achieve self-sufficiency.
Canada is run by nice people doing what nice people always do, starting with Mark Steyn long ago, and Jordan Peterson.
Canada wants to send Dogbert to reeducation camp or lose his psychology license in spite of him not having one, "Sounds oddly aggressive for Canadians" remarks Dilbert. Peterson asks for the original art.
Only thing I can see is that Trump did not want Poilievre make him look bad.
Trump shares a trait with every other Republican President I've seen in my lifetime. His critics seem to oscillate between viewing him as either a diabolical genius with mind-control powers or an incompetent doofus, with occasional detours into the current evaluation that he's an incompetent doofus because he didn't use his mind-control powers to achieve something they say would benefit him. Why we should take his critic's word that a particular circumstance is to Trump's benefit is rarely explained, and it always seems his mental powers land on whatever side of the argument necessary to claim what he did was wrong.
Attributing Carney's election (which is not as overwhelming as some headlines suggest) to Trump simply ignores what else was happening in Canada. Justin Trudeau was monumentally unpopular, and the Liberals had been less popular than Conservatives since the summer of 2022. The Liberal recovery started literally the day after Trudeau announced he would resign pending the selection of a new Liberal Party leader, and the climb continued through March when Carney was selected over the equally unpopular Freeland for the top spot.
Maybe a different approach by Trump could have resulted in a Conservative victory but after the Liberals ditched Trudeau that was by no means as certain as people keep claiming based on those events.
I'm not claiming that what Trump did was right but more directly pointing out that "Trump planned this" or "Trump let this happen" is analysis that starts with the assumption that whatever Trump did was wrong (or right) and then works backwards justify that conclusion.
You can’t in one breath say Trump is too dangerous and in the next demand politics needs to be a handicap tournament where Democrats are heavily subsidized and entitled to real, actual, catastrophic fuck ups….
Trump is dope-slapping every country that's ridden our coattails since WWII. Time for the teenagers to find a job; daddy's tired of paying their bills.
And Trump knows that management of the Arctic is critical. Canada (and Denmark) need to give us their territory or get in the game.
"It's like the girl with the fat, ugly friend - she looks that much better by comparison."
Is that a thing?! That sounds off to me.
D.D. Driver said...
He has no clue what he is doing. The way he *honestly* didn't understand how the "tattoo" photos had the letters MS-13 added above
Please provide evidence that Trump believed the clear text characters were part of the tattoo.
Here, let me help you:
The experts and researchers we spoke with acknowledged the tattoos could carry gang-related symbolism, but they said the markings alone are not reliable indicators of membership. They also cast doubt on Trump's claims that the marijuana leaf represents an "M," the smiley face "S," the cross "1" and the skull "3."
One factor: Trump knows that only Leftists are allowed to break the rules and get away with it while having the Media praise them, so having Carney there may allow Trump to get some deals done during the tariff negotiations for which Poliviere's hands would have been tied. I don't know why the majority of Canadian voters cited Trump as their motivation to vote for Carney when they have so many domestic problems that would, if I were Canadian, have concerned me more than what Trump says.
It is a strange world, and the big orange catalyst does have a way of inducing reactions in people that are inexplicable. Or in order to explicate it one must accept that there is a global corruption so ugly they have to act like this to suppress news of it becoming common.
The D.D. stands for Disingenuous Dummy.
I can't answer this question. Trump isn't a genius. He is a TV showman and real estate developer from the outer boroughs who successfully pushed the populist button and is fortunate in his domestic enemies. His executive orders are tears in the rain unless they are followed up with legislation. His goofing on Canada and Greenland is needlessly antagonistic. He really is not going to make any headway with either Russia or China. His comments about tariffs are a consistent denial of reality. Trump 2.0 is not an improvement on Trump 1.0. He is headed for disaster later this year. His saving characteristic may be his utter lack of principle--he can turn on a dime and declare victory with apparent complete conviction.
Taking the assignment seriously: What’s the best argument that Trump’s intervention in the Canadian election made sense?
Trump’s premise is that international relations should be transactional. Countries should treat one another as business partners or competitors. The sooner everyone recognizes that that’s the appropriate basis on which to negotiate deals, the better for the US—because, as the wealthiest and most powerful player, we’ll always have an advantage. Trump’s provocations were designed to get Canada to focus on that necessity. Going forward, Canadians will understand that they are obligated to placate the US: after initial resistance, and fruitless attempts to tie their economy more closely to Europe or China, they’ll accept their role as a US dependency. Getting Canada to that realization will take time and involve some recriminations, but in the long run it’s for the best to have both countries understand the truth of their relationship.
"It's like the girl with the fat, ugly friend - she looks that much better by comparison.”
Ann Althouse responded…
“Is that a thing?! That sounds off to me.”
I interpreted the “she” after the dash as referring to the girl and not the friend. And, yes, I have definitely seen that happen.
This link goes to a fairly detailed analysis, written by a Canadian, of the election, and the state of play in Canada:
https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=841240&post_id=162498215&utm_source=post-email-title&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=h0gc1&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyODU3NDY0MSwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTYyNDk4MjE1LCJpYXQiOjE3NDU5NjkxNzAsImV4cCI6MTc0ODU2MTE3MCwiaXNzIjoicHViLTg0MTI0MCIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.pMwt7vkDLrkcgPnzIAMwwLWxbIcI4IEY19WdIl1_hxg
I hope it isn’t paywalled.
A fundamental point is that Canada is a mess, with a fair amount of antagonism between the western provinces and the rest of Canada.
So it is possible that Trump wanted another Liberal government the keep gooning things up so that Alberta would vote to secede — apparently an easy thing to do — and join the US.
It isn’t a short read, but is well worth the time.
Ah Howard (NTH) goes there: Here, let me help you:
The experts and researchers we spoke with acknowledged the tattoos could carry gang-related symbolism..."
And this is why we should always trust "experts." Their infallible ability to overlook (1) a judge determining he was in danger because a RIVAL GANG (how does that happen?) would hurt him in Honduras, (2) two law enforcement agencies said he was a MS-13 gangster who was caught human smuggling, (3) his wife's ex filed a court document trying to get his kids back from living with a "known MS-13 member," (4) and he was ordered deported by another judge who noted his "admitted gang affiliation" when booting him out of America.
None of it will convince leftists who will take Van Hollen's word for it over the widely available evidence.
Trump joked around about Canada Being our 51st state.
Now - he should have kept his mouth shut - because everyone on the left and many on the right lose their minds when Trump jokes around like that. and yes - loose lips sink ships.
Trump does still get in his own way.
How do we know Dershowitz premise is true? Maybe it is, I don't know. It's the media narrative, so I'm skeptical.
But think about it. This narrative is far more critical of Canadians than Trump. This narrative says that Canadians elected their most important leader, not because they thought he was the best man with the best policies, but to poke Donald Trump in the eye. Really?
According to the poll numbers cited by Dershowitz, a majority of Canadians believed P.P. had the correct policies, the correct governing philosophy, the better character, and offered a brighter future, but they stopped caring about all that and screwed themselves and their kids because they got in a snit over a crack by the President of another country. Are they that emo? Or is the situation is more complicated than that.
I hope so, because if this is how they operate, maybe being a mere state would be the best thing for the place.
I agree that Trump hurt the election for conservatives in Congress. It was no A performance, but who got an A then? Carney?
Pierre Poilievre lost his own ministry seat as well as losing to Carney. At some point, I have to give Canadian’s agency, and they did this. I don’t Trump caused a minister to lose his own seat. Trump wasn’t to good at doing that in the US.
Carney had to win by downplaying his agenda. It wasn’t hard to find, but he didn’t push it on the trail. He won by making Trump the issue. Canadians that fell for that have only themselves to blame. All of us know it. They can say “but Trump said 51st state”, yet everyone knew Trump could only do what Canadians wanted. Apparently they want more misery. Don’t blame Trump for the choices you make.
"I interpreted the “she” after the dash as referring to the girl and not the friend."
So did I.
"And, yes, I have definitely seen that happen."
You saw the inside of another person's head. I think not. I think you projected something that is in your mind.
The original statement sounded "off" to me because I think it is what men think of women. If you see 2 women and one is more attractive than the other, why do you think that happens? I don't think it's that the better looking one is trying to set up a contrast to make herself look better! That's a man's idea, looking down on women.
I voted for Trump because the alternatives sucked. On the republican side we have the usual assortment of Bush, McCain, Romney, Schwarzenegger - muh tax cuts and war mongering conservatives. On the democrat side we had Harris - DEI retard who loves identity politics. Does Trump know what he is doing - most of the time no he does not. In a sane universe he would never get elected to president let alone dog catcher. He is a crude carny grifter. But we live in an insane world where the alternatives are actually worse than Trump.
Someone on X said Alberta just passed a bill to make it much easier for them to secede. 208k signatures to get it on the ballot instead of 600k. We'd look pretty funny with Alberta sticking up, but perhaps they'll settle for being a self-governing territory.
Is that a thing?! That sounds off to me.
It's the general theory behind Dem VP candidate selection.
Gore
Biden
Kamala
Walz
Grok never answers my questions with a HUGE essay! No wonder AI is irresistible to undergrads. Well, that and the fact they can't read and write anyway.
I was born in New Jersey, raised in Ohio, and currently live in Toronto. Trump is the reason Liberals were re-elected on Monday.
I don't know if Trump knows what he's doing. Maybe he doesn't care who runs Canada, but Canadians felt blindsided by the tariffs and the 51st state nonsense (it's a joke to my American relatives, but Canadians are furious).
They feel like they have been good neighbors and they've been betrayed. It will take along time to repair relations.
Women are in constant mean competition with one another. It’s not a man’s idea, it is the product of evolution - ruthless cruel evolution.
Trump should respond to Dershowitz by having Pam Bondi actually release the Epstein pedophile list that's still sitting on her desk.
No way of knowing for certain, of course, but consider whether or not Trump wants all of Canada as the 51st state… It strikes me that Alberta and maybe Saskatchewan, which have a sizable secession sentiment, are the real prize. Just a thought.
When my girl friend and I would get dressed to go out on the town, she would evaluate us and say, "Which one is the mushroom tonight?" She was always much happier when I was the mushroom.
This looks a lot like the 2020 U.S. Senate runoff elections in Georgia. The Conservative Party of Canada didn’t embrace the crazy, so Trump have Poilievre the Mitch McConnell treatment.
What happened is that the liberals, who pay millions and millions to the Canadian press, and are the only thing keeping most of them in their job, took the opportunity to run against Trump, because they were going to get thrown out.
Europe is doing the same thing, the same fascist cutouts for the WEF who are running Canada are running Western Europe. They have complete control of the press, and whenever any opposition leader with different ideas gets too powerful, they arrest them, outlaw their opposition, democracy is lost.
But yeah, Trump got beat on that one. Yes the Canadians were lied to about Trump wanting to buy Canada, that Trump had some unreasonable demands, like you know, controlling the flow of fentanyl into their ports so that it didn't leak over the border, and making it harder for migrants to do things like destroy their passports in flight, the passports they needed to get on the plane, BTW, and claim asylum, then leak across the border into the US. These demands were never even talked about.
"Propaganda is to democracy what the truncheon is to a dictatorship." —Some wag on X.
Canada has been coasting on that space arm for way too long. Does anybody even use it anymore?
Musk should program it to curl its fingers and make a jack-off motion, post the video on X. That would be something he'd think was funny. His sense of humor is almost as juvenal as mine.
This makes sense to me:
"So it is possible that Trump wanted another Liberal government the keep gooning things up so that Alberta would vote to secede — apparently an easy thing to do — and join the US."
I thought a bit about voting for Harris for the same sort of reason. Maybe she'd have messed so badly that people would figure out that having the government micromanage everything wasn't a good idea. Now what I'm hoping for is that voters may realize that what nearly all economists think about free trade is right.
I spend my summers on the Canadian border in the US. I used to spend a decent amount of money in Canada. I can live without it.
Hey Skipper said...
This link goes to a fairly detailed analysis, written by a Canadian, of the election, and the state of play in Canada:
...
So it is possible that Trump wanted another Liberal government the keep gooning things up so that Alberta would vote to secede — apparently an easy thing to do — and join the US.
To be fair to Grok; that is essentially the analysis it provided. But then, Grok didn't think up that opinion but rather cobbled together various other opinions that supported Trump as genius argument, and Grok may read Substack.
A big chunk of my family lives in Canada- I will note that they generally don't like the USA. They arrived there in the late 1890's, but still seem to hold a grudge about other Canadians being forced to leave the original colonies back in the the late 1700's. They still think it's a slap in the face that they weren't allowed to move closer to the soviets in the 1960's to help perfect socialism.
I also live and work in Detroit where around 20 percent of my co-workers cross the bridge every day from Canada to work. As a rule I would say the majority detest the Canadian government, complain about Dominion voting machines running the country, and many understand that China has been buying Canadian elections for many years. Several still point out constantly that Canadians are still the 5th most heavily armed civilian group on the planet, at least until the Canadian government gets around to confiscating all those arms that were made illegal in the last few years. The Canadian government knows this as well, which is why they immediately shut down personal bank accounts whenever there is the least bit of social unrest.
I read a report in February that as a whole Canadians are subject to 100 percent government controlled TV and radio from birth. The highest percentage on the planet. Canada may seem like the most benign place on the planet, but it is in reality a dystopian hell hole.......................................
Bob Boyd said...
Canada has been coasting on that space arm for way too long. Does anybody even use it anymore?
No. The Canada Arm was only for the Space Shuttle. Supposedly Canada helped with the design and funding of the ISS Arm, but it was built by Boeing, not Canada.
DJT became an issue in the Canadian election.True.
If DJT being an American R or C did not hurt the Canadian "Conservative", then the DJT issue was a variable to be addressed by all candidates. Did the "Liberal" candidate handle it better than the "Conservative" candidate?
Are all politics global? Does an American C or R president drive up foreign L or D turnout?
Clyde,
Canada is not and never has been a "sovereign" nation.
They are subject to the king of England (and Canada, St Lucia, Australia etc)
Their king may be sovereign, though subordinate to his other king of England crown
John Henry
Kate at 716 - That was funny and wise.
Unrelated but related. I know it will never happen, but I wish Greenland and all of Canada would join the USA. Maybe about 10 new states. There would be challenges, yes. But I go with glass half full.
Althouse--you are doing the same thing with your Grok manipulation as Kak does. Why? You tell it the conclusion you want and the bias you want, and you get the blather you ask for. What is the point?
If Alberta were to become part of the us, it would make the map of the us look like it had a giant middle finger.
Aimed at who? Canada? Rest of the world?
Might be worth annexing just for the visual.
John Henry
“ His sense of humor is almost as juvenal as mine.”
ISWYDT
Trump’s decision to help the Liberals in Canada is only the second most retarded this he did in his first 100 days.
His 18th century view of how the world works (territorial expansionism and mercantile economics) will leave the US worse off strategically and economically.
No, and he never has known what he was doing.
In his 1st term he had a bunch of adults around him, John Kelly for instance, to keep him somewhat normal. Late in that term they had mostly been replaced with sycophants, like Mark Meadows. That resulted in a disastrous response to the pandemic and subversion when he lost the election.
This term, all boot-licking toadies, so trump gets to act out anyway he wants. Me, I'm for a trade war with China (though a little intelligenece would help) and sensible immigration (we do need low-level labor, and there is even a place for jack-booted thuggery). But these random nonsense policies: bow down Canada, the tariffs will set you free, gimme rate cuts, ...
YD?INESID
The humor is getting improbably sophisticated!
I was all did you mean to suggest etc etc etc and Meade is like "yes!"
Boyd simul-posted with me.
Canada has a strong socialist bent to their social fabric. One can see this with their socialized medicine, with the euthanasia policies, and with the government's grip on authority, even when it flies in the face of established law - witnessing the times during the trucker's strike when funds raised charitably in other countries were siezed and the fundraising institutions shuttered, when personal property and money was seized without process. This angered Canadians almost enough to say something - which is to say, they were mad, but forbearance runs much deeper there than it does in the USA.
What this election proved is that the path of their political / social progress is largely unchanged. The campaign was very professionally done and was expertly managed by the very best globalist service providers, who were determined not to let another populist come to power. How many popular candidates were removed from the race? I counted at least 3, removed in the same way that Bernie was in 2016. Canadians are going to regret who they elected. I think Donald Trump can be credited with influencing the outcome, but I doubt that his talk about tariffs and '51st State' determined it. This was not a 'change' election, and Mark Carney is the opposite of a 'change' candidate.
Political Junkie said...
Unrelated but related. I know it will never happen, but I wish Greenland and all of Canada would join the USA. Maybe about 10 new states. There would be challenges, yes. But I go with glass half full.
4/30/25, 7:37 AM
————————-
What woukd be gained by this? People complain about other countries leeching off the US and yet advocate admitting places that would be a greater drain on the US treasury as states because they are poorer than the US.
Also none of the Cultists seem to consider the electoral implications of admitting places that would vote overwhelmingly prog.
Ten states you say? How would the country be better of handing 8 Senate seats (or even 2) to the Democrats?
I completely agree with Dershowitz on this. This is who Trump is. He has a habit of shooting himself in the foot on many topics, in various arenas. He does great things, unexpected great things, but he also does a ton of shooting himself in the foot. He is his own worst enemy.
This is who he is, it is what makes him either refreshing to some or abhorrent to others.
But when it comes to geopolitics and international relations, it can be very tough to cover up for. And in this case, this is Trump shoving his foot so far up his mouth that even he cannot talk his way around it. What he did seems just plain stupid. I voted for him- twice and I knew what we were getting. I was willing to take the weird stuff as long as we got the disruption in our own governing processes that are so needed. I did not expect him to disrupt what was a clear and needed change in direction for Canada.
All that said, I'm still amazed how all of Canada seemed offended by Trump's declaring he wanted to make them the 51st state. Hilarious, but how could any breathing adult take that seriously, let alone run for office on it?
Well...all of Canada took that seriously. And they voted for the guy who sounded like a vacuous US Democrat promising to stop Trump and stop the oceans from rising at the same time.
Good God. Canada is in trouble.
Tim McGuire (7:10) - Yeah.
Again - Trump needs to stop the bravado. His super-fans love it - but it's often a big turn off or more.
“ INESID”
Isn’t that a golf ball maker, based in Canada?
AMDG - You raise good points. I am about to get on with a client, so will let your points stand. I point to Louisiana Purchase in 1803 as a model. There were reasons to be against that also.
Dersh is right. This was an unforced error. The original folly was compounded by the election eve or election day tweet. By that point it was already too late, but why make things worse? The reason for Trump's mistakes may be that Canada is a convenient punchline (or punching bag). "South Park" hated Trump, but they couldn't resist the target either.
Aren't all international politics in some sense 'transactional'? Nations look after their interests. We can dress it up with a lot of fine rhetoric, but we shouldn't be too deluded by the rhetoric.
YD?INESID = You did? I'm not even sure I do
"Boyd simul-posted with me."
Does that involve sex robots? Because it sounds like it might involve sex robots.
I am Laslo.
Canadian here.
I think New Yorker has it mostly right. Canada is a vassal state of the United States. It is a position we should (and mostly do) cherish.
The single most important Trump complaint is military spending. Canada has absolutely failed here.
It is no accident that Trump said 51st state in the final days of the campaign. It was a good, but minor, push for voters to elect Mark Carney.
Where this comment thread is completely wrong is on Mark Carney. I voted Conservative but still: Mark Carney is an incredibly impressive person with a skill set unique on the global stage.
Mark Carney can serve to play what is a traditional Canadian role for the Americans. As a vassal state, Canadian leaders often get latitude in foreign policy and therefore represent the happier side of American capitalism.
Carney understands better than any world leader OR for that matter, most of Trump's cabinet, what the basic problem is with US debt as the global reserve currency. Carney understands the urgency of the American crisis at this moment.
Trump and Carney will quickly cut a deal and Carney will play good cop to Trump's bad cop but always under the direction of Trump. Carney will give Trump a Rhodes-scholar, central-banker, ivy-league patina.
Poiliever, who a deeply like and wish were PM, could never shine so brightly from the window of the Trump store as Carney can.
Trump absolutely knew what he was doing.
I love how people have demoted Canadians to single issue voting retards in order to support their world view that Trump isn’t doing well.
Some people are just desperate in their delusions and stupidity.
The Art of the Deal. A short attack drives the stock down, making the takeover that much cheaper. On a personal note, tourism in Canada will cost that much less, when the Canadian dollar is down to US 50 cents.
I can understand how the 51st state jab was insulting, but really, Canadian's reaction reveals a sense of insecurity. I guess it's tough being the US's inferior little brother.
It is as if the Trump haters want to believe Canadians are as stupid as they are.
"That alone gives me pause anytime I think of Donald as stupid or reckless."
That doesn't stop a lot of people. Many are saying "I don't understand what Trump is doing, so that means he's an idiot."
The Boomer angle on this is noticeable. When Trump was growing up, tariffs were still an issue and American spirits were buoyed by the two new states. His enthusiasms are a survival from those days. In the Canadian election, Trump was "the issue" for many Canadian Boomers, still fighting old wars. Younger Canadians were more interested in real-life issues that affected their jobs and housing.
At some point Pat Buchanan wrote a column about annexing Canada or part of Canada. Maybe Buchanan was also trying to connect with that postwar American high. For some reason, he did an interview on Canadian television when he was running for president, and David Frum's mommy, who was a big deal in Canadian media gave him a hard time about it.
Ann Althouse said…
“ You saw the inside of another person's head. I think not. I think you projected something that is in your mind.”
I know the stereotype of us men is that we are only capable of communicating in monosyllabic grunts about food or sex, but we are capable of introspective thoughtful conversations with our peers about the nature of the world around us - both the natural and social spheres.
And those conversations do include both men and women, some of whom have always been plus sized and have often had the most to say about their experiences when the topic of the phenomenon in question came up.
And the phenomenon has nothing to do with the male point of view. It is a rough corollary of the adage that “women dress for other women, not for men”.
This whole, Trump caused the Liberals to get re-elected, is such stupid propaganda. First, its impossible to prove. Secondly, it assumes Canadian voters are idiots. And third its unsupported by the facts.
Canada is - from a USA perspective - a very leftwing country. The last time Canada elected a MAJORITY tory government was in the 1980s. Since 2010, Canada has had 5 elections, in 3 them the Tories got about 33 percent, and in the other two they got 41 percent.
The Cons were doing so well in polls, because people were tired of the clownish Justin Trudeau. Once he was replaced the voters just went back to the same ol' some old.
You tell it the conclusion you want and the bias you want, and you get the blather you ask for. What is the point?
Well, I'd say the point is to see what the steelman argument for the opinion you don't already hold is. If you just can't see, yourself, why Trump would antagonize Canada, but you do hold to the view that he must have had SOME reason, why not pool the Internet to see what people are saying that you're not getting?
It's pretty far from there to what Kak does, ISTM - wallowing in confirmation bias.
Oso Negro said..."Well, the Canadians really taught us a lesson!"
Heh.
I read a story yesterday of a Canadian woman who scours labels at the grocery store so that she can avoid US products. It has doubled the time it takes her to shop. But she's really sticking it the US, so I guess it's worth it. Whatever floats your boat.
Sorry, POLL the Internet
Poet Standish O'Grady who immigrated to
Canada from Ireland, looked around, and went back to Ireland.
The lank Canadian eager trims his fire,
And all around their simpering stoves retire;
With fur clad friends their progenies abound,
And thus regale their buffaloes around;
Unlettered race, how few the number tells,
Their only pride a cariole and bells!
To mirth or mourning, thus by folly led,
To mix in pleasure or to chaunt the dead!
To seek the chapel prostrate to adore,
Or leave their fathers' coffins at the door!
Perchance they revel; still around they creep,
And talk, and smoke, and spit, and drink, and sleep!
In 2021, the NDP which is a self-identified socialist party got 17 percent of the vote, In 2025 it got 6 percent. Almost all those voters went to the Liberals. First, because their leader was terrible. Second, because they supported everything the liberals did. If you were a leftwing Canadian there was zero reason to vote for them.
The other reason the Cons lost was they were just a liberal-lite. The Cons basically agreed with the Liberals on everything - except they were just going to spend more on defense, help business a little more and make the trains run on time. Its like Massachutes Republican Party.
Canada doesn't have a 1st admendment, and their Censorship laws are even stronger then the USA's. when the truckers went to ottawa, Trudeau acting like a tinpot dictator declared a "National emergency" and had them dispersed and some were thrown in jail. The leaders were tracked down and had their bank accounts frozen and tried on bogus charges.
No one was upset about this exercise of naked power, except a few Rightwingers. Most Canadians are leftists. If they lived in the USA they'd be Bernie Bros or AOC supporters.
Rusty said...
"Cry me a river."
I'm old, but I'm not senile. Somebody is using my name. I didn't post this.
Canada is being Canada. Who cares? In about two years they're going to rioting in the streets because the liberal government can't cover all the promises they've made.
Alberta is going to make a great 51st state.
Howard (not that Howard) said: Please provide evidence that Trump believed the clear text characters were part of the tattoo.
Not that Howard, scroll to 21:30 in the interview video and watch the next few minutes after that:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/full-transcript-trumps-exclusive-100-days-broadcast-interview/story?id=121291672
Trump is forcing Canada to the left for good reasons. Soon Canada will go bankrupt and the Western Providences will be ripe for ANNEXIATION AS THE 51ST STATE... I kid you not folks...Western Canada is conservative. The liberals live in the East (French) part.
Expect some Providences to pull out of Canada and petition to join the USA.
A country can become a U.S. territory through a process that generally involves the following steps:
Political and Diplomatic Negotiations: The process often begins with political negotiations between the U.S. government and the governing body of the country seeking territory status. This can occur through treaties, purchases, or other political agreements.
Legislation: Congress must pass legislation to formally incorporate the territory into the United States.
Approval from the Territory’s Population: In some cases, a referendum may be held to gauge the support of the territory's population for becoming a U.S. territory.
Establishment of a Territorial Government: Once the legislation is passed and the territory is formally recognized, a local government is established. This government typically operates under the authority of the U.S. federal government but has some degree of autonomy.
Integration into the U.S. System: The new territory may be integrated into the U.S. system, which includes the application of certain federal laws, the establishment of a local legal system, and the potential for representation in Congress (though territories typically have non-voting delegates).
Historically, territories have been acquired through various means, including war (e.g., Puerto Rico after the Spanish-American War), purchase (e.g., the U.S. Virgin Islands), and treaties (e.g., the Louisiana Purchase). Each situation can have unique circumstances that influence the process.
I’m catching a “he’s a total genius or a total idiot” vibe from Althouse. Hope she snaps out of it because it across to me as petulant.
Since I don’t know what Trump’s goals are relative to Canada I find it impossible to assign a grade to this episode. For instance if his only goal was to humiliate Trudeau and he otherwise didn’t particularly care what the outcome of Monday’s election was, then Trump obviously deserves an A, or perhaps an A-. Trying post hoc to guess what Trump’s goals are using Grok, much less an anti-Trump opinion piece like the New Yorker, is an empty exercise.
Consider that the goal wasn't Canada as a 51st state but, rather, Alberta and Saskatchewan as the 51st state. How best to bring that about? Now, accepting that hypothetical, take a look at the election outcomes by province- what do you see?
I point this out because Canada as a whole would a great benefit to the Democratic Party if it became the 51st state and it would all be a wash if the provinces all came in as unique states. Better for Republicans to simply peel off the two most conservative provinces as a single state.
Who cares about Canada? By refusing to support Republicans, Trump swung the 2020-21 Georgia Senate elections to Democrats, thereby handing the Senate to Joe Biden, burdening the nation with the Inflation Reduction Act, and ceding countless judicial appointments to Democrats. Trump is King Midas in reverse.
Alberta doesn't have to become a US state. It has the option of becoming an independent nation. It's per capita GDP is higher than France, the UK or Italy.
Wow! A little shit talk from outside the country can turn an election that the shit talker is not even part of. Pretty powerful stuff. The CIA should capture Trump and turn him into a super weapon to change governments around the world. They've been doing it the hard way for decades. Trump, what can't he do?
Or Canadians are idiots and either like socialism or hate Trump enough to ruin themselves with it.
OK, OK, now we know. It's Biden's fault.
"Alberta just met the threshold of a "commitment" petition to trigger a referendum
IN ONE DAY"
"Canada is the ONLY Commonwealth country with a constitutional process for a province to secede peacefully? The 1998 Supreme Court ruling set the stage for provinces like Alberta to negotiate and achieve independence."
https://x.com/hashtag/AlbertaIndependence?src=hashtag_click
Alberta could be a US protectorate like Puerto Rico.
More about Canada's succession blueprint:
https://x.com/i/status/1917064894354174146
Is that a thing?! That sounds off to me.
The Contrast Effect. I'm not sure which way it goes in that case. There is a well-known Cheerleader Effect such that a less-attractive cheerleader will be judged as more attractive when surrounded by more-attractive cheerleaders.
Then again, this is all psych research, of which I'm very dubious. Maybe the whole group is drawn up or down to the mean?
"When my girl friend and I would get dressed to go out on the town, she would evaluate us and say, "Which one is the mushroom tonight?" She was always much happier when I was the mushroom."
I think that's more the idea of being the low-key one in contrast to the louder, flashier one. You can't both be topping each other or you start annoying people or embarrassing herself. You can't both be the life of the party. And notice that you aren't saying that the one who believes she is much better looking is deliberately choosing to hang out with the other. You're speaking of 2 friends who want to be together because you enjoy each other, not because one of you is conniving to do better at the other's expense.
Here's a bit of insight on the Canadian election result, with an analysis of demographics and destiny. Long read from John Carter's substack.
I still don't know if Bob Boyd was making a joke about dactylic hexameter!
Nobody in Canada is going to push for Annexation by the USA. Alberta will never leave Canada. And we can happy about that.
""Alberta just met the threshold of a "commitment" petition to trigger a referendum
IN ONE DAY""
Can you briefly explain, for those of us who don't have X?
The problem for Alberta, were the residents to vote to leave Canada for either independence or to join the United States, is the same one the South faced in 1860- the central government will change the rules to legally bar it and will shoot people if that doesn't stop the process.
"The problem for Alberta, were the residents to vote to leave Canada for either independence or to join the United States, is the same one the South faced in 1860- the central government will change the rules to legally bar it and will shoot people if that doesn't stop the process."
IDK, Quebec might not go along with that.
A problem with the idea of an Alberta joining the US is that the process would take so long AOC might well be President by then.
I will be watching the exchange rate between the CAD and USD with great interest.
Canada has the same issues we do.
snobby proggy coastal elites..
..and the working class who populate the middle.
the working class were F-ed over by Castro's mini me - Trudeau - during the Democratic Chi Com Gain of Function Fauci COVID F-over.
Did I ever tell you about the time I knocked a robin off a split-rail fence with a mudball at the archery range at Boy Scout camp back in ancient times? I packed a mudball onto the end of a broken arrow and whipped it at the unfortunate bird, who didn't die, but probably could have used a back rub after that. It was a miracle shot worthy of an epic poem, but I acted like I did that kind of thing every day.
Anyway...what was it you were wondering?
Chuckercanuck Alive Again stated that Carney is very impressive with a skill set unique on the global stage. And I'm sure he is, in that sort of international progressive way.
His first comment after the election is that he's going to put the focus of Net Zero into every decision the government makes. To me that makes him absolutely disappear into the ether of every other Euro and leftist leader we have today. Including those sitting in the dark in Spain and Portugal a day ago. Not sure how unique it makes him, but it does allow him to enter and leave a room without anyone noticing.
I will not be surprised by anything he does now. I have my own expectations, and so far he's meeting them.
In 1969 Pierre Trudeau said: "Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."
""Alberta just met the threshold of a "commitment" petition to trigger a referendum
IN ONE DAY""
OK, I'm guessing the point is that the number of people who voted for the conservative in this election is enough to trigger a referendum.
"They feel like they have been good neighbors "
Better than Mexico is a very low bar.
If they'll come and take Jim Carrey and David Frum back....
Canada elected Trudeau and the Liberals in 2015.
How did that work out for them? Canadian per capita GDP was unchanged from 2015 to 2024, while the US value increased by over 30%.
Before Trudeau, from 1995 to 2015, both the US and Canadian per capita GDP increased by an identical 35%.
Yet the Canuks just voted for more of the same stagnant Liberal policies.
Money talks. Alberta is only going to get more angry with Eastern Canada. Alberta becoming an independent country or US protectorate? Hardly out of the question.
Dear Temujin,
I agree - he is a globalist progressive and therefore could do little to earn my vote.
I didn't not hear his acceptance speech as my bedtime did not allow for it.
It is possible that he will put a Net Zero lens, either with real gusto or in a fake, virtue-signaling way. But his position, at the moment, is tenuous. He campaigned on reversing a decade of Trudeau government.
Had he promised more Trudeau government - - had he not adopted the Conservative platform for his own -- he would not be PM.
So, should he rip off his wolfskin to reveal a tax hoovering sheep, his popularity will plummet and his government with it.
I've read the first half of the John Carter piece (it is indeed long) that Hey Skippy and Aggie recommended and I agree it is well worth the read. He also wrote a very interesting post about why Canada should embrace it's identity as the Prussia of North America. Years ago, 51 to be exact, I bought a Saturday Review issue that was made up of predictions for the next 50 years. The one I remember is that Quebec would split off for independence and the Prairie provinces would join the U.S. I find it fascinating that there are hints that the prediction might come true.
I admit, I'm mystified why we should give a shit about Canada's elections. Could the new guy be any worse than the old one?
Jim at said: Could the new guy be any worse than the old one?
Yes. Keep in mind the sage advice of Hunter S. Thompson: "They can always hurt you more!"
Shorter version: Trump trolls. Canadians bite. Liberal destruction continues.
Trump trolled "Canada as the 51st state" to distract attention from other issues the press and his other enemies might have focused on. And it worked. They focused on that instead of other things that would've hurt Trump. The Canadian election is collateral damage.
Leland:
In response to “ So it is possible that Trump wanted another Liberal government [to] keep gooning things up so that Alberta would vote to secede — apparently an easy thing to do — and join the US.”
You said: “To be fair to Grok; that is essentially the analysis it provided. But then, Grok didn't think up that opinion but rather cobbled together various other opinions that supported Trump as genius argument, and Grok may read Substack.”
To be even more fair to Grock, I happen to subscribe to John Carter. I added to his analyses that it may well be there is no downside for Trump, and perhaps significant upside if the Liberals win.
I have no earthly idea of Grock’s “opinion” on the subject.
"Starting November 7, 2013, Canadarm2 was included on the back of the Canadian five dollar note."
That's sorta pathetic, no?
"They feel like they have been good neighbors and they've been betrayed."
Canada uses tariffs to limit imports, depends on US taxpayers to pay for their military protection, enables illegal entry into the US due to their own lax immigration policies and does a poor job of discouraging the movement of drugs through their ports on the way into the US.
And that's a "good neighbor"?
Reading some of John Carter's substack referenced above: Vancouver should join Washington State and let the rest of BC and Alberta join as one state, or join to Alaska.
Maybe Canadians are just intrinsically leftist and the liberals would have won no matter what Trump did or did not do as soon as Trudeau exited?
Some of the provinces of Canada were originally smaller than they are now (MB, ON, QC, NL) and got land from the federal government, which now claims that provinces would have to give back that land if they leave. That's a real obstacle for Quebec. Hardly anybody lives in those northern lands, but a lot of hydroelectric energy comes from up there. The western provinces don't have that problem but there are probably other ways that Ottawa could make breaking up hard to do.
Canada has what used to be called an inferiority complex. They're a credible country - still the second largest in the world in area - but in some part of their being Canadians fear that the reproaches made here and elsewhere are true. That's why they are so sensitive about Trump and annexation. They may have a point. If anybody's big enough to swallow anyone else up, BC would swallow up WA, the Prairie Provinces would devour Montana and the Dakotas, and ON would gobble up MI.
The fat girl acts as a cock-blocker.
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