Said the Solicitor General Elizabeth B. Prelogar, arguing against state law that restricts access to puberty blockers and hormones as a treatment for gender dysphoria. Full transcript here. Audio here.
I do want to acknowledge that there is evidence to suggest that gender-affirming care with respect to hormones can have some impacts on fertility. Critically, puberty blockers are -- are -- have no effect in and of themselves on fertility, so I don't think that concern can justify the ban on puberty blockers, which is just pressing pause on someone's endogenous puberty to give them more time to understand their identity. With respect to hormone use, there are some effects on fertility, but the court found that many individuals who are transgender remain fertile after taking these medications. They can conceive biological children.
There are fertility preservation measures that they can undertake and that they have to be counseled on those risks. And as I said before, I can understand that that could be a hard trade-off, but it's not unique to this care. There are other treatments for adolescents that likewise affect fertility, including some of those that [the Tennessee statute] expressly permits, like on intersex individuals, who often have surgeries as infants that might permanently affect their fertility. I would also say that if you are concerned about fertility, there are measures the State could undertake, like requiring warnings, more informed counseling, trying to ensure that there's informed consent in this area.
You also mentioned the possibility of regret. The record evidence demonstrates that the rates of regret are very low because, for the population that has access to this treatment, so these are adolescents who have marked and sustained gender dysphoria that has worsened with the onset of puberty, they are very likely to persist in their gender identity.
But, if you're thinking about this from the standpoint of there's no harm in just making them wait until they're adults, I think you have to recognize that the effect of denying this care is to -- to produce irreversible physical effects that are consistent with their birth sex because they have to go through puberty before they turn 18.
So, essentially, what this law is doing is saying we're going to make all adolescents in the State develop the physical secondary sex characteristics consistent with their gender or with their sex assigned at birth, even though that might significantly worsen gender dysphoria, increase the risk of suicide, and, I think critically, make it much harder to live and be accepted in their gender identity as an adult because, if you're requiring someone to undergo a male puberty and they develop an Adam's apple, that's going to be hard to reverse, and they're more likely to be identified as transgender and subject to discrimination and harassment as adults.
So I think the relevant question is you have this population of adolescents and there are documented, very essential benefits for a large number of them and maybe a small number that will regret this care just like with any other medical care, but for the State to come in and just say, across the board, you can't have the medication because of your birth sex, we don't think that's a tailored law.
ADDED: I was surprised at the prominence of the Adam's apple.
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94 comments:
Meanwhile, with the same parental permission, 15 year olds can marry an adult in a half dozen states (and under 18s marry in most states).
Sure, let that 15 year old girl marry a 21 year old man because her parents think its ok, but gosh dont let them take hormones.
The Green and Woke religion needs a lot more saints and martyrs. The end goal of sterilization and making reproduction uncool for the masses outweighs the...literal recreaction of Josef Mengele's methods...
Plus, they need to pay for their mortgages and car loans and school loans. Ain't gonna happen without keeping the funding stream going. Just ask the executives of Vanderbilt University.
What a monstrous idiot. It’s difficult to understand how a single person on this earth can endorse this butchery.
The vast majority of children asking their parents for a sex change do so with precisely the same erudition as Solicitor General Prelogar which goes a long way toward explaining how we've all come so far.
Everything that woman said is bullshit.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
I read a glowing profile about Prelogar but there was nothing in it about her being a doctor. I think she is dead wrong on many of the medical facts here. And what if she is wrong and fertility is destroyed for 80%? More importantly, every single person is important. Why allow some kids to completely destroy their lives based upon a passing fancy?
There’s one young woman who deeply regrets her experience in the sex change medical-industrial complex and is suing UNMC for millions.
Oh, and one of the lawyers for transing argued that children as young as two know if they are trans.
With hormones, irreversible body damage happens. That’s the difference. A person can always get divorced and escape a bad marriage because of a poor decision.
So much ipse dixit.
Age 15 bothers you for some reason? My how you inadvertantly reveal latent Northwestern European Christian Protestant morals! "What lens are you using to judge others?"
Do you know that the traditional and routine coming out dating/marriage age in for (Catholic) women in Latin America, known as the quinceañera, is 15? Do you know that humans lived only about 40 to 45 years on average before the invention of modern medicine just a couple hundred years ago? Dating and reproduction in modern society has become...difficult...largely because biological clocks and instincts and probabilities are delayed and denied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era
I won't pretend to have a deep understanding of the subject matter, but I do believe much of what she stated as fact is actually false.
What a ridiculous comparison. Great example of midwit lefty thinking.
I'm not so sure you thought that through.
"I think she is dead wrong on many of the medical facts here."
There is a serious problem with courts accepting "evidence" based on crap science and due to precedent continuing to rely on it even after the "science" is disproven.
A couple of cases that come to mind are bite mark evidence and I can't find a link but I recall an article about "expert witnesses" who claim to be able to tell you if someone is guilty just by the wording they use on a 911 call.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/bite-mark-analysis-no-basis-science-people-prison-rcna133870
What mindnumbrobot said. So its bad for a 15 year old to get married, but good to give them hormones and cut off their body parts?
I can't believe that Democrats feel like that have to keep pushing this issue. It's a perfect wedge for Republicans to use. It splits the Democrats, and unites Republicans. It's textbook.
She is prioritizing the population of people with a truly definitive sense of gender dysphoria, even going so far to distinguish those intersex individuals, which I presume is the physical aspect. She miserably fails to recognize or protect those vulnerable individuals who may not be dysphoric but have mental and emotional issues associated with immaturity who, when subjected to the onslaught of attention and empathy towards dysphoria that is now heaped on children, choose to garner that attention from the political movement.
My political bullshit detector wants me to mention I’d like the data she uses to arrive at the casual conclusions ‘many’ individuals remain fertile after the meds and ‘the rates of regret are very low’- and would a medical study measure ‘rate of regret’?
"Solicitor General Elizabeth B. Prelogar...fourth highest ranking individual in the United States Department of Justice...President Joe Biden sent her nomination to the U.S. Senate...first clerked for judge Merrick Garland ...then for U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg...finally for Supreme Court justice Elena Kagan...special counsel investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election..."
Wikipedia
I have little doubt that affirming care for the mentally ill delusional person makes them feel better. If little Frankie thinks he is a girl and all the adults around him are giving him drugs and calling him Penelope in support of the delusion, then of course that feels better.
Once sanity is restored, these treatments will be seen on a moral parity with the Tuskegee Study.
I’m concerned the individuals obsessed with the political movement completely ignore they are opening the door to bad actors with their own sexual/political agendas to grow a like-minded population and the population of college educated white women who will vigorously support and defend their agenda.
That this whole enterprise has reached the point where our Solicitor General makes these arguments and some of our Supreme Court Justices actually validate them is heartbreaking. Children have no capacity to understand the permanency of what they’re getting into, no matter how much you counsel them.
There is a serious problem with courts accepting "evidence" based on crap science and due to precedent continuing to rely on it even after the "science" is disproven.
All…Mighty…Decisis-isis-isis!!!
Young children are extremely susceptible to fads. This trans hysteria seems to be a fad. I suspect that the regret rates, even if historically low, are going to skyrocket in the next ten years.
Is she a doctor she has no such expertise
We need a more honest phrase than "gender-affirming"
Gender changing?
Gender altering?
Gender swapping?
Gender transforming?
puberty blockers are -- are -- have no effect in and of themselves on fertility
this isn't assuming evidence without fact.. this is A lie
here's a report from the NIH
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6626312/
Fertility concerns of the transgender patient
Suppression of puberty with gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist analogs (GnRHa) in the pediatric transgender patient can pause the maturation of germ cells, and thus, affect fertility potential.
It is recommended that clinicians counsel transgender patients on fertility preservation (FP) options prior to initiation of gender-affirming therapy.
Trust the Science! Trust the NIH!!
Trust the Government to tell You that the government is LYING
Correction: The vast majority of children asking their parents for a sex change do so with precisely the same erudation BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO YOUNG TO SPEAK THIS WAY BUT FED LANGUAGE BY Solicitor General Prelogar which goes a long way toward explaining how we've all GONE INSANE AND ARE DESTRYOING THE FUTURE GENERATION FOR PRIDE AND PROFIT.
now do 12 year olds Mark
So everyone agrees intersex people, born biologically with two sets of genitalia, should get surgery soon after birth. By comparison, a moody child or teen who feels they have the wrong body should be treated with considerable skepticism. I've locked myself in my room. I'm writing poetry, listening to Taylor Swift, and crying. Noone understands me.
Surely part of this is therapists and other caregivers having ideas about cures, and planting or encouraging ideas in the kids. This was done a few years ago with "recovering childhood memories of abuse."
17 yo in my state can’t even go to a tanning salon.
Everyone has a right to define reality to suit their sensibility under the Pro-Choice religion and Twilight faith in a liberal democracy. We should not only tolerate their choice, but celebrate it in parades.
Gender dissonance occurs when there is a mismatch between an individual's sex and preferred sex-correlated attributes.
Hormone imbalance is normal during puberty. What is the logic of artificially tinkering with it? My child may want to be a heroin addict when he grows up. Lets start him on some now and see if it helps settle him down.
The transgender thing is a misdirected consumer demand for a working Holodeck, where the consumer can try on identities in a full immersion 3D environment. Venture capitalists are pouring billions into startups to develop this technology. Everybody needs to wait a while and they’ll have what they want. Then, only psychos will try to find this experience outside the Holodeck appliance.
Yes, recovered memories through coaching, admissions of guilt with threats of prosecution, gender dissonance enhanced through popular influence and therapy, too. People oppose capital punishment with more evidence and support Capitol punishment on a whim. At least they can take comfort in that a "burden" has been relieved.
I have a lot of empathy for families going through this. What would I do? Get far away from social media, move my family to a beautiful rural area and be outdoors enjoying nature as much as possible. Homeschool, live off grid. Maybe it’s trying to run away from an internal problem that would still be there, maybe it’s defending against an external foe (our current social trends) and the dysphoria situation would eventually resolve. Time would tell.
So an attorney is now a qualified medical scientist giving unbiased testimony on efficacy and reversal success on hormone treatment? Gee, let's remember the number of women with ovarian cancer who underwent IVF hormonal treatment to stimulate their egg-producing follicles. Let's remember the number of women with breast cancer who underwent estrogen treatment for menopause. There's a history of discretionary hormonal treatments that caused a spike in cancers.
Puberty blockers "safe" is same as opinions of "Covid Vax "safe", neither statement actually proven to be true, and contrary to medical evidence that both treatments are poorly tested and probably unsafe long-term for significant number of people. Also note, trans medical treatment is a hugely profitable business model, selling drugs and surgery to vulnerable people, and worse, underage children and their gullible parents. Post-surgery trans people too frequently express remorse, if allowed to process their feelings and state their belatedly regrets.
Children can't buy cigarettes or alcohol, vote, join military, qualify for credit card or mortgage, run for political office, etc. Children are also vulnerable to group-think, prone to magical-thinking and unrealistic expectations, at risk for poor decisions, urge to conform to currently popular trends and model their behavior after their friends and role-models. Trans children in some states can now demand hormone treatment, surgical castration and reproductive organ removal, motivated by a transitory cultural trend that postulates your sex can be determined by yourself as opposed to fixed by genetics and physical body.
How can a prepubescent child, who has no sex related hormones yet have any clue about anything related to their sexual identity? They don't know what they are attracted to nor do they have the ability to. So much at high levels of our country is a circus.
So she's another political hack attorney. Clerking for Garland means she knows how to follow progressive-liberal edict regardless of law. Serving as special counsel on Russia Gate investigation means she knows how to obfuscate truth to create a partisan political diatribe. Not qualified to opine on medical safety nor worthiness of trans treatment of underage children.
It’s a delight to listen to Prelogar argue. Even when answering questions from the bench she speaks in clear sentences without the “ums” and pauses that mortals are prone too. I usually disagree with the positions she sdvocates, but that advocacy is her job — and she’s really, really good at it.
When my granddaughter was two she thought that she was a rabbit.
It is a talent to be able to speak clearly when you do not know that what you are saying is factually wrong.
Ann- Isn't it reasonable to expect a supreme justice with no knowledge of the subject of the arguments before the court to interview experts (pediatric endocrinologists) for some background? Some of the comments or questions by 2 of the justices indicated an utter lack of background on the subject.
Nice to see the town clown get piled on here. I'll just point out again the obvious: that girl can get out her marriage and start over. The "regret" from the headline of this post is permanent. That leftist cultists like Mark are willing to sacrifice children on the altar of political correct wokeness sickens me.
Mark, under the Solicitor General's argument, eight-year-old girls could decide that they want to be married. Is that the result that you're going for?
I don't think she believes anything she's arguing.
It's legal for a 15 year old to take hormones ... what do you think birth control pills are? Yes, it's legal for them to have sex too.
There are PLENTY of doctors who endorse this butchery. And they all need to be hung at Nuremberg, and I hope they will.
Yes because social media is also a contagion and an aggravating factor. Normal teen angst is a phase, just like toddler curiosity about what kind of toys the other kids are playing with, and given time confused or awkward teens eventually normalize and bloom into adulthood. The horribly intimate invasion of social media into the normal stages of development provide more harmful influences than positive ones. Social media is a social disease. Children are far less resistant to its nefarious influences.
Yep
If they can get the Supreme Court to agree with that proposition, then they can argue that 2 year olds are capable of sexual consent. Which is what they're after.
A question about the home influences, specifically the parents' mental state,
seems reasonable here.
Also, are the trans suicide rates known?
I suspect that the regret rates, even if historically low, are going to skyrocket in the next ten years.
I've read and heard that gender clinics do not typically follow up with their patients past the testosterone honeymoon period (testosterone being an antidepressant). "Regret rates" are unknown, not low.
Add to that the sunk-cost situation. Say you partially transition in your mid- to late teens. Once you've permanently lowered your voice, had top surgery that leaves you scarred and flat-chested, and will forever look "trans" even if you stop taking hormones, what's the point of expressing regret? Not only can you not do anything about your condition, but if you do express regret, you'll be ejected from the one community from which you're most likely to find a life partner.
I know this case only has to do with chemical transition, not surgical. But surely the court must consider that, whatever else their effects may be, "puberty blockers" virtually always lead to cross-hormone treatment, and cross-hormone treatment is the obvious gateway to irreversible surgical intervention. And - of course - no form of "gender-affirming care" changes the suicidality stats at all.
There are people who die of anorexia after years of treatment. I bring this up because it's another form of body dysmorpia, one which we don't treat by allowing the person to starve herself (at least not knowingly) so that her outsides can match her insides. It's also another case in which anyone on the outside can see that the person's perception of her outsides is seriously screwed up - she thinks she's fat when she's normal and will only be beautiful when she's skeletal, just as a trans person will believe she is convincingly masculine when she's not, or that he's a gorgeous woman when he's a caricature. Talk therapy is the only real - that is, not in itself disordered - treatment we have for these cases of disordered thinking and perception. And in the case of anorexia, it doesn't always work, so in the case of gender dysphoria we can expect the same. The minimum goal ought to be that the person does not die, but suicides will still happen, tragically. A greater goal is that the person learn to manage depression, and that also doesn't always work (and I'm pretty sure never works perfectly). These facts are not sufficient to say, "This same-sex attracted tween says she feels she should be a boy - hey ho! Let's go!"
The government should stay out of these decisions. This is a parents’ rights issue.
The government should stay out of these decisions. This is a parents’ rights issue.
The drugs they give for puberty blockers are used for cancer treatments. They have side effects, for some people, highly unpleasant. A child that goes under the knife will never bear children, will never have an orgasm. It's a Death Cult, full stop.
We've got two transgender young adults that I know of, in our conservative area. I know of them, because both work as check-out clerks, one at a supermarket. He's about 6'1" and not at all feminine (except for the makeup), and his line usually is very short, enough to where it's odd. I suppose the people in line don't notice until they get there. It's jarring, interacting with someone that is clearly not normal in almost every aspect of their persona, from appearance, to speech, to mannerism, etc. There's an element of 'in your face' that is nowhere close to bringing on the uncanny valley feeling.
We were in Boston last year and walked a little of the Freedom Trail, and it was noticeable how many of the people working as docents in the various historic buildings, were transgenders that were well along that transformational road to perdition. They were concentrated in these roles to make up at least a third of the help, I guess because of some unspoken arrangement that organized to put them there. It's more of the 'in-your-face' strategy, placing them in positions guaranteeing the maximum exposure to the public audience. The Bad Faith Ambassadors, we should call them.
But when I deal with my two local transgenders, I always just feel sad for them. They're never going to know what a normal life is, not because of some congenital condition, but because of their choices. And one always knows, deep down, that their choices have been formed to a substantial degree by the society around them, the terrible power it has to tempt with fads. They've been influenced to make these choices, and they're irrevocable, and now they're stuck. I dread it, but a few years from now I think there will be studies about suicide rates that damn the whole twisted, irresponsible industry.
When I was a kid, the medical establishment warned me against taking steroids. "Don't take steroids, don't take steroids." It will make you impotent, it will give you cancer.
I never took steroids.
Now, that same medical establishment is telling young girls, who haven't even hit puberty yet, that it's fine to take steroids. It's no problem at all. They're handing out steroids like they are M&Ms.
It's a massive lie, of course that you can turn a girl into a man. And it's just so weird to discourage boys from wanting to be strong men, while you encourage girls to become men. But beyond the lies and the weirdness, I wish our medical establishment would give us some basic truths on the dangers of human beings taking steroids.
"The government should stay out of these decisions. This is a parents’ rights issue."
Right, and if parents decide their five-year-old children should have sex with their 40-year-old truck driver neighbor, that's also a parents' rights issue that the government should stay out of.
" I don't think that concern can justify the ban on puberty blockers, which is just pressing pause on someone's endogenous puberty to give them more time to understand their identity. "
I couldn't read any more after that. Just press pause, as if a child's developing body is some sort of video game.
Disgusting ignorance and arrogance on display. We need to protect children from people like this.
I wonder how prevalent gender dysphoria was before this "remedy" existed.
Gender hacking.
It's like saying parents have the right to pay a doctor to stab their babies. No, they really don't. Parents don't have the rights to do whatever they want to their children. And this isn't just a "family decision." Like the abortion industry, this so-called "right" is co-opting medical practice, which is definitely regulated by the government. Doctors should not be in the business of castrating young children and fucking up lives. Indeed, doctors should not be doing harmful surgeries on patients when there is nothing wrong with their bodies. If dysmorphia is a mental disease -- and it is -- treat the mental illness. Doctors would know all this if they hadn't tossed out the Hippocratic Oath decades ago, to open up a new medical practice of terminating unwanted pregnancies.
Doctors should fight against mass psychosis, not open up a shingle and start charging big bucks to profit off it.
Puberty blockers have a use in pediatric medicine, for example when puberty starts waaaaay too early for some reason, and needs to be delayed so bones can reach a fuller growth size. Is use for gender dysphoria treatment FDA approved, or is this another example of allowed-under-law alternate uses for the drugs, without testing for side effects or negative outcomes?
are we using terms correctly? rights or responsibility of parents?
I remember, when I was in my 20s in law school, how everybody liked the result in Griswold v. Connecticut, even if we mocked the reasoning of the opinion. That's because we were all in our 20s, and everybody loved birth control.
What didn't occur to us then was the utter stupidity of arguing that the government cannot regulate the pharmaceutical industry. The birth control pill had just come out a few years before the opinion. And while people loved the pill, we had very little medical evidence about the safety of the pill.
The early birth control pills were loaded with estrogen. And estrogen is one of the key factors in breast cancer. (That's why women are far more likely to get breast cancer than men). A decade or two after Griswold, we saw a massive spike in breast cancer in American women.
I'm not a doctor, and I can't prove that these two things are related. But I do know that our pharmaceutical companies have greatly reduced the amount of estrogen in birth control pills. Why did they feel the need to do that?
Biden's Solicitor General said...
But, if you're thinking about this from the standpoint of there's no harm in just making them wait until they're adults, I think you have to recognize that the effect of denying this care is to -- to produce irreversible physical effects that are consistent with their birth sex because they have to go through puberty before they turn 18.
The Hippocratic Oath says "Do No Harm." The primary mandate is not to intervene to prevent every possible harm, but first to avoid causing harm to the patient through your treatment.
I went to the audio transcript, and, the first thing I heard was the Solicitor General referred to as "General Prelogar." I was under the impression that the terms "Attorney General," and "Solicitor General" meant that those individuals were, respectively attorney and solicitor in "General Matters," not a rank. How did this misunderstanding come about?
I would also say that if you are concerned about fertility, there are measures the State could undertake, like requiring warnings, more informed counseling, trying to ensure that there's informed consent in this area.
These laws have already existed, because minors cannot make their own informed decisions. The new law was created because corrupt counselors didn't appropriately provide informed counseling of the risks. Instead, they lied to the patients and told the parents their child would likely commit suicide if they didn't approve. (we can't talk about how California has gone further, because this case is about Tennessee).
What really amazes me about this argument is remembering Alan Turing and the movie of his life "The Imitation Game". The movie went beyond Turing's professional success and covered the government forced transition that he was made to undergo because he was gay. I would think that would be enough to cause pause to people pushing this through with some vague notion that it is good for a patient, particularly a patient too young to know. Alas, the left really wants to make this common.
As Gilbar notes, Justice Jackson's questions would be useful for lowering that age much lower than 15. You really haven't thought through your argument. If SCOTUS were to uphold Tennessee's ban, it would be precedent for overturning laws that you, Mark, claim to be abhorrent in allowing 15 years old to marry.
Getting married isn't irreversible, you evil moron.
Taking puberty blockers, contra EP's lies, IS
Critically, puberty blockers are -- are -- have no effect in and of themselves on fertility, so I don't think that concern can justify the ban on puberty blockers, which is just pressing pause on someone's endogenous puberty
But, if you're thinking about this from the standpoint of there's no harm in just making them wait until they're adults, I think you have to recognize that the effect of denying this care is to -- to produce irreversible physical effects that are consistent with their birth sex because they have to go through puberty before they turn 18.
She just proved that she's a liar.
Puberty is about having certain changes to your body at certain ages. if you dont' have them then, you NEVER get the same effect.
Which is why they want to delay them.
"Sure, let that 15 year old girl marry a 21 year old man because her parents think its ok, but gosh dont let them take hormones."
Well, at least those parents show SOME sort of sensibility, unlike those transing their children.
And marriage is reversible.
I've always thought it will be closer to the way we view how some women received hysterectomies to treat hysteria or melancholy.
I have a genuine question for you. Do you think parents should be able to treat their child for problems with their sexual orientation or urges by providing them with conversion therapy?
I hope someone addresses the thousand fold increase in gender dysphoric teens that seems to suggest social contagion.
Prelogar's glibness is a menace. Watch out flor this one. Transgenderism is built on the absurd foundation that it is possible to know what it feels like to be a sex other than one's own. I cannot know what it feels like to be anyone other than myself. I can draw inferences, I can empathize, I can guess. TG surgeries are crazy for adults, and mega crazy for minors.
"Critically, puberty blockers are -- are -- have no effect in and of themselves on fertility,". Yeah, and a bullet to the head, in and of itself, won't stop your heart, either. What a lying whore!
Lizzie Borden Prelogar said...
"...the ban on puberty blockers, which is just pressing pause on someone's endogenous puberty..."
This clause buried in the middle of her first paragraph is the crux of the issue. And it is false. And the remainder of her six paragraphs of logorrhea is there just to obscure this baldly incorrect falsehood. It's just noise filling empty air, like a magician waving one hand around while the other one discreetly palms the coin he is going to make disappear.
To slightly paraphrase Vincent Gambini, Esq, "everything that she just said is bullshit."
"They can conceive biological children"
In other words, despite all attempts of "persons assigned female at birth" to become males, they immutably remain female, because being able to conceive and bear children is THE very definition of "female."
https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/12/04/fact-checking-claims-gender-affirming-care-pivotal-supreme-court-case/
Endocrinologists—doctors who specialize in the hormone-regulating endocrine system—have testified to the harms these drugs can cause. Dr. Paul Hruz, an endocrinology researcher and clinician at Washington University School of Medicine, wrote that after “an extended period of pubertal suppression,” patients can’t “turn back the clock” and “reverse changes in the normal coordinated pattern of adolescent psychological development and puberty.”
Some things - the more you rail against them, the longer they last. The trans craze among pre-teens is evil because it involves body mods - irreversible and regrettable. Hate to say it, but a lot of this is on you, gay community and your cool 'born this way' meme.
The courtroom discussions about the costs versus benefits of puberty therapy may be interesting, but the government's primary argument is that Tennessee's restrictions constitute sexual discrimination and are thus illegal under the 14th amendment and that is one Hell of a reach.
All one has to do is read the reports out of Britain. There is one institution that evaluated sexual dystopia and did the sex change procedures for decades. Seems some of the professionals finally decided "Hey guys lets share our notes." They found that the procedures had no impact on suicide rates and most of the patients came to conclusion with regrets they were just gay. The psychiatrist notes seem to indicate that most of the patient's mothers were borderline Munchausen syndrome.
Prelogar's "argument" sorta crosses the line into testimony for her client. Is what she said really in evidence? I will give her credit for being slick, but she is slick in a bad kind of way - would not trust her in any good meaning of trust.
And I am surprised that one of the justices did not call her on it. (but I have not read the entire transcript and likely won't)
"And I am surprised that one of the justices did not call her on it."
"Alito did"
"“I wonder if you would like to stand by the statement in your position or if you think it would now be appropriate to modify that and withdraw your statement,” Alito said.
"puberty blockers, which is just pressing pause on someone's endogenous puberty to give them more time to understand their identity. "
Just..
Lobotomies is the correct analogy. Both cause irreparable harm to the victim, who is often defenseless, in the TN case because they are children. The state has an interest in stopping this. Note, however, that many states -- CA, NY, IL, MA, etc. -- will use the fact that the Constitution is ruled to be silent on this to allow it back to the moment of birth.
Transhausen by proxy is the correct term for many of these parents. Just today, Annette Bening said "To have a transgender child has made me so much more interesting."
Even if what you said had anything relevant to the case or even reality,
16 year olds are not 2 year olds.
Ummm... we saw what Merick Garland tried to do about "parent's rights..."
But parents are not allowed to make decisions about their children's education...
Got it.
It’s difficult to understand
sorry, but it's EASY to understand.. There is good money (well, LOTS of money) in child mutilation
here in Iowa, a parent is NOT allowed to get their minor children tattoos..
you Know why, because they permanently alter your body.
But Space City "Girl" thinks moms should be able to lop off their son's dicks, and their daughter's breasts; because: according to Space City "Girl", it's the "parent's right"
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